Emma Straub on Boy Bands And the Joy of Middle Age
New York Times-bestselling author Emma Straub returns to the show to talk about the nostalgic inspiration for her new novel American Fantasy, why everyone should befriend their childhood crush, and feeling the joy of middle age while surrounded by middle-aged women. Plus, Emma comes armed with recs for what you should read next this summer.
Photo credit: Alpha Smoot
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Transcript
The following transcript is AI generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to February 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:17):
And I'm Elise Hu, and we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Doree Shafrir (00:21):
And today we have the one and only Emma Straub, author, bookstore owner, just delightful human, return Forever 35 guest. Although I was like, oh yeah, we had her on a couple years ago cut to, oh, that was 2020, not a couple years ago. Not
Elise Hu (00:43):
A couple years.
Doree Shafrir (00:44):
What is time, Elise?
Elise Hu (00:47):
I feel like we had a similar experience with Mary H. K. Choi.
Doree Shafrir (00:50):
Yes.
Elise Hu (00:51):
The last time she was on was like 2018.
Doree Shafrir (00:54):
Oh my God. Time just has flattened.
Elise Hu (00:59):
Yes. And Emma was the perfect person to talk about that because her previous book is about time travel or there's a time travel storyline this time tomorrow and it's really lovely. And so we talked a little bit about how in middle age time both moves fast and very slow. So it's like that elasticity. Physics, it's weird.
Doree Shafrir (01:21):
Totally. Totally. Or
Elise Hu (01:23):
Time. It's weird.
Doree Shafrir (01:25):
Yes. Yes. I mean, I think also when you have kids, time moves in a different way because I was like, oh, 2020, Henry was one.
Elise Hu (01:36):
Right, right. Yeah,
Doree Shafrir (01:37):
Because they're experiencing such
Elise Hu (01:38):
Leaps and bounds
Doree Shafrir (01:39):
In
Elise Hu (01:39):
Their changes.
Doree Shafrir (01:41):
Whereas
Elise Hu (01:42):
From when I was 20 to when I was 29, before I had Ava, I don't know, it's all one blur. It all feels generally the same.
Doree Shafrir (01:52):
100%. Yes. But then
Elise Hu (01:54):
When I was 30 to 39, it's really different.
Doree Shafrir (01:58):
Right, right, right. Exactly.
Elise Hu (02:00):
Anyway. Oh
Doree Shafrir (02:01):
My goodness. What else is going on with you?
Elise Hu (02:05):
Well, by the time that this airs, the kids will be back from camp, but currently we're getting ready for sleepaway camp. They only go for a week, but it's a great opportunity for them to be together and in a rustic environment. And they're not going to have iPads or the comforts of home. They're sleeping in cabins of 10 kids or eight kids each. And last year they came back and really liked it.
Doree Shafrir (02:33):
I was just going to ask, have they gone before? It sounds like they have.
Elise Hu (02:36):
Yeah. So this is the second time for everybody. Luna went when she was a second grader going into third, and this year she has a friend going who's going for the first time, so she's going to be kind of the veteran. Nice. And Issa has some friends going this time too. Ava does not, and so she is not happy about it and has been grumbling. So I hope that by the time we record this, she will actually have gone because as I have mentioned, she's 5'10" now, so I'm not going to be able to drag her body into any situations that she doesn't want to go to. Right.
Doree Shafrir (03:12):
Yeah. She has her own agency now. I mean, she always did, but now even more so. Now
Elise Hu (03:17):
I can't be like, "We're going."
Doree Shafrir (03:19):
Right, exactly.
Elise Hu (03:20):
So we'll see how that goes. I'm excited for them. Two out of the three girls are very psyched. It's such a summer thing to be at camp,
Doree Shafrir (03:29):
I think, and
Elise Hu (03:29):
Sing campfire songs and do the whole rite of passage that is camp.
Doree Shafrir (03:35):
Well, and also in our day and age that we live in now, for them to be off screens -
Elise Hu (03:42):
It's a big deal.
Doree Shafrir (03:43):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (03:44):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (03:44):
It's a big deal. Even if you're not a screen heavy household, there's just screens around all the time. And so to get them away from that for even just a week is amazing.
Elise Hu (03:58):
Absolutely.
Doree Shafrir (04:00):
Speaking of camp, I don't think I mentioned this on any of our previous episodes, but Henry did a rookie day, a trial day at my old sleepaway camp.
