Mini-Ep 275: Sell Yourself Long
Kate and Doree delight over the addition of Penny the Puppy to Kate’s family. Then, they continue to hear listener stories about high school superlatives, discuss how to get out of Toddler Purgatory, and share a suggestion for the listener whose husband doesn’t like her new haircut.
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Transcript
Kate: Hello, and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I am Kate Spencer.
Doree: And I am Doree Shafrir.
Kate: And we are not experts.
Doree: No, but we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: And this right here in your ears is a mini episode where we hear from you. We share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability.
Doree: Please do remember, we are podcast hosts. We are only the experts in being podcast hosts.
Kate: And some other things.
Doree: Hm... Yeah, I'll have to think on that, but I'll get back to you.
Kate: Do you have one other thing you're an expert in? I would say I'm an expert about Phish.
Doree: Oh-
Kate: The band, not the animal.
Doree: Right. Right, right.
Kate: I feel like there's some other things we could claim expert titles in. I just want to-
Doree: You don't want to-
Kate: I want to toot our horns a little bit here.
Doree: You don't want to sell ourselves short.
Kate: No, I want to sell ourselves long.
Doree: Okay, all right. Fair enough. I like to under promise and over deliver.
Kate: That's also a fair approach. I admire that strategy.
Doree: Anyway, we do always encourage you to seek support, first and foremost, from a medical and/or mental health professional as needed. We are neither of those things for sure.
Kate: That is important to know. Yeah, we are not those things. Those things are important to seek.
Doree: Yes.
Kate: Oh, and but if you want to talk to us, you can leave us a voicemail or a text at 781-591-0390. Look, all I'm saying is put us in your favorites in your phone, and then we'll be right there. And you can email us... Make us a whole contact.
Doree: Yeah!
Kate: Forever35podcast@gmail.com.
Doree: And just a reminder, visit our website, forever35podcast.com for links to everything we mentioned on the show. Just click on the episodes tab, you'll get it all. We are also starting to have those transcripts. They're probably going to be a day or two behind... Just again, want to manage expectations. So don't go running to the site and expect it to be up the second that the podcast goes up, for various production reasons. That's just unfortunately not possible quite yet, but I think within a couple of days, we will be able to have those up on the site, within a couple of days of the episode coming out.
Kate: Yeah, thank you for everybody who provided feedback and thoughts on doing that. We're really excited-
Doree: Yeah, we're really excited to be able to do it.
Kate: To finally be doing that.
Doree: You can also follow us on Twitter and Instagram. Twitter, we are @forever35pod. On Instagram, we're @forever35podcast. I feel like we never say this, but you can follow our personal Instagrams too.
Kate: Yeah, you can. I'm @katespencer. And you're, what? @doree.
Doree: I'm @doree, at D-O-R-E-E.
Kate: Thank you, I was going to clarify how to spell your name because oftentimes it is misspelled by others.
Doree: This is my cross to bear.
Kate: Yeah, and that must be frustrating. So, D-O-R-E-E.
Doree: Thank you, Kate. C-A-I-T, right?
Kate: Yep, C-A-I-T, that's how I spell it.
Doree: Okay, that's what I thought.
Kate: No, I wish I did.
Doree: And you can-
Kate: I wish I had a unique spelling.
Doree: Yes.
Kate: Oh, go ahead. Sorry.
Doree: You can join the Forever35 Facebook group at facebook.com/groups/forever35podcast. The password is serums. And once again, a reminder that we have a newsletter. Next issue will be out on Thursday. You can sign up for that at forever35podcast.com/newsletter.
Kate: So, a few weeks ago we were talking about how we needed some feel-good celebrity news to get us through the January pandemic doldrums. And leave it to Rihanna to deliver.
Doree: I know. I'm very appreciative that she thought of us.
Kate: And also ASAP Rocky, but let's be real. Rihanna is the one who really delivered the news here. Rihanna is pregnant. She and ASAP Rocky are having a baby together. They had a beautiful paparazzi, walking photo shoot to announce it. It just was perfection in every way. It was the news we needed.
