An Announcement from Kate and Doree
This week’s episode comes with a big announcement: Kate has decided to retire as a co-host of Forever35. Please listen to the entire episode to hear Kate and Doree dig into this decision, the challenges of burnout and mental health, why quitting is a bittersweet form of self-care, their journey of being friends and business partners, and the direction Doree plans on taking the show come June.
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Transcript
Kate: Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Kate Spencer,
Doree: And I am Doree Shafrir,
Kate: And we are not experts.
Doree: We're not, we're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums,
Kate: But today we're talking about something that I'm doing, I think to take care of myself.
Doree: Oh, I was going to say, but one of us isn't going to be talking about serums for much longer.
Kate: You know what? And that just sums up our personalities So Clearly. Yeah, let's not beat around the Bush friends. Kate here I have decided to retire from Forever35.
Doree: Kate, why are you retiring?
Kate: Well, because I don't want to talk about serums anymore. Doree,
Doree: look, I get it.
Kate: I'm joking. I actually do still want to talk about serums. I just got a new retinol from my dermatologist, but we'll talk about that on another episode. Doree, I am retiring because quite honestly, I am experiencing some pretty extreme burnout that took me a really long time to even identify that has been impacting my mental health and my physical health for a while. And this is as extremely bittersweet for me and I'm nervous even talking about it, which you can probably hear in my voice, but I really have been feeling unwell and think that giving myself some quiet some time to just kind of take a step back and care for myself and spend time with my family and just kind of, I don't know, even give myself space to think about what I can do to just kind of care for myself quite honestly, because oftentimes that is a thing. I don't put first on the list until it's too late, and I kind of reached the too late stage in about December of this year, and it's kind of silly because I have this book coming out and the main character deals with burnout. This is the book one last summer that comes out in June and a friend and I was talking to a friend about this decision to retire from the show and they were like, well, yeah, I mean, you wrote the whole book about burnout. And I did not. The connection that while I was writing that book, I was extremely burned out writing about a burnt out person did not dawn on me until they said it. I thought I was someone who had experienced burnout in the past and was like, do expert, and it just, I've had a lot of health issues this past year and also have been, my mental health has been not great, and this is something that even though it's like I said really bittersweet and I've been agonizing over this and feeling all sorts of feelings, it's what I know is the ultimate form of self-care for me, which is hilarious that that is the point of this show. It took me doing this show to even get to that point.
Doree: Yeah,
Kate: So that's the news that that's the sad news for me.
Doree: Kate, when is your last episode airing?
Kate: My last episode? Co-hosting Forever35 with you, Doree. We'll be airing the last week of May, so I believe that date is May 29th. So you're hearing this on May 1st. We've got a month together. I'm saying that to you. I'm saying that to our dear listeners who I cherish so much.
Doree: Also, I want to make it clear in case people didn't know I was aware of when Kate's last day was, I was just asking her that.
Kate: Oh my gosh, can you imagine? I want to note two things, which is I love working with you now. This is what I'm going to cry. I love working with you so much and part of my not wanting, part of my not wanting to stop doing the podcast is because you are such an important part of my life and this show is so important to me and our friendship is so important. And so I was like, I both have been grieving letting go of this time that I get to share with you and this experience with you and just also and with our listeners also. But I do want to just note how gracious and supportive and kind you've been to me as I've kind of worked through all this because as a people pleaser and a person who is trying to work on that, my biggest fear is being met with anger or disappointing people or hurting people with my decisions, which is often why I don't make decisions so terrified and it's been helpful to get to make this decision with you as my partner because you have been so supportive of me and I know that this is a decision that changes things for you too, and I want to really note how much that's meant to me. So thank you, Doree.
Doree: Well, thank you, Kate. I mean, I'm obviously sad that you're leaving. I mean, it is the end of a big era in my opinion, and I guess I should talk a little bit about what I see happening with the show.
Kate: That's right, because the show isn't going anywhere.
Doree: The show must go on.
