Episode 400: We Mark A Milestone with Kate Spencer
It’s the 400th (!!) full length episode of Forever35!
To celebrate, we brought Kate Spencer, beloved former host and author, back to the pod! The ladies chit chat about what Kate has termed “pep-talk journaling,” what it’s like raising teens today, how pickleball is going, and allll the book and Costco recs your heart desires.
Mentioned in this Episode
How I Stopped Mouth Breathing and Finally Got Some Sleep | The Strategist
Ice Planet Barbarians
Connect with Kate
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Transcript
The following transcript is AI generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:18):
And I'm Elise Hu and we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Doree Shafrir (00:22):
And today is a very special episode.
Elise Hu (00:25):
It's officially the 400th full length episode of Forever 35.
Doree Shafrir (00:32):
Wow.
Elise Hu (00:33):
There are more than 400 in total. It's probably more like 700 something in total
Doree Shafrir (00:37):
Because
Elise Hu (00:38):
There are mini apps.
Doree Shafrir (00:39):
They're mini apps.
Elise Hu (00:40):
But as for the Monday full length episodes, this is episode number 400 and we are also going to stop numbering them from here on out. We
Doree Shafrir (00:49):
Are. Because we
Elise Hu (00:50):
Have gotten advice that it is sort of gatekeepy to have the numbers
Doree Shafrir (00:56):
On here
Elise Hu (00:57):
Because it could make-
Doree Shafrir (00:59):
It seems overwhelming.
Elise Hu (01:00):
New listeners feel overwhelmed. So welcome in if you are new. We are going to have fresh episodes on the main feed every Monday going forward and we're collapsing the episodes formally known as mini apps that were on Wednesday. We're collapsing those into Monday apps that are going to appear every other Monday. So we're going to be with you weekly now on Mondays and then additionally on our Patreon on Fridays with a casual chat for those of you who want to join the Patreon. But happy 400th, Dor,
Doree Shafrir (01:31):
You've been here. Happy 400th. I have been here. I have been here. For the
Elise Hu (01:34):
Whole time.
Doree Shafrir (01:36):
The whole
Elise Hu (01:36):
Time. Are you feeling whisple? Are there any standout memories from this journey?
Doree Shafrir (01:43):
Well, it's really hard for me to wrap my head around how many episodes, which I guess is why we're not numbering them anymore. It's even hard for me to wrap my head around it. Yeah. I mean, in a way it's like, oh, I've been doing this, this podcast has been part of my life for the past eight years. It just feels like this is my life now, but I sort of look back on where things were when we started and it's like so much has changed.
Elise Hu (02:13):
Because you started in person, right?
Doree Shafrir (02:15):
We started in person. We would record at either Kate's house or my house. Sammy would come. Sammy lived in LA still. Sammy would come and engineer the recording.
Elise Hu (02:27):
Oh my gosh.
Doree Shafrir (02:28):
We had all this equipment.
Elise Hu (02:29):
How did you find Samee, both Sammy's? What's the story?
Doree Shafrir (02:34):
Samee Junio we found through a woman that used to work with Matt, but she referred us to Sami and I remember I was still working at Buzzfeed and our office at the time was at a sound stage essentially on sunset and there was a coffee shop on the street level. And I had Kate and Samee meet me there because I was working. So I just went downstairs and met them for coffee. And I remember Samee came in on their scooter, their Vespa or something and was in a leather jacket. We were like, "Samee's so cool." Oh yeah. I don't know. Samee might be too cool for us.
Elise Hu (03:25):
They still are.
Doree Shafrir (03:26):
They still are too cool. They still are. Yes. The rest is history. And then during COVID we started recording remotely. I mean, we used to do our guests in person too.
Elise Hu (03:40):
Totally different era.
Doree Shafrir (03:41):
It was different. People had to be in LA. Sometimes we would coordinate with people when they were making a stop on their tour, but I feel like it really skewed heavily towards people who lived in LA. So doing it remotely really opened up our guest capabilities.
Elise Hu (03:59):
Right.
Doree Shafrir (04:01):
And then when lockdown sort of ended, we were like, "Well, it's so much easier to just do it remotely." And it's sort of funny now, now that people are doing video podcasts, the in- person recording has kind of come back because people are doing it in studios. But yeah, that's just a different thing.
Elise Hu (04:24):
Everything old is new again.
Doree Shafrir (04:25):
Everything old is new again. I mean, those of us who have been in the digital media space for a long time, such as myself, I mean, this is now like the fourth- 15th. Pivot to video. Pivot
Elise Hu (04:36):
To video. Every time there was a pivot to video. Well, now looking back, it seems like it was driven by some platform. There was a pivot to video driven by Facebook. Now there's a pivot to video for another monetary reason. It's because YouTube wants it or Spotify wants it. And so I don't know. I mean, I started it in video. I started in television, I like it anyway, but I find all of these platforms to be money grubbing and not worthy of my trust. So we will see. We will see what happens.
Doree Shafrir (05:13):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (05:14):
Either way, every time there's a pivot to video, because I spend this time being skeptical about it and then I probably miss out on those early rush, that flood of money that comes in at the very beginning before things bottom out.
Doree Shafrir (05:27):
No, for sure. I mean, me too. I'm always like, "Well, this won't
Elise Hu (05:32):
Last." Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (05:34):
So anyway, it's been a wild journey, but for the 400th episode, we decided it would be fun to bring back the one and only Kate Horse Spencer.
Elise Hu (05:47):
Kate Horse Spencer.
Doree Shafrir (05:49):
That's what we said. Is that her
Elise Hu (05:49):
Middle name?
Doree Shafrir (05:50):
No.
Elise Hu (05:51):
I like it. I mean, I have a living middle daughter whose middle name is Rock,
Doree Shafrir (05:56):
It's cool. There you go. Yeah, because we had Kate on when her last book was coming out, but we hadn't really had her back on for just a chitchat. So it was really fun to get to catch up with her and get her in front of a microphone again.
