Episode 387: Romance On The Brain with Maurene Goo
Repeat guest Maurene Goo is back on the show to share her secret to a well-styled closet, her transition from writing YA to adult romance with her new release One and Only, and the wild ride it’s been supporting her husband Chris Applehans (director of KPop Demon Hunters) through awards season.
Photo Credit: Sela Shiloni
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Transcript
The transcript for this episode is AI generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:17):
And I'm Elise Hu and we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Doree Shafrir (00:21):
And today we have a very special guest. A guest who has been on Forever35 before, actually several times.
Elise Hu (00:30):
Yes, but not in a minute.
Doree Shafrir (00:32):
Not in a minute. A good friend of mine, an amazing author and wonderful person, Maurene Goo.
Elise Hu (00:40):
We took a bit of a deep dive into her experience with a stylist, which I found very aspirational.
Doree Shafrir (00:49):
I found it fascinating.
Elise Hu (00:50):
I want somebody to come to my house and reorganize my closet and then also help me edit. The editing is what I find- The editing, yes. Really difficult.
(01:01)
The only clothes that I got rid of and mass were the clothes that I wore that were not maternity clothes, but just clothes that I wore while pregnant because I associated them with pregnancy. And I was like, even though this is a really cute top or even though this is a really cute summer dress that you could wear while you were pregnant or not pregnant, I was still like, I'm not going to wear this again. I don't want to wear it again. This is of an age that I don't want to be a part of anymore.
(01:31)
So those are the only clothes that I was just like, goodbye when we moved back to America. And I do think moving is always a great time to edit. I feel like we always get rid of a lot of stuff when we move. But I don't think I'm going to move for a while after my last one in 2022. We moved into this house and now I can't even really leave my house because if we left it, where would I live? I wouldn't be able to afford ... If I left my house, I don't think I would be able to afford a new place that's like even on par with where I would be leaving. So I'm going to be here for a minute, which means no good chance to edit unless we're really deliberate about it. But you did, right? Didn't you start? I feel like on this show, on this very show, we talked about how you organized a bunch of your things to give away.
Doree Shafrir (02:19):
I did, but it feels like it's just a constant ongoing process. What I will say that has been kind of good in my age of austerity is that I am not acquiring that many new things.
Elise Hu (02:35):
Yeah. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (02:37):
So I think in the past it was always like, "Oh, I got rid of all this stuff. Oh, but look, I just bought a bunch of shit that I probably won't end up wearing that much." Whereas now I'm just like, "Well, guess I'm going to wear this sweater again." But also in a way, that should make it easier for me to really edit down because I'm wearing the same things every day.
Elise Hu (03:06):
Now you're living a capsule wardrobe
Doree Shafrir (03:08):
Life. I'm really living a capsule wardrobe life. So the things that I don't wear are truly things I can just get rid of because I don't have that many clothes to choose from. And if I'm not wearing certain clothes, then I really don't want to wear those clothes. You know what I mean?
Elise Hu (03:22):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (03:23):
Yeah. So I am like, okay- Your
Elise Hu (03:26):
Decisions are made for you.
Doree Shafrir (03:28):
With your own behavior. Out of necessity. I was doing Newly for a while and I did like Newly. It just felt like I didn't need it for my lifestyle. It was fun, but I don't work in an office. I don't go out that much. There's not enough events, like weddings. Yeah. There aren' enough events in cocktail
Elise Hu (03:50):
Parties. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (03:52):
Although I will say, you do need those certain- Cute dresses for
Elise Hu (03:57):
Whatever.
Doree Shafrir (03:58):
Yeah, exactly. And I feel like I don't have those anymore. On the rare occasions that I do need to sort of dress up and look nice, I'm like, oh, I don't love anything that I have, but it feels like such an investment to buy those clothes that you're not going to wear that much. Do you know what I mean? Right.
Elise Hu (04:19):
Agree. I also did newly and then I also canceled it after a year or two. It was really useful when I was touring a lot and speaking a lot for my
Doree Shafrir (04:28):
Book. Yes, totally.
Elise Hu (04:29):
Because there was a new outfit or a new city and people were going to take pictures. I mean, now that I'm pretty much staying put and then I don't have to be in front of a bunch of people that often, I didn't think it was really, the juice was worth the squeeze anymore. I mean, because these subscriptions really add up. It wasn't just that. It wasn't just that I didn't have enough use. I also don't really like mailing stuff back and packing things. Even that was a little bit too much for me because I'm trying to live like my days in a pretty simple way without having to run to the UPS store or schedule a pickup for it. It's just like there's so many things like that that are in the course of my work or in the course of just parenting that I was sort of like, "I can't do this for clothes too.
(05:17)
I can't do my clothes tasks also."
