Episode 346: Rachel Goodwin Returns to Answer Your Makeup Questions
Celebrity makeup artist Rachel Goodwin is back to share how to keep your concealer from moving too much, how to decide which makeup brush to use, where to apply blush, how to create a beautiful natural glow with makeup, and much more!
Mentioned in this Episode
Trader Joe's Brownie Crisp Coffee Ice Cream Sandwiches
My Unorthodox Life
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Transcript
The transcript for this episode Ai generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:16):
And I'm Elise Hu. And we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Doree Shafrir (00:20):
It's true. Welcome to the show.
Elise Hu (00:23):
Welcome back everybody. And today we are very excited because we have one of our quarterly, one quarterly recurring guest, the makeup artist to the stars. Rachel Goodwin is back on with us today. And we also had some feedback from one of our longtime listeners and Patreon supporters about how during these very wack, tumultuous dark times, she kind of wanted an escape and to think about just indulgences. And so we thought that we always do a check-in before we get into the guest. We thought that maybe during this check-in that we could talk about some of our favorite things right now that are helping us get through the tough times. And they don't have to be products, they don't have to be things that cost a lot of money, but they can be. So I'm just curious, Doree, what are you doing? What are some of your favorite treats or indulgences that you're taking advantage of to just help get through?
Doree Shafrir (01:28):
I've been having a bowl of Trader Joe's vanilla ice cream with whipped cream every night.
Elise Hu (01:34):
Ooh. With whipped cream?
Doree Shafrir (01:36):
With whipped cream. The whipped cream is crucial I think.
Elise Hu (01:38):
I feel. Yes.
Doree Shafrir (01:40):
That makes it a
Elise Hu (01:40):
Treat. The extra. Exactly.
Doree Shafrir (01:43):
Sometimes I cut up some strawberries if I'm feeling ambitious and put them in. And I have occasionally been like, I should get some hot fudge, really turn this into a sundae. But I haven't done that yet. But yeah, every night I have a small bowl of Trader Joe's vanilla ice cream, which is delicious. And I'm a bit, that's your
Elise Hu (02:03):
Favorite.
Doree Shafrir (02:04):
I'm a bit of a vanilla ice cream snob, and I do find the Trader Joe's one to be quite good and I get the big tub of it, so that's one of my current indulgences. How about you?
Elise Hu (02:22):
So just to build on the Trader Joe's confection category here of our indulgences, they also make, I think I might've spoken about this in a Patreon episode, they also make these brownie sandwiches with the coffee ice cream in between. Have you seen those? They are ice cream sandwiches with brownies on the outside and then the inside is coffee ice cream. And it's pretty intense and I think very caffeinated. But since you had me thinking about sweet treats quite literally, then that's mine. But I discovered recently in my period of austerity that you can go to a dollar tree or in my neighborhood, it's a dollar tree, but I'm guessing this is at other dollar stores and get Mylar balloons, like heart balloons I've gotten. Or you can get birthday ones for the birthday people in your life and just bring them home and for a dollar or $2. And so every once in a while for the last couple of weeks, I'll just on a Friday or a random Tuesday, go and just get balloons and then give my girls a balloon. Or I have one in my room right now that's just like this giant balloon to try and cheer me up.
Doree Shafrir (03:37):
That's so fun.
Elise Hu (03:39):
And it's like a dollar. I love that. That feels good. And then something that I learned from, or a product that I learned about from Ava, he styles the 12-year-old is the elf lip oil. I love my elf lip oil. I'm putting that on top of everything now. Sometimes I'll skip lipstick, I'll just do lip liner and then an elf lip oil. It's really nice shiny coverage that lasts probably because of the lip liner. So the elf lip oil is also a nice little treat.
Doree Shafrir (04:10):
I love that.
Elise Hu (04:11):
The other thing is I talked about coffee, ice cream sandwiches, but I usually don't like to, I'm not a big coffee drinker as you know, unless I'm drinking it socially. Like you and I are meeting up for a coffee and then I'll have a latte.
Doree Shafrir (04:22):
Yes, yes, yes.
Elise Hu (04:24):
And then also buying an ice latte these days I think is seven or $8. And so it's very expensive. But now because of these dark times and the failing and flailing economy, I'm just sort of like, fuck it. I'm just treating myself to more purchased coffee at a coffee shop because it's a little break. I can walk my dog over to a local coffee shop. I have to shell out $8, but it's a treat. And so I'm just like, you know what? I'm doing it totally, totally. My dollar is probably worth more now than it will be six months from now,
Doree Shafrir (05:00):
So I
Elise Hu (05:00):
Might as well just thousand
Doree Shafrir (05:01):
Percent
Elise Hu (05:02):
Just spend it. So I'm just doing it. I'm doing it, folks,
Doree Shafrir (05:06):
I'm happy for you. I actually do want to mention something that was sent to me. They're not an advertiser, but this was gifted to me, so I just want to mention that. But do you remember, I don't know if you ever watched the show, my Unorthodox Life?
