Mini-Ep 366: Fickle Nipples
Kate and Doree tackle the patriarchy with a couple of listeners and hear from some others about their experience with HSV and dating, Yoga With Adrienne fan-girling, and “taste-testing” our beauty products.
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Transcript
Kate: Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Kate Spencer.
Doree: And I'm Doree Shafrir.
Kate: And we're not experts.
Doree: We're not, but we're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums,
Kate: And this is a mini episode where we hear from you, we share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability.
Doree: But please remember, we are podcast host. We're not experts. We always encourage you to seek support first and foremost, from a medical and or mental health professional as needed.
Kate: If you want to reach us, you can call and leave a voicemail or send a text message at (781) 591-0390, or you can email us at Forever35podcast@gmail.com.
Doree: And you can visit our website Forever35podcast.com for links to everything we mentioned on the show. If you want kind of a more curated experience, head over to shopmy.us/Forever35. We are on Instagram @Forever35Podcast. We have a Facebook group at facebook.com/groups/forever35podcast. The password is serums. We do have a newsletter, Forever35podcast.com/newsletter, and we are doing a live show on February 22nd at 5:00 PM Pacific, 8:00 PM Eastern. Get your tickets. They're $10 now. They're going up to $12.50 day of show. So if you're procrastinator, and you can do that at moment.co/Forever35 moment.co/forever35. Very excited about that.
Kate: I will not be getting my nose pierced on the live show.
Doree: Okay. All right.
Kate: But this listener did right to us and tell us that they got their nose pierced.
Doree: Oh wow. Okay.
Kate: They said, just finished mini up 362 in adult piercings. And I just wanted to say I was on the fence about getting my nose pierced, but I have now decided I am going to do it, and very fittingly it will be for my Forever35 birthday. Thank you for this episode and all the positivity about reclaiming your body, fucking the patriarchy and taking control of your own being.
Doree: Wow. Okay. I love that this person is doing it on their Forever35th birthday. That's so exciting.
Kate: I know. Happy birthday to you and way to go.
Doree: Should we read the cautionary tale about the nipple piercing that we got
Kate: At some point? We can. I had to pause while I was reading it, and I don't normally get grossed out by stuff, but it it's a lot. And I appreciate, we requested cautionary tales and or positive tales, and this listener delivered on the cautionary front for big time, but then we had a few other people who were like, it's great.
Doree: Yeah. Which just goes to show, I don't know what does it just go to show
Kate: Nipples are sensitive? Honestly, nipples are fickle.
Doree: Yes, nipples are fickle. Okay. I love this next text because I, okay, this person wrote, hi Kat and Dor. Just wanted to tell you that over the holidays, I spent almost two weeks in a warm vacation climate with unpainted toenails. The world did not implode, and honestly, no one noticed take that patriarchy.
Kate: Oh, we're really shoving it to the patriarchy today, aren't we? Oh, aren't you listeners? Way to go.
Doree: So listeners may remember that two Thanksgivings ago when I was with my family in Florida, and I was in the throes of a horrible toenail fungus, and I could not wear nail polish because here's what happened. The fungus itself was dead, but I wasn't contagious. But the nail had been affect, the nails had been affected and to my big toenails especially looked not great. Not great Kate
Kate: Okay, that's okay.
Doree: So I didn't have nail polish on them, and I was very self-conscious about it, but this listener said no one, one seemed to notice or care if they did notice they didn't say anything.
Kate: Well, it was funny because this really hit on one of my major hangups, which is i like
Doree: That is your foot thing,
Kate: Well. But I feel like I can't go on vacation without my toenails painted. I, that's always factored into the planning of a trip. What is that? I mean, I know the answer is as simple as obviously patriarchy, whatever. But what, when I read this, I was like, oh my gosh, I can't even imagine. This is one of my things. This is a hangup for me that I have yet to move on from.
Doree: I mean, I get that. I really get that.
Kate: But they're right. The world is not going to implode, and it's one less thing to stress about and run around trying to do when you're getting ready to go on a trip. These, there's a lot of good things about this, but for some reason it sends me into that space where I'm just like, oh no, I always have to have my toenails painted before I go to a warm vacation climate. Analyze that. Doree, what is that?
Doree: I feel like there are just some beauty things that we've internalized as being things that we have to do. Shaving my armpits was one of those for a long time.
Kate: Me too.