Kate: Listen, Doree, Doree is a show Biz profesh.
Doree: No, I mean I think the sort of obvious thing would've been, okay, we'll end the show. The show is us and our listeners, and it's been that way for more than six years, and obviously a huge part of the show is our friendship and our relationship. So I was like, well, that feels weird to maybe still do the show. But then I was like, well, I really like doing the show. What if I just kept doing the show? Well, and Kate also was like, you should keep doing the show if you wanted to keep doing the show. So I was like, Hmm, maybe I should. At first I was like, no. And then I was like, Hmm, so I'm going to keep doing the show. This could be a total failure. I don't know, it could totally flop. And everyone's like, Ew, this is horrible. Or you might be like, you know what? We loved Doree and Kate and this is just a different thing. It's not better or worse, it's just different. So yes, things are going to change, but I think change is good.
Kate: I agree
Doree: Change is needed in life as well as in podcasting. So I'm going to keep doing the show for the foreseeable future and here's what that's going to look like at least for the next few months. I'm bringing on a guest co-host Elise Hu is a former Forever35 guest. She wrote the amazing book Flawless about Korean Beauty. She's so excited and we are going to be hosting together for at least a couple of months while we kind of see how that goes. And at the end of that couple of months she might be like, I'm not feeling this. I might be like, I'm not feeling this. In which case I might go to a series of guest hosts. I might find a new permanent host. All is to say it's a little up in the air and I hope you listeners will kind of bear with me as I figure this out. So I wish I could definitively say this is exactly how it is going to be, but life doesn't always work that way. So we're going to go on this journey together. And also I should say, if you listeners have thoughts or suggestions, this is a time where I get to kind of rethink the show, reevaluate the show. I want to keep what has been the essence of the show, but there's certainly things that can change. Again, I'm open to change. I'm open to suggestions. I'm also open to you saying don't keep the show going. If that's how you feel, that's fine. So Elise will start after Kate leaves and we will see how that goes. We'll be doing at least one episode a week on the main feed, the Patreon. I do want to talk about the Patreon because the Patreon, which I have so loved doing with you, Kate,
Kate: I know that that's like a other, so other thing I'm weepy about. I love that Patreon,
Doree: we are going pause, or I guess I am going to pause the Patreon. So we're going to keep doing the Patreon through the end of May, and then as soon as Kate leaves, the billing on the Patreon will be paused, which will mean if you are a monthly Patreon subscriber, your billing will be paused. If you are an annual Patreon subscriber, you will get those months added on to the end of your membership because I kind of need to do one thing at a time, so I need to figure out the main feed first and then I can turn my attention to the Patreon, but I think the discord will still be going. I need to check on that actually. And similarly, if you have thoughts, ideas about the Patreon, let me know. And again, I'm open, but please reach out to us and yeah, I'm just like I'm holding a lot of feelings at once.
Kate: Yeah, same. It's a lot. It's a lot to do that.
Doree: Yeah, For sure.
Kate: And I will say one thing I have really been thinking about in making this decision is how the impact that the listeners of this show have had on both of our lives, but I'm just going to only, I'm going to speak for me, but that has been, no, I'm going to cry again man, and I'm on a lot of Prozac. I don't cry that much anymore. I kind of thought I wasn't going to cry because of that, but here I am. That has been beyond anything that I ever could have imagined, truly anything. I still have a hard time believing that anybody even hears this, but one thing I was telling my therapist recently is the only reason I really came to understand that I have ADHD is because so many listeners of this podcast and a certain co-host named Doree Shafrir very gently and lovingly called it to my attention. Truly, I have felt so seen in so many ways doing this podcast by our listeners, but that was such a gift that people gave me amongst all the other many gifts I feel like listeners have given us over the years. So I just want to make sure that I'm properly expressing my gratitude to the people who have supported this podcast. It has been beyond my wildest dreams about what anything creative or anything community focused could ever be. And so beyond grateful for it, and I am genuinely excited to see what you do with the show. Doree.