Elise Hu (06:15):
She figured it out. She was like, "Oh, I speak here."
Doree Shafrir (06:18):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (06:18):
She's got it.
Doree Shafrir (06:20):
I think people have been listening to the pod for a while will enjoy the conversation. If you haven't listened to the pod for a while, I think you will also enjoy the conversation. So yeah, it was a good time. But what's new with you, Elise?
Elise Hu (06:33):
Well, on the topic of Kate Spencer actually, we went to Independent Bookstore Day, which was last Saturday as of this recording. So it would be a week from this past Saturday for those of you all hearing this episode. And on Indie Bookstore Day, I went to a new indie bookstore in my neighborhood on the west side of LA called Good Girl Books.
Doree Shafrir (06:56):
Their TikTok was served to me and so I followed a bit of their building out of their store. So it's exciting to hear that they're open.
Elise Hu (07:05):
Yeah, they were open and I took Ava, my eldest daughter, in order to find some books and we get in there and along the backside of the cash wrap, they had local authors. They did featured books from local authors and so they had some of our favorites here at Forever 35. They had Alyssa Sussman. They had Lisa C.
Doree Shafrir (07:28):
Cool.
Elise Hu (07:28):
They had Stuart Gibbs who writes all those YA and children's books. He's like in Marina and at the very end Ava picks up a book and she was like, "Oh, this is clearly enemies to lovers." And then she reads the back of it and it's like, oh, and then one steamy night turns into two turns into more and she's like super into it and it turns out it was one last summer by the one and only Kate Spencer.
Doree Shafrir (07:59):
Kate Horse Spencer. Kate
Elise Hu (08:01):
Horse Spencer and Ava didn't know that we were connected and that we were friends and any of this, but she wanted the book and then she also got hand sold to other Enemies to Lovers books by the booksellers there who really knew their stuff because Ava has a very specific subgenre she's into. It's Enemies to Lovers with Murder.
Doree Shafrir (08:24):
Okay. Okay Ava.
Elise Hu (08:28):
So she was sold an Enemies to Lovers Ghost Tale because
Doree Shafrir (08:33):
The
Elise Hu (08:33):
Bookstellers
Doree Shafrir (08:34):
Were like- So funny.
Elise Hu (08:35):
There was a murder. That's how one of them wound up as a ghost.
Doree Shafrir (08:39):
Oh my God.
Elise Hu (08:41):
She's like, okay.
Doree Shafrir (08:42):
That's so funny. Okay.
Elise Hu (08:45):
So I'm getting some bits and bobs of the one last summer story told to me in the car on the way to school in the mornings.
Doree Shafrir (08:53):
Oh my gosh. I love that. Okay.
Elise Hu (08:56):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (08:56):
So fun. I'll have to go check out that store. I'm excited.
Elise Hu (09:00):
Yes. When you're out on this side of town,
Doree Shafrir (09:02):
Perhaps
Elise Hu (09:03):
Before the Lena Dunham event coming up.
Doree Shafrir (09:05):
Oh yes.
Elise Hu (09:05):
Yes, you could stop and pick up some books.
Doree Shafrir (09:08):
Very excited about that. If you two are going to the LA Lena Dunham event, let us know. All right. Well, we are going to get to our dear friend Kate. I mean, Kate really needs no introduction. Nope. She used to host this podcast. She's written so many great books. Enemies to lovers
Elise Hu (09:32):
Books.
Doree Shafrir (09:34):
Yes. Great. Some great enemies to lovers books. Before we get to her, just a reminder that our voicemail number is 781-591-0390. You can email us at forever35podcast@gmail.com. We are still going to be doing what used to be called mini episodes. We haven't landed on a great name for those yet, but we will. But we will be doing these sort of mailbag episodes. So keep the questions coming. 781-591-0390, Forever35podcast@gmail.com. Our website is forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we and our guests mention on the show. Our Instagram is @Forever35 podcast and our Patreon is patreon.com/forever35. At the free level, you get our semi-monthly newsletter, which is super fun. And then for $5 a month, you also get our casual chat, which is now on video. Those are weekly. We do live casual chats every quarter. You have access to our little community chat in the Patreon app.
(10:36):
And then at $10 a month, you also get ad free episodes and a shout out on the podcast each and every month. So we will be right back with Kate.
Elise Hu (10:47):
We'll be right back.
Doree Shafrir (10:55):
Well, well, well. Look who we have here.
Kate Spencer (11:01):
Look what the cat dragged in. Literally the cat. I'm the cat.
Doree Shafrir (11:05):
You're the cat.
Kate Spencer (11:07):
I dragged myself in.
Doree Shafrir (11:09):
You dragged yourself in.
Kate Spencer (11:11):
Hello, Doree. Hello, Elise.
Doree Shafrir (11:12):
Hi. Hello. It's so nice to see you.
Elise Hu (11:16):
We invited you back because it is a huge anniversary. Do you know this, Kate?
Kate Spencer (11:22):
I do because Sami Reed, a project manager extraordinaire of the pod, in the headline to the email that Sami sent to me, it said 400th episode. And I was like, how and what? And then I thought back in time to 2018. That's a long time.
Doree Shafrir (11:44):
A lot has changed.
Kate Spencer (11:45):
The whole world.
Doree Shafrir (11:47):
The whole world has changed.
Kate Spencer (11:48):
It's wild. Yeah. The president
Elise Hu (11:50):
Is the same as it was
Kate Spencer (11:51):
Though. Yeah. And for that, I want to crawl into my bed and never come out, but I'm happy to be here.
Doree Shafrir (12:01):
Yes. So we were like, who would be a more fitting guest for our 400th episode than- What and only Kate Spencer.
Kate Spencer (12:09):
Yeah. Oprah or me. And I appreciate that Oprah couldn't do it.