Doree: We all needed it.
Kate: We needed it. And look, I'm not saying that they knew that. Their family is for them, but I appreciate us getting a glimpse because that carried me. I was emotional.
Doree: Wow.
Kate: I didn't cry, but I was just giddy with joy. I'm so happy for them. They're so in love, and they're just sweet. I like them both very much, and I don't know. It felt good.
Doree: Yeah, it did feel good.
Kate: It felt better than watching those celebrities do those, that's not my name TikTok videos.
Doree: Oh yeah, those are so weird. They make me-
Kate: Those are making me uncomfortable.
Doree: They're cringey, right?
Kate: Yes, they are.
Doree: Yeah, they're a little cringey.
Kate: They're a little cringey. Especially because most of them I watch, and I don't know what character that is. All these actors don't have enough iconic characters, so they're showing people, and you're like, "What movie is that from?" You know who did it was Geena Davis. And that was one that I was like, "Okay, I know every single one of these characters. You can make this video." Well, listen, wow. Thank you for coming to my celebrity pop culture corner today.
Doree: You felt strongly about that. And I respect that.
Kate: I did. Well, listen, my friend Lauren Ashley Smith... Past Forever35 guest, Lauren Ashley Smith.
Doree: Yeah, come on.
Kate: Sorry.
Doree: We all know who she is.
Kate: MsLAS on Instagram has been covering those, and I hope she makes them into a highlight because her commentary is genius.
Doree: It is genius. She's a genius.
Kate: I know she is a genius.
Doree: Now, Kate-
Kate: Okay.
Doree: On a totally different subject.
Kate: On a not so genius move.
Doree: You have some big news.
Kate: It is really big, and dare I say, unexpected. Doree, my family welcomed a new member this weekend. We have a new animal member of the family. Her name is Penny. She is an 11-week-old Australian labradoodle. And no one is more surprised than me that we went through with this.
Doree: Really?
Kate: Well, I guess it's my fault because this is all I've wanted for years, is another dog, and a big dog.
Doree: Yeah, I feel like you've been talking about getting another dog forever.
Kate: I guess I have. I guess what surprises me the most is that I convinced everybody it was a good idea.
Doree: How did you do that? Enlighten us all.
Kate: Well, I'll be honest. It's mostly stuff I don't want to get into on the pod because it involves my children's social and emotional stuff that is theirs.
Doree: Sure, sure.
Kate: They're full-grown people and I want to respect their privacy. But let's just say that it felt like something that we could all benefit from as human beings. And there was a variety of research that went into things, and this is where we have ended up. But it has been a very joyful 72 hours since welcoming this dog into our home. Now you may know that we have one dog, Lucy, who is six. Lucy is not the biggest fan of other dogs. She gets overwhelmed, by big dogs, especially, which is part of the reason we wanted to get a puppy.
Doree: Yes.
Kate: Because, honestly, a lot of this was considering Lucy's needs.
Doree: That's good. That means you're a responsible dog owner.
Kate: Lucy is my best friend, so I had to make sure she was respected in this process. Well, Lucy and Penny the puppy are BFFs. Lucy is now the alpha dog. And-
Doree: I'm going to cry.
Kate: They're playing, which Lucy's not a big player, but now she seeks out play time with Penny.
Doree: Oh my gosh.
Kate: And it's just been very sweet. So, I'm tired. We're crate training and all that stuff, but it's been very joyful as well.
Doree: Should I get a puppy?
Kate: How do you think Beau would react to getting a puppy?
Doree: Well, this is what I'm wondering. I wonder if a puppy would bring out Beau's playful side.
Kate: It is interesting... I do think if you did want a second dog, it was where we landed. We had so many discussions about how to bring another animal into the family, and my kids are now holding Penny and waving her through the door. This has been an ongoing conversation for over a year between our whole family and our vet, et cetera. So, yeah, I think if you did want a second dog and that if you think would be the easiest way for Beau to handle it... Then I encourage you to adopt or rescue a puppy.
