Episode 397: The Scandal, The Optics, and The Gossip with Allie Jones
Allie Jones (writer, editor, and celebrity gossip newsletterist) joins the show to discuss what’s happening in the world of celebrity gossip right now, from Brooklyn Beckham’s family drama to Taylor Swift’s bachelorette party. They also chat about how Allie can tell when gossip has reached monoculture, what celebrity culture reveals about society, and the backchannel work that shapes what we know about the biggest names in entertainment.
Mentioned in this Episode
Taylor Swift’s Publicist Tree Paine Fiercely Guards Her Reputation - WSJ
Connect with Allie Jones
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Transcript
The following transcript is AI generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:16):
And I'm Elise Hu and we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Doree Shafrir (00:20):
And today we have a real treat for you. If you are a consumer of celebrity gossip and/or commentary on celebrity gossip, you're probably familiar with the name Allie Jones because she writes the amazing Substack newsletter Gossip Time and also contributes to a ton of places. And she is just so delightful. I loved our conversation with her.
Elise Hu (00:49):
Allie is really funny. I'm a subscriber to Gossip Time. I subscribe to two celebrity Substacks. Gossip Time and Hunter Harris.
Doree Shafrir (00:59):
And
Elise Hu (00:59):
They often collab or their topics are in conversation and I love their approaches. They both have very distinctive voices as writers. They have distinctive perspectives on things. Allie, if y'all don't already follow her, has this section in her newsletter every time called Stuff by Hillary Duff, because she's obsessed with Hillary Duff, and it's so funny. I live for that segment.
Doree Shafrir (01:24):
She's so funny. Yeah, she's so great. So we will get to her later in the episode.
Elise Hu (01:35):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (01:36):
Elise, how are you doing?
Elise Hu (01:38):
I'm pretty tired. I feel a little sleep deprived this week, but then also that I've been home too much, which then makes me tired. So I need to be out and
Doree Shafrir (01:50):
About
Elise Hu (01:51):
With my friends to get energized. And so yesterday I came home from one of my many kid drop-offs of Wednesday afternoon and I kind of had this meltdown to Rob and I was like, "I got to get out of the house. I've been home three nights in a row." And I was home because Luna wanted to have a special sleepover with her dad on her birthday. So her birthday was Tuesday. She turned nine, happy birthday to the tuna.
(02:20):
And then she had a normal day. She had musical theater and then she had soccer. And so I was like, "Do you want to go to Benny Hanna or something for dinner?" Because we often go to Benny Hanna for people's birthdays on their actual birthdays. And she was like, "No, I just want to stay in and eat like Kraft Mac and cheese. And can I go to dad's and do it? " Because the girls usually are with Maddie on the weekends. And I was like, "Great, have a sleepover that. " I mean, so long as he was down and he was totally dumb. And so we just had a chill night on Luna's birthday on Tuesday. And then by Wednesday I was like, I had cabin fever or something. And I was like, "I feel like a caged bird. I need to get out of the house." I know, please.
Doree Shafrir (03:01):
You would not survive for five minutes in our house.
Elise Hu (03:05):
And Rob was like, "I am so tired. I've had four Zoom meetings. I'm just fried." And I was like, "You're not letting me be me. I need to be out of the house." And so he rallied because what I did was I texted my friends, David and Jill, and Jill was just flying back from New York and she had just landed and David is always game. And he's like, "I'm just walking up and down Venice Beach." So I wasn't really doing anything anyway. And I was like, "Okay, meet in 30 minutes. We need to meet in 30 minutes at the galley. I need to get out of the house." And so they were great. Jill showed up at the bar with her suitcase because she went to go see one of the last tapings of Colbert in New York because Colbert only has 20 tapings left.
(03:55):
Yeah. And so she came in from the airport and showed up at the galley. The galley is the oldest bar restaurant in Santa Monica. And it's owned by a guy who we call Cat and Ron because it's all maritime themed and is decorated with Christmas lights year round. And I've gone there since I've lived in LA. Since I moved to LA in 2018, this has been one of the places that we go midweek or just on a random night like, hey, rally at the galley. Everybody just meet at the galley. And so I called a rally at the galley last night because I was having my meltdown and they showed up and David I think walked up from the beach. He was just like do, do.
Doree Shafrir (04:35):
Wait, that's so fun.