Elise Hu (04:12):
Which is so
Doree Shafrir (04:12):
Cool. Which is so cool and so fun. And I was so impressed and surprised that he actually stayed the night and was cool with it. And Henry watches YouTube on a TV. He doesn't have his own iPad, but he consumes quite a bit of screen time, I would say, more than I would like, but just for various reasons, he ends up watching stuff. And I was like, "How's he going to do? There's no screens." And he didn't even mention it.
Elise Hu (04:50):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Doree Shafrir (04:51):
Yeah, it was so interesting. I guess official wake up was at 8:00 AM, which is late for him. He's up at the crack of dawn.
Elise Hu (05:02):
Oh my gosh.
Doree Shafrir (05:04):
He said he woke up at 6:00 and he just sort of laid in his bed. And I was like, "Well, look at that." You know what I mean?
Elise Hu (05:15):
You don't have to get out of bed when
Doree Shafrir (05:17):
You wake up. Right. But just the fact that he didn't even mention it, I was like, "Oh, this is really interesting." I don't know. It's like he was in an environment where it just wasn't available.
Elise Hu (05:29):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (05:30):
And he's really
Elise Hu (05:31):
Capable, it
Doree Shafrir (05:32):
Sounds
Elise Hu (05:32):
Like. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (05:33):
Yeah. So that was very eye-opening in a lot of ways.
Elise Hu (05:37):
Oh, I'm so glad that he got to do that. And I'm so glad that you got the night off too, because he was staying
Doree Shafrir (05:42):
Overnight,
Elise Hu (05:43):
Right?
Doree Shafrir (05:43):
Yes, he was staying overnight. We got to hang out with Matt's friends and it was really nice. But I was literally waiting by the phone for them to be like, "You need to come get him." Or, "He's really homesick. He won't stop crying." I don't know. You think of a million scenarios. And I was also like, "He's never spent a night away from home without us. He stayed at his grandparents a couple times, but he's never stayed at a friend's by himself or anything like that. So this felt like a big leap and he just totally rose to the occasion.
Elise Hu (06:21):
I love that about kids. I love the way they level up when presented with something new. So it's great that Henry got to do that both for him and for you all.
Doree Shafrir (06:29):
Yeah,
Elise Hu (06:29):
Totally. Totally. And then next year, do you think that he's going to go to camp, the same camp as you, as a legacy, I guess, at the sleep away camp?
Doree Shafrir (06:39):
When we picked him up and we were walking to the parking lot, the first thing he said was," Can I come next year? "I was like," Wow. Wow. "And they have a two-week program for first time campers, or you can stay the full session, which is three and a half weeks, or stay the whole summer. I mean, kids his age typically do not stay the whole summer.
Elise Hu (07:06):
And it
Doree Shafrir (07:06):
Feels
Elise Hu (07:07):
Long to be away.
Doree Shafrir (07:08):
It's long. It's long.
Elise Hu (07:09):
I don't want to be away for the full summer, I don't think. No.
Doree Shafrir (07:13):
But I was like," Oh, do you think you would want to go for two weeks or for the month? "And he was like," Well, what do you think? "And I was like," I don't know. I don't. I don't know.
Elise Hu (07:27):
"Yeah. It sounds like he's interested though. The bottom line is no matter what the length of time
Doree Shafrir (07:32):
He's
Elise Hu (07:33):
Away, the most important thing is that he is eager and interested and
Doree Shafrir (07:39):
Wants to do it. Yes. So that was a real. I don't know. It was one of those things where sometimes I feel like I'm always looking for the line between pushing him to do new things and see what he's capable of, but then also meeting him where he is. But if he had expressed any true reservations or said he didn't want to go, of course we would've been like," No, you don't have to go. "But he was interested. So I don't know. It was an interesting parenting moment for me. Oh,
Elise Hu (08:11):
Good.
Doree Shafrir (08:12):
Well,
Elise Hu (08:13):
I mean, it sounds like the kind you want. So there's lots of interesting parenting moments, but that one is one that
Doree Shafrir (08:18):
You want. That's so true. Anyway, I hope your girls have so much fun.
Elise Hu (08:23):
Yes,
Doree Shafrir (08:23):
Me too. And you get a nice little break too.
