Mini-Ep 347: It’s Your Body, Boob Job If You Wanna
Kate and Doree settle in and answer listener questions about handling diet culture and friendship, breaking the news about a breast augmentation, and lube recommendations.
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Transcript
Kate: Hello, and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I am Kate Spencer,
Doree: And I am Doree Shafrir.
Kate: And we are not experts.
Doree: We're not, but we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: And this is a mini episode where we hear from you, we share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability.
Doree: But please remember, we're not experts. We're podcast hosts. We always encourage you to seek support first and foremost from a medical and or mental health professional as needed.
Kate: If you want to hit us up on the memes or the text memes, that's text messages in my own personal abbreviated slang. Our voicemail and text number is 7 8 1 5 9 1 0 3 90. You can also email us at forever35podcast@gmail.com,
Doree: And you can visit our website forever35podcast.com. For links to everything we mentioned on the show, we're on Twitter @Forever35pod. We're on Instagram @Forever35podcast, and you can join the Forever35 Facebook group at facebook.com/groups/forever35podcast. The password is serums and you can sign up for our newsletter at forever35podcast.com/newsletter. Oh, also you can shop our fav prods at shopmy.us/forever35.
Kate: I did just wanna mention Doree, this episode's coming out on Friday the 28th, and tomorrow on the 29th Saturday, I'm gonna be at the Boston Book Festival.
Doree: Oh, hello.
Kate: You can come see me speak for free at 3:30 PM on a panel about romance in the serendipity of a romance with two other really wonderful romance writers. And come say hi. I'll sign your book. You don't need a ticket, I think you just get to show up. So please.
Doree: Kate, where is the Boston Book Festival?
Kate: Okay, so if you go to Bostonbookfest.org, you'll be able to look at the festival schedule and find out the exact location of where my panel will be and also other panels, because there are a few different spots like it's at the Boston Public Library. I am going to be at the Old South Church.
Doree: Oh my gosh. What a lovely venue.
Kate: I know. Romance, serendipity in the unexpected.
Doree: Whew. I wish I could be there.
Kate: I do too. But you know what, I will drink a Dunkees in your Honor.
Doree: Oh, thank you so much.
Kate: I will frolic through the public gardens. I will just be as much of a cliche as I can for the 72 hours that I'm in our hometown.
Doree: Amazing.
Kate: So if you happen to be there, please say hi. I would love to meet any pod listeners and do Inside Jokes from the podcast with you. So please say hi.
Doree: I hope some people bring you eggplants
Kate: Just Well, I mean, I love eggplant, so bring me eggplant for me. Eggplant Parmesan, one of my favorite foods. It'll be really weird. It'll be weird, but it'll be great. We don't need to explain why you're bringing me eggplants. Also, just wanna note,
Doree: Oh yes, Kate, go ahead.
Kate: Yeah, I just also wanted to say, and this is the kind of thing that should go without saying, but I don't think it should go without saying is that there's a lot of antisemitic shit happening right now and it's fucking awful. And I just wanna make sure that I personally go on record as saying that, but also this podcast,
Doree: You know what, Kate, as a Jewish person, I appreciate that.
Kate: I mean, yes. Of course, its literally the least I a non-Jewish person can do. So I just wanted to note that shit because I am, it is not okay. And my community of Jewish friends, of which I have a lot, are dealing with a lot because of it. And I mean, I don't wanna speak for you Doree, but I just wanted to note that it is happening and I wanna make sure we are being vocal about it.
Doree: Well, thank you Kate. I really appreciate that.
Kate: And this also some of our listeners I'm sure are feeling that as well.
Doree: Yeah. Alright, well let's get to Pleasanter.
Kate: Let's travel back in time. Let's travel back in time to 1998.
