Episode 399: Joyspotting with Alex Elle
New York Times bestselling author (and highly-requested guest!) Alex Elle joins the show to ask how we are playing a role in other people’s lives, setting expectations for what we need from others, and what friendship means at midlife. They discuss her new book, The Company We Keep: Friendship, Connection, and Redefining What It Means to Grow Together, her quick form of journaling, and deepening her understanding of what it means to hold grief and gratitude together.
Mentioned in this Episode
The Company We Keep: Friendship, Connection, and Redefining What It Means to Grow Together by Alexandra Elle
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Transcript
The following transcript is AI generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:16):
And I'm Elise Hu, and we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Doree Shafrir (00:21):
And today we have Alex Elle on the show who is a really, really interesting person and I think so insightful about so many things that I care about and that our listeners care about.
Elise Hu (00:37):
Yeah. She came highly requested by listeners. So we did a call out on our Patreon for who we should have on Forever 35. And somebody's like, "You need to have on Alex Elle." And then other folks I think chimed in. You all probably know her because over the last, I think from the pandemic and on, she's been very well known on Instagram and other places for her books and her writing and her thoughts about how to get introspective, how to heal ourselves, the work that we need to do kind of at the soul level. And she's out with a new book, which we're going to talk about later in the show.
Doree Shafrir (01:14):
But in the meantime,
Elise Hu (01:17):
Here
Doree Shafrir (01:17):
We are. As this is airing, I am still at Disney World.
Elise Hu (01:22):
Oh yeah. In your UV protective clothing.
Doree Shafrir (01:26):
In my UV protective clothing, I will post some pictures of my Disney World Fits.
Elise Hu (01:35):
Great.
Doree Shafrir (01:38):
It has been suggested that I become a influencer.
Elise Hu (01:42):
Oh yeah, I could see that. I could see that.
Doree Shafrir (01:44):
I'm ready for this journey for me. I did just go to my dermatologist. Oh, I haven't even talked about this because you were at TED, and so I feel like there was a week of things that happened. We just have not discussed. One of which is that I went to my dermatologist and he was like, "Your skin looks great."
Alex Elle (02:02):
Great.
Doree Shafrir (02:02):
And I was like, "Great." Because there's skin cancer in my family, so I have to be very vigilant, which is also part of the reason why I do ... I kind of joke about it, but I do take the sun care stuff very seriously, not just because of sun damage and wrinkles, but because of actual skin cancer. So to get a clean bill of health from my dermatologist every year is like ... I am very pleased by that. That's great. But I also told him that I wear a mask when I play tennis and he was delighted by this news. So clean bill of health from the dermatologist and continuing to be fully covered up. I will also ... I mentioned this, I think on the casual chat, that I bought another pair of my favorite legging tennis skirt combo. We will link to it in the show notes.
(02:58):
It is from a brand called Lucky in Love that makes tennis clothing, I think pretty much exclusively. And they have these leggings ... They call them skeggings, which is the worst portmanteau of all time. Yeah.
Elise Hu (03:16):
Appealing.
Doree Shafrir (03:17):
It does not sound appealing. But what I like about them is that unlike some other brands that make these, they make them to keep warm. So the leggings are quite thick, whereas this brand makes them for sun protection. So the leggings are actually very thin. You would not want to wear the leggings without the skirt covering your butt, but that's good because they're not too thick.
Elise Hu (03:44):
Yeah. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (03:45):
You know what I'm saying?
Elise Hu (03:46):
Yeah. It's like a cross between tights and leggings. Yes,
Doree Shafrir (03:50):
Exactly. Exactly.
Elise Hu (03:52):
You should consider, or at least just start putting some stuff out consistently on Instagram about Suncare, and then maybe brands will come to you.
Doree Shafrir (04:00):
Yes. I was just thinking about this. I've been so bad about social media lately. I don't know if it's just like-
Elise Hu (04:11):
You don't care about it as much. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (04:13):
It's like I
Elise Hu (04:13):
Have this fatigue
Doree Shafrir (04:14):
About it.
