Episode 391: Just Try Stuff with Charlene Kaye

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Written By Forever 35 Podcast

Musician and comedian Charlene Kaye joins the show to talk about the sibling rivalry that led to her career choice, what she loves about analyzing pop songs, why she’s in Labiahead (her all-female Radiohead cover band), and her advice for people who want to explore their creative side.


Photo Credit: Sam Pickart

Transcript

 

Dori Shafrir (00:10):

Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dori Shafri.

Elise Hu (00:17):

And I'm Elise Hugh and we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

Dori Shafrir (00:21):

Elise, do you want to tee up our amazing guest today?

Elise Hu (00:25):

We have the multi-talented Charlene Kaye on our show today. She is a musician. She is a comedian. She is a guitarist, a dancer. She's like so many things. She's a creator. I originally discovered her because I originally discovered her in a way that many of you may have discovered her if you're already following her on TikTok or Instagram, which is she makes these songs. She writes these songs that are like every Taylor Swift song is like, and then she performs basically what sounds like a Taylor Swift song by deconstructing the elements of it in order to help us learn a little bit about it. And she did that for Ed Sheeran. She's done it for Chapel Roan. And as we learned during our conversation, the artists like it. They have reached out to be like, oh my God, you figured it out.

Dori Shafrir (01:21):

Most of them like it.

Elise Hu (01:22):

Yes. Teaser.

Dori Shafrir (01:24):

Teaser. Yeah. It was really cool to talk to her. She's such a fascinating person and so interesting and so talented and just cool. And she had great lipstick on. But if you want the details of her lipstick, you have to be a Patreon subscriber. Sorry.

Elise Hu (01:39):

That's just

Dori Shafrir (01:40):

How it worked out. That's just how it worked out. No, I meant to ask about it during the main episode and then I forgot. And then during the Forever35 questionnaire, which is the little bonus thing that we do with our guests every week on our Patreon. I was like, "Oh my God, the lipstick." So yeah, you can find that at patreon.com/forever35. Elise, how are you doing?

Elise Hu (02:05):

I'm doing well. I ended up not getting to travel. I think we talked about this in last week's mini episode that I was expecting to go to New York, didn't go to New York. The airlines thwarted my plans. They all decided by Saturday night even that they weren't going to fly. So I had moved my Monday flight back to Sunday or a day earlier in order to avoid the oncoming blizzard. But even then I was flying American Airlines and American was like, "Nope, nothing.

Dori Shafrir (02:34):

We're

Elise Hu (02:34):

Offering nothing and you can reschedule." And then when I tried to reschedule, they were like, "Nope, the next three days are all canceled." So I ended up getting to stay here in lovely Los Angeles and be under the sun. In fact, it was pretty hot. And yeah, we did my birthday party. We did a chill birthday party. Nothing that made me black out. There was one birthday party.

Dori Shafrir (02:58):

Oh no.

Elise Hu (02:58):

My 41st birthday, a couple years ago, we did it at this bar. We did a bar buyout and Rob's band played. Rob is a guitarist and he doesn't usually sing, but he decided to write a song about me and it's like a musical comedy song. And he serenaded me with it. And he wrote it with this composer friend of his who's also in the band. And they took some time. Apparently they'd practiced and spent time songwriting sessions coming up with it and all of this stuff. And then the big performance was on my birthday. I don't have any memory of this at all because I guess I just like people buy me shots or buy me drinks and I'm just a yes person. I'm a yes-ander and I have no memory of this. And Rob was like, "Now I'm going to have to record it somewhere.

(03:49)
Now we have to have a separate recording session." And he gave me the lyrics and I was just like, "That's really sweet. And I feel like you really got me. " And it was very funny. Lots of inside jokes in there and would have been great to be there for it. I was there-

Dori Shafrir (04:06):

Wow. So it was like that. I

Elise Hu (04:07):

Was there physically. Yeah. I was there physically, but apparently not there in spirit because folks were like, "You were having a great time." I just don't remember. So that didn't happen. I pretty much remember most of the night on this past Saturday. Oh my gosh, that is so funny. And it was great to see you. Dora, you were actually having to drive all the way across town because you were even farther than where you live in order to be at a birthday party of one of Henry's friends,

Dori Shafrir (04:36):

Right? Yes. One of Henry's friends had an uncharacteristically late for a seven-year-old birthday party. It started at 5:00 PM and it was in Pasadena, which is quite far from where I live anyway. And then on a Saturday afternoon, getting across town in Los Angeles is not the best. So it took me an hour to get there. And Henry had fun and then I drove home and got him ready for bed. And then I went to Elisa's party.

