Mini-Ep 377: The Elephant in the Grey Lady Shaped Room
Kate and Doree go up against the NY Times as advice givers! Plus, they hear from listeners about their Vaseline Product Recall episode and how to not invite guests to your wedding.
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Transcript
Kate: Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast all about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Kate Spencer.
Doree: And I'm Doree Shafrir.
Kate: And we're not experts.
Doree: We're not, but we're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: And this here is a mini episode where we hear from you, the listeners, we share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability.
Doree: Please remember, we are podcast hosts, were not experts, and we always encourage you to seek support first and foremost from a medical and or mental health professional as needed.
Kate: But of course, if you would like to reach us, please do leave us a voicemail or send us a text message at (781) 591-0390 or send us an email at Forever35podcast@gmail.com
Doree: And you can visit our website Forever35podcast.com. For links to everything we mentioned on the show, we are on Instagram @Forever35podcast. The Forever35 Facebook group is poppin at facebook.com/groups/Forever35podcast. The password is serums. You can sign up for our newsletter at Forever35podcast.com/newsletter and shop our favorite products at shopmy.us/forever35.
Kate: Doree, I did also just want to make sure that we mentioned that we are continuing our collaboration with the States project and our giving circle. You might recall in the fall of 2022, how much money you amazing podcast listeners help us raise for our giving circle, which helped flip the Pennsylvania House.
Doree: I mean NBD, Nbd.
Kate: Blew my mind. I mean, truly. What a way to make an impact team.
Doree: Well, I know it's like one of those, sorry, it, but no, it's just one of those things that if I'm ever feeling down, oh, I just think about how we raised like $50,000
Kate: From small donations.
Doree: From small donations from our podcast listeners like
Kate: You did that freaking you all did that.
Doree: Amazing.
Kate: So we love the work that the State's project does, and we are going to be working to raise more funds for the great state of Virginia because Virginia needs our help in the Virginia State Senate. The right wing is just two seats away from the majority, and then the house of delegate, they hold the majority by two seats. Now, if the power shifts in the Senate, there would be a new right wing trifecta in Virginia. And let me tell you, I don't want that and neither does Doree.
Doree: No, I don't.
Kate: Because what that would mean is the possibility of limiting access to abortion in the state of Virginia, removing protections for Virginia's clean air and water preventing teachers from teaching about Martin Luther King Jr. I mean, we all see what the fuck is happening out there and we don't like it.
Doree: No, we don't. We don't like it for Virginia. We don't like it for the rest of us.
Kate: No. So we're here to do something about it. So Doree and I have donated a thousand dollars to get our efforts in Virginia rolling. Please donate whatever you can to our Virginia giving circle to help flip the state. We appreciate you. We are so motivated and excited to be doing this again. So thank you all so much for supporting our Pennsylvania Giving Circle and for hopefully supporting this one we're doing for Virginia.
Doree: Yes. So please do head on over. The link is in our show notes. The link is in our show notes. We have a $20,000 goal.
Kate: Let's do this
Doree: As we're recording at almost 8,000.
Kate: What?
Doree: Yeah, I know. Yeah.
Kate: What is this magic that this audience facilitates
Doree: And we've in total, we've raised over $60,000. That includes all the money we raised for Pennsylvania and the money that we are raising for Virginia, which is pretty freaking cool. And hopefully we get to that $20,000 goal. We kept having to raise our goal for Pennsylvania, which was cool.
Kate: Yeah,
Doree: I love raising a goal.
Kate: I know you do. You're a big goal raiser.
Doree: I love raising goals. Okay,
Kate: Here's a question for you. Did you ever have the goal of someone reaching out to our podcast with a question and then also reaching out to the New York Times social cues column? Was that ever your goal? Because we've accomplished that
Doree: You know, Sometimes goals happen after the fact,
Kate: Right? It happens and you're like, oh, I didn't know that was going to be my goal. Yes. But now it is. And I checked it off.
Doree: Exactly. Right. I didn't know that that was a goal, but it turns out that a goal of mine was to answer the same question for us to answer it correctly
Kate: And better. I'm not going to lie. And better.
Doree: And for the New York Times to kind of whiff this one.
Kate: Okay, so let's fill people in because some folks, look, if you're tuning into this pod for the first time, have we got a story for you? A dear listener reached out to us with a question. They were dealing with debt and or had been a really trying experience for them and a new person that they had started dating was independently wealthy and offered to pay off they're debt.