Doree: That I now am. I don't care.
Kate: Yeah. I mean, not having any body hair was a big one. I used to shave my fingers.
Doree: Yeah, I remember you saying that.
Kate: Yeah.
Doree: And so I think the painted toenails are just a part of that. And I think there's such a difference between getting your toenails painted because you looking down at them and they make you feel good because they're a pretty color versus feeling like, oh my God, I have to get my toenails painted. Or everyone on this cruise is going to think I'm a monster. I feel like if you're doing it for you, then great. And that's where I've sort of landed, I think in the last couple of years. It's like, I love this shit for me. not for anyone else.
Kate: Let me ask a philosophical question though
Doree: Yes.
Kate: Do you think it's ever truly possible to do something just for you, because that is the presumption that there is no other influence.
Doree: I hear what you're saying.
Kate: Do you think that is possible?
Doree: Of course. Ok.
Kate: Or am I being too nitpicky?
Doree: I think this is one of those red herring questions.
Kate: Ooh, here we go.
Doree: I think this is one of those things when people are like, well, there's no ethical consumption under capitalism. I think this is one of those things where it's just like, of course there's always going to be something right? To the extent that you can get joy over what you are putting on your body, do it and try to have that be the overriding thing that is happening, not the concern over what people are thinking. Can you ever fully get rid of it? No. But you can really minimize it, I think. And I think the problem with questions like that is people then will say, well, yeah, you're right. Why should I even bother? You know what I mean? It kind of cuts it off before you even get to it. And that's why I think it's, that's why I call it a red herring question.
Kate: I think that's a great perspective. It's kind of also like that saying of what perfect is the enemy of good. If something's just because something's not perfect, doesn't mean it isn't worth while.
Doree: Yes. Exactly. And there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, I feel like then becomes weaponized by people who want to justify their purchase of Shein clothes. And it's like, well, you know what? There is a difference between buying those clothes and some other mass produced brand. You know what I mean?
Kate: Yeah.
Doree: There are gradiations here.
Kate: Or second hand Shein clothes.
Doree: Or second hand clothes, there's, there's a lot of other choices you could be making within this greater framework of capitalism that is ultimately, yes, unethical. But within that framework, we can make more ethical choices
Kate: I'm with you. I like this. Thank you for that perspective.
Doree: Amen.
Kate: It's really helpful.
Doree: Thank you.
Kate: Okay. Real quick, before we take a break, a listener texted us. Can we talk about hemorrhoids? I feel too young and vibrant to be dealing with this particular aspect of butt care listener, this is how I believe the but care conversation started on this podcast because at some point I revealed my issue with hemorrhoids and talked about it. Why I did that? I don't know, but it's out there now. There's no going back.
Doree: Well, and I would say that unfortunately, you are never too young or too vibrant to deal with hemorrhoids.
Kate: There are billions of vibrant people walking the earth with hemorrhoids, with itchy butts. Hemorrhoids are miserable. I mean, I would one, consult a doctor and that's like the first thing I would do. I can tell you what worked for me in what has helped, which is PreparationH, wipes and suppositories, and this is the sexiest thing I'll ever say, but, thats the truth.
Doree: Well, you know what? Butt care is self care.
Kate: It is. Well, and I think there are a lot of us who are just like, I guess this is how it is. I have to live with discomfort. And it doesn't have to be that way, but if you are struggling and they're not going away with home treatments, please seek a doctor's help. Please. I beg of you, because sometimes this requires serious medical care, and oftentimes things about our butts are treated as like, oh, this is so silly. But actually it's extremely, uncomfortable.
Doree: No, its extremely not silly.
Kate: Uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. It's not silly. So yeah, we'll always talk about hemorrhoids and butts here. If anybody else wants to weigh in. Of course, this listener didn't say kind of what the problem was. I'm just assuming they've got 'em, and that sucks. I'm sorry. You're dealing with them. It's the worst. Yeah. All right, Doree, when we come back from the break, we're going to hear from some listeners who responded to a previous listener who asked about dating someone with HSV2. I'll be right back.
Doree: BRB.