Elise Hu (05:13):

And by the time Dori gets there, I was like, "Do you want birthday cake? We just cut the birthday cake." And she's

Dori Shafrir (05:17):

Like, "Absolutely

Elise Hu (05:18):

Not.

Dori Shafrir (05:18):

I do not. " I just had birthday cake, but- I do not want birthday cake. It looked yummy.

Elise Hu (05:25):

We did the chocolate doubash from our small business owner bakery, Angel Made, where all our family gets all of our cakes. Yeah, very, very delicious. It was a really good time. I'm glad we did it the way we did. We did this thing where instead of like a sit down dinner or a party in one place where you have to meet a certain bar minimum or anything like that, we did it at this giant space, or our friend Rose's space that's kind of a food hall where there's lots of different stalls. And so she just reserved a certain area for us where people could kind of order from wherever, like five or six different restaurants. And then they would bring food and drink to that area. And that way, you could kind of eat early and then go or you could not eat or you could just go to the bar.

(06:15)
It was just very chill. And as you know, I love all my friends becoming friends. And so there were a lot of mom friends that don't make it out a lot. Oh my gosh. So I got to see them in a social setting.

(06:28)
Yeah. So that was good.

Dori Shafrir (06:29):

I know. I'm sorry. We were like texting about the weather and your flight. And it was funny too because Delta and JetBlue had canceled their flights like much earlier and American kept ... Your flight wasn't canceled for like most of Saturday.

Elise Hu (06:47):

That's right. Yeah. It wasn't until evening.

Dori Shafrir (06:49):

Yeah. I was like, "American's optimistic. I'm going to ... Hopefully that turns out to be the case." And then they were like, "Nope, just kidding."

Elise Hu (06:57):

United held out. United actually got flights out, I think, on Sunday. Oh, wow. And that's how David, who's my colleague who we wound up, who we were going to the same place, he was flying back from Buenos Aires and moved some things around in order to get into New York or to Newark. And apparently it was like the last flight into Newark before the snow.

Dori Shafrir (07:19):

Well, I hope everyone who was affected by the snow has dug themselves out by this point because it was a lot of snow. I mean, parts of Rhode Island got over three feet of snow. It's a lot of snow.

Elise Hu (07:33):

I don't think I've ever been under that much snow.

Dori Shafrir (07:36):

Three feet? I mean, three feet is like so much snow. All right. Well, Elise, let's officially introduce our guest. Charlene Kaye is a musician and comedian based in New York. And as a musician, she has opened for Arctic Monkeys, Alt Jay, St. Vincent and Metallica. And as a comedian, she has been touring her critically acclaimed show, Tiger Daughter, or How I Brought My Immigrant Mother Ultimate Shame for the past three years. And her internet comedy is truly in a league of its own. She created the wildly viral every Taylor Swift song, which has over a hundred million views. And she spends her free time starting ridiculous cover bands such as Guns and Hoses, Labey Ahead, and No Goubt, which is Medieval No Doubt, obviously.

Elise Hu (08:35):

Duh.

Dori Shafrir (08:37):

And she premiered her new solo comedy show, Diversity Shredder at Netflix Is a Joke Fest last May. Before we get to Charlene, just a reminder that you can visit our website, forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mention on the show. We are on Instagram at Forever35podcast. Again, our Patreon is at patreon.com/forever35. At the free tier, we have our newsletter, and then we also have ad free episodes at the $10 tier. We have our weekly casual chats. We have our pop culture episodes. You also get a thank you, a special thank you in one episode a month if you support us at the $10 tier, but at the $5 tier, you get the casual chats, you get the pop culture episodes, you get a lot of stuff. So check that out at patreon.com/treper35. Our favorite products are at shopmy.us/fre35. And if you want to reach us with any questions or comments or concerns for the mini episodes, please do that at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcast@gmail.com.

(09:43)
And here's Charlene.

Elise Hu (09:48):

Charlene Kayeay. We are so excited to have you on the show. Welcome, welcome.

Charlene Kaye (09:53):

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Elise Hu (09:56):

We always start by asking our guests what they're doing for self-care. So what are you doing lately that you would consider taking care of yourself?

