Episode 221: Gorgeous, Gorgeous Girls Have Giving Circles with Melissa Walker
“The fight gives me hope. Holding ground, close margins give me hope.”
- Melissa Walker
Doree finds a toner she doesn’t hate and Kate lives up to the middle name Horse. Then, Melissa Walker, Head of Giving Circles at The States Project, joins the podcast to talk about how she went from a YA author to fighting politics, why it’s so important to focus on state-level elections and government, and how she takes breaks when things feel like too much.
Photo Credit: Jolene Siana
Mentioned in this Episode
Visit The States Project to start your own giving circle, and mention that Forever 35 sent you!
If you remember I Heart Daily, you can find delight in Melissa’s former partner Anne Ichikawa’s new venture — Stuck in Stoneybrook, a Babysitter’s Club podcast!
To leave a voicemail or text for a future episode, reach them at 781-591-0390. You can also email the podcast at forever35podcast@gmail.com.
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Transcript
Kate: Hello, welcome to forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I am Kate Spencer
Doree: And I am Doree Shafrir
Kate: And we are not experts.
Doree: No, but we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: Now look, normally I'm the person who comes to the pod with a toner recommendation, but today Doree has one. So we're just gonna get right to it. Before we do friendly reminder, our website is forever 35 podcast.com. Our Twitter is forever 35. Pod. Instagram is forever 35 podcast. Facebook group is just forever 35 for the password to CRS. You can also shop some of our favorite
Doree: Products at shopmyshelf.us/forever35 and do sign up for the forever35 newsletter at forever35podcast.com/newsletter. If you wanna reach us, you can call or text us at (781) 591-0390 or email us at forever 35 podcast, gmail.com.
Kate: Okay, so let's just get this big news out of the way you have a toner recommendation and you know, I'm very excited one, because I feel like you've said in the past that you're not a fan of toner and two, you are a monogamous product user, meaning you don't switch things up too often.
Doree: It's true. It's true. So, uh, Soko glam has their own line of products called the clog that the clog was originally like their blog.
Kate: I remember the clog. Yes,
Doree: Of course. Yeah. So now, so now they have the clog pros, um, which are at a great price point by the way. So they send me a bunch of prods and one of them was the hydro shield, anti pollution, jelly toner. And I was sort of like, mm, first of all, toner, as we know, I've come out, not super in favor of a toner. And second of all, what the heck is a jelly toner? I was like, this is gonna feel weird.
Kate: <laugh> so good. It's gonna feel so
Doree: Good. But then I tried it and I was like, oh, this feels so good.
Kate: <laugh> Is it a spray or do you put it on with your hands? Okay.
Doree: You and I also like the packaging. So, um, it's one of those things that you, you push down and the stuff comes out. Mm-hmm <affirmative> do you know what I'm talking
Kate: About? I do. I love that. I love that sensation.
Doree: Me too. And so, and it is like a sort of like viscous jelly, texture.
Kate: Yeah. Sounds good on
Doree: Toast. Um, yes, probably delicious on toast. Um, as they say in the description experience, the balancing benefits of a toner with a serum like finish.
Kate: Mm.
Doree: So it's really, I mean, it's really a, a bridge between a toner and a serum. Let's be honest here.
Kate: Sounds fantastic.
Doree: I'm a fan. I'm a big fan. I've been using it. It is super hydrating as advertised and it's 14 bucks, which like not gonna break the bank.
Kate: I like this for you. I'm very excited for you to have something new in your closet, your little prod clause. <laugh>
Doree: And I like
Kate: The idea of just like a, I love a jelly, a jelly toner sounds delightful. It just sounds like it's gonna make your skin nice and dewy and yeah, I feel
Doree: It's, it's really upping the dewiness of the skin. So yeah, so that is my that's my product. And, um, I think, you know, the, the other products that the clog has, I think are worth checking out as well. So Soko, glam, Soko, glam.
Kate: I gotta say congratulations to Soko glam for winning Doree over.
Doree: I know I'm a tough cookie.
Kate: You are a little bit of a tough cookie, but with a soft chewy interior,
Doree: Ah, a soft jellyish into, If you will,
Kate: A jelly cookie,
Doree: I'm a jelly
Kate: Cookie. Sounds good. Like a Hamin Tosh. Oh yeah. With a jelly on the inside
Doree: Or AER a raspberry
Kate: Cookie's that's so good. Good story. <laugh> that's our door.
Doree: You have you okay. Moving on from toners. Yeah. You have some completely different news to share.
Kate: Well, you know, I have really been listening and taking to heart. You talking about how the last two years have really created a space for you to develop hobbies that you love and that bring you pleasure mm-hmm and it has really, really kind of, you know, affected me in a way, because I don't necessarily have that. And we, we, um, you know, recently saw a friend of the pod and past guest E Rodsky who wrote, um, unicorn space, which is all about kind of finding the space that gives you pleasure. That's just for you
Doree: Mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Kate: And I was like, where's mine, you know, like, I, I, I deserve that. Not that I haven't had it in the past, but I was kind, I've kind of been in a point where I'm like, what is the thing that I'm like, what's just my thing. And I, you know, I haven't, as, as listeners know, my middle name is horse and yeah. Yep. Because I love horses. I grew up loving horses and I haven't ridden for a year because I have been in and out of various hand surgeries and hand rehabilitation
Doree: Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Kate: And I also have done been doing some thinking about what I want to get out of riding mm-hmm <affirmative> I don't want to be competing in shows. I don't mm-hmm <affirmative> want to be jumping necessarily. I, I really want to learn about horseback riding for pleasure mm-hmm <affirmative>, which is a thing, which there's like a pleasure style of riding, but there's also here in Los Angeles, you can do a lot of trail riding. So I did a lot of exploring of different teachers in this area. And I reached out to a few of them and are trainers rather. And I just took my first lesson with a trainer who focuses really on like intuitive horsemanship, uh, intuitive riding. Um, I got to ride Western, like I did a lesson Western, which I never ride Western. And I think kind of growing up riding, what is riding Western.