Elise Hu (04:15):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (04:15):
I feel like you're really good about it though.
Elise Hu (04:17):
I kind of got more into it. I have waves.
(04:22):
I got more into it when my book was about to come out and I had to do it and it put me into a place where I was more consistent on Instagram because I never really did Instagram that much back when Twitter was around because I hung out on Twitter and then Twitter kind of ended around 2022, just before my book came out actually. Or it became the hellscape that it is now. I honestly don't know what it looks like. And so then I had to be more intentional about Instagram and then I started making TikToks for the first time and I kind of just liked it that I did different things on each and I found TikTok to be fun because it's so experimental and it's not really your friends, it's just randos and that was cool.
(05:06):
But then I have periods where I'm just like burned out and I'm like, "I don't really want to keep up with it. " But lately, now that I kind of got back from that Instagram influencer tennis camp, which is such a string of words that I just put together there. But now I'm sort of like, okay, I kind of know how to just feed the beast a little bit. If I'm out of town, I'll put something up about the trip. I try to just to mark the place, even if it's St. Louis for a volleyball tournament. And then if there's kind of fun stuff going on or there's friends that I can hype or celebrate, I try to hype my friends and then people will ask. Our friend Marissa Renee Lee, for example, I'll just shout her out. She has an event in Dallas coming up and she was like, "Hey, will you let folks know about this?
(06:00):
" And we were like, "Great, of course we will let people know about it. " Also,
Doree Shafrir (06:03):
She is in conversation with Dr. Lizzie Cleary, who has been on the show and was like an OG Forever 35 listener, has been a longtime supporter of the show. We love Lizzie. She's great. So I love that the two of them are in conversation. I don't know. There's just like a lovely Forever 35 connection there. So maybe some listeners will go.
Elise Hu (06:23):
Yeah. So I mean, if there's something that you care about enough to post about, for sure. It's skincare.
Doree Shafrir (06:31):
Skincare.
Elise Hu (06:32):
Or suncare. Suncare.
Doree Shafrir (06:34):
No, exactly.
Elise Hu (06:36):
Maybe this will be
Doree Shafrir (06:37):
My hard launch as a suncare influencer. Yeah.
Elise Hu (06:41):
Oh, speaking of things that we need to announce, we are sure that we are going to once weekly episodes of Forever 35. So starting May 4th, we are going to go to once weekly episodes that will come out on Mondays and we will alternate between our standard Monday episodes that you know and love, which are Doree and Elise catchups followed by a great interview. And then on the off weeks, every other week, we're going to have full length listener feedback and mailbag. And that's what is featured in our current mini episodes, but the mini episodes will get expanded to full length and we're going to hear from you. We're going to hear your voicemails. We're going to hear your text messages, your emails, and then your recommendations, except we'll just get to do it for a longer amount of time. So Forever35 is going to go weekly.
(07:33):
It's going to be on Mondays where you expect us anyway, and we will still do casual chats that are available to our Patreon subscribers every Friday.
Doree Shafrir (07:43):
It's very exciting. So keep your voicemails and texts and emails coming. And as a reminder, you can send those to us at forever35podcast@gmail.com or 781-591-0390. You can also visit our website, forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned on the show. We are also on Instagram @forever35podcast. Our Patreon is at patreon.com/forever35. So if you still want to hear us more than once a week, you can head over to Patreon, support us at the $5 level and you get access to our weekly casual chat, which is not going anywhere. It is also now on video. We also are doing live casual chats with our Patreon supporters every three months or so. We have a community chat on the Patreon app, a lot more. And at $10 a month, you also get ad free episodes and a shout out on the podcast each and every month.
(08:39):
And you can shop our favorite products at shopmy.us/forever35. Elise, do you want to introduce Alex?
