Mini-Ep 475: Breaking Up With Your Therapist Is Hard to Do
Doree and Elise catch up on the state of the world and how they’re handling it. Then, they jump into listener voicemails about breaking up with your therapist who works in the same building, adult hobbies, and deciding whether to have more children.
To leave a voicemail or text for a future episode, reach them at 781-591-0390. You can also email the podcast at forever35podcast@gmail.com.
Visit forever35podcast.com for links to everything they mention on the show or shopmyshelf.us/forever35.
Follow the podcast on Instagram (@Forever35Podcast) and join the Forever35 Patreon.
Sign up for the newsletter! At forever35podcast.com/newsletter.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links.
Transcript
This episode transcript is AI generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:18):
And I'm Elise Hu, and we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Doree Shafrir (00:22):
And this is a mini episode where we hear from you, we share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability. But please remember, we are not experts, we're podcast hosts. And we always encourage you to seek support first and foremost from a medical and/or mental health professional as needed.
Elise Hu (00:39):
And gosh, I'm really wondering how the therapists are doing these days because God, what a bleak start to 2026. I was watching The Golden Globes. Well, I watched the back half of the Golden Globes on Sunday night and then it replayed. So I was able to watch the beginning in the monologue and Nikki Glaser absolutely killed it. But it was so sad that they are doing this integration now with Polymarket, the betting markets. And I was
Elise Hu (01:11):
Like,
Elise Hu (01:12):
"Does everything have to be a market? Do we have to bet on everything?" And I think that there was some headline last week where there is betting going on on how long the White House press conferences, like the presidential daily briefing lasts. And Carolyn Levitt was in the middle of some sort of briefing and ended it just in time to be the ... And it maybe was because they knew about this betting market.
Doree Shafrir (01:39):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (01:39):
Oh my God. Just made me so sad on top of just everything happening.
Doree Shafrir (01:48):
There is a funny recent South Park episode that takes this on.
Elise Hu (01:54):
There is?
Doree Shafrir (01:55):
It's so insane that ... But that's what makes South Park so great. It's just it goes there. Yeah, exactly. But I thought it was quite funny. But yeah, everything is ... You can bet on everything now. It's so
Elise Hu (02:10):
Crazy. No, I don't want to. And Mark Ruffalo. Mark Ruffalo is the only guy who got political. And I think so his clips are going around today of him being on the red carpet, just like there's storm troopers in our streets. Innocent people are getting killed.
Doree Shafrir (02:28):
I think we're getting a little off
Elise Hu (02:30):
Topic, to be honest. I mean, people are going to feel this. This joke is about taking care of ourselves. And I certainly feel like I can't be alone in feeling like this shit is hard and we are here for you. We are one of the places where we're kind of trying to imagine what things look like on the other side.
Doree Shafrir (02:49):
Yes. How are you doing otherwise?
Elise Hu (02:54):
I mean, that's the thing. It's like, yeah, everything's going along just fine, I suppose. I still have to get the kids to school and go to their activities and everything's functioning. And we got back from New York, but it's just like, ugh, it feels heavy. We were at this giant birthday party on Saturday night and it was all the people, it was like all the hosts of NPR. So everybody had come in. If it were during the state of the union where they leave one cabinet member behind and who's not there. And this is one of those situations where maybe Scott Simon didn't come in, but a bunch of hosts had come in town because it was Elsa's 50th birthday and they were nominated and Morning Edition was nominated for a Golden Globe. And so some executives were in town and all of the hosts of Morning Edition and everyone was like, "Yay, great.
(03:48)
We're having this big reunion and everybody can celebrate each other." But then also everything sucks and is so difficult right now in the world and we're going back to war in so many places. And so it's this constant like, what is it called?
(04:09)
Where you're constantly vacillating between one thing and the other. So it was an awesome celebration. We're so excited for our friend. There's a lot of love and joyousness and a lot of millennial music. And so there was a lot of like apple bottom jeans, boots with the fur and everybody's getting low, low, low, low. But then also then we're like, "Oh my God, my knees hurt." So it was pretty nice. Right. But what about you? How are you doing? How are you balancing all of this? I mean, last week I was blissfully not in front of my computer when Renee Goode was killed, but how are you just kind of like metabolizing everything?