Elise Hu (08:26):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (08:27):
Yeah. Well, let's introduce Emma. She is the New York Times bestselling author of seven books for adults and her novels, including her new one, American Fantasy, which we talk about, which is such a fun book. This time tomorrow, All Adults Here: The Vacationers, Modern Lovers, Laura Lamont's Life and Pictures, and her short story collection, Other People We Married. She's also the author of three picture books, Gaga Mistake Day, which she would co-work with her mother, Mama Hug, and Very Good Hats. She's a Guggenheim Foundation fellow, and her work has been published in more than 20 languages. Emma and her husband own Books Are Magic and Independent Bookstore in Brooklyn, New York. We have very good hats. It's a very delightful children's book, so I can recommend it.
Elise Hu (09:21):
Oh, I love that.
Doree Shafrir (09:22):
Okay. It's very cute.
Elise Hu (09:23):
I like her novels so much. I didn't even think of her as a children's book author as well, but she is that prolific.
Doree Shafrir (09:30):
Totally. I haven't read the other two, but Very Good Hats is very charming. Okay. And just a reminder, you can call or text us at 781-591-0390 or email us at forever35podcast@gmail.com. We are doing our You Ask, We Answer episodes every other week. So please call or text or email us with your questions, your comments, your concerns, your feedback. We want it all. Our website is forever35podcast.com. We have links to everything we mention on the show. Our Instagram is @forever35podcast. If you want more of us, which why wouldn't you? Why
Elise Hu (10:07):
Not?
Doree Shafrir (10:07):
Yeah, why not? You can get more of us at patreon.com/forever35. We have a free level where you get our semi-monthly newsletter, which is super fun. We have some pod highlights, bonus content. Sometimes we do some giveaways, some discounts. It's a good time. And then at $5 a month, you get access to our casual chat, which is our weekly gab fest, which is now on video. We do live casual chats every quarter. You get access to our community chat on the Patreon app, and there's a lot more as well. And at $10 a month, you get ad-free episodes and a shout-out on the podcast to thank you each and every month. And you can shop our favorite products at shopmy.us/forever35. We are going to take a short break and we'll be right back with Emma.
Elise Hu (11:00):
We'll be right back.
Doree Shafrir (11:09):
Emma, welcome back to Forever 35. So nice to see you again.
Emma Straub (11:14):
It's always a pleasure. It's always a pleasure. Very happy to be here.
Doree Shafrir (11:18):
I couldn't believe when we were going back through our notes, I couldn't believe we last talked to you six years ago. It really doesn't seem like it was that long ago, but it was quite some time.
Emma Straub (11:28):
The older I get, six years, does six years feel like a long time? In some ways, yes. But in other ways, no. Totally. I'm like, "Oh, right. Oh, right. All right. Here we are marching through time." Yes. I was thinking today, did I feel when I was 35? I'm now 46. When I was 35, did I feel middle-aged? No, I didn't.
Doree Shafrir (11:57):
I
Emma Straub (11:58):
Felt young, even though when I was 35, I had my second child and was a geriatric pregnancy. I still felt like, "Ha ha ha, geriatric pregnancy. I'm so young." And now I'm like, "Oh, no, no, no. Actually, I was young and now I'm not." It's not that I think I'm a decrepit crone, it's just that I certainly don't feel young anymore.
Elise Hu (12:28):
Well, tell us, since it's been several years now and it was during the COVID vortex when you were last on Forever 35, what are you doing that you would consider self-care?
Emma Straub (12:38):
So I do facials. I have a personal trainer. I go to the gym twice a week and I pump iron. Those are the big things. Those are the big things, I would say. And other things like indulging myself in pounds of cashews from tahatis. Is that self-care? I guess it is. I guess it is, but not as directly maybe.
Doree Shafrir (13:07):
Emma, you brought up strength training, which made me think about perimenopause because I feel like the conversation right now is about how all of us women who are in perimenopause need to be doing strength training. And so first of all, I'm wondering if that was at all a motivation for you, and then also what do you make of this conversation around perimenopause right now?
Emma Straub (13:29):
Yeah, I love it. I love it. I am all for women sharing their experiences. I think that TikTok is a glorious place. Maybe it's because I'm not fluent, I don't know how to do it. All I know how to do is open it up and absorb what it has prepared for me. But what it prepares for me are women lifting weights and/or wearing weighted vests
Doree Shafrir (14:06):
And/or
Emma Straub (14:07):
Making themselves amazing looking complicated salads with a lot of protein. And I'm like, "I want a complicated salad with edamame beans in it or whatever." So I am all for it. Lifting weights, I would say I have "gotten in shape" or been in shape at a few different points in my
Doree Shafrir (14:44):
Life.
