Mini-Ep 476: From Butt-ne to Back-ne
Doree and Elise answer questions about bacne, airport joggers, and snoring, and listeners weigh in on how to break up with your therapist, hair loss treatments, and content creators with tangible skills.
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Transcript
This episode transcript is AI generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrier.
Elise Hu (00:17):
And I'm Elise Hu and we are just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums and your questions.
Doree Shafrir (00:23):
Yeah, this is a mini episode where we hear from you, we share your comments and your thoughts. We answer your questions to the best of our ability, but please remember, we are podcast hosts, we are not experts, and we always encourage you to seek support first and foremost from a medical and/or mental health professional as needed.
Elise Hu (00:41):
That's right. Though our mental health professionals and our relationships with our mental health professionals have been the topic of last week's show and this week's show, because some of you have called in or written in to respond to one of our questions about how to break up with your therapist when it's time to break up with your therapist. I remember I've definitely ended my relationships with therapists, but not because they smelled of weed.
Doree Shafrir (01:10):
And we're ignoring you. Right. Yeah. We'll get to it in a little bit, but we did actually hear from a therapist about this.
Elise Hu (01:19):
Yeah. I really liked my first therapist in LA. Shout out, Bobby, what's up? Bobby with an I. Bobby with an IE. We always called her Bobby with an I, and then realized, oh wait, it's an IE. And then I ended up referring her to other folks who are still seeing her. And I stopped seeing her I think in 2021. And the reason why was because I had two. At one point I was like, I have too much therapy. What? This is very expensive. Because Bobby is a more traditional CBT, a cognitive behavioral therapist. And I thought that she was helpful, but obviously came from the more sort of traditional school of CBT. And then around COVID, one of my besties here is an ER doctor and Princeton educated, Brown educated. And she was like, "I started seeing a Yungian analyst." This is like old school psychotherapy, like father of psychotherapy time where you sit around and you talk about your dreams.
(02:22)
She's like, "It has returned the poetry to my life." She's like, "I am a hard scientist person, but I'm telling you one or two sessions with this guy and he will make his value known to you. " And she was absolutely right. And I like Jonathan so much. And I think that Jonathan has been so transformative for that midlife passage period of my life.
(02:46)
And that passage is something that Jung talks about a lot. It's part of his general theories about our psyches. Anyway, he was so transformative that I was like, "I'm going to have to say goodbye to Bobby with an eye." And I love Bobby with an eye. And Bobby with an eye was like- Wow. And she felt like such a friend. And we had such a tender relationship with one another that
(03:07)
Three years later, after I stopped seeing her, she showed up in Pasadena, even though she's like in Westwood, she showed up in Pasadena for my book launch. She and her husband both came and I thought that was so dear and lovely. I looked out in the audience and I was like, "Oh my gosh, my old therapist who I haven't seen in like three years." And it was really lovely to see her again. But it's complicated because she's not really a friend. And so I don't carry on with her or anything or know anything about her life. Really, she only knows a lot about mine.
Doree Shafrir (03:44):
Right, right, right, right.
Elise Hu (03:46):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (03:48):
Well, we did hear from a therapist. Actually, I'll read this now since we're on the topic. "Hi, Dora and Elise. Chiming in as a psychologist here regarding the listener question about breaking up with your therapist. It's actually very important to understand why, when, and how therapy ends because all of these things have meaning in the context of your overall therapeutic intervention.
(04:12)
We need to know if you're ending it because you feel you've met your goals or because of financial strain or because it isn't working or because you need a different kind of medical service or because you're avoiding it for anxiety reasons, et cetera. It's all clinically relevant and will determine how a therapist will write up their reports or their notes, how they would approach potentially resuming, whether they would feel ethically obligated to note that termination in this current situation is not indicated. It's not just about the client, it's about our professional legal and ethical obligations in practice. However, it's also my experience that the kinds of mental health professionals who care about termination are the ones crafting their interventions thoughtfully and deliberately, which this caller's therapist isn't.