Doree: Okay, let's do it. Alright. This was an email from a listener. I was catching up on the pod today and heard your request for Lilith Fair and other concert stories from last month. I went to the Second Lilith Fair in 1998 in Phoenix. I turned 17 that month and it was my first real concert. It was fantastic and unlike anything I'd ever experienced before, I can't draw a direct line between me leaving the Evangelical church and coming out as a lesbian a few years later. But I also can't say it wasn't an influence seeing what life outside the church was like. In retrospect, I'm surprised my mom let me go, much less bought the tickets for my birthday. Last year, I went to what I felt was the spiritual bookend to my Lilith Fair experience, although they had no artists in common, according to Wikipedia. After two postponements, my sister and I went to see Alanis Morissette with Garbage and Cat Power at the same venue I saw Lillith Fair at just over 23 years earlier. Like Lilith, it was an amazing experience, although my 40 year old self appreciated having an actual seat rather than general admission on the grass. So Burning Man probably isn't for me at this point.
Kate: <laugh>
Doree: Yeah. Burning Man. Not for me either.
Kate: I desperately want to go.
Doree: Thank you for this. You desperately wanna go Burning Man?
Kate: I, it's, I want to go in theory, but I don't think I would actually enjoy myself.
Doree: I think you want to have gone.
Kate: Yes. I think that, I wish I had experienced this. In my early, when I was 20, I was on Phish tour for three weeks, meaning I traveled around in my car with one of my best friends, Teresa, and we saw a million Phish shows, slept in the car and did a lot of stuff that I would not let my kids do. And it was great, but I don't think I would enjoy that experience now. Now, I would like be put me in all the hotels.
Doree: Yes, Exactly.
Kate: With clean sheets.
Doree: Exactly.
Kate: I also just loved this in the way that music and these kind of life experiences when we're younger, but also when we're older, can have such an impact on deepening our understanding of ourselves, of our authentic selves. I just thought this was such a, I know the listener says I can't draw direct line between me leaving the Evangelical Church and coming out as a the lesbian, but I also can't say it wasn't an influence. And I just think what power music can have on our lives and without the artist ever even knowing that we exist.
Doree: Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good point. I think we heard from another listener who was like, who kind of drew this, I don't think they came from the Evangelical church, but I think they drew a similar sort of line from having gone to Lilith Fair as a teenager, not being out or possibly even aware that they were gay to themselves and subsequently coming out as gay. Interesting.
Kate: I got to interview Shirley Manson from Garbage once. She was pretty rad. Yeah,
Doree: They were big influences on me in like 1995.
Kate: Really
Doree: Yea, like musical and fashion. I really tried to dress like Shirley Manson. I thought she was extremely cool. I mean, she was extremely cool. Wasn't a bad person to <laugh>
Kate: No, she's super cool.
Doree: Yeah, she was pretty iconic and I was very obsessed with her. Yeah.
Kate: Are you a Cat Power fan?
Doree: I am. I have seen her live and it was not a great show. She has at least, She used to have a lot of anxiety around performing live and often would finish her sets. But I do really like her music.
Kate: She's someone who I got into later as an adult.
Doree: <affirmative> <affirmative>.
Kate: Well now we're, we're gonna have a major gear shift and read another
Doree: That was our like allegorical car swerving.
Kate: Doree just did a three point turn in the middle of the road.
Doree: Not even a three point turn. I think I did like a 180.
Kate: A 180. Did you have a three point turns in driver's ed?
Doree: For my driving test?
Kate: Yes. Remember that? Yes. Well, 180ing, here's an email. Hi Kate and Doree. How do you navigate commentary from friends who have an unhealthy relationship with weight and food? I've struggled with being comfortable with my weight my whole life, and I'm still on a journey with it, probably always will be. The Weight Watchers in high school touched on in the interview with Nora McInerny very much hit home as I also did Weight Watchers in high school. This friend and her spouse regularly made comments around food and weight due to their own stigma towards food and bodies. I don't feel comfortable with, I've said something on numerous occasions, but it sort of hit a tipping point this week, not sharing the story for the sake of brevity. They are very good friends. They aren't bad people, but they say very uninformed and toxic things about food and weight. And I'm sick of it and I just don't know how to deal with this. Oh, I'm sorry. This is really hard.
Doree: This really sucks. I'm sorry. I mean, I have a possibly extreme option.
Kate: All right, let's start with that.
