Episode 386: Asking Better Questions with Tonya Mosley
Emmy award-winning journalist and the co-host of Fresh Air Tonya Mosley joins the show to discuss how intrinsic storytelling is to her life, the way leaning into our authentic selves makes for better work, and her pop culture recs of the moment.
Photo Credit: Bria Celest
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Transcript
The transcript for this episode is AI generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:17):
And I'm Elise Hu and we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums. And
Doree Shafrir (00:21):
Today we have one of Elisa's friends on the show.
Elise Hu (00:24):
She is many people's friends. I am very privileged to count her among my friends. It is Tonya Mosley. A name you all are probably familiar with. She is one of the hosts along with Terry Gross of Fresh Air.
(00:42)
Probably heard of it. This is a really great Tonya story, which we don't get into because I didn't learn it until after we had already interviewed her for this very episode, which is she caught wind that in an upcoming Grey's Anatomy episode, a writer on Grey's Anatomy wrote a voiceover of something on the radio. And the way they described the voice was someone in their 30s, Tonya Mosley like. No. Oh my God. And so one of the writers was like, "Why don't we just ask Tonya Mosley to do it? " And so they reached out to Tonya and she got to go on the lot, which is the old general hospital lot and go record a voiceover in a studio there where they tape Grey's Anatomy as Tonya Mosley. And the best part was
Doree Shafrir (01:37):
In the script. Oh,
Elise Hu (01:38):
So funny. She's described as 30s, Tonya Mosley like. And as you all will find out, she is not in her 30s, which we get into in the
Doree Shafrir (01:50):
Conversation. I'm sure she'll be thrilled to have us mentioning that at the top of the show. Sorry, Tonya.
Elise Hu (01:58):
It's so great. Yeah. So that seems like a really fun gig. I find it like one of my pet peeves, the way they depict reporters in television and film, like the way they kind of depict the mob right on the staircase outside the courthouse and everybody's yelling questions. And I guess that that's true in some press gaggles, but we're really a lot more dignified than that. And in fact, sometimes too respectful because I think there have been circumstances in which the press should be more confrontational and we're not. And so I've always thought, oh God, it'd be really cool to be a fake reporter on TV. And I've yet to get to do that. And I guess this situation in Tonya's case is she gets to play herself
Doree Shafrir (02:44):
On TV.
Elise Hu (02:46):
Yes.
Doree Shafrir (02:46):
That is really fun. That is really fun. Yeah. What is new with you, Elise?
Elise Hu (02:52):
I have one life hack that has really transformed my life. It is not free. But I was really at my Nadir with the driving and driving around to activities around the holidays. I mean, it was like that holiday chaos anyway in November and December. But Ava was playing for the school team, playing volleyball for the school team and she was playing club volleyball. And then she decided to choose that club volleyball team, which is down in South Bay, which to me might as well be like a foreign country because it's just so far away emotionally.
Doree Shafrir (03:27):
But
Elise Hu (03:28):
It turns out driving to Gardena was taking an hour on a Wednesday night between 5:00 and 6:00 PM. And then it was really not good for our mother-daughter relationship. We were just fighting and stressed out and I didn't want to be doing it. And she could tell I didn't want to be doing it. And then I thought she was ungrateful and it was just like not enjoyable. So finally out of desperation, I posted on a babysitting group on Facebook, which I haven't ever used for babysitters. And I was like, I know this sounds random, but are you driving age? Are you licensed
Doree Shafrir (04:05):
And
Elise Hu (04:05):
Willing to take a gig in which all you would have to do is drive my daughter down to volleyball on Mondays and Wednesdays.
Doree Shafrir (04:15):
Oh my gosh. Okay.
Elise Hu (04:16):
And I would pay the regular hourly fee for a babysitter plus gas and mileage.
Doree Shafrir (04:22):
Yep.
Elise Hu (04:22):
And I didn't hear back for several weeks. I mean, this was kind of a desperate random thing,
(04:30)
But then a mom reached out to me on Messenger and she was like, "My daughter is a senior in high school, so I don't know if that's younger than what you were looking for, but I assure you, she's a very safe driver. She has a clean driving record. She's in a place in her school year in which she's already applied to a bunch of colleges. And so I feel like this gig could be really good for her." And I was like, great. I didn't even really think about it too much. I was like, "Oh, she's interested? Awesome." So it has fortunately worked out really well and it has been transformative that now there's a high school senior named Lila who comes to our house on Mondays and Wednesdays, picks up Ava, drives her down to South Bay and drops her off and walks her in.