Elise Hu (04:36):
It was so funny and poor Rob was so tired, but he really showed up. He really showed up for me and I'm really glad. I guess Captain Ron bought the restaurant so that he could get the salad dressing recipe. That is the story. They have like some house dressing that's so good that Cat and Ron, the only way for him to get this secret recipe was to buy the place. And
Doree Shafrir (05:01):
So- That's so funny.
Elise Hu (05:03):
We will link to David's story. He has written a piece for Resi that's like a reverie, a tribute to the galley. And so since we're talking about it, since we're on the topic of the galley, we will link to that piece. But now I feel much better. So I was tired and then I got energized, but I had to drag Rob out.
Doree Shafrir (05:25):
Is Rob an introvert?
Elise Hu (05:26):
No, he's a very extroverted guy too. He's just not as extroverted as me.
Doree Shafrir (05:34):
So you make him look like an introvert.
Elise Hu (05:36):
I guess. Yeah, because around 9:30 he was like, "Hey, we don't have a babysitter anymore. Hey." But he sent me this onion article yesterday. The headline is Unclear Where Girlfriend Keeps Making All These Friends. And some line in it is like, "Unable to provide an explanation for the woman's social life. Area man Jason Ellerman told reporters Tuesday. It was unclear where his girlfriend Jess kept making all these friends because I'm always like, we got to go see Garrett. You know, he's in from Kinshasa."
Doree Shafrir (06:12):
I mean, this is what I said about when you hosted my birthday party is like, there were some friends of yours there and they were all great, but they were all like, "I met Elise at an
Elise Hu (06:25):
Airport." The funniest friend, my friend Pamela says the funniest friends of mine that she's met are the ones that I dated once because I
Doree Shafrir (06:32):
Met
Elise Hu (06:32):
Them on Tinder or something and they're like still friends six years later or the ones where I interviewed for a job with them and didn't take the job and then they like continue to be good buddies. I have one like that where I interviewed for a job at the Washington Post and the Washington Post editor and I like became really good friends and he, every year I came back from Korea for home leave, he would host a dinner party at his house for me and my friends and I could invite whoever. And to this day, we're still really good buddies. So those are some of the random
Doree Shafrir (07:03):
Occurrences. I think it's great to live your life like that. You know what I mean? It's a really nice quality of yours that you have. Oh, thanks.
Elise Hu (07:14):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (07:15):
I don't have it.
Elise Hu (07:16):
Well, and then it's also, it's difficult for my partner. It can be challenging for my partner. And so credit to Rob for rallying for the rally at the galley, because now I feel so much better. I was just like doing too much stuff that I didn't want to do, like sitting in this Chick-fil-A drive through for the kids or waiting in a parking lot outside dance. It was kind of getting me down.
Doree Shafrir (07:44):
So I
Elise Hu (07:44):
Feel
Doree Shafrir (07:45):
Better. I hear you.
Elise Hu (07:47):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (07:48):
Well, Elise, before we get to our guest, I do just want to remind everyone that they can call or text us at 781-591-0390. You can email us at forever35podcast@gmail.com. Our website is forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mention on the show and we are on Instagram @forever35podcast. Also, if you want more of us, which why wouldn't you? You can join our Patreon at patreon.com/forever35. At the free level, you get access to our semi-monthly newsletter where we discuss pod highlights, product reviews, exclusive discounts, giveaways, and there's always just fun bonus content on there. At $5 a month, you get access to our casual chat, which is now on video. You get our live casual chats. We just did one last week. It was super fun.
Elise Hu (08:43):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (08:45):
Just really nice to get to hang out with the community. You have access to our community chat and at $10 a month, you get ad free episodes and a shout out on the podcast each and every month. So head over to patreon.com/forever35 and check that out. And now we'll get to Allie, who is a writer and editor. Her work has appeared in the New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, New York Magazine, GQ Vanity Fair and other places. She also writes a weekly newsletter about celebrity gossip called Gossip Time. And previously Allie was a senior writer at the Cut and a staff writer at Gawker, and she now lives in Brooklyn with her family. All right. We are going to take a short break and we will be right back with Allie. Allie Jones, welcome to Forever 35. It is so great to have you here.
Allie Jones (09:43):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.
Doree Shafrir (09:45):
Yes. I've been a longtime reader of your work, so it's really great to get to talk to you. We start all of our interviews with the same question. We ask our guests about a self-care practice that they have. And I know we were chatting before we started recording. You have two very small children. So I am curious how you kind of fit in any sort of self-care with such young children.
