Product Recall: Maybelline Great Lash Mascara
Doree asks Kate the age-old question: was she born with it or is it Maybelline? They learn that this famous brand was only possible because of one woman’s singed lashes and sex workers, how Maybelline likely started the drugstore make-up aisle, and of the secret romance between the creator of Maybelline and the company’s marketing bigwig.
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Transcript
Kate : Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Kate Spencer.
Doree: I am Doree Shafrir.
Kate : And we are not experts.
Doree: We're not, but we're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate : And today we are bringing you another episode of Product Recall, a weekly episode where we dig deeper into the history of an iconic product and it's lingering impact <laugh>. Most cases it lingers.
Doree: And we're doing these episodes every Friday here on Forever 35. We're also taking requests.
Kate : Mine was requested by the one I'll be working on. I'm not doing it right now, but next, the one we're recording later.
Doree: You're not the one I did. Well, we talked about this last week, but the one I did last week on St. Ive's Apricot Scrub was requested at the same time that I was deciding to do it. So I was really in a mind meld with our listeners. But if you want to suggest something, you can call or text us as (781) 591-0390, and you can email us at Forever35podcast@gmail.com. We also post all of our sources for these episodes on Forever35podcast.com. We're on Instagram at @Forever35podcast, and you can join the Forever 35 Facebook group where the password is serums. You can also sign up for a newsletter at Forever35podcast.com/newsletter.
Kate : I want to encourage you, if you're like here and you're like, I don't think I'm going to listen to this. I don't want to learn about an old product. This is a fun ride <laugh>, where we get into a lot of unexpected shit.
Doree: It's true. It's really true. And this one we're going to talk about today is a doozy
Kate : Is it really?
Doree: I definitely, there were definitely things that were surprising that I was surprised by.
Kate : You are our guide today on this.
Doree: i Am Your Guide today. Also, just before we start, I just want to put in a plug for our new merch on Balance Bounds.
Kate : Oh My gosh, it's so cute. I was just drinking out of the My horse Girl mug.
Doree: Kate Is drinking out of her very cute horse girl mug. I've been wearing my reframe the narrative sweatshirt constantly.
Kate : Yeah, it's, it's delightful.
Doree: It's all delightful. And that's at Balancebound.co/shop/forever35. Now, Kate, I want to ask you something. Okay. There's no wrong answers. Okay?
Kate : Okay. Deal.
Doree: But when you think of the iconic beauty slogans of the last, let's say 30 years, what is one that comes to mind?
Kate : I mean, I can say the one for the product off the top of my head for the brand that you're doing. Maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's Maybelline. Okay.
Doree: Yes. I mean, it's like that is just seared in my brain forever, right?
Kate : It is. And you know what, as I was kind of racking my brain when you asked the question, and I kind of went through, I'm going to date myself a Rolodex of brands, and I was like, cover Girl. It can't, it's not popping to mind. Revlon, the other kind of thing I can sing is the Cindy Crawford Charlie Perfume commercial. That's like the only other thing that comes to my brain. But
Doree: Charlie Perfume, for example, is not really well known now.
Kate : No, no. And I also, I would love to know, because you're doing a Maybelline product, is that still the slogan? Do they still say maybe she's born with it, maybe it's Maybelline?
Doree: No, they don't. But that was the iconic slogan of our youth and our adolescence. That slogan started in 1991. That slogan was coined in 1991. No way. Yes.
Kate : Did they, they have a slogan before then, because Maybelline's been around for a while,
Doree: Right? Maybelline has been around for a while. They had some catchphrases that they used, but nothing as iconic as maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's Maybelline.
Kate : I would love it if in the seventies they were like, you're a piece of shit until you put on Maybelline. I love the evolution of slogans. They think they're being like There's often this feeling that they're getting savvier and kind of more dipping out of beauty culture, even though they're still beautiful.
Doree: Yes, yes. So today we're going to be talking about Maybelline great Lash mascara,
Kate : A fucking legend,
Doree: An iconic, truly an iconic product.
Kate : I would Say one of the most top five most famous makeup products ever.