(05:16)
And that's all she has to do. She has to drive her down, walk her in. And Ava loves it because now she has her high school friend and they talk about Brandy Melville and boys and drinks that they like, like fun drinks that they like and whatever trend stuff is going on together because they're both teenagers. I mean, they're separated by five years, but Ava really likes her and she has a good time chatting. And then I told Laila- But
Doree Shafrir (05:43):
That's so cool.
Elise Hu (05:43):
Yeah. And Lila's like, "I really enjoy my conversations with Ava too." I've been telling her about college and the whole college application process and all those things. So I'm sort of like, "This is great." And it's been so much better. I'm pleased to report.
Doree Shafrir (05:56):
Oh my gosh.
Elise Hu (05:58):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (05:59):
What a great solution you found.
Elise Hu (06:01):
Yeah. I mean, like I said, it's not free. I'd rather not have to do this, but I feel like it's money well spent. Totally. And for my sanity and ... For your sanity.
Doree Shafrir (06:14):
Can't put a price on your sanity, Elise. That's right. That's
Elise Hu (06:18):
Right. Rob was like, "Something has to give here because you're getting very volatile."
Doree Shafrir (06:24):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (06:25):
And I'm already dramatic. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. So that's been really good. And I was just reflecting on things that I was grateful for today and Lila is one of them. What about you? What's going on? What are you looking forward to? Anything you're excited about?
Doree Shafrir (06:45):
I got to see you today in person, so that was fun.
Elise Hu (06:48):
Yeah, that was fun. We forgot to mention that.
Doree Shafrir (06:52):
Yeah. I feel like I see you so much on Riverside, what we used to record that I forget that it's fun to hang out in person.
Elise Hu (07:03):
Yeah. Yeah. I really need to start playing tennis again. And if I feel good about it, we should just start hitting. I just don't want it to be boring for you where we're just picking up balls the whole time because that's so fun. I doubt it. I doubt it. It would be fun to get out there and just hit some balls and chat
Doree Shafrir (07:22):
And catch
Elise Hu (07:22):
Up too.
Doree Shafrir (07:23):
Anytime. I am always down for more
Elise Hu (07:26):
Balls. Yeah. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (07:31):
Well, should we introduce our guest?
Elise Hu (07:35):
Yes. I will be happy to do the honors. Tonya Mosley is an Emmy award-winning journalist and the co-host of Fresh Air. Previously, she was the co-host of NPR's midday program here and now where she led daily coverage during the Trump administration, the pandemic, and the racial reckoning of 2021. On January 6th, 2021, she hosted live NPR special coverage of the insurrection as it was happening. Before radio, Mosley created award-winning news features and long-form television programming as a producer, reporter, anchor, and correspondent for various outlets, including NBC and Al Jazeera America. She is also the creator and host of the award-winning podcast, Truth Be Told, and she has a name. She lives here in Los Angeles. She is such a delight to talk to. She will share some of her skincare secrets and product faves all coming up in our conversation.
Doree Shafrir (08:32):
And before we get to Tonya, just a reminder that our website is forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mention on the show. We are on Instagram at Forever35 podcast and our Patreon where we have so much great bonus content, our weekly casual chats, our monthly pop culture and entertainment recommendation episodes, our Patreon chat, our Forever35 questionnaire. And of course, at the $10 level, we have ad free episodes and you get your name right on the podcast each month as a thank you. I mean, come on. And that is at patreon.com/forever35. We have our favorite products at shopmy.us/forever35. Oh, and I forgot to mention at our Patreon, we also have our newsletter. So you can get that at the free tier on our Patreon. Again, patreon.com/forever35. You can call or text us at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcast@gmail.com. And we're going to take a little break and then we will get to Tonya.
(09:38)
All
Elise Hu (09:38):
Right. We'll be right back.
Doree Shafrir (09:46):
Welcome to Forever35, Tonya. It's so nice to have you here.
Tonya Mosley (09:50):
So nice to be here, Doree and Elise. This is going
Doree Shafrir (09:54):
To be fun. Before we get into all the questions that we have for you, we always start off by asking our guests about a self-care practice that they have. So we are wondering, is there anything that you do that you would consider self-care?
Tonya Mosley (10:09):
I buy too many facial care products and makeup products. Sephora sees me coming. They're like, "Here she comes. Come on in. " I have so many lip glosses. And what's crazy is today I came into work and I only had two or three. And so in preparing for this, I thought, oh, I don't have my choices to really get them. I only have
Elise Hu (10:30):
Three.