Doree: Thank you, Kate.
Kate: I think you're a genius.
Doree: Well, you and my mom.
Kate: Well, listen, that's two of us and that's enough.
Doree: That is enough. That'll keep me going
Kate: And shout out also to Sami and Sam who have been the backbone of this show in many ways.
Doree: Yes. Who will still be working with me as we move forward.
Kate: You really couldn't ask for a better crew.
Doree: It's true.
Kate: Well, I'm sure people might have questions or comments, which please do reach out. Thank you again for your listeners, for your kindness and trust over these last six and a half years. It's truly blown me away. It's been an unexpected journey and it's a hard one for me to end, I'll be honest. But I do think it is what is best for me. Sometimes. You know what, Emily? Oh my gosh. Emily McDowell, who has been on a guest on our show, wrote a really beautiful newsletter recently and she is now writing a lot about burnout and career and taking care of yourself. I mean, she's had a really interesting journey herself with this stuff, and she wrote a really incredible newsletter on her substack called Subject to Change and was someone had written a question about is it bad to quit something that I love or quit something that I'm good at or quit something that I worked. Here's what the headline is or the title. Is it Dumb to Quit something I worked hard to get? Am I a failure or a flake? And it's such a beautiful piece of writing because she talks a lot about how she thinks of quitting as completion, and I read this at the exact right time as I'd been gearing up to have this conversation on air with you, you and I, this is not a surprise to you. You and I have talked at great length about this stuff, but I just thought it was really beautiful thinking about things she said in a conversations about quitting failure and walking away. There's a word in concept I think is underused completion, and she says declaring something complete also means actively calling back your energy from that thing, which allows you to choose to reallocate that energy somewhere else. It's a really lovely essay. I don't know if folks want to give Emily a follow, but it really spoke to me. Wow, a lot of feelings today. Should we take a break? Let's take a break. Well, and also it wouldn't be this podcast without reminding you that you can visit our website Forever35podcast.com for links to everything we mention on this show. Our Instagram is @Forever35podcast. You can shop our favorite products, which look, I still enjoy products at shopmy.us/Forever35, and if you do want to reach us, you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message. That number is (781) 591-0390. You can always email us forever35podcast@gamail.com. Doree. We do have some listener questions for this episode. Great. Which I would love to get to, but I do want to say that we have a few more episodes together. Do I do feel like it would be fun to just reflect on what the hell these last six and a half years have been. What a wild ride. We don't have to do that right now, but I do just want to note, I have been reflecting on this a lot and it's a big wow for me.
Doree: Yeah, For sure.
Kate: So maybe we'll work that into my last few episodes here on the pod.
Doree: Great. I look forward to that.
Kate: Okay, well, here is a question we received. This is a longer question, but this kind of, I don't know. This spoke to me and I thought I wanted to get your thoughts Doree and maybe some other folks out there have some thoughts for this listener. They wrote, I am writing for advice on how to best support my husband who's trying to make a career change but dealing with a lot of rejection after both being college professors. The career that both of us dreamed about for five years, my husband and I were burnt out together. We decided to move out of state so that I could take my dream job in a new career, even though my husband had no job prospects here, it was a risk that we were both comfortable with at the time since he knew he also wanted a career change and we thought that this would give him time to explore new career options. However, this has been so much harder for my husband than either of us expected he had to take some time off job searching to work on his mental health, and after that crisis, he now is a therapist in medication. He has also spent the last month or so applying to jobs in earnest since almost a year now since we moved. It's becoming financially necessary for him to find a job. We both thought that he would not have a hard time finding a job once he decided the career he wanted. Some of his credentials are through the roof, however, he has not heard back about a single job application. My husband is feeling the rejection hard. I really have been trying my best to support him, but it has been difficult to figure out what to say. Clearly he is not in a good place and every day can feel like an emotional rollercoaster. One mention of jobs or applications can send him in a spiral. Do you have any advice on how to better support my husband or do you have any advice for him about career changes and finding a new job?