Elise Hu (12:14):
Yeah. She had a conflict. She
Doree Shafrir (12:16):
Did. So here you are. Actually between us, we turned her down.
Kate Spencer (12:19):
You did. I knew it.
Doree Shafrir (12:21):
Yeah. She really wanted to come on and we were like, sorry. She was begging. Oprah. We have Kate Spencer available. Kate's fun. She
Kate Spencer (12:29):
Was offering ...
Doree Shafrir (12:30):
Yeah, you're going to have to wait for the 401st episode.
Kate Spencer (12:35):
Well, I'm very happy to be here.
Doree Shafrir (12:37):
So Kate, we always ask our guests about a self-care practice that they have. You might have even come up with this question.
Kate Spencer (12:45):
No idea.
Doree Shafrir (12:46):
But I feel like you have had a lot of self-care practices over the years and I'm wondering if there is something that you are doing right now that maybe is new since you were last on.
Kate Spencer (13:00):
I actually have a new practice that I have been doing for about a month.
(13:07):
And the name I have given it is my pep talk journal and it's kind of a combination of a few things, but it is a small notebook that I keep on my bedside table and every night I write kind of a checklist of what I want to do in the morning so that when I wake up, I have a plan. And right now it's like, get up, get your coffee, take your meds, get dressed, like eat some protein and then go write. I've been waking up and writing at six in the morning or I wake up at 5:30 and I write at six.
(13:47):
So this gives me ... If I don't see exactly what I'm supposed to be doing, it all goes out the window. So this is kind of like my roadmap for the morning, but then I also include some positive self-talk because I just really struggle with negative self-talk and negative self-thought. And if you have listened to me on this podcast in the past, that might sound familiar. Fun fact, it hasn't changed, but this has been like a nice ... I kind of write myself a positive message. I don't know, something cheerful or like, "You've got this, " or I find a quote. And then oftentimes when I've completed the thing, I'll just write a little note after about how it went. I bought so many journals and I was looking for a use for this little tiny one and I had never seen ... I know people keep notepads on their side of their bed or write a morning to- do list, but I've never seen a journal where you just talk positively to yourself as well.
(14:51):
So that's what I've been doing and it's actually really been successful. I really like it. I look forward to writing it at night. I look forward to seeing it in the morning and it does remind me to go do those things because if I don't have a visual reminder right in front of me, the notebook has to stay open. If the notebook was closed on my bedside table, even if I had written all this, it would be useless. So that's a current self-care practice that I have really enjoyed.
Elise Hu (15:20):
This reminds me, have you ever sung along to the Snoop Dogg affirmation song?
Kate Spencer (15:26):
I've never even heard of such a
Elise Hu (15:27):
Thing. Oh, girl, it's so good. It's so good. It's for kids, but
(15:33):
It applies well to adults and I will do it every once in a while, especially if I'm in a mid-afternoon slump and I feel completely unmotivated to continue on with the day. Snoop Dogg has a song called, I think it's called The Affirmation Song. Yeah. And it came out a few years ago, but he essentially says, "My feelings matter," and then you repeat it, "My feelings matter." And then it's like, I get better every single day and then you repeat him, you just follow along with the song and it's like, "I choose to feel happy. My family loves me so much." I need this. And it's so fun. It's Snoop Dogg, and then you just sing along to him. It's so much fun. I love that. I
Kate Spencer (16:16):
Think that kind of practice of just reminding yourself of your self worth is valuable at any age. I love that that is intended for kids, but also- It's so great. I wish I had had that when I was five. Maybe I wouldn't be here today, but I think that sounds delightful.
Elise Hu (16:35):
You just fake it till you make it. And so I'm just like, great, my feelings matter.
Kate Spencer (16:39):
They do and they do matter.
Elise Hu (16:43):
It's great. So anyway, we'll put it in our
Kate Spencer (16:45):
Show notes. Send me the link.
Elise Hu (16:46):
Will do. Will do. What is it like raising teens right now? Are both your kids teens now?
Kate Spencer (16:54):
They are.
Elise Hu (16:55):
Yeah. I wanted to hear all about this and how those years are going.
Kate Spencer (16:59):
It is actually very fulfilling. I mean, you're raising teens.
Elise Hu (17:04):
Yeah, I don't like it at all.
Kate Spencer (17:05):
It's really hard. It's really hard, but I also find it really rewarding in a way that feels like a first for me as a parent. I don't know. I really do enjoy it and I like their friends and I try to stress that I'm there to support them, but not also not getting their way. We listen to, it's like nonstop Tame Impala and ASAP Rocky and I like both those artists, but it's like I'll be in the car bopping to the Grateful Dead and then one of them gets in the front seat and it's just like we're back in the Tame Impala
Doree Shafrir (17:49):
Cycle. Can I just sidebar about Tame Impala for a
Kate Spencer (17:53):
Moment? Please do. Great. I want to go here.
Doree Shafrir (17:56):
Okay. Because they were popular like 15 years ago.
Elise Hu (18:01):
It's all coming around. It's
Kate Spencer (18:02):
All coming back.
Doree Shafrir (18:03):
And all of a sudden they're like super popular and I'm like, "What is happening?"
Elise Hu (18:10):
Do you remember when Stranger Things premiered and all of a sudden all these 80s songs were back too? It was
Doree Shafrir (18:16):
Wild. But what happened? Was it TikTok? I was assuming
Kate Spencer (18:20):
TikTok. Yeah.
Elise Hu (18:21):
Yeah. Okay. It was a TikTok song.
Doree Shafrir (18:22):
All right. Thank you. Thank you for clearing that up.
Kate Spencer (18:25):
What's so interesting is that my kids still don't have TikTok, but it doesn't matter.
Elise Hu (18:31):
Right. It doesn't matter. They're influenced by it because it's in the culture. Yeah.