Doree Shafrir (04:56):
Oh, I'm disassociating.
Elise Hu (04:58):
Okay. Okay. I mean, that's the reality. There's a really good text that I've been reading every night. It's this little book that I think was just a collection of essays by Audrey Lord. And it's been awesome. It's been so awesome to read. And Brene Brown talked about how she read it when she was in college or something and
(05:28)
How it changed the way that she understood lots of the structures in society. And let me find what it's called. It's something, oh, it's called the Master's Tools will not, or will never dismantle the Master's House. And I talk about this when I go on book podcasts too, and people are like, "What are you reading? What do you read? What do you keep on your nightstand?" And this little Audrey Lorde mini book, it's really thin is something that I keep on my nightstand. And now it's in my purse. And when I'm sitting around waiting around, I read it. And so that's my little recommendation. The other recommendation for this dissociative period is the correspondent. And well, heated rivalry, obviously heated rivalry. I mean, we've talked about that a lot, but the correspondent, which I think who was our guest, Jen Hatmaker recommended in her Q&A.
(06:30)
And then my really good friend Meredith was like, "I got through this in four hours." And then I then recommended it to my friend Liz who has a similar personality and Liz texted me the next morning and was like, "I finished the correspondent. It's great." And I was like, "I just spoke to you 12 hours ago." And she said, "Yeah."
Doree Shafrir (06:47):
Wow. It's great. Wow. Okay.
Elise Hu (06:51):
It's a good escape read.
Doree Shafrir (06:52):
I was going to say, as long as it's sort of an escape read. Yeah. I don't know. It's like there's not anything great happening. I feel like my life is kind of falling apart, but then also the world is falling apart. But I am so freaked out about what's going on in my own life that I can hardly even think about the rest of everything. It's just too much. It's too much. It's too much for people to process all the time.
Elise Hu (07:33):
Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. It is so much. It's
Doree Shafrir (07:36):
Too much.
Elise Hu (07:37):
What's on our listener's minds?
Doree Shafrir (07:39):
Are we getting any ... Well- What
Elise Hu (07:41):
Are we hearing about?
Doree Shafrir (07:42):
We have one listener who is looking for tips on breaking up with your therapist.
Elise Hu (07:49):
We are not mental health experts, so just-
Doree Shafrir (07:51):
We are not, but we have been to therapy. I
Elise Hu (07:54):
Love it.
Doree Shafrir (07:56):
And I mean, I certainly have stopped seeing therapists, so I feel like I can offer my own experience here. But this listener writes, "I really just want to ghost because I hate confrontation, but I know that isn't the mature thing to do. She smelled heavily of pot our last session. The past few sessions, she has been on her computer the entire time. I can hear her sending texts. Her sound is on. So I can hear the iMessage sound." She responds, "Uh-huh," or some generic response to everything I say. "I feel like each session is being led by me/it's just me venting the whole time about superficial life stuff when I have much deeper trauma healing that needs to be done, but I don't think she's the person to guide me through that. I'm older by her by a solid decade, and I feel like I end up mentoring her a ton.
(08:45)
She's still in grad school for her LCSW. I feel bad because I think she enjoys the casual chit chat we have, but it's just not working for me and I feel bad ending it. I also specifically chose a therapy practice in my office building for convenience. Oh, no. Whoa. So I see her a ton in the elevators and parking garage at my office, so I'm going to continue seeing her around.
Elise Hu (09:09):
Girl, you cannot ghost. You're not going to get to ghost because by din of being in the same office building, you won't be a ghost. Right.
Doree Shafrir (09:17):
Yeah. You can't ghost, unfortunately. And I think you just make it super short, professional and just say," Next week will be our last session. "I don't think you really owe her an explanation, or if you don't really want to even do a next session, you can say," Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to continue with therapy anymore. Thanks so much for everything.