Doree Shafrir (04:54):
Given
Doree Shafrir (04:54):
That they're a trainee and under supervision, I would actually contact this person's licensed supervisor and provide that feedback directly to them because when you're still a trainee, it's an ideal time to correct bad practices. If they're doing it with this caller, then they're doing it with other clients, and this person should absolutely not be passing the course that this training is a part of. This is egregious enough that it would warrant a fail if they didn't correct it. Wow, good point. Love you lots. And then they end FYI, the therapists in your life are not okay. I can tell you that much.
Elise Hu (05:28):
Yeah, because we mentioned like, God, how are the therapists doing out there because it's so awful.
Doree Shafrir (05:34):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (05:35):
We hear you.
Doree Shafrir (05:36):
All right. On a totally different note, before we take a break, we are just going to get to a voicemail from someone very near and dear to the podcast. Sammy Junio.
Listener Voicemail (05:47):
Hey, Ya'll. It's Samee, longtime producer, first time caller. Shock, I know. I've got a question here. Have we talked about back stuff like exfoliating? Because I've got some things going on back there, and I'm really curious if anybody has any exfoliation tips or anything like that. I have a long-handled pad for lotioning my back, but as far as cleaning it up back there, I've got nothing. Okay. Love you guys. Bye.
Elise Hu (06:22):
Good question. I don't know what y'all have covered in the previous years of this show, so have you taken this on before?
Doree Shafrir (06:29):
There was an ongoing discussion, a long discussion over several episodes about buttony. Butt acne.
Elise Hu (06:38):
Buttonney. Okay.
Doree Shafrir (06:40):
Buttony. I think the general consensus is that you need to be washing with some sort of salicylic acid cleanser or body wash, and those certainly exist. So I would load up your back loofah or whatever it is that you have with some of that cleanser and start using that on your back. Benzoyl peroxide might also be good, just like whatever. I think whatever your skin can kind of tolerate.
Elise Hu (07:16):
So from buttony to backnee.
Doree Shafrir (07:19):
I
Elise Hu (07:20):
Think this is a backney question. They weren't specific, but it could be like ... I have on my arms, it's just genetic. It's, what do you call it? I think it's called keratitis or keratosis pilaris.
Doree Shafrir (07:32):
Keratosis
Elise Hu (07:33):
Polaris.
Doree Shafrir (07:33):
Yeah. I have it on my
Elise Hu (07:34):
Arms. Umps.
Doree Shafrir (07:36):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (07:36):
And there's that lactic acid lotion that's really good for it.
Doree Shafrir (07:42):
It's called amlactin.
Elise Hu (07:43):
Amlactin, yes. And I remember when I was young, like in high school, my dad was a hospital pharmacist and we haven't talked a lot about how my dad's a hospital pharmacist, but my dad's a hospital pharmacist and he was able to just bring it home from the hospital from me because it wasn't over the counter yet at that time, I think. But I love it. I think it is very effective. And then the other thing is, I have those Italy towels they use at the Korean spas. They're like little mitts. They're not myths, they're because there's no fingers or anything, but it's that like really rough scrub stuff that the ladies, the Ajumas use on you at Korean spas to rub off your dead skin cells. And I have a pack of those and I love them. Rob loves them too. My daughters are grossed out by them because they look kind of sad and raggedy in the shower when they share our shower, but I love those too.
(08:36)
So the Italy towels, you can get them on Amazon or common places. And then that Amlactin's pretty good. If we're talking about keratosis polaris. If we're talking about backnee, it sounds like the but knee solutions would apply. I think so too.