Doree: I don't think I am in a position right now to do that, but-
Kate: It's so much work. It's so much work. I forgot, I forgot. I forgot, Doree.
Doree: Well, you've never had a puppy.
Kate: We got Lucy when she was six-months-old. She was a puppy, and we did have to do a lot of training with her, but she wasn't as new as Penny.
Doree: She wasn't a newborn, yeah.
Kate: Exactly, exactly. So, there's definitely been a lot. It's been a lot of work, and I have a ton of work-work happening right now, so it's a bonkers time. But I'm just telling myself to just let it unfold, let it happen.
Doree: Totally.
Kate: I'm going to be tired. It's going to be stressful. But I think it is ultimately really rewarding and feels good. Shout out to Forever35 pets.
Doree: Oh, a great group.
Kate: They gave me a lot of advice. Yeah, a really great Facebook group. They gave me a lot of thoughts when this conversation initially started a few weeks ago. So, it's been going on for over two years, but it picked up a couple weeks ago.
Doree: One last question, how big will Penny the puppy get? Do we know?
Kate: Okay. So, yes, Penny the puppy will ultimately be around 50 pounds. I have always wanted a larger size dog. Growing up, I had a Bassett hound and a Maltese terrier. Lucy is a mut of a variety of things, so I've always dreamed of a large dog. Knowing that large dogs-
Doree: 50 pounds is a good size.
Kate: But large dogs take large poops, and that's just something I am really reckoning with right now. How big is Beau? 70 pounds?
Doree: Beau's 80 pounds.
Kate: Oh my god, that's huge.
Doree: He's a big boy.
Kate: And he takes 80-pound shits is what I'm hearing.
Doree: He does, Kate. Yeah, he does.
Kate: You have to pick up some big poops with a big dog.
Doree: Yeah, yep.
Kate: I'm not ready for that. I'm not ready for the big poops.
Doree: They're very robust.
Kate: You're a proud poop parent?
Doree: I'm not proud or not proud. It is what it is.
Kate: Yeah, I'm assuming you get used to it though, right? Lucy's poops are just more manageable, palm-size poops.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Wow. Never knew we'd talk about this on this podcast, but here we are.
Doree: Didn't you once find some poop of Lucy's hidden in your house?
Kate: Oh yeah, in my kids play area there was a dried poop. It was so gross.
Doree: That would never happen with Beau. If Beau pooped in the house, you would know it immediately.
Kate: But to me, that was more of a testament to how messy our play area was, that a dog could poop in it and we didn't notice for a while.
Doree: Oh, that's very funny.
Kate: That's not something to brag about.
Doree: That's very funny to me. Well-
Kate: But yes, I know what you mean. Beau's would be a [inaudible 00:12:32].
Doree: Yeah, exactly. Well, listen, Kate, congratulations on your new edition.
Kate: I thank you. I can't wait for you to meet her.
Doree: I'm excited. Me too.
Kate: She's real sweet. She's a sweet, little fluff.
Doree: Well, we should take a break.
Kate: Sorry, that was all me.
Doree: No, Kate, you had the big news this week.
Kate: Well, listen, bump that meal planning update for next recording on Wednesday.
Doree: Well, I will have more to report. So-
Kate: Okay, good.
Doree: There we go. All right, let's take a break because we have a lot to talk about when we get back.
Kate: Oh my gosh. Okay, yes. It's the superlative zone. All right, we'll BRB.
Doree: BRB.
Kate: All right, Doree. We're back. Okay, we got so many people sharing feelings about superlatives, and we wanted to share just some of the responses that we received. And they really vary from trauma, to positive experiences, to some current observations. So, shall we dig in?
Doree: Let us dig in.
Kate: Okay. All right. Well, this email I'm going to nominate most likely to make me cry because I did cry when I read it.