Doree Shafrir (05:20):
I mean, I get that. But yeah, it was really fun to talk to Maureen about having a stylist both for her own closet and then also for like going to some events that she's had to go to. And that is just a little teaser. You'll have to listen to our interview. We will say no more. We will say no more. Well, before we get to Maurene, let me just read her official bio. She is the author of several acclaimed and award-winning books for young adults, including I Believe in a Thing Called Love and Throwback, which was a Reese Book Club YA Winter Pick. Several of her young adult novels are in development for film and her books have been translated into 12 languages. She also writes for screen, games, and comics. She writes and lives in Los Angeles with her husband, son, and two cats, and one and only, which is her new book, which is out tomorrow.
(06:18)
Tomorrow. Tomorrow is Pub Day. Yes. Tomorrow's Pub Day and it's her adult debut.
Elise Hu (06:23):
Congratulations, Maureen.
Doree Shafrir (06:25):
Yes. And it is a delightful read. Also, a reminder that everything we mention on the show is on our website, forever35podcast.com. We are also on Instagram at Forever35podcast. Our Patreon is at patreon.com/Forever35. You can shop our favorite products at shopmy.us/forever35. You can call or text us at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcast@gmail.com. And our newsletter is on our Patreon. So again, patreon.com/forever35, you can become a free member and get our newsletter, or you can become a paid member and get all of our bonus content, including our casual chats, our monthly pop culture recommendation episodes, the Forever35 questionnaire, ad free episodes. The bonuses just keep coming. And we are going to take a short break and we'll be right back with Maurene. We'll be right back. Maurene, welcome back to Forever35. So nice to see you.
Maurene Goo (07:34):
Great to be here.
Doree Shafrir (07:36):
For those of you who don't know, Maurene has been on this show five times. I don't know. You've been on the show a lot.
Maurene Goo (07:42):
I know. I think it's five now.
Doree Shafrir (07:45):
Yeah.
Maurene Goo (07:45):
Oh boy. What an honor.
Elise Hu (07:48):
Yeah,
Maurene Goo (07:48):
It is an honor.
Elise Hu (07:50):
This is the first time though, since I've been co-hosting that Maurene has come on. So it's good to see you, Maurene, and have this conversation.
Maurene Goo (07:57):
Yes.
Elise Hu (07:58):
Do you remember the last time that you came on and what y'all were talking about?
Maurene Goo (08:01):
I feel like it was a couple years ago. Was it more? Yeah, Throwback came out in 2023. So it might've been- I think that's when it was. Yeah, it was definitely ... Oh boy, that's been three years already. Gosh. That's crazy.
Doree Shafrir (08:17):
You also filled in when I was on maternity leave. I did. Which was a long time ago now. Yes, I know. It's nuts.
Elise Hu (08:28):
For those of us who are sort of just joining midstream, how do you two know each other? What's the connection? How'd you guys meet?
Maurene Goo (08:37):
Well, honestly, because of the podcast, right, Dori? Yeah, you knew Kate. I think Kate and I just knew each other online or something. There used to be a time when Twitter was fun and you would meet like- minded people who did creative stuff there. So Kate and I knew each other and I think I became a fan of the podcast with that mild association with Kate. We just started kind of hanging out a little more in real life too. Oh, fantastic. Yeah. We did a writing group for a while.That was fun too.
Doree Shafrir (09:08):
That was really fun.
Maurene Goo (09:08):
Okay.
Doree Shafrir (09:09):
Fantastic. Well, Maurene, as you know, we always start by asking our guests about a self-care practice that they have. I know you've answered this question before, but it's 2026. The world is falling apart. What is your self-care practice? In 2026. Yeah.
Maurene Goo (09:27):
2026. I have added a new thing to my self-care practice that is very frivolous. I've really been sucked into the algorithm for face massages. I don't know if you guys have this. I think because I showed some mild interest a long time ago, now literally it's like 80% of my algorithm. The whole concept is, oh, lymphatic drainage and also as we get older, all these things happen to our face. The reason why we age is because our muscles are getting stagnant.
Maurene Goo (10:07):
Who
Maurene Goo (10:08):
Knows? I kind of believe the science and I kind of don't, but it's one of those things where I just feel like I don't care. I'm going to pretend this works. And it gives me some semblance of control over my life. And I obviously want to embrace aging, but the reality is I am not embracing aging right now.
Elise Hu (10:29):
You can have ambivalence about it. Yeah.
Maurene Goo (10:31):
Yes. I'm like, "You know what? If I can help gravity slow down, then I'm going to do it. " But it's like a nice ritual. So I do a 10 minute one every day and it's not just your face, but it's like working with your chest and you're right here and it's like your neck and your scalp, a ton of scalp work. And I actually just took a extra step into commitment by signing up for this woman's course and I paid money for it and it's going to start in February. So we'll see.
Elise Hu (10:59):
But it's satisfying to give yourself a facial massage is what you're saying.
Maurene Goo (11:03):
It feels good.
Elise Hu (11:04):
Yeah. I mean, I'd love to get one when I'm getting facials, but you're saying you have learned to practice, do facial massage on yourself.