Kate: Okay. So we received quite a few listener responses. I'm going to share an excerpt from this first email. This person writes, I was diagnosed with HSV2 about six years ago after contracting it the first time I had sex. Due to purity culture and some religious trauma, I really thought things were over for me. I threw myself into a toxic, excuse me, a relationship that was toxic thinking. The only other option would be to live out the rest of my life alone because who would want to date me? However, that has not been the case almost a decade later, and I have a couple more serious partners who have been very caring and thoughtful, one of which I'm now married to. I thought I'd share a little info I have, and what I found helpful in a partner, more people have it than you think. I used to feel a lot of shame and was very selective about only disclosing it to partners. I got close enough to that. I thought things were headed in a physical direction. After a couple of years, I started telling friends and was amazed by how caring their response was. Since this has happened, I feel like I've become something of a patron saint of herpes positive. At least once a year, an old friend or loved one will come out of the woodwork with a recent diagnosis and want someone to talk to. I've gotten to the point where I get the, Hey, is there a good time for me to call you text? And I know what's coming next. I don't want to get into too much medical advice at risk of sharing misinformation, but from my experience, herpes is at worse a skin condition similar to cold sores. You may get around your mouth just in a pretty unfortunate area. One of my first questions after diagnosis was how it would interfere with pregnancy, and the answer was probably not at all. Taking medication does successfully suppress it. From my experience. I've only ever had one actual outbreak, and this listener also writes that the things they always appreciated from partners were people willing to read things and ask questions, and wanting to know about my experiences. Great advice.
Doree: This is such good advice, and I love that this listener has been open about this. I think these kinds of things really need to be demystified, and that's why it's great when people are willing to talk about them.
Kate: Yeah. I think, I mean
Doree: Of course. And I also just want to say, of course, no one is ever under any obligation to talk about these kinds of things, but I do think when you do, you often find people with similar experiences or community that you didn't know was there.
Kate: Good point. Really good point. Well, another listener wrote to us, do you want to take this one, Doree?
Doree: Sure. It's me. Hi. I'm the HSV positive partner. It's me in 2021. During an extremely stressful period of my life, I was diagnosed with HSV2, and my partner could not have been more supportive. We spent a lot of time talking about how growing up in the nineties warped our perception of STDs slash STIs, especially around H I V and aids. Back then, the language is very much that sex was dangerous, potentially lethal, and that people with STDs slash STIs somehow did everything, somehow did something bad to deserve it, and I grew up in a pretty liberal sex positive environment. His attitude was, this is just information about your body, and we will work with it. Since then, I take my medicine whenever I feel an outbreak starting and it comes under control within 24 hours. Herpes is a deeply stigmatized virus, but my experience with it has been largely in the category of mild inconvenience, and the conversation it sparked between my partner and me has brought us closer. My doctor told me I've likely had it for several years, so it could have come from my current longtime partner or someone in my past. There's no way of knowing. HSV, like HPV is extremely common, and unlike HPV, it's not linked to cancer or any other serious medical conditions. My advice is to see where this relationship leads and not let this be a deterrent.
Kate: I mean, I appreciate the Taylor Swift lyric reference up top number one.
Doree: Totally.
Kate: This is great. This is really helpful, and I'm so glad we're talking about the way those of us who grew up in the nineties were conditioned. I mean, the way sex was talked about. We also just grew up in a time where so many people were dying. Just so much, so many problematic messages coming at us at once. It was rough.
Doree: Yeah, I mean, and I think we didn't realize how much that had affected us till much later.
Kate: Yeah. I mean, and in hindsight too, I mean, if we're really going to get into it, I didn't truly understand the homophobia and just the cruelty. Surrounding so much of our government's reaction to the H I V and AIDS crisis of that time. Not just totally other human beings reaction, but the sanctioned government or response. If you haven't now I'm really going off on this tangent, but if you haven't seen how to survive a plague it's an incredible documentary about ACT up, which is an amazing activist group that grew out of the very early years of the AIDS epidemic and the queer community of New York City. I believe they started in New York, maybe San Francisco. My apologies. So I'm getting that wrong. Anyway, see that movie That has nothing to do with what we're talking about here, but just a good movie to watch. You'll cry. All right. One more text. My now husband is also HSV2 positive and told me a couple dates in before we got intimate. So we are what is called a Cero discordant couple. Cero discordant couple. I tried hard not to freak out when I found out as well. I'm a physician, so I know the risks of HSV mostly risks to a baby that will be born. If I were to turn positive, I went into the doctor and got tested to make sure I was negative too. You can be asymptomatically positive and I was negative. My husband has been on daily Valtrex since before we became intimate, and honestly, it's a sign of his love that he has been on this medicine for years. We've never used condoms. I had an IUD, and he's always been upfront. If he can feel a lesion forming, I have not turned positive. The risk is really low if they stay in their medicine. All this is to say, dear listener, if you like this guy and he's being honest with you, I say, go for it.
