Mini-Ep 488: Group Dynamics
Doree and Elise hear from listeners about neighborliness and affordability, cliques in a mom group, some prod recs and q’s, and why can’t we just keep the things that we love.
Mentioned in this Episode
Local extension office master gardeners
Trade Joe’s Dark Chocolate Covered Corn Kernels
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Transcript
This episode transcript is AI generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:17):
And I'm Elise Hu and we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Doree Shafrir (00:20):
And this is a mini episode where we hear from you, we share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability. But please remember, we are podcast hosts, we are not experts, and we always encourage you to seek support first and foremost from a medical and/or mental health professional as needed.
Elise Hu (00:38):
I mean, especially with our president tweeting about the end of civilization and all, I would imagine a lot of us should be seeking any mental support and emotional supports as much as possible. Somebody was asking me- So
Doree Shafrir (00:53):
True.
Elise Hu (00:54):
... how I was doing. I was like, well, all things considered.
Doree Shafrir (00:58):
Right.
Elise Hu (00:59):
Hanging on. Hanging on. Maris Kreisman, who was on this show just last year, the author and literary critic Maris, she posted something on threads or something like that about like, "Am I supposed to call my congressman to tell them? I'm very upset about the end of civilization."
Doree Shafrir (01:23):
Totally. Is that something we're supposed to have to do or?
Elise Hu (01:29):
Yes. Holy moly. Yeah. So just trying to ... You talked about this in the very early days of the second Trump administration, which is like this concept that was very familiar to those in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet block of hypernormalization, which I think describes just having to go and get groceries and pick up your kids from school and make coffee in the morning and all these things that are normal while there's these large macro catastrophes happening. So we're all just trying to get by.
Doree Shafrir (02:10):
We're all trying to just survive here.
Elise Hu (02:15):
That is right.
Doree Shafrir (02:19):
Oh boy. Boy. Oh boy.
Elise Hu (02:22):
Do you have any exciting plans coming up that you want to talk about?
Doree Shafrir (02:27):
Something I've been doing with Henry is I've been taking him to play tennis just with us.
Elise Hu (02:35):
Oh, cute.
Doree Shafrir (02:36):
Because he takes group lessons sometimes, but sometimes it's hard to schedule. And sometimes the group lessons aren't ... I don't know, they're not that great, but private tennis lessons are pretty expensive. Right. So yeah, but I just wanted to get him in the habit of just hitting. And we went last weekend, I just booked a court for an hour and we played and it was really nice and we're going to do it again this weekend. So I like that too because it's like an activity that we can do together. And I'm not coaching him exactly, but I'm giving him some tips and he actually had a lot more tolerance for it than I was expecting. The last time we had tried this, maybe, I don't know, at least a year ago, he lasted like 10 minutes, but this time he lasted like 45 minutes.
Elise Hu (03:34):
That's great.
Doree Shafrir (03:35):
Yeah. And I was like, "Okay, this is great." Just kind of getting him out there. So I don't know, that was just a nice little thing.
Elise Hu (03:44):
I wish I had a sport that my kids played with me or I wish the kids played a sport that I played. Luna is now super into football and so she's learning football routes. This is like American football, not soccer. And so she's learning from both her dads from Rob and from Maddie how to run routes like play and quick slant. And it's really fun for them. They're having all this good times, but I'm not that great at throwing and catching a football. It'd be cool if they got back into tennis. Both those girls, when they were four and six, started taking lessons, but I did find it to be kind of a waste of money.
Doree Shafrir (04:27):
Yeah, it's tough. I think it's- I
Elise Hu (04:30):
Mean, they were able to last for the lesson. It was just that are they really learning or
Doree Shafrir (04:34):
How to- Are they learning anything?
Elise Hu (04:35):
Right.
Doree Shafrir (04:35):
Yeah, exactly.
Elise Hu (04:38):
And I don't really think so.
Doree Shafrir (04:40):
I was skeptical. I've definitely been skeptical.
Elise Hu (04:44):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (04:45):
So we'll see. It's fun for me. And if he likes it, then we will keep doing it. Yeah.
Elise Hu (04:55):
Great.
Doree Shafrir (04:57):
Elise, you were mentioning just sort of everything that's been going on in the world, and we actually got a text about this from a listener who said, "With everything that's happening in the world right now, much of which has been instigated by a federal government I don't agree with, I find myself wanting to change my relationship with spending while I still can. " I'm trying to grow more of my own vegetables and flowers. I know this is not accessible or desirable to everyone, but it truly brings me so much joy and calm. I'm doing more IRL, signature gathering, supporting a local city council candidate, baking, sewing, all the cozy hobbies, so that I make myself less susceptible to advertising. Is anyone else in the same boat? Has anyone successfully lowered unnecessary spending in a way that isn't diet culture by a different name?