Doree: Wait first, hold on. There's a crucial detail that I feel like we do need to emphasize, which is that the boyfriend had noticed the listener only using her debit card.
Kate: Oh, good point. And this was a new partner. They had been dating for two, months.
Doree: A new partner, two months, two months, two months, and asked why she only used her debit card, which then led to the discussion of the listener's debt
Kate: And the offer of the boyfriend. Please pay off her credit card. So yes, number one, I think we both just want to say that it's a great honor to be trusted with questions from y'all. Whether it's like,
Doree: Oh wait, well, and the listener was wondering what she should do.
Kate: Yes, yes, yes. So we answered the question. And again, not to repeat myself, but it's a real honor to be trusted with these kinds of questions with any kind of question. If you're like, what kind of underwear should I wear or should my new boyfriend pay off my debt?
Doree: We got you.
Kate: These all mattered to us.
Doree: Yes. So
Kate: We answered it to the best of our ability,
Doree: As we say.
Kate: And then I was on a road trip with my family.
Doree: Yes. We went on our merry way.
Kate: We did. We trotted along.
Doree: I don't even think, you know what was so funny? I don't even think we mentioned that question in the show notes. We didn't because I went back and looked and I was like, did is this even the right episode? And then I was like, it's, but we didn't even mention in the show notes. Well, we should after
Kate: Our episode aired the same question ran in the New York Times.
Doree: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. Sorry.
Kate: You tell the story. Doree, I want to hand the mic to you. I feel like you Sorry.
Doree: Really? I'm sorry. I'm sorry I keep interrupting you,
Kate: You're on side of accuracy hearing
Doree: But i do enjoy hearing your retelling. I happened to be on the New York Times website. Picture it. I'm at my computer
Kate: And I was already on vacation with my family at this point.
Doree: Kate was on vacation. I was really trying not to bother her.
Kate: I was on a road trip.
Doree: cause every time I texted her she'd be like, I'm on a mule on the edge of the Grand Canyon.
Kate: That was one time you did text me and I was literally on a mule on the edge of the Grand Canyon.
Doree: No, but you were having this amazing family trip and I was texting you with the most mundane shit. Should I get these sneakers? And you're like,
Kate: I want to reply when I'm in a seven hour car ride, which I will do shortly,
Doree: Um, I am with my family. Okay. Well anyway, so I was on the New York Times website and I saw a little widget that was something like, should I let my new boyfriend pay off my debt? And I was like, huh, that's funny. I think we just got a question like this. So I click and he clacked on over and I'm reading the question and I was like, this is literally the same question. This has to be the same question. It was slightly condensed and abridged, but I was like, this is the same question. There were turns of phrase that were exactly the same. It was the same amount of debt. The person been dating the person for the exact same amount of time. I was like, there's no way. This is not the same question. So I texted it to Kate and I also tweeted about it and cause I was like, what are the odds? First of all, we get a lot of questions. The New York Times gets a lot of questions. I'm sure, we both selected this question to respond to.
Kate: It's a fascinating question.
Doree: It is a fascinating question that raises I think a lot of issues and
Kate: Excuse me,
Doree: Kate and I, well Kate, I don't want to speak for you, so please interrupt me as I've been interrupting you and let me know if I'm misrepresenting your stance. But I think we were both just like, Ooh, this doesn't sound like the best idea with someone that you've been dating for two months.
Kate: I feel like I watched so much Susie Orman on Oprah growing up as a kid that there's no way I could let this listener do this. But also debt is a very serious issue
Doree: For sure.
Kate: We don't take it lightly, but also Getting yourself entrenched in situations with people is to me also that's very serious.
Doree: Introducing this dynamic so early in the relationship felt
Kate: Certainly
Doree: Very risky to me. It's different when you've been with someone for years or you're married to them, but when you've been dating someone for two months, it's like, how long have you even been exclusive with this person? Two weeks. It just felt something that I felt like, and I think you felt the same way that this listener should thank her partner for the generous offer and decline it like unequivocally.
Kate: Yes.
Doree: Decline it
Kate: And the New York Times fell differently. Philip Glanz, is that how we say their name?
Doree: I have no idea.
Kate: They were consider this and write a contract and something along those lines. Look, I don't want to, I'm paraphrasing very loosely, but I was kind of a gog their response
Doree: I was as well.
Kate: And then it turns out lots of our listeners read the New York Times because people kept sending in this link being like, is this the same? What are the odds?