Doree: Great.
Kate: That's kind of how I feel, go for it.
Doree: Go for it.
Kate: Go for it. Go for the gold, the gold being that dude.
Doree: Yes. Well, Kate, let's take another short break and when we come back, we have a couple of voicemails from listeners.
Kate: All right. We're B, we've got a voicemail.
Voicemail: Hey Kat and Dor, just wanted to call real fast and let you know that your latest mini-sode really spoke to me Doree, I would like to say right now, I will happily be one of your capircorn friends, and I think it's safe to say that this podcast is officially a yoga with Adrian Fan podcast. Now I loved 30 Day Yoga Journeys. The first one I did all the way through was Breath which after January 6th. I'm so glad that I kept going and I got it done and then I actually am currently doing the current one, and then before a 40 day run streak I did for my 40th birthday this year, did the ones last year. So you might say I'm a little obsessed with Yoga journeys, and I very much look forward to doing yoga with all my Forever35 runs. That's it. So your local Capricorn signing out. Have a great day. Bye ladies.
Doree: Love that.
Kate: It's your new Capricorn friend.
Doree: My new Capricorn friend.
Kate: Is this a yoga with Adrian Fan podcast. I'm enjoying doing my yoga journey with her.
Doree: Well, that's fun.
Kate: I mean, I would love to be her friend in real life. Do I have a pair of social relationship with yoga with Adrian and Sweet Benji the dog? Sure I do. Don't you Doree? A little bit. Every time. He's like, sweet Benji. I'm like, I know. Sweet Benji.
Doree: I mean, sweet Benji
Kate: oh, Benji, what are you up to over there? Just lounging again.
Doree: Benji really lives the life.
Kate: He's always just, he's so chill. He's such a yoga dog. My dogs are like agents of chaos. They're sleeping right now, but they're not sweet Benjis.
Doree: Aww.
Kate: Alright Doree, before we wrap up, a listener pitched a beauty experiment. It's kind of more towards me, but I think you are kind of the mastermind of the experiment in their vision, so I just thought we should hear them out.
Voicemail: Ok. Hey, homegirl. So I'm listening to the new episode today, January 4th. I haven't gotten to the interview yet, but Kate talking once again about how she gets duped by the fancy labels and brands. I think it would be a fun experiment if Doree made a control group type of situation. Get those little cute little, the beauty product spatulas that you guys mentioned months ago. Scoop it out into either a blank empty jar or into another beauty products, empty jar and have she do some blind testing. I would like this. Maybe she uses and we have to be specific about it. I think maybe a moisturizer or a serum and have her use bottle A for two weeks, and then bottle B for two weeks. One being the high end, fancy ancy one and the other one being a dupe or a drugstore brand. I just think that would be a fun experiment for not only info on the product, but for Kate and her. I know she wants to change her capitalism inspired behavior, but I know it's also really hard so maybe this could be an unlearning opportunity. Anyway, love you guys. Bye.
Doree: Okay. I mean, I would love to do this. Of course.
Kate: Really?
Doree: Yeah. I love it. I love a taste test as it were.
Kate: Okay, well maybe we should figure it out. That would probably be a good learning experience for me, honestly.
Doree: Or what if I replaced all of your super fancy creams in their jars with drugstore creams and see if you noticed,
Kate: Well, you are coming over to my house tomorrow, so I do know if you suspiciously go to the bathroom for a long time,
Doree: and I'm like, I'm just, I'm pooping, now wait a second.
Kate: Then I hear like, little lids being removed, little sounds and droppers.
Doree: Why did you have to go go with my bathroom? Why didn't you go in the guest bathroom?
Kate: Why did you bring a big Amazon box with you of plastic containers?
Doree: No, no, no. No reason. No reason. Just look over there.
Kate: Oh, okay. All right. Well listen, I'll know what you're up to. This could be fun. This could be fun, listener. I like the pitch.
Doree: Yeah, I do too. All right everyone, this has been a pleasure as always.
Kate: Talk to you later.
Doree: Bye.