Allie Jones (10:09):
No, I was thinking about this question. I'm like, hmm, okay. I have a two and a half year old and an almost four month old. So I'm kind of just coming out of the crisis period of postpartum. But this time around, I knew I was going to be busier. I knew I was going to have less time to do anything. So I came up with a mantra for myself, which I'm not really a mantra person, but it kind of worked. I just told myself, don't suffer. And if I had a free hand, I would've written it on my mirror. But every time I was holding the baby and then my toddler was crying, I was like, "Don't suffer. Don't take this moment on. I'm not going to suffer through this hour. I'm going to turn on reality TV and breastfeed." I just tried to apply that through the first three months and I actually think it kind of worked.
(10:59):
I feel like-
Doree Shafrir (11:01):
I love that. I didn't
Allie Jones (11:02):
Get in the pits. And I mean, your mileage may vary. I'm sure all women just having a baby, it's so different, but I think I didn't get the pits as much as I did the first time around.
Elise Hu (11:12):
And I know paying attention to celebrity gossip is your work, but is it also fun for you? So have you kept up with all of the headlines during your parental leave?
Allie Jones (11:25):
Yes. I mean, I probably have missed some stuff, but when you're up at three in the morning, I'm still on Instagram. It is still fun for me. And there were even things where I was like, "Oh, I wish I had 30 minutes to write this down and send it out because I still get into it.
Elise Hu (11:41):
" Yeah. I mean, I think just this morning, I keep learning of surprises. Aubrey Plaza is pregnant, speaking of babies.
Allie Jones (11:50):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (11:52):
And I didn't even know she was dating Christopher Abbott.
Allie Jones (11:55):
I think she didn't want
Doree Shafrir (11:56):
Us to know about that. I don't think anyone did.
Elise Hu (12:00):
Okay. I didn't know if it was me just coming to this news or what, because we're all in such silos.
Allie Jones (12:06):
I think there was a little bit of low-key stuff about it because they did a play together, but I think they were trying to be private, but then my guess is that she might be pretty far along if they felt the need to have this come out. Congratulations to that. Yes, congratulations.
Doree Shafrir (12:21):
Seriously. I'm curious, what are the sort of celebrity narratives that you are most obsessed with right now?
Allie Jones (12:29):
I don't know if you guys are Bravo people, but the summer house scandal that has sort of engulfed the whole cast is really fascinating. The star Amanda is divorcing her husband, Kyle, and now she's dating her best friend's ex- boyfriend West, and that's the reunion for that show is coming up. So that's been something that has been really taking over. They just interviewed the mayor of New York about it.
Elise Hu (12:56):
Yes, I saw that and he was like, "Sierra, the nurse."
Allie Jones (12:59):
Yeah, I thought that was a good answer. Whoever prepped him on that did a good job. I'm an old school RSS reader person and I have all the tabloids and I go through every morning and I just like to see why is Brad Pitt putting something out now about his girlfriend. I like to follow people over, I've been doing my newsletter gossip time for almost six years now. So I feel like I've really been able to follow an arc of narratives with a lot of different people.
Elise Hu (13:27):
And not just the narratives themselves, but also the machinations behind the narratives too. I'm curious how crisis management or just PR has changed in a short amount of time. I was watching Molly McPherson, the crisis manager who's on TikTok all the time, and she was saying that PR fixers are dead and that Blake Lively's reputational destruction is proof of that. So what has shape shifted about managing brand and managing people's identities over the past few years?
Allie Jones (14:05):
It's so interesting to look at if you even think about the mid-aughts era where everything was tabloids and that felt crazy, but that seems so controlled and so limited compared to what it is today with social media and
Doree Shafrir (14:19):
Basically
Allie Jones (14:20):
Everyone being a gossip reporter in some sense. Everyone's sending things into the domois of the world. And there's almost no lag time now between something happening and everyone knowing about it and there's not enough time for ... I mean, I think probably what this person is arguing is for a publicist to get in there and shape it before it comes out. So I think celebrities have to work a lot harder to keep things down tight. It is possible. If you look at somebody like Rihanna or people still don't know who the father of Mindy Kaling's children is. I do think it's possible to keep information to yourself if you're really, really deliberate about it, but a lot of things are just happening in real time and people are commenting on them in real time and there's not as much you can do to spin it.