Charlene Kaye (10:04):

I really love that question. Something that I've been doing every night is watching ASMR. And it's specifically somebody who talks to me in a really calm voice and everyone has different ASMR triggers, but mine is people moving their hands like this and just sort of like, oh my gosh, I'm getting calm just watching myself do it. But it really resets my nervous system to have someone just speak to me. It tricks my brain into having some sort of maternal or caring friend that's like, everything's going to be okay. Are you guys hip to ASMR?

Elise Hu (10:44):

No, my 10-year-old daughter is so into ASMR. She will watch it in the morning and she'll watch it at night. Oh

Charlene Kaye (10:50):

My God, what's

Elise Hu (10:50):

Her thing? And she doesn't like to be disturbed when she's watching her ASMR because she's like, hang on, I'm soothing with my ASMR.

Charlene Kaye (10:59):

Hang on. I'm self-soothing says your 10 year old.

Elise Hu (11:01):

She's so funny.

Charlene Kaye (11:03):

If I had coping mechanisms like that when I was 10. She

Elise Hu (11:06):

Is so funny. She doesn't want to be disturbed, but she likes the slime ASMR. So just slime and somebody with their hands negotiating slime. And there's lots of sounds that come out of it. I don't understand this at all. I'm not into the slime. Just to say this is not something that I'm into. I'm not into ASMR. It sort of creeps me out actually. Not yet.

Charlene Kaye (11:26):

I think you got to find your thing.

Elise Hu (11:27):

I was going to say, I'm totally open to everybody's various self-care practices.

Dori Shafrir (11:33):

Every cooking video or influencer video now has the people with their fingernails going on the things. That kind of drives me crazy. Sometimes I'm like, "You're not even making an ASMR video. You're just clicking your fingertips on this jar of jam." I don't know.

Charlene Kaye (11:53):

But the thing is people get, my sister likes the fingernails because we were going through this. They have videos that are specifically meant to let you know what your trigger is. They do a whole bunch of different stuff. They crinkle, they crinkle paper, they'll whisper, they'll type on a keyboard, they'll tap. My sister was like, "I'm just not into this. I'm not ... No, I don't think I ... What is that? " And it was somebody that had acrylic fingernails that was tapping on a big jar. So her thing is bassy tapping. Oh,

Elise Hu (12:23):

So it's almost like allergy testing where they prick your back to find out what you're allergic to. But for ASMR, you can watch all of the various ASMR triggers to see what you find soothing. I

Charlene Kaye (12:33):

Know way too much. Yeah. Yeah.

Elise Hu (12:35):

Oh, I like that.

Charlene Kaye (12:37):

And mine is makeup. I love when people are pretending to do my makeup. And it's when people are like, my specific search is like caring friend tells you it's going to be okay. Yeah. So that's my self-care.

Dori Shafrir (12:53):

So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.

Elise Hu (13:04):

Tell our listeners how you would describe who you are and what you're all about.

Charlene Kaye (13:09):

Yeah. I'm Charlene. I am a musician and comedian. I live in New York. I was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. I have lived all over the world. I lived in Arizona, Hong Kong, Singapore. I went to University of Michigan and then I came to New York immediately after I graduated college to make it and be a rockstar. And so I waited tables for a few years, taught a bunch of music lessons and toured with a billion different bands and did my own music during that time. I played music under both Charlene Kayeay, which is my given name and K, which is my last name. And now I'm onto, I just started a new band, which is called King Maymey. I have a couple different comedy shows. One of them is about my mom and it's called Tiger Daughter or How I Brought Migrant Mother Ultimate Shame.

(14:03)
The newest show that I just wrote that I'm taking to Edinburgh Fringe Festival this year is called Diversity Shredder, and it's about my experience being an Asian woman in the music industry. And I recently gave a TED Talk, thank you to the one and only Elise Hugh for hoping- I'm your

Elise Hu (14:20):

Hype woman always.

Charlene Kaye (14:22):

And everyone who's listening should know that I found Elise because I am obsessed with K-pop and Korean beauty culture in general. And I found Elisa's brilliant book called Flawless and I read it and I just loved it so much. I tore through it in like two days and then I DMed her and I was like, "I just loved your book. I wanted to say that you're so brilliant and wonderful." And she was like, "Oh my God, I'm actually a fan of yours." And we know who each other is. And it was such a beautiful, mutual fangirl moment. And I just respect you so much. And your brain is a beautiful thing and it's just an honor to be in your orbit. Oh,

Elise Hu (15:02):

Well, it's truly, truly mutual admiration society because just before we were recording even, I was telling Dora, I was like, "You know Charlene dances too." So on top of everything else, your talent knows no bounds, is what I said. And the way I had originally found you, and this is probably why many of your Instagram followers have discovered you, is your musical comedy and how you take the tropes of how certain artists sing or write their songs. Your Taylor Swift one is probably the biggest one, right?