Emma Straub (14:46):
In my 20s, I did a lot of yoga. I was all in on yoga, and then I had children and I stopped all that. Okay, so maybe there have only been two times in my life. Just thinking about it now, just thinking about it now, really, it was just then and now. But it's so different. I mean, now my goals are different than they were then,
(15:20):
And I want to be strong and I want to be able to sit down and stand up when I'm 85 years old. I am just in it for the long game. And the other day I was walking down the street with my husband and my two children, two boys who are 10 and 12, and one of them was sort of flexing his muscle a little bit, and I flexed my muscle. And when I tell you that the three boys in my family gasped, they gasped at my muscle. That's amazing. I have never been so proud because I'm not doing that. You know what I mean? I'm not flexing in front of the mirror at the gym. I'm just picking up what my trainer, Michelle, tells me to pick up. I'm just doing whatever Michelle tells me to do and trying to make Michelle laugh as much as possible and just trying to be her favorite.
(16:27):
That's all I'm doing. It's the same thing I've done in every class setting I've ever had. I just want to be the best one she's got. And having visible muscles has been a shocking byproduct.
Elise Hu (16:46):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Doree Shafrir (16:48):
That's amazing. Well, I think that's also a good segue to talk about your new book, which is so delightful, American Fantasy, because one of the main characters in the book is a 50-year-old woman named Annie. So tell us about the new book and what inspired it and all the delicious things about it.
Emma Straub (17:12):
Sure, sure. So I mean, what inspired it? I mean, you could say, one could say that I researched this novel for about 35 years. And you wouldn't be wrong. You wouldn't be wrong. Okay. I loved The New Kids on the Block when I was a child. I loved them more than anything, more than Paula Abdul, more than Madonna, more than Janet Jackson. And that love never went away, and it stayed inside me like a little seed. So my last novel, This Time Tomorrow, was all about my father dying. And I mean, I loved writing that book. I loved it so much. My father lived to read it. He read it 20 times, and he loved it, and it gave us this amazing final few months.
(18:28):
It was beautiful, and I loved it, and it'll probably always be the most meaningful writing experience of my life. And I cried all the time. I cried all the time, every day. And after the book came out, I was looking for something that would bring me joy. And I was on Facebook, which is always a cool place to say you're hanging out. And I saw something about the New Kids then annual cruise. So this was in 2022, and I got so excited because I could see it all. And I mean, I've written a lot of novels at this point, and this has never happened to me before, but I could see the whole thing. I could see - Wow. Number one, I could see that it was a novel, you know what I mean? A boy band, an aging boy band cruise, perfect. I could just see it.
(19:36):
And I also could see the pleasure that it would give me to write, and the pleasure that it would give me to spend my days in that deranged world. And I couldn't go on the cruise that year because it was weeks away, but I did go the following year. And in that time in between, I did all the work. I actually figured out who the characters were and what the story was and all that. And so that's really where it came from.
Elise Hu (20:18):
So you have to say more. What was it like being on a cruise ship with a bunch of middle-aged women?
Emma Straub (20:25):
Okay. So as an adult, I have been to many New Kids on the Block concerts. I mean, at that point, I had probably been to, I don't know, two or three, enough to know the scene. And so I thought I knew who I was dealing with. In that year, I had joined several fan Facebook groups,
(20:57):
Which were intense, which were and are remain kind of intense spaces. And so I thought I knew who I was dealing with, but when I got on the boat, I had just truly revelation after revelation. I realized, I mean, it started right away, and this is straight in the book. This went straight into the book, but the first thing that happens on this cruise is what they call the sail away party. They have this on every cruise. I've gone on other cruises because my in-laws are very big cruisers, and so I've gone on other kinds of cruises too. But for the New Kids Cruise, everyone, 3000 women are standing on the Lido Deck, that's the top of the boat where the pools are, whatever. And they all are weeping and chewing and screaming and dancing. It's what happens at a crowded public beach or in a Korean spaor.