Doree Shafrir (15:11):
I mean, we just talked about an example of that with Aubrey Plaza, the news of her pregnancy had not come out until she decided she wanted it known.
Allie Jones (15:20):
Right. So my guess is that they were taking steps for her to not do red carpets. But if I had to guess, and I don't know this for sure, I bet maybe someone has photos of the two of them together or like a photo of her that they then sought comment about it and that's probably
Doree Shafrir (15:35):
Why she decided
Allie Jones (15:36):
To get ahead of it, that would be my guess. I mean, you can choose to kind of wait,
Doree Shafrir (15:41):
But
Allie Jones (15:41):
Not forever.
Doree Shafrir (15:43):
So if the average person wants to be a kind of more like discerning celebrity gossip breeder and sort of understand the machinations behind what's going on, what are the things that they need to look for?
Allie Jones (15:57):
I think that's where I still really like to go to the tabloids, like the Us Weeklies or the peoples, because that actually is what is typically coming directly from the celebrity or someone in their camp, their publicist. When it says like a source close to Brad Pitt, that's his publicist.
(16:18):
So I always find it interesting to just see when they're putting something out, what is actually being said. And so then you can kind of tell, okay, so that's what they want you to think and then try to match that up with what's actually happening on social media. And then another thing is pay attention to the framing of paparazzi photos. If it's really long lens and they're catching somebody on a balcony, they probably don't know that they're being photographed, but if they're walking down the street with a coffee cup and like holding hands with someone, that is something that has been set up. So I always think it's interesting to try to find the distance between what they're putting out there and what's actually happening. And that's what I try to do with the newsletter, but anyone can try to do that as well.
Elise Hu (17:07):
Is it still lucrative to take paparazzi photos? Is there still a thriving micro economy for
Allie Jones (17:16):
Paparazzi
Elise Hu (17:17):
Photographers?
Allie Jones (17:19):
What's interesting, I actually did a story about this during the pandemic. Short answer, no, it's not because celebrities now, if they have a pregnancy, they can choose to just put it out on Instagram. So that really lessens the value of a photo of someone being pregnant. But actually in the pandemic, the paparazzi had a little bit of a resurgence because they were the only ones able to get celebrities sometimes because everyone was in their houses. I don't know if you remember Ben Affleck was dating Anna DeArmis at the time and the paparazzi would just camp out on his street and wait for him to come out and get his Dunkin Donuts coffee. And those photos actually sold for more than they would have in another time because we were just so starved for any content. But now it's kind of rebalanced a little bit and there are still photographers who make a really good living as paparazzi, but it's actually the people who really work with celebrities.
(18:15):
There's a photographer named Dixie and he's known as kind of like Rihanna's main paparazzi photographer. He did her actual pregnancy announcement, paparazzi photos that were more of a photo shoot. Oh,
Elise Hu (18:26):
So it's like having an official White House photographer. Exactly. But this is
Allie Jones (18:30):
Your official Rihanna photographer. It's like your pool photographer. Yeah. So he probably makes good money because he's the only one who had the first photo of Rihanna being pregnant, but your average paparazzi photographer, not as much anymore, not like the golden age of Perez Hilton and all of that in the
Elise Hu (18:44):
Middle. Yeah. I noticed when Michael B. Jordan went to In and Out after he won the Oscar, there was one account where there was video of it that was like the good video of it and not like everybody's cell phone cameras with the bad angles.
Allie Jones (18:59):
Yeah. My guess is that his publicist said, "We're going here."
Doree Shafrir (19:03):
Yeah. I want to ask you about a couple of specific celebrity things that have been going on. One is Brooklyn Beckham and Nicola Pelt.
Allie Jones (19:14):
Yes.
Doree Shafrir (19:15):
Where do you stand on this?
Allie Jones (19:17):
Okay. I am obsessed with this story. I don't know if you just saw Bridget Reid did a really great story in New York Magazine about it. She talked to a bunch of people.
Elise Hu (19:27):
And
Allie Jones (19:27):
Give
Elise Hu (19:27):
Folks some context, just set it up.