Doree Shafrir (08:52):
All right. We are going to take a short break and we will be right back with a range of emails, texts, questions, comments, concerns. So we will be
Elise Hu (09:07):
Right back. Okay. We'll
Doree Shafrir (09:08):
Be right
(09:09)
Back. All right. We are back. And before we get to our emails, just a reminder, you can call or text us at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcast@gmail.com. So please reach out. And our Patreon, there's a lot of bonus content on our Patreon@patreon.com/forever35. So head over there and check it out. And also, if you don't like listening to ads or even bothering to fast forward through them, you can join our Patreon at the $10 level and get ad free episodes. It's a good deal. Just putting that out there. It's a good deal. Elise, do you want to take this first email? It's a listener weighing in on the more than one child conversation.
Listener Voicemail (09:56):
Yeah. Hi, Doree and Elise. Long time, first time here. I felt compelled to write in regarding the number of kids debate. I have two kids, a boy and a girl, and also come from a family of two and have a younger brother. My brother is intellectually disabled, so we don't have the traditional sibling relationship I see and envy with some of my friends. He is an adult now and my parents are still his legal guardians. When they pass away, I will be his guardian. Because of these dynamics, I was scared to have my own children, let alone multiple children, but I'm so happy with my decision. I hit the jackpot with my children and my son and daughter get along incredibly well and have a special and close relationship. I truly believe they will be close for life. As I face down the barrel of aging parents with health concerns and elder care issues, I sometimes wonder what it would be like if I myself were an only child.
(10:39)
That I have a disabled brother who can't help with these things and who instead I need to help out with a number of things certainly complicates matters. At the moment, my parents spent a lot of their time managing his life, but of course they will not be able to do so forever. So basically my point is there are no guarantees in life. You have to make the decision that is right for you and your family about how many children to try for and don't listen to others who are projecting their own values and decisions onto you. Of course, any choice means being clear-eyed that you are taking a chance. I took a chance and I'm thrilled that I did. I could not imagine life without my kids and their special relationship and that is something I never had. Good luck with whatever you decide.
(11:17)
This reminds me of our episode about aging parents and caring for our aging parents that we had with Vanessa Gregoriatis, and she talked about how she's an only child. And so everything is on her. And I do have to say, as my father kind of enters a peer ... He has signs of dementia and as we're all sort of stressed out about it and worried about it and his condition, because it's just going to deteriorate, it has been rather fortifying that my brother and I have each other because when he's panicking, he's like, "Oh my God, somebody needs to make sure dad doesn't have access to his credit card." And it's nice that we can both ... And that we can talk about our other parent. We can talk about our mom with each other and we understand. So when he's in a beef with my mom, he can commiserate with me and I can relate and the other way around.
(12:15)
So that's a good point that hasn't come up in some of our discussions so
Doree Shafrir (12:18):
Far. Yeah. I mean, I think about this all the time with Henry and I'm bummed for future him. I'm like, "I'm sorry, dude." But what are you going to do? All right. Next question on a totally different note. "Hi, I need ideas on how to reduce snoring. My snoring has gotten increasingly worse and it is interrupting the whole house in one way or another. I've tried nose sprays and strips, various pillow positions and been tested for sleep apnea, which I don't have, and yet I just snore on. Any listener advice suggestions? Thank you.
Elise Hu (12:58):
I always assume that snoring and sleep apnea were connected. You can snore without having sleep apnea?
Doree Shafrir (13:05):
Yes, you can. 25 to 50% of adults snore regularly. People who are overweight, men who are middle aged or older, and postmenopausal women are more likely to snore. Snoring isn't always sleep apnea. Research suggests that about half of people who snore loudly have obstructive sleep apnea. The other half do not. Well,
Elise Hu (13:31):
Then our doctors out there, and I know we have many physicians among us in the Forever35 community, call in or record a voice memo and email it in forever35podcast@gmail.com. We want to hear from you. Any snoring advice or solutions, if it is not sleep apnea and you want to stop
Doree Shafrir (13:53):
Snoring. So we'll link to this article I found from the American Medical Association because they have a few tips for non-sleep apnea snoring, one of which is mouth taping. Keeping your mouth closed will help your snoring. There's also like they call oral appliances and you can see a dentist for that. They say snoring strips sometimes work. They say limit alcohol. So, there's a few things that you can try. And I know you did a sleep study, but have you talked about this with any other sort of doctor? Maybe an ENT? I don't know. Who would address this? Listeners- Probably an ESP. Let us know. Okay. Next email. "Hello, Dorian Elise. I wanted to share a not so short comment about something that was said during the most recent casual chat, Teen Girl Tour of New York. Elise, you said something along the lines of, " Content creation or being a content creator is the only job Gen Z has.