Kate: Okay. Western it's just basically a different style, different saddle. Um, and English is a bit more formal. Mm. And oftentimes, you know, one thing I've also been thinking of is how you can really be priced out of horseback riding. It's a very financially prohibitive sport. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and I, I don't want to get sucked into a world and I'm like, I need $500 boots and all the like, right. Like I just, yes, I saw that I've lived I've, I've seen that. And it's just not for me and I, but horses, but horses are for me. And the experience of working with horses and riding and being in nature like that just all sounds really special to me and is kind of what I want to be able to experience. So I just took, took my first lesson with this trainer and she was so wonderful.
Kate: And she was like, you know, I want you to tell me anything that you're feeling afraid of. Like we're gonna, I, she speaks like we're gonna do a lot of unlearning about how you've learned to horseback ride. Mm wow. How cool. Because I, yes, I was riding like all last year. I was riding with a lot of fear, like, oh, afraid I was doing it wrong, afraid I was gonna fall off afraid I was gonna hurt the, like, just a lot of fear. And so I got to do stuff like canter without using, you know, without, with my hands in the air, which I haven't done in since I was like a kid, you know, not holding onto the rains, not holding onto the horn of the saddle. Yeah. Um, and we're gonna work on trail riding and I'm gonna learn, you know, how to actually really ride on a trail and best practices and all these things.
Kate: And I just, and also how, like, you really are partners with the horse and listening to the horse and how you're communicating and your confidence and your emotional state translates to that. Like all this stuff, like just stuff that I haven't really ever thought about that really excites me. So yeah. I really, that is something I love being outside. We live in a beautiful part of the country where we can go trail riding. Mm-hmm <affirmative> like write out our back doors, basically. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm getting back in the saddle. <laugh>
Doree: Well played.
Kate: Thank you. And like, my hand is, you know, I'm in the space where I have to be using my hand in order for it to heal and recover. So I, I don't have to kind of like, be afraid of using it. And so I'm happy. I love being around horses. I just love horses.
Doree: Oh, okay. First of all, I'm so excited that you are doing this. Second of all. I don't think it's coincidence that, I mean, unicorns are a, a, a, a kind of horse.
Kate: Yeah. I mean, they're an imaginary kind of horse, but yes, they're a member of the horse family. They're a member
Doree: Of a horse family. I'm going to just ignore what you said about them being imaginary. <laugh>, I'm going move on.
Doree: But that is really exciting. And, you know, I, I had my piano lesson yesterday. Mm. And my regular instructor was sick. And so I had a sub who, you know, I'd never met before and we were chatting and we were just sort of talking about like, practicing when you are gonna play in a recital. And I was like, oh, well, I was like, I'm not gonna play in a recital. Like, that's just, that's not why I'm doing this. And he was like, oh, oh, like, it, it was sort of like, oh, okay. And then, and then he did say, and I said, why, you know, why did you say that? He said, well, you play very well. And I said, thank thank you. Um, but he was like, I have another student. And I said, you know, I, I used to play as a kid. And it was very like recital oriented and like performance oriented. And I just, it wasn't like, I felt bad about it at the time, but like, that's just not what I want. Now. I wanna do this for pleasure. Yeah. And just, you know, enjoyment. Oh, I remember how it came up because I'd played, I'm playing three different pieces right now that are like wild, wildly different mm-hmm <affirmative>
Kate: And he was sort of like,
Doree: This is, this is very different. And I was like, yeah, well, you know, I'm just like, I'm just really just playing for enjoyment. Um, and he said that he has another student like that who is also an adult who played as a kid and is just like, just doing it for personal fulfillment.
Kate: That's amazing. Yes, I love so. And, and can I just note, like we are, I don't think, and again, I'm speaking very specifically, you know, my own experience as a human and all that, that means, but I don't feel like we are actively taught to do things for just pleasure, whether it's, especially as children and, uh, just talking about it with you is reminding me to be more conscious of how I communicate that to my kids.
Doree: Mm.
Kate: You know, I feel like it's just, it's just achieve, achieve, achieve, and it's
Doree: Yes.
Kate: You know? Yes. I mean, when, like, just doing things because you like to do them without being without
Doree: A sort of end goal that
Kate: Or measurable accomplishment,
Doree: Measurable accomplishment. Yes. That's interesting. That is very interesting, Kate.
Kate: Well, and it's hard, even for me as an adult to do things sometimes without thinking of the, like, you know, the outcome, what is this gonna deliver? What am I gonna make out of this?
Doree: It is just interesting to think about these things.
Kate: Yep. Very interesting.
Doree: The last time I played poker, my friends were like, well, you're ready for Vegas <laugh>. And I was like, Hmm. <laugh> like, that's the next step? Like playing in a casino.
Kate: Mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Doree: And I was like, I dunno, I dunno. I'm like comfortable with our friendly game. Is that okay? To just like, be comfortable with our, with our friendly game?
Kate: Yes. You don't have to like advance to the next level of anything if you don't want to.
Doree: Yes. Yes. I guess that's what I'm just like,
Kate: It's, it's fine. Just to be where you are. Like, you don't even need to climb the mountain, stay in the valley, you know,
Doree: Just
Kate: Like this fucking, this constant need to progress. Oneself is freaking exhausting.
Doree: It's exhausting. It's exhausting, you know,
Kate: We're just gonna keep chugging along. Yeah. And then just like, and then just die. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, that's not a way to live.
Doree: Mm-hmm <affirmative>, mm-hmm <affirmative> well, Kate, this is all very interesting food for thought, and it
Kate: Is
Doree: Kind of a good segue into introducing our guest who, you know, she kind of followed her passion.
Kate: Yeah. I don't wanna like say that I know what her unicorn space is here, but I do feel like she was so moved and inspired to get involved in local politics that she made a huge career shift and, and personal life shift.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Um, well, we're very excited to be speaking to Melissa Walker today on the show. You've heard us mention our forever 35 giving circle, which is part of the state's project. And Melissa heads up the giving circles, and she's gonna be talking all about what that means and how we can help support, uh, and change politics, uh, at a local level. Plus, she's gonna just tell us about her life. She grew up in chapel hill, she's the author of eight young adult novels, including violet on the runway series and small town sinners in the non-fiction world. She's a magazine editor and writer, and she lives in Brooklyn and she's just fantastic and inspiring and cool. Just cool.