Elise Hu (05:51):
That's a great question. I love what she's doing more in real life with the mutual aid, signature gatherings, supporting local races, baking, sewing, really leaning into neighborlyness.
Doree Shafrir (06:04):
Yes.
Elise Hu (06:05):
I think there's a real connection between affordability and the larger conversations going on in progressive circles or in the Democratic Party about affordability, but then also it's twin I think is neighborliness and how we can support each other in a way that isn't requiring consumption or doesn't require consumption. It can be generative, like what we can make, what we can grow, what we can bake and all those things. So I think about a lot of these themes, I don't know. Partially because of my general rejection of diet culture, I also don't monitor things like screen time because I think we watch our screen time. We can tend to watch our screen time in the way that we police our food intake or have policed food intake in the past. And that extends, I think, to watching very carefully my bank account. I don't know if I'm spending more or spending less necessarily.
(07:02):
And I imagine though that lowering unnecessary spending can happen without rigidly tracking because you're asking the question, have you lowered unnecessary spending in a way that isn't diet culture by a different name, like being really rigid about it is what I'm thinking you're asking. And so yeah, you could essentially set some big picture goals, right? Like all the vegetables I'm going to eat this month or most of the vegetables I eat this month are going to be from my garden and you're going to be invisibly spending less money on vegetables and produce.
Doree Shafrir (07:43):
I love that.
Elise Hu (07:43):
Without like a certain number like, oh, I hit my goal of reducing my grocery bills by 20%, which you're right, can get a little bit difficult or can get us into a cycle of thinking that can be challenging for some of us.
Doree Shafrir (07:59):
Yeah. I think that the diet culture feeling comes from tracking, but I also see how, if you're not tracking, how are you going to know if you're actually spending less money? Yeah, come paradox.
Elise Hu (08:17):
Right, right,
Doree Shafrir (08:17):
Right. Yeah. So I guess maybe for you, the solution is to just kind of like be kind to yourself and think about your daily choices. Maybe like Elise was saying, you're growing your vegetables. So if you're not like writing that down on a spreadsheet, you just know that you're spending less money on vegetables. So I think if there's just like things that you can sort of sub out. And the other thing that I would say is like, and this goes along with the like be kind to yourself, is it's going to be basically impossible to spend nothing. So try not to get upset with yourself if you spend any money. Does that make sense? Like you're going to spend some money. It just, it is what it is, but you're making all these other positive choices. So just sort of like take comfort in that.
(09:18):
Yep,
Elise Hu (09:19):
Good answer.
Doree Shafrir (09:19):
That's what I would say to that. All right. We are going to take a short break and I just want to remind everyone before we take a break that our voicemail is 781-591-0390. Our email is forever35podcast@gmail.com. Our website is forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned on the show. Our Instagram is @Foreber35Podcast. Our Patreon is at patreon.com/freber35. We have a free level where you get access to our semi-monthly newsletter. At $5 a month, you get access to our casual chat, which is now on video. You get our live casual chats. We just did one last week and you access our community chat in the Patreon app. At $10 a month, you also get ad free episodes and a shout out on the podcast each and every month. Our favorite products are at shopmy.us/forever35. And after the break, we have some really interesting questions.
(10:13):
One of them is about how to make sure that people in a group you lead are not being cliquey.
Elise Hu (10:21):
It's a
Doree Shafrir (10:22):
Very interesting question.
Elise Hu (10:24):
Yep. Yep.
Doree Shafrir (10:24):
So stay tuned. We will be right back.
Elise Hu (10:27):
We'll be right back.
Doree Shafrir (10:35):
All right. We are back. And as promised, here is the voicemail.
Listener Voicemail (10:42):
Hi, Doree and Elise. So I run this playgroup of parents with young children, so babies and toddlers. And we have people who've been coming for years and we also have people who are new and we frequently get new people coming. And people who've been coming for years have their friends in the group, but newer people have sometimes a harder time incorporating into the group. And I sometimes don't see them coming back. And I wonder if it's because they don't feel like they've been welcomed into the group and I really want them to feel welcomed. I obviously welcome them and chat with them and I try to introduce people. And I also say, "Oh, please make an effort to go say hi to someone new today." But I still feel like it's hard for those people to enter a group when people have been coming for years and they see their friend and of course immediately go talk to them.
