Mini-Ep 339: Wear Clothes, Buy Some, Feel Good
Kate and Doree consider the events in the world before hearing from listeners about the gross habits of dogs, books to read to get you through a tough time, and throwing it back to Lilith Fair memories.
Mentioned in this Episode
How to help in Iran
NPR | As India turns 75, Muslim girls are suing to wear the hijab — and protect secularism
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Transcript
Kate: Hello Anne. Welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I am Kate Spencer.
Doree: And I am Doree Shafrir
Kate: And we are not experts.
Doree: That's true. But we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: And this here is a mini episode where we get to hear from you, we share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability
Doree: Indeed. But please do remember, we are podcast hosts, we're not experts and we always encourage you to seek support first and foremost from a medical and or mental health professional as needed.
Kate: That being said, we love to hear from you and if you would like to reach us, you can leave us a voicemail or a text at 7 8 1 5 9 1 0 3 9 0, or you can email us at Forever 35 podcast@gmail.com
Doree: And you can visit our website forever 35 podcast.com. For links to everything we mention on the show, follow us on Twitter at forever 35 Pod on Instagram at F 35 podcast and join the F 35 Facebook group. The password over there is serums. You can also sign up for our Forever 35 newsletter at F 35 podcast.com/newsletter and shop all the products that we mention on the show at shop my.us/forever 35.
Kate: And don't forget about our beautiful collaboration on merch with balance bound, balance bound co slash shop slash forever 35 holiday gifts.
Doree: Kate, I just put the stickers on my computer.
Kate: I need to do that. I haven't done that yet, but I need to do that cuz I sticker up my iPad case quite aggressively.
Doree: Oh, that's fun. Yeah, I, we have, there's stickers that say this has been a journey and storyline.
Kate: Another Doree line. Do you come up with some great kind of one-liners? The cousin Joey of this podcast, <laugh>
Doree: A good one liner.
Kate: Joey Shari, the cousin Joey of this podcast. Yeah, I mean for our listeners who might not be familiar, cousin Joey is a character on the eighties 90 sitcom Full House played by Dave Coolay. Also, I need to apologize because I have come down with a head cold and I am a little scratchy throaty phlemmy, not covid, a hundred percent head cold, which is annoying. It's fine.
Doree: But if I'm, It's annoying.
Kate: I'm sorry. Now did you feel
Doree: Yesterday, I was just gonna say if you feel like an actual coughing fit coming on, just mute
Kate: Yourself. I will, I will. And I just wanted to just flag it cuz literally I got on to record this podcast and all of a sudden the need to clear my throat became very pervasive in my chest. So I just wanted to note that. And I did wanna take a moment, Doree before we get started, just to note what is happening in Iran. <affirmative>, <affirmative> and I are not experts on, I mean you tell me, maybe you are, but on the political history of Iran, nor I an expert on what's going on necessarily with the protests that are happening now, other than knowing what I've read in the news, which I think many of us are aware, in which a young woman masini was killed by the, what is called the morality piece, Excuse me, Morality police for not properly wearing her hijab and covering her hair correctly.
And there are massive protests going on in Iran and I just wanted to include a couple links about it so that people can catch up or read about ways to help from what I've read and what I understand and Doree chime in or listeners, you please chime in, call me in on this. But it's my understanding that what the protestors on the ground there, and this is really a women led protest, have requested, is amplifying what's going on social media. So that still seems to be the best way to support them. So I just wanted to flag that that is something that we are obviously aware of and following as individuals and I support that movement. And also I think it's reflective of many movements that are going on across the globe in India. They're banning hijab and women there are fighting to wear it. We've got a lot of shit happening here in America that y'all are really aware of. So I just wanted to flag it.
Doree: Thank you for flagging. I also wanna flag that as we are recording Hurricane Ian is hitting Florida and when we are recording this, we don't know yet kind of what sort of destruction it will be bringing, but it doesn't seem great. So I just wanna send love and support to our friends and listeners who are affected by the hurricane.
Kate: Thank you for noting that. Do, And I think this, like you said, we don't know yet at the time of this recording, but if that changes, we'll be sure to include links to ways to help in our show notes.
Doree: And again, it doesn't look great.