Doree: She's cool.
Kate: And we are so excited to get, to be working with her and, um, the state's project, um, with our giving circle. So we can't wait to talk to her.
Doree: Yeah. And I just wanna say, you know, again, we we've talked about it. We talked about it a little bit on the pod before, but please do check out our giving circle, what the state's project is doing is so cool and so vital. And so just so important. And we started the giving circle, partly because we wanted to feel like we were making a tangible difference, but also because we've heard, like, I feel like we've heard from a lot of listeners who also feel sort of at sea in this moment and, you know, there's so many causes. Um, and it's hard to feel like the money you're donating is being put to good use, but I can say with certainty that donating to the state's project is putting your money to good use. So we will link. We will link to our giving circle in the show notes. It's also on our website, but please do think about donating and no amount is too small. You can donate a dollar, you can donate a quarter. I mean, it's really, yeah. So, okay. With that said, here is Melissa.
Kate: Well, Melissa, welcome to forever 35. We are really excited to have you here, especially because we have kicked off our forever 35 giving circle. So we're thrilled to get to talk to you more about the state's project and giving circles and how they can make an impact in local politics.
Melissa: Yeah. I'm thrilled to be here. So excited about your giving circle.
Doree: Yay. So wait, we love getting the little notification that our, you know, someone else has contributed. Um, could you just talk before? Well, we usually ask our guests about a self care practice that they have. So before we get into it, because I, like, we start about the state's project, we're just gonna be like off and running. So do you want to tell us about a self-care practice that you have?
Melissa: Yes. So this is a self-care practice that I will say I do not practice perfectly, but I aspire to do, which is I aspire to wake up before my family and have an hour in the morning before I look at my phone where I am making coffee, reading a book, or just sitting and staring out the window. I really wanna have that hour. I love it. When I do it, I feel like it makes me better for the rest of the day in all facets of my life. And yet it happens like twice a week. If I could get that to seven, I feel like I could just Excel. But for some reason, sometimes a phone comes in, sometimes a kid wakes up something's happening, but I try,
Doree: I love that you mentioned just staring out the window because I feel like that is a hugely underrated. <laugh> like just giving yourself that space to kind of just zone out. I mean, it is sort of meditative, but it's not meditation per se. Um, could you just talk about that a little bit?
Melissa: Yeah. Well, so in my, in my previous life as a writer, I thought that I just wrote for like two or three hours a day. And I was like, oh, I have the best job I write for two or three hours a day. And I write a book and it's great. And what I realized was that I actually had all this time before I wrote and all this time after I wrote, when I was just like walking around in my neighborhood, like going to the park, looking at trees. And I realized that I had created this space in my life that it was around my creative work that I didn't know I needed until after I had kids and I didn't have it anymore. And then I would sit down at the computer after doing everything in the morning. And I was like, I don't have any ideas. I can't write a sentence. Yes. What am I doing wrong? Yes. And I realized that it was that space. Ah,
Doree: And so
Melissa: I think that's still true. I mean, I'm not, I'm not writing anymore because I'm working in politics, but I still need that space to have like intelligent thoughts and ideas. I mean, it really is the place where it feels like the most exciting fertile moments come into my mind, you know? I mean, I've had some big picture ideas from staring out the window and I'll run and write it down in a notebook and then go back to the window. Cause I really believe in the window.
Doree: Yeah. I mean, it, it does sort of remind me of like, when, you know, I, I say this too, that like, I get so many ideas in the shower, you know, and I'm just sort of like zoning out. And so I do think like that's such an important part of the creative process is like allowing your brain, that space to just be kind of blank. Um, and we're so focused on, you know, productivity that giving ourselves that space can often feel like I sometimes feel guilty about it. Um, but obviously there's nothing to feel guilty about. Um, so let's talk about the state's project, um, which, you know, I think we've mentioned on the show before, before we started, when we started our giving circle, I mentioned that I had first heard about it from Virginia soul. Smith's burnt toast newsletter. Um, but I'd love to hear a little bit about how it came to be what it is and what your role is.
Melissa: Yeah, absolutely. So I feel like my story is very intertwined with the starting of the state's project because it was December of 2016. So it was right after Trump was elected and I was, you know, tweeting and calling Chuck Schumer and doing all the things that the internet told me to do. And it all felt a little bit like I was spinning in a hamster wheel and I couldn't figure out like how to get a foothold. Yeah. And I, I went to a publishing holiday party and there was a New York state Senator there, Daniel squadron. And when he spoke, it just blew my mind because he spoke about how much focus there was on federal races and how much focus there was gonna be on federal races. Yeah. But how there were these long ignored power centers, long ignored by everyone, but the radical right. And those were state capitals. And I started to understand that everything that I was worried about under a Trump presidency and everything that I cared about was actually being controlled in state capitals from healthcare to civil rights, to education funding, to choice, to, um, voting rights and gerrymandering mm-hmm <affirmative> it just was suddenly like, oh, I had no idea. State capitals had this much power. Yeah. And I didn't know who my state reps were at that moment in time. I looked them up in the cab home and I had never heard of them.
Doree: Wow. Wow. Yeah. So, so this was kind of a real, um, moment of awakening for you.
Melissa: It was, it was. And I, and I started to connect the dots on things that hadn't made sense to me, like the bathroom bill passing in my home state of North Carolina. I was like, oh, that, that, that was lawmakers in Raleigh. Who did that? And stand your ground gun laws and passing, let Trayvon Martin's murder go free. And I was like, oh, that was like people in Tallahassee whose names, I don't know who did that. And then it passed in 25 other states and even thinking about like the Flint, Michigan water crisis, it was like, oh, that's a Lansing problem, not a Washington DC problem. And all of those things right. Happened at our president Obama. Right. You know, so I started to realize like, oh, where are the control levers here on these kitchen table issues? And who's pulling them. And I had kind of, I started investigating and I feel like I've been in state legislative grad school for a few years now, but I started to realize that, oh, from 2010 to 2016, we lost nearly a thousand state legislative seats.