Email: Nearly 30 years later, I still shudder about my middle school superlatives. These were not given in the yearbook, but in an all-school assembly of close to 1,000 kids, where each person had to walk up to the podium to accept their superlative plaque. I was an extremely shy and insecure girl and nearly died when I heard through the grapevine that I was voted most shy. As someone who prided herself on perfect attendance all year, and whose parents made her go to school no matter, what I put on an award-winning fake illness show for them in order to play hooky that day and miss the assembly.
Unbeknownst to me, one of my friends, who had also been in the running for most shy, went directly to the teacher in charge of these superlatives on the morning of the assembly and made a case for most shy to be thrown out. I can't even imagine a fellow shy 12-year-old having the strength to go and do that. Kiara we haven't been in touch for decades, but thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Kate: Oh my god... I read that, and I just crumbled.
Doree: Why did people think this was a good idea? I'm not blaming the kids, because they're children. I'm blaming the administrators and the teachers who thought it would be a good idea to hand out superlatives in a school-wide assembly and have one of the superlatives be most shy. What the fuck?
Kate: In middle school, the worst time of all.
Doree: This is bananas to me.
Kate: It's so cruel, and unnecessary, and traumatic, and I empathized so deeply. As a fellow shy person, I would've been horrified. And this is not the only email we got about somebody who has really bad memories about being voted "most shy." There's other people who had to go through this. It's just so freaking cruel. And then, the image of this 12-year-old, one, feeling like she can't go to this assembly, and faking illness is just devastating. And then the other 12-year-old, who is also shy, speaking up to a teacher.
Doree: Yeah, this girl wins best friend.
Kate: Yes. Kiara, where are you?
Doree: Where are you, Kiara? We need to give you a plaque.
Kate: What if you listen to this podcast? And just the gratitude that the original listener feels now, 30 years later, to this other kid. It just really moved me.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: This just devastated me and moved me. And God, I don't know, it's really hard being a person and making it through these awful situations we're thrown into.
Doree: Right?
Kate: All right.
Doree: Let's hear another text.
Kate: Okay.
Text: I was "awarded" most likely to help clean up after graduation without being asked. Who comes up with these things?
Kate: That's a terrible one.
Text: Which was mortifying and made me feel like everyone saw me as a doormat. Thank goodness it wasn't printed in the yearbook, but it was announced at the all-class senior assembly, along with maybe 15 to 20 other superlatives, and came with a certificate.
Kate: Again, what?
Doree: What?
Kate: Who thought this was okay?
Doree: Who came up with this? Who approved this?
Kate: What?
Doree: Why did this happen?
Kate: Most likely to help clean up after graduation without being asked... Leave everybody alone-
Doree: Leave everyone alone.
Kate: Creator of this superlative. Oh my god, I hate this so much. I have shivers of angst and anxiety reading these.
Doree: Yes, they're just awful. All right. Well, since you have shakes and anxiety reading them, should I read the next one?
Kate: Yes. Although I have to say, I did get a slight chuckle out of this one.
Doree: All right. My high school had a worst driver superlative. Super-long story short, we had someone drive through a side of a barn and she didn't even win. Also, it was so inappropriate because we had at least one person die every year from car accidents. Jesus Christ.
Kate: I know. Okay, so I chuckled at the first part... Someone drove through a side of a barn and she didn't win. But also, this person is so right. This is so inappropriate.
Doree: So inappropriate. Oh my gosh.
Kate: All right. Well, we did have someone reach out with a positive experience about their superlatives, and I thought this was really a valuable share. They wrote
Just listened to the Monday Mini-Ep, and I'm sharing my experience with superlatives. I went to a very small, rural high school in the south, about 650 kids total. I was voted most likely to succeed. I have had a positive experience with my superlative because it showed me that people believed in me. Coming from our small town, where I still live, it is hard to see a path to professional success for many people. There are not a ton of job opportunities, and the college-going rate is very low. I attended college on a full academic scholarship, completed a Master's degree, and have had a successful professional career that included nearly 10 years with a Fortune 500 company.