Elise Hu (08:45):
Yes. Alex Elle is a New York Times bestselling author, wellness educator and restorative writing teacher with more than a decade of experience. Her latest book is called The Company We Keep: Friendship, Connection, and Redefining What It Means to Grow Together. Her writing journey began as a personal therapeutic practice that has evolved into a career centered on healing through journaling, self-study and mindfulness. Through her books, workshops, courses, and retreats, Alex helps others cultivate self-discovery and expand their capacity for joy, clarity, and meaningful connection. So all things that we love here at Forever 35. Her work is grounded in the belief that literature and language service powerful tools for both personal and collective healing.
Doree Shafrir (09:26):
We are going to take a short break and we'll be right back with Alex. Alex Elle, welcome to Forever 35. We're so happy to have you.
Alex Elle (09:43):
Hey, guys. Thank you for having me with you today. I'm excited to dive in and chat all things the company I keep.
Doree Shafrir (09:52):
Yes. Well, we always start off by asking our guests the same question, which is, what is a self-care practice that you have?
Alex Elle (10:04):
There's a few, but recently it has been hot Pilates. I'm a reformer Pilates girl and have been for about a year. I'm actually getting my 500 hour teacher training certificates to be a teacher, but I was anti-Matt for a long time. And then I took a class and fell in love and I still love the reformer, but that's sweat with a hot class. There is nothing like it.
Elise Hu (10:31):
I'm not into it. I don't like hot ... I don't like hot yoga or hot Pilates. I go every once in a while just to sweat stuff out, but ooh boy. Good. And that's making you feel kind of refreshed afterwards and makes your body feel good?
Alex Elle (10:45):
It's making me feel really grounded and clear. I got diagnosed with ADHD when I was 34. I'll be 37 this year. And so being on the mat and being on the reformer, I have to really pay attention. So it helps me truly listen so I don't hurt myself or hurt my body and be in the room. There's no phone, there's no none of that. And so it really helps me feel like, okay, I have this 50 minutes for just me. No kids saying mama, nobody needing anything from me, no emails. So yeah, it's definitely a clarifier.
Elise Hu (11:19):
Good. Okay. Well, Alex, you come highly requested by our listeners. And so before, I think you've just guided and helped so many folks who maybe you'll never get to meet, but you've helped them in their own wellness practices and in their own introspections. So before we get into the new book, as somebody that we turn to for practicing gratitude, how have you changed or expanded your own gratitude practice in the time you've spent teaching it to others?
Alex Elle (11:57):
That's a great question. I think lately, especially over the past couple of years, I've really been leaning into what it means to hold grief and gratitude together and what it means to not just be grateful because we hear that so much growing up, like you should just be grateful, right? You should just take what you're given and be grateful. And that's not how life works. That's not how my life works. And over the past couple of years, I've had a lot of changes happen and I have had to find the glimmers of joy to touch gratitude while I have been grieving, grieving the different versions of myself, grieving relationships falling apart, grieving the life I thought I wanted to have, the woman I thought I would be, and understanding that I'm still allowed to touch joy and to be grateful and to have gratitude wrap itself around me while I'm in these moments of stickiness and maybe pain and hurt and confusion.
(13:03):
And for me personally, I think that gratitude can only be experienced if we're willing to keep the door open to it.
Doree Shafrir (13:14):
Your book is called The Company We Keep: Friendship Connection and Redefining What It Means to Grow Together. And your book is out in a couple of weeks, which is very exciting. Congratulations. Thank
Alex Elle (13:27):
You.
Doree Shafrir (13:27):
But I'd love to know what is so important about the company we keep? Why did you name your book, The Company We Keep?
Alex Elle (13:35):
Well, funny story. So initially the book was going to be called The Winning Circle and- Oh,
Doree Shafrir (13:41):
Wow. That's a very
Alex Elle (13:43):
Different
Doree Shafrir (13:43):
Title.
Alex Elle (13:44):
It's a very different title. And now that I look back at it, I was like, "That was not the title." In an opening paragraph of an essay, I had written, "The company we keep is important, da da da, whatever I said." And me and my partner were reading through it and he was like, "That's the name of the book." And I said, "What? The company we keep?" And he was like, "Yes." I was like, "I was thinking the same thing." So we changed it. Growing up, we hear so much too about watch the company you keep, be mindful of who you keep around you. And a lot of times it's from a place of scarcity and kind of negativity versus this lean in to be like, "Ooh, let me take inventory of not only the company I'm keeping, but the type of company I am to other people.