Elise Hu (05:26):
No, what was it?
Doree Shafrir (05:29):
It was a reality show about this woman who had grown up super orthodox Jewish and gotten married young and had four kids and then she left the sect and had married this Italian guy who was a multimillionaire and then lived in this huge fancy tribeca penthouse.
Elise Hu (05:51):
Wow.
Doree Shafrir (05:53):
And then they got divorced, whatever. So she had this very glamorous life but had come from this completely different background. And she recently launched a shapewear company and they sent me their wireless bra. And I'm actually kind of obsessed with it, what it's called, the perfect bra. And here's what I like about it. I feel like a lot of brands that have wireless bras or bralettes
(06:26)
Don't. The sizes are just small, medium, large. You could be a cup or G cup and you would just have to get an XL if you were a bigger cup, but you might have a small band size. So she has extra small up to three x, but then in cup sizes also. So there's extra small, a extra small cd. So I was able to get a cup size that fit my cup size and the appropriate size band, and it's a wireless bra and it's so comfortable. So I'm really into it. What is the brand? Oh sorry. It's called Body by Julia.
Elise Hu (07:11):
Okay. Because my daughter, Ava has been looking for more wireless brass. She doesn't like, she's not down with the underwire, so
Doree Shafrir (07:23):
She's got to try this.
Elise Hu (07:24):
Okay,
Doree Shafrir (07:25):
So this is her new venture. I was admitted east, sort of like, okay, whatever. I'm sure this will be not that great. And then I was like, oh, I actually love this bra.
Elise Hu (07:38):
Good.
Doree Shafrir (07:38):
That's my wreck.
Elise Hu (07:39):
Love it when that happens.
Doree Shafrir (07:40):
I love it when that happens too. Alright, well we want to hear from you about any treats or other ways of caring for yourself that you are doing right now helping each other. What is getting you through? Is it a bowl of ice cream? I don't know. Is it a balloon? Is it a balloon? Is it a wireless bra? Just let us know what is bringing you even the tiniest bit of joy right now. Is it a long walk through the woods? I don't know. I wish I had woods that I could take a long walk through. And then before we get to Rachel, just a reminder, everything we mention is always on our website, February 35 podcast.com. We are on Instagram at Forever 35 podcast. We have our Patreon at patreon.com/forever three five. Our latest pop culture episode is going up this week, so you can check that out. Shop our favorite products at shop my us slash forever 35. We have our newsletter at Forever 35 podcast.com/newsletter. And please call or text us five nine one zero three nine zero. Email us at forever podcast gmail com.
Elise Hu (08:53):
And thank you all so much for your questions for Rachel, which really make up the bulk of this show. Rachel Goodwin is a leading fashion and celebrity makeup artist whose unique perspective on beauty has made her one of the most well-known artists of her time. She trained early on at the San Francisco Opera House. She also worked the runway backstage of New York City and Paris. Now she lives in Los Angeles and she's been a decades long artist ambassador for Chanel director of pro artistry at nars, content creator for lots of brands. And she has a hugely impressive roster of clients. Of names, Emma Stone, Priyanka Chopra Aquafina, Julia Roberts, spree Larson, Michelle Dockery, and on and on. And she's also perhaps most importantly, a quarterly guest on Forever 35 because she answers your questions at a regular clip.
Doree Shafrir (09:48):
All right, we're going to take a little break and we'll be right back with Rachel. Rachel, welcome back to Forever 35. We are so excited to have you back on the show.
Rachel Goodwin (10:04):
I'm thrilled to be back.
Doree Shafrir (10:05):
Hi
Rachel Goodwin (10:06):
Ladies,
Doree Shafrir (10:06):
And
Elise Hu (10:07):
Congratulations. You just, I guess the deal just closed on a memoir that is going to be forthcoming by Rachel Goodwin.
Rachel Goodwin (10:16):
Yes, it's so exciting. Oh my gosh. I've been really just for years working on this project and kind of quietly just working away and it finally found the right home and it feels amazing to actually have that support from a publishing house that are so excited about it. So it took a long time, but it was worth waiting for.
Doree Shafrir (10:41):
Thank you. So cool. Hurry up and write it just so we can leave. Got to deliver. Better deliver. Yeah. Well, Rachel, we got a ton of questions for you, so we're going to just kind of get right into it because yeah, we want to get to as many of these as we can.
Rachel Goodwin (10:59):
Let's do it.
Doree Shafrir (11:00):
Alright, well first of all, you have done Emma Stone's makeup for a while and we actually got a bunch of questions about specifically her Golden Globes look. We got a couple specific questions about her lip combo and then also just about her overall makeup. So we'd love to hear just what the kind of vision for that look was, and then if you could talk some specifics, that would also be great.
Rachel Goodwin (11:26):
Yeah, so her makeup look for the Golden Globes, that was the first big pixie reveal she'd had, right?