(22:07):
Korean spa, sure. It's one of my favorite things in the world when you look around and you realize, oh, everyone's body is hilarious and perfect. Some are bigger, some are smaller, some are taller, some are shorter, some are wider, some are dimplier, whatever. We're all so beautiful. So I was already having that sort of experience, but we're all middle-aged too. We're all middle-aged. And what I realized was just how profound it is for there to be thousands of middle-aged women,
Doree Shafrir (22:51):
Women
Emma Straub (22:51):
Who are in dead center of their lives taking care of children, taking care of school, whatever, or your aging parents or your work environment. Middle-aged women take care of everything. This is not a revelation to other middle-aged women. But I just looked around and I was like, "Oh my God, these women have all chosen to prioritize their own pleasure for four days, four days. It's a long time. This is what the world needs, is happy middle-aged women." And after that, I was like, "Well, damn, this book is going to be different than I thought it was going to be."
Elise Hu (23:39):
Okay, let's take a break and we will be right back.
Doree Shafrir (23:48):
So tell our listeners what the book is about. It's four days on this cruise. Give us the quick synopsis of what happens.
Emma Straub (24:00):
Yes. So basically it's about this woman, Annie, who is 50 years old, newly divorced, and newly empty-nested and having trouble at work. And she doesn't really mean to go on this tour. She's supposed to go with her sister, but her sister then breaks her leg and can't go. And so she's there by herself, and it's really Annie gets her groove back. It's like Annie learns to be who she is now and learns to embrace who she is now. And then we also have Keith, who's one of the members of the aging boy band, and he's doing that too. Keith is a melancholic sensitive man in his 50s, and I just love him so much. He would really rather be in a bathroom on the floor of his hotel room. He is not happy to be there, and he is so appreciative of these women who have given him his career for the last 40 years, and he doesn't want them to touch him.
(25:18):
It's complicated. It's complicated, and I just loved living in this world. So really, it's Keith and Annie making their way through this experience.
Elise Hu (25:32):
And Emma, I remember listening to an interview of yours when the book came out earlier this year, and you mentioned wrestling with this period in middle age when a lot of us have already checked the boxes that we were supposed to have checked of professional life and personal life, and then what? And asked the question of, I still have another half of my life to live. What kind of insight did you gain about this particular period just by exploring it, not just with yourself, but also on the page in fiction?
Emma Straub (26:07):
Yeah. I mean, I guess what I have learned, and I mean, I think I knew this already, but whenever I start novels, it's never because I think it's never that I think I know things. It's always, "I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Let's explore." But what I have really come away from this novel, from writing this novel thinking is that enthusiasm is vital, and excitement is vital, and discovery is important. It's not only important when you're six years old and you love dinosaurs or whatever, to learn everything about dinosaurs. What keeps people young is learning and curiosity. And so I think for me, my homework from this is to get a hobby or a few, or just to have that we're never too old to have profound interests. And yes, the New Kids on the Block, when I tell you my family is tired of the New Kids on the Block, they are so tired of The New Kids on the Block, but it has become this interesting thing in my family that I don't really think had happened before this book where I brought something to my husband and children and said, "This is a thing that I'm interested in, or this is a thing that I care about.
(28:08):
Here's why. Here's what I'm thinking about it. Here are the players." And to have them fully engage with it, it's been wonderful. It's been wonderful. And they know a lot of boy band songs now, not just the New Kids on the Block. They really - They know the
Elise Hu (28:34):
Oldies.
Emma Straub (28:35):
Their range is pretty good. They definitely know the oldies. I mean, I would say BTS is where my knowledge truly falls off a cliff in terms of boy bands, but I do have some other middle-aged friends who know everything about BTS, and so I can talk to them about that too. It's been really fun to bring something to the group.
Elise Hu (29:07):
Awesome. Awesome. I love that. And then you got to meet or speak with Joey McIntyre, from what I understand, for research too. So what was that like for you? What was that like for young Emma?
Emma Straub (29:26):
So what I will say is that thank God it started. Okay, so the name droppy part of this story is that Lin-Manuel Miranda is my friend, and he is the one who put us in touch. And every day I thank Lin-Manuel Miranda for that, because I think that if it had come. I don't know. It's just like, do you say no to him? No,
Elise Hu (29:56):
You
Emma Straub (29:57):
Don't say no. If he writes you an email And is like, "Oh, will you talk to my friend, this genius novelist? He wrote the nicest email I have ever read about myself."