Doree: Yes. And part of that, and I was saying this to Kate because I have the product here with me. I have their OG Maybelline Great Lash Mascara in very black. The packaging that the green and pink packaging is essentially the same packaging that they have had since they launched the product in 1971. No, the shape has changed and things have changed. The font has changed, but the color scheme has stayed exactly the same. And I would bet you, if you asked a thousand American women our age within 10 years of our age, if they could picture a tube of Maybelline great lash mascara, they would be able to picture it.
Kate : Yes. Because it's colors are that classic pairing of hot pink and then neon pea green. What a pairing.
Doree: What a pairing. Okay. So today we are going to be talking about the development of Great Lash Mascara, but also the history of Maybelline,
Kate : Who is Maybelline
Doree: the History of mascara.
Kate : Oh, no, we are going to it.
Doree: We are Going deep. First, I want to play you a commercial from 1992.
Kate : Okay. Okay. I'm 12. Okay.
Doree: Says some women have amazing lashes.
Kate : Was that Nikki Taylor?
Doree: Are they born Lucky
Maybelline Comm...: Maybe She's born with It, maybe its Maybelline
Kate : I can sing that jingle in my fucking sleep. Okay. Maybe it's maybelline that just it's so burned in me. And that was model legend Nikki Taylor in the mix in there. Right.
Doree: So, Great Lash Mascara is one of the top selling beauty products of all time.
Kate : This mascara to me, is the one that's always professional makeup artists keep this in their box. Yes. This is the secret of all of celeb Makeup artists.
Doree: Totally. Totally. So in 1971, when they launched this mascara, Maybelline had been around for decades. The company actually started in 1915.
Kate : These Companies are all so old, it's wild.
Doree: And they started as, it wasn't called that then, but they started as a mascara company. And we'll get into that in a bit. But Great Lash was kind of a revolutionary product when it launched. It was the first water-based mascara.
Kate : What were they made out of before then?
Doree: At the time, most mascara's were solvent based, and they tended to repel water. So you needed an oil-based remover to take them off.
Kate : You were essentially putting on shoe polish on your eyelashes.
Doree: Yes. Yes. Petroleum was in a lot of these products. So that was one thing. And then the green and pink color scheme was actually inspired by Lily Pulitzer.
Kate : Ooh. Now that is fascinating. So real kind of like waspy, Palm Beach. Yes. Moomoo.
Doree: Yes. The pink and green, the iconic pink and green.
Kate : Yes. Very, very seventies prep.
Doree: Yes. So that is where that came from.
Kate : Interesting.
Doree: Yeah. And I think Maybelline from the beginning did an amazing job at selling itself as kind of high end almost, but inexpensive. They advertised in Vogue, but then you could buy them at Woolworth's.
Kate : So we're talking in the seventies when this mascara came out, that's where they were Advertising.
Doree: So yes. Okay. So in the seventies, in 1972, right after they introduced to their, they had a full page ad in Vogue, and it says, the ad says, Maybelline introduces great lash. The protein mascara.
Kate : Protein
Doree: Protein, great Lash mascara is the greatest way to make skimpy lashes look thick, thicker, thickest, special, creamy formulas. Creamy, smooth formula builds lush new body onto lashes, microscopic photos prove great lash greatly increases the diameter of every lash blah, blah, blah. And then there on the bottom, it says, the finest in eye makeup, yet sensibly priced.
Kate : Oh, so that is the selling point.
Doree: Yes. And here, Kate, you can see this was the original tube.
Kate : It looks exactly like the tube that's sitting on the table in front of you.
Doree: Yeah. It has the green cap. It has the pink body. The colors are slightly more muted, but it's hard to say whether that's just because of this is a vintage ad. The lettering on the pink is gold. Whereas now Kate says it has more of kind of an eighties vibe, actually, but it's recognizable as great lash mascara.
Kate : Also, there's so much text in that ad. It's like a book.
Doree: But I feel like that's what older ads always used to be
Kate : Like. Sure. We'll give you tons of information. T
Doree: Totally. And you could buy it. At the time, I found an ad in Woolworth for Woolworth's in a newspaper, and it was a dollar 27. Okay, that's great. Yeah. And one of Maybelline's older mascara products that had launched in the sixties called Ultra Lash Mascara was 67 cents. So the ultra lash was more expensive, more exciting.
Kate : You mean not the ultra Lash was more expensive.
Doree: Sorry. The Great Lash was more expensive, right? Yes. So
Kate : Just adding a dollar to the price tag made it Well, it's like an upsell, essentially.
