Episode 383: The Joy of Adult Hobbies with Anne Helen Petersen | Culture Study Cross-Over Episode
Doree and Elise are on a cross-over episode with Anne Helen Petersen’s Culture Study podcast! They chat about finding hobbies as an adult, what counts as a hobby, and how to logistically find a good hobby.
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Transcript
The transcript for this episode is AI generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:17):
And I'm Elise Hu and we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums. Happy New Year to y'all. This is our first episode of 2026. We are here.
Doree Shafrir (00:26):
We are so here and we have a very special episode for you today that I'm so excited about. We did a crossover episode with none other than Anne Helen Petersen, the host of the Culture Study Podcast, the writer of the culture study newsletter. I've known Anne Helen for 10 years maybe. We worked together at Buzzfeed. I edited a lot of her work, been a longtime fan and friend of hers. She's awesome. And it was really nice to get to talk to her about hobbies.
Elise Hu (00:59):
Yes. So we go into hobbies because I think, well, she'll tell you, she'll explain in the episode. A lot of culture study podcast listeners have been wanting an episode about hobbies and not just what we do in our spare time, the value of hobbies, the way you think about them, nurture them, why hobbies, et cetera, et cetera. So we get into all of that. In this podcast episode, please enjoy it.
Doree Shafrir (01:24):
Quickly before we jump in, you can visit our website, forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mention here on the show. We are on Instagram at Forever35 podcast. Our Patreon is at patreon.com/Forever35 and new for 2026. We are doing our casual chats on video. We will also be doing a quarterly live casual chat because we had so much fun doing the one a couple months ago.
(01:55)
So join us at patreon.com/forever35 and get in on all the fun. You can shop our favorite products at shopmy.us/forever35. Our newsletter is also on Patreon now. You don't need to be a paying member to get our newsletter. You can just sign up as a free member and you'll get our newsletter. And just a reminder that you can call or text us with questions, comments, concerns for our mini episodes at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcast@gmail.com. Also, I'm just going to quickly formally introduce Anne Helen because I don't think we actually do that as we're talking to her. So
(02:38)
For those of you who are not familiar with Anne Helen, although I know that there's a ton of crossover between our two audiences, Anne Helen grew up in North Idaho. She received her PhD in media studies from the University of Texas. She was in academia and then she moved over to journalism. After she started, she wrote a freelance piece for Buzzfeed and then she got a job at BuzzFeed in 2014 and her work there in celebrity analysis was what sort of eventually led to culture study. In addition to culture study, she has also written four books and the most recent book is Out of Office: The Big Problem and Bigger Promise of Working From Home. So we will now segue over to our episode with Anne Helen. Enjoy.
Anne Helen Petersen (03:39):
This is the Culture Study Podcast, and I'm Anne Helen Petersen. And I'm Doree Shafrier.
Elise Hu (03:44):
And I'm Elise Hu, and we are the co-hosts of the Forever35 podcast, which is all about how we take care of ourselves.
Anne Helen Petersen (03:52):
Today's episode is probably the most requested subject in the almost two years that I've been doing the podcast. I write about this subject a lot and the newsletter has a lot of discussion threads about it, but today we're finally going to get into it in podcast form. And the thing that we're talking about is adult hobbies. And we have a ton of great questions from listeners and we're going to get into specific advice about hobbies because a lot of people want suggestions on hobbies or about how to handle their hobbies. That's going to be in the last part of the show, in the ask and anything segment. So if you're not a paid subscriber and you want to be part of that conversation, you definitely want to sign up at patreon.com/culturestudy. But to kick things off, we're recording this a couple days after a big hobby related event in Doree's life.
(04:40)
So Doree, tell us all about it. I can't wait. Oh my gosh.
Doree Shafrir (04:46):
Okay. So hi everyone. One of my tennis teams recently went to the USTA League National Championship where 17 teams at your level from the different sections throughout the country compete for the national championship. And we went representing SoCal and this is a hobby of mine. This is my main hobby. This is something that I started doing very casually during COVID because I was going stir crazy and decided to take tennis lessons. I'd taken some lessons as a kid, but I never played competitively. It was not like my sport that I was getting back into. I was just like-
Anne Helen Petersen (05:32):
Yeah, that's what I ... I think people assume that you were like maybe a tennis star in high school
Doree Shafrir (05:36):
Or something like that. No, I swam in high school. I was a swimmer. I didn't play tennis. I couldn't even serve. I'd never played a match in my life. So yeah, so this was very spontaneous and more just like, "I need to get outside. Oh, there's a public court near my house. Cool." And then fast forward, three years later, and here I am at the League National Championships with my team.