Melissa: As we watched Washington DC and felt really good about the direction our country was heading in. And in those states where we lost majorities in state senates and state houses, they made people's lives bad. They defunded education put in right to work laws, gutted environmental protections. And when people's lives got bad, they didn't say, oh, that must be my state Senator, let me have a talk with them. They, they blamed what they could see. They blamed Washington DC because that's what the media focuses on all the time. That's where the spotlight is. That's where we're trained to look and little, did we know that the roots of Trumpism were being seated in state capitals, by lawmakers who are mostly, part-time paid very little to go to the capital for a few months out of the year and decide things like healthcare in their state and decide things like every single voting right in their state and decide things like whether trans kids get healthcare, you know, deciding so much for people. And I started to say like, this is a place where I could focus because the other thing that, that New York state Senator said that night was it is often cheaper to change the balance of power in a state chamber than it is to win a single competitive congressional seat. Cause congressional races cost millions of dollars and state races do not. Wow.
Melissa: So I bring this all up as the origin story of the state's project, because it was that New York state Senator who then resigned from the New York state Senate that summer to start the state's project. And in the meantime, I went out and informed what would become the first giving circle with a bunch of other children's book authors. And we went and worked with the state's project in Virginia, which had elections in 2017 and we supported 10 candidates and nine of them won their seats. And the balance of power got so close that they had to expand Medicaid in Virginia, which let 400,000 people have healthcare who hadn't had it before. And we felt connected to that policy outcome. And I wanted to meet everyone who had started giving circles, but really not that many people had. And so I put aside writing to talk to people about how they could do this too, because it was the most powerful thing I'd ever done and the most impactful I'd ever felt. And I felt like I had a real foothold on how to make change at the foundations, not at the top. And that has felt really good to me and continues to be a therapy for me as I watch what is happening in the country.
Kate: I wanted to just note, like one of the questions that I threw into our document was quote, what gives you hope? Just hearing you say that I can hear the hope in your voice, like, and that it made me feel hopeful, which is so hard to come by right now in the current cultural and political state of our country. Um, and so I did wanna ask the question or pose the question to you about what gives you hope in this work. Um, but I feel like it's probably all, all connects back to that.
Melissa: It does. I mean, I'll say I feel like my hope has evolved a little bit. So to be honest in the beginning, when I started doing this work winning gave me hope, you know, I was like, cool, we've got the Virginia House of delegates really close. And then in 2019 we helped flip it. You know, we helped flip the main state Senate. We broke a super majority in North Carolina. Like we got Arizona, four seats flipped in the house, closest balance of power since 19 66, 1 more to go to tide two to win. Like I felt like this is it. Like, I, we can do this. We can do this together. It's working, we're building. And it felt amazing. And 2020 was a holding ground year. And it was a year when there was a huge surge Republican voters. There was a huge surge democratic voters, but it really, it was, it was meeting a wall in a certain way and holding ground became incredibly support important, but it didn't feel as great as the winning hat.
Melissa: And I tell a story about the day after the 2020 election where we, we were having a staff meeting and I kept having to turn my camera off cause I was crying. And um, our political director called me after the meeting, um, our political director, Andrew Greenwold and he said, um, he said, Hey, I noticed that you were upset during the meeting. And I was like, yeah, I'm upset. This was really hard. And you know, we weren't able to flip the chambers. We needed to flip and I am upset. And he said, I know, and don't take this the wrong way, but you're kind of new to this, you know, you've been winning. And I was like, yeah, it feels much better. Well, are you gonna stop now? And I was like, no. And he was like, you fight and you lose and you fight and you lose and you fight and you lose and then you fight and you win.
Melissa: So what's the consistent part. And I was like the fight and he was like, that's right. And I just like, I hold that story because I think it's important because I have moved into the place where the fight gives me hope and where it feels to me, like, you know, all the things action is a muscle, like hope is a muscle. Like we have to just keep building. And if I weren't taking action, I would not have hope. And so that's really where I find hope. I find hope from being in the arena. And the best way that I know to be in the arena is organizing people to organize their people, to get these strategically chosen races, the resources that they need to change the thoughts of power in state chambers. So gives me hope.
Doree: I mean, you're giving me hope same. So I guess that's,
Melissa: I have amp in my step right now that
Doree: Really just made me feel good. I, I wanted to ask if you could elaborate a little bit on, uh, something that you touched on, which is that the right kind of always knew that these were the levers of power, um, and that for whatever reason, the left was focused on national race, why was that?
Melissa: Well, I think there are probably a lot of reasons for it. Um, I think, you know, for the, for the radical, right, there's a, there's a return on investment for corporations and billionaires to have states doing things like deregulating. Um, and they really did organize though in this way that, I mean, Carl Roe wrote an article for the wall street journal. I think it was in 2014. That was like, it was literally subtitled, whoever controls Congress or whoever controls, state legislatures controls Congress. And I was like, I found it when I later in 2016 and I was like, wait, did anyone read this article? They laid out this plan, it's called project red map. Like, were people paying attention? That's a really obvious name. And um, they told us
Kate: Literally right there,
Melissa: Whole thing outlined. And so I, you know, I think that it's hard to turn our heads away from the shiny objects and from what's covered in the media. And I do see state legislatures in the news more and more, but honestly I feel like it still doesn't connect the dots fully. Like people will say lawmakers in Texas, just Bann abortion. And, and my friends will say that Ted Cruz and I'm like, no, this has nothing to do with Ted Cruz. This is people in Austin whose names you don't know who are technically like officially in session once every two years. And they're deciding this. And so there are a lot of state legislators to keep track of. There are a lot of districts, there are a lot of, you know, things to know it's unwieldy, it's not shiny. Um, and I think it's hard to pay attention and certainly with the decimation of local news and local newspapers, which those were the places that covered state capitals and what went on in the legislatures, it's just harder and harder to follow.
Kate: So let's talk about the giving circle and really, uh, if you can walk us through and introduce this idea to our audience of listeners, because we've talked about it on previous episodes, but obviously you are the, you are our leader or fearless leader in this process. So I'd love to hear exactly what they are and what they do and what the goal is.