Doree: Yes. And I put it in the most recent newsletter to let people know that we've seen it because also we had recorded ahead because Kate was going on vacation. So this is airing now almost two weeks after the Times column ran just because of our recording schedule. And I was like, we're not going to be able to address this on the pod for a while. Let me just get it into the newsletter. But not everyone reads a newsletter, let's be honest. So
Kate: Thats Okay. You don't have to.
Doree: We're still getting emails being like, did you all see this?
Kate: So yesterday texted the original listener and I just said, oh my gosh, we saw the question in the New York Times, we have so many questions for you. How is it going? Did you ask any other outlets? Like what's happened since? How are you? And they very kindly wrote back and they said, I can share their response, so I'm going to do that now. They wrote, hi Kat and Dor, thanks so much for following up. I am flattered that both outlets chose to respond to my question. Didn't ask any other public source, just my therapist and a few of my friends. I sought y'all's advice because I trust it and I appreciate how thoughtful and sensitive you both are. I mean hashtag that's so sweet of you. I decided to not take him up on it. Instead, we had a very open and respectful conversation about money and how important financial independence is to me. I thanked him for his generosity and said, I just wasn't comfortable with feeling indebted to someone so early in a relationship. He admitted that it wasn't well thought out and hadn't considered the power dynamic that it would introduce only that he wanted to make my life easier. I'm working hard to pay it down myself, keeping track of where every single do single dollar goes right now and have transferred the balance from two high interest cards to a 0% interest card. The debt was accumulated during a period of unpaid leave from work I had to take last year and has been emotionally and logistically hard to tackle, but I'm getting there. I appreciate your thoughts. And I then responded and asked, chatted and asked if it would be okay to share them their answer. And they said yes and added this. They said, the only thing I would like to add is that I took the F M L A leave for mental health purposes. I want that to be explicit to help with the stigma around that issue. So we're sharing that and wishing this listener all the best. It sounds like their new partner is a lovely person and that this conversation has only made their relationship stronger, which is really cool. And look, I think we're both touched to have been a part of this conversation and tickled to find the question in the times.
Doree: Yes, truly tickled. I did tag Jenae Desmond Harris who writes Dear Prudence on Slate, I tagged because she's a friend of the pod. And I was like, Janette, let us know if you also get this question. She's like, I haven't gotten it yet, but I'll keep an eye on her.
Kate: I mean, aren't you flattered that someone was like, I'm going to write to those two podcast ladies and the New York Times?
Doree: Yes. Yes. Because my immediate assumption when it showed up in both places was, oh, this person probably literally emailed 20 advice columnists. No. Like every single one that has ever existed. But no, it was just us and the Times.
Kate: Us and the Gray lady.
Doree: Wow.
Kate: Alright, well look, this has been fun. We've got some really fun listener feedback coming up in the next segment. So let's take a break.
Doree: All right.
Kate: And buckle up. We'll be right back. Okay, Doree. It's a real kind of Allstar week for the text messages because we got this one. This was another one that I found that I sent to you while I was on vacation. I think someone wrote in. So we did a, let me just preface this by saying we did, this is all feedback responses to the product recall episode we did on Vaseline because we got quite a few responses, varied responses. Here's the first one, just listened to your podcast about Vaseline and Robert Cheesebro was my mother's great-grandfather. Yes. You pronounced the last name correct. Cheesebro. He did eat Vaseline every day. Oh, you did a great job chronicling the history.
Doree: Amazing.
Kate: Again, what if you haven't listened to our episode of Product Recall all about Vaseline, highly recommend it. It's a wild ride. And I then followed up with this person. I said, how did you find out about the podcast? And they said, my girlfriend listens and told me about the episode and I listened today. Wow. Thank you to that girlfriend.
Doree: So good.
Kate: Thank you girlfriend. Doree, do you want to read this email from someone?