(14:30):
And what does friendship mean? What do relationships mean? And how am I being present in those and holding myself accountable in those?" So the company we keep isn't just about who we're keeping around us. It's like, who are we around other people? How are we adding to other people's lives? I wrote the company we keep because I wanted to give people real life relatable experiences, but also I wanted to allow people the space to get curious about themselves and their relationships That is what I want this book to do. I hope people read it in friend book clubs. I hope you give it to your mama, your daddy, everybody, everybody you are keeping company with. And answer, honestly, there's a lot of reflection questions in there that I really encourage people to lean into. I want this book to be a support system. I want people to learn how to hold themselves accountable and be more honest within their relationships.
(15:32):
This book is really important to me because it's a call in to self-awareness and introspection. It's not just about what somebody else did to you and how somebody hurts you. It's not that. We are the common denominators in our relationships. How are we playing roles in other people's lives and where are we dropping the ball? Where are we still learning? Where are we still tender? What do we want and need? And how can we lean deeper in together? Or maybe look at this and be like, "This relationship is no longer in alignment because we've been friends since I was 10 and now I'm 40 and we have not grown together and we don't have to stay anywhere just out of convenience." So it's a call in to be honest, honestly.
Elise Hu (16:21):
On the accountability end of it and taking accountability for ourselves, what do you think are our responsibilities in relationships with one another?
Alex Elle (16:30):
To be clear about our expectations, about our desires, about what we need, and it's important to note that we have roles and responsibilities when we are in relationship with other people. And in this day and age, people are like, "I don't owe anybody anything. I don't have expectations." It's just like, that is BS. It is not helpful. We do have expectations of people. Whether or not they can meet those expectations is a whole nother conversation, but we have to be honest and be like, "No, this is what ... I do expect honesty in my relationships. I do expect respect in my relationships. I do expect reciprocity in my relationships, and there is nothing wrong for having those needs and expectations and desires. There's nothing wrong with people not being able to meet them, but they may not be your people that you keep close to you.
(17:26):
" And so that's how I feel about that, especially in this day and age where it's just like we don't owe anybody anything. It's like you actually do.
Doree Shafrir (17:37):
I mean, this idea that you do actually owe people something, I think is something that a lot of people right now don't want to come to terms with, right?
Alex Elle (17:48):
But there's a difference though between ... Listen, I do believe that we owe the people that we are choosing to be in relationships with something, our time, our energy, our effort. Yes. I think, yes, right?
(18:00):
But there are also people who don't have time, energy, or effort. So if you don't want to make that time, if you literally do not have the capacity for it, then that's a separate conversation because when you are in relationships with people, you do owe them pieces of yourself if you want healthy relationships. And we owe that communication when we can't. Something that me and my really close friends do, if we are at capacity, we check in with each other before we ask each other for anything. "Hey, sis, do you have capacity for this? "Even if it's a joyful moment, because sometimes life is freaking hard and it's like, " No, I don't have time for your joy today, girl. "So it's not said that way, but it's this honesty of, " Oh, hey sis, do you have a moment for joy today? "Sometimes the homegirls are like, " I wish I did.
(18:50):
These kids got me in the trenches. I'm going to have to tap in with you when I can be present with your joy because you deserve that. "And we're not having these types of conversations where it's like leading with curiosity, leading with honesty about our capacity. And that is why so many people much rather ghost or let a relationship explode and not repair because people hate being honest, because how dare I say I don't have capacity for your joy today. Sometimes you freaking don't, and that's okay.
Doree Shafrir (19:21):
So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.