Doree: Yeah. Yeah. Made it an upsell. And you see this kind of throughout the seventies and eighties, how they are pitching the product and who they're pitching it to. If you remember, a lot of the product recalls that we've done already, a lot of the ads were kind of sexy, a lot of sex selling right. In the seventies and eighties. And Maybelline with Great Lash takes kind of a different tack. They're really targeting like the working woman. Okay. So it's a commercial from 1986. And Kate, what you will see in here, well, actually I want to hear what you see. Okay. I'll do a play by play. Okay.
Kate: Woman in a bed on the phone laughing, an older woman opening a window, a vet with a puppy, happy birthday. A woman can't believe someone celebrated the birthday. And then a running professional, all white thicker is flirtier. Another white lady, sassier White lady
Maybelline Comm...: Thicker is great Lash mascara by Maybelline more than just thick it conditions as it thickens. And lashes can't get any thicker
Kate: Than this. A woman with a lot of hair lash
Maybelline Comm...: Conditions as it thickens by Maybelline
Kate : Looking my best feeling, my best, my best. So that was pre, maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's Maybelline, but the vibe is the The same a little bit. Oh, actually, no. I would say the vibe is different. It's kind of like all these Women are just having the best vibe moment of their life. When that lady opens the window. Yes. It's like she can't believe the window opens,
Doree: but she is old.
Kate : Yes. She looks full on 75.
Doree: Yes. And that was what I found so interesting about this ad it you have women now, as you pointed out, they're all white. They're all, I would say conventionally attractive. Yes. But age wise, they are very diverse. So
Kate : yes. It's strange almost. I've never seen that. Right.
Doree: So you have, first you have a girl who looks like she's in high school. I mean, she looks older, but I think she's supposed to be in high school.
Kate : The person on the bed chatting. Yes. Yes. Very high school.
Doree: Yeah. She looks like she's in high school. She's on her bed, on her phone.
Kate : And thenDown the hall, her Grandmother opens a window.
Doree: Opens a window. Then you have a woman who's a vet, who looks like she's in her thirties, maybe. Then I think a wealthy looking middle-aged woman celebrating a birthday at a restaurant with a handsome silver Fox husband. Yes.
Kate : Yes. And she's like, oh my God, I can't believe he arranged with the server to get me a cake with a candle.
Doree: With a candle? Yes. Then you have a woman in a pussy bow shirt.
Kate : Wait, those are called pussy bows. I've never heard that. That's the most terrible thing I've ever heard.
Doree: I'm sorry. That's what they're called
Kate : pussy Pussy bow. Yes. Oh, I'm going to vomit.
Doree: Who looks like she's on her way to work. Very working girl.
Kate : Right. She's taken it to Wall Street.
Doree: Yeah, exactly. And then you get a very pretty woman in glasses, like reading a book. Who winks when the voiceover says thicker is flirtier. And this is kind of as sexy as it gets, right. It's not the overt sexiness. And the only man in the whole commercial is the silver, silver fox.
Kate : Silver fox, who's very cute.
Doree: And then thicker is sassier. You get a very eighties looking woman, like an enormous hat.
Kate : And then there's a gal at the end with the most voluminous eighties hair you've ever seen.
Doree: Yes. So I just thought this was really interesting to me. It seemed like what Maybelline is saying here is this mascara is for everybody.
Kate : If you're white,
Doree: if you're White. Although in the sixties, they were running ads in Ebony Magazine with black models.
Kate : Interesting.
Doree: Yeah. But anyway, this commercial, yes, everyone is white. Right?
Kate : But I think I see what you're saying.
Doree: What IThink they were going for sure was this idea of this is the every woman's mascara. Right.
Kate : We can all look our best, feel our best. Yes. And have thicker flirtier lashes. Yes. Which by the way, have you ever looked at someone's lashes and been like, Ooh, flirty?
Doree: No.
Kate : Yeah. Right. Never.
Doree: And in 1987, there's an article in the New York Times and they quote someone as saying that Great lash sells as well to 14 year olds as to 60 year olds.
Kate : That's interesting. Yeah. How often do you think that happens? Probably not at all.
Doree: I don't Think very often. So that was one of the things that I found really interesting about this product in particular, how broadly it was adopted across age groups.