Anne Helen Petersen (06:06):
So we're going to get so much more into that as we go through this episode. But when I first reached out, I knew that I wanted to talk to you specifically, Doree, about adult hobbies and you're like, "Elise has a great hobby, but it's not what people might imagine or what people might even..." And this, we're going to talk about what makes a hobby later in the show, but Elise, what would you say your hobby is?
Elise Hu (06:32):
Well, it's so funny because if you were to ask me on a date or something, I would be like, "I don't have any hobbies."
(06:38)
And so I either have a lot of them or I have one consistent one. So I make sure that I have in each week of my life units for reading, which is a hobby and units for exercise and all these things that I consider outside of capitalistic exchange and stuff. And that's what I consider a hobby. But I think what I have come to really spend a lot of my energy on over the last couple of years, because it gives me meaning and purpose and joy is just sort of kin building or community building. And so I spend a lot of energy just like, "Okay, what's the next party I'm going to throw for everybody?" Or, "What can I do at my house to get more dogs to stop by?" So now I'm doing a treat station at my house. I already have the little free library, which neighbors can I get to know better?
(07:30)
And so that's actually
Anne Helen Petersen (07:32):
Been- Doree phrased it to me as, "you like meeting people."
Elise Hu (07:35):
Yeah, I do. You love meeting people. I do. And I think that there's something really rich about it too, because you're colliding with people of completely different backgrounds or experiences and who knows what it can lead to later on. But it also, mainly it makes me feel alive and human and I think that we need that in these times.
Doree Shafrir (07:56):
Elise hosted my birthday party. Oh yeah. Mostly with my house she had never met before. She was like, "Just invite your friends." I was like, okay.
Anne Helen Petersen (08:08):
That's great. I was just going to say, Elise, one thing that you can add to your repertoire of getting people to stop by more, someone that I interviewed for my book whose story I just love so much, they're in New York,
Anne Helen Petersen (08:19):
But
Anne Helen Petersen (08:19):
I think you can do this anywhere. He put a xylophone on a string on, not like a big one, like one like a couple feet on a string on his stoop. And so every kid in the neighborhood is like, "That's the xylophone stoop." And they all stop by and like sit, you know what I mean? So he's made it not just a beacon for dogs, but also for children.
Elise Hu (08:43):
Oh, I like that. I wonder if my own kids would find that so annoying.
Anne Helen Petersen (08:50):
Don't let your kids interfere with your adult hobby.
Elise Hu (08:53):
Maybe
Doree Shafrir (08:54):
That's a reason to do it.
Elise Hu (08:56):
Yeah. They hate it when I play piano. Playing piano is one of my hobbies, but I have to do it alone in the middle of the day.
Anne Helen Petersen (09:05):
So I feel like people who listen to this podcast know what my hobbies are, but I should put them out there because there's going to be other listeners to this podcast, other than people who've heard me talk about how I spend a lot of time growing Dahlias. That has been my major new post-pandemic hobby. But I was into gardening. I've been a gardener for a really long time and I actually was a gardener even while I was in grad school. And I can actually trace the times of the most burnout in my life are the times when I didn't have a garden. And I've written about this before, but I only realized in hindsight that part of curating yourself a burnout is having something to turn away to, right? It's not just like I can't work as much. You have to have something else
Elise Hu (09:53):
That
Anne Helen Petersen (09:53):
Can become that other access in your life. And so gardening, I also long distance run. I don't even know if I think about that as a hobby. There's always this fine line for me with exercise, right? Is it regimenting my body? Is weightlifting? Is doing a Peloton workout
Elise Hu (10:10):
My hobby? You know the difference for me is if it's social, then I consider it my hobby. So I run with running buddies and so that I guess falls under the general umbrella of just being with others and it makes it feel less like a chore, which exercise can be.
Anne Helen Petersen (10:34):
And I think for everyone, it's totally different. And even day to day for me, how I think about exercise is like, is this hobby exercise or is this like trying to be strong to combat osteoporosis in my future, that sort of thing.
Elise Hu (10:51):
Do you consider yourself a baker too?
Anne Helen Petersen (10:53):
No. No. God. No. I can bake one thing. Do you
Elise Hu (10:56):
Bake? Okay. No, not really. I was just curious because I know a lot of people ... I feel like the older we get, the more people get into plants. Suddenly I care a lot about my plants and I'm like, "What happened? What was the shift?" But then also take up baking. So I was just curious.
Anne Helen Petersen (11:12):
Yeah. Okay. Let's hear our first question, which comes from Eileen and Melody's going to read it.