Charlene Kaye (15:39):

Yeah, that one is the biggest. And so I started to do others after that. And it's just been a really fun project to unpack and break down all the tropes of every different artist because the way that I hear music is very rarely without analysis. And so it's fun that other musicians and people who don't know music theory can be in on the joke and understand why they like certain things.

Dori Shafrir (16:02):

Can I ask how you sort of discovered that this was something you were into and good at? What was the origin of all of this?

Charlene Kaye (16:12):

Well, I've been a musician for my whole life. My mom put me in classical music lessons from when I was like five or six, Asian

Dori Shafrir (16:19):

Writer classic. And Tiger Mom. Yep. Okay.

Charlene Kaye (16:21):

Exactly. Exactly. And I just took really quickly to music and understanding the patterns of it. I started playing piano and then when I was in seventh grade, my sister actually picked up guitar first and our house shared a wall in our bedrooms. And so I would always overhear her playing guitar and I

Dori Shafrir (16:43):

Got

Charlene Kaye (16:44):

A little jealous. And I was like, "Oh, that sounds really cool. I want to do that. " So I would steal her guitar and I would play guitar and then she'd get mad at me because I was like stealing her thing.

Elise Hu (16:53):

We've been talking about that on this show too. Because my daughters who are sisters are like, "Don't steal my sport. That's my activity."

Charlene Kaye (17:01):

I know, I know, I know. And my sister is incredibly talented musically. We bond because we understand and appreciate music in this same sort of humorous analytical way. And we both love K-pop too, but my sister was really good and she was like learning how to play Jimmy Hendrix. And there was no YouTube back then, so it was just tabs. So if you don't know what guitar tabs are, it's like these notated letters and numbers and like dashes and stuff that people can put online. And it corresponds to each of the six guitar strings. And that's how I learned how to play guitar. I would go on ultimateguitar.com and learn every John Mayer song.

(17:42)
And then she was learning a lot of like classic rock like Led Zeppelin and Jimmy Hendrix. And when I heard her play The Win Cries Mary, I was like, "I got to learn that. " So I learned her thing and she got really mad at me. And then she was like, "Well, if you're going to do guitar, I'm going to do film and I'm going to start making like really great indie films as like a 14 year old." And she's a filmmaker now. She's a screenwriter and a director. And I'm really glad that I stole her thing because it enabled her to find her thing. And now guitar is my thing, so we all win. I was never very good at sight reading, which is why me and classical piano never had any longevity, but I loved guitar because I've always loved pop music and punk music and rock music.

(18:30)
And it was really easy for me to learn something by ear, which is probably why I understand music in the way that I do. I can pick up certain progressions and like repetitions very easily, which is why I'm like, "Oh, Taylor Swift always does these four chords." Or like, Ed Sheeran always uses a loop pedal and he either sings about his wife or he's really mad about his label. And because I've been a side man in addition to my own music, I've learned other people's music and I've had to analyze other people's music and maybe it's just me. Maybe it's the way that my brain has always worked and gravitated towards like the mechanics of what makes something interesting or funny. And especially when I got into comedy, I am so interested now in what makes something funny. And there are a million different ways to make surprise happen.

(19:18)
And largely when people laugh, it's because they're not expecting the turn in a joke or in a song or in a script or something. So yeah, I just love it. I love learning. I love deconstructing things that make me feel something. And I think it's because of this unique ability and curiosity that other people have gravitated towards my stuff because they also have the same curiosity, but maybe they're not as able to articulate it.

Elise Hu (19:49):

I love that. Since you have deconstructed some of the most popular pop artists of our time, what is it about, for example, a Taylor Swift bridge, right? She's known for her big bridges and then sometimes they're better or more memorable than the song itself. What is it about that or what is it she's doing you think that's happening there?