Elise Hu (09:51):
"Whatever specific thing you think she's helped you with. Yes.
Doree Shafrir (09:54):
Yes. Exactly. And then just that's it. I don't know that you need to go into great and gory detail.
Elise Hu (10:02):
Yeah. Great. Clarity is kindness. Clarity is kindness.
Doree Shafrir (10:06):
Yes.
Elise Hu (10:06):
You don't have to be specific, unless she asks for specific feedback, I doubt she will. I mean, it sounds like-
Doree Shafrir (10:14):
Totally.
Elise Hu (10:15):
Also, if you're a therapist, and I remember this because one of my friends is the CEO of this big tech company, and I was hand wringing about asking for a raise one time, and he's like, " Okay, practice asking for a raise. Let's rehearse. "And so I do it, and he's like, " Just remember that this is the only time in the last three years you've gone in to ask for a raise. "But for the person on the other side, for me, I have this conversation like 65, 75 times a year. There are that many people who are coming to ask me for a raise all the time throughout the year. And so he's like, " So the stakes are so different. You are making this out to be so much of a bigger deal than it is for the other person who hears requests for raises all the time.
(10:59)
"And I think that's probably true for therapists. Therapists have churn. Their patients come and go. I mean, obviously this one is in training, so she's going to have less years of experience in the aggregate, but this isn't going to be ... I'm almost certain this won't be the first time or one of the only times where somebody ends their sessions. So don't trump it up in your head is what I'm saying.
Doree Shafrir (11:23):
Yes. I think that's good advice. Right. It's like this is just a natural part of the therapist patient relationship. Absolutely. Also, the way she's behaving is really weird.
Elise Hu (11:40):
It sounds unprofessional. If she's texting during your session- Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (11:43):
No, not cool.
Elise Hu (11:44):
Yeah. Or
Doree Shafrir (11:45):
Stoned. Yeah, that's like really ... I mean, this is not your problem at all, but it does seem to me like there's something going on with her that, again, is not your responsibility. But I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think this is about you. This is about her and what's going on with her, but you don't also ... You're paying for this. Yep. Okay. Well, Elise, we're going to take a short break. We had a lot of listeners call us about the one versus two kid debate questions. So we're going to get to a few of those after the break.
Elise Hu (12:29):
Great.
Doree Shafrir (12:30):
But before we do that, just a reminder that you can also leave us voicemails at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcast@gmail.com. Our website is forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned on the show. We are on Instagram at Forever35podcast. Our newsletter is now on Patreon at patreon.com/forever35. We also have so much bonus content on there, including ... I feel like I need to go ... Yeah. We're now doing our casual chats on video. So you have the option of watching us or listening to us. As I learned, Patreon just extracts the audio from your video if you put it up. So you can still listen to us like you always did, but you can also watch us if that's your thing. So that's just another fun perk of being part of our Patreon in addition to supporting us, of course. Yes. That's again, at patreon.com/forever35.
(13:31)
And we have our favorite products at shopmy.us/forever35, so check those out as well, and we will be right back. We'll be right back.
Listener Voicemail (13:46):
All right, we are back. Hi, Elise and Doree. I just wanted to call in because of the listener who was feeling kind of bad about not having more than one child. I am one and done by choice. My husband and I thought really long and hard about it and ultimately decided that one child was right for us. And I'm just here to say, if you want another kid, obviously you should have one, but when you really embrace just having one, if it's the right choice for your family and you, it rocks. It's the greatest. I'm in some great mom text threads and I'm the only one with one child. And anytime their kids play together, they text our group like, "Oh, look." And it's rare. Okay. My kid, you do have to teach your kid, even if you have more than one, you have to teach them how to play independently.
(14:48)
It's like a muscle that they have to grow and it's worth it because my kid plays independently frequently and it's great. And it's an important skill, I think, to learn how to be alone with yourself. So yeah, just here to say, I also, I really ... There's like a cultural thing of like, you should give your child a sibling. I hate that. Not just because you only have one, but like you shouldn't give a human another human. You don't know that they're going to be friends. You don't know they're ever going to play together and not just fight all the time. You don't know that as adults they're going to be there for each other. Like my husband's brother, they're not close at all. So I just wanted to call in and say again, if you want more kids, absolutely. I hope you can have them.