Elise Hu (19:33):
You started this book journey several years ago now, I think back in 2022. What was going on at the time for you and how did it turn into the animating questions of this book? I
Alex Elle (19:45):
Think I was just at a turning point. When I hit 35, things really changed for me. What I wanted, what I needed, what the space that I wanted to take up in other people's lives, especially as an only child and the space that I have in my life as a mother of three and a partner, you know what I mean? Things were just shifting. And I was starting to see the newer friends in particular, it's hard to make new friends in our adulthood, right? And a lot of the friendships that I have, which I have maybe 10 really close friends, we are really involved in each other's lives. We're each other's ... We are aunties to each other's kids. We are making money decisions together. We have each other's calendar. We have each other's location where a lot of my friends are out of town, so we have to make intentional time to schedule, to visit or talk on the phone.
(20:52):
And so that is something that I deeply value. And I was realizing that the newer friends I was trying to become close with, we just didn't have that same capacity for each other because that's hard. It's hard to add one more person to your life, especially when you have kids, when you have spouses or partners or jobs, careers. It's hard. And I think for me, I had to realize that I was at capacity and I wanted to show up in the relationships that I already had really, really intentionally. And in order to do that, I had to allow some of those other friendships to fall away and not in a messy way. Some had conversations of closure, some didn't, and it was three friendships that I wrote about in the book that dissolved, but it required me to be honest with myself about what I wanted to show up for and who I wanted to show up for.
(21:51):
Instead of pretending that I had the capacity to just hold everyone, I would much rather someone say," I like you, but I don't have time for this relationship. "Wow. And that's hard to hear, right? Yeah. But it's harder to start a friendship with somebody knowing you don't have capacity for them, any type of relationship for that matter. Do you want to be in this friendship or do you want to be liked?
Elise Hu (22:19):
Your question that you were approaching was sort of how sustainable, how much capacity do I have for these friendships? How sustainable are my newer friendships? What do you say to our listeners who are hearing this and trying to evaluate this question for themselves? How do we know
Alex Elle (22:35):
... I
Elise Hu (22:36):
Mean, everybody's tank is ... Their level in their tank is different, right?
Alex Elle (22:40):
It's different.
Elise Hu (22:41):
So are there certain questions that we should be asking ourselves that might get at that kind of clarity that you ended up finding?
Alex Elle (22:48):
The questions that we kind of just posed here, grab your journal and write them down and really be honest about it. Take yourself on a walk and voice note, especially ... I love a voice note journaling moment because it's like that stream of consciousness. Then you go back and then you listen and then you take notes in your journal pages or what have you. And so you get kind of deeper clarity. But what I'm really wanting people to do is to start being honest and to stop lying, to keep the peace. Some people may not agree. This is not going to sound fluffy at all, but if we are showing up knowing that we can't, knowing that we don't want to, that is deceitful and it's a form of manipulation, even if we don't mean it to be. And I wrote about this in the company we keep.
(23:37):
I was looking at myself and being like, " I know that I can't hold this relationship and yet I continue to show up and then when I show up, it is not authentic. I'm kind of resentful and pissed that I even have to be there and I'm lying to the person. They're excited to see me and they're excited to have me in the room and I'm like, damn, I don't even want to be here at this birthday party. I could have other things to do.
Elise Hu (24:02):
"It's so funny that you mentioned that because I am kind of a mom who taps out on some of my mom group requirements just of like the other moms in the same grade. I won't necessarily hang out and it has to do with my amount of bandwidth and also having three kids under the age of 13. There's only so much and so many activities and so much social bandwidth that I have or just emotional and energetic bandwidth, right? But I think being intentional about that choice means that you're not lying to anyone either.
Alex Elle (24:32):
Yeah. And you're not lying to yourself like, " Oh, I can do it. I can do it. I can just do it. "You don't want to do this thing, stop. And I had to call myself in and I'm like, " I'm an honest person. I'm a generous person. I'm a loving person and I don't like who I am when I am stretching myself thin in a way that abandons myself, especially when it comes to building healthy relationships. I don't believe that self-abandonment is an act of love. I don't. I think it is very, very dangerous, especially for women. I think it is harmful. I think it shows our children that being selfless in an unhealthy way is how they get love and that is not true. And so I had to really look at all of these patterns that I picked up in childhood, like to be the good girl, to just show up and smile even though I'm suffering.