(15:03)
"I want to push back on that and ask, is it the only job they have or the only job they want? Our society is facing crisis level shortages in several industries, nurses, anyone, dental hygienists are also in high demand. Typically, this certification is a two-year affordable associate's degree, which you can obtain from many community colleges. A Ford CEO just came out and said they can't hire enough mechanics. Boomers are trying to sell their trade businesses, but the pool of tradespeople is getting smaller plumbers, electricians, masonry workers, carpenters, blacksmiths, and other metal workers, tile workers, even landscapers and house painters who don't necessarily need formal trades training, but some apprenticeship to learn the craft. I understand that not everyone is physically able-bodied to do this kind of work. For those of us who are, it's going to take a while before we have AI bots doing this work for us.
(15:51)
In the meantime, it's meaningful, often very well paying work. I'm a burned out lawyer who's seriously considering entering some sort of trade as a second career. I enjoy refinishing/repurposing old wood furniture. Have you ever wanted to get a couch reupholstered? It's so expensive. Repurposing furniture/refinishing furniture is a way we can be environmentally conscious and make a living. Again, not sexy, look at me content, creation work, but useful, tangible skills. Also, not to go too dark, but for all the people screaming, burn it all down, who's going to rebuild it again? Content creators or people with physical, tangible skills.
Elise Hu (16:24):
Love that. This has been a theme.This has come up in our many episodes before about how you
Doree Shafrir (16:29):
Can
Elise Hu (16:29):
Go to trade school and learn a trade and how so many trades actually need us. Carpentry, welding. And yeah, just to be clear, I don't think all of Gen Z is working in content creation. I think a lot of gen is wanting to be a content creator. There's a shocking stat about how many kids are saying they want to grow up to be a content creator, but that's not easy. The more people who want to do it, the harder it is to become one. So I don't think that's a really promising way forward to say nothing of how much work it is. It's a treadmill. It's a treadmill. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (17:12):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (17:13):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (17:17):
This is a good conversation. All right. We are going to take another short break and we will be right
Elise Hu (17:24):
Back. It looks like we have a hair question. All right. We'll be right back.
Doree Shafrir (17:35):
All right. We are back. Elise, you want to take this one?
Elise Hu (17:39):
All right. I'm going to take this and apologies in advance for butchering any pharmaceutical names. Okay. Drug names. I have some advice for your listener about ... Oh, this is regarding hair loss, about spironolactone and oral minoxidil. My hair really thinned in my late 20s, and I used spironolactone and topical minoxidil for a decade. It stabilized the situation, but I was never that happy with the results. My hair was still very thin. Three years ago, I started the oral minoxidil with the spironolactone, and it made a huge difference. I started on a very small dose, one quarter of a 2.5 milligram tablet, and began seeing real easy to see results in three to six months. I have gradually ramped up the dosage. The doctors say the spironolactone helps counter unwanted body or facial growth. I didn't see any side effects until I started to take a full pill this year, and it's still worth the trade-off for me.
(18:37)
My hair is so much fuller now. I have chunks of new growth. So if you are thinking about it, you could start on a very low dose and see. Dora, you only tried the oral minoxidil, right? Not this other drug?
Doree Shafrir (18:49):
I did not try the spironolactone. I tried ... In the beginning, I was doing the oral and the foam,
(18:58)
And I found the tone to just be too messy. And I didn't think the trade-off was worth it. And I think that the oral has worked really well, and I don't have unwanted body/facial growth. So I didn't ... I've never ... I don't know. Maybe if I did, I would have pursued the spironolactone. She refers to it three different ways, so I'm not sure which is correct. But yeah, I now take the full two and a half tablet. I did anecdotally hear from someone I know who was taking two tablets a day, and she had unwanted facial hair growth.