Kate : I wonder which came first, the chicken or the egg. In this situation, did they target teens to Octagenarians, however you say that word? Or did just all folks adopt it and they were better Just market it? Because I often feel like often I find what happens with advertising is the people you market it to aren't always the people who pick it up. And you almost have to adjust.
Doree: Yes. I mean, I think as we'll see in the next segment, I think Maybelline as a company was always really good at appealing to a wide range of consumers.
Kate : Should we take a little Break?
Doree: Let's take a little break, and then we're going to get into the history of the Maybelline Company. Buckle up.
Kate : Okay. I have my seatbelt fastened.
Doree: Okay, Great.
Kate : And I want to say I know nothing about the history of Maybelline. I absolutely couldn't tell you a single thing about the company other than it's product. I've bought their products.
Doree: Kate, I too knew nothing. But here we go. So I want you to go back to the turn of the 20th century. There is a young couple in Kentucky named Thomas and Benny Thomas is a boy. He's 16. Benny is, he's 16. 16. Benny is 14. Stop it. Okay.
Kate : Wait, Thomas and Benny, do they have a last name?
Doree: Thomas Williams. Okay. Benny gets pregnant.
Kate : No, they aren't married at This point.
Doree: They are not married, but they elope and get married by a justice of the peace. Her father is furious and insists on getting the marriage a nulled. Oh, gross. And Thomas's father, who's kind of like a big wig in town, he's like the sheriff and prominent family. And he's like, this is so embarrassing. And he encourages Thomas to leave town. So Thomas is kind of like entrepreneurially minded and decides he's going to go to Florida.
Kate : Does He leave Benny?
Doree: Le Benny? Benny is home at home. Yeah. He's kind of forced to leave Benny Thomas.
Kate : Thomas better make a ton of money in Florida and send it all back to Benny, who then lives her best life.
Doree: So Benny goes to Florida because he has this idea that he is going to try to sell fruit to Northerners, sell Florida oranges to Northerners.
Kate : I mean, When my grandparents used to spend two months in Florida, they would send us grapefruits. And they were the best grapefruits I'd ever had.
Doree: Unfortunately, Thomas doesn't really think about the cost of shipping.
Kate : I mean, he's like 16.
Doree: He's 16. He loses all his money.
Kate : oh Man. Okay.
Doree: So he comes home kind of tail between his legs, but his dad is still, and not, his dad doesn't tell him to leave, but he's embarrassed at this point. And he decides to go move in with his brother in Chicago.
Kate : And again, Benny's just fucking at home in Kentucky at home with a kid.
Doree: Yes.
Kate : I don't like this.
Doree: He starts working at Montgomery Ward, the mail order catalog, and he says he wants to start his own mail order business someday. So that's Thomas In 1915, Thomas's sister Mabel.
Kate : Oh, I see where we're going here.
Doree: See where we're Going with this has a little accident while she's getting ready for a date. She singes her eyelashes and her eyebrows. So Thomas in 1915 is 19 years old, and he sees Mabel after she singes her eyelashes and eyebrows,
Kate : Probably just blowing out a candle while reading Pride and Prejudice or something like that.
Doree: She uses a homemade mixture of petroleum jelly, coal dust, and burnt cork to darken her eyelashes. And she refers to it as something she learned from a harem secret.
Kate : Okay. Mabel.
Doree: Because at the time, eye makeup was not considered proper. Ladies only used powder and creams, eye makeup was considered the purview of sex workers. Yeah. So you were considered sort of slatterly if you used eye makeup. So she was only using this because she had literally singed her eyelashes and eyebrows off
Kate : Doing God knows what.
Doree: But she was like, but hey, I know this secret. And Thomas is like, huh. Well, that's interesting.
Kate : I see. So a man is going to steal an idea from sex workers, is what I'm learning. and he's like, I'm going to take all the credit. Oh, Thomas. God damn you.
Doree: So he tries to make his own mascara for Mabel. He's basically mixing potions, but it doesn't work. So he gets a chemist to make it for him. And then Thomas and his brother and his sister start packaging it on the stove of their Chicago boarding house. And they call it Lash Browine, which is a combination of eyelash eyebrow and Vaseline
Kate : Lash Browine
Doree: Lash Browine. And here I have an early advertisement for Lash Browine. And the headline on the ad is Secret of Beautiful Girls.