Maurene Goo (11:13):
Yeah. And it's not like a soothing, relaxing massage. It is like work. It's like fascia work. They're always telling us we need to open up our chest. We need to get rid of this hump on our back. If we massage all this, then apparently your nasal- Passages.
Doree Shafrir (11:33):
Nasolabial.
Maurene Goo (11:35):
Yeah. Labial, that's such a fin word, but you don't need a facelift, you just need to massage your scalp. So I'm diluting myself right now as everything feels out of control in the world. I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to massage my face 10 minutes a day and this is doing something.
Elise Hu (11:54):
Also, it's really satisfying. Touch is very satisfying. So however you're practicing it, I think that it can be beneficial.
Maurene Goo (12:03):
I think I have learned that I need a lot of touch actually. That's something I've recently ... Yeah, something I've learned in the past couple years.
Elise Hu (12:11):
Good.
Maurene Goo (12:11):
I love brushing my hair. I love getting a massage. I love just squeezing the life out of my son.
Elise Hu (12:19):
Okay. Well, that's a good reminder. We are having you on this time because you have another new book out, but it's your adult debut.
Maurene Goo (12:30):
Yes.
Elise Hu (12:31):
It's called One and Only. Tell us a little bit about it.
Maurene Goo (12:33):
Yeah. One and Only is about a woman named Cassia Park who comes from a long line of matchmakers and their matchmaking agency, their family agency has a 100% guarantee of finding the one because secretly they all have this gift of being able to see into people's past lives and they find the soulmate through this past life peak. And Cass has known her soulmate's name for a decade, but she's about to trim 40 and she still hasn't found him. So she decides to have a fling with this 28-year-old cutie and then discovers that his boss is the guy she's been looking for. So it's a little bit of a love triangle. It's a little bit of fate versus free will, a lot of family stuff, matriarchal, Korean family ladies, and it takes place in LA. So it's my little, yet another love letter I've written to LA.
Elise Hu (13:36):
Yeah. Yeah. The dedication is to the people of Los Angeles. I love it.
Maurene Goo (13:40):
It is. Yeah. Because I wrote it, I was working on it during the fires and everything that's been going on around here.
Doree Shafrir (13:49):
I'm curious, what made you want to write a novel for adults after so many great YA books? I
Maurene Goo (13:56):
Felt like it was time. Something in me was just like, "You know what? I think you are ready now." And the thing is, I don't think that writing adult books means I'm graduating. I don't see it that way at all. I still probably will write YA. I love it. I feel very at home in that age range, but I think that I had done five YA novels and I felt like I was reading so much romance, so much, I don't know for lack of a better word, like women's up market fiction. And that was just the majority of what I was reading since 2020. And I felt very inspired by reading all of these things, but also I can see for me what was missing as a reader.
(14:46)
I mean, I think there's a lot of freedom in YA, but I, as an adult, I'm like, wow, now I can finally delve into topics and also just really details like talking about interior design and how much wine these characters are drinking all the time. It was fun to kind of unleash these interests of mine in a way that I wasn't able to in YA. But yeah, I just felt like there was something in me that was saying, "Oh, let's just try this out. " And obviously there's been kind of a big movement with a lot of YA authors moving into the adult space the past few years. And I think the YA, right now, YA is such a ... It's always moving as far as what's trendy and what people are reading and what's big in YA. And I just kind of felt like a little disconnected from the audience when I started to write one and only.
(15:37)
And I'm like, "You know what? I think I'm just going to go to this really familiar space since I as a reader have been in it for so long." And I love writing romance. It was a way for me to really dig into a grownup romance.
Elise Hu (15:51):
What do you feel like was missing from what you were reading that you wanted to put in the pages of your book?
Maurene Goo (15:58):
I mean, this is a little tricky because I never want to claim no one's done it before because inevitably someone's done it and I'm not the first author to do anything. But as far as what I wanted to read was I wanted to read about 40 year old women that were single that were not harried divorced moms,
(16:19)
That were not spinsters, that were sad. I know so many women. I think maybe it's a millennial thing. My age group, I just feel like there's so many single women and they are very happy with their lives and the romance factor is like a bonus maybe. And not only that, but when you're 40 nowadays, you can still be like, "Maybe I'll still have a family." It's not like some expiration date has not expired. I think like me and my friends, I see it like, "Oh, maybe we're one of the first waves of women that still have these choices in their 40s." And I don't think many people thought that they would be getting pregnant in their 40s or even starting families or finding their true loves or whatever, new careers. And there's like this strong perimenopausal movement happening right now too where in fiction and literature, I'm like, "Wow, people are talking about this.
(17:18)
" And starting fresh in your 40s is not at all novel anymore. And so I really wanted to write a love story for a woman in her forties that felt like that got the treatment that women in their 20s have been
Maurene Goo (17:32):
Getting
Maurene Goo (17:32):
Forever. And I don't think that's wish fulfillment. I think that's very realistic actually.