Doree: I think you could say to them very directly, your comments about food and weight make me really uncomfortable and I'm gonna have to take a break hanging out with you because of it.
Kate: I actually don't think that's extreme. I think that is, if this listener feels like that's something they can do, I think that is a really good choice on how to handle it.
Doree: You've said something on numerous occasions, it sounds like they're either not hearing what you're saying or they don't care or they can't help themselves. Any of those scenarios is not a healthy situation for you to be in. So I think you need to remove yourself from this situation. And I don't know how they're gonna respond to this, but that's also not your problem at this point.
Kate: Yeah, it's really about, I think, protecting your mental health and your emotional health. And I think being direct is the best option. And look, I know, first of all, I extremely relate to you listener, but I also know what it is like to be completely brainwashed and caught up in diet culture and body self-loathing and all this shit. And I think you're extending a lot of empathy and understanding you, but I think they need to hear it. And I actually think, Doree, what you're saying is not extreme. It's being really straightforward and honest and ultimately possibly giving them feedback that will help them. I don't think you need to dance around it. And I also think you really, I'm repeating myself, but you need to protect yourself because this stuff, it's really, it's toxic for you and you don't need to be around it. Yeah. Good suggestion. Doree. I'm sorry, listener. This stuff is really, really hard. It's really hard and it's so ingrained in culture and us individually.
Doree: And I think that it is important to be direct because it is so ingrained, and this is not, I'm not excusing them but I do think that sometimes people like this don't even, it's, they don't even realize what they're saying and you have to point it out to them, which is annoying that it's on us to point it out to them. But I guess this is how attitude shifts happen. I mean, I know that I've had to be really conscious and aware of the things that I say and how I think about things when it comes to food and weight because so many, I just had internalized so many things and now I do see how some friends who have not dealt with it, sometimes I see how they talk about their own bodies or they talk about food and it is really hard. And sometimes I say something and sometimes I don't. I don't know. I'm still sort of figuring it out.
Kate: Yeah, I think extending a lot of grace to yourself is really key as we all kind of plaud through this stuff.
Doree: <affirmative>. Well, Kate, I need a break after that conversation. So lets take one
Kate: We really went all over the place. Okay, let's do it.
Doree: We'll be right back.
Kate: <silence> All right, so Doree, we're back and we have two messages from listeners that have to do with breasts, but very different boob topics. We're gonna start with this email. Do you wanna read this one?
Doree: Sure. Hey, Kat and Dor, long time listener, first time writing into anything ever. I'm nearly 30 and have finally decided to get myself the breast augmentation. I have always wanted, my hubby said the cliche, You don't need it. I love you the way you are, but he supports me in my decision. I'm looking for advice in telling my coworkers and family about the procedure. I recently got lip filler, which I absolutely love, and my family was quite judgemental about it. The breast augmentation is something I'm going to do regardless of what they say, but I don't know if I should tell them beforehand or just show up at the next holiday meal with boobies. And if that is what I decide to do, do I wait till someone asks me about it or do I bring it up? As for my workplace, I'm a GIS analyst for a government agency, so I share my office with my coworker slash manager.
We can go days without talking to other people in our office building because it's a very niche job. So I'm not concerned about telling them. My coworker is a 47 year old male, and I feel like we have an uncle/niece vibe. I dont know how to bring this up to him. Or if I need to, I literally have no boobs. I will be going from a AA to a C cup. So there will be a noticeable difference. I think it'll be quite awkward for me to go away for a week and come back with a chest and not acknowledge it. I'm not trying to keep this a secret, but I also don't wanna broadcast that I'm getting a boob job. If someone asks me about it, I would tell them, Please help.
Kate: I have a very straightforward reaction to this.
Doree: Okay, I'm ready.
Kate: Your body is your business and nobody else's, period. End of sentence. You don't owe anybody an explanation about anything. Anything. Nothing. Yeah. If you want to talk about it, great. This is your information to share as you see fit, but you owe no explanation about any changes that your body goes through. None. And obviously that's not, easier said than done because of the way our fucking world works. As we were just talking about before the break. Obviously easier said than done, but it is your body.