Melissa: Yeah. So giving circles really provide the electoral engine for the state's project. So they raise the electoral dollars that we need to go in and target these, um, these races that we need to shift power in the states. Um, giving circles start with a leader or a leadership team that come together and essentially do the work of mapping their network and saying, who would like to join me in this project. And it really is a math problem. So, um, I will give you a preview. We're about to launch something where we're gonna try to get a hundred giving circles, raising a thousand dollars each and raising a thousand dollars is, you know, asking 25 people for 40 bucks each or a hundred people for 10 bucks each, you know, there's a, there's an amazing thing that happens when you map your network and you make it a math problem because we can all get there and together we can be a hundred giving circles, raising a thousand dollars each we can be a hundred thousand dollars.
Melissa: And in these races, in these states, that is hugely consequential. And so our giving circles community is one that comes together and raises the amounts that we need to go in and just make sure that the state caucus is ready with campaign managers and field directors, the infrastructure we need so that these candidates have a shot to win their districts. And winning these districts really is about voter contact and it's about the candidate themselves knocking on doors. And that gives me a lot of hope too, because these are still local races. These are still races where they wanna be talking about the local schools, the cracks in the sidewalk, um, the soccer field, you know, whatever's going on in that community. And so supporting the candidates to go out and do that instead of having to scramble and build their own infrastructure is, um, something that we do. And that feels really important. But giving circles come together and do that math problem and decide on a goal and then begin to reach out to friends, sharing videos and stories. And we provide a lot of sample language and tools so that everyone can reach out, explain why state legislatures are so important and get people focused on this really overlooked place in our government.
Kate: Okay, well, let's take a quick break and will be right back. All right. We are back.
Doree: I'd love for you to talk a little bit about something that you mentioned when we first have a phone conversation about the giving circles, which is that, um, the state's project doesn't typically focus on, or I shouldn't say typically you don't focus on individual candidates, you focus more on infrastructure. Um, and that, that can, I think that can feel like in today's climate almost counterintuitive because, you know, you'll see on Twitter, like, oh, this person is running in Kentucky. We need to like flood her with donations or, and it, it can feel very like individual and you guys are saying, well, actually, like that's not the most effective way of, that's not the most effective, um, method of sort of funneling our money towards progressive causes. Uh, so could you talk a little bit about
Melissa: That? Yeah, absolutely. So we are very focused on the majority. So to be able to pass bills, get laws <laugh>, um, into action. You need to have the majority in a state legislature. So it's really never about one individual hero. It's about the collective votes that it takes to change policy. And so when we go into a state we're really looking for where are the districts that we think are flippable or need protection vulnerable, and how can we build a new majority that's gonna improve people's lives. That's really what we're looking for. So we do, we do go into a state and we have an eye on those districts. We do talk to candidates and endorse candidates in our states, but a lot of our work is focused on working with our local partners on the ground, which most of the time is the state caucus, which is the entity in the state.
Melissa: That's exclusively focused on state legislatures. And what we wanna do with the state caucus is have a real partnership and, um, you know, relationship where we're working very closely with them talking about budgets and spending and figuring out where we need to put the most resources who needs field directors, how we can, you know, build this majority because that's what matters. If we get one star elected, they could get elected and not be able to pass a single thing, no matter how great their ideas are. So we need the math to the majority and that's when we can start, you know, the process of getting good policy done. So that's what we're talking about when we talk about that. And I think that there's a real, you know, it's easy, look, everyone loves a face and a story and a great video. Um, I fall in love with candidates all the time and I promise I will send $10 at a time.
Melissa: If your video makes me cry, I will do it. I know it's not <laugh> I have to take you cry. I sat to the bar <laugh> yes. Yeah. I have to, I have to tear up, but then I'll do it. Okay. You know, I'll better if it's laughter through tears better, if cry and smile, mm-hmm, you know, <affirmative>, that's a real winner, maybe 20 for that. Mm-hmm <affirmative> but I, I do. I know, I also know that that's not strategic. It's just to make me feel good. Mm. And I need a place to put my strategic dollars. So I actually have told my mother who's kind of a strategic or she not a strategic giver. She's an emotional giver that every time she gets mad at Mitch McConnell or somebody and wants to give, she should write that down in a notebook and then add it up.
Melissa: And after a month, just give it to my giving circle. And she has done that. And it has surprised her how much she has given, because a little bit here and there $25 here, $50 there, $10 over here, it can, you know, people will spend in 2022, this is gonna be a very emotional election year. That emotional money is gonna fly out. But what I love about giving circles and what we really wanna do with it is to help people have a really transparent and strategic giving process so that you can see what total you're part of you get an impact report after the election. So you can see what it resulted in, who won, who lost, how close was it? What are some of the stories that came out of this election? How did we make a difference? And that to me is incredibly important because I think people wanna see their engagement in this process and they wanna know what happened. You know, we know that a lot of federal candidates from 2020 finished with millions of dollars left over in the bank, you know, Sarah Gideon and Maine in her losing campaign against Susan Collins had 15 million left over. And that was more than our entire budget. Wow. In 12 states. So, you know, we know that people do give politically, it's often very emotional. Let's get more strategic.
Kate: I mean, emotional giving, I feel like sums up my whole vibe. That is like, you just nailed. I've never heard that phrase before, but boy does that speak to me because it is woo. Like I see, I react and I just throw the money out. And, and, and this, the idea of having some strategy behind it is so helpful because politics is both emotional and strategic.
Melissa: Absolutely.
Kate: <laugh> sorry. I was like, just like you just held a mirror up in front of my face. I didn't processing this a little bit.
Doree: Um, Melissa, I did not realize this sounds weird, but I did not realize who you were when we first talked to you.
Kate: <laugh> that's, that's what I said, Doree. I did not know. And then I was on your website and I was like, oh my God.