Tonya Mosley (10:31):
Right. These might not give me the color I want, but yeah, I love facial care. I've just really gotten into it. And more recently, I have gotten into Korean facial care.
Elise Hu (10:42):
Yeah, girl.
Tonya Mosley (10:43):
Yes.
Elise Hu (10:44):
Tell us what you're into. Are there any hero products on your counter?
Tonya Mosley (10:50):
Well, I've started to use something called MediCube. And are you familiar with MediQube?
Elise Hu (10:54):
Medicube, all of the ... The Koreans domestically love MediCube. Anytime I have friends from Korea come and mule me things, they're bringing me Medi-Cube stuff.
Tonya Mosley (11:05):
What's also amazing about Medi-Cube is that the packaging is so good. How come American products aren't packaged this way? There's even a little ... They have this little finger thing that you can get all of the pads out of. You don't have to put your fingers in it. It's like it's just packaged so well. So I love all Medicu products. I love Paula's choice products. They really work well. My face is really oily, which I hear is going to be helpful for me as I age, but it really helps bring that down for me. So those are my two.
Elise Hu (11:37):
Tonya, are we allowed to say that it's a big birthday year for you this year? Really,
Tonya Mosley (11:42):
Elise? Okay. We can cut it out. That's fine. Okay. Fine. All right. We'll cut it in post. All right. No, no, no. I will say, if you don't want to cut this in post, I'm not going to say it out loud, but I will say what you witnessed, because I just want to tell the audience. So I was hanging out with Elise and some other really great friends recently, and a good friend of ours just had her big 50th celebration. And so yeah, I'll just say it. I'll be 50 this year. And it was the first time that I said aloud in front of a group of people that I was going to be turning 50. And now I'm saying it here.
Elise Hu (12:21):
Yes. You are so much more, Tonya, than you have ever been before. Yo've really come into yourself. You know yourself, you know what your boundaries are. Obviously you're glowing. You look excellent, but obviously that's like secondary to the fact that I think you've really stepped into yourself. And just as your friend, I love that for you. And it's something to celebrate as you turn this big milestone birthday.
Tonya Mosley (12:48):
I appreciate it. And I'm getting there. That's the thing about it. That's why I said to you guys, I really revealed that I am turning 50. I think that if you pay attention and you look at the amount of experience I have, you can put two and two together like, "Oh, I didn't start when I was 12."
Doree Shafrir (13:05):
Well, I will say, I'm not shocked to hear that you are into Sephora and Korean skincare because you are literally glowing. I can see it.
Elise Hu (13:13):
Truly.
Doree Shafrir (13:14):
I'm telling you it's the oil. It's the
Tonya Mosley (13:15):
Oily skin, but I appreciate it.
Elise Hu (13:17):
And Tonya, we wanted to have you on because A, you're always asking the questions. And so I thought it would be fun to have you get to be on the other side of the mic and answer the questions. And also, as I was talking to Doree as we were prepping and before we came on, you're one of my most deeply curious and soulful friends. You're very introspective. And so we are all going through this time where it feels like this time of relentless chaos and our listeners have called in sort of asking for what we're doing to cope. They're talking about finding micro joys and this is a good space for it. So we just want to know how you are coping and what are you doing to kind of get through during this time, this really tilt to world time to be alive.
Tonya Mosley (14:06):
I appreciate that, Elise. It's something that I think a lot about too. And something came to me a few months ago when I was feeling tremendous amount of angst. I mean, I think all of us have had those moments where we feel just really overwhelmed. And when I feel really overwhelmed, my body almost shuts down where I just need to get under the covers and have a Saturday where I'm just hanging out in bed all day, to be honest. But then I realized what makes me feel better is to be outward, to be with people, to give to people, to hear from other people. That is what brings me life, what brings me joy. And so I decided to put together this thing that I've been doing now for a few weeks and it really has been wonderful. So I love to have my kids volunteer and we do a lot of volunteer stuff, but I also thought it would be really nice to use a thing that I love the most, which is storytelling to help other people tell their stories.
(15:03)
So I started this salon where it's a virtual salon and it's free. And I put the call out to folks and I just said, "If you're a storyteller of any kind and you want to talk stories, let's get together once a week on a Zoom and let's just talk it out. " And I got such a huge response that now it has become something that's a little more formalized where I have cohorts. And for six weeks, I'm meeting with one cohort and then in another six weeks I'll do that. And these are folks from all over the world, not just- That's crazy. California or the country, it's the world. And all of them are not journalists. In fact, they're just like a handful of journalists among them. These are people who have really important jobs, police officers, nurses, doctors. There's one woman who is a social worker and we talked about the ways that her work really is storytelling.