Doree Shafrir (11:36):
Yes.
Rachel Goodwin (11:37):
So it was really exciting. And I have been doing her makeup since she was 17, so I feel like I have a really good grasp of her face at this point in her life.
(11:51)
But this was interesting because we've done a lot of things that her very, when she first told me that her hair was going to be shaved, I was like, wow, that's brave. Because most women are like, ah, this is a big deal to have no hair whatsoever. But she looked amazing. She looked like Sinead, I was like, get out of here with this. But it was a different approach to her makeup, I think from other periods of time that when it came to the short hair, my approach was definitely slightly more defined, but it wasn't about really, it was keeping everything sort of as naturalistic as possible and also amplify her beauty. And it's a tricky tall order. I know. It's like natural makeup always gets this. People think it's nothing. They're like, oh, it's like, but natural makeup is actually the hardest thing to do.
(12:48)
Hardest because it's like your instinct is to do things that are going to give a trick of the eye, but you have to pull back, you have to use restraint, and that can be really hard. I really focused on the skin. The skin was paramount. It was all about getting the skin. And that usually takes up a lot of my time because I like for her to have this really effortless looking skin. And so I actually deepened it two or three shades. She's incredibly fair, translucent fair. And she was like, I didn't want her to be, that contrast between the red and her skin could be really jarring if it was because she still looks pale, but she's actually her entire body I've covered in body makeup and a color that was about two and a half shades deeper than her regular skin tone.
(13:43)
So I warmed her, I gave her a glowing sort of look that gave her her version of a vacation tan for someone of that shade or non shade, whatever she is. And so we warmed everything up and then I really focused on giving her sort of a, I painted freckles. I wanted her to look like she was just like, that was just how she woke up. And then with the lip, it's actually interesting because I've been working really hard on a product because again, I've been working with her for so many years and she eats her lipstick. And so I have been working on creating something that looks completely transparent and is like a stain, but also stays. And so that's actually my product, which I don't have ready for to launch or anything yet, but it's in process. So it's something that I've been testing out and working out that lip product is most
Elise Hu (14:42):
Akin to a stain rather than a
Rachel Goodwin (14:45):
Lipstick. It's a stain slash balm that stays, this has been my life's work right now. This been my obsess. You're inventing a
Elise Hu (14:53):
New category.
Rachel Goodwin (14:54):
I am trying because it's what I like to wear and what I like to use, but so far I haven't had found anything that I can really count on to stay on and also be sheer. So this is what I'm working on. And then as far as cheeks and eyes, I really actually kind of pulled back a little bit on the eyelash thing. I normally, on big days, this will use even a subtle false eyelash. And this one, I actually stayed very, I was kind of really inspired kind of by this gum mean idea, I wanted her to seem like a French girl effortless feeling with this gown. So I pulled back on some of the tropes, red carpet tropes on that. Look, I kind of stuck to more of a fashion approach to her makeup, like a runway approach where it was just soft lines, little bit of definition, but nothing that was really going to grab away or take from the rest of her look. And I wanted it to almost seem like she just was like, oh, I'm just going to pop on this dress. And then cheeks and eyes I use, I used a lot of sheer kind of formulas. I used addiction. There's a very warm sort of soft eyeshadow palette that I used for her eyes.
Elise Hu (16:17):
And
Rachel Goodwin (16:17):
On her cheeks I used, it was like, it's a product by 1999. It's a stick, it's a tanning stick, like a contour stick that I love. They're a Canadian brand that I'm obsessed with. And then for the cheek, I used another addiction blush, which is a Japanese company that I'm obsessed with. I love their textures like watercolor. They're very, again, it's like the see-through way of getting that soft watercolor look on the skin without, but it lasts. It actually has staying power. And these are tricky things to do. Like when you usually do sheer natural makeup, it's like it wipes off and then you look like you don't have makeup on. So getting that performance with the really supernatural look is the kinds of products that I layer a lot. Okay,
Elise Hu (17:11):
Fantastic. Thank you for that breakdown. It's really fascinating to learn. All right. The next question from our listener is on eczema. I had eczema as a child, but it disappeared for decades. And now as I near 40, it seems to be coming back. I'd love any and all wrecks for creams, daytime or overnight. My skin is itchy, very sensitive to the sun and wind.
Rachel Goodwin (17:34):
I would just say you stay away from fragrance products with fragrance. I really love, and again, I don't know, I would imagine it's safe for eczema, but is clinical or is clinical has a recovery balm cream. That is just to me, when my sons have any kind of rashy, burny, anything, I use that and on myself, I tend to get quite red. I have rosacea type skin. I use that anytime I need to calm my skin down. I love that. Got it. Got
Doree Shafrir (18:05):
It. Okay. One of our listeners wants to know, Rachel, is contouring really necessary for us regular beings?