Doree: I would love to. I just had to pause the pod and write in while listening to the product recall episode on Vaseline, I thoroughly enjoyed hearing the historical narrative for how petroleum jelly came to be refined and used for so many things in modern skincare. I did not know that the Seneca also used it as far back as the 14 hundreds, but found that fascinating. Your storytelling also reminded me of other civilizations that used petroleum before the cheese bro dude. Petroleum was used by the Mesopotamians and ancient Egyptians. I learned this in my sixth grade social studies class. Why would I still remember that nearly 30 years later? Oh, let me tell you. I remember my teacher telling me that Cleopatra used petroleum on her hair to make it shiny. So what did I go home and do? That's right. I went home and smeared a big old glob of Vaseline on my hair. I naively thought it would make my hair look like the super shiny hair from a nineties pantine pro-v ad. Or as Ms. Hannigan would've said, an Annie, I thought it would shine like the top of the Chrysler building. Needless to say, that's not what happened. And I ended up with a gross mess on my head. It wouldn't wash out with regular shampoo. And my mom had to make me a homemade vinegar rinse to break it up and grease my hair. Lesson learned.
Kate: Ugh. Such a classic kid thing to do. I did so much stuff like this when I was a child. I remember once I washed my hair with the entire bottle of conditioner, like I thought
Doree: Oh no, You thought more is more.
Kate: I thought more was more. Turns out that's not great for gals with super thin fine hair.
Doree: No. Ooh, I don't think it would be great for anyone's hair to be fair to you.
Kate: I wouldn't recommend it. Here's another response that I thought was very important to mention. This person wrote, okay, I love your podcast and loved your Vaseline product recall. Thank you for calling out the true discoverers of petroleum jelly. And as indigenous groups. Another person who talks a lot about petrolatum and gives some good insight is Charlotte Palomino. Great follow. One thing I wanted to call attention to since it wasn't discussed, an old cheese bro liked to do is pleased. Do not put Vaseline or any other petroleum jelly on your burns. Not only can petroleum jelly irritate a burn, but it is also non-sterile and can cause bacteria to grow in a fresh burn. Also, because it is occlusive, it can actually trap the heat from a burn and cause the burn to go deeper. Yes. Don't put Vaseline on a burn. Don't do what they were doing. They meaning the dudes working on the oil rigs back in the 18 hundreds when cheese bro rolled in.
Doree: I don't know if this is because we've been talking about Vaseline, but I got a TikTok on my for you page the other night. That was a woman who had gotten a Fraxel laser treatment. And look, I don't know if this is normal. No. If the doctor person doing it did it too. Did too. Did it too strong. But her face was beat red and it really looked like, like she had a burn and she was putting Vaseline on it and a bunch of people. And the comments were like, don't put Vaseline on that. It traps the burn. And she was like, this is what my doctor told me to do. And I was like, huh, that's interesting. But it doesn't seem great. And then she had some updates where her skin was still pretty red many days later. I was like,
Kate: oh no.
Doree: Is this because she has been using Vaseline? What is happening here?
Kate: Oh no, don't do it.
Doree: It looked so painful. It looked awful.
Kate: Wow.
Doree: Yeah, I know that a lot of those really strong lasers you're, you do look pretty raw for a few days, but hers seemed extreme.
Kate: Oh, poor person.
Doree: Yeah. It looked terrible. Anyway, I will read this next email. I just started listening to your podcast and really enjoyed the history and information of the product you talked about. But I was surprised when you dropped the FBO many times and wondered why that was necessary. Especially when the topics are on skincare. Good information is always sought after, but it doesn't have to be effing good. That seems to cheapen the credibility of the product and the person recommending it. Just food for thought. Your pictures online make you appear more classy than your language. Well, Kate, what do you have to say to that?
Kate: Fuck That. Listener. Look, first of all, welcome to the podcast. I'm really grateful to have you listening and I appreciate the positive feedback and I appreciate the feedback about our language. I'm going to guess this is probably me. I think I swear more than Doree. I disagree with you on multiple levels. I don't think cursing cheapens a conversation. And I also think when we equate the language that one uses with Classiness, we're getting into some very darker implications about language, money, position in society, gender misogyny, lots of stuff. And Doree and I are no strangers to feedback on the way we talk or how we talk. And I often, I would say, I don't know how often does anyone give men this feedback? I, I hear you. I take the feedback. But I'm here to tell you that I'm personally am not going to change how I speak. And so I totally respect if you are not comfortable listening to the pod.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Anything else you want to add, Doree?
Doree: No, I think you said that perfectly, Kate.
Kate: Well, let's take a break and we'll be back to wrap things up.