(15:51)
She has to go out and interpret what is happening with her clients
Tonya Mosley (15:55):
And
Tonya Mosley (15:55):
Then she has to write reports and she has to be accurate in those reports. It is a matter of record. And so we talked a little bit about that and we're going to be deepening her practice of writing outside of her work, which brings her a lot of freedom and joy, but it's just been so wonderful to interact with people and their lives in that way. It's something that I miss as a host that I don't get to do. When I was a journalist or reporter out in the field, I had this connective tissue with people in a more profound way. And so it's helped me tremendously in this time to just be thinking about other people.
Elise Hu (16:31):
Yeah. Yeah.
Tonya Mosley (16:32):
There were two things that happened that really brought this to me. One was, we all get called to talk with people or young people or young journalists. And so I do a lot of these talks where I'm brought in and I talk with college students or people who are part of a fellowship. And I had done one with the National Press Association and it was so good. I mean, meaning that not just the conversation I had with them, but what they gave back to me and what they were sharing about their lives. I left that call feeling so energized and hopeful. And I said, "I just want to feel more of that. And I also want to be able to give my knowledge. Oh wait, like, okay, I'm turning 50. So I have some things that I can share." So I thought, why not use that?
(17:19)
And also, I come from a tradition of that. So I come from a family of really mission driven people. My mother was a social worker. My grandmother was a nurse practitioner and my mom actually would do these things where she would just open her door and call out the neighborhood kids to come in the house and she would have story time with them. And these weren't just like young kids. These were like big old teenagers sometimes riding their bikes past our home and they would come in and like she might have a little snack, but we'd really dialogue over a piece of literature. And I love that experience. And I also realized like it's such a low touch point for us to do that for each other, to build community in these spontaneous ways. And so it was the spontaneity of being able to use these platforms we have of just getting on there and saying, "Hey, let's get together." Yeah, that was kind of the impetus for it.
Doree Shafrir (18:16):
Yeah. Fantastic. Is that something that you do with your children as well?
Tonya Mosley (18:22):
Yeah. They listen to me if they want to. No, we do a lot of like talking, story time, that kind of stuff. Of course, I'm like that kind of parent. But it's funny you mentioned that, Doree, because last night I said to my son who's almost 13, I have these cards where they're like teen cards where you ask your teens a question and start a dialogue. And I said to him, "You've seen those." And I asked him, "Do you want to do some of those?" And he said, "No, I just want to chill, mom." He thought it was work. Yeah, he thinks of that as work. I said, "This is us chilling getting to know each other." So I mean, to answer your question, Doree, sometimes it works.
Doree Shafrir (19:08):
Right. But you know what? He probably, even though he can't express it, I'm sure he appreciates that you seek out that connection.
Tonya Mosley (19:17):
I'm sure it'll come back to him in the same way that we felt about the things our parents
Elise Hu (19:20):
Did. Yeah,
Doree Shafrir (19:21):
Exactly.
Tonya Mosley (19:22):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (19:22):
Yeah. Okay. Well, on this topic of asking questions, you have been co-hosting Fresh Air along with Terry Gross for a few years now. When did you start at- Two
Tonya Mosley (19:32):
Years. So
Elise Hu (19:32):
Two and a half
Tonya Mosley (19:33):
Years.
Elise Hu (19:33):
Okay. Two and a half years now.
Tonya Mosley (19:34):
Wow.
Elise Hu (19:35):
Time flies. I was curious how you think you've grown in the role, because obviously it's not your first rodeo. You've hosted a lot of shows before and have been a journalist for your entire adult life, but obviously Fresh Air is unique in its fervent, devoted audience, and then also how deep the conversations can go when you spend time with these cultural or I guess culture makers. So how do you feel like you have grown or learned or changed or expanded in the last two and a half years in this role?
Tonya Mosley (20:09):
Oh my gosh, so many different ways, but I'm going to share something with you that will sound a little woo-woo, but I'm going to share there anyway. Because I am a woo-woo person. Yeah, me too. There was something that happened around six months into the job where I realized, wow, every person that I'm talking to is coming to me with a lesson or information that is applicable to what I need in my life right in that moment.