Rachel Goodwin (18:15):
I kind of go back and forth on it, to be honest. I think in our daily life in daylight can be quite jarring if it's not done with a little bit of care. So I think that it can be wonderful. I mean, I think most women have gotten very comfortable using a layer of contour almost as for dimensionality of their skin. And I think that it can be beautiful a regular, on a regular day at the office. But I also think that if you're not careful, it can do the opposite. So I think it's about more finding that sweet spot for yourself. I like to use, there's now I actually will use sometimes a foundation that's a little bit deeper than my skin just to give myself a little bit of dimension. And it's still wearable. When I go outside, people aren't like, whoa, that would happen to her. You know what I mean? So I think there's this really nice sweet spot that we found, and I think that we all just watch a lot of YouTube and we watch a lot of tiktoks where we see these crazy transformations. But those are controlled lighting. Controlled lighting gives you a lot more freedom when it comes to contour
Elise Hu (19:25):
Because
Rachel Goodwin (19:26):
It's only from here what happens when you turn to the side. What happens when you are in raw daylight and everyone can see everything. It's great to know the fundamentals of contour because yeah, every now and then you can use those tricks and pull 'em out of your bag. But I think for a daily basis, a gentler approach is just to use a little bit of, if you have a lighter foundation, maybe your winter foundation, your summer foundation, and you can use that for that same kind of feeling, but you're not going to look like you've gone mad.
Elise Hu (19:58):
Speaking of, I've never tried to contour myself and with good reason. So Rachel, on the topic of daily makeup, one question from a listener is what are your recommendations for makeup? You can apply with fingers? So no brush, no sponge required.
Rachel Goodwin (20:20):
I'm a finger paint girl. So I mean, I'll just tell you that right now. I do love a beautiful brush and brushes have their place for precision and obviously I use them as well. But inherently my training as a makeup artist, which was I have a fashion background and most fashion makeup artists that I know use their fingers. And the reason why that is the case is because they move makeup into your skin in a very different than say a brush. A brush is beautiful for getting those precision moments to happen and fingers are used to give that integrated look to your makeup. It looks like you it part of you versus sitting on top of your skin. We're after the result. We don't really care about the pretense. We're like, we're not showing you how to use product. We have to get this done and we have to get it done in a particular manner and it has to look a particular way.
(21:16)
So hands, I think as far as using your fingers, don't be afraid to do that. I've heard it from a lot of people, they're afraid to do that because they feel like it's unsanitary. It's like wash your hands first. That's the simple solution to that. I put my blush on with my fingers. I have a little cream blush and I use it on my lips, my fingers. I love balms that I can use with my fingers. And I also love when you kind of take a cream and you press it onto your eyelid and you just, because it also removes any excess as you're doing it almost in the same way as a sponge sponge is applying and removing at the same time. As far as products that I think are great for that, I would say this blush I'm loving right now by ly LYS, it's a cream blush and a little triangular palette.
(22:08)
I love that. And I've been using that a lot. I've been obsessed with these kindred black balms. They're kind of expensive, but they're made with all natural products and they're in this little glass blown beautiful containers and they're so gorgeous and they're like, they're definitely, you could use a brush, but I often use my finger. And then as far as you can literally take a lipstick or any kind of contour stick, even if say you have a burnished bronzy contour stick, you could use it on your cheek, you dab it in, you kind of press it. It's more of a pressing, it's less of a swipe and more of a press. So just kind of reorient yourself to the way you use your fingers. Most people think they should be swiping. It's pressing, it's just a friendlier look. It's a less obvious makeup kind of approach. And I think it's always what I think all women should be using their fingers more and being a little bit less stressed about which brush to use. Got it. Although brushes have their place.
Doree Shafrir (23:07):
Okay, so along those lines, we have a couple brush question that might be, this might be a little too detailed, but let me know what you think. Okay, so here's our question about brushes. Please do a rundown of which brushes to use for blush, skin tint, bronzer, et cetera. Thank you.
Rachel Goodwin (23:29):
Blush, skin tint, bronzer, et cetera. So I'm a little bit weird with that. So my technique is sort of multi, it's like fingers. And then I have what I call my magic brush. My magic brush is almost like, it doesn't really have much on it. It's a synthetic brush, and I wish I could remember the number, but I'll get it to you afterwards. But it looks like it's a tapered brush, what we call a tapered brush. It's synthetic, so it's not a natural fiber. And again, what it does is it's like if I was Bob Ross, I'd be probably putting remover on it or something. And you know what I mean, if I'm removing, it's like writing, it's like you blah and then you edit, right? So it's like you're thinking about it as you're putting everything out there and then you're sort of taking away. And so what this brush does is it's like if I put it on there, it allows me to dilute it and haze it out, and I just go over everything. So it creates more of a halo effect on the skin. That's my approach to the way I do whether skin tint or blush or possibly even bronzer depending.
Elise Hu (24:42):
So this is your eraser brush?