Kate Spencer (18:33):
Yeah. The online culture disseminates very quickly. So yeah, they are Tame Impalaing and ASAPing. Good time. Those are the main. Don Tolliver is a new person I keep hearing about. I
Elise Hu (18:49):
Don't know.
Doree Shafrir (18:50):
Another person who's been around for
Kate Spencer (18:52):
Don Toliver. I've never
Elise Hu (18:53):
Heard of Don Tolver. Don Toliver. Don
Kate Spencer (18:56):
Oliver. The British comedian.
Doree Shafrir (18:59):
No, Don Toliver has been around for a minute.
Kate Spencer (19:05):
I've never heard of this person. Again, I listen to mostly Jambayon still, but ...
Doree Shafrir (19:10):
Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess I'm looking him up now. He's been around for, it says years active 2015 to present. It's not like he got famous six months ago. Which 30 and 40 year olds are breaking through to the youth? I'm curious and why.
Kate Spencer (19:27):
I have a very vivid memory of when I saw Wayne's World in the movie theaters and heard Bohemian Rhapsody for the first time in my life and
Doree Shafrir (19:35):
Thought
Kate Spencer (19:35):
I had discovered it was like life changing, learning about Queen and then suddenly I was like blasting that song over ... There's always that moment where somehow you have missed something until the moment you haven't and you're like 10 years, 15, 20 years late, but it's still so good.
Elise Hu (19:53):
Yeah. And how beautiful to get to witness them discovering something, even if it's super old. It's like, "Oh, look at you enjoying this.
Kate Spencer (20:00):
" Yes. And I try to keep my mouth shut because it's not that I don't enjoy their music, but I just remember my parents commenting like, "Man, what is this? "
Elise Hu (20:10):
So
Kate Spencer (20:11):
I just try to pop along and find the songs I enjoy and ... Yeah,
Elise Hu (20:16):
But you don't want to enjoy it too much because then you seem cringe because I really like a lot of teen culture. Me too. The new Ace Rocky album's amazing. But I don't want to be like Amy Polar in Mean Girls, which I think I always run the risk of anyway, because they all think that I'm too youthful into youth culture. So anyway, it's hard. It's hard. But Kate, will you want to update us on you and update the listeners on what you've been doing, what you're excited about?
Kate Spencer (20:47):
Well, I've taken two watercolor painting classes through my local parks and recreation department and I love it. That has been really satisfying.
Elise Hu (20:56):
Have you made new friends, like cross-generational friends in these
Kate Spencer (21:00):
Class? A little bit. Yeah, kind of. It's so delightful. There are people, mostly everybody is older than me.
Doree Shafrir (21:07):
Love that.
Kate Spencer (21:08):
I love it. It's been really rewarding. Also just like I enjoy of ... I've never done a visual art before and I find it very soothing and I like doing a class because it is structured. I've never once painted at my house by myself, but I like going to the class and being told what to do. I do like meeting members of my community who aren't in the 30 to 50 range with children at the same schools as mine. I have been writing. I've been working on some writing projects. I'm working on three things I'm excited about kind of simultaneously, but they're all very rough draft, early morning messes, but that's also been really rewarding.
Elise Hu (21:57):
I'm sure. Yeah. Is your older one going to be looking at colleges already soon or no?
Kate Spencer (22:03):
I would say my oldest is a freshman, finishing freshman year. Oh, so your time. Okay. Okay. We have time, but it's definitely something she thinks about, especially because she's on the track team and so she's friendly with all a lot of these seniors and they're going to school. And so that's been kind of cool just for her to know these older kids who have been very kind to her and her freshman friends. I feel like the teens get a bad rap, but I do feel like the teens are also great. The teens are also doing okay.
Doree Shafrir (22:35):
How is pickleball?
Kate Spencer (22:38):
Okay, girl. I need major structure. Again, I don't have it in me to just go to the pickleball open play at my local courts and
Doree Shafrir (22:46):
Put my pad on. I mean, that's also intimidating. I've seen those pickleball open play situations as I bop over to the tennis court and I'm like, I don't think I would ... I don't know. It does feel intimidating.
Kate Spencer (22:59):
It does. It feels like a lot for me. And so I haven't done that, but I did play in a lady's ladder league.
Doree Shafrir (23:09):
Oh, cool.
Kate Spencer (23:10):
Singles or doubles? Well, doubles. Most pickleball, like recreational pickleball is doubles. That was very intimidating for me. So I'm trying to push myself out of my comfort zone here as I head towards 47 years old.
Doree Shafrir (23:24):
Okay. Kate, you are wearing a lovely red lip. I
Kate Spencer (23:30):
Thought I would spice it up today.
Doree Shafrir (23:32):
I love that for you and for us. Could you tell us about this lippy?
Kate Spencer (23:37):
Lippy?
Doree Shafrir (23:38):
Yeah,
Kate Spencer (23:39):
Lippy. Oh boy. Lippy. Okay. It's by Merit and it is called Vermilion Signature Lip I cannot see. My eyes are ... There we go. Signature lip. Vermillion. It's kind of an orangey red and I quite like it. A matte orangey red.
Doree Shafrir (23:59):
I like it too. That's really nice.
Kate Spencer (24:02):
I am going to go get my kids after this. I wouldn't normally bust this out for a pickup, but for like a going out lip or a Zoom lip or a podcast recording lip. Great. I like this. It's a very nice color. Shout out to Merritt. I use a lot of their products and I quite like them.
Doree Shafrir (24:19):
So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.
Elise Hu (24:30):
Kate, I wanted to ask you because recently you were in New York Magazine's The Strategist with a big picture of you and your CPAP machine. So tell us about your sleep journey.