Doree Shafrir (30:09):
Oh, I love that.
Emma Straub (30:10):
And so that really just made it a slam dunk that Joe would at least talk to me. But yeah, I mean, we started talking, so I guess it was the spring of 2024, and he was terrific. I had so many questions, so many questions just about, I don't know, what does it feel like? What does it feel like to be in your 50s and to still be working with these same guys who you have been yoked with since you were 12? And starting there. And he was so open with me and willing to have honest, unvarnished conversations, and it was wonderful. Very cool. He exceeded all my expectations for sure. And he continues to be very nice to me. I wrote to him today because my German publisher wrote to me this morning or through my agent or whatever, and said that they want to change the title.
(31:34):
And I mean, this happens, not infrequently. With the
Elise Hu (31:37):
Translations.
Emma Straub (31:38):
Yeah. But they wanted to change my title for American fantasy to Back for Good, which is a take that song. And so I told him that and he thought that was very funny. But it's great. It's great. I mean, now he's just my friend. And I dragged my entire family to Las Vegas to see The New Kids on the Block. And we got to hang out with him a little after, and when we left, my 12-year-old said, "Wow, that's the first famous person I've ever met." And I was like, "That's so not true." He doesn't realize - It's so not true. He knows so many famous people. But what I think he meant was I got to meet someone who's really important to you.
Elise Hu (32:37):
You
Emma Straub (32:38):
Know what I mean? And I was like, "Oh, okay. Well, that's very sweet." Yeah. And unexpected pleasure. I really do recommend it to everyone though. Befriending your childhood crush, it's a really entertaining psychological experiment to do on yourself.
Elise Hu (32:57):
All right. Call me Hugh Grant.
Doree Shafrir (33:00):
Yeah. Kate Spencer and I went to a New Kids on the Block concert a few years ago with N Vogue and Rick Astley. And it was amazing. And it was very similar vibes to what you're describing. And I felt very at home among all of these women. Yes. So I really enjoyed that aspect. But I'd love to switch gears a little bit. You mentioned your bookstore, Books Are Magic, which iconic at this point. So let's talk a little bit about books right now. What are you reading right now?
Emma Straub (33:43):
So right now I'm reading Fall. I try to read. This past year I started a first edition club at the bookstore, which has been so wonderful. And like many things in my life, it's just Anne Patchett's fault. I was at her house and she was like, "Why don't you have one? You should have one." Because Carnassas
Elise Hu (34:13):
Books has one, right?
Emma Straub (34:15):
Alot of my friends remember that one. Carnassas has one. Yes. And so I was like, "Of course you are right. Yes, I will get right on that." And so really much of my year, I mean, it's been a funny year for me for reading because I have been reading for the First Edition Club, so really trying to pick just my favorite for every month.
(34:42):
There's no other rubric. And then I'm always reading for blurbs and things like that, but I have really fallen off the blurb train this year. Being on book tour and with the ramp up to my publication, I just found that I just could not read. I just couldn't read for months really. But I will tell you what I'm reading now for summer and fall that is really fun. So for July, my pick is Daniel Mason's Country People. So he wrote a book called North Woods that came. I mean, he's written a bunch of books, but Northwoods was a big hit. And Country People is so fun. It's like two academic types and their family moved to Vermont from California.
(35:37):
And basically the wife and the couple is gainfully employed and busy, and the man is just like, I don't know. He's in theory writing a dissertation, but not really doing anything except falling deep into local lore and going off the deep end a little bit. But it's really fun. It's a fun, fun, fun summer book. Colson Whitehead, Cool Machine out in August. Colson is like, oh my God. There are a few writers like Anne and Colson where I'm just like, this is so cool. It's so cool to be aging alongside them and to just watch their careers happen and to watch them experiment and play. Colson, what I love about Colson's work is that you never know what he's going to do. He's always doing something different. I mean, he's got themes broadly speaking, but sometimes it's a coming of age summer book and sometimes it's zombies and sometimes it's slavery and sometimes it's crime in New York City.
(37:08):
I don't know. He goes all over the place and he really lets himself explore. And this book Cool Machine is the third of his Harlem trilogy, he's calling it, I believe. And they're like fun New York City crime novels.
(37:26):
And it's just a delight. It's a delight.