Kate : Maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's brash lash browine, I can't even say it. Lash browine.
Doree: It says, beautiful eyelashes and eyebrows make beautiful eyes. Beautiful eyes make a beautiful face. If your eyebrows and eyelashes are short, thin, and uneven, you can aid nature in a marvelous way in nourishing and promoting their natural growth by simply applying a little lash browine nightly. So they start producing this and then they start making, they decide they need to come up with they need to market it a little bit better. So they put Mabel's photo on the Tin. Thomas's family loans them some money. They trademark the name Mabel Laboratories, and they place an ad in Photo Play Magazine, beautify your lashes with Lash Buren. Send 25 cents. And it becomes this huge success. And it's partly because Thomas is claiming it can help grow your lashes, which it's kind of a dubious,
Kate : Dubious
Doree: claim. They start producing some other products like face powder, beauty cream and toilet lotion, which is deodorant, essentially. But then the Bureau of Chemistry, which is the precursor to the fda, cracks down and challenges their claims about hair growth.
Kate : Oh ,Wow.
Doree: And people stop buying the product. So he's like, oh fuck.
Kate : He's like another Florida shipping fiasco.
Doree: Yes. Literally. But he develops a new product with a more natural kind of vibe, and it gets applied with a tiny brush over the Lashes.
Kate : Here we go.
Doree: And now they call it Maybelline.
Kate : So These dudes These folks. These people, they essentially bring mascara, a trade secret of the harems to the mainstream. Add a brush. Name it after Mabel.
Doree: Yes. There's a little bit of the history of mascara that I'll get into in a bit. There were some products developed in France in the 19th century, but they never made it over to America. So he essentially brings mascara to America. And he calls it Maybelline. He calls it an eyelash. And eyebrow, beautifier and his friend Emory. Emory Shaver comes up with an idea for a new ad. So instead of an illustration, they're going to use a real model and orders fly in. Now I want to have a little sidebar about Emory Shaver. So I got a lot of this from a, I believe, self-published book by a woman named Sherry Williams, who is the grand niece of Thomas Williams.
Kate : Okay.
Doree: Her father, wait, no, she's the niece of Thomas Williams. No, she's the gran niece. Her grandfather was Thomas's brother.
Kate : Got it. Who was in the kitchen?
Doree: Different brother.
Kate : Oh, a different brother.
Doree: Different Brother. But he was sort of peripheral to the story. So she wrote this book that was very fascinating, actually. And Emery Shaver was someone who worked at Montgomery Ward in, he wrote ad copy for Montgomery Ward, and he and Thomas meet. And they essentially become life partners.
Kate : A couple.
Doree: Yes. They become a couple.
Kate : Wow. Yes, Thomas. Yes. I mean, I'm happy for Thomas. I'm still hurting for Benny.
Doree: He's sending Benny money this whole Time.
Kate : Okay. You can see that the I'm hung up on Benny.
Doree: Yes. No, and you should be. Okay.
Kate : So Thomas and Emory become a thing
Doree: Thomas and Emory become a thing, and they stay together the whole, they stay together until Emory dies. In 1964
Kate : I'm writing like 50 different romances.
Doree: Oh, Same. I was like, why is this not a limited series?
Kate : Oh my God. Yes. The creation of Maybelline.
Doree: It's actually a fascinating story
Kate : television executives who are obviously all tuned in. Doree and I want to write this for You.
Doree: Yes, we do.
Kate : I Mean, just story. I'll just hang
Doree: On. So Emery is actually an advertising genius, and he starts getting Hollywood stars to appear in Maybelline ads. So in 1924, he gets Mildred Davis, who's a Hollywood silent film star. She's the first actress to appear in Maybelline ads. And Thomas understands the power of advertising. Between 1915 and 1929, he spent over a million dollars on Maybelline advertisements, which is
Kate : Got to be a ton of money, a ton,
Doree: A ton of money. In 1929 alone, he was spending $300,000 a year on advertising in more than 40 magazines and Sunday newspaper supplements. So he is like blanketing the town.
Kate : Wow.
Doree: With Maybelline ads to the point where until the mid thirties, the word Maybelline was basically synonymous with mascara.