Doree Shafrir (17:38):
It's funny you mentioned that because one of my questions was that I love that you have this protagonist who's a 40-year-old woman who is not a hot mess. I feel like that's deliberately what you were writing. I was like, okay, yes, she's not like a total disaster. She's far from it. She's the opposite. And also, I liked what you said about now that you're writing adult books, you get to kind of talk about things like wine and that you didn't get to talk about in YA because I also loved all of your descriptions of her outfits. She is like hot and her outfits are hot. So I'm wondering, what was your inspiration for her clothes and what are you into fashion-wise these days?
Maurene Goo (18:28):
Another form of self-care for me has been really going into clothes and fashion because, and Dori, we've talked about this and you guys have talked about this on the podcast for sure, like that period of having a kid and then coming out of COVID, having a young kid coming out of COVID, I think a lot of women felt this way and it felt like a shallow ... You're like, "What do I wear?" And it seemed shallow at the time or maybe on the surface, but I do think it was meaningful because I think a lot of us just didn't know how to navigate a new reality. And one of the things that I had always felt strongly about was like, I know my own fashion sets. I have very strong feelings about clothes. I love it, but I did feel very lost after having a kid.
(19:11)
I felt very unmoored and I needed something and I really focused on fashion because it felt very tangible, something that I can change, look at my closet, let's do this. Obviously it wasn't like I had an endless budget for it, but I try to be smart. And so I started following a lot of people on Substack, stylists, influencer types, and really went in deep on Fashion Substack. And then I found a community there that I really loved and I started to just take my own author newsletter, moved it to Substack and try to make it more organic to stuff, not just book stuff, but I always do talk about writing on books, but kind of like, why don't I expand what I talk about on here? And I talked to some of my friends like, "Would you guys be interested in content where I'm like talking about movies or TV shows plus clothes, plus parenting stuff, plus, I don't know, activism or whatever I feel like talking about.
(20:11)
" And everyone's like, "Yeah, we read that. " So that's what I've been doing and I've been holding myself to it weekly. And anyways, the fashion was really fun for me. Obviously, I am around Cassia's age, so I was like, "What would I wear?" And I just kind of amped it up a little bit with her because she's a little more aspirational than me. She never had a baby. She's like, "Yeah, I'm free. I can just wear white clothing all that time." And so I had so much fun with the clothes.
Doree Shafrir (20:44):
Okay. But I have to ask, you got to go to the Golden Globes this year.
Maurene Goo (20:49):
Well, I got to go to the after parties.
Doree Shafrir (20:51):
Okay.
Maurene Goo (20:52):
Not the ceremonies. You have to be
Doree Shafrir (20:54):
Dressed up for the
Maurene Goo (20:55):
After party. Dressed up.
Doree Shafrir (20:57):
Yeah.
Maurene Goo (20:58):
Yes. I got to channel some of that.
Doree Shafrir (21:01):
Yes. Yes. So tell us about that whole process, how you chose your dress, getting ready for the whole thing. I want the real behind the scenes.
Maurene Goo (21:14):
So a few months ago, I hired a stylist actually. And again, I decided to invest in this one little corner of my life because I do care about it. And I realized that decluttering and organizing and having vision and clarity with my wardrobe did actually help my mental health. And so I picked this one little thing and I was like, okay, I'm going to redo our closet and I'm going to do a rehaul because I think I'm just holding onto stuff. And I had been vigorously decluttering my closet forever and I just felt like I'm going to hire this stylish. She's going to come and look at my closet. It's going to be embarrassing, but she's also not going to find much to get rid of because I've well edited. Oh my God. So she's amazing. I found her on Fashion Substack. She's local to LA.
(22:06)
Her name is Laurel Patton. She is very fabulous and fancy and very cool. And she comes from the world of New York fashion. She used to work at magazines and all this stuff. And I was very anxious actually about having her come to my house. Oh my God. It's probably like such a teeny closet. She's like, no judgment. And I thought, okay, I'm going to pull out the stuff that I like and have her help me make outfits. She literally made me ... She touched and took out every single item of clothing in my closet and my drawers, including my pajamas, minus my underwear obviously, and socks. Wow. Although I'm sure she would have gone into my socks if we had time. And it was very fun and enlightening and also like very ... It took out ... After she left, because it was a whole day, nine to five.
(22:56)
Wow. I laid down on my sofa for two hours and we got rid of like, I would say almost 10 huge garbage bags full of clothes. Whoa. And I didn't know I had that much. 10 guys. I was like, "I need to figure out more storage for my closet." She's like, "You don't. You actually have enough space in your closet. You just have to edit down."
Elise Hu (23:20):
And what were the principles behind this edit? What are kind of the big questions that she asks that would be applicable to everybody?