Doree Shafrir (19:29):
Yes. Oh yeah, sorry. I guess I just shouldn't assume that everyone is as deeply embedded in this story as we are, but yes, please go ahead. So
Allie Jones (19:37):
Brooklyn Beckham is the oldest son of Posh and Becks, Victoria Beckham, David Beckham, and he's had this really public break with his parents as of a couple months ago. But this has really been building since he got married to Nicola Peltz in 2022. And she is not as famous, but the daughter of a billionaire investor type guy, Nelson Peltz. It all kind of came to a head at their wedding. I guess there was a falling out about Mark Anthony dedicating a song to Victoria instead of Nicola. There was drama about the dress, drama about the guest list. And I think Brooklyn is just really trying to separate himself from his family. I hate to see a family feud. It's sad, but I think it is really interesting. Both sides are kind of trying to control the narrative. And I think the harder they both try, the worse it's looking for- For everybody.
Elise Hu (20:37):
... all
Allie Jones (20:37):
Of them. So maybe there's a lesson in there somewhere.
Elise Hu (20:40):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (20:41):
It's like they've all sort of Streisand affected themselves. Yes. They just continually are calling more and more attention to the whole situation.
Elise Hu (20:51):
There was something very raw about Brooklyn Beckham's initial Instagram story that felt very authentic and real, but you're essentially saying the fact that this is kept going has just made it just gotten mud on everybody.
Allie Jones (21:04):
Well, yeah, I think they've both been leaking to the tabloids. Bridget goes into this in her story for New York Magazine, but there's clearly a Pause and Becks reporter at The Daily Mail that's been seeding a lot of stuff. And then Nicola and Brooklyn have been going more to the Us Weeklies and more the American tabloids. And so even a lot of what he said in his statement was already out there in the tabloids in some form or fashion, like sources said. I think they've both been feeding it for so long that now it's hard to really pick a winner. At least that's how I feel. Maybe they'll have the best day ever and have this reunion and they'll be able to sell a show on Netflix about it and then we'll watch that. So I guess we'll see.
Doree Shafrir (21:48):
Okay. The other thing I want to ask you about is, and you wrote about this in your newsletter this past week, is Taylor Swift's wedding and Bachelorette. What is going on? What is happening?
Allie Jones (21:59):
The reports have been really mixed, whether this is going to be actually a huge wedding or like a very small locked down wedding. To me, the most interesting part is like who's in the bridal party and who are the actual close friends involved. Because with Taylor, it always seems to shift year to year. There are rumors that she's had a big falling out with Kelly Teller, who is Miles Teller's wife, but Miles is really close with Travis Kelsey. So we'll have to wait and see if she's involved in any capacity. Obviously the Blake Lively Taylor Swift falling out has been going on for the last year or so. And we don't know if Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds will be involved at all, even though Taylor's supposedly the godmother to three of their children, which I've always wondered how does that work? You pick the same godmother for every child.
(22:53):
That's not my Catholic tradition, but I don't know.
Elise Hu (22:56):
As a godmother, I don't want too many godchildren.
Allie Jones (22:59):
Yeah. We're all from the same ... I don't know. I always thought you mix it around, but the wedding itself is supposed to be in Rhode Island in June, so we don't have too long to wait to kind of see what happens. And she's supposed to be having multiple bachelorette parties before that to make sure all the girls in the squad can attend. So I'm really looking forward to seeing what leaks out about that because I'm sure stuff will.
Doree Shafrir (23:24):
Oh, a hundred percent.
Elise Hu (23:26):
Ellie, I want to broaden out to ask, now that our attention is so divided and media has fragmented so severely, how do you know, what are your tells for when something in entertainment has really reached monoculture?
Allie Jones (23:40):
That's a great question. Usually if I hear from my dad about it, I'm like, oh. Oh, that's your barometer. Yeah. If it's reached the Wall Street Journal audience or the New York Times or the boomers are getting it, then I think that it has become monoculture and not just TikTok discourse.
Elise Hu (23:58):
Yeah.
Allie Jones (23:58):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (23:59):
Yeah. And what's fascinating to you about celebrity gossip in the first place?
Allie Jones (24:05):
I think I'm just a regular gossip and I have always been really interested in people's relationships and how they're presenting them. And I started my career in journalism and then found talking about celebrities to be more interesting than the other stuff that I was doing at the time and just sort of kept gravitating toward it. And now, I mean, you can argue we have a celebrity president, unfortunately. It crosses over
(24:37):
So many parts of our culture. And I also think celebrity gossip can often tell us where we are as a society. Even this summerhouse scandal, for example, I think it's telling us how we feel about cheating in this day and age, betraying a friend, what does marriage mean? All the reactions that we're seeing can inform us of where we are as a culture on certain issues. And I just find that endlessly fascinating. And I like talking about celebrities as much as I like talking about celebrities in my life, like people I went to high school with or things like that too.