Doree: Yeah, I think that's great advice. I don't think you owe anyone anything.
Kate: Now what if someone makes a comment?
Doree: Well, she said, if someone asks me about it, I would tell them.
Kate: Yeah. So then, Oh wow, you look different. <affirmative>, Did you get a boob job? Yes.
Doree: Right. Just leave it at that.
Kate: Yeah. There need not be any justification.
Doree: Yeah, I guess, right? You don't need to overexplain.
Kate: No. You owe them nothing.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: And in fact,
Doree: I like this, Kate,
Kate: Well I, This is part of a much larger conversation that is happening and across the world, this body autonomy and how our bodies are, should be ours to do with what we please, which is of course. Many governments are not allowing that. But another podcast, another time. But I mean, I also think as someone's like, Oh wow, you did it. Turn it around on them and be like, Why are you, l I just think people are so fucking weird and to comment on our bodies that if they do, I think you can call 'em out on it if it's making you uncomfortable.
Doree: Yeah, totally.
Kate: Why are you noticing or why do you have an opinion about that? Or why do you care what I do with my body? Again, all easier said than done. Easy for me to say here on this podcast. Harder to do in person,
Doree: Also hard to do in the moment,
Kate: Everything, right? Everything, so hard.
Doree: But I think it helps to be prepared.
Kate: <affirmative>. Good call.
Doree: Alright, well Kate, we have as promised another voicemail about boobs, but on a different subject. So here we go.
Voicemail: Hi, Kate and Doree. I'm calling about boobs and texts and research studies. I lost my mother-in-law to breast cancer several years ago. And now breast and chest health is even more close to my heart because recently my mother, who's over 70 was diagnosed with breast cancer. She's recovering after surgery and radiation therapy and some chemo, and she has a really good prognosis for recovery. But this is something that just is saturating my life these days. I'm in my forties and at my annual OBGYN appointment a couple years ago my doctor casually mentioned a new research study. It's focused on breast and chest health. It's called the Wisdom Study. And she said, Hey, check it out. So I went to the study website to see if I qualified. I want participation included and I qualified and participation was really minimal. So I joined the study.
It was a few clicks on my little laptop and I was in. I don't work for the study. I don't have any association with the study. I don't work for the university IT with I'm just a regular research participant. But participation's really easy mammograms. It takes some surveys like a couple years. The researchers have access to my electronic records and the findings of what they learn will benefit so many people. So for participation, if you're female and 40 or over, you might qualify to participate in the research study. I believe the study is only in the us but it may have extended to Canada. But I'm not sure. So I'm a researcher by trade and science is kind what I do. And I also know that participating in research, it's not something that lots of people do. It's an ask your time and it's comfort with research and with doctors.
But I do kind of wanna put one call out to my fellow listeners. And that's that breast cancer affects everyone. Studies like the Wisdom Study, They matter because they're working incredibly hard to find evidence to find the best way to screen women of all races and ethnicities so that no one's left behind in the efforts towards a cure for breast cancer. So I ask if you share this out please visit thewisdomstudy.org or you can go tocthewisdomstudy on Instagram to learn more and possibly enroll. And I hope others join me in being part of finding a cure for breast cancer.
Thank you both for all that you do and for possibly maybe hopefully sharing this call out to everyone from a fellow longtime listener. Thanks so much. Bye
Doree: Thank you so much for that info,
Kate: consider it shared. We'll include the link. I believe it's thewisdomstudy.org. I think the listener said that in their message, but just to reiterate and we'll include it in our show notes. All right, Doree, time for another break.
Doree: All right, let's do it.
Kate: We're moving south on the body in this little section of the pod. Now we've gone from the breast to the vulva. All right, starting with this voicemail.