Maurene Goo (23:29):
It wasn't really any principles. The process was this where we would go through and she just knew she was decisive. She knew that I trusted her. So she would pick out, okay, each item, black pants. I'm like, yes. If I say yes, she's like, "Okay, yes, no matter what. " And then if I paused, she would say, "Okay, try it on. " I would try it on in front of her and it would be like her face would be like, "Yes,
(23:59)
No." And even things like, "Oh, this light brown sweater from Everlane, which I have worn to death, of course I'm going to keep it. " But I put it on and I felt just like putting it on for her, I was like, "Oh, I don't love this water." And she's like, "No, you do not love it. You feel sad." And I was like, "Okay." And I'm like, "Yeah." And then she also was able to notice a pattern of the stuff I don't like anymore. She's like, "You went through a crunchy granola mom face." And I'm like, "I did." She's like, "Everything that was oatmeal and rust colored, this was the phase of your life that you are not in anymore." I'm like, "No, I am not. " But there are certain things that that face did bring, which I still love. And she was like, "Yeah, you still love it?
(24:44)
Keep it. " Overalls and clogs. I was like, "I'm not going to give up my overalls and clogs life." And she's like, "You don't have to. However, we're going to whittle down the overalls to the ones that you wear and the ones that make you feel good that don't come from a place of sadness." And then there was- Well,
Elise Hu (25:02):
That's the principle. Does
Doree Shafrir (25:04):
This make
Elise Hu (25:04):
You feel
Doree Shafrir (25:06):
Bad? Yeah. I mean, it's kind of the old, does this spark joy,
Maurene Goo (25:10):
But the opposite. And the thing is she's like, if something ... I would tell her, "I love these jeans. They don't really fit me, but I love them." And she's like, "Well, just keep them." She's like, "Let's make a pile of revisit later and then to make a pile of things that you're not wearing them because you're not taking care of them." So all these sweaters, they would look better if you just deep pilled them, put them in the deep pill pile, put this in the get it tailored pile and then revisit.
Elise Hu (25:39):
On the sweater pilling, I was actually thinking about this very sweater that I'm wearing right now, which I love and is very soft. I
Maurene Goo (25:44):
Have the best- I need a deep ... That's
Elise Hu (25:46):
What I was going to say, what is your go- to tool to de- pill sweaters?
Maurene Goo (25:50):
So everybody suggests a cashmere brush, but I don't like the cashmere brush. I bought it. I
Elise Hu (25:55):
Was going to say, it's not great for-
Maurene Goo (25:57):
And it scares me. I'm scared I'm going to tug a hole in it. There's this electric one that somebody somewhere on some Substack recommended to me, it is the best. It's the best. I do it for all my sweaters every time.
Elise Hu (26:10):
You must put it in the chat
Maurene Goo (26:11):
Before
Elise Hu (26:12):
We end this interview because I have been searching for this. This is my white whale because I
Maurene Goo (26:18):
Need a better sweater deep pillar. It's a soothing activity. You're like, "I'm just going to listen
Elise Hu (26:24):
To a podcast." No, my partner loves you. Sweaters for 15 minutes. I like to give it to him as projects because he's on a call and he likes to deep pill sweaters. Yeah.
Maurene Goo (26:34):
Oh my God, I love that. Yes. Hopefully he'll love this. So the other thing that she had was she brought her own rack and she put it in my living room and she pulled out everything by section, so pants and she put all the pants out. So putting it on the rack, that helped. And then she made me get all new hangers. She was like, "I cannot believe you hang your pants like this. " I'm like, "I know. " And so she made me get these hangers. She's like, "You actually stop trying to save space and combine things like that. You will never wear this stuff."
Elise Hu (27:04):
And it's hard to see, right? Yeah. I feel like there's so many pants that I don't wear because I was trying to get those pants stacker things and ...
Maurene Goo (27:11):
Yeah, don't use the pant stackers. If it's a pain to put on and off, you're just going to avoid it. And so we got single use hangers, amazing. And yeah, then we made a donation pile, we made a resale pile, we made a clothing swap pile. She made me sit there and make those piles and she folded everything back for me and put them in the ... Because she's like, "You're never going to do this. We have to do it right now." Anyways, she's the best. So she basically now knows everything I have in my closet and she helped me figure out outfits with some of them too. So she was like, "Let's look at this stuff that you like, but you don't see yourself reaching for, and let's see if we can make outfits for you that. " So I have these, for example, vintage purple- I don't even know how to describe it, mandarin pattern silky crop pants.
(28:04)
They're so cool, but I'm like, "I just don't know other than a white button up or a plaque sweater." And she had me wear it with this sweater and she was like, "Look at that. " I'm like, "Oh, okay." And then she had me wear with a T-shirt and then a jean jacket. So she made me some outfit ideas and then we took photos of outfits that maybe I might wear on my book tour. And so I've got my book tour stuff. I have a couple of more high profile things that I can't really talk about, but she made me outfits for that. And then she's been helping me. She sends me like, "Oh, how about the scarf? How about this? " She sends me links to stuff, but she also is so generous. And I don't think a lot of stylists do this. She and I are roughly the same size, so she's just letting me borrow stuff.