Kate: It No, it's really, it's pretty scary actually. Yeah. And you just forget until you are made aware once again of the power of nature and the ways in which destruction can happen and possibly amplified by climate change. So
Doree: <affirmative>
Kate: Man.
Doree: Well on that uplifting note
Kate: Switching gears,
Doree: We're just gonna kind of get right into it. I think we're gonna switch gears in a major way. Right now we are
Kate: Literally doing a 360 U-turn in the middle of a one way street. Right? We are <laugh> turning the car around and then driving.
Doree: Well we're doing a 180. If we did a 360, we would be back where we started.
Kate: That's true. That's true. That's 180.
Doree: That's 180. And I do just, oh, well first I wanna note Kate, that several listeners told us about Caroline's episode of G Thanks. Yes. Where she talks about hotel collection. I had some I missed, this is
Kate: Okay.
Doree: Sorry. It is episode 84 according to one of our listeners who sent us the actual episode.
Kate: So can I say something? This all clicks in my brain because the one place where I had experienced hotel collection before, actually I can't, I think it was at Jackie Johnson's house, but maybe also at Caroline's house. Caroline has hotel collection. But I was at Jackie's house recording an episode of Nat Butte and she had hotel collection and I remember being like, What is this? And she was like, Oh yeah baby. You know how Jackie's like, Oh yeah honey, everybody has, you gotta know this. And then it all has come kind of riling back with the reminder that Caroline, of course, cuz Caroline knows everything has already talked about it. So people are on
Doree: It.
Kate: I haven't made a purchase yet because I'm overflowing in candles and smells. But let me tell you, I want to, So thank you everybody for
Doree: Okay. Yes to my name. Thank you everyone for bringing that to our attention. Now, Kate, as you recall, you mentioned a couple weeks ago that your dog had eaten your retainer.
Kate: How can I forget? And
Doree: I dare say you felt some shame over this.
Kate: Well, it just felt so cliche. Of course my puppy that is out of control ate my retainer. Literally this morning, Lydia, my youngest daughter, came out of her room and was like, Mom, I found another piece of your retainer in my bedroom. It <laugh> this retainer. First of all, it's not big. So the retainer, just chunks of it are all over my house. But yeah, story I did feel, I don't know, it was kind of embarrassing.
Doree: Yeah, you were embarrassed. Maybe not shame, but you were embarrassed. And we got a lot of people writing in to say, don't be embarrassed. First of all, we heard from a dentist who said, texted us to say it is very, very common for dogs to eat retainers, Invisalign, trays, even dentures. It is not weird or strange or unusual at all.
Kate: Okay.
Doree: I mean you, I'm just picturing a dog with somehow managing to put dentures in their mouth.
Kate: <laugh>. Well I did get Penny our puppy. I did get her this ball that has a painted toothy smile on one side. So when it's in the dog's mouth, it looks like they're giving you a big human grin. I, I'll, I'll see if I can find a link to this in the show notes. It's very creepy.
Doree: Oh my
Kate: God. Yeah. Dogs with the idea of a dog with big human teeth is hilarious.
Doree: Hilarious.
Kate: Okay, so that makes me feel better. Thank you also. Thank you dentist.
Doree: Thank you dentist. And then we heard from another listener who texted to say, when I got a nightguard, my dentist actually asked if I have a dog. And then warned, your dog will a hundred percent try to chew it. Even if you're confident you have the kind of dog who would never do such a thing. It's true. I have a rescued senior standard poodle who used to work in showbiz. Oh, I'd love to hear more <laugh>.
Kate: So he
Doree: Tell about that and mellow. Yeah, exactly. But even he sniffing around the nightstand in search of a spit covered dental device. <laugh>.
Kate: Okay, so is it because it's our, they are tasting our
Doree: Body. It must
Kate: Fluids. It must get too gross. But Lucy has definitely chewed up my underwear. Tmi.
Doree: Oh wow. Well, I mean this also makes me wonder. Dogs probably have chewed up sex toys.
Kate: Well, a hundred percent. They dig through the trash for used tampons. I mean listen, this podcast is really going there today.
Doree: Dogs are going there,
Kate: Dogs are nesty. <laugh> dogs are into some kinky stuff. Not that we're yucking dogs. Yums. I don't wanna yuck the
Doree: Dogs. Yum. No, I don't wanna yuck. Anyone's yum. No, certainly not dogs.