Doree: This is really tough, and I know just sort of anecdotally, it's a really tough time right now for people in, I feel like there's probably an updated term, but white collar jobs, like office jobs essentially. There have been a ton of layoffs across multiple industries, and I think people also, this is just based on what I see people posting on LinkedIn, people feel really gaslit right now because the unemployment rate is allegedly very low, but these jobs are getting thousands of applications and it's gotten really hard for people to find work. So I just say that I don't know if it's reassuring to know. I think to me, it sounded like in this letter that your husband feels like he's the only one who's having trouble finding work, and I'm just offering that to say you are not alone. It's really hard right now and a lot of people are going through what you're going through. So maybe that I would just sort of offer that. The other thing that I would say is I am by no means a job search expert, but I do think that now is the time to really exploit all of your weak ties. By which I mean it is the time to reach out to the person you were friends with in college who maybe you haven't talked to in a few years, but who works at a company that you want to work at, and it's like, it's time to do that. It's time to do all of that for you and your husband. I think your husband could put together an email and send it out to basically everyone he knows. You don't want it to sound too sad, but I think just sort of being, matter of fact, I left academia. I'm looking for a position in X, Y, and Z. If you hear of anything or if you'd be willing to just get a cup of coffee with me or talk to me on the phone about how it's going, I would really appreciate that I've attached my resume, that kind of thing. I think it's, it's going to be more effective than just kind of blindly applying to stuff off of LinkedIn because those jobs are getting hundreds if not thousands of applicants.
Kate: Wow.
Doree: The more, and I know people, sometimes people are sort of allergic to the term networking, but I think you got to do it. So I'm sorry. I mean, I know as someone who also left academia, although I never got to the point where I was a professor, I think academia has been so challenging for so long that I think sometimes people think well just leave and everything will be perfect, and in fact, there is no perfect anywhere, so hopefully your husband can find something. You didn't say what field he's in, but maybe there's an opportunity for freelancing or consulting, just something that's going to kind of keep him busy I think would be great. Kate, do you have anything to add?
Kate: I do. I know when I have gone through bouts of being unemployed or not even unemployed or looking for a career change or change jobs and that really discouraging feeling, especially sometimes it's discouraging when you get zero reply and then it's discouraging when you make it almost to the end of the application, like the interviewing process and then they're like, well, bye. I mean, it's all extremely hard on the self and the ego and also the pocketbook. It's all fucking hard. One thing that I do think, and this is just kind of something that has worked for me, is I often feel like I have no purpose when I'm going through these times and whether that's taking a job that you get to show up for part-time, whether it may not be the job that they're, or the career that they're trying to have right now, but even just having a job that you get to show up for and do the work and be proud of your work, I think can be really fulfilling if volunteering, if that's within your partner's means. I know that finances are an issue, but even volunteering something where you get to be of service and work on something, I find personally very gratifying because the depression really kicks in when you are sitting at home emailing into the void. It's just brutal. Now, again, might be easier said than done, but that is something that has sustained me in the past.
Doree: I think that's really good advice.
Kate: Well, we wish you and your husband a lot of luck.
Doree: Yes. All right. Well, let's dive into this next email. I'm a longtime listener. I was very excited to hear you talk about languages and specifically Finnish on your recent Patreon episode. That's finish the language referring to Finland, not like finish finishing
Kate: A task finish line.
Doree: Yeah. I'm an American living in Helsinki for two years now. A lifelong dream after being here as an exchange student in high school and language learning is a hobby of mine, especially now. I'm not perfect at finish, but I can at least get by in bank appointments in pretty much all day-to-day situations. I've only taken one grammar course since coming back to Finland and otherwise I've learned using the comprehensible input method, which they link to a site called Opto, and the comprehensible input method is apparently how to learn a language fast.
Kate: Interesting. Okay.