Elise Hu (25:12):
In covering all of this culture stuff, what have you learned about optics and reputational management? And you mentioned that the president in a lot of ways arguably is a celebrity president. So in that sense, he's done this whole reputational management thing really well because it's gotten him to the Oval Office and these high echelons of power. I mean, there's obviously downsides to this. That's an understatement. But what have you learned about the art of this?
Allie Jones (25:40):
Well, I think you're right that it is an art and there are many different approaches that people can take. Someone like Chrissy Tegan is definitely someone who wants to speak for herself and put a lot out there herself. And I think sometimes that's effective and sometimes it's really not for her. I'm trying to think of an example of someone who I think does this really well. I did a story about Taylor Swift's publicist, Tree Pain.
Elise Hu (26:09):
Tree Pain. Yeah. Hunter Harrison. Obsessed with Tree Pain.
Allie Jones (26:11):
Yes, yes. So I did sort of a write around profile of her for The Wall Street Journal a year or so ago. If you want to talk about an old school celebrity publicist, there really is an art to it. And Taylor Swift has really utilized her to only release things when she wants them to be released. I talked to somebody for this story who was interviewing someone who was opening act for Taylor Swift. This was years ago. In order to be able to walk through the stadium where they were performing to meet this other person, they had to sign an NDA and say they won't reveal anything they see or hear about Taylor Swift. If Taylor Swift walks down the hallway, you're not allowed to report it. So that is someone who is not leaving anything to chance at all. And she's like the most popular entertainer right now.
(27:01):
So that approach is working for her.
Elise Hu (27:04):
Okay. Let's take a break and we will be right back.
Doree Shafrir (27:13):
You mentioned Dibois and I'm wondering how other celebrity gossip, I don't know, platforms like Reddit, for example, or podcasts and DeMoise, how are they all feeding into the ecosystem right now?
Allie Jones (27:32):
Yeah. I think the podcast thing is really interesting. I don't know if you guys follow Jake Shane. He's kind of like an influencer who also has a really popular podcast that celebrities go on and someone was just interviewing him and they were like, "If a celebrity says something and they wish they didn't on a podcast, do you cut it out? " And he was like, "Oh, of course." I will always take their requests. I'll always cut it out. And I think journalists listening to that are like, "Ah." But I think podcasts have become a huge way for a celebrity to get a message out there and know that they can be a little more in control of it than they would in a traditional magazine interview even. They'd rather go on Armchair Expert with Dax Shepherd. I don't know what his editing policy is, but I think they would rather do that than sit down with the New York Times.
(28:27):
They don't need to sit down with someone who's going to be even a little bit adversarial anymore. So a lot of the stories we're getting I think are incomplete or I'm always wishing that there was a follow-up question, even the Call Her Daddies of the world. I'm with Alex Cooper, I'm like, "Ask a followup question.
Doree Shafrir (28:46):
Ask a call question." Yeah, because they're not journalists.
Elise Hu (28:50):
But also just be a little bit more curious. This is how I feel about Rogan. When Rogan had RFK Jr. On, it's like, "Dude, just follow it up."
Allie Jones (28:59):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (29:00):
Where did you get that information, for example? And often that question will lead you to a guy who's on blogger.com still, one guy who's claiming something outlandish.
Allie Jones (29:14):
Right, right. So I think that the podcast boom has really, really changed how celebrities are getting stories out there. And I think it's kind of for the worst for the consumer anyway, because I mean, I think some people just like to watch their favorite celebrity talk and that's enough for them, but I think other people would prefer to have a more complete story and that's not happening as much anymore.
Elise Hu (29:41):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, people love the insight and the analysis that you bring to gossip time though. So what do you feel like is missing and that people are craving that allows you to continue doing what you do?