(15:38)
If you are feeling like you should want more kids when you don't, just know that a lot of times only having one child can actually open up so many more opportunities for you and your family than maybe having a sibling for your kid would. And I would also really recommend if you're on Facebook and you're in like those on the fence groups of people who are trying to decide, get out of there and find your way to one and done, truly happy and drama free. And it's really great. And it'll validate your decision a lot because you'll see people who are just loving life with their only children. Okay, that's all. Bye guys.
Elise Hu (16:20):
My daughter Ava echoes this sentiment. Absolutely be one and done. No, I love what she had to say. And I think it's absolutely right that you, there's no guarantee that the firstborn wants to have another person, like wants to have a sibling or whatever. And you don't owe your child another human on earth.
Doree Shafrir (16:44):
Yeah. We got a couple other perspectives on this as well.
Listener Voicemail (16:49):
Okay. Hey, Doree and Elise, this message is for the caller that called in saying somebody had told her that having two kids is easier than one because they play with each other. And I immediately paused the pod. I didn't even listen to your guys' answers yet because I feel so strongly about this. Every day I say to myself, my Roman empire is like, what if I only had one kid? My life would've been so much easier. I have a six-year-old about Henry's age and a son that just turned four and 99.9% of my time is because they are fighting. They are arguing. They have a problem with each other. It is exhausting. And my six-year-old, six and a half years is so self-sufficient. I think if we only had her, life would just be so simple. In terms of my quality of life, yes, down the road, they have each other, the social skills, they're building because they're with each other, all the positive things, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
(17:54)
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about my sanity every single day. Dear Lord, if they play together for 30 seconds without screaming and arguing, that's a win. So I think the person who gave that advice is just, first of all, that's kind of the mean thing to say to someone. Who cares so many kids people have back out of my vagina, but also I just think it's wrong advice too. So I just want the listener to listen to their gut, do what is best for you and your family, and the decision you make is going to be the best decision for your child and for you and for your partner. Okay, happy new year. We got this 2026. I
Doree Shafrir (18:35):
Swear not all of our listeners are just pro one child. We just got these two perspectives. You know what though? I will say, I feel like one thing that I did like about this listener's voicemail is that she was like, "You know what? My life would be easier."
Elise Hu (18:53):
Yeah. Yeah. I have so much ambivalence about having more than one kid. Yeah, totally. I mean, it's true. One time I went on a ski trip. I took the girls to Jackson Hole for skiing one winter break. I want to say when Ava was in third grade and Luna was in kindergarten or preschool or something like that, and Issa didn't go because Issa stayed with Maddie, her dad, to go to Palm Springs. She wanted to do a different vacation, and so she didn't go to Jackson Hole. And I was traveling around ... First of all, I was packing winter gear and ski stuff, and then traveling around the airport with just two kids, and I was like, "Oh my God, I freaking rock. This is so easy. I cannot tell you how easy this is. " I was like, "Shit, man.
(19:43)
Two kids would have been rad." Yeah, because once you trip over into the three, two, you can't even get ... First of all, you probably need a minivan or a seven seater, so there's a car problem. And then there's the hotel room problem. We can't get all five of us in a hotel room, we get two hotel rooms, all sorts of stuff. But oh man, just having two kids was pretty sweet. No offense to Issa. We love Issa and we're sorry she didn't want to go skiing. I'm constantly like, "I love you all. I love you all very much." But yeah, it works out how it needs to work out for you. And I feel like we can't deny that just a fewer ... Being responsible for one fewer person makes a difference for the person who's responsible for them.
Doree Shafrir (20:28):
Totally. Totally, totally, totally. Yeah. I mean, I come from a family of three, so it was kind of chaotic, but you know. Okay. One more voicemail on this topic with a slightly different perspective.