Doree: Focusing on listening to podcasts, watching YouTube videos and reading material a little above my current level. I also used I talkie extensively, especially in the beginning. For me, it is the fastest and most fun way to learn a language. I previously studied Spanish for many years, but only really learn to speak and understand when spending a summer in Peru. Finn is extremely hard to learn. For most people, since very few already know a language in the Ric language family, it is a synthetic alu language, which means in Finnish, more than 20 different types of endings can be added to words in different combinations, all of which change the meaning.
Kate: Oh my Gosh.
Doree: Prepositions are instead suffixes added to the end of nouns and adjectives. When endings are added to words, the base word changes, so it is sometimes unrecognizable. I once struggled in the grocery store reading the ingredients list of bread. The word for rye is, I dunno how to pronounce this, Ruiz and the ingredients list had a Eva. Viva is grain. I'm a hundred percent butchering this, but
Kate: you're doing great.
Doree: Ruing is the generative case, possessive, so it means rise, but it is almost unrecognizable from Rui. Words can also be smooshed together into a single insanely long word like the world's longest single word palindrome, which is finish. Okay. Kate, are you ready for this?
Kate: Yes. You're doing so well. I'm so into this
Doree: UA ki P, which as I'm sure was obvious to you, Kate means soapstone vendor.
Kate: My first Guess
Doree: In the end, it is highly regular with few exceptions, but there are so many rules. It's almost like there are no rules at all since it's impossible to remember them all, but it is also very logical, which my brain really enjoys. It's definitely not for the faint apart, but I also think learning new languages actually changes your perspective in many ways since different words with different connotations exist in different languages and they can be difficult to translate directly. Those words to me can really highlight differences in culture and thinking between people. Sauna culture is huge in Finland.
Kate: Maybe I would enjoy Finland. Yeah.
Doree: Sauna is maybe the only finished word that has really entered the lexicon of many other languages. Loy is the word for the steam in the sauna when you add water to the hot on the sauna stove, a perfect cozy word which tells a lot about Finnish culture. Love the pod. Thanks for all the work you do.
Kate: Okay. I've learned so much. I've learned so much, and I would like to go to Finland. I just want to say I would enjoy that.
Doree: I would too. Kate,
Kate: Let's go Loy up our bodies and there is a chain, like a sauna chain in the Pacific Northwest and I believe it's called Loy.
Doree: Oh, that's so interesting.
Kate: I've been there with friends who live in Portland. Yeah.
Doree: Wow.
Kate: I know. It's a great word. Thank you for teaching us about finish. That was fascinating.
Doree: That was really fascinating. I was so excited when we got this email.
Kate: I knew that would scratch your brain itches. It's like perfect for you.
Doree: Okay. All right, Kate, should we take another little break?
Kate: Yeah, Let's do that. Let's do that.
Doree: Okay. All right. We are back.
Kate: Okay, here's a message. There's no finish in this message. Unfortunately, I'm a newly 37-year-old who still gets hormonal acne on the chin. I believe it's mostly Whitehead. The rest of my face is usually always clear. Just my chin is still a problem and it's embarrassing for me. I wash my face twice a day. If I'm wearing makeup, I always use me or water before washing my face. But even as of late, I do not let any makeup cover my chin. I also occasionally use Mario anti-acne serum and drying lotion, but overall I feel like it doesn't do anything anymore. Is there anything else I can try before seeing a dermatologist? I've also never been to a derm before, so maybe I should look into that. Okay. Yes. I would say take your own advice here and go see the dermatologist. And I would also pull back on the product usage. I would wash your face moisturize and during the day put on sunscreen and just let your skin live for a little bit and see if that helps. And if you are comfortable not wearing makeup for a bit, maybe also, or just doing a mascara, not putting it all over your face, just see what happens.
Doree: I also just want to ask, are you someone who leans their chin on their hand a lot?
Kate: This is fascinating, right? Because that can cause acne.
Doree: Yes. Are you touching your chin even subconsciously throughout the day? And if so, that could be contributing to it. It also might not be, but that definitely could be something that's happening.