Doree: Alright. Alright. We are back with an email. Hi Kat and Dor. S O s I have a problem that only of the Forever35 hive can help with. I'm having a small to medium size wedding. If my wedding were a dog, it would be an Irish terrier And I can't invite every one of my friends. I know this is a classic wedding dilemma, but here's my question. Should I tell the friends who aren't invited that I'm not inviting them or just let them wonder? It gets awkward when there are friends in a group chat who won't be invited when the rest of the group chat will. Or when I go out with a couple pals, one who is invited and one who isn't. Is it better to be honest, ahead of time and let the unin invitees know that they shouldn't be checking their mailbox? Or is it fine to let it remain a mystery for the next couple months? As I send out the invitations, the non-confrontational side of me really doesn't want to have to awkwardly tell anyone that I'm not inviting them. But it also seems like it could be more awkward down the line thoughts?
Kate: I have some thoughts.
Doree: Yes.
Kate: I a hundred percent think that you need to communicate this to them. I just think it's not necessarily that it's a quote courtesy that you're not inviting them, but just as a way to say you have every right to do your wedding, how you want to do it. But I do think you can say, you mean a lot to me. I'm not able to invite everybody to our wedding, but I would love to do a potluck or a picnic in the park or some sort of casual get together that celebrates my relationship with my partner and our marriage and also the importance that you have in our lives.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: I think that is a nice way of trying to do something casual that hopefully won't cost you any money, but that also lets them know what's going on. Lets them know that they're not invited. Cause I do think, I will say, is someone a hurt that I have that gone may or may not be like, it's just how I feel. I don't fault the person, but a person who I was close with and then kind of drifted apart from, but had kind of assumed that I would be invited to their wedding. I wasn't. And it made me really sad. And that's my own shit, obviously. But I do think it matters to people. And so if you're concerned about that, I think just being open and honest about it upfront is going to make your life easier and make your relationships stronger.
Doree: Yeah, I think that is, that's really good advice. In this person's situation, I would a hundred percent be upfront because of the group text situation and the friend group. I look, I am not going to sit here and tell you who to invite to your wedding. And I know that people have very clear reasons for not inviting people and inviting people. But the one thing I will say is maybe hold off just a smidge. Because you could have people who decline and then you can invite some, maybe you can invite some of these people who you originally thought that you weren't going to be inviting. That's the only thing I will say.
Kate: I love a late invite to a wedding. I have no problem if I'm on
Doree: You were a late invite to my wedding.
Kate: Yes. I was. Let me be on your D-list invite because I that's fine. I totally get that.
Doree: I think with us, it wasn't even a D list thing. It was more that we had literally become closer friends in the two months, since highlight.
Kate: Totally
Doree: No. And I was like, you know what? I think I would like to have Kate Spencer at my wedding.
Kate: That's right. I think we might make a podcast someday.
Doree: You and I are now much closer friends than half the people at that wedding.
Kate: I mean, this is the thing about weddings too. They're like a s a snapshot of that moment in your life.
Doree: Totally.
Kate: So many people who are at my wedding, I'm not close with anymore or I haven't seen in a long time, which is fine. And I guess I should use that advice and tell myself I shouldn't be hurt that somebody didn't invite me to their wedding. But also I will say a person's hurt feelings are theirs to deal with, someone's feelings are hurt. And that's also, it's okay. People might get hurt. Okay.
Doree: Yeah. But I do think that there is a way of going about it and then also repairing, like you said, you're not friends with this person anymore, but maybe if they had approached the situation differently, you would still be friends.
Kate: Maybe.
Doree: We don't know. We don't know. Yeah. Is the takeaway. But I can also tell you personally that my personal views on being invited to weddings has changed as I've gotten older. I think when I was younger, I did take it much more personally if I wasn't invited to someone's wedding, that I thought I was close enough to be invited to their wedding. And now I'm like, Ugh, thank you for not inviting me to your wedding.
Kate: Totally.
Doree: Especially if it's a destination wedding. Oh, I mean, I've kind of aged out of at least the first weddings circuit now. But even still the occasional invite that does come across my desk, if it's someone I'm really close with, of course I am so happy to go. But if it is a kind of peripheral friend and they're getting married and I don't know, somewhere far away, I'm like, what? You know, didn't actually have to invite me. I would've been fine. I hear you not being invited.
Kate: I hear you. Well, sometimes you can't make it to a wedding.
Doree: No. Exactly. Exactly.
Kate: Well again, I just want to say thank you so much for trusting us with these questions.
Doree: Yes.
Kate: It's just a real honor to get to be in your life in this way, people listening.
Doree: It's so true.
Kate: Alright, let's wrap here, Doree, and we'll talk to you all later.
Doree: All right, bye-Bye.