I've now owned my own business for five years and persevered, despite the challenges of being a parent of a young child during COVID. I'm a solo entrepreneur. And this year, I plan to start adding to my team and start providing jobs to others. I get to mentor other women and students through business groups and support my community in various ways. I am grateful for the teachers and fellow students who saw something in me I couldn't see in myself. Their encouragement has meant a lot to me over the last 24 years since graduation. I'm proud to be able to live a life I love and give back to my very small hometown.
Doree: Well, this is sweet.
Kate: This is so sweet. This almost makes me like superlatives.
Doree: I still think on balance, they suck, but I'm glad that this person had a good experience. And it does sound like they fulfilled the promise of their superlative.
Kate: Yeah. And I also just appreciate that it helped them see something that they "couldn't see in themselves."
Doree: Totally, yes.
Kate: I think that's a really lovely way of experiencing this. And I'm so glad you had a positive experience, especially because most of the experiences we're hearing have been so formative in a negative way. So-
Doree: Totally.
Kate: I really appreciate this share.
Doree: All right. Well, one last email about superlatives.
Email: Hi, Kate and Doree.
I have three teenagers, including twin boys who are seniors, and a daughter who is a ninth grader. High school superlatives are still a thing. One of my twins was chosen class clown this year, along their best friend. In their high school, the top two vote getters get each superlative. No, we are in the East Bay, so I think there's awareness not to award based on top female student/top male student because of gender fluid and non-binary kids, but not enough self-awareness to not do these superlatives. Anyway, my one kid is fine with being class clown with his friend, but a friend of his was nominated most athletic as a mean joke, which everyone in our family agreed was not okay.
Adding a layer to that, a super athletic friend of his was upset because she didn't get most athletic because she came in third in the vote because the top vote getter was the top athlete at the school, but then the second highest was the mean joke nominee. So she was mad because she felt like she deserved the word as a top athlete. Another superlative was worst car. A kid who drives a Tesla one worst car because we are at a super racially and economically diverse school, and driving a Tesla is clearly deemed way too extra and showing your privilege. I imagine at a school where everyone drives fancy cars, this might have had a different result.
All this to say, that high school remains so high school, even in the East Bay in 2022.
Kate: Good, lord.
Doree: Yikes.
Kate: I got to start figuring out now what happens at my kids' future high school.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: I'm going to drive over there and dress as a teen. I'm going to be like Drew Barrymore in that movie. This is fucking wild, the fact that they did a joke nomination as most athletic.
Doree: Yeah, and all these people went along with it. What?
Kate: Isn't that ableist also?
Doree: The whole thing is just yuck.
Kate: It's yuck.
Doree: It's just yuck.
Kate: Yeah, it's yuck.
Doree: Let's end superlatives.
Kate: Also, worst car? What if that was happening where everyone drove fancy cars and then the kid with the not fancy car got it? And then it's also embarrassing to this kid, who for whatever reason-
Doree: Yes!
Kate: Is driving a Tesla. Look, just because they drive a Tesla doesn't mean they deserve to get singled out. I'm stressed.
Doree: Oh my gosh.
Kate: And this kid who was mad that she didn't get the award as top athlete is right. I hate all of this.
Doree: Yes! Totally. Right.
Kate: I hate all of this. I hate this. Oh my god.
Doree: Wow.
Kate: Oh my god.
Doree: Really?
Kate: This has been a journey. I never even thought about this topic. We didn't have superlatives in my high school yearbook to my recollection.
Doree: We didn't either.
Kate: Did you-
Doree: But we had them at camp.
Kate: Ooh!
Doree: Because my camp was filled with obnoxious people.
Kate: Who thrive on these things?
Doree: Who thrive on being bullies. So, yeah.