(20:38)
And it started to happen almost with every single interview. And then I realized, okay, well, two things. Number one, Terry and I choose who we talk to. So even on a subconscious level, when I'm reading a piece of literature or someone's book or someone's piece of art through their movie or a television show, I'm seeking out things that I'm interested in, but that I also know the audience might like too, but really the exercise that I learned from Terry is Terry talks to people that she's super fascinated about because you don't want to spend all that time with folks that you're just not really interested in their work. So on one hand, that makes sense that everything that comes to me, these conversations I'm gaining something from, but on a more profound level, they're oftentimes offering me a solution to a challenge that I am having in my own life or a block and understanding that I have come to through their work and their art.
(21:33)
And that's just been really profound to me. And so I've learned to lean into that more, to lean into my instincts more, even in the conversations. And I've found that, and I know you both are really good interviewers, so you're probably going to ask me for an example of this. So I will come up with one as I'm talking, but there have been times where I have held back and asked questions that I felt like the audience wants to know. And I realize though, the breakthrough comes in asking the things that I really want to know. Oftentimes the questions that I ask that might come from a very personal place are the questions that resonate deeply with the audience, that I hear the most feedback that, "Oh, that part where you went here, that reminds me of my life. And here's how I am bringing that to me myself." That is the driveway moment.
(22:26)
And those are the things that I've really grown in and really, I mean, to put that more pointly, that I have really come into and grown as an interviewer on this show to understand.
Doree Shafrir (22:37):
I'm wondering what you feel like you and Terry have learned from each other.
Tonya Mosley (22:42):
Oh, wow. I can say from my point of view, what I have learned from Terry is to lean into who I am. And I say that because once I was on the inside and I got to see how the sausage was made, I understood that the show, the magic of the show, the magic of fresh air for the last 50 years has been because you are inside of Terry's mind, you are following her curiosities, you're following her taste, and that is what you are there for. Now, I'll be frank, it is a challenge to step into that only because of that reason, because now I am a new property, but truly, in order for me to be the best at this job, I have to do that too. I can't really come into it and be Terry Light. I can't come into it trying to choose things that I know, oh, the sensibility of this show, which is really Terry, here are the pieces of art or literature that she loves, then I wouldn't be giving the audience truly what they come to Fresh Air for.
(23:48)
Now, that means that there is a segment of the audience that feels, and it's just natural that, "Hey, this is not what I come here for.
Tonya Mosley (23:57):
"
Tonya Mosley (23:57):
But what I have found over the last few years is that there is a large audience that is actually coming to the table because of what I bring. And more recently, I've gotten a lot of feedback from people who say, "I love Terry and now I realize I love you too." And that's a beautiful thing to know that there's space.
Elise Hu (24:18):
Yeah. I have to ask for the example then, where do you feel like you have added your special Tonya sensibility and taste to the show in a way that touched your life at the exact same time that you needed it?
Tonya Mosley (24:35):
Oh gosh, there are just so many. I'm doing an interview almost every day or every other day, but I just recently interviewed Kiara Hutties who wrote In the Heights and she is a Pulitzer Prize winning playwright and she just wrote her new novel, The White Hot, which is about a mother who chooses to leave her child to go on a journey of enlightenment. Kiara is such a talented writer. I mean, it's the type of writing that every sentence on the page, you just kind of gasp like, "Oh, this is beautiful. You're bringing language to something." But what she brings language to is really something that we only afford men, and that is the exploration of themselves to be the journeyman, to search out in the world. And we're often pinned in by motherhood or that feeling, even though we all love what we are and being a mother.
(25:36)
And I realized that she had given me language to something that I couldn't quite articulate or would almost feel afraid to articulate. And that is, as I look at this, this is going to be like a theme throughout the show. As I enter my 50th year, I should have the right to explore who I am outside of the bounds of my identities as a mother, as a black person, as a woman even, but as a human being. And it was reading her work that brought me closer to that for myself, but it also allowed me in the conversation with her to go to places that I could go as someone who holds those identities, to really go deeper into her psyche. As she sat down to write this story that, I mean, for all intents and purposes, people would think of this woman as a villain.
(26:24)
This is sacrilegious that you would take this step and leave your child to go try to find yourself.
Elise Hu (26:32):
Though men get to do it in literature and in art commonly, right? It's like the dad took off. We don't know where he is.
Tonya Mosley (26:39):
Absolutely. Right, right. Absolutely.
Elise Hu (26:42):
Have there been interviews that you look back on over the last few years or even before that stand out just because you liked the person a lot? I know you can't really dish the opposite. You don't have to tell us who you don't like, but who are some people who you've just really enjoyed?
Tonya Mosley (27:02):
So many people. I'll say the great thing is I enjoy more people than not enjoy.
Elise Hu (27:09):
Yeah.