Charlene Kaye (20:12):

I love a good bridge and because I am a child of the 90s and early 2000s, I come from an era where there was a course, there was a verse, a course, a verse of course, a bridge, and then the last course. And in this day and age with pop music, it can repeat over and over again. There can be one chord and it doesn't make it any better or worse of a song, but it was very particular to that time. And Taylor Sift was part of that because she's been around for so long. And I think that a bridge is a great opportunity to break away from the traditional structure of the song and bring us into a heightened emotional place and it should reinforce what the course has been saying the whole time. And like if we're treating the course as the thesis ... I heard someone once say, "The verses are for you, the courses are for everybody else." So if you resonate with the course, it's the most general part that you repeat and that gets sticky in your head, but the verses are the specific personal anecdotes and you could probably replace the verses with your own version of what you relate to in the course.

(21:21)
But I think about a songwriter like Max Martin and all that pop, I imbibed in the 90s, like all the boy band stuff, like the Britney Spears and Sync and Backstreet Boys stuff,

Dori Shafrir (21:36):

There's

Charlene Kaye (21:36):

Always an amazing bridge or it could be called like a C section if the Versain course is like an A section and a B section. And the thing about Taylor Swift's bridges is that they heighten the song almost 100% of the time. They're like big and emotional and yearning and they have that escapist quality that like breaks it open and makes you just want to run through a field. It like cracks that last level of why do I care about this? So that's why I think she's a brilliant writer and that's what I think so many people enjoy about her songwriting.

Elise Hu (22:12):

Thank you for letting us geek out for a second there.

Charlene Kaye (22:14):

Yeah.

Elise Hu (22:15):

I don't think we've ever talked about songwriting, so I think it's interesting.

Charlene Kaye (22:20):

I love that. Yeah. It's so interesting. I mean, I love geeking out about this stuff and yeah, I always love talking to other creatives because you guys have insight on things in your fields that I know nothing about that I'm sure I'd find fascinating. Can I tell you something that just happened to me that I'm processing?

Elise Hu (22:38):

Yes. We are here to process with you.

Charlene Kaye (22:40):

Okay. Okay. So Chapel Roan did comment on my breakdown of hers and she was

Elise Hu (22:46):

Like-

Charlene Kaye (22:47):

She did? Yeah. And she sent me, she wrote a comment on the post that said, "Exactly, you get it. " And I had like multiple sparkly heart emojis and I was like, "Oh, this is so cool." Ed Sheeran commented and he was like, "Pretty much this is the formula."

Elise Hu (23:03):

Oh my God. I didn't know that.

Charlene Kaye (23:05):

I just love when artists can see that it's out of love, but the most recent video that I did was Machine Gun Kelly. Do you know who he is?

Elise Hu (23:15):

Great guitarist.

Charlene Kaye (23:17):

Yeah. He did a video of this guitar solo from his most recent concert where they're pyrotechnics shooting out of his guitar and the guitar solo that he did was so botched and I don't think it was obviously not intentional, but it became this viral moment where like people ... Do you know the viral Nick Jonas guitar solo at the CMAs? Oh my God, it's so amazing. He like goes up there and he's like, it's like Nick Jonas, everybody. Carrie Underwood brings him out and then he just plays completely in the wrong key and it's like on national television and

Elise Hu (23:53):

I

Charlene Kaye (23:53):

Felt so bad for him, but it's so funny. And as someone who loves music and also loves Cringe, I laugh so hard at that shit. I

Elise Hu (24:02):

Mean, I still think back to the Ashley Simpson getting gone. That's

Charlene Kaye (24:07):

Exactly

Elise Hu (24:07):

It. That feeling of like, oh.

Charlene Kaye (24:09):

That's

Elise Hu (24:09):

Exactly

Charlene Kaye (24:09):

It. Yeah. And you feel so bad for them, but also it's like incredible. It's like, what are the steps that could have prevented that from happening? But anyway-

Elise Hu (24:19):

So Machine Gun Kelly had one?

Charlene Kaye (24:21):

So he had one and I just did a video yesterday where I played the wrong solo note for note. I recreated it in all of its cringe glory and I'm kind of reacting like, whoa, didn't expect that. No. And he messaged me this morning and he said, "Why are you using your platform to hate on me? " And this was one of the hardest mental health days of my life. And I've been touring for two years or something and played hundreds of shows and make fun of me if I'm being a dick. He said, "You seem mature enough to not do this. " And I was like, "Oh my God, I'm so sorry." But I don't think I was being mean. I just, that is my sense of humor. And I do a lot of videos like that. But I was also like, if you've seen my stuff, you know that I'm not mature enough to rise above this moment.