Doree: Yeah. So, I mean, you have written a slew of ye books. Um, you wrote for magazines for years, and you were the founder of iHeart daily, which was a newsletter that I loved. Um, for teen girls. I was not a teen girl at the time, but <laugh> that's okay. Oh
Melissa: My gosh. Thank you. Yeah, no, one's brought up iHeart daily yet, so I'm so excited about that. Oh,
Doree: I loved iHeart daily. Um, so yeah, I mean, I feel like you and I have had similar career career trajectories, except that you have now gone in the direction of like fermenting, actual, uh, change on the ground. And I host this podcast, but, um, anyway, I was wondering if you could talk just a little bit about that, um, career shift, because just from what you said, kinda timeline wise, you were still working in media when you heard this, um, when you heard Daniel squadron speak and I'm wondering how you made that shift happen. Um, and what switching over to a completely different field. I mean, you know, you're not old, but you're also not 22. And so, you know, we get questions like this a lot, like, oh, I'm 35, like, is it too late for me to switch careers? Um, so I was hoping you could talk a little bit about that.
Melissa: Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, it's an odd trajectory. I always joke with our current team, like I never, would've gotten a job here. If I had like submitted a resume people would've been like what this Y author wants to work here. No. Um, but what, I mean, what really happened was I just felt like after, I mean, this is a boring, old story, but after the Trump election, I felt like, what, what can I do here? Like where can I plug in and use? I don't know my storytelling or, um, some packaging that I've got from my magazine years. Like what, what can I do here? And what I realized I kept writing for the first couple years that I was involved in the states project, I was doing my giving circle. I was leading my giving circle as a volunteer. And what I realized was that there was a lot of storytelling in politics and, oh my gosh, could I, could I activate that emotional giving when talking about state legislatures, I mean, ultimate challenge, but you know, it really did kind of help, I think, shine a light.
Melissa: And I formed my giving circle with other children's book authors. And so we were like telling the stories. We were telling stories about state lawmakers. We were talking about the change we could see happening in Virginia after we had worked there, like, and it felt like we were drawing people in and, you know, kind of whispering to them like, listen, there's this indie band over here, state legislature. They're really good. Like everyone's over at the main stage, come on. And it really, like, I think that those skills helped translate. Um, a lot of the political stuff. I still stop the political team all the time. And I'm like, I dunno that word. I, whatever phrase you, whatever acronym you just used, I have no idea. And also no one will never like no one else will either. So let's translate. We're translating for people all the time.
Melissa: And I think that is helpful. Um, but I, I kept writing books for the first couple years. I had a book contract. Luckily my editor became part of my giving circle <laugh> so she saw what I was doing. And when I said, I need to pause on this so that I can do this political thing full time. She was like, yes, that's absolutely what you should do. So that's where I've been. I will say I am an introvert. I'm probably half, half inter introvert extrovert, but my job right now is like 90% talking to people. And I do think that my inner introvert is like crying in a corner and wishes. She could go back to coffee shops and writing and headphones on. Um, and so I hope to do that one day, but my writer, friends keeps reminding me that like, life is good for writing and I have to be what's happening in our country right now scares me so much that I feel like if I weren't really devoted to something that I think can have actual impact and maybe even bring us back from the brink of the loss of our democracy, I have to do it.
Melissa: And it gives me great comfort to be doing it
Doree: Well, Kate, it's been fun doing this podcast.
Kate: I mean, bye. We started a giving circle as a podcast team, but an individual, like any person can start their own giving circle. It's not just a tiny podcast business. You don't need to, you know, have a certain amount of Instagram followers or whatever. It's about tapping into your own individual network.
Melissa: Yes, exactly. And really it's very true. Anyone can do it. And like, if you can get two or three friends to do the project with you all the better, because then you have a team and you can watch your goal, you can watch it grow. You can start tuning into the news a little differently. I mean, I will say a lot of giving circle leaders tell me that they've started reading the news and understanding, oh my gosh, this is the state legislative majority. That's doing this, this isn't people we've heard of this isn't Washington DC. And when you start to read the news differently, you really start to understand where the power centers are. And I think it's really important also that people tune into their own state legislative districts. You know, like we have this kind of strategic plan to shift power in certain states where we see a path and it's really important that people pay attention to what's happening in their own state legislatures and who is their representative, because that is a person who has an office on your main street. And you can go talk to them because they don't get as many calls as your congressperson. They will have a meeting with you. If you need to, like, this is a place where you can really get involved locally. So organizing the giving circle. Absolutely. And I will say if folks started giving circle and let us know that it was the forever 35 podcast that brought you here, you know, we can, we can track that community, which would be awesome.
Doree: Yeah. I know there's at least one listener who already had their own giving circle, um, before we started hours. So it's definitely something that is kind like out there, um, in the, in the ether. Yeah. Um,
Kate: And friend of the pod, you know, Busy and Casey have a,
Doree: Oh yeah. Busy and
Kate: Casey, they have a giving circle.
Doree: I mean, they
Kate: Do. It's the cool
Doree: Thing. I was just gonna say, cool. Girls have
Kate: Giving circles. <laugh> gorgeous. Gorgeous girls have giving circles as the tiktok meme says
Melissa: GGS have GCs.
Kate: There we Go. I wanted to know how you stay focused and stay energized. And if you set any boundaries for yourself in terms of like news consumption or participating in social media, because this is your, I find it exhausting as just a citizen when you are involved in politics. I imagine it can be overwhelming. So is there anything that you do to kind of maintain your mental health and your mental wellbeing through your, you know, in relation to your job?
Melissa: Yeah. Um, definitely. I think that, I think a lot about how I, I live a pretty comfortable life physically. Like I am, you know, I live in Brooklyn, I have two little girls. Um, we have, you know, we have an apartment that's great. And we, you know, I get tired and I get exhausted. But a little while ago I was reading the, um, the March graphic novels, the John Lewis trilogy, which is amazing. If you haven't read it, it's incredible. And I started to think about like, who really gets tired. And I was like, you know what? John Lewis probably got tired quite a bit. Mm. And in that context, I don't actually get that tired. You know, I, I get mentally exhausted, but I can always lie down for a little bit. I can always take a rest and then come back to it. And I make space for that to happen because it's absolutely necessary.