Rachel Goodwin (24:44):
Yeah, it like an eraser
Elise Hu (24:46):
Brush. And with everything else that she mentioned, blush or skin tints or bronzer, you're down with just applying with fingers or specific brushes or
Rachel Goodwin (24:55):
Those fingers. Then you can go over with that brush. So if you feel like, oh, it's too much. I am seeing my eyes being drawn here too much, or this line looks too heavy, this brush sort of allows you to give, you go over it without disturbing it. It's still there, but you kind of soften the whole thing. So there's just no harshness, there's no lines. If it's too bright, it kind of takes it down slightly and you have a bit more control over it. So it's less stressful. If you have a brush like that. What it allows you to do is just be like, ah, if I put too much, okay, I can smooth it out.
Doree Shafrir (25:31):
So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.
Elise Hu (25:43):
Okay. Speaking of blush, the next question is where should we be placing our blush? Because it seems like there's a generational divide on this. When you watch Get Ready with me by tweens and teens, they seem to be putting blush in a place that's different than their mom's. So talk us through.
Rachel Goodwin (26:02):
I find it so fascinating blush placement because everything, eyebrows and lip shapes, and I mean, your book is so fascinating about that, Elise, these are how do you make a trend from a, you know what I mean? You're born however you're born if you want to have something augmented or you want to make it look. But styles of makeup are like they used to go, they used to last a decade. I mean now they last a week. Very stressful to me.
Elise Hu (26:35):
No, but I feel like there are some classic rules about what looks appealing. So when it comes to blush, what do you recommend and blush placement?
Rachel Goodwin (26:47):
So there's two schools of thought. I mean there's trend and then there's your face shape, and then there's personal style and preference. I mean, there's a few ways to approach this. I think blush is historically a way to make a woman look like a childbearing possibility from an revolutionary standpoint. So if we're talking about a flesh, a natural flesh, then that's going to be on your apples of your cheeks. And often it can even go down into this ruddy area where if you're running or you exerting yourself in any way, you're going to get sort of in this little area. So it kind of apple running down into the cheeks here. Then there's the other high fashion blush. It's kind of a draping effect, which is more up the cheekbone and up into possibly the hairline. And that's a more feline sort of openly artificial aggressively, you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, it's a bit more high fashion and it has a little bit more of a feeling of sort of sophistication and it gives you that. So it's like that's another look, right? So if you're going out at night, maybe you're going to a nightclub or you're going to somewhere where you're kind of leaning into this more high stylistically, maybe you're going out to a party and you want to be really chic in high fashion, I would do that.
(28:14)
But then there's the new kind of thing where they're taking it across the nose and they're sort of doing it like that. And I almost feel like it's like I don't hate it, but I'm like, no one really blushes on their nose. Your blood is not rushing there naturally. So I'm not as attracted to it, but I see it on TikTok and I'm like, that's fun. There's a lot of tip
Elise Hu (28:39):
Of the nose stuff.
Rachel Goodwin (28:41):
Yeah, I did have Diane Lane teach me something many, many years ago about putting a peachy blush on her cage. I have to say I love that trick. It does. It's lively, it's fun. But I dunno that it's necessary. I think it's embellishment for the sake of embellishment and personalization, and that's about it. I don't get behind it. Totally.
Doree Shafrir (29:07):
Okay. This is sort of related to brushes. I am curious to hear what you think about this, your take on beauty blenders recently, some makeup artists have argued they break down base.
Rachel Goodwin (29:24):
That's what I love about them. That's exactly right. Okay. That's exactly what they're supposed to do.
Doree Shafrir (29:31):
Can you sort of elaborate on that? What does that mean and why do you love it and why do some people not love it?
Rachel Goodwin (29:38):
I don't know why you wouldn't love it. That's the intention of it. So base is not meant to erase you. It's meant to sort of hopefully reveal a new version of skin, like better than the one you have, but still looks like yours. I mean, in my opinion, that's what an artist is there to do is make you look like you don't have makeup on your skin. And so Rayanne was a makeup artist or is a makeup artist, and so she created that sponge from that place as an artist because she was always after that approach to the skin. And so when I use that, what it does is it's putting in the product, it's putting this product on and removing it at the same time, kind of like what I was just telling you about with the fingers. Fingers can do the same thing as well, but that's the hope. You don't want to keep layering product on the skin and create a full barrier. And unless you're doing opera makeup or unless you're doing a very theatrical makeup, and then maybe you would, I might not use it if I was working with Chapel Ron, or if I was working on a person who wanted to almost create a complete
Elise Hu (30:54):
Mask,
Rachel Goodwin (30:55):
Then I would probably use maybe a brush and then another, a sponge or a powder on top to create this dense application of product that I didn't want to budge or move. But I don't do makeup that would ever require me to create a mask. And normally on the women I work with, I'm trying to basically create a look that allows them to shine through and not look like they actually have makeup on. And so the beauty blender to me is I think it's a masterpiece of beauty ephemera. Okay,
Doree Shafrir (31:30):
Great. I love my beauty blender. So I was sort of like, I wonder what her take on this is going to be big fan from the day I was a big fan.