(25:34):
I refuse to do that anymore. We're not doing it in an ugly, mean, harsh way. We're being honest and compassionate and people much prefer that than us going along to get along and like being miserable.
Elise Hu (25:48):
Was there anything in the process of researching and writing and doing some of the voice notes that then became the book that you learned about yourself that you have kind of actually applied and changed?
Alex Elle (25:58):
My gosh, I'm so avoidant and
(26:04):
A lot of what I wrote about in the company we keep was me calling myself out of that comfort of avoidance, right? Let's just brush it under the rug. Let's just go along to get along and I realized as I was writing this book how often I was doing that in my life and it made me quite sad. And a part of that was looking at my childhood and looking at my relationship with the women in my life and how I've just seen them be martyrs and how I've also seen them deeply unhappy and how I've never seen them with close friends. And for me, I'm a big believer that friendship is just important. It has anchored me in so many different ways. The more I avoided myself and my longing for deep reciprocity and connection, the more I felt kind of just floating out at sea aimlessly with no anchor.
(27:07):
And so when I think about my friendships, I think about how they have invited me sometimes in really tough love kind of ways to stop avoiding the hard things, to name the hard things, to make space for repair, and to meet people where they are meeting us. My friendships are so beautiful and as an only child, I have adopted all of my friends as family. And so it's like I am committed to working on myself always so that I can be as full as intentional and intentional as I can for the people around me, my children, my friends, my work. I think that writing this book has nudged me in so many ways to continue to lean in.
Elise Hu (28:02):
Alex, you're a big journaler and you encourage journaling and you teach it. For those who haven't gotten started, or those of us who are like, "Oh, I'm going to start journaling and then abandon it quickly," what tips do you have?
Alex Elle (28:18):
So I used to be a long form journaler. I am no longer that, especially as someone who writes books, it's really hard to be on the page sometimes. And so what I started doing is using a calendar, like a planner and putting my spots of joy in them. So instead of using the planner to write out my day, I put little pockets of joy in each of the boxes and I call it joyspotting. And that is how I show up on the page these days and I love it. I love that.
(28:55):
Because it is an invitation back to gratitude. It's an invitation back to the moment and it's a low lift thing. And then if I feel like, okay, I could dive deeper here, I will. But journaling doesn't have to be this dear diary experience. It doesn't have to be depressing. It doesn't have to be any of those things. It can be totally. The page has space for us, but I think people get so intimidated also because of privacy, right? They've had their personal journals violated in the past. And so there's so many different ways to kind of process these days from voice note journaling, and then you can put a security lock on your voice memos so that you know it's like safe with yourself. There's different ways to experience journaling. It doesn't have to be pen and paper, but as a writer, I'm always like, "Hey, let's get on the page and process." Even if it's just one line a day, one word a day, at the end of the month, you have all these beautiful words that came up for you, right?
(29:55):
And so it doesn't have to look one way because it isn't.
Elise Hu (29:59):
Yeah. Doree has kept up with With her one line a day journal for how many years now, Doree?
Doree Shafrir (30:03):
It's been seven years now.
Alex Elle (30:07):
It's amazing.
Doree Shafrir (30:08):
Yeah. I used to journal more extensively when I was younger and it was too much pressure almost to feel like I had to fill a page or something, but the one line is so doable and now I look back and it's such a chronicle of what was going on. So yeah, I love that.
Alex Elle (30:29):
Yeah. It's so special too.
Doree Shafrir (30:31):
Yeah, it's really special. Alex, if there's one thing that we can do to kind of better know ourselves so we can better connect with others, what do you recommend?