(28:51)
I had to go to this event, like a dinner, she let me borrow her dress from the row. She let me borrow this little high sport blazer that I wore to the Golden Globe thing.
Elise Hu (29:00):
Oh, this is a nice purse. Of your stylist relationship. Because I was already going to say you're getting more than just a stylist already because she's also a de facto closet organizer.
Maurene Goo (29:11):
Yes. So I just think she's being really generous with me and I don't know if she even offers this service to be honest, but I reached out to her and we were chatting about it and I think she was excited by the challenge of the things that I needed clothing for. And then of course, just the closet clean out is just her regular thing that she does. So yeah, she's been great.
Elise Hu (29:37):
We should mention that part of the reason you've been going to the Golden Globes and have all these big events is because your husband Chris is being celebrated after directing K-pop demon hunters. Perhaps y'all have heard of it. How has that ride been for y'all and your family over the last year plus?
Maurene Goo (29:58):
It has been very nuts. In a good way, but also in an overwhelming way, if I'm being honest, it's just very shocking and lovely and really it's thrown our lives kind of upside down, but all for good reason. And I feel really fortunate obviously and very proud.
Elise Hu (30:25):
How do you feel like it's kind of turned things upside down for you in the most tangible way?
Maurene Goo (30:30):
Just schedule wise. So Chris's schedule is nuts. He was traveling so much. So basically there's an award season campaigning that he had to do. And it just means he goes to a bazillion festivals all around the world. Sometimes you know way ahead of time. Obviously we have had Golden Globes and stuff like that on our schedule ahead of time, but certain things pop up very last minute like, oh, can you fly to New York for this thing, the screening that they're doing? Even me hiring our stylist, I don't think I would've done that. And then my schedule too with just childcare and having a kid and then money. Things have just really changed if I'm being very candid. But also, and my husband is an introvert. This is really like a lot. This is
Elise Hu (31:27):
A lot for him. Yeah. It must be very
Maurene Goo (31:29):
Draining. Yeah, it is. But he's not a complainer and he would never complain about this. He knows that it's also an honor and a privilege. So it's been very exciting. It's really something too though, because I've watched him and I have also sacrificed for this movie. He's been killing himself over for like five years. Ever since my kid was born, he's been working on this movie. And it was a lot when we had a young child and his schedule was nuts during this movie. It was very demanding. And so it is very gratifying to see something. Creative people, this is what we do. We do so much work and we're like hoping maybe a few people connect with it. Maybe it'll be financially successful to help us out. And it kind of did all of the above.
Elise Hu (32:19):
Yeah. Congratulations.
Maurene Goo (32:21):
Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. I mean,
Elise Hu (32:25):
What a great film to put out into the world and look at what an impact it's had for generations of people, especially Asian identifying. To see all these kids dressing up as Rumi during trick or treating, it was very moving. And then we had a guest on, my dermatologist was on actually a few months ago and we asked her about a celebrity that she wanted to be friends with. And she was like, "Does this count? EJ from K-pop Demon Hunters because of her story and what she's been through." And I'm like, "Of course it counts. She is a legit
Maurene Goo (32:57):
Celebrity." She is very lovely and wonderful. And just everybody involved. Nobody involved only did a little bit of work. So it's just really ... Yeah. I can't even tell you. Halloween, I'm like crying. It was so moving, right? Halloween parade they have at school. I'm like, everybody is Rumi or Zoe. Not many mirrors. I have to say I'm a little sad about that. A lot of the moms Ramirez, but not only that, but like the boys were such a boys. Yes. Yes.
Elise Hu (33:34):
To dress up as Asian boys or Asian men. Yeah.
Maurene Goo (33:38):
So many little white boys dressed up as a sajaba. I'm like,
Elise Hu (33:41):
"This is so
Maurene Goo (33:41):
Cute." I
Doree Shafrir (33:43):
Mean, just even on my son's baseball team in the fall, they all had to pick a song for like walk up music and like half of them chose songs from K-pop demon hunters. Some of them were Korean, but not all of them. I mean, it was just ... Oh,
Elise Hu (33:58):
That's a thing. Really unifying.
Doree Shafrir (34:01):
Really cool.
Elise Hu (34:02):
Okay. Let's take a break and we will be right back.
Doree Shafrir (34:11):
I want to get back to your book, if I may. It was such a delight to read. I mean, partly because I know you, but also because it was just a delight. And also because like you said in the beginning, it's such a love letter to LA. And I love how your books feel so LA, but it's not like a Hollywood LA. And there were so many little details in it that I loved. For one thing, I was just at spoke bicycle cafe on Saturday with Henry because it's one of his favorite places. And we always go there and then take a walk along the LA River. So there were just like all these little spots that I was like, "Oh no, I love that. I love that spot too. I love that too." So thank you for like just your beautiful writing about Los Angeles.