Listener Voicemail (20:47):
Hi, I'm calling in response to the woman who called in not knowing whether she should have a second child or not. And I felt like we had a lot of similarities. My husband and I did not have children until I was 37 and we had our son and I felt the same way as this was like, holy cow. The impact on sleep and just time for myself and relationships with my husband. I was blown away with what a lifestyle shift it was and had it in my head. We would only have my son and one and done and that was it. And it wasn't until he was about two and a half that we realized this is amazing. Like being a parent is so much fun, it gets easier every month and at that time we decided to try for a second. It took a long time.
(21:41)
We had to do IVF, but we did have our second and we feel complete. So my advice is maybe to just take it as it comes. And I know a lot of families want their kids to be only a year or two apart. So they start trying at the point this listener's at. And if you're not ready, just wait and maybe in time you'll find that some of the demands of a newborn or one year old do ease up and feel full to have a second. All right. Hope that helps. Thanks.
Doree Shafrir (22:14):
Yep, yep, yep. Well, we are happy to keep receiving texts and voicemails and emails about this, so keep them coming. And we're going to take another short break and we will be right back.
Elise Hu (22:30):
Okay. We'll be right back.
Doree Shafrir (22:38):
All right. We are back. We got some feedback on the Hobbies episode that we did, the crossover with Anne Helen Peterson's culture study. First, we got a text that said, "Hi, The Joy of Adult Hobbies episode was fantastic and fantastic is in all caps." It was so good to hear those perspectives and to know that others deal with this too. Thank you for all the reminders. Great convo, great episode.
Elise Hu (23:04):
Oh, I'm so glad. Thank you guys. That's awesome.
Doree Shafrir (23:07):
All right. And we have one more voicemail.
Listener Voicemail (23:12):
Hi, I'm a new listener and a first time caller. I'm calling in response to the hobby episode that you did with Helen Peterson. And I've become really inspired by Doree talking about her tennis hobby and hearing her talk about growing it from this casual thing during the pandemic to being able to play in the league. And I love what you said about tennis being more fun, the better you get. So this weekend I finally mustered the courage and went to the local table tennis open league for the first time. I've been taking lessons and working with a coach on and off for the last couple of years, but I've just felt intimidated to go and play against other players who are often better than me. Also, all of them are men, but because of the episode I went this weekend and it was a ton of fun.
(24:12)
I won some games. I lost others and I was the only woman there, but overall I'm really excited to keep going and I just want to thank you for the inspiration. Yeah, thank you. Hi.
Elise Hu (24:24):
Wow. I know. Good for you. Yeah. We're so excited for you. We're thrilled to hear that this conversation was in some small way connected to you really going for it with table tennis. Table tennis is having a moment. Marty Supreme. Marty Supreme. Have you seen Marty's Premier?
Doree Shafrir (24:42):
I haven't seen it yet.
Elise Hu (24:43):
You saw it,
Doree Shafrir (24:43):
Right? Oh
Elise Hu (24:43):
My gosh. It's so chaotic. Yeah, it is so chaotic. It's a lot of fun. I don't know that Timothy Chalamet deserves to win all of the best actors over Leo DiCaprio, honestly, because one battle after another was a better film overall and Leo DiCaprio's performance as a dad, and that was incredible. But that movie is hilarious. A lot of fun, probably not one of my favorites, but ping pong's having a moment as a result. And I'm just really excited for you, listener, that you're having a glow up in the world of table tennis.
Doree Shafrir (25:16):
Good for you. So fun. I just so love that this person did it. Yeah. If you have also done something like this, let us know. I love these stories. Well, listeners, thank you so much. Elise, nice to talk to you. Great to see
Elise Hu (25:35):
You. Hey,
Doree Shafrir (25:36):
We'll be
Elise Hu (25:36):
Back on
Doree Shafrir (25:36):
Friday on the casual chat.
Elise Hu (25:38):
Yep. See you later.
Doree Shafrir (25:39):
Talk to
Elise Hu (25:40):
You then. Bye.