(11:42):
So my question is, how do you incorporate new members into a group? I know Elisa's goal is for all of her friends to become friends. So of course I would love that for new members to make friends in this group and feel welcomed. And I think there's an added challenge where they're always chasing around young kids at the same time. So doing an icebreaker type of activity is pretty hard. So yeah, if you guys have any tips, I would love to hear them. Thanks. I
Elise Hu (12:13):
Imagine our listenership has all sorts of great advice. So listeners, please call in. I know we have therapists, we have group leaders of various sorts. We have folks from like botanical gardens and museums that lead tours. And so please call in. But I do think about this and it comes up in like conferences. I'll go to unconferences every once in a while. And I remember there's some that some facilitators who do a really good job of just inclusiveness and making sure that cliques don't calcify in a way that makes it really difficult for newcomers. And so one thing is to identify like who's new or make sure that the folks who have been around for a while know these are the five or six new people in advance. And then you could even more formally say, "Hey, I'm looking for volunteers to be assigned a new person in this group, a new attendee to be their buddy." And then it's almost like a mentorship mentee program that you start off asking people who are willing to be kind of the guide, the Sherpa for the new person at the initial meetings or the initial five or six weeks or something like that.
(13:31):
So that there's something that's a little bit more formalized so that there's kind of a buddy system so that new person gets integrated. And if they're integrated, then we assume they're going to get more integrated into the clicks in so much as they exist. The other conference, I remember there was a conference set of guidelines or norms that were set at this one that I went to in Berkeley last year, and it was about opening up and not closing in. And it was essentially just that when you're standing in a circle or just standing around generally, to always like be opening up to more people in the group because we have a tendency and it might just happen naturally. I think it's just like the way humans behave where if we are in a kind of a circle at a party or at the initial reception at a conference, you're just in your little circle, but not having our eyes on a swivel to open up or think about how we can open up.
(14:29):
And so it was a real norm. I remember explicitly at this conference that if somebody sat down at your table or if you were just standing around, that you would physically try to like open up your group to include more people and welcome them in, especially if you didn't know them. And I remember just feeling very much less alone and welcomed at this place because I was there on my own. I didn't really know anybody and it was a lot of people from like tech backgrounds, so it wasn't people who were even really in my field, a lot of scientists, but because of the norms set by the conference very early on, that this is one of inclusiveness that we open up, we don't close in, that if you see a stranger who's kind of on their own, be sure to introduce yourself and ask them if they want to be a part or show them what you're up to.
(15:23):
Those norms and just setting them from the very start can really encourage belonging and like group dynamics that are inclusive.
Doree Shafrir (15:33):
I think that's really good advice. I also just want to note something about the particular dynamics of baby groups in general, because I did two baby groups when Henry was a baby, one of which just lasted for one cycle, like no one wanted to continue,
(15:53):
And the other went for like four or five cycles. The first group was very cliquey. There were like two distinct cliques, and then there were a few people who were like left out, totally. And we were all like new moms, so there was a little bit of sort of like days about what's going on, and also like I don't think the facilitator was that good. But then in the second group, there also were cliques and like I was a part of one. It happens. The thing that I think is especially tough about your situation is that you have, it seems like you constantly have like new people coming in,
(16:42):
And that is really hard, I think. I think if there's any way to start groups on a certain schedule or timeframe, like you have your Monday at 1:00 PM group that started on this- Oh, waves. Yeah. Yeah, like waves. Exactly. Because once that cohort with a baby group has formed, it's really hard to let new people in. I think there's just something about the dynamic of that group. You kind of feel like you're all in this together. For the second group, we did occasionally have new people come in and like, most of them didn't last more than one cycle. I think it was just hard. So I wonder if there's a way ... And then also you want to have these mom friends who have babies that are the same age as your baby. So if you have these moms whose babies are now like one and you have another mom coming in whose baby is like three months old, they're at different stages.
(17:45):
I think it might be worth your while to start different groups with different cycles of kids.
Elise Hu (17:53):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Doree Shafrir (17:54):
So I don't know, just a thought. Okay. Moving on, we got some more gardening thoughts. We got this really great email from a woman, a listener named Anne, who runs the Master Gardener volunteer program at the University of Florida. Oh,
Elise Hu (18:18):
Cool. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (18:20):
She's legit. And she said, I was listening to mini episode 486 and was thrilled when another listener mentioned looking to the master gardeners for gardening advice. I coordinate a county master gardener program and adore my volunteers. They are trained volunteers that work to assist local extension horticulture educators. The educator, typically just one person per county cannot assist all residents, so we train our master gardener volunteers to help us with outreach and education. The important thing to know about master gardener advice is that it is all research based science backed advice from whatever state land grant university the master gardeners are associated with.