Kate: <laugh> not dogs. No. Their yums need to be honored. You wanna eat that grass and eat that goose shit? You go for it. Dogs. Totally. That's your yum. Okay, well this makes me feel better. And actually logically, now this does make sense, right? It's a good, a hard plastic and it smells like my mouth. Of course my dog is gonna be delicious. Yes.
Doree: Wait, <laugh>,
Kate: This is the step. I also just wanna note, we have a family friends whose dog was a fired show business dog. She's the sweetest dog. And she basically got fired because she kept wanted to go be with the people. She just kept trying to go get pets. And so she wouldn't always stay on her mark cuz she just wanted to go be
Doree: Petted.
Kate: And she
Doree: Used this dog, I'm imagining a cartoon about retired showbiz dogs who all lived together in a retirement dog community
Kate: Like Golden Girls. But Golden Dogs,
Doree: Yes. But they all worked in showbiz
Kate: <laugh>. Okay. Now there could be a Hollywood producer listening to this idea right now. So if anyone wants
Doree: Copyright Forever 35
Kate: <laugh>, do you wanna develop Golden Dogs with Doree? Me as a consulting producer, I
Doree: Was gonna say, Kate, you're in on this too. <laugh> I would love,
Kate: I just get out of this. No, I just didn't wanna take your credit. I want you to have full, I mean would That would be really funny, honestly. Okay. Okay. We've got a career business. Yeah. Yep.
Doree: Golden defense. Kate, let's take a little break because we have some questions when we come back. We have some talk about postpartum bodies, fashion. There's the whole smorgasboard.
Kate: I love it.
Doree: All right, Be right back. Okay, we're back. We got a text from a listener with our request. Kate, do you wanna read this?
Kate: Sure. The text reads books to read while mom is actively dying. I've used romance before on this journey, but it's not engaging enough at this moment. Ideally, a sprawling world build also just paused this time tomorrow at minute three because although modern lovers was great three weeks ago, now is not the time for a grief book. Thank you. Oh my gosh. I can so relate because sometimes I'll be reading a book and it's like, and then the dead mom and I'm like, Nope, I'm out. I mean, I think we all have that about all different topics. Sometimes I'm into it, but there are times no way I
Doree: Have that sometimes about miscarriage or infertility. If the book opens with some graphic description of a miscarriage or some, I'm just like, you know what? I'm just not in the head space for this.
Kate: Yeah, I think that's totally normal. I am sorry. I really feel like you're gonna wanna go into the fantasy space.
Doree: <affirmative>.
Kate: I don't read a ton of literary fiction and so I don't know what might scratch the itch in the literary fiction space in terms of a sprawling world build maybe. What was that book that you loved? Was it by, what's her name? Laura Gra. Is it Laura Graaff? No.
Doree: Oh, Lauren gra.
Kate: Excuse me. Yes. Doree. What was that book by Lauren gra? Yes. Matrix. Do you think that would Matrix scratch the Itch?
Doree: Yes. Although there is a dead mom in that book.
Kate: <laugh>. Okay. See, I mean this is what's so hard is so many, so much world building involves this kind of tragedy. Now again, I
Doree: Have a question for you, Kate. Okay, what now I have not read these books, so I am just suggesting these and I'm hoping you can tell me what about those Court of Thorn and Roses books that
Kate: You So that's what I was gonna say. With the fantasy space, I do think because with, because there's a fantastical element, even when there is death or dead parent, it not being in the human world kind of takes you, I think out of it a little bit. <affirmative>. I mean, those have intense world building. I like Sarah j Moss's books. I highly recommend them. I don't also know a lot about fantasy. I think there's so many other great fantasy authors to get into that. I'm sure somebody else could recommend NK Jenison. It's a fantasy
Doree: Writer. People love
Kate: Books. Yes. Now I just wanna say that the Ice Planet, our Barian series by Ruby Dixon. There we go. Do Doree Sonic.
Doree: There we go.