Kate : It was the Kleenex of mascara. Yes.
Doree: People would be like, I'm putting on my Maybelline and my lipstick. But as Maybelline starts expanding into other product areas, Tom decides that he really needs to brand this as mascara. And around the same time, in the early thirties, he hires this guy named Rags Ragland.
Kate : Stop It.
Doree: His real name is Howard. But they call him rags
Kate : I only want to think of him as rags, rags, ragsland.
Doree: And his big innovation is that he's going to start selling mascara in grocery stores and chain drug stores.
Kate : Yeah, he is. He's going to give us the drugstore makeup aisle.
Doree: He's Going to give us the drugs for makeup aisle. Until now, they had only been in some stores in Chicago and doing a big mail order business. And they stop selling in department stores because they take too much commission.
Kate : Take that.
Doree: So they are really have to figure out during the depression what they're going to do cause people don't have money. But things really turn around with this ad campaign they do with Jean Harlow, the movie star.
Kate : Oh, LA La, okay.
Doree: Yeah. And here, I'll show you this. It's a very dramatic ad.
Kate : Oh, she legendary for her brows too. Her super thin eyebrows
Doree: And her dramatic eyes.
Kate : Her lashes are so long
Doree: and it says, your eyes can have the same beauty and appeal as these.
Kate : Wow.
Doree: And she does a lot of ads. There's another ad that she does in 1936 that's like a color ad.
Kate : It's beautiful.
Doree: and the text for this ad says, the romantic charm of beautiful eyes can be yours instantly with a few simple brush strokes of Maybelline. So in the span of 20 years, they had convinced American women that not only was eye makeup, not the only for sex workers, but they had sold it as glamorous and necessary, even in the Depression,
Kate : Men making money off of us.
Doree: Now, eventually Thomas moves there. There's all sorts of drama that I won't get into. But eventually Thomas and Emory decide to move to LA.
Kate : Yeah, they do.
Doree: And they buy Rudolph Valentino's house in the Hollywood Hills. I
Kate : Don't know who Rudolph Valentino is.He was a director.
Doree: No, he was like the biggest silent film star. Oh, very handsome.
Kate : I'm over here Googling silent film stars. By the way, as we're talking, just if you see me tittering away, cause I just want to see what Rudolph looks like while we're Talking.
Doree: Oh, and Emery is just really focused at the time on getting these Hollywood stars to use and advertise Maybelline products. They also have also, they become part of this closeted gay Hollywood circuit, and they have these very private, very discreet pool parties with the closeted gay and bi men of Hollywood.
Kate : Oh, wouldn't you love to be a fly on that outdoor pool Wall.
Doree: Yes. And then in the book, it's basically implied that they lived as a throuple with this other very handsome man named Arnold Anderson. So Thomas was living this very fascinating life while also running this now multimillion dollar cosmetics company. And this is
Kate : Still, they're not owned by anybody. It's still just Maybelline on it
Doree: Own, still just Maybelline on its own. And they are just marketing geniuses. So they America enters the war and after Pearl Harbor in 1941, and they find out that petroleum is going to start being rationed in 1942. So they start running these ads where one is a housewife writing a letter to her husband at the front. And the ad says they're doing their bit by keeping their femininity. That's why we keep fighting.
Kate : Oh Boy.
Doree: And another ad says, war women and Maybelline,
Kate : stop It.
Doree: So then in the spring of 1942, the Pentagon warns FDR not to create a glamor shortage because it might lower national morale. So the cosmetics companies are allowed to continue using petroleum as much as they want.
Kate : That is bonkers.
Doree: Isn't that bananas?
Kate : Holy. What? That is very dark. That they were using war in their advertising. Oh my goodness.
Doree: They start selling war bonds.
Kate : Of course They do.
Doree: I mean, I'm giving the very abbreviated version, but it's a fascinating story. And the name of the book
Kate : Written by
Doree: Sherry Williams is the Maybelline story and the Spirited Family Dynasty Behind It. Okay. So Kate, on that somewhat depressing note of War.
Kate : Yeah, yeah. We'll stop at World War ii.
Doree: We'll Stop at World War ii. Let's take a little break.
Okay, we're back. So Emery dies in 1964. And here's something interesting. So when you look up Emery Shaver, everything says that he was born in 1903, and he died in 1964. I think he had to have lied about his age, his whole life.