Voicemail: Hey Kat and Dor. This is Ellie long time listener. First time caller. I had my first pause the pod moment earlier today when I was listening to Friday's Mini Ep about tea tree oil being used in the vulva and anal area and causing tingling. Please, please do not use tea tree oil or any other scented or highly perfumed soaps to clean your vulva, your vagina, or the other sort of sensitive areas. Of course, sometimes you need to clean your butt or your anus, but I'm an OBGYN doing extra special training in surgery for a fellowship year. And I'll never forget being an intern and working with one of our vulver specialists who told us that if you wouldn't put something in your eye, you shouldn't put it on your vulva or your vagina. Use of any perfumed, soap, body washers, detergent, douching etcetera, leads to really bad imbalances with the vaginal flora and can lead to abnormal discharge that people think are infections and all sorts of badness. So for the listener, sounds like the tea tree body wash is working great for you elsewhere in your body, use that, but just let water roll down over your vulva and your vagina. There is absolutely no need to use a scented or tea tree body wash on that area. And in fact, you're probably doing more harm than good. ok, thats all I have. hope you guys have a great day. Bye.
Doree: Great info. Thank you for that reminder. I didn't even think about it because I don't use scented shit. <laugh>.
Kate: Yeah, I mean, vaginas are self cleaning, I mean, this is why douche and everything else is unnecessary and just a scam. Now, sometimes you might need to give yourself a little rinse in the shower.
Doree: Yea, and I think it's okay to wash the outside,
Kate: Yea but I don't think you need to be getting in there. You will probably end up irritating yourself. And I just do wanna note one thing that can be very irritating to the vagina, the vulva, the whole shebang are bath bombs.
Doree: Yes.
Kate: We've talked about this before, right?
Doree: Yes.
Kate: Cause you're essentially just sitting in a bath of irritating chemicals or irritating whatever things that's gonna take care of these vaginas. All right, well one more question. Hi there. I have a question about vaginal care. I thought I had a memory of you talking with a guest who focused on vaginal health and care. This guest had a product, they catered to vulva health and may have even focused on a lubricant for sexy times. I tried looking back on the website and couldn't find it. Am I just imagining this or can you remind me of this guest and their product? I am looking for something to continue my enhanced sexy times. During the pandemic, I was a teacher and have started working from home along with my husband. It has allowed us to have more sex during the day, which is my preferred time. Also, when I recently got a mild case of Covid, my friends got me a vibrator and it was a magical experience. Any help with ideas for how to promote vaginal care and satisfaction as part of self care is greatly appreciated it. Well, I was trying to remember the guest that you might be speaking about, and I came up with two guesses. The first is Edan Lepucki.
Doree: Oh, yeah. Okay.
Kate: Because I remember she was adamant about a lubricant that she loved called Uber Lube. Now, Edan's a writer, right? She's not like a professional vaginal expert, but she was adamant about this lube. So I just wanted to throw that out there. And then when we had Alie Ward on, she was, I don't know if she talked about this on the show, but there was some vagina, like vaginal box. Do you remember this? I tried to Google and I couldn't find it.
Doree: Yes. I think her mother-in-law had put it together, but I dont remember what it was. I also, I had another thought of who this might have been, which was Vanessa Marin who talked about sex and sexual health. So I thought that might be an option. I will also say that we have been There will be more to come on this subject, no pun intended. This is definitely a topic that I'm interested in discussing more about. And I know Kate you are to, so let's talk more about it.
Kate: Yeah, it's coming. And you know what? I received a lube. I just wanna shout out by Woo, w o o, their website's. WooMoreplay.com. I got it in a gift box, I think Doree, from the very funny podcast Bone Marry Bury, which is a very sexy R to X-rated podcast. And they send out this lube that's like coconut oil based, they call it the pregame lubricant, Coconut Love Oil.
Doree: Okay,
Kate: Now I'm looking at their products. They make a cliteral vibrator with a travel case. That's handy.
Doree: Oh, hello.
Kate: Right. So things aren't buzzing around in your suitcase,
Doree: <affirmative>. Right. We had that discussion.
Kate: Yeah. So we'll link to that as well. Any other lube recs, you know what to do, send them our way.
Doree: All right. Well, Kate, this has been a great episode, getting to discuss all these body parts. So yeah. All right. Bye everyone.
Kate: Bye.