Melissa: People have to take care of themselves and can't burn out because if you burn out, then you're done with the work. And if you're done with the work, then you're not taking action anymore. And that's when we lose, but I do live a comfortable life. And the pain of what's happening in this country has not come to my doorstep yet. You know, when, when the road decision leaked, I of course immediately thought about my daughters, but the truth is that my daughters will always have access to the reproductive healthcare that they need because we have resources and we can get it for them, but other people's daughters may not. And so it is my job to do everything that I can to try to change that. And I will not get tired of that. I will get tired on a daily basis sometimes, you know, I'll sit down, I'll drink some tea, I'll take a night off, but long term, we can't get tired. And especially if we are the ones living comfortable lives and worrying in our heads, it's okay to let your head take a break, but then get back to it because there's work to be done.
Kate: I think too, what you mentioned in Roe in so many states, there are already so many restrictions and it's those restrictions put in by state governments have closed so many abortion clinics that it's already virtually impossible for many people to access reproductive care and abortion care. So I think you connect a great point there, especially in terms of what's going on with the Supreme court, you know, the pending Supreme court ruling that has leaked.
Melissa: Yeah. I mean, I will tell you that, you know, the weekend in, I guess it was 2018 when Brett Kavanaugh was confirmed. I remember my husband coming home from work. Um, and I said to him, like, I need you to watch the kids all weekend. I need to go out and find more people to do giving circles, because this is about to get thrown to the states for real, it's already been in the hands of the states really, but it's about to officially be in the hands of state legislative majorities, and that is getting lost. And I went out and I think we got like seven new giving circles that weekend, which was at that point, incredible cause we had like 20 total. And so it really was a galvanizing moment. And that was like over two years ago, but we knew this was coming and you know, the people who've been doing giving circles for that long have known. And we had a big moment when Ruth Bader Ginsburg died. A lot of people formed giving circles called things like for Ruth and, you know, may her memory be a revolution and all of those things. And it's, it's been, it's been a big galvanizer for folks and I'm very appreciative of the folks who tune, who tune into state power when this comes up, because that is our final line of defense. And it's where the fight is. So it's just, we're welcoming a lot of new giving circles right now, which is, which is good.
Doree: So excuse me, we are talking to you the day after some state elections. Um, can you, can you give us sort of like the lay of the land where things stand now?
Melissa: Yeah. So there are, there's just been some primaries. Um, and we are in, as you mentioned, I think, um, we're in eight states now actually. Um, and where, the reason why we're in those states is because we see a path to the outcome we want, which in some states is to shift power completely. In some states it's to protect a vulnerable majority in some states it's to defend against a super majority. It varies. But, um, what we saw happen yesterday were primaries. And so our, one of our target states, Pennsylvania had primaries yesterday. So we see some candidates emerging there, um, and we've already done our district assessments. So we're kind of ready to go, um, in terms of endorsing post-primary in Pennsylvania and what we're kind of what we're seeing is that Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Michigan are the three states where we're really trying to shift power in terms of potentially taking a new majority, um, and ending a right wing <affirmative>.
Melissa: And those are states where, um, in Arizona it's one seat to end, right wing control with a tie and two seats to flip either chamber that's so close and yet it's incredibly difficult while at the same time holding onto seats that we need to protect. So it's incredibly important to keep that margin close and maybe even get over the top with it because we have to be able to fight for Arizona. And in Michigan, in each chamber, Michigan actually has better maps than we've had in a while because of a ballot initiative that, um, put the redistricting in the hands of an independent commission and so better maps in Michigan. And we recently helped win a special election there, which flipped a very red seat. And so now we only need two seats to tie in the state house, three seats to flip and three seats to tie in the state Senate, four seats to flip.
Melissa: And you know, that is close. And I, when I say Michigan, now I have to mention Senator McMorrow who you may have heard. She had an incredible speech. Yes, that was all over. And you know, that is the kind of heroism that happens in state legislatures. Let's get her the majority, you know, like this is the kind of thing where there is a spotlight every once in a while on a state lawmaker. And by the way, it's where we build the bench. Barack Obama was a state Senator, Stacey Abrams was a state rep in Georgia. This is where it's built. It's also by the way, built there on the other side. So focusing there has returns well into the future as well. Um, and in Pennsylvania, we need to flip 12 seats on better maps than we've had in a long time. So we've got 20, 22 and 2024, you know, this is a long game and it's something we're sticking with.
Melissa: Cause like I said earlier, the fight gives me hope, bolding ground close margins. Give me hope. And that's the other piece that I think is really important to remember. These races are one by incredibly close margins. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it is wild in 2019, we were in Mississippi and we worked with a candidate named Hester Jackson McCray, um, to help her win her seat. She won by 14 votes. Wow. And is the only, um, black representative in a district that is majority white and it was incredible. So these margins are incredibly close. It's very often a couple hundred votes even, you know, couple thousand votes it's it's wild. And that gives me a lot of hope too. Cuz it's local, local, local.
Kate: We can't let you go without asking you what your skincare routine is because we must subject you to all the questions we ask all our guests. So Melissa, do you have any skincare products that you use and love? Do you have a skincare routine or are you a water splasher and go to bed or do you use pros?
Melissa: Okay, great question. I am a little bit of a water splasher I definitely don't use a lot of products, but I will say actually one of my giving circle leaders <laugh> gave me the some oil. Ooh. Um, and I thought at first that I didn't really know what to do with it. And I was like, you know, I felt like a kid. I was like, what do I do with it? What do I, and I, and I put it on. And then I went on a zoom call and my, my coworker was like, what, what did you do with your skin? You are glowing. Whoa.
Kate: And I was like,
Melissa: Oh my gosh, I am so excited about this. So those little S sporty bottles of oil, I'm sick. I'm terrible. I don't even remember the brand. Like that is something that I put on every once in a while if I wanna glow. Um, and I also, I was influenced and I use, uh, I don't even know how to pronounce it. Is it Guha? Yes. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I, I do, um, a little Guha at night. I don't know if it's doing anything, but I find it soothing and like a nice physical transition into like read and bedtime.
Kate: So I think that is what it's. I think that is doing something. Yeah.
Melissa: Oh, I would say so too.
Kate: I love it. Well, it's been so great to have you on the show. I'm feel, I'm feel so. Like you've given me so many things to feel optimistic and inspired about and by, and, uh, can you tell our listeners where they can find more information on the state's project and giving circles? And we of course will link to our forever 35 giving circle in our show notes on our website, on our Instagram, please join us because no donation, there, there can be no,
Doree: No donation is too small.