Kate: <laugh>. But lemme tell you, I know, I know what you're gonna say. I've talked about the blue alien books way too much on this podcast. In fact, maybe listeners have left us because of it, but there is so much world building because it takes place in space. The books are like, you can digest 'em a box of donuts. And while occasionally there is, I'm a, I'm human and my mom died on earth for the most part, you are dealing with human and aliens figuring out how to get along and have sex with each other. And then also some really fun world building on an ice planet that then this author Ruby Dixon expands to other parts of this universe. So if you just wanted something trigger warning with some of the books, <affirmative>, there is some tense stuff. But I don't know, just her world, this author's world building is fantastic. And this will not be the last time I talk about it, but I did just wanna say, I think fantasy is the way to
Doree: Go. I also, I wanted to put in a plug for the Rivers of London Books, which I've recommended on this podcast before, which people have described as grown up Harry Potter set in contemporary Present Day London There is fantasy, it's also mystery kind of Thrillery books. And the book one has some stuff that does feel a little dated, but that seems to have been fixed <laugh> in subsequent <affirmative> books. But those are definitely very immersive. The other world building books that I also just wanna recommend are the pole Dark books. If you're into historical fiction, I love those books. And there's like 12 of them and they're long <laugh>. What
Kate: About Outlander? Didn't you also read Outlander?
Doree: I did. I loved Book one, but there's also
Kate: A lot of tragedy and
Doree: There's a lot of tragedy. There's like rape in those books. And as the books go on, I found them less and less enjoyable. I stopped reading them actually at book four or five because I was like, these feel like a slog. And I think I posted about this in Forever 35 book club and a lot of people agreed with me. They were like, Yeah, these books just kind of fall off. But Book one is great. <laugh>. The other books that you could get into are the Game of Throne's books.
Kate: Yeah, I never
Doree: Read that. I have a warning book four is a slog and <laugh> book four. Book four is famously a slog. And when you get to the end of book four, George Rra Martin is like, So that was a slog. And I wrote it to write about characters you don't care about and we'll get back to the characters you care about in book five. And you're like, You know what, fuck you.
Kate: Okay, <laugh>
Doree: Books four, and if I'm remembering this correctly, books four and five are contemporaneous. They take place at the same time. They're just about different characters. And Book four is like, I don't care about these people. Why am I reading this? And it is just very long and very boring in my opinion. But books one, two and three are great. And Book five is kind of a return to form.
Kate: I mean, the other thing that I feel like you could dig into, and this is not to say that these kind of books don't deal with serious topics, I would obviously screen them, but middle grade and young adult books are great. There are some fantastic series in there that you could get into. My kids are obsessed with school for good and evil seekers. I mean, even graphic novels
Doree: Can
Kate: Be really wonderful. I just think there's a lot of stuff that could scratch the itch of a satisfying read that's also out outside of just the traditional written book space.
Doree: Interesting. Okay. Well I'd love to hear what listeners suggest as well. And also listener The Forever 35 book club Facebook group is a great place to ask these kinds of questions. I just wanna put in a plug for that group because it's a great group and people have a very wide range of literary tastes. So you can almost always find a recommendation for whatever genre you are interested in. Alright, let us read this text. Sorry. No. This email we heard from a listener who was kind of despairing about her postpartum body and clothes and was just kind of bummed. Would you say that's an accurate characterization
Kate: And kind of grappling with change all the changes and what it means to kind of feel like you don't have that kind of bodily autonomy? Frankly,
Doree: <affirmative> <affirmative>. So we heard from a listener who wrote Hi Cat and Dora just had to pause the pod moment and wanted to respond to the new mom who talked about getting her body back. It sounded like she's only two months postpartum. And as a mom with a baby who was 18 months, I would say give yourself some time. Some moms I guess do bounce back after two months. But I think that expectation is unhealthy and unrealistic, especially if you are nursing. It was helpful to think about the fact that the transformation took nine months. So why would the transformation back to the new normal be any quicker? Mentally, it took me close to a year to feel like myself again. Especially because it took so long for my baby to sleep through the night physically. I got some cheap clothes, Old Navy tops and jeans for the in between stage. And as Doree said, am building a more permanent wardrobe slowly to go with my new body slash life. Do what you have the capacity for now to get back to your new normal exercise or other healthy choices, but expect it to take time wishing you all the best.