Kate: I think it's also worth, I would first go to the derm, but then maybe finding an esthetician that you form a relationship with who you trust to help with your skin might be nice if that's something that is within your means. Just a thought, excuse me, A question for me via text, unless you have secretly been horseback riding. Doree,
Doree: Kate. I have not.
Kate: Okay. So we received this question from a listener. I would love any updates on your riding journey when you shared about the clarity you've gotten around your goals, connecting with horses, trail riding, et cetera. It felt like you were speaking out loud. My exact feelings before I had even figured it out myself, a fellow horse person. So I, as you may recall, fell off a horse in June of 2023, and then I rode again after I was honestly a little spooked from that fall and I hurt myself. And then I sprained my ankle at the end of August and I sprained it really badly and I'm still strengthening it and it's still stiff. And then I got plantar fasciitis, and so the long and the short of it is I haven't really been riding since probably August, and I am kind of just sitting with that right now because while I really love horses and miss being around horses and I like riding, but I really just love getting to groom a horse and put on their halter and walk 'em around the block. I'm also trying to have less on my plate, as you probably gathered from the initial conversation on this episode. So I have not, and I'm also just trying to make myself kind of do less and see how that feels. So I haven't been riding lately, but I still love horses and I feel like I will hopefully come back to it when I feel ready again.
Doree: I feel like it's the kind of thing, and I have ridden a horse once in my life, so I'm far from an expert here. But from what you have described, it does seem like a thing where you could not ride for five years and you could literally get back on the horse.
Kate: Yes. It's like an old friend that you haven't talked to in a long time, and then you see them and you pick right back up where you left off and there's no hard feelings for both of you being absent from each other's lives for a bit. That's how riding is to me.
Doree: You're saying horses don't hold grudges is what I'm hearing.
Kate: I hope not, but I bet there's one out there that does that. We could find one
Doree: That's really funny. Well, Kate, I hope that if you do want to pursue horseback riding again, you will.
Kate: I'll keep you posted. Okay. I'll text you and then maybe you'll come with me sometime. You're not a horse. You don't like horses, right? You wouldn't want to ride or would You would. Okay. Oh, you would? Oh, sorry.
Doree: It's not that I don't like horses.
Kate: Well, some people are
Doree: Not a monster.
Kate: Some people really are creeped out by horses or scared of horses. Yeah, yeah. Oh, interesting. Have strong feelings about horses. Yeah. No,
Doree: I think horses that are great. I just was not a horse girl. There were a couple of girls I knew in elementary school who were really into horses, but it was just not something that was even sort of on my radar.
Kate: I
Doree: Feel like if I'd been like, mom, I want to ride horses, she would've been like, Hmm. She almost wouldn't have known what to do. Do you know what I'm saying?
Kate: Like when I told my parents I wanted to play bagpipes and they were like, what?
Doree: Yeah, right. So it just was like not, I don't know. So it's hard for me to say whether if my mom had been super into horses and I'd been riding horses since I was three or four, that I would've been super into horses or if it was just sort of an exposure thing and that's why I just never got into it. But there are other things that I was not necessarily exposed to that I later got into, but I think the barrier to entry with horses is higher, and so it just always felt like a lot to take on to start as an adult, which people, that
Kate: Totally makes sense.
Doree: People Do. But it was just like, you know what I have, I have other things I can do, but it's not because I don't like horses. I just want to make that clear.
Kate: Yes. Okay. I feel clear about that now.
Doree: Okay, good. Okay. Should we get to this last question?
Kate: Let's do it.
Doree: Okay. Huge fan of the pod and all that you do. Curious if you or your listeners have any advice how to take meaningful breaks while working from home? I'm a partner to law firm and work long hours with most of the day spent sitting in front of a computer. When I was in an office, I would take short breaks throughout the day to chat with coworkers or walk to grab a coffee or lunch. Generally getting a quick change of scenery and some social time. When I'm working from home though, I find that my quote breaks just involve scrolling through social media or mindlessly scrounging for snacks, not truly restorative or fun. What do folks do to get a real break during the endless slog that is work from home? I'll also add that because of my workload, I try not to take too much time out of my day. So a midday exercise class, for example, would not be doable. Crossword puzzles, jumping jacks would love to hear what others do.