Listener Voicemail (19:01):
Very Cool. So
Doree Shafrir (19:02):
This is the best advice for gardeners in that state/region/county. We are not selling anything with the gardening advice, just truly sharing what will work best for you based on university research. This might meet plant selection, vegetable gardening, and what to grow when, tree care, how to solve your gardening and landscaping issues. So when Elise mentioned needing a plant doctor, you have them in every state in the US. That is your local university extension office. This is where the master gardeners operate out of a local level.
Elise Hu (19:30):
So
Listener Voicemail (19:31):
Helpful.
Doree Shafrir (19:31):
Your extension office, again, this is part of the land grant system throughout the US, operates to get research to the residents. I work to get the horticulture research done at the university out to the residents in ways they can use it and provide solutions for their lives. Most offices like mine offer a plant clinic. This is part of the office where residents can call, email, walk in with any and all gardening and landscaping questions, and we will answer them for free. Elise, this is your free plant doctor service. Many master
Elise Hu (19:59):
Gardener- I bring a truck. I should just bring the plant in.
Doree Shafrir (20:02):
Seriously. Many master gardener programs offer this same service when you see them in the community, booths of farmer's markets and such. They also offer free or minimal cost workshops to help you learn gardening skills. The extension offices vary from county to county and state to state. I encourage everyone to go to your local extension office and see what they have to offer. There are way more programs than just the master gardeners. We have four age youth programming, summer camps, nutrition and cooking classes, conservation programs, farming, and more. Thank you again to whoever mentioned the master gardeners. This listener is also a certified arborist and is prescription pruding qualified. I will
Elise Hu (20:39):
Have you know. I am not in Florida. I would want to take you out
Doree Shafrir (20:43):
For a
Elise Hu (20:43):
Coffee or meal. Oh my goodness.
Doree Shafrir (20:46):
Wow. I just learned so much.
Elise Hu (20:49):
My indoor plants are doing great. Actually, my outdoor plants are doing all right too. I have a Ficus Audrey tree. It's the national plant of India. It's just doing great. It's a new season for it and so it's just like shed it's previously all new ones. Yeah, stuff is looking good. So it's springtime.
Doree Shafrir (21:08):
Happy for you.
Elise Hu (21:09):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (21:10):
Elise, do you want to read this next text about how correct I was?
Elise Hu (21:15):
Just following up to say Doree is spot on. That's what Doree likes to hear. "R/plantclinic, "this is a Reddit, a Reddit subreddit, is where to go for Elise's plant doctor needs. I do not know how they do it, but they immediately look at a tiny spot and have a comprehensive diagnosis. Wish my derm were as good.
Doree Shafrir (21:39):
This might
Elise Hu (21:40):
Become
Doree Shafrir (21:40):
Your new favorite subreddit. I'm
Elise Hu (21:42):
Just
Doree Shafrir (21:42):
Saying.
Elise Hu (21:43):
Yeah. Yeah. I do need some new subreddits in my life.
Doree Shafrir (21:49):
Head over
Elise Hu (21:49):
To Plant
Doree Shafrir (21:49):
Clinic. Okay. We are going to take another short break and when we come back, we have a voice mail from a very special listener and a couple of recommendations. One is a Trader Joe's rec, one is a skincare wreck, so we'll do it back. Okay, can't wait. All right, we are back. Elise, you might recognize this listener's voice.
Listener Voicemail (22:24):
Hi, I'm Rob. I'm a first time caller and just wondering if you can recommend some kind of face lotion to keep my skin healthy. Thanks.
Doree Shafrir (22:33):
Well, well, well.
Elise Hu (22:36):
She's so corny. Okay. This is the backstory. Rob flew to Scottsdale where he is and I guess sometime during this flight he texts, "What is a skin lotion I can get to use on my face every day to help it stay healthy? Sarah V, don't need fancy." And I was like, "How do you not know this? Can you record that as a voice memo?" Because that is a legit question that A, as a 50-year-old man, you should know, but may have an answer to, but B, that could be for the mini up.
Doree Shafrir (23:15):
Totally.
Elise Hu (23:17):
He wants to know what is a skin lotion I can get to use my face.This is a very revealing question because it shows how limited his current skincare routine is.
Doree Shafrir (23:27):
I actually do think CeraVe is a good place to start.
Elise Hu (23:30):
Okay. Yeah, great. Yeah, he uses CeraVe skin or sunscreen on his face. Okay. So maybe just stay in that line.