Allie Jones (29:53):
Yeah. I think people really do want to know like, okay, so So Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey are getting married. Are they really in love?That is the DMs I get. They're like, "Do you think this is real?" I think there's a sense that things can be faked and people are constantly trying to figure out, am I being lied to right now or am I being sold a story? And people really do want to know what is this person like in real life? Is this their real relationship? Is this their real friend? And I think I kind of try to tease out what we can tell about that based on what they're telling us and what we're finding out from other sources. And I think people are kind of endlessly interested in that.
Elise Hu (30:44):
Do you feel like because there are cameras everywhere or people who are listening and watching and posting everywhere, that to be a star today, you have to be less of an asshole? There's fewer asshole celebrities?
Allie Jones (30:59):
That's a really good question. I haven't really thought about this. I think that certainly there have been recent stories about people kind of behaving badly behind the scenes. You heard all the stuff about Ellen when she was kind of ending her show and James Cordon. I think that it probably is harder because people can, if you start yelling in the middle of a restaurant, someone can record you. But I also think that you would be surprised how much doesn't get out as well. I think that sometimes people can hold onto information for a long time. With the whole Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni lawsuit, at the very beginning of that, obviously there was huge backlash to Blake Lively while she was promoting It Ends With Us. Now the court is going to determine whether that was retaliation on his part,y, yada. But there was a TV reporter who held onto an interview she did with Blake Lively for like eight years in which Blake Lively was like kind of rude.
(32:12):
And then she
Doree Shafrir (32:13):
Released
Allie Jones (32:13):
It in the midst of all this backlash. So yeah, I think that there's probably like an unflattering story about every celebrity right now that someone is sitting on and they're just waiting for the right opportunity to
Elise Hu (32:27):
Promote
Allie Jones (32:28):
Themselves by using it.
Elise Hu (32:30):
Gosh, it certainly does not make being famous desirable at all to think that there's landmines everywhere.
Allie Jones (32:38):
No.
Elise Hu (32:39):
But what made me think of this is that there's a sound guy that I work with on this documentary I've been making and he has worked on so many sets with so many people. And a lot of the folks that he worked with were kids who are now adults, like
Doree Shafrir (32:55):
Zendaya
Elise Hu (32:56):
When she was a kid or Bella Thorne when they were on that show together. And he's like, the thing about having cameras everywhere and the kids being on social media and having to be influencers/actors is that generally there's fewer asshole kids because as kids, they're like so used to being on camera all the time and having to be on pretty much all the time that you don't get the former privacy that you had like when the directors yelled cut and you could just turn into a little twerp. And so I wonder- It's
Allie Jones (33:27):
Horrible though. We put these kids to work and then they can't even be rude. There is
Elise Hu (33:33):
Something kind of ... Yeah.
Allie Jones (33:35):
There's something so sad about a child actor to
Elise Hu (33:38):
Me. Yeah. Having to be performative all the time. Yeah.
Allie Jones (33:43):
And then, yeah, I think it's not a great way to grow up. I guess we need children in movies and television
Elise Hu (33:51):
Shows. We've seen the documentaries. Yeah. All right. Before we let you go, what are you consuming that you're really into and what do you feel like is tired or played out?
Allie Jones (34:04):
I think the Strangers Memoir by Bell Burden is really worth your time. It's sort of like gossip adjacent. I really appreciate how willing she was to go there and talking about the financial side of her marriage. I don't know if you guys have read it.
Elise Hu (34:22):
I read it. I just read it. Telling Doree, "You know what? I didn't want to read it because I was like, okay, you grew up on Martha's Vineyard or whatever and I just didn't relate to her upper crust life." But then I thought the actual telling of it was lovely and very complex and multidimensional.
Allie Jones (34:41):
Yeah. And I think it's just an interesting window into sort of like the modern upper class society in New York that I'm not a part of at all, but still exists and is very real. And so that is obviously, it's a bestseller and it's being super hyped, but I would still recommend it.
Elise Hu (35:00):
Okay. And then anything you're like, "Ugh, played out. This is
Allie Jones (35:05):
Tired." Let me think a minute. I think a lot of the stuff actually on Deumoix I feel like is like when people are just reporting that someone was at a restaurant, I'm over that.
Elise Hu (35:22):
What
Allie Jones (35:22):
People
Elise Hu (35:23):
Eat?
Allie Jones (35:24):
Yeah. I think some of the write-ins are just not interesting to me. There's no story behind it.
Elise Hu (35:31):
Thank you so much, Allie Jones, for coming on.
Allie Jones (35:34):
Thank you for having me.