Kate : Oh, Emery.
Doree: Because in the book I read, he supposedly met Thomas when he was barely 20. That's what Sherry Williams writes. And they met in 1916, and he was a student at the University of Chicago. So there's no way, he was only 13 at the time. I think he and Thomas were the same age. And for whatever reason, he decided to lie about it. I also found in the 1940 census.
Kate : Wow. You went hard and deep.
Doree: Emory is listed as being 28 years old
Kate : in 1940.
Doree: Yes. Which is clearly impossible. And he's listed as living with Thomas. He's listed, I think he's listed as a lodger.
Kate : I wonder if they had to alter his age in order to maintain their relation, maybe in order to publicly maintain their relationship.
Doree: I mean, they were, it was an open secret. And they were best friends with, like I said, all the sort of prominent gays of Hollywood of the time. But there was all this stuff about especially during the Depression, the government, if it had come out that the head of Maybelline was a gay man, it would've been a disaster. So it's really kind of tragic, but also really interesting how he had to straddle these two worlds.
Kate : Tom is Tom. I'm also checking Tom out now online. He's a very beautiful man. But yeah, that is, it's devastating.
Doree: Also, by the way, his son with Benny, who keep in mind, he's only 16 years older than <laugh>. They become very close, and he ends up working for Maybelline.
Kate : And I hope Benny the queen, that she is living in lap of luxury in Kentucky.
Doree: I think Benny remarries and has a fine life. Good.
Kate : That's what I want for her.
Doree: So Tom is understandably devastated after Emory dies. And my impression is that his heart is just not in it anymore. And he sells the company in 1967
Kate : to who
Doree: To Plow, which later becomes shearing plow.
Kate : Oh, yes. I've heard of That.
Doree: You mostly hear, heard about probably from pharmaceuticals. And they sell Maybelline, they sell the Maybelline division to Wasserstein Perella & Co., which is a hedge fund essentially in 1990, which then sells it to L'Oreal in 1995.
So all of that is kind of the background and the context to the launch of Great Lash. This was sort of, I think, a natural progression, a natural innovation for a company like Maybelline that had really been at the forefront of the development of eye makeup for American women, but also always focused on a mass appeal. They were never going for the, the super rich customer.
Kate : It's not a niche brand.
Doree: It's not a niche brand. It is a mass brand, and it has stayed a mass brand, and it has had that staying power. There were two other companies that really also were innovative in mascara in the thirties and forties, and those were Max Factor and Helena Rub Rubinstein. Now, Helena Rubinstein, I believe, does not exist anymore as a brand.
Kate : I don't think so.
Doree: Max Factor I think does. But you don't really hear about it, right? It's not as, no,
Kate : I don't even know if it's still out there.
Doree: I think it is, but I don't know that I could name an iconic Max Factor product. You know what I mean?
Kate : No, I couldn't even tell you what the colors or what the brand looks like
Doree: Yeah, it actually, it actually might not be sold new anymore. I'm not sure.
Kate : No, it is. I'm looking right now, and I'm pretty sure that Priyanka Chopra,
Doree: Oh, is like a spokesperson.
Kate : Yes. But maybe it's not it. It's possible though. I mean, I think what's so fascinating about brands is that brands can be huge globally and not huge in our country.
Doree: Yes. Which is
Kate : Fascinating.
Doree: Totally. Totally.
Kate : And also speaks to my own American
Doree: <laugh>
Kate : Binders. Blinders on. Yeah.
Doree: But I mean, we are American <laugh>
Kate : Fair. That's true to we are Americans.
Doree: I realized I didn't give the brief history of mascara that I wanted to, but suffice to say that people as far back as Cleopatra were using kohl on their eyes. Ancient Greek wealthy women use brushes to they use black incense and they use little brushes to coat their brows and lashes. This
Kate : Seems like another product recall that you might need to take us on just the history of mascara.
Doree: I mean, look, I could do that. I'm here to serve
Kate : Here to serve fake flirty lashes is what? You're here to serve fake
Doree: thick Flirty lashes. It still has a staying power. You were saying, you see it quoted constantly by people who use department store makeup, but then they also use great lash mascara. It's, it's been the secret weapon.
for Decades, I found a 1990 article where Hollywood makeup artists are quoted as saying they use great lash on their clients, including Ivana Trump was listed as one of the clients. Yeah. So here is how great Lash is kind of perceived today.