Kate Spencer (24:46):
Okay. Well, may I first just say I posted a photo of myself in bed with my full accoutrement on and just made some snippy comment about like, what is it like to not go to bed like this? I can't remember exactly what I said and I posted it to my Instagram stories and then someone at the strategist reached out and was like, "Hey, we saw this. Would you want to break down your sleep practices?" And I didn't realize it would essentially be a verbatim ... I thought they would maybe just make a list. I don't know. So they really posted verbatim our 30 minute conversation. And as you know, I hyper fixate and get really passionate about ... I feel very passionate about my sleep stuff. I am just rambling in that conversation. I was excited to do it, but also I was a little bit mortified that I had no sensor.
(25:44):
But yes, I will tell you, I was diagnosed with sleep apnea a year and a half ago and I have a CPAP machine that I love. As I explained in that interview, this is all covered by my insurance, which is very fortunate because those CPAP machines are expensive. So I just want to add that caveat that this shit is expensive. So I wear a CPAP on my nose. I had one that covered my mouth. That was too much for me. First, I put a sleep on it on from Kitch. Then I put my headstrap on to hold my chin up so that my mouth doesn't fall open while I sleep. Also, I've put my retainer in then. It's so hot. My husband- You're really
Elise Hu (26:33):
Painting a picture.
Kate Spencer (26:34):
Oh my God. He's next to me like can't wait to pounce. You know what I'm saying? It's so attractive. I put my CPAP mask on. Then I put my eye mask over it and then sometimes I'll put my sleep headphones on, which I feel like I found about from Doree because Matt was wearing them at some point. The headbands. Yeah, the
Doree Shafrir (26:57):
Headband. Yeah. They didn't really take for him, but I'm glad they work for you.
Kate Spencer (27:03):
I bought those to go on a three-day backpacking trip in the Sierra Nevadas because I knew I couldn't sleep without white noise. This is what a monster I've become. I would charge my phone. I had downloaded white noise or brown noise, my preference, and then I would blast that on this camping trip and those headphones. But anyway, sometimes I wear those and listen to a meditation. Then I put on brown noise on my lofty sleep clock. I do my gratitude journal and my one line a day journal and then I snuggle on in. And I also have a leg pillow, my baby blanket. I have a warmy, which is like a heating stuffed animal. I mean, it's so much. It's a lot. I realize
Elise Hu (27:51):
This. Yeah, that's a lot of gear. This is a lot of gear to sleep.
Kate Spencer (27:54):
Yeah. You know how some people are gearheads for cycling?
Elise Hu (27:57):
Yes.
Kate Spencer (27:58):
Yes. I'm like asleep gear head. Gearhead.
Doree Shafrir (28:03):
I feel like for a long time you had some sleep struggles.
Kate Spencer (28:08):
The sleep apnea diagnosis and the CPAP machine has changed my life. I mean, because I'm breathing and I'm not stopping breathing at night and I'm sleeping. I feel more rested. I'm sleeping better. I'm also on a variety of hormones, which is helping the perimenopause sleep issues that I have. But yes, no, I was waking up tired and with a headache every morning and I would sleep, even if I slept for like eight hours, I would feel exhausted. You weren't
Doree Shafrir (28:41):
Getting good sleep.
Kate Spencer (28:42):
No. So that has been-
Doree Shafrir (28:44):
That's amazing.
Kate Spencer (28:46):
That has been really exciting.
Elise Hu (28:48):
I'm glad you brought up an alarm clock too because in a recent listener question somebody actually asked, "Do you have any alarm clock recommendations?" And it sounds like your brown noise clock from Lofty also serves an alarm as an alarm clock if you want.
Kate Spencer (29:05):
It is an alarm clock.
Elise Hu (29:06):
Okay.
Kate Spencer (29:08):
I have tried so many of these smart clocks. I've tried Hatch,
(29:14):
Which I liked, but it felt like almost too many bells and whistles and I couldn't quite figure out how to use it. And I think this lofty clock is a similar thing where you could put a meditation on your clock. I'm not doing that. I'm more just, it works, the alarms are calming, it's not my phone and it plays brown noise, which is what I like to listen to when I sleep. And it plays other things as well. God, you could do white noise or pink noise or whatever, but yeah, it gets the job done.
Elise Hu (29:46):
Yeah. Great. And you mentioned, at least in this strategist piece as you were recording a stream of consciousness or recording stream of consciousness for the reporter, you mentioned that you actually had sleep troubles way younger, right? When did they first start for you?
Kate Spencer (30:04):
Well, I have an anxiety disorder and that when I was having what I didn't really understand what was happening, but I was having either anxiety attacks or panic attacks
Doree Shafrir (30:15):
And
Kate Spencer (30:16):
I would be up with this panicked insomnia all night. I'd have to sleep on the floor. I couldn't sleep in my bed so I would make a bed on the floor and something about that would help me settle my nervous system. I do still from time to time have insomnia and I just wake up and go sit on the couch and look at my phone,
Doree Shafrir (30:37):
Let's be
Kate Spencer (30:37):
Honest. Sometimes I will read, but let's be real. But yeah, I have struggled with sleep, falling asleep. A lot of it I think is just calming the brain in many ways, which again is probably going to be just a lifelong journey.
Elise Hu (30:57):
Well, it sounds like all of the gear has helped. So good.
Kate Spencer (31:01):
It's helped. You know what I also hate to say has helped is meditation does help. When I meditate, I feel better and that annoys me, but it's true.
Elise Hu (31:10):
Dan Harris, thanks you because you're 10% happier.
Kate Spencer (31:14):
I don't know if I'm happier, but it does get
Doree Shafrir (31:18):
Crazy.
Kate Spencer (31:18):
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But I do feel slightly better. Enough that I notice and that's also interesting to me.
Doree Shafrir (31:27):
Great. Kate. One thing that you were really into right before you stopped doing the pod was the Ice Planet Barbarian series of books.
Kate Spencer (31:41):
I loved them.
Doree Shafrir (31:42):
What are you into now? What are you reading? Has anything come close to the glory that was the Ice Planet Barbarian?