Kate: If there's a way to make this positive, like that one listener experienced, I would love to hear thoughts on how it's done. Because so far, most of what I hear is that this is an unfriendly-
Doree: Scarring.
Kate: And mean... Yes.
Doree: Yes.
Kate: And circling back to why we're even talking about this, we carry this pain with us through our entire lives. The shame I had as a fifth grader when my teacher showed me all the zeros in her homework assignment book because I wasn't able to do the homework mentally. And she shamed me and told me I was going to have to stay back a year. And that was how she was trying to get me to do the work, rather than getting me tested. I carry that shame with me every day. So it's this shit that just fucks with people.
Doree: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kate: Oh, I'm riled up. Oh, god. I wonder how many-
Doree: Well, Kate, let's take a break.
Kate: Yeah, let's cool off.
Doree: So we can all calm down. Yep.
Kate: Okay, all right.
Doree: We'll be right back. (silence)
Doree: All right. We have a text...
Text: Any advice on how to not feel like you're losing yourself completely while raising a toddler? I have a two-year-old and one on the way, and I can't even remember what I like to do, much less what my personal style or career goals might be. Any good grounding advice from two wise women who have been through this toddler purgatory?
Kate: Do you still feel like you're in toddler purgatory? You have a child who is still two.
Doree: I do. I feel like, to some extent, yes, I'm still in toddler purgatory, but I'm coming out of it I think, slowly but surely.
Kate: I have to say, listener, that I did not feel like I was coming out of this until my second child was maybe three. And I realize that's very discouraging, but this is just to say that it is very hard. And that it's okay if right now, if you're like, "I don't have career goals or style. I don't even know what time it is." Because of the way, one, it just is having kids. Two, the way, structurally, our systems are set up not to support parents. It's very hard.
Doree: I would also add that, like you, this woman is also going to have two very small children at the same time. So I am in a somewhat different situation because I only have one. But I think when you have the double whammy of a two-year-old plus a newborn, it's just like-
Kate: Yeah.
Doree: "Oh my god."
Kate: That is what I had. Yeah, I had a two-year-old and a newborn.
Doree: So-
Kate: And it was-
Doree: Yeah. I think that, first of all, one thing that I at least needed to do was really lower my expectations for myself and give myself a lot of grace just for making it through the day. I can objectively say that things are easier for me now. But I would say the first six months of Henry's life were quite difficult. And yeah, personal style, career goals? I was just trying to make it through the day. And so, I think there is an element of that, it's hard to long-term plan or big picture think when you're trying to keep a young person alive. You're trying to keep yourself alive. We're in a pandemic. There's just a lot of forces working against you right now. And I don't say that to be discouraging, I say that to say, don't beat yourself up about this. So, that's one thing. The other thing that I think is helpful is, if you can even have just a few minutes every day where you are just doing something for yourself. Whether it's reading three pages of a book, or taking a bath, or meditating, or looking at a celebrity website. Whatever it is.
Kate: Wordle?
Doree: Wordle.
Kate: Some Wordle?
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Do you Wordle?
Doree: Yeah, I don't know if you have a partner, but you need to have, I think, just that little bit of time at some point where there are no people who need something from you.
Kate: No one's touching your body.
Doree: No one's touching you. No one's asking you for anything. And if possible, I remember a very early guest Priyanka Mattoo... I remember she said-
Kate: I knew you were going to say this.
Doree: That she had her husband... And this was pre-pandemic, so things were a little different. But she had, I think it was every Saturday morning, to herself. And then I think she had one night a week where she went out with friends. But I think it's really good, if you are in a position to do so, to carve out that time for yourself and have it be a non-negotiable. And I know it's really, really hard, but to the extent that you can, I would try to do that. The other thing that I think is also really important is just maintaining contact with friends. Maybe that's having a phone call or a FaceTime. I feel like, Kate, we're basically FaceTiming three times a week.
Kate: I know.
Doree: You know what I mean?
Kate: If we didn't do this podcast, I would be isolated like crazy.