Alex Elle (30:41):
What's been coming up for me lately is staying curious, staying curious about what we truly want and truly need. And when we lead with curiosity, we make so much room for possibility in our lives. And I know that this may sound kind of like, well, what does that even mean? For me, it's literally asking myself questions. Alex, what do you want out of this life? How do you want the love story of your life to be? I had a friend ask me that recently and she wasn't talking about an intimate partner and anything. She goes, "What do you want your love story to look like with yourself?" And I had to really think about that. Where do I see myself? I do a lot of visioning, especially I have a 18 year old going off to college this year. She's going to art school. And then I have two little ones who are eight and six.
(31:38):
And so I have all these different things happening in my life. Who am I outside of these children? Who am I outside of my roles in their life? What does that look like? And I'm a big believer in women being autonomous and not centering everyone else and then putting herself at the bottom of the list. I'm a big believer in that. So it's like, how do I need to move myself up to the top of my list? What brings me joy today, truly? What is pissing me off? And also looking at that and not suppressing anger or annoyance or frustration. But all of that requires being curious, all of it. And I think a lot of people have this misconception about me that I'm very kind of peaceful and zen and a little woo-woo. And I am the most probably chaotic person anybody could ever meet in a beautiful way, in a beautiful, curious way.
(32:39):
I am peaceful, but I also have a lot of things that I wrestle with and that require me to inquire within before that outward validation, which I love sometimes. I love outward validation, especially from my friends. I'm like, "Am I doing this right?" And I've had to learn. You check in with you first. Even if they love you so, so much and they know you so, so well, you know yourself better. Stop avoiding yourself to get other people to do your work because that's not how it works and it won't work.
(33:18):
So yeah.
Elise Hu (33:20):
That's a beautiful note to end on. Alex Elle, thank you for opening yourself up to us, sharing so much of you with us and then offering such actionable guidance for our listeners.
Doree Shafrir (33:32):
And writing such a beautiful book.
Alex Elle (33:34):
Thank you all for having me. I'm grateful.
Doree Shafrir (33:40):
Alex was another one of those guests who I'm just like, I feel calmer after speaking with you. Elise, how did strength training go?
Elise Hu (33:53):
It didn't.
Alex Elle (33:55):
It didn't.
Doree Shafrir (33:55):
Okay. All right. Okay. Listen, I like the honesty. I'm going to just say it.
Elise Hu (34:01):
We're going to reup it. We're going to have to reup it because it's very important I can actually feel myself becoming weaker if that's possible. So I don't know if it's like a placebo thing because we put it into a reverse placebo because we put it out into the universe that I was going to do this and that I didn't. And then I'm like, oh, I can tell. But yeah, we're just going to have to re-up it. But what about you?
Doree Shafrir (34:25):
Elise, I have actually also been thinking lately that I kind of miss the gym. And I'm like, oh, do I want to go back to a gym? I kind of do. I don't know how to fit it into my life, what with tennis and all, but I also feel like as I'm playing a lot of tennis, but maybe my muscles are kind of atrophying.
Elise Hu (34:50):
Well, you're not using all of the muscles or you're not using the muscles that are non-tennis muscles, right? Correct. Because you use your tennis muscles a lot. Yes. But what about all the ones that are less employed in tech?
Doree Shafrir (35:01):
Yes, exactly. So I don't know. Got to figure that out a little bit, I think. Well, last week I said I was going to keep it regular.
Elise Hu (35:10):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (35:11):
I think I-
Elise Hu (35:12):
Fiber.
Doree Shafrir (35:12):
I think I did a pretty good job with that.
Elise Hu (35:15):
Good job.
Doree Shafrir (35:16):
TPD. This week is kind of all about reentry back into the world after this trip. So going to try to sort of like recenter myself. I also have to sketch out a schedule for a big project I'm taking on. And so I feel like I was sort of like waiting to get past this trip to kind of like start a bunch of stuff. Okay. You know what I mean?
Elise Hu (35:45):
So this is kind of a reset post. Reset week. Yes. Okay.
Doree Shafrir (35:49):
Exactly. So that is the idea. All right everyone, thanks so much for listening. Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Samee Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partners, Acast. Thanks so much for listening.
Elise Hu (36:04):
Talk to you next time. Take care.
Doree Shafrir (36:05):
Bye.