Kate: This is so hard. I find working from home to be, it's something I've loved and longed for and feels like a real privilege, but it's also kind of, I don't know, the lines get blurred real fast.
Doree: Yes. I was just talking about this with someone who was saying that either their company or their husband's company was requiring people to go back into the office and they were like, I get 10 times more done at home than I do in the office when I'm at home. Oh, they were talking about their husband. That's right. That their husband is chained to his desk basically all day.
Kate: Oh my goodness.
Doree: And because they work from home, they're, they're kind of always on and there's never a time to take a break, whereas if they were in the office, there would just be more fluidity built into the day. And it's just ironic that companies are using the, they're not productive card, which I don't think is actually true. I think it's more of a control thing. Anyway, that's just the whole sidebar. I want to preface my advice by saying I don't always practice what I preach, but I'm going to preach this because I do think that it is a helpful thing to do, which is I think you can pretend you're taking a smoke break. Because setting aside, the whole cigarettes are addictive, whatever. Smokers always got a break. They just always got a break in the office. They would go out for smoke once an hour, once every couple of hours. They would get those 10, 15 minutes to just chat with coworkers and smokers always became friends and it was a whole thing. And those of us who didn't smoke, I just didn't build those breaks into my day. I dunno about you, Kate, but that just didn't happen. I feel like smoke breaks are not a thing anymore. Do people still smoke? I don't know.
Kate: I don't know. There was a whole episode, I'm rewatching friends and there was a whole episode about how Rachel's boss and a different employee were bonding. They were the smokers, so they would talk business outside and it was like, oh wow. Yeah, that is totally true.
Doree: It was totally a thing. I remember people getting together romantically because they bonded on smoke breaks.
Kate: Wow.
Doree: Anyway, my point is that I would just try to build in a 10 to 15 minute break every, let's say two hours and have an alarm or just something for that period of time. Can you go out and walk around the block? I don't know where you live, but just the shortest time of being outside I think is just a good reset. It doesn't have to be an hour long walk or an exercise class. I think if you literally just walk around the block, it will be helpful. I dunno, I always find getting outside to be the best reset.
Kate: I love that suggestion. And I also think maybe you could have an accountability buddy for this. Is there somebody who you can text and be like, it's time for our 10 minute break, or someone you could work with? I personally find, and recently I've been really struggling to work from home and I've had to just been going to every coffee shop I can think of because just being around other people and out of my home space where I'm immediately like, got to clean this mug, got to refill the dog's water bowl. I just look at all my home things. But being out in another space with other people, I think mirroring can be a really powerful tool for working out of the home. But then you get a break, you get a car ride to a coffee shop. I just think it helps break up the day a little bit. I don't know how that would work for a lawyer, but yeah, I think being vigilant about it would be good. But I also just want to say, I think it's okay if your breaks are just scrolling through social media or mindlessly scrounging for snacks. Like you said, they're not truly restorative or fun, but I also feel like you're doing the best you can. It's okay if those are your breaks too. I love a crossword puzzle. I love a jumping jack and a stretch. Maybe like a 10 minute stretch.
Doree: I will tell you some things that I do when I need a little brain break.
Kate: Yeah, What do you do?
Doree: Sometimes I play a couple games of best fiends.
Kate: Yes, I do this too.
Doree: Sometimes I go into the New York Times games app and do Wordle or Spelling Bee or just kind of futz around on those. Sometimes I'll look on TikTok for a few minutes. These are phone-based breaks. I do still maintain that the best restorative break is to go outside, even briefly.
Kate: We have a friend who was doing some work sprints on Zoom and when she would lead them, we would work for 20 minutes and then she would lead us in five minutes of stretching out of your chair. And it really helped
Doree: love that
Kate: and that's not something I would ever do for myself. I would never even give myself those five minutes.