Kate Spencer (31:52):
No. Well, because that author has ... Ruby Dixon is prolific and has written so many and so many iterations of this amazing world. So I've read like 50 books adjacent to the Ice Planet Barbarian world. I really did enjoy the entire Rachel Reed Game Changers series. And then I also read her two standalone hockey romances and I loved those two. In fact, one of those takes was my favorite, I think, of all of her books. So I blasted through those and I mostly listened to them on audiobook and that was wonderful.
Elise Hu (32:32):
I just started on audiobook, Lena Dunham's new.
Kate Spencer (32:36):
That's what I'm listening to.
Elise Hu (32:37):
It's great because she reads it. It's great. Yes. It's great. And she has such an interesting perspective over the last 10 years. Yes. Only Lena Dunham was in Lena Dunham's shoes and Lena Dunham's body. And so to hear her articulate that has been very enjoyable actually to listen to.
Kate Spencer (32:56):
I have been on kind of an audiobook memoir Terror.
Elise Hu (33:00):
What else do you like?
Kate Spencer (33:01):
Well, I listened to Strangers by Bell Burden.
Elise Hu (33:04):
I listened to that as well. I thought it was very well done.
Kate Spencer (33:06):
I also thought it was really well done. I tend to kind of just see what is available. That I think I bought, but I just go to Libby and I look up celebrity memoirs and just to have somebody chatting in my ear that's not a political podcaster. There's just something soothing about a famous person talking about stuff that isn't too high stakes that I find to just kind of settle me a little bit.
Doree Shafrir (33:35):
Well, it's high stakes for her.
Kate Spencer (33:37):
For Bell Burton. Yes. And I should say both of the ... Lena Dunham is dealing with her. There's a lot of stuff done. Health assault. I mean, they're not light and fluffy, but I do. I tend to kind of ... I'll try to listen to a historical nonfiction book about how did the Vietnam War start? And it's too hard. I haven't done that. So what else am I reading right now? I've been posting ... You know what? I've been putting book links up on a bookshop page that I throw up in my newsletter because I'm kind of just trying to read. I've been on a little bit of a dip this last month, but I have been reading a lot more and listening to a lot more audiobooks. So I've been trying to share that in my newsletter because I'm trying to just keep it
Elise Hu (34:36):
... Well, I need to hit you up for some suggestions too, because I am guest editing downtime, which is a substat newsletter. Yes. Okay. And I'm putting together, I guess we're just going to share now. I'm putting together a list of beach read recommendations that aren't necessarily beach reads. So I'll follow up after this conversation because would love for you to pitch into.
Kate Spencer (35:00):
You know what also I have been doing is reading what my daughter is reading in school.
Elise Hu (35:05):
Oh, what are they reading?
Kate Spencer (35:06):
What
Elise Hu (35:06):
Do they
Kate Spencer (35:06):
Have
Elise Hu (35:07):
Going on?
Kate Spencer (35:08):
This year she read The Outsiders and Animal Farm. I hadn't read either of those books and they were so good.
Doree Shafrir (35:17):
They're so good.
Elise Hu (35:18):
Yeah.
Kate Spencer (35:18):
So good. And then you know what book I read that I thought was so good? It's a debut. It's called Swift River and the author is Essie Chambers. And it's a heavy book. It deals with a lot of hard stuff, but it was so beautifully written. The prose was just like ... I just loved it. I felt like swept up into it immediately. I really enjoyed that book. So that might be a good bee treat. It's not light and fluffy, but it was engrossing and just beautifully written. It was really moving.
Elise Hu (35:54):
I think you've captured the prompt.
Kate Spencer (35:56):
There we go.
Elise Hu (35:56):
Okay. I love it. Not necessarily light and fluffy, but engrossing and enjoyable. Yeah. I
Kate Spencer (36:02):
Loved that book too. And those are some of my recent wrecks.
Elise Hu (36:05):
Okay.
Doree Shafrir (36:06):
Kate, what about Costco Rex? Is there anything at Costco right now?
Kate Spencer (36:12):
Y'all, can I tell you something? I got invited to an influencer event at a Costco.
Doree Shafrir (36:18):
What?
Kate Spencer (36:20):
I don't get any influencer stuff anymore since I don't podcast anymore. I rarely get any sort of like, "Do you want to try this thing out or whatever?" But I think this company has maybe familiar with the fact that I love Costco. Amazing. An event with a-
Doree Shafrir (36:40):
What?
Kate Spencer (36:41):
I know. So I'm going to that I think in May. What am I loving at Costco right now?
Elise Hu (36:46):
This is the time of year when they have a lot of outdoor stuff too, like patio furniture and coolers. All
Kate Spencer (36:51):
Stuff I don't need but shouldn't buy plants.
Elise Hu (36:55):
Giant
Kate Spencer (36:56):
Plants.
Elise Hu (36:56):
Yep.
Kate Spencer (36:57):
Oh, fuck, man. I was like,
Elise Hu (36:59):
I want more plants. I need some more lavender and then I'm going to kill it.
Kate Spencer (37:03):
No, I did the same thing. I can't buy that stuff, but I will say I have recently switched my coffee beans.
Elise Hu (37:09):
Oh, to
Kate Spencer (37:10):
What? Pete's. Pete's? Pete's coffee? Yeah.
Elise Hu (37:15):
P-E-E-T?
Kate Spencer (37:15):
I sell it at Costco. I think it's like Major Dickinson. I don't know. Major, hold on. Yep. Major Dickinson's whole beans. Great.That's my coffee choice. My current bean choice at Costco. I'm trying to think of what else. You mean they have those chocolate covered mushrooms. I'm forgetting the name of. I believe they're Japanese.