Elise Hu (37:29):
Those are books for summer, but what about the first half of the year? Have there been standouts for you from the first half of 2026 that you just want to shout out real quick while you have a chance?
Emma Straub (37:41):
I mean, I will say Anne's book -
Elise Hu (37:45):
Whistler.
Emma Straub (37:47):
Yeah, Whistler. Anne to me is just perfect. She's just perfect. She's perfect. I'm not even able to be articulate really. I mean, what I said to her about Whistler is that her books, Whistler, but her books in general feel to me like they are built like mystery novels in which there is no horrible crime. There's no body, but they're intricately built and so solid and so satisfying. If Anne could write just a hundred more books, it wouldn't be enough for me. She's my absolute hero. She's the only star in my sky. Well,
Elise Hu (38:42):
Join the club, the Giant Club, because this is the fourth time I think this summer that Whistler has come up on this podcast because I have been going on Anne Patchett and Whistler reveres nonstop. So it's so funny that you have just gone on one. Emma, what's next for you before we let you go?
Emma Straub (39:03):
I'm writing a new book. I'm writing a new novel and little by slow, I'm keeping track of all my little words that I write and I'm trying to do it while my children are at their various patchwork day camp.
Elise Hu (39:22):
We know that well.
Emma Straub (39:25):
God, it's not easy, but it's fine. Yeah. I mean, I love my job. I love my jobs. I love my jobs and I love writing fiction. And I don't know. I often have conversations with other writers where they're like, "Don't you just feel like writing fiction is torture?" And I'm like, "No, no, never.
Doree Shafrir (39:52):
Actually
Emma Straub (39:52):
Not. To me, writing fiction is the best job in the world and I am so happy to do it.
Elise Hu (40:03):
And well, we are so happy to be the beneficiaries.
Emma Straub (40:06):
So
Elise Hu (40:07):
Emma Straub, thank you again for coming on the show.
Emma Straub (40:11):
Thank you. Thank you.
Doree Shafrir (40:15):
Yay. Emma was so great. Thank you, Emma, for coming back on the show. And we are in the intention zone now. Last week I said I was going to start the playroom clean out and I'm happy to say that I did start it.
Elise Hu (40:34):
Yay. Yay.
Doree Shafrir (40:38):
This week I'm going to continue the clean out theme and get into my closet a little bit more because I had to go to something recently and get a little bit dressed up. It wasn't formal or anything like that, but I did look a little bit nice and I was going through all my sort of nice clothes and I was like, "Nope, don't like that. That doesn't fit." Just everything was like, "Ooh." And so I was like, "I've been way too selective about what I'm getting rid of. I need to do a full. It all needs to go."
Elise Hu (41:20):
Yeah, but you have a Depop account. You can just D-Pop
Doree Shafrir (41:22):
Everything. Yes, totally. I will totally make some money. I hope so. So stay tuned for that, everybody. Oh, also, I should say, if you want to follow me on Depop, my user is Forever Doree. So my shop is Forever Doree, so you can follow me there.
Elise Hu (41:44):
Yeah. It sounds like you're about to be posting a lot of stuff too.
Doree Shafrir (41:46):
Yes, I will be posting a lot of stuff. Yeah.
Elise Hu (41:50):
For me, I wanted to just have ease, a week of ease, and I'll tell you more about it in the next episode and during our casual chats, but it is so restorative, I think, to get away and it's so necessary. And we got away just the two of us too. So instead of having a big family trip like we often do, it's just Rob and me. That's
Doree Shafrir (42:14):
Awesome. It's
Elise Hu (42:15):
Incredibly, it's so much cheaper, first of all. It's so much more affordable. And then two, very nice and it feels indulgent even. So that's lovely. And this week, the intention is to lock in. I got to lock in. I got to go back heads down because a lot of July, because I was kind of recovering from June, which was so topsy-turvy, I've been just trying to emphasize just pleasure and ease, but I actually am getting close to having a rough assembly of the documentary. Amazing. And the editor's been working nonstop. And so I really just need to lock in and make some editorial choices and work with her and make sure our budget's on track and all those things. So that's what this week is going to be about.
Doree Shafrir (43:04):
Cool. That's awesome. All right everybody, thank you so much for listening. Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir, Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Samee Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast. Thanks everybody.
Elise Hu (43:21):
Thanks. We'll talk to you next time.
Doree Shafrir (43:23):
Bye.