Tonya Mosley (27:09):
I will say that. And I think I really go into this type of interviewing, understanding that ... It takes a lot to say, I'm going to sit down and talk with somebody for 90 minutes and I don't know where they're going to take me and we might go to some really deep places and we're also going to talk about my personal life, just not my work stuff. So I hold that. I know it's a very sacred place to be in. And so I hold it as such when I step into the conversations. And if I'm ever meeting somebody who I don't feel like really delivers in that way, I also understand that too. It doesn't help me for the interview, but look, this is a negotiation.
Doree Shafrir (27:53):
So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.
Elise Hu (28:05):
This is a question that I truly don't know the answer to because Fresh Air is its own independent show and it's separate from any of the NPR shows I've worked on. Do you ever spike interviews after the fact?
Tonya Mosley (28:15):
What do you mean
Elise Hu (28:16):
By spite? Like you interview the person and then you don't air it.
Tonya Mosley (28:19):
Ooh, that has never happened to me, but I'm sure it has happened in Fresh Air's 50-year history. In fact, I am aware of a few.
Elise Hu (28:26):
Yeah.
Tonya Mosley (28:27):
So that's a really good question. No, I'm lying. Not on Fresh Air, but there have been times where I've interviewed people and I'm like, "Whoa, okay." That ain't it. Oh, well, that's not it.
Doree Shafrir (28:41):
Yeah.
Tonya Mosley (28:41):
But to answer your question about people that I just genuinely liked, you and I talked about this before, but I absolutely adore Walton Goggins. I mean ... You and
Elise Hu (28:53):
Walton Goggins. The reason why I've talked about this before with Tonya is because I listened to that interview in my car and I'm like, "Man, I think they like each other. They seem like they're friends." He's really opening up to her.
Tonya Mosley (29:07):
I loved him and I will say he loved me. I mean, in the middle of the interview, he actually stopped and said, "What a joy this is. I just want to tell you this has been a joy." And so sometimes that happens. I think he's a charismatic guy, but I also think some people just you click with and you could see being a homie too. That happens often.
Elise Hu (29:31):
Yeah. I also liked your interview with the Supreme Court Justice, Kentanji Brown Jackson.
Tonya Mosley (29:37):
Yes.
Elise Hu (29:38):
She seems like she would be a fun hang. I mean, I guess we never get to hang out with Supreme Court justices, so it's a pipe dream, but ...
Tonya Mosley (29:47):
Elise, that's one that I wish I could do over. Why? Well, first off, the interview, it was such high stakes because she is a Supreme Court justice. She is only going to talk a few Two times in her life, and one of them is with a memoir. She's putting that out as the record and she'll talk about it and she'll never talk about it again. And so I knew that high stakes of it, I was also in DC. I traveled there to interview her and so we were in the same space together. All of her people were there. She had just done an interview right before me and she was doing one right after me. And so I just kind of felt like, oh, when I sat down, there's just a lot riding here.
Tonya Mosley (30:30):
But
Tonya Mosley (30:31):
I think just since I've done it, I have grown in such a way where I think I would've been able to handle that a little bit better and maybe even ground it myself so that we can have more of that opening. She's only going to go as far as she wants to go, but I think you're right. She would be a great hang. And I think she wanted that opportunity to be able to show those parts of herself. And I think I showed a little bit, but I think I was also kind of nervous.
Elise Hu (30:58):
Somebody told me she was a theater kid or something.
Tonya Mosley (31:01):
Yeah. Yeah, she was. Big in theater. I know. Theater kids are also earnest.
Doree Shafrir (31:07):
Yes.
Tonya Mosley (31:07):
And I think that there's an earnestness to her and to many people I know who've been in theater about their beliefs, about how they walk through the world.
Elise Hu (31:18):
Tonya, I wanted to ask you about the workplace since we're kind of reflecting now that you are on the cusp of your birthday or at the start of your birthday year. Yes. Because we have both been women of color coming up in television newsrooms where you have to kind of contort yourself to a bunch of invisible rules and then also public media where you also have to sort of accommodate a bunch of invisible rules. What do you think, what are some beliefs or ways of being at work and ways of showing up at work you have now let go of in order to make more of an impact and show up as more of your authentic self?