Doree: Same. And so, you don't have to start a podcast, but it's nice-
Kate: Or you could.
Doree: You could. It's nice to have that built-in time to just gab with a friend. So, those are some things. One other thing that I do just want to mention, I can't say too much about it yet, but I will be launching something new in the next few weeks that I think speaks very directly to some of the issues that you raise.
Kate: I'm very excited for the world to bear witness to this, Doree.
Doree: Thank you, Kate. Thank you for your support as always. Do you have anything else you would like to add to our friend?
Kate: No, I think that, honestly, my kids are so much older, I almost have blocked out the this time of my life because it was really hard. So I think you nailed it. I think you nailed the advice.
Doree: Well, thank you so much. All right.
Kate: Welcome.
Doree: We have one last missive from a listener, and it is a voicemail. So, let's hear it.
Voicemail: Hi, ladies. I just had my first pause the pod moment when you were talking about the listener who got her hair in a pixie and she was reading that her husband didn't like it. And I wanted to suggest that another podcast I have listened to about sex tips, I guess is what it is, but one of their recommendations was to wear a wig during sexy time. And I was just thinking that, that could be a solution for her feeling confident with her short hair during her regular time, daytime stuff. And then during sexy time, she could put on a wig and also feel empowered, and her husband might like it. I don't know, maybe that's a weird thing. I just thought of that. Also, I think that her husband just needs time to adjust to it because men are visual and slower to accept change, I think, as a stereotype, is what I would say. All right, I love you guys. Have a good day. Goodbye.
Doree: I will admit that this solution never occurred to me.
Kate: It didn't occur to me either. And I'm sure there are many people who wear wigs during all sorts of sexual encounters. The one thing that I just feel, this listener wouldn't be wearing the wig for themselves. They would be wearing a wig to make their partner's experience more pleasurable, which to me then takes the pleasure out of the...Unless the pixie cut listener is like, "Yes, I want to wear wigs during sex." But that's just adding more work for them. If anything, the husband should wear a blindfold. You know what I mean? It's your fucking problem, dude who can't handle a short haircut.
Doree: I will admit that I would never do this.
Kate: You'd never wear a wig during sex if you were-
Doree: Just because I had cut my hair and I thought my husband found me less attractive or something.
Kate: No! No.
Doree: For many reasons, one of which is just logistic.
Kate: Yeah, wigs get hot.
Doree: Wigs get hot. "Oh, wait. We're going to have sex? Wait, let me just go put on my wig."
Kate: There's so much, in this specific instance, where I think wigs during sex did not make sense.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Yeah, I don't know how I feel about this, but I appreciate the suggestion.
Doree: Totally.
Kate: Again, I really do think what this caller said after is, "Yeah, he just basically needs to deal with it." If he even has a problem. Remember with this original listener, she hadn't actually talked to her husband about this. She had just assumed, based on his reactions. And again, this is a valid conversation to have. Our partners are attracted to certain things about us, and physical traction is a real thing. As much as I want to downplay it and be like, "It's all mental."
Doree: We got a really lovely email about this today that I think we'll probably read on a future episode.
Kate: Yes, it came in after we'd already put this episode together. But yeah, I think we should too. We'll keep talking about this, it's a really interesting-
Doree: We will.
Kate: I think it's a really interesting conversation.
Doree: It is, it is. Well-
Kate: What if, Doree, I got a bad haircut and you didn't like it, and so I started wearing a wig to our podcast recording to make you more comfortable.
Doree: That, I feel like, is reasonable.
Kate: That's fine.
Doree: That is more than fine. In fact, I would prefer it.
Kate: Okay, I'll get on that. I will be blonde at our next recording.
Doree: I can't wait. Well, Kate, this has been a pleasure, as always.
Kate: So fun. Thank you everybody who reaches out and trusts us with your life experiences.
Doree: Yeah, all right. Well, we will talk to you all again in a few days.
Kate: Bye.
Doree: Bye.