Elise Hu (31:40):
Okay, next question. Do I really need lip liner?
Rachel Goodwin (31:45):
I do. I need, okay, be real. None of us need any of this stuff, but I think there's, I love lip liner. I'm like, I freaking love it. I've always loved it and it went out for a while and then it came back thankfully. But I think lip liner can be useful for few things. I think first of all, you can use it as lipstick. People totally don't give it enough credit. I get a lot of questions over my whole career. I've gotten so many people, women have asked me, how do I keep my lipstick on? How can I keep my lipstick on? It's a big, big point of contention. And I think lip liner is one of the ways that you can keep your lipstick on because if you use it underneath your lipstick, it creates another barrier and it creates a longer, now there's a lot of incredible formulas that won't budge,
(32:40)
But I used it in the early days as a way to create another barrier that kept them lipstick from fading for, it would add hours to lipsticks, especially back in when we didn't have those long wear formulas and things like that, or those long wear formulas felt like literally your lips were in prison. This is horrible, horrible plastic feeling on your lips. So I would do an entire, say for instance, I was doing a red lip on someone for red carpet where I knew I wasn't going to see them for hours. And then I would do the red lip pencil underneath blott it or use a little Q-tip almost like take off any excess, blott it with powder and then apply lipstick, and that stuff wasn't going anywhere. So that's one. The second thing I would say is I personally love a little bit of a refining of my lip shape, and I tend to use lip liner and lip balm on top of it, almost like a lipstick. And I think I find certain colors really are great for that natural, especially when it comes to your natural colors. If you want to do, I love Morocco by nars, certain nudes that the Sicily lip pencils are one of my favorite things in the world. They have a little brush on the end and you can kind of fuzz 'em out and I mean, I don't even need lipstick. If I have a lip pencil, sometimes I'll send a client with those to the red carpet, so tiny
(34:07)
Versus a whole lipstick and they can keep their S fresh all night versus having to constantly reapply lipstick. If it comes off in the middle, you can just color in the center, color
Elise Hu (34:19):
It in.
Rachel Goodwin (34:19):
Yeah, you're fine. So lip pencils are, I think they're fabulous and I think they've come a long way. They used to be really waxy, really heavy. They're so beautifully done. Now, the formulas that we have available, I think lip pencils are having their heyday right now, honestly.
Elise Hu (34:38):
And we have a voicemail, right? Ooh. Yeah, you can speak to the listener directly.
Listener Voicemail (34:43):
Wow. I did some trial and error with eyelash glue, but I really struggled to find one that makes it from morning to night. And maybe that's application error. Maybe there's something to do with the oils on your eyes or something. But it feels like there has to be a good eyelash glue out there that is long lasting and stronghold and would not require me reapplying before the evening. So that's my question for Rachel.
Rachel Goodwin (35:12):
Wow. I'm amazed actually by this question because I've never had an eyelash glue. I mean, I've always, I've used a bunch of different glues over the years. I've tried a bunch of different things. They
Elise Hu (35:28):
Often work too. Well,
Rachel Goodwin (35:30):
I was going to say,
Elise Hu (35:30):
And then rip out my actual eyelashes.
Rachel Goodwin (35:35):
I'm kind of like, wow, what's on here? Because that's duo to me is it doesn't budge. I mean, I've used it for adhesives for other things as well. I mean, it's actually surgical. It's actually meant, I feel like it's actually a medical product
Elise Hu (36:00):
When they glue you together instead of stitches.
Rachel Goodwin (36:03):
Yeah, it's like it's meant to come off and not be harmful, but I think it's actually surgical glue, so it's like I hope it doesn't go anywhere. It should be waterproof. It shouldn't budge. So maybe it is about the products she's using alongside them, or maybe it's when she applies it. If you are putting it on after a product possibly, and it's repelling. Those are the only things I could think of. Or if you have a lot of oils, like she said, maybe oils do break down. Some people do produce more oil than others in their eyelashes. If that's the case or she's using an oil to condition her eyelashes or something, it might be less adhesive. But I would say there's no budging duo if you use it correctly on lashes that are not already, don't already have a product on them or any oil-based product on them, it should work.
Elise Hu (36:54):
Okay. So make sure you're applying them to your natural triage without anything on it yet, no mascara or any other products. Yeah. Okay,
Doree Shafrir (37:01):
Great. Okay, Rachel, just a couple more questions. We did get a few versions of this question, which is about how to make concealer slash foundation not crease under your eyes and on eyelids.
Rachel Goodwin (37:17):
Again, this is the age old question, and I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but any emollient product you put on top of your skin is eventually going to gather somewhere. It has to heats up and it moves and it has to find somewhere to go. There's no way around it. My approach to makeup in general is always use the least amount of product possible in the most potent form. So when I use a beauty blender and I'm using it, I'm using it with a high coverage foundation because I'm leaving literally a trace behind. That trace though is quite effective and gives you the illusion that you're not wearing anything that faint trace. But what it also does is it allows me to not leave a lot of makeup on top of the skin to do that. So I'm using a highly, highly pigmented performance product in a minimal way.