(25:15)
But yeah, it's interesting. I was also like, "Man, this guy has nine million followers and I'm really making a- "

Elise Hu (25:22):

You got under his skin. Yeah, but he's sensitive, clearly, but I understand what you're saying that there is ... I think there is something to delighting and celebrating when we fuck up. It's like there's something about our mistakes that we should actually celebrate because it makes us human and is there a way to hold up another cringe moment, like another person's mistake or error or whatever it is in a way that isn't punching down? And I think if you're machine gun Kelly, you have arrived at a level of fame and notoriety where that's going to happen sometimes. People are going to ding you sometimes, especially if you have a really high profile screw up. So I don't know. What did you say to him?

Charlene Kaye (26:08):

I haven't responded yet because I got it right before I copped on this call, but my first thought is like, do you remember the Hillary Duff dance that people were making fun of? No.

(26:19)
Okay. She did this, it's called With Love. And it was like in the early 2000s when she was in her heyday and she does this dance on many daytime television shows and like Dick Clark's Rock and New Year's Eve. And it's the most bizarre dance. It looks like a robot's doing it if it had like no sense of timing or whatever. And people were doing it on the internet, not as I used to make fun of her, but just because it was like a bizarre time capsule of that moment in pop culture. And she just went on tour and she did the dance

Elise Hu (26:55):

And people

Charlene Kaye (26:56):

Lost their minds because they were like, yes, because like finally it's like she's in on the joke with them. So I really feel like-

Elise Hu (27:03):

This was an opportunity. ... Machine Gun Kelly. If you are

Charlene Kaye (27:06):

Listening, get on your social media and cover your own solo. It would be fucking hilarious. And people could see that you don't take yourself too seriously and you're not ... I mean, I don't claim to understand what his mental health situation is. And I know not everybody can do that, but I want that for him. I want him to be able to see when things go wrong and be like, "That was funny." I'm not going to be a flawless performer all the time and not everyone can be Beyonce.

Elise Hu (27:36):

It makes him more likable too if he were to do that. But clearly, especially given what he said about his mental health, he might be going through some stuff like we don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that story with us.

Charlene Kaye (27:49):

No problem.

Elise Hu (27:50):

Okay. Let's take a break and we will be right back. Just going back to how you found guitar, we know you found guitar from your sister. I'm curious because you are the Johnny Greenwood in Labeya Head, you're all woman radiohead tribute band.

Dori Shafrir (28:13):

Yes.

Elise Hu (28:13):

Did you discover Radiohead from a Slacker boyfriend in college?

Charlene Kaye (28:18):

I did. I did.

Elise Hu (28:21):

Like so many of us.

Charlene Kaye (28:22):

Yeah, I remember. Truly, truly. I remember vividly, it was a guy that was in the jazz guitar program- Of course he was. ... at Michigan, and he actually taught me a lot about guitar and really informed my music taste like so many of us women who have dated musicians. And I remember, it was before the first time we hooked up and he was playing me a radiohead song and he was just like, "Listen to the way that the drums are filtered and looped here. Oh my God, it's amazing." And I was like, "Yeah, that is amazing." And we didn't connect and in that way. But yeah, it's just an interesting phenomenon that happens to a bunch of women and feels like a way to reclaim loving that music for myself.

Elise Hu (29:11):

Yeah. And listeners, if you have an opportunity to see Labyah head live, it is truly one of my favorite live shows that I have seen. Y'all played like this kind of sticky floored club in Hollywood last year and just it blew me away. Tell folks a little bit about the other folks in the band too.

Charlene Kaye (29:36):

Totally. Because they're very talented. So my co-founder, Lena Hall, is just a force of nature and she is my favorite voice. She's my favorite female vocalist.

Elise Hu (29:48):

Truly.

Charlene Kaye (29:49):

I can't get enough of her performance style. She has won a Tony for her role in Headwig and the Angry Inch. She's on Apple TV's Your Friends and Neighbors. She does it all and And it's pretty incredible. She's

Elise Hu (30:01):

John Ham's sister on that show, right?

Charlene Kaye (30:03):

Yeah. Yeah.

Elise Hu (30:05):

I wonder what that must be like.

Charlene Kaye (30:07):

Yeah. I mean, she says it's a great working relationship and she's so great in that. But yeah, it's been incredibly empowering to be amongst these women. And I've never played in a band with two other female guitarists.

(30:24)
It's a crazy feeling to have three different guitar parts happening at the same time. And it just is very healing to my inner child because I never had any girl friends who could play guitar back then. And even in college, it was all the dudes that I dated. My band was all dudes. It was really recently that I was like, I want to play with as many women as possible, not just in my funny cover bands, but with my own music. And it just feels different. It feels like a real sisterhood that I never had when I was growing up.