Tonya Mosley (32:04):
Oh, man. I think I might have said even early on in my early 20s, "Oh, I'm coming as myself. I'm stepping into these workplaces as myself." But I think that really, you're a few years younger than me, but I really came up in a family and in a world where it was just expected that you would have on two selves, that you would be your home self and then you'd be your work self. And it wasn't really until I started having younger colleagues, truly like millennials and Gen Zs who started to show me that I'm bringing all myself to the table. This is who I am. And I'll say in the beginning, it felt kind of unnerving to see that in the workplace. I might have been one of those maybe a decade ago who was like, "Come on now, you really need to button it up a little bit or you need to at least perform, pretend." But I will say to my credit, there has always been a part of me that has wanted to be my authentic self as a black woman in particular, because I wanted you to understand that I have come into this industry to do journalism, but really to write the record.
(33:20)
I chose this career because I wanted to show a truer version of who we are. And so to do that, I had to bring a sense of authenticity when I'm out in the field, when I'm talking to people, when I'm thinking about stories and construction. But as far as like how I behave within corporate spaces, it's something I'm really contending with even to this day at least. Maybe this 50th year will also be the year that I deconstruct that as I try to come into a fuller sense of who I am and being my full self. It's funny that you brought up local television or brought up television and then brought up public media. I will say when I got to public media, I thought, "Oh, here's where I could really be my true self," because some of the same parameters aren't the same here.
(34:10)
Some of the things they required of me in commercial news, they don't care about that. And I was really relieved by that, but then I understood there were a whole construction of other things that I was coming up against. I was like, "Oh wait, there's
Elise Hu (34:23):
A whole nother set of rules here."
Tonya Mosley (34:25):
Yeah. And I think my age played a part though in me still feeling like I could bring myself and push. I just had the sophistication to kind of work through things in a way. But yeah, it's still something I'm deconstructing from myself for sure.
Doree Shafrir (34:39):
What do you feel like is next for you career wise? Is fresh air kind of the pinnacle for you or do you feel like you have sort of like unfinished business in public radio or elsewhere?
Elise Hu (34:51):
Are you going to come back on forever 35 to talk about your book? I
Tonya Mosley (34:54):
Know. See, this is why I don't want to tell people I'm turning 50 because they start to think like I'm coming on the down. So
Elise Hu (35:01):
Is this- No. Are you? No. We do not believe that. We are the school of peak when
Doree Shafrir (35:05):
You're 90 and then die. Yes. Yeah, I did. That was not the implication. It was more like, I mean, to me, fresh air is like, I don't know, where do you go from there? But just because that feels like such an amazing place to be, but I'm wondering, how do you feel?
Tonya Mosley (35:28):
Well, I'm just a storyteller through and through. A lot of folks who come into journalism suffer from wonderlust. It's part of what makes the job work because every day it's something new, every week, every year you're going here, you're going there. You can fulfill all of that.
Tonya Mosley (35:45):
And
Tonya Mosley (35:46):
Fresh air fulfills so much for me because I have the ability to talk to anybody I want. But they know from the moment that I started there, I consider myself a holistic storyteller. I'm a documentarian. I am a writer. I want to be able to tell the story and the mechanism and the medium where it can have its most potency and power. And sometimes that means a platform like Fresh Air, but then there are all of these other platforms. I mean, I think my main concern right now is making certain that I'm actually reaching the people that the conversations I want to have and I'm having, I know they would be enriched and benefited from. And so that doesn't necessarily mean just talking to the radio audience on fresh air. It can mean lots of different ways. And that includes that platform, but I think I also am thinking in those other ways.
(36:44)
And I'm also just a creative. So I want to write beautiful sentences and shoot beautiful scenes and tell stories of people and where they are. Those are the things that I think I was brought here to do.
Doree Shafrir (37:01):
I love that.
Elise Hu (37:01):
Okay. I don't want to crib too much from Ezra Klein on this, but because you consume so much culture, you read so many books, you listen to so much music and podcasts and see so much film and television. What do you want to recommend that's out there that you love? If you had to do a top three, top five in the world of culture, what do you tell people or what do you recommend to people?
Tonya Mosley (37:31):
So oftentimes this comes down. I'm often recommending based on like the last few things that I saw- Recency
Elise Hu (37:37):
Bias. Yeah.
Tonya Mosley (37:38):
Heated
Elise Hu (37:38):
Rivalry.
Tonya Mosley (37:41):
Which I started watching because of you. I started watching.