(38:19)
And that's what I would suggest doing if you're trying to keep things out of creases, because the more product on the skin, that's where you get into trouble. It has to go somewhere. It's not just going to sit there perfectly. We're moving, we're humans, we're in the heat we're in, or even you smile. And if it's going to go in there because it's like it's looking for someplace to go. If you have creases around the lips, I tend to use waterproof pencils, lip pencils instead. Because what that does is it keeps any kind of emollient product from moving into the creases and you can create another barrier with say, a silicone based product that sort of creates more smoothness, but often eventually the dam's going to break. It's just how it works. So just the least amount you can use.
Elise Hu (39:14):
Okay. This is sort of along the lines, which is how do I prevent my foundation from clumping and flaking when applying after sunscreen? So sunscreen and then foundation, but then there are some consequences.
Rachel Goodwin (39:28):
Yeah, that's the thing. It's like we pile a lot of things on. Now we have our skincare routine, we have our sun care routine, and then we have our makeup.
(39:38)
It feels like a tall order to say, how do you keep that all from going? You know what I mean? Also, you got to remember all this stuff's kind of going into your bloodstream too, because it's going into your skin eventually. If it's not gathering, it's going in. So I often am just sort of like, I try to use the least amount because it is, first of all, I don't seeing that barrier too heavy. But I think that eventually it just on everyone, we either have, if you have a very, very dry skin, you can do more. But most people don't have extremely dry skin. They have more oily combination skin where it's kind of like a little oily here. But I think that ultimately, I would also say if you are covering, what I do is I'll use, if someone to say for instance, has a lot of things to cover, I'll do a very sheer application of a tinted moisturizer or something that just kind of gives a little bit of an evenness. And then I'll just go in and cover specific things with a more, say a concealer type thing where I can go, okay, and do it spot by spot.
(40:53)
That way the rest of the skin is totally as bare as possible and only we're only kind of focusing on the things we need to cover. And that way you kind of avoid having to use a lot of product as well. That works especially well in the hot months, I find. Yeah.
Elise Hu (41:08):
Okay. Dorie, I'll give the last one to you. We have such a grab bag. We're going to save more for next time your quarterly visits, but we've got to choose one. Okay.
Doree Shafrir (41:18):
So someone asks, what is the secret behind glowing skin? And I feel like instead of answering this from a skincare product perspective, if you could answer it from a makeup perspective, how do you use makeup to create the look of glowing skin? That
Rachel Goodwin (41:34):
Would be great. I think it's a layering effect. It's like you want to create dimensionality, but without being too heavy handed. So I think what I like to do is I usually, like I said, I'll do my first round where I'll do covering anything I don't want to see whether it's a patch of darker skin or if it's a little blemish or something, get all that covered. And then I look at the face and I'm sort of like, well, where do I want the light to hit the face? And that's usually on the cheekbones, the brow bone. I like to usually get the bridge of the nose, and I often will do right above the Cupid's bow. I like to kind of see the light kind of hit there as well. I don't normally go for the chin just because usually that doesn't, I really want, it's this kind of almost like alien ish vortex in the triangular upper,
Elise Hu (42:37):
The upper two thirds.
Rachel Goodwin (42:38):
Yeah. Okay. Forehead, I avoid because that typically is a place where most people can get shiny. So it's not necessarily as beautiful, I guess, traditionally beautiful. But I often don't use powder, so I like skin to glow. If I do use powder, it's incredibly minimal and it's only really ever around the nose, under the eyes possibly. And the forehead and the chin, those are like, and I use a very sheer, almost imperceptible amount of powder, but it's like a mattifying quality that I'll do just on those areas. And I leave the rest of the skin completely unpowered, never use powder on those places. And I think that that creates this, again, it's an easy glow. It's not of a really artificial looking glow or like an alien glow. It's more natural. And you can always take a beautiful balm. I'll often, once the makeup is completely finished, I'll go in and I'll take a balm. I love monasteries avatar, which is like, it's a little pricey, but you can use anything. You could use eight hour cream, you could even use Vaseline for this. It's not prohibitive based on price. I think it's whatever you like, any kind of balmy, even a face oil can do this
(43:58)
And just put it in the palm of your hand and just sort of press it over the makeup. And it does this beautiful thing. Again, it's breaking it down in a way that makes it look integral to the skin. And it's giving you that dewy glow versus a shimmer glow, which shimmer can be beautiful. And I use it a lot in my work, but it's also not as natural looking as far as glowing. Or you can combine the two. You can even put that balm on top of a slight shimmer. And so I think it's about finding that little, but it definitely, there's a breaking down of the product again, that I think is inherently my style of makeup. And that is something I do a lot. And that's what I think all my clients, I like giving them that natural looking glowy skin.