Doree Shafrir (37:40):
Yes. They're not actual mappes. Yeah. Cookie cracker kind of mustard. They're cookies. Oh my
Kate Spencer (37:46):
God. Hold on. I just have to find the correct name because-
Doree Shafrir (37:48):
Choco shrimp rooms. Chocolate rooms. Yeah. Matt likes those. Oh
Kate Spencer (37:52):
My gosh. Maji chocolate rooms. You can buy those at Costco and that's my favorite. Yes. And you buy them in bulk, but they're the little snack pack size and that is my favorite sweet treat.
Elise Hu (38:04):
That's a good one.
Doree Shafrir (38:05):
Matt, Kate just recommended the chocolate rooms. I like the chocolate pan does more.
Elise Hu (38:11):
Oh yeah. Chocolate pandas. It's also like a Korean or Japanese snack. I can't remember. But yeah, pandas on the outside. The cookie is on the outside and then the chocolate or the strawberry filling is on the inside.
Kate Spencer (38:24):
Ooh, that sounds good.
Elise Hu (38:25):
Yeah, that's a big hit in the hue house.
Kate Spencer (38:28):
Someone, have either of you tried the Kirkland brand Tonkatsu ramen broth?
Elise Hu (38:34):
Yes. Very good.
Kate Spencer (38:35):
Is it good? Okay. I was watching a video about this the other day and I was like,
Elise Hu (38:39):
"Gosh," and the simptempura. The frozen shrimp tempura is very good. You can put it in your air admire.
Doree Shafrir (38:44):
I love the shrimp tempura.
Kate Spencer (38:46):
Really?
Doree Shafrir (38:47):
Okay. Yes. I'll tell you what else. It's great to eat as tempura, but it is also great to eat as a shrimp taco. Oh,
Kate Spencer (38:55):
That's perfect. Oh, that's a great idea.
Elise Hu (38:57):
It's
Doree Shafrir (38:58):
So good in a shrimp taco. Yeah, pu
Elise Hu (39:00):
Little slaw in there.
Doree Shafrir (39:01):
Put a little slaw, a little tortilla. It's really good. That's a great idea. That's good hack. That's good half. I like that. Okay. So they used to have in the prepared food section, they had shrimp tempura tacos. Really? Yes. Now they just have chicken, but they used to have shrimp tempura and I would get those all the time because they were so good and then they just stopped offering them. But then I started getting the big box of shrimp tempura and making them myself.
Kate Spencer (39:31):
Yep. That sounds really good. I might try that. That sounds deliciou
Elise Hu (39:34):
I wish I didn't get a counter depth fridge because there's regular depth fridges and then counter depth so it doesn't jut out into your kitchen so much. I don't have a large kitchen and so I got a counter depth fridge, but that means I have almost no space in my freezer.
Kate Spencer (39:53):
I'm in the same boat as an ongoing struggle with a freezer. Yep. Wouldn't you let ... Sometimes I watch videos of these people who have these massive ass fridge
Elise Hu (40:03):
Situations. Yeah. Everyone I grew up with in Texas, we all had two fridges because you had your garage fridge.
Kate Spencer (40:09):
Yes.
Elise Hu (40:09):
Or your garage fridge and garage freezer.
Kate Spencer (40:12):
Oh, my mother-in-law has a deep
Doree Shafrir (40:15):
Freezer. I am desperate for a chest freezer.
Kate Spencer (40:19):
Yes. I thought about get it. I don't know where it would go, but I did have this thought of like, if I got that and then I could just meal prep a bunch of things and freeze my little heart out. You could
Elise Hu (40:30):
Start brothing even. You'd be like an
Kate Spencer (40:36):
Eroan.That is a place I've been to I think two to three times in my life.
Elise Hu (40:39):
Same. Same. But lots of brothers cost very
Kate Spencer (40:42):
Expensive. It's so expensive. But you know what? The times I've gotten food at Airo on, it's all been really good.
Elise Hu (40:47):
I know. Their prepared foods are excellent. Yeah.
Kate Spencer (40:49):
It was
Elise Hu (40:50):
Annoying. Except do you want to pay your mortgage or do you want
Kate Spencer (40:53):
To have how much that shit costs? Well, Kate,
Elise Hu (40:58):
This is a really great note to end on because I feel like you have offered us so many wrecks across so many categories.
Kate Spencer (41:05):
It's fun to get to talk. It's fun to get to yap about this stuff because I haven't-
Elise Hu (41:09):
You're welcome to come yet. You haven't yet
Doree Shafrir (41:11):
About
Elise Hu (41:11):
It.
Kate Spencer (41:12):
It doesn't have a while.
Elise Hu (41:13):
It does not have to be an anniversary.
Kate Spencer (41:15):
Okay. Okay, great. Well, I did leave a voicemail because I got the newsletter for the pod. And I was very excited. And then I did listen to the episode in which you played it and I had a good chuckle. Whatever Doree suggested. I
Doree Shafrir (41:29):
Said longtime host, first time college.
Kate Spencer (41:33):
That was so smart and I was like, "God damn it, Doree. Of course you know a good play on words." Well, this is a pleasure.
Doree Shafrir (41:42):
This was a delight. Thank you, Kate. Now I always have to ask, where can our listeners find you?
Kate Spencer (41:48):
My general hub, katespencerwrights.com. You can find all my basic info there and then I am updating my newsletter regularly about once a month. I'm going to be talking more about my journaling and a morning ritual that I have, which is also new. I'll save that for my newsletter. So I kind of try to send it out once a month, book recs, rambling the huge. And then I am in my Instagram stories. My Instagram grid is just a nine photo grid now. I've kind of-
Elise Hu (42:20):
Yeah, you cleaned it up.
Kate Spencer (42:22):
I cleaned it up. I hired someone who was lovely and just helped me make a grid so that I don't feel stressed about posting to the grid, but I'm in those stories. So you can always find me on Instagram and my DMs, you can always send me a DM. Kate,
Elise Hu (42:34):
Thank
Doree Shafrir (42:34):
You,
Elise Hu (42:35):
Thank you.
Doree Shafrir (42:35):
Thank you, Kate. This was so fun.