Kate: That's a great advice. I
Doree: I think that is really good advice. It's
Kate: So many things and I think the focus is always on my body changed. How do I do I change it back? Which that's a whole other, that's a huge conversation about <affirmative>, where that narrative is coming from and who's pushing it, and the people making money off of post childbirth, diet, culture, all that shit, right? Someone's trying to make a buck off you just let's flag that. But also your body goes through, I had a C-section with my first kid and it was massive surgery. And then the second kid I was having foot cramps for a year. Just your body does stuff that we don't even talk about after having childbirth. Dias dias, what's it called? Dias rect.
Doree: Diastasis recie.
Kate: Yes. That's basically where your stomach muscles separate
Doree: <affirmative>.
Kate: So there's so much lack of control over these things. Not to mention the fact that your whole life has changed. So I think the gentle approach is the way to go.
Doree: All right. Yes.
Kate: Thank you listener. Okay.
Doree: Voicemail time. We have a voicemail also sort of about clothes in response to a different listener who called in with some really great thoughts about fashion and fast fashion that I made me kind of go on a little rant <laugh>, if you remember Kate <affirmative>.
Kate: <affirmative>.
Doree: But yeah, so we heard from another listener about this.
Voicemail: Sure. 35. I had a pause the pod moment after the reader called in about questioning whether we need to have a perfect wardrobe and the ensuing conversation that you guys had. And I'm so grateful for that conversation and for that listener who called that in. I feel like I have a lot to say on this and there's no way you're gonna play this. Cuz also I'm like, should I just hang up and try this again? But anyways, I just wanted to say that Michael Pollen's quote about being a vegetarian or just in general about eating really applies here. And his quote is, Eat food not too much. Mostly plants. And if we could apply this here, it's just like wear clothes, buy some of 'em. Hopefully they feel good. Clothes aren't an investment as much as anyone's gonna tell you, you can spend $500 on the leather jacket and a year later it might not treat you. And it made you happy in that time. And that's fine. And I just really appreciate you guys for subverting some of the narrative. Just wear whatever and try not to spend too much of it. Cause you never know when your body may change or when your knees may change and yeah, I really, Yeah, <laugh> came to a halting finish here on this voicemail. Appreciate you guys. Keep it up as always. Take care. Hope the pants are comfortable by,
Kate: Okay. I just first wanna say that I personally find Michael Pollen to be a problematic dude, but I like applying his most famous quote to close <affirmative>. Let it happen here. I think this is good. It's also kind of this listener. Sounds like they're practicing non-attachment a
Doree: Little bit. Yes, totally. Totally. And that was why, that was what I liked about this.
Kate: Yeah. I was thinking about myself today actually in just this compulsive need I feel to always buy a slightly different variation of a thing that I already own. That's perfectly fine. Do you know what I'm, Do you know what I mean? This specifically happened while I was buying groceries at Whole Foods and I looked over at the water bottles and I was like, Oh, I need a 37 ounce water bottle with a sippy as opposed to the 32 ounce that I already have with a straw. And I think I do the same with clothes of like, well I need another pair of white sneakers this time. I need it to be Adidas with a three stripe, even though I already have these superga white sneaker. What is that feeling of that constant collection and never being satisfied? What is that? Just capitalism and flowing through my blood. Yeah. I think it's, it's just capitalism. Okay. We've diagnosed it. It's capitalism. Thank you. But great food for thought. I know this is really helpful. Yeah. Alright, let's take a break and when we come back, we've got some little fair mes. Oh my God. All right, we're back. We asked Do now. Oh, I was, I'm sorry. When we edit this episode, can we just have it start by playing? I don't wanna wait to be like, Can we play some real Lilith Fair nineties tunes? No, because we don't have the music rights. Sorry. Okay. All right. Well hopefully I didn't get us in trouble by singing it. I think we're fine. Okay. Yeah, we asked you all delivered. We have some great Lilith fair memories. Just gonna take a little walk down the Lilith fair memory lane. Here we go.
Voicemail: Hi, this is Shannon calling in from Denver. I am calling with a little fair tale as you requested. So when I was 13, I went my very first concert with my mom and we went to little chair and when it was 98, So when I walked in, the chicks were playing wide open spaces cause we were a little bit late. So the concert had already started. Chicks were playing wide open spaces. I immediately burst into tears cause I was so overwhelmed and it was just a magical evening. I wore butterfly clips in my hair and my favorite butterfly tank top. And it was just a great moment in.