Dori Shafrir (30:53):

Oh, I love that. Can we talk a little bit about any advice you have for people who might be in more of a traditional job, but want to be more creative or explore that side of them?

Charlene Kaye (31:12):

Absolutely. I have so many friends that it is such a privilege and a luxury to be a creative person. And I have been working towards this for my entire life where I don't have to have any supplemental jobs besides performing. And I've done every single kind of job from being a camp counselor where I wrangled horses and llamas and cleaned up their animal pens to waiting tables to having desk jobs and temp jobs. I got a graphic design degree when I was 33, so it was like in 2019, because I really didn't know if I was going to continue doing music. And so I thought I was going to work at some agency and be a graphic designer. And it takes a lot of persistence and dedication and that ultimately wins out over everything. So if anyone's starting something and is like, "Oh, but I've never written a screenplay or written a song or something," you just have to allow yourself to be bad for a while and you have to let time do its good work and just put in the little bits every single day.

(32:14)
And if you just make one little tap every single day, like pretty soon, that wall is going to crumble between you and whatever you're looking for. And it's easier said than done, but try not to measure your worth based on the validation of other people around you or society. I'm like, "It's so easy. Don't care about what society thinks about you. " Obviously I care a lot, but it's really hard to comparing yourself to what other people are doing. It's a really easy way to quickly lose faith and lose sight in your own unique voice. And paradoxically, that's also kind of the only way that you discover your voice by mimicking other people and by exploring techniques of other people that you really like.

Elise Hu (33:05):

Sure.That's

Charlene Kaye (33:06):

How I got started, just by covering a bunch of people. And I think that musical comedy came really quickly to me because I had such a background in music and I've always loved Flyted the Concords and Tenacious D. But standup, like pure standup is something I am fascinated by and I'm not very good at. And so the next frontier for me is I'm always watching other people's standup sets and I'm going to standup shows all the time. And I love storytelling. And I love when I can see a performer that like just surprises me and has ... There is a technique about it that I'm learning, like similar to how I've been learning. I'm familiar with how the mechanics of music works. I'm learning how the mechanics of comedy works now in this really new and exciting way. And it's just great. Being an artist means that the learning never stops.

(33:54)
And if you're continually curious and you're continually diving into this or that, that's why I was like, "Oh, I really want to know what it's like to dance." I never had any dancing background when I was

Elise Hu (34:05):

Younger.

Charlene Kaye (34:05):

Wow. I started dancing when I was 30. I'm going to be 40 this year.

Elise Hu (34:09):

Oh my gosh.

Charlene Kaye (34:10):

Yeah. And I just went to a couple classes and I was really bad. And it's hard to not think of things as good or bad, but I was having so much fun. And I was with a bunch of people who were kind of nervous for the first time. But the thing about going to dance class is that nobody gives a shit about anyone but themselves. Everyone's watching themselves in the mirror like a hawk, trying to just keep up and figure out if they're doing the moves right. And to be honest, that's how I got into K-pop because there's a huge community of dancers that just dance at home for fun and they have no desire of ever becoming a professional dancer. But anytime a group drops something new that has choreography that everyone's doing, then videos will pop up the next day of people being like, "Oh, here's how you do the BTS dance or the Laserra film dance or the stray kids dance." And that's how I learned so many of the dances that I did.

(35:04)
And it was over COVID, so no one was gathering in person anyway. So just try stuff. And if you mess up, then fuck it.

Elise Hu (35:12):

That's great advice.

Charlene Kaye (35:13):

That's for you, Machine Young Kelly.

Elise Hu (35:18):

Charlene, how do folks find you?

Charlene Kaye (35:21):

I am on Instagram, Instagram/CharleneK. You can find me on ... I do have a website, but if you want to follow me on social media, I'm pretty active on there. So I'd say that's probably the best place.

Elise Hu (35:36):

Okay. Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on the show. And being so open and candid with your stories and also how they intersect with famous peoples. Another famous

Dori Shafrir (35:49):

People. One other quick question before we let you go. Can you tell me about your necklace?

Charlene Kaye (35:55):

Oh, this is an ad, like a Google ad that I got. And I went, "Yes, I do want that. " And I purchased it immediately.

Elise Hu (36:02):

Describe it for folks who are listening.