Elise Hu (44:53):
Love it. And we can tell too the work really shines.
Doree Shafrir (44:57):
Thanks ladies.
Elise Hu (44:58):
Well, Rachel Goodwin, thank you so much for coming back and joining us again and being so game to answer so many of our listener questions. They are piling up, so we will have more in about three months. Great. And congratulations on all your successes and your travels. It's great to check in.
Rachel Goodwin (45:13):
Thank you, Elise. Thank you, Dory. I'll talk to you ladies. Thanks Rachel. I know. So much fun. Thank you ladies.
Doree Shafrir (45:23):
Rachel always has such good advice.
Elise Hu (45:26):
Also, I'm always taking notes. I'm like, oh, that thing I know and that thing, oh, and I can't wait for her to release this lip stain that she has invented. Totally,
Doree Shafrir (45:37):
Totally. Oh my gosh. Well, let's talk about the intention zone. Elise, have you been doing any longer jogs?
Elise Hu (45:51):
I have done jogs, but they're not longer. I have gone jogging way more often than I was previously. I have extended my walks, but I think I'm going to re-up this intention for next week. Oh, nice. Yeah, because I'm feeling good about it. It's spring. It's not as cold in the mornings, and I really want to make this more of a habit and get back into the running habit. So I'm going to just write this down as a reupped intention for running and running longer distances. What about you? How was your in-law visit?
Doree Shafrir (46:28):
It was good. We all survived. I think it ended on a high note. Henry was, I think, really happy to have his grandparents here. We played a lot of Uno with them.
Elise Hu (46:40):
Oh, nice.
Doree Shafrir (46:41):
Henry killed us all last night. He won four games in a row. We're like, alright. There was one night where someone, I think it was Matt, said, okay, whoever wins has to gets to go to bed first or something like that. And I really tried to let Henry win that game, but I ended up winning and then I was like, okay, I guess I'm going to bed. See you later. I'm going to bed. And then Henry was like, yeah mama, you have to stay in your bedroom. And I was like, okay, twist my arm. Yeah, exactly. So this week I cannot repeat my intention because my in-laws are not staying, but we are going up to a friend of Henry's has a cabin in Big Bear and we're going up there for a night and it's kind of Henry's first time doing anything like this. So I'm hoping all will be well.
Elise Hu (47:43):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (47:44):
Okay. And that's just is the intention sort of like Yeah. Alright. New adventures for Henry. New
Doree Shafrir (47:52):
Adventures for Henry and just, yeah, I just hope he is able to kind of enjoy himself and not get freaked out by being in a different house. And I think he's excited to travel, but I dunno, maybe I'm making a problem where there isn't a problem. Alright. And this is also the episode where we thank our Patreon supporters at the Sweet and Spa levels. That is an old Doris's Hotel Inside joke. I can't remember who read the names last time. I think it was me.
Elise Hu (48:30):
I think you did though. You are smoother at it because I feel like I'm butchering people's names as I'm going along. So you can take it. Is that the old, is that the old, oh, you're so good at this. You do
Doree Shafrir (48:41):
It. You know what? No good deed goes
(48:44)
Unpunished. Alright. Thank you to the following Patreon supporters. We truly are so grateful for your support and you keep this podcast going. So thank you. Thank you to Caitlyn h Katie, Ashley Taylor, Theresa Anderson, Michelle Maya, Barbara Chia, Callos, Amy, Sarah Fitz, Amy Schnitzer, Heather Hale, Megan Donald Brew, Jr. Helen De Mo, Shelly Lee, Kim Beagler. Sarah, Sarah Boozy. Alison Cohen, Susan Eth, Melissa McClain, Fran, Kelsey Wolf, Donne. Laura. Eddie, jet, Apte, Valerie, Bruno, Julie, Daniel, E, Jackson, Alicia, Amy, Mako, Liz, rain. J. DK. Jennifer Smith, Hannah M Julia, putt, Maddie oday, Marissa, Lauren Gitlin, Sarah Bee, Maria, Diana, Coco Bean, Laura Hadden, Josie H, Nikki Bossert, Juliana Duff, Chelsea Torres, Tiffany G, Emily McIntyre, Stephanie Ana, Elizabeth A. Kelly Dearborn, Christine Basses, Alison, Mark Lane, Jessica Gale, Zulema, Lundy, Carolyn Rodriguez, Carrie Golds, a and T, Nikki, Catherine Ellingson, Kara Brugmann, Sarah H Sarah Egan, Jess Bin, Jennifer Olson, Jennifer Hs, Eliza Gibson, Jillian Bowman, Brianne, Macy, Karen, Perelman, Katie, Jordan, Sarah, m Lisa, Travis, Kate, M, Emily, Bruer, Josie, Alquist, Tara, Todd, Elizabeth, Cleary, and Monica. Thank you so much. And just a reminder that Forever35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Samee Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partners Acast. Thanks everyone. Talk to you next time. Bye.