Kate: I'm imagining it brought me back. Yeah, I know. Yep. Yep. <laugh> Kate, do you wanna read this next? Oh yeah. Memory. Hello. This is a text. Hello from an OG Lilith fair attendee. It was my first concert. My parents took me and a friend for my 14th birthday in 1998 at the Rose Bowl related. I am now super, super gay. <laugh> amazing. I also love that so many of us were taken by our parents.
Doree: I know. How cute is that? Do you wanna read this next one too?
Kate: Of course I do. Okay. I got kicked in the mouth by a crowd surfer during the mighty, Mighty Boston tone set at a warped tour in oh two, and my friend got her first period at Lilith Fair. That is iconic. I mean, yeah, menstruating at Lilith Fair. You need to be lifted through the crowd Also. Lol. Saw NSYNC and 98 Degrees at a Jingle Ball. Oh, Jingle Ball.
Doree: Wow.
Kate: I saw the Mighty, Mighty Bostons open for Aerosmith at the Boston Garden in I think like 1993 or 1994.
Doree: Wow.
Kate: <affirmative> <affirmative>. That's a real Okay. Mighty real. Boston two for Tuesday right there.
Doree: <affirmative>,
Kate: The only thing you need more is like drop Kick Murphy's than you'd really be. My gosh. <laugh>. I know. All right, well, we have another memory voicemail.
Doree: We do. One more.
Voicemail: Hi, Kate and Doree. This is Brooke from Balance Bound. I am just getting caught off on Wednesday's episode and this little fair conversation I had to leave you message because it's really just getting me in all the fields. Kate, 1200 Curfews by the Indigo Girls is their one album that is truly, deeply a part of my soul. Dar Williams, I can't believe you mentioned Dar Williams. She has a song that was basically the soundtrack to my 17 year relationship with my high school boy boyfriend. And Fiona Apple and Sarah McLaughlin were the soundtrack to my 17 year old heartbreak. He and I was the first New Jersey I sat on the lawn all day with my friend, and it was really there that for the first time, I was exposed to the most diverse group of badass women I had ever seen. And I really feel like that day truly changed me and maybe contributed to the activist I strived to be today.
And I'm pretty sure that I floated outta there that day. I also saw Indico girls, Anita Franco, Dar Williams, Cheryl Crow, Sarah McLaughlin, all on their own tours throughout high school and college. I even saw Tori Amos on her little Earthquakes tour when I was 12 years old. Yes. At a tiny little theater called the Keswick Theater outside of Philadelphia. And then again when she performed at my college years later. But honestly, nothing will ever beat Tori Amos and a piano on a otherwise bear stage. When I was 12 years old, my mom was pretty cool to take me to that music and those women, all of em, they were just such an important piece of my youth. Thank for Trip Down memory. I'm sure I'll be talking to you soon, but just had you this voicemail. Bye.
Doree: Your mom
Kate: Was so cool. Oh, 12 years old at Tori Ams with your mom
Doree: Of an intimate acoustic show.
Kate: Oh. Oh
Doree: Wow.
Kate: This brought me
Doree: Back. That is a memory.
Kate: Her memories brought me back to hearing a DeFranco's Building buildings and bridges for the first time in a mix tape when I was 16. And that song, I mean, out of range, one of my favorite Annie albums. I mean, you just can't, Can't beat it. You can't like, and I don't know what there's an experience like for the teens now, but when you're just like a teen and you hear feminist rock for the first time and you're just like, Oh, <affirmative>, it feels good. Maybe it's like what my kids felt when they first heard Olivia rgo. I don't know. I mean, I feel like so much more music amazing is now feminism is much more mainstream now. Or Taylor Swift. I mean, her feminism has been, It's come around to a 12,
Doree: 12
Kate: Year old. Oh, to a 12 year old. Yeah. I mean, even like my kids and the way they love Break My Soul by Beyonce and I'm just like this, For whatever reason, this is doing something for them. Anyway, great memory, Brooke. Amazing memory. Thank you for sharing. Also, we should note that is Brooke from Our Balance Bound collab.
Doree: Yes.
Kate: We loves this whole podcaster. Looks the best. All right, well, the best do. What a treat. What
Doree: A treat. All right, everyone. Bye bye, Ta.
Kate: I don't wanna wait. Bye.