TikTok Video: We're trying the damn thing. This is the Maybelline great Lash mascara. And my God, it has been some years since I've tried this, but I included this in my other video, if you haven't seen it. It's makeup products, which nobody uses anymore. And I mentioned this product, and these were the comments that I got. This had almost 700 likes on the comment. And all of the comments were just like, I love Great Lash. Oh my God, great lash, best mascara ever. And I was like, okay, I'm retrying this. I have,
Kate : You're not an expert.
TikTok Video: And I don't remember it being the best mascara.
Kate : I remember it working,
Doree: Yes.
TikTok Video: But it certainly wasn't the best. The packaging is great. And I saw somebody else's comment and they were like, my mom still uses this. And she particularly says, this is her fun product. And I was like, Ooh. Yeah. So anyways, let's get into it. I just finished getting ready. I just haven't done my mascara
Doree: We don't really need to know her review of it. But the point of this was that she just said, oh, this is a product nobody uses anymore. And she got hundreds of comments from people being like, what are you talking about?
Kate : This could open up a can of worms as to why I hate TikTok. Because she doesn't know if people use it or not.
Doree: No, she's just,
Kate : Is she quoting the sales reports from the last year?
Doree: No, she is not.
Kate : Just in, in the context of her world. People don't use it.
Doree: Yes, exactly. Exactly.
Kate : Which is interesting to me. I mean, I do think that is interesting. Are young people running out to go get Great lash?
Doree: I mean Now, L'Oreal doesn't break out sales figures, but it is still mentioned as one of the best selling mascara's. So I think it is still considered an iconic mascara and an iconic product. So Kate, that is great Lash Mascara, and I have to tell you, so they're still, like I said, they're still selling the same. This is the very black that they still had. That was their OG product. They do make a number of different varieties of it. Now, I took a picture at Rite Aid the other day. They have the waterproof version. They have different ones and they make other mascara's. But I think when you think Maybelline, you think of Great Lash.
Kate : That would be the only Maybelline mascara that I could probably name off the top of my head, even though I've used others from them. And so Thomas's family, I'm assuming Emery had no children. Right. Thomas's family still doesn't have a stake in Maybelline anymore. He just sold it and probably got a bunch of money. And that was the end?
Doree: I Think so, yeah.
Kate : Wow. Are you going to try the product that you bought?
Doree: Yeah, I'll put it on now.
Kate : Okay. Doree is opening the classic kind of cardboard plastic mascara drugstore container. Ooh. Pretty.
Doree: I mean, it's a basic mascara
Kate : Are you born with it or is it Maybelline? We're about to find out. Ooh. Mm-hmm. Ooh. Pretty. Okay. Oh, wow. Yeah. I noticed your lashes are much darker already.
Doree: So also, their whole thing from the beginning was like, you can layer this on to get the look that you Want.
Kate : Oh, they look nice. Your lashes do look nice. Oh,
Doree: Thank you, Kate.
Kate : Now, how, if you had used elf's mascara, would it look exactly the same?
Doree: Probably. I'm going to take a closer look,
Kate : but they Look pretty.
Doree: Yeah. I would say it's a little more subtle than the mascara that I'm used to, but still really nice.
Kate : Yeah.
Doree: I would Use this.
Kate : Your lashes are popping. Yeah.
Doree: All right. Well, Kate, this is fun.
Kate : I have really been down a road Here.
Doree: Yep. Yep.
Kate : Still thinking about that citrus in Florida and how it sounds kind of tasty.
Doree: Well, I mean, that is an actual business that exists now.
Kate : No, I know.
Doree: You know, can order a box of oranges.
Kate : I Truly want one right now. My brain hasn't left the Sunshine State. Is that what it's called? I don't know.
Doree: I think he was just ahead of his time.
Kate : Well, Thomas, you know what? Thank you for your service of, again, ripping off sex workers, I'm being sarcastic. It always comes back to somebody getting ripped off.
Doree: It does
Kate : all, I feel like every single one of these tales. But Doree, this was fascinating.
Doree: Well, thank you.
Kate : Thank you.
Doree: All right. Bye everyone.