Elise Hu (35:36):
You were fantastic. And how can folks find you?
Allie Jones (35:40):
So my newsletter is called Gossip Time. You can just Google it. It's on Substack. And I'm also on Instagram @aliRileyJones and I post other stuff there.
Doree Shafrir (35:49):
Okay. Amazing. Thank you. All right. That was so lovely. She was a joy. And she has just such a good take on celebrity gossip. It's like her newsletter's just so fun. You know what we forgot
Elise Hu (36:05):
To ask her about though, and I'm really excited about this, is the Devil Wears Prada tour. Because Meryl Streep and Anna Hathaway have been hanging out in Japan and Korea and all over the place together.
Doree Shafrir (36:18):
Well, and Meryl Streep and Anna Winter have
Elise Hu (36:22):
Photo,
Doree Shafrir (36:23):
Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Elise Hu (36:26):
Next time.
Doree Shafrir (36:29):
All right. Well, Elise, last week you said you were going to be present. Do you feel like you were present?
Elise Hu (36:37):
I had some moments. I had
Doree Shafrir (36:38):
Some
Elise Hu (36:38):
Moments that I think became great memories.
Doree Shafrir (36:43):
Oh, that's nice.
Elise Hu (36:45):
Luna just turned nine and we spent spring break in Scottsdale and there's this lake that Rob lives by because he lives part of the time in Arizona. And there's these embankments, obviously as you get closer to the lake. And Luna just wanted to roll down the grassy knolls, just roll down hills. I mean, we did not tell her they were covered with duck poop, just best left unsaid.
Doree Shafrir (37:13):
All right.
Elise Hu (37:14):
But she just had so much free fun just rolling down the hills near the lake. And I thought to myself, next year, she's not going to want to do that anymore. She will have outgrown it. And so I'm really glad that we just took the time to throw the football around and let her roll down grassy knolls and do things like that. Ditto with my other daughter, Issa too. We had some one-on-one time and we went and did nails, just me and her. And so yeah, it was really nice and I'm glad that we got to do that. So this week is another travel week, so I'm going to make my intention fiber.
Doree Shafrir (37:55):
Oh, in honor of Dr. Tricia Pasrisha.
Elise Hu (37:59):
And in honor of my general gut health, but yes.
Doree Shafrir (38:04):
But we did discuss pooping whilst traveling with her. Exactly. I
Elise Hu (38:10):
Love that. Okay. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (38:11):
I'm happy for you and your colon.
Elise Hu (38:13):
Thank you.
Doree Shafrir (38:14):
Thank you so much. So last week, my intention was about hosting because we were hosting a little Passover Seder with one of Henry's friends and his family, who I'm also friends with, and it went great. Went really well. Henry was so happy. He was kind of a nightmare the next day, but that night he was really happy and it was really nice to see him so proud to host. And he was being really sweet with his friend. And also his friend's parents picked him up from school from aftercare, which was awesome and just brought them both to our house. Yeah. Yeah. That makes it so much easier. They're both only children.
Elise Hu (39:02):
Okay.
Doree Shafrir (39:02):
So I think it was nice. She was like, they were so chatty in the car and it was just like, it was very sweet. So it went really, really, really well. So I was very happy about that. That's awesome. Yeah. Okay. And then this week I have a couple potentially fun work things coming up. So just going to try to lean into the fun aspect of it and not get stressed. Cool. Great. Yeah. So I'm excited about that. New tennis season starts this weekend, so that's exciting. There's always a new tennis season around the corner.
Elise Hu (39:43):
That's true. I didn't even know they ended, but yes.
Doree Shafrir (39:48):
They barely end. Right. I mean. So that's always fun. The spring season I think is like the most fun season. Okay, good.
Elise Hu (39:57):
All right. So it's going
Doree Shafrir (39:58):
To be
Elise Hu (39:59):
Sort of like just have fun
Doree Shafrir (40:00):
Is your intention. Just have fun. Yeah. I think just have fun. I mean, it's kind of related I think to your intention from last week, like be present. Just sort of like lean into the presentness of it all.
Elise Hu (40:12):
Love that. Okay.
Doree Shafrir (40:13):
Thank you. All right. Well, thanks everyone for listening. Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Samee Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast. Thanks everyone.
Elise Hu (40:27):
Talk to you soon.
Doree Shafrir (40:28):
Bye.