Kate: No give whatever you can.
Melissa: No minimum, no maximum. Yeah. That's what I like to say. Um, yes. So we, you can find us@statesproject.org. If you're especially interested in reproductive rights states, project.org/choice is a great place to go to learn more about how state legislatures are really on the forefront of this battle. Um, and we would love to have folks join your giving circles, start their own giving circles, just get involved, like look up who your state legislator is there's a great states. There's a great site called open states.org where you can do that and just know about this area of government. That's so incredibly imp important and impactful, and is a place where you can plug in with a few friends and really make a difference. It's wild. Um, yeah. And I appreciate the time and your amazing giving circle. It's fun to watch it grow
Doree: Well, thank you so much. This was truly a pleasure and we're really excited to be working with
Melissa: You.
Kate: You know, I feel like I left this conversation feeling, uh, like I can make an impact, which is often not how I feel mm-hmm <affirmative> right. I'm often like, what is the point? Yep. Dooms day dooms day.
Doree: Well, and also what I, what I like about this in particular is they're playing the long game, which yes, the Republicans,
Kate: You love a long game.
Doree: I love a long game and the right wing has been playing the long game for decades. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and like now all the, like, they are reaping what they owed and they are pleased about it. And like, we need to build that foundation as well. And so, you know, I really like that. This is what, you know, it's not, it's not reactionary. It's not, you know, this panic kind of one off thing. It's like an ongoing project. So I just think it's so cool. And I also left that conversation feeling so energized and also like feeling empowered.
Kate: Yeah. I think that's a lot of it, especially as this, there's just this continuous stripping of rights, uh, you, you feel disempowered, you know? Yeah,
Doree: Totally.
Kate: So it was great to talk to her. I'm really excited to be doing this with you.
Doree: Me too. Well, Kate, so
Kate: Yeah. Story.
Doree: Did you not push it?
Kate: No, I've been taking it like mega easy.
Doree: Oh, good. So you didn't, you did not push it.
Kate: I did not push it. Right. Okay. This is how I'm gonna phrase that. Yes. Okay. Didn't push it. I've really been trying just to listen to my body. I mean, I listen to my body. Just like, just take it easy. Even if my body's like, go, go, go. I'm like, no, you shut up.
Doree: <laugh> shut up body.
Kate: You don't tell me what to do body. I mean, sometimes you do, but yeah, I just,
Doree: The boss of me,
Kate: <laugh> no, I'm the boss of my body. So yeah. So I did take it easy. I'm starting to feel better. I still have a cough. Um, and I am still recovering from hand surgery. Look, I've just got a lot going on over here, but um, happy to be here. Happy to be on the end.
Doree: So Kate this week
Kate: Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Doree: Okay. Now we're reading between the lines here. I am gonna go out on a limb and say you've been going to bed too late.
Kate: No, actually Doree, I haven't. Okay. So as, as we've we shared that we were a part of this really fun project with, um, the newsletter over at the Neste. Yes. Where they each gave Doree and I a budget and were like, Hey, you tell us what you think would enhance your self care practices and we'll get it for you when you try it out. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and I purchased the aura ring. Do you know what that is?
Doree: I do. But do you wanna explain for the benefit of our listeners,
Kate: It's basically essentially like a body and sleep tracker that you wear in your hand. And it's not something I ever wanted to spend my own money on, but when someone was like, here you go, here's a little bit of money. I was like, okay, great. I'll buy one. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because it's expensive. It was it's like, I got the gold one and it was, it's like 400 bucks. Okay. So
Doree: As your you're fancy,
Kate: I am, look, I love nice things. I just don't wanna bite them. <laugh>
Doree: I get it. So
Kate: I get it, you know, it puts me in a tricky position. So I've been wearing this ring and it really kind of like, it tracks when you sleep, it tracks your sleep efficiency and it suggests it like it monitored my sleep for like 10 days. And then it was like, Hey, your ideal bedtime is between 10, 15 and 1115. And I was like, okay, ring, thanks for letting me know.
Doree: Okay.
Kate: I have been after I put my kids to bed, which ends around nine o'clock. I just go and get ready for bed and I get into bed and I've also been taking, um, some magnesium at night. Oh, okay. I'm just gonna shout out the brand. And that helps me relax and fall asleep. So I actually, last night I fell asleep at 10 30. So I've been taking the good day chocolate calm supplements at night.
Doree: Okay.
Kate: Yeah. So I, I have, I'm gonna keep kind of trying to maintain this. I also really liked that it gave me a window because I think sometimes when it's like, I'm gonna be in bed at 10 30 and then it's like 10 35 and you're like, I failed. But instead of it's like your ideal bed times between 10, 15 and 11, 15 mm-hmm <affirmative> then that gives you like so much leeway, you know,
Doree: Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Kate: So I'm kind of into this aura ring, I'm enjoying using it. It's, it's very easy to wear. So that's what I'm at. All right.
Doree: Great. For you
Kate: Moving on, you, you, your intention was to enjoy your break. You took some time off for your birthday, which is so wonderful.
Doree: Um, and I did enjoy my break. I did enjoy my break. So, and, you know, as I said on, I think on the last podcast, I'm very grateful to you for covering for me and for, um, recording early with me so that I could have some time off from actually recording, which was great. Your,
Kate: Your gratitude is accepted and welcomed. I that's very nice of you.
Doree: Um, and then this is building off of something that I mentioned on the pod the other day, but I need to get back in the habit of moving my body every day, because for my mental health, it's just like so necessary. So I'm, I kind of like let that fall by the wayside and side and I just need to get back into it. And I did go on a hot girl walk the other day,
Kate: I'm very into
Doree: Hot girl walks and it was great. And it was like half an hour. It didn't, you know, it doesn't need to be super long and it was very relaxing. So thank you Kate for suggesting it.
Kate: I mean, thank you, Anne sh for suggesting it to me via her Instagram. So <laugh>
Doree: Um, all right, well that brings us to the end of the show. Let's just remind everyone that forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir, and you Kate Spencer and produced edited by Sam Junio. Sam Reed is our project manager for network partners. Acast he'll talk to bill again so soon. Bye bye.