(34:56)
And now I must discuss Ellis. Oh, yes. Half
Elise Hu (35:03):
Jewish. I
Doree Shafrir (35:06):
Mean,
Elise Hu (35:07):
What a honk. Ellis is the young guy.
Doree Shafrir (35:10):
Yeah. He's the 28 year old. He's the
Elise Hu (35:11):
Young guy out
Doree Shafrir (35:12):
Of the table. Not that he knows. We haven't even talked about the fact that there is like a delicious age gap relationship here.
Maurene Goo (35:19):
Oh yes.
Doree Shafrir (35:21):
She falls for this 28 year old guy who rescues her from the banks of the LA River after she falls on her bike. This all happens in the first like 10 pages or something, so I'm not revealing
Maurene Goo (35:32):
It. And the LA River has no water in it really, so it was majority. I mean, it happened this past weekend. That's true. We are out of the drought. We are out of the drought, so we do
Doree Shafrir (35:41):
Have some. Yeah. So yeah, I don't really have a profound question here. I just wanted to take a moment to appreciate the character of Ellis. And what was in your head when you were creating this delectable snack of a man?
Maurene Goo (36:02):
Well, there are two hunks in this book. Just want you to know. One of them is Ellis who is a 28 year old and his boss is Daniel, who is more in early 40s. Okay. Daniel is also a hunk, but like- Danielle's hot. He has a British accent. Okay. This is true. This is true. But Ellis is like- Deadly combo. Yes. Yeah. I know. Ellis is a special cinnamon bun. I wanted to make a younger dude. I knew that was going to be a pivotal plot point. And there's so much age gap romance right now happening. I feel like it is our time, but I really wanted it to be grounded in reality other than the fact that there's a bit of magic in the book. But what does it actually mean for a 40 year old woman to date a 28 year old guy?
(36:55)
It's not just glamorous and titillating. You have to have questions of what is our future if we are talking about a real relationship here. And also, but at the same time, I wanted this woman to be confident. And the thing that isn't like a conflict is, "Am I hot enough? Am I going to stay hot enough for this young guy?" It's like she's like, "Dude, I'm hot. It's fine."
(37:22)
And also who cares? Yes. I'm an interesting ... He's lucky to be with me. Yes.
Doree Shafrir (37:28):
Yeah. Her reservations about the age gap weren't based in an insecurity about her looks or anything like that. It was more just where she was in her life.
Maurene Goo (37:39):
Exactly. Does he want to have a family? And of course there is the first time they are intimate, I guess. Or she does, of course, have to have a moment of like, "Listen, I'm not just going to show up. I have to do things. I have to groom. I have to do the routine. I'm not delusional. Okay. I'm still 40 and I still want to look hot." So there was a bit of that that I was thinking about. And I also wanted him to be a character that was worthy of a 40-year-old woman who had a great life, that he's offering more than just, "I'm free. I'm a free spirited cutie." It's like, he's also a wonderful human and she admires him and there are things that he brings out in her that are valuable to her and the way that he conducts his life in a way that is beyond, it goes beyond age.
(38:38)
So I needed to create ... He was a hard one. And I also didn't want it to feel too like, "Oh, he's so perfect." Earlier dress, my editor was like, "Okay, both of these guys are too perfect." They need some edge. They need some texture. Fine.
Elise Hu (38:56):
It is a romance though. So sort of like this is aspirational. Maurene, before we let you go, we mentioned at the top, or you talked about at the top about how you read a lot of romance as well, and you're just a big reader in general. So what's on your nightstand? What do you recommend?
Maurene Goo (39:12):
I love this question. I am currently reading August Lane, which is, I think I came out a year ago, a couple of years ago. My friend who is also a romance author, Christina Forrest, she recommended it to me. It is about the daughter of a black country singer and her romance with her old high school love coming back into town. And it's just really angsty and beautiful. And I always love, I think because my foot is always in YA. I love when you get to go back in time and read their high school romance and then fast forward to today. I love the country music element of it. I think that makes this really fun. And then I also just finished ... See, I read so many books at once when it's romance. I also finished Tessa Bailey's newest one. She's doing this fun sports series, which I'm like, yes, please.
(40:10)
And the newest one, I think it's called Catcher If You Can, baseball player and a burlesque
Elise Hu (40:16):
Baseball
Maurene Goo (40:17):
Player's dancer. Amazing.
Elise Hu (40:19):
Yeah, because the heated rivalry series is so, so booked out on Libby and at the libraries there's like 24 week holds for everything. Tessa
Maurene Goo (40:31):
Bailey also has two- Tessa Bailey. Two hockey romances in this series. So
Elise Hu (40:37):
Yeah,
Maurene Goo (40:37):
She's always reliable.