Charlene Kaye (36:04):

So this necklace I'm wearing has a little watch in the middle as a pendant. It's completely impractical. I could never look at it.

Elise Hu (36:13):

Can you see the time from it? I cannot

Charlene Kaye (36:15):

See the time.

Dori Shafrir (36:16):

Okay. I love it.

Charlene Kaye (36:16):

But you can see it. So you can tell me what time it is.

Elise Hu (36:20):

Thank

Charlene Kaye (36:20):

You. Thank you

Elise Hu (36:21):

So much.

Charlene Kaye (36:21):

This jewelry is designed to encourage connection and communication with folks.

Elise Hu (36:27):

I love that. All right, Charlene. Thanks so much. Thank

Charlene Kaye (36:31):

You so much for having me.

Dori Shafrir (36:35):

Well, Charlene was great as promised. By you. Charlene.

Elise Hu (36:41):

Yeah.

Dori Shafrir (36:43):

So that was really- It's hard

Elise Hu (36:44):

To get her because she's always touring and doing stuff. So we're so glad, Charlene, that you were able to make time.

Dori Shafrir (36:51):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's go into intentions. Elise, how did getting out into the sunshine go?

Elise Hu (37:01):

Yeah, I'm still trying. And in fact, because I didn't get to fly to New York, I've done really well on my intention because I've been able to just very intentionally go outside and spend time outdoors. And then I'm choosing the kid who has the outdoor sport to drive around because on the weekends we can either do volleyball or soccer or volleyball or dance or soccer. And only one of those is consistently outdoors. And so I'm spending time with Luna on the weekends and that's getting me some additional sunshine. So doing well on that. How about you? How was your intention of continuing your cleanout momentum?

Dori Shafrir (37:38):

It's going pretty well. I mean, I didn't do another full day of cleaning and organizing like I did on the initial day, but it's going decently. And then this week, my intention is to get through this play date that I'm a little stressed about, but we'll see. We'll see how it goes. What's your intention this week?

Elise Hu (38:04):

I can't believe it's been another week. I was having lunch with my friend and longtime business partner, Rachel, yesterday, and she said that her whole mantra for the year was just no rushing. She just did not want to rush to anything. I remember having Caroline Paul on, I guess it was last year or maybe the year before, and she talked about how she's like, "I take my time. I take my time getting everywhere." And some people get annoyed by that, but I just don't want to rush or feel compelled to rush by society in this age we live in. And so I think my intention is just going to be to not rush anywhere. We're going to try it for a week.

Dori Shafrir (38:47):

I love that. All right. Well, this is the episode where we thank our Patreon supporters. Elise, I believe I read the names last month. So do you want to do the honors?

Elise Hu (38:58):

Yes. Thank you to our Patreon members at the spa and suite level. Ariel C, Laura Cicone, Sarah Liska, Felicia, Justice Spiro, Jasmine De Jesus, Christie, Caitlin H, Katie, Ashley Taylor, Theresa Anderson, Nicole Gass, Maya, Barbara C., Amy, Amy Schnitzer, Megan, Shelly Lee, Sarah Buzi, Alison Cohen, Melissa McClain, Jackie Leventhal, Fran, Kelsey Wolf Denae, Laura Eddie, Jenell Appde, Valerie Bruno, Julie Daniel, E. Jackson, Katherine Burke, Amy Maseko, Liz Rain, JDK, Hannah M, Julia P, Mattie O'Day, Marissa, Sarah Bell, Maria, Diana, S-T, Coco Bean, Laura Haddon, Josie H, Nikki Bosser, Juliana Duff, Chelsea Torres, Tiffany G., Emily McIntyre, Stephanie Germana, Olivia Fahey, Elizabeth A, Christine Bassis, Jessica Gale, Zulum and Lundy, Carolyn Rodriguez, Carrie Golds, and T. Catherine Ellingson, Kara Brugman, Sarah H, Sarah Egan, Jess Combin, Jennifer Olson, Jennifer H.S., Eliza Gibson, Jillian Bowman, Brianne Macy, Elizabeth Holland, Karen Perrelman, Katie Jordan, Sarah, M. Kate M, Josie Alquist, Tara Todd, Elizabeth Cleary, and Monica.

(40:14)
Thank y'all so much.

Dori Shafrir (40:15):

Thank you. And just a reminder that Forever35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir, and Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Sanee Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast. Thanks everyone. Bye. Bye.

 
Forever 35 Podcast
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