Kate Spencer (42:37):
Thank you guys. Love you both.
Doree Shafrir (42:43):
Well, that was fun to get to talk to Kate.
Elise Hu (42:46):
Standing invitation too. She can
Doree Shafrir (42:47):
Join us
Elise Hu (42:48):
Anytime.
Doree Shafrir (42:49):
Come back anytime. All right. Here we are in the intention zone.
Elise Hu (42:54):
What was your intention?
Doree Shafrir (42:56):
My intention last week was a kind of post-trip reset.
Elise Hu (43:00):
Oh, yes.
Doree Shafrir (43:02):
I feel like I'm still in the midst of it, but I'm definitely resetting for sure. Taking care of some stuff all of a sudden the summer is upon us.
(43:16):
I'm trying to figure out what we're doing, what Henry's doing, all that. I'm suddenly like, "Oh, the year is over." So I don't know. That's kind of like my this week thing, figure out the summer. We'll go to Boston at some point and I have our tickets there, but I don't have our tickets home because I haven't figured out exactly when we're going to come back. And Henry likes to know the plan so he keeps asking me like, "When are we coming back?" And I'm like, "I don't know. " And he's like, "That's very stressful for him." So I'm like, "Okay, I got to figure that out. "
Elise Hu (43:58):
He won't be stuck in Boston interminably-
Doree Shafrir (44:00):
He will not.
Elise Hu (44:01):
... indefinitely or anything like that.
Doree Shafrir (44:03):
He definitely, he will not be. He will not be. What about you?
Elise Hu (44:07):
I committed to re-upping the strength training. I have gotten in one class,
Doree Shafrir (44:13):
One
Elise Hu (44:13):
Reformer class, so better than the week before, but a lot's been going on here. And then I finally had my appointment, which I forgot to update you
Doree Shafrir (44:22):
On. How'd it go? To look at
Elise Hu (44:23):
My lump. Well, it turns out she thinks on sonogram, this is with a different breast surgeon. She's like, "I think your two lumps are actually connected because there was one that's a cyst and the other is a papillam and they're all in the same milk duct that goes up that would have fed my kids. So right behind my nip.
Doree Shafrir (44:39):
Oh, interesting. Okay. And so she's like,
Elise Hu (44:40):
" If I went in there, I'd just cut them both out because why not? If I'm going to open you up, I'd just get them both out. "She's like, " They're tiny. They're the size of a pencil. One's the size of a pencil eraser. One's the size of the tip of a pen. They're small. But she's like, let's just munch them out. "And there's two methods to do it. There's one that insurance covers and there's one that insurance doesn't. And obviously the one that insurance doesn't is the one that's fancier, less invasive, is just local. They just numb it locally. You don't have to go under general anesthesia. But then my parents were like, I called my mom to consult and she was like, " Wait, but you'd have to pay out of pocket? "She's like, " Don't do the one that's out of pocket.
(45:20):
What
Doree Shafrir (45:20):
Are you
Elise Hu (45:20):
Talking about?
Doree Shafrir (45:21):
"She's like, " Absolutely not.
Elise Hu (45:23):
"Yes, absolutely not. And I was like, " Well, Oscar has cost way more than this, but I didn't bring that up. I did not actually bring that up because I feel like that would be even more upsetting to my frugal mother. So my intention is going to be just to line up more appointments because now I have to get an MRI to see a fuller picture. I haven't gotten one and people recommend that and then I have to get my annual eye exam. So I'm kind of like you after a trip, just having to get some logistical things out of the way. So I guess my intention is going to be to adult,
Doree Shafrir (46:02):
Book
Elise Hu (46:02):
Those appointments, be an adult.
Doree Shafrir (46:04):
Be an adult.
Elise Hu (46:05):
Pay my parking ticket.
Doree Shafrir (46:07):
Be an adult. Okay.
Elise Hu (46:09):
Putting it out there.
Doree Shafrir (46:10):
Great. I love that. So this is what we thank our Patreon supporters with the $10 level and above. If you would also like a personal thank you once a month, subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/forever35. And in the meantime, thank you so much to the following supporters, Eileen Downing, LM, Alvin, Ariel C, Laura Ciccone, Sarah Liska, Felicia Justice Byro, Jasmine DeJesus, Christie, Caitlin H, Katie, Ashley Taylor, Theresa Anderson, Nicole Gass, Maya, Barbara C, Amy, Amy Schnitzer, Megan, Shelly Lee, Sarah Buzi, Alison Cohen, Melissa McClain, Jackie Leventhal, Fran, Kelsey Wolf Donne, Laura Eddie, Jettel Apte, Valerie Bruno, Julie Daniel, E. Jackson, Alicia Katherine Burke, Amy Maseko, Liz Rain, JDK, Hannah M, Julia P, Maddie O'Day, Marissa, Sarah Bell, Maria Diana, ST Coco Bean, Laura Haddon, Josie H, Nikki Bosser, Juliana Duff, Chelsea Torres, Tiffany G., Stephanie Germana, Olivia Fahey, Elizabeth A, Christine Bassis, Jessica Gayle, Zulima Lundy, Carolyn Rodriguez, Carrie Golds, and T.
(47:30):
Catherine Ellingson, Kara Brugman, Sarah H, Sarah Egan, Jess Combin, Jennifer Olson, Jennifer HS, Eliza Gibson, Jillian Bowman, Brianne Macy, Elizabeth Holland, Karen Perrelman, Katie Jordan, Sarah M, Kate M, Josie Alquist, Tara Todd, Elizabeth Cleary and Monica. Thank you so much. We are so grateful. Thank you. Thank you. Yay.
Elise Hu (47:51):
And
Doree Shafrir (47:51):
Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir, Elise Hu and produced and edited by Samee Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partners Acast. Thanks everyone.
Elise Hu (48:01):
See you later.
Doree Shafrir (48:02):
Bye.