Elise Hu (37:45):
I made a tuna melt today, which all the heated rivalry stands out their window. Exactly
Tonya Mosley (37:51):
What that
Elise Hu (37:52):
Means. Right. They brought back tuna melts and made them sexy again. So I was like, "I'm going to make a tuna melt." Anyway,
Tonya Mosley (37:57):
Go ahead. Wait, and I told my daughter who's 18, I have to say, I said, "I saw Elise and she was like, Tonya, how could you have not seen that? Yeah, come on. It's part of the culture. Come on. And she was like, I mean, kind of, yeah. How could it be you're too late on it? But anyway,
(38:12)
No, some art and culture, like I can recommend books. I mentioned The White Hot. I think that the White Hot, it's a thin novel. Get it. You have to get it. You will read it in one sitting. It's absolutely amazing. There's this recent book by Heather Ann Thompson, Fear and Fury. And I think if you care about being an American, you should read it. It is absolute stunning work. She's a historian and it is about the 80s and how the 80s, Reagan era 80s set the stage for where we are now. And a lot of these through lines, you know, but she puts it in such a way and she writes it with such clarity and research that it will give you language to have the conversation moving forward. If I'm thinking about some things recently that I have watched ... Oh, Sarat. Sarat is an international movie that was filmed in Morocco and it's stunning.
(39:15)
It's heartbreaking. It doesn't hold any of the conventions of storytelling that you expect, but it arrives at a conclusion that will leave you thinking about it for days and wanting to have conversations with people about it. And I feel frustrated every time I bring it up and I see a face like, oh, I don't know because I really want to talk about it.
Elise Hu (39:36):
How did this come to you? Did it get pitched to you? How did you get to see Surah?
Tonya Mosley (39:40):
Yeah, it was pitched to me. And oftentimes during award seasons, you will get invitations to go see films because they're gearing up for the awards. And so I take advantage, especially of the international films because we don't typically have a lot of those on the show. And I just want to know when I'm watching the Oscars and this one international film sweeps. I want to be able to be a part of the conversation and know
Elise Hu (40:05):
It. Yeah. But Tonya, thank you so much for spending so much of your afternoon and giving us your energy and your recommendations. It's been so lovely to have this conversation.
Tonya Mosley (40:17):
Thank you guys, Doree. And Elise, this has been a pleasure to talk to you.
Doree Shafrir (40:24):
Well, that was fun to get to talk to Tonya.
Elise Hu (40:27):
She's
Doree Shafrir (40:27):
Great. She's great. Thank you, Tony. She's really great. Elise, how did it go with drinking water? Are you hydrated?
Elise Hu (40:39):
Better at night. I have been good about finishing an entire bottle of water, making sure that I have finished a bottle of water by the time I go to bed. But then I have to get up in the middle of the night sometimes. And I like to sleep through the night. I don't want
Elise Hu (40:55):
To
Elise Hu (40:56):
Do that. So I need to find the right time to be having all this water that I'm having, probably first thing in the morning, but that could be an idea.
Doree Shafrir (41:09):
Okay. Okay. What do you have going on this week?
Elise Hu (41:13):
This week, what would be a good intention? I did not set an intention to set an intention before we started recording. But one thing that I noticed, especially because there was a little travel during the holidays is that I haven't taken very good care of my plants. I lost an orchid, RIP, one of my many orchids. I lost one over the break. And then some of my other plants, they have a way of letting you know that they're not happy. And so my plants are kind of mad at me, and so I'm working on that. I'm going to do some plant care. And there was a study that actually showed you should be talking to your plants. I don't know if it's because of the CO2 or what, so I'm going to try and just let them know that I know they exist, but plant care is going to be my intention for the week.
Doree Shafrir (42:02):
Okay. What
Elise Hu (42:04):
About you? That's a
Doree Shafrir (42:04):
Good one. That's a good
Elise Hu (42:06):
One. Tell us about
Doree Shafrir (42:07):
... Yeah. Well, my intention last week was to have fun in the desert and I did. I had fun in the desert and our team did really well. We were undefeated. We missed making the semifinals by one line of a match. I personally won my match and it was a very satisfying win. And just generally, it was nice to be with the team and hang out. And it was a really nice, really nice weekend. Good. This week, I have a couple things that I'm sort of waiting to hear about, and I'm going to just try not to get too stressed about them.
Elise Hu (42:52):
Yeah. So just being still.
Doree Shafrir (42:54):
Yeah, just being present and not fixating on the past or the future too much and being like ... It's hard to be okay with uncertainty. I find that very difficult, but going to try to be as okay with uncertainty as I can.
Elise Hu (43:17):
That's a great intention.
Doree Shafrir (43:18):
Thank you. Thank you so much. Listeners, thank you so much for being here with us. And just a reminder that Forever35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir, and Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Sammee Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partners, ACAST. Thanks everybody. Talk to you next time. Bye.