Elise Hu (40:39):
Awesome. Great rest. This is fantastic. And listeners, you can hear more from Maurene in our Q&A, our Forever35 questionnaire on the Patreon tomorrow, so long as you're a Patreon subscriber. Maurene, congratulations on the latest book. Oh, thank you so much. Thanks for coming on.
Maurene Goo (40:56):
Thank you guys.
Doree Shafrir (41:00):
It's always fun when I get to have you meet someone that I've known for a long time.
Elise Hu (41:06):
Yeah. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (41:08):
And I feel like you must feel that way too, like when we talk
Elise Hu (41:10):
To Tanya. Yeah, I was going to say it goes the other way around too with Tanya last week and we've gotten a lot of good feedback from that episode as well. So I'm really thrilled to get to know her and she's nearby. So maybe I will see her in person sometime. It was funny because after we had Jade Chang on, another author here in Los Angeles, not long after that, I got to see her in person because it was her actual book event and she had this massive book party, lots of overlapping friends. And then surprise, surprise, like at a totally unrelated thing, it wasn't a book party for her. I ran into her again and it had nothing to do with the literary community. It turns out she's really old friends with my doctor friend, Dr. Jen, one of my besties who runs the ketamine clinic from who knows where.
(41:59)
I have no idea. It was like from college- That's so funny. ... like a college mutual. Yeah. So it's great. We live in a big city, but it always feels like a small town and I like that. And we've gotten to ... I think one of the great thrills of getting to be an interviewer for a living is all the cool people that we get to meet.
Doree Shafrir (42:19):
It's so true. Elise, last week your intention was to take care of your plants. So how did that go?
Elise Hu (42:27):
I watched Abe climb in the house plant that's in my bedroom and pee in it.
Doree Shafrir (42:32):
Oh, okay.
Elise Hu (42:35):
And then he kicked up all the dirt, like the potting soil all over the place because he was treating it like a litter box. So my plants aren't that happy with me. I like failed to protect it. And I was like, "Abe, no." And I was trying to stop him before he could finish and he was just staring, staring at me. Total eye contact the whole time. While he's urinating in my plant. I know. Both my dog and my cat are boys and they are very male. I sent these photos to our group chat, our show group chat with the two Sam's and you of both of them just like manspreading
Doree Shafrir (43:10):
In the exact
Elise Hu (43:12):
Same position. They
Doree Shafrir (43:14):
Were really manspreading.
Elise Hu (43:15):
Yeah. My pets are bros. I guess they have to balance out all the estrogen in the house.
Doree Shafrir (43:25):
Yeah. They really were like taking up space.
Elise Hu (43:31):
So I'm a little upset about what's going on with my plants. I'm still working on it, but this week my intention is going to be to actually take vitamins because I have these, I got a bunch of ritual vitamins, which are supposed to be like some newfangled good vitamin that's like, they're colorless and I don't know, they're supposed to be good, vegan or whatever. And so I have two bottles of ritual vitamins and I'm going to start taking them. I'm supposed to take two a day and that's going to be my intention. And I'm just trying to do something with some regularity. What about you? How did you do on being okay with uncertainty
Doree Shafrir (44:10):
In this time? I'm just like taking it day by day, I guess, is the only way to do it. That's all we can do. Bird by burn, right? Exactly, exactly. So yeah, and trying not to catastrophize too many steps down the road, you know what I mean?
Elise Hu (44:35):
I have a tendency to do that with the kids, especially because Ava wanted to quit dance and I was like, "Well, then now you will never dance again." And she's like, "Mom, slow down." She's like, "I just don't want to take dance anymore because I have too much going on. " And I'm like, "You're giving up on your magic." That's a me problem, not a her problem. I think her magic, if it's magic, we'll live inside her always.
Doree Shafrir (45:03):
Yes, for sure. For sure. I do have one project that I need to finish and I need to not let my anxiety about this other uncertain stuff to get in my head and make me not finish this other thing. Do you know what I mean? Sorry to be so vague, but it's like ...
Elise Hu (45:27):
All right, let's clarify what the intention is then. Is it just to finish the first
Doree Shafrir (45:32):
Main project? To finish this project and not let my brain spiral. So just staying focused. Sometimes ... Yeah. Yeah. Stay focused. Sometimes I feel like I get so consumed with anxiety about a certain thing that I can't focus and finish what I need to do. Does that make sense?
Elise Hu (45:54):
Yeah. So just staying focused, staying in the same focus, that kind of thing. Yeah. Love that. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (45:58):
Which is similar to my intention from last week, but I feel like I'm still kind of in the same mode.
Elise Hu (46:03):
Yeah, that makes sense. All right.
Doree Shafrir (46:05):
Well, thank you. Everybody. Yeah. Forever35 is hosted and produced by me, Dori Shafrir and Elise Hu and produced and edited by Sammee Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partners, Acast. Thanks so much. Talk to you next time. Bye.