Doree Shafrir (23:39):
Yeah, I think stay in that line. He didn't say if he has a particular skin issue, but Seravi makes a few different moisturizers for different types of skin. So I would just, if he has dry skin, if he has oil, he can get the one that corresponds and they also make a good sunscreen. He should definitely be wearing sunscreen every day.
Elise Hu (23:58):
Yep. He uses their sunscreen.
Doree Shafrir (23:59):
Yeah. And yeah, I think that that's just where I would start.
Elise Hu (24:03):
Okay. Okay, Rob. There's your wreck.
Doree Shafrir (24:07):
I love that he called in. Okay. We got a recommendation from a listener for the Trader Joe's dark chocolate covered crunchy corn kernels.
Elise Hu (24:21):
Haven't seen these. I don't know. I don't know.
Doree Shafrir (24:25):
You're skeptical.
Elise Hu (24:27):
Chocolate and corn. I guess there's sweet popcorn. I mean, I like kettle corn, salty and crunchy and chocolatey. Crunch is one of my favorite flavors. So I do like the idea. Yeah, this listener
Doree Shafrir (24:41):
Says they're salty, crunchy chocolatey, but I don't ... What is a corn kernel? Is that like an unpopped popcorn kernel? Is it a kernel of actual corn on the cob? What does that mean? I
Elise Hu (24:52):
Don't. I don't know. All right. I mean, this is a wreck that came with a photo and lots of exclamation points. Our listener's very excited about it. I am happy to at least tries it. I will do it. Next Trader Joe's. Next Trader Joe's run.
Doree Shafrir (25:10):
Next Trader Joe's run. And then the same listener also sent in a skincare recommendation for the bioma moisturizing gel cream. Elise, do you want to read their recommendation?
Elise Hu (25:22):
Yeah. Skincare rec coming in hot. Love, love, love this moisturizer, especially at this price point. This is the Bioma Moisturizing Gel Cream. It's in a pale pink bottle. I mix it with hyaluronic acid every morning and it's excellent, very moisturizing, but fast absorption and doesn't feel sticky. My only complaint is the bottle function. You can't really squeeze out every last drop because of the design. It's designed as a rectangular bottle. And you can't see when it's running low because it's not transparent. So however, at the price point, I kind of accept it. For reference, my other favorite moisturizer is the Biosense gel, which I think is overall a better product with more functional packaging, even though I think the glass is too thick. But at this price difference, you can't beat it. This Bioma moisturizer is 15.99. I know of it because my preteen Isabel loves Bioma products.
(26:19):
She has a line of these products. I'm going to have to go down there to her bedroom and steal it to try it out. Steal a little dollop.
Doree Shafrir (26:27):
Okay. It's like the rolls have been reversed.
Elise Hu (26:33):
I know. I know.
Doree Shafrir (26:33):
Now you're stealing from her. Okay. Last text. Someone wrote us. Elise, Bezos is taking away support to our old Kindles. What should we do? I love my 2011 Kindle touch.
Elise Hu (26:47):
Mine's 2014 or 2015. I have a paper white. It might be one of my favorite objects that I own because it's so old and it's been with me all over the world. It's probably been to like 25 countries.
Doree Shafrir (27:02):
What is the cutoff? Do you know?
Elise Hu (27:04):
I have no idea. This is the first I've even heard that they're going to take away support.
Doree Shafrir (27:08):
Boy, oh boy.
Elise Hu (27:10):
Man, why can't we just keep the things that we love, keep and maintain old things? Why must we continually buy new things?
Doree Shafrir (27:18):
I know.
Elise Hu (27:18):
My old
Doree Shafrir (27:19):
Thing is great.This is a classic economics. You learn about this in economics 101, planned obsolescence. So yeah.
Elise Hu (27:32):
I'm making a sad face.
Doree Shafrir (27:33):
I know. It's very sad. I'm sorry. Yeah. It's a bummer.
Elise Hu (27:40):
It sure is. I mean, we don't need to be buying from Amazon very much anyway, but that was a product that I had owned in the early days of eBooks and has been with me for so long and I just ... Anyway, well, thank you for letting us know, listener. And I will have to do some research to find out when this planned obsolescence is going to be carried out.
Doree Shafrir (28:10):
Yeah. All right. Well, thank you everyone. We'll talk to you soon. Oh, also just a heads up to our Patreon supporters. There is no casual chat this week. Elise is at TED. Yes. So we will casually chat with you next week.
Elise Hu (28:25):
That's right. All right soon.
Doree Shafrir (28:27):
Bye. Bye.