Elise Hu (19:48):
It sounds like so much more than what you're
Doree Shafrir (19:52):
Taking and
Elise Hu (19:53):
What does this
Doree Shafrir (19:54):
Color start. Yeah, but my hair is so much fuller. I do have chunks of new growth. I can see it because those hairs are not as long as the rest of my hair.
Doree Shafrir (20:02):
And
Doree Shafrir (20:03):
At first you're like, "Oh, did these hairs break?" And then it's like, no, this is new growth. These are new hairs. That's why they're not as long. But yeah, I highly recommend. And again, you can get it covered by your insurance and I think I pay $3 a month for a monthly supply, so go forth. Okay. Last question, which I love this question because I feel like I am perpetually searching for what this listener is asking for.
Elise Hu (20:37):
Okay.
Doree Shafrir (20:37):
Okay. What are we wearing for pants when we fly? I have a pair of joggers that are from a popular fast fashion store. They are a slick material. They are comfortable and have pockets that are deep enough to throw my ID or phone into, but they don't breathe well. When I stand up after sitting for hours on a plane, I feel a little damp and no one wants that. I don't travel often. And when I do, it's just for leisure, but I still like the idea of having pants that I know work for this purpose and I would still prefer affordable options if possible. Thanks so much.
Elise Hu (21:10):
I swear by my Lululemon high rise joggers that I bought 10 years ago and I still travel in, but it feels like it's kind of like that sweat wicking material, not just traditional legging fabric. It kind of has that scuba feel to it. I just don't know if they exist anymore or what the name of it would be, but I do love those joggers and I travel in them frequently. What about you?
Doree Shafrir (21:40):
I have a pair of joggers from Somersalt and I'm looking at their website and a lot of stuff is like very on sale right now. Oh. The ones I have are kind of old, so I don't know if they have the exact ones that I have, but they're just like cotton joggers and they're very comfortable. And oh, I think this might be them, the softest French terry jogger. Now I'm like, is this company going out of business? Some of their stuff is like really cheap and they have like no sizes left of anything. So I don't know. Maybe Somerset, are you okay? Blink, blink once if you're okay. Vory also has really nice joggers.
Elise Hu (22:35):
One more recommendation is Barley. Rob's mom, Susan, got me for Christmas this like pullover, what are they called? The zip?
Doree Shafrir (22:45):
Yeah, the half zips. Yeah, quarter zip or
Elise Hu (22:48):
Half zips. From their like sweatset collection from their ... And I imagine the joggers are the same material and I love it. It's so comfy, really good for those early mornings when I have to be at volleyball tournaments. So the brand is called Varley. I don't know where, if they're stores or if it's online or what, but like them.
Doree Shafrir (23:09):
I have tried their sweatshirts and I thought they were like a really nice heavy quality, not heavy. I felt like they were too heavy, but like if they felt substantial is what I mean. So yes, I think that's a good rug. I have also been intrigued and they're kind of expensive, but the Spanx Air Essentials line has intrigued me, but I have yet to actually pull the trigger on those because they are a little bit expensive, but they look super comfortable. Cool. Cool. All right. So there's a few different options
Elise Hu (23:49):
For you to try
Doree Shafrir (23:50):
There. Few different options. And we would love to hear from listeners about what you all are wearing on plates because like I said, I feel like this is my perpetual white whale. I like the Somersalt joggers, but they're also getting kind of old and I probably need to replace them, so let us know.
Elise Hu (24:11):
Okay.
Doree Shafrir (24:11):
All right. We'll talk to you soon, everybody. Thanks so much for listening. Take care.
Elise Hu (24:15):
Talk to you next time.
Doree Shafrir (24:16):
Bye.