Doree: Actually, you made me think of something, which is like you said, you don't have time a workout class, but I would say most fitness apps now, like Peloton, I think Aloe Yoga has these too. They have five or 10 minute yoga classes
Kate: And chair yoga that you could do right at the desk.
Doree: Yoga with Adrian has short, really short classes. So you could just do one of those and just kind of again, just reset.
Kate: I also do want to add that what could be really restorative for you, and this is something I'm really out of practice on, but I love is a kind of meditation break and I'll do five minutes, I'll put my feet up on the couch and lay rest my body down on the ground and just close my eyes for five minutes and put on a timer and just breathe. And it really is restorative.
Doree: I love that.
Kate: Well, let's tootaloot on over to the intention zone, Doree.
Doree: Okay, let's do it. Okay.
Kate: So I will say that last week I had committed to signing up to walk a half marathon with my friends. I was with two of those friends recently and we all still want to do it, so now we just need to sign up as a group. So it is in the process of happening.
Doree: Very cool. Kate.
Kate: Yeah, so I'm excited about this. I also just want to reign myself in a little bit because I'm doing what I tend to do, which is like, oh, I was going to set the Barlow and walk it, but what if I ran walked it and I did a run walk. It's like,
Doree: No,
Kate: Stop it. Stop adding to your plate, Kate.
Doree: Oh my God. Yes.
Kate: My intention for this week is I honestly just kind of sit with my decision and this episode I think to just, I obviously have a lot of anxiety about sharing this and just kind of feel the feelings that I'm going to feel and also trust that I'm doing something that I need to do to take care of myself. Just trying to just sit with all of it. It's a lot for me. And so I'm just going to kind feel those feelings. I think Doree,
Doree: Well, I'm here if you ever need to talk through your feelings.
Kate: Oh, thanks. I've talked through a lot of them with you already, so you know what? I'll take you up on that again.
Doree: Great. Well, last week I think I was just thinking about Passover and I still don't have any real plans for tonight. So much of my mental energy and actual energy was spent on doing Henry's party yesterday that I just had nothing left in the tank to think about Passover. But what I did decide to do, and this was something I decided to do today, we're recording this on the first night, the day of of Passover. I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to make Matza ball soup.
Kate: Oh, yea.
Doree: That's it. So I'm making Matza ball soup and then tomorrow night we're going to a very informal second night Seder at a friend's and there'll be other kids there. And yeah, I think it'll be very low key, but nice to be in community.
Kate: Yeah, that sounds lovely.
Doree: And then this week, I know because we're recording this ahead, the timing of stuff is sort of off, but Henry's actual birthday is on Wednesday and yeah, I want him to have a special day and feel good about turning five. I think for little kids, getting bigger is really complicated. Talk about holding different feelings. They're so excited to get bigger, but there's also some mourning around that and change. A lot of change is happening. He'll be in kindergarten next year, and so I think Turning five is a big sort of moment for him, and I just want to kind of honor that as you would say.
Kate: Can I also just add, I know I've really felt a lot of big feelings when my kids turned five. That's a big milestone. So also I just want to acknowledge the bigness that it might be for you too.
Doree: It is big. It's also like, oh my God, it's been five years, I think because we've been doing excellent adventure for so long. People have really been on that whole journey with us. So when I posted a picture of his birthday cake on Instagram, I got a lot of messages from people being like, holy shit, he's five.
Kate: Yes.
Doree: You know what I mean? They also are like, oh my God.
Kate: Yes.
Doree: I think that's partly the pandemic, but I think also it's just like time. Time.
Kate: Yeah.
Doree: So yeah.
Kate: Happy birthday, Henry.
Doree: Thank you.
Kate: Happy birthday, Doree.
Doree: Thank you. Well, Forever35 is hosted and produced by Doree Shafrir and Kate Spencer, for now, and produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast. Thanks everyone for listening.
Kate: Bye.
Doree: Bye.