Melody Raoul (11:18):
I'd love to hear about parents with multiple school age kids who are involved in competitive activities, high level sports, or building strong college applications. Most evenings are spent shuttling to practices or clubs, rarely home before 9:00 PM, and weekends are filled with tournaments or prepping for the week ahead. And this is often with only one or two activities per kid. At these levels, parents have to be involved too, learning the process, showing up, and helping their kids reach the next stage, especially with sports and college prep. Add in homework, laundry, and cooking, and there is barely a minute left. I'm not complaining. I love being part of this stage for my kids, but there's also pressure to find hobbies and do things for myself, and it is not that straightforward. We already rely on our networks just to make it all work. And honestly, when downtime comes, I just want to read a book on the couch.
(12:06)
The kids' activities can start to feel like our hobbies because the friendships, time with other parents, and all the involvement is such a big part of life. Honestly, is it so wrong if that is really my hobby right now? I would love to hear how other parents in this stage think about it and what balance looks like for them. I have the same
Elise Hu (12:23):
Questions.
Anne Helen Petersen (12:24):
Well, my first comment to Eileen is that right now her hobby is intensive parenting.
(12:31)
And I'm not saying that in a derogatory way, just to be clear from the top, but there are a couple things in the question that really point to the fact that this is a level of involvement in kids' hobbies that didn't used to be standard. My mom certainly was not involved in any of my high school hobbies or really in my college prep. That was not something that she was intimately involved in or she did not facilitate it. She did not come and watch every time that I cheerleaded, for example. But that's okay, right? I think that's the thing is she feels like there's a pressure to be involved in intensive parenting, but also cultivate a rich life of the personal mind and all of these other components of her life. And I don't think you have to feel pressure about that, but it's okay to acknowledge that maybe this is your hobby for this season of life.
(13:19)
What do you guys think?
Doree Shafrir (13:20):
I was going to say, I feel like we have to acknowledge that there's going to be seasons of life. I would not have been able to take up tennis when I was doing IVF
(13:31)
Or had a newborn. Just my life was not in a place where that was going to be able to happen. And for this listener too, you're not always going to be the parent of three kids playing competitive sports. Your kids will not always be in that phase and you will probably end up having more time. I also think my hobby has become sort of all consuming, but a hobby doesn't have to be all consuming. Really good point. You can do needle point once a month and that can be your hobby. I mean, I don't think it has to be something that you're doing all the time. Yeah.
Anne Helen Petersen (14:17):
Elise, what do you think?
Elise Hu (14:17):
I like that. I have a lot of thoughts about being a sport parent because I have recently ... I have two kids who are now playing club sports or like travel ball and the youngest
Doree Shafrir (14:28):
Is- Yeah, and you have three kids. Eight years
Elise Hu (14:29):
Old. And I have three kids total. The middle one is a dancer and does a bunch of company dance. And I feel as though there's kind of this arms race with the parents too. Not only do you need to show up at the game, there's also, I would say a comfortable majority of the parents that sit through entire practices. So they will practice volleyball two hours for three times a week for two hours, and they have parents that just sit there on the sidelines and give over their time
(15:00)
To volleyball practice. So not even the games or scrimmages. And so I guess two things. One is totally echoing what the two of y'all are saying and that our hobbies don't need to be all consuming. They should be a return to ourselves in a way. Obviously, if you're feeling like your pursuits have gotten too ego driven or competitive, that hobbies are a way to be really soul driven and I like that as a heuristic. And then secondly, you can also evaluate how much you are spending on the sidelines of things too. So I'm not saying that this caller is necessarily sitting through every single practice, but there are many parents that I have observed that are doing that and I choose not to, but it just does seem like there's a social pressure to be involved at a level, like at the maximal level.
Anne Helen Petersen (15:53):
Right. No, and I will say that there were a lot of other cheerleaders whose parents would come and watch every single game. And there was part of me that was like, why isn't my mom coming to watch? And then in hindsight, I'm like, first of all, I wouldn't have wanted her there. It was embarrassing to have my mom surveilling me, right? For me personally. But then also she had a lot of other things to do and that's okay. She showed up and anytime that I said it was important, she was always there. And I think that's an important gauge. But yeah, I do think sometimes we get so wrapped up in the feeling that there is no other option.
Elise Hu (16:29):
Right. Everyone
Anne Helen Petersen (16:29):
Else is doing it. This is the only way to be a sports parent. And sometimes there are slightly different options, but
Doree Shafrir (16:36):
Doree- I also just want to point out that there are things you can do whilst sitting on the sidelines. Yeah, totally. Especially if you are going to practices, which do not require constant engagement in my personal opinion. As I mentioned before, I was a swimmer as a kid and in high school and my brother and sister also swam and swim meets are very long and very boring and my mom was knitting the whole time.
Doree Shafrir (17:08):
Yes.
Doree Shafrir (17:09):
She's just sitting there knitting.
Anne Helen Petersen (17:12):
Okay. So our comments are there are ways to fit in hobbies if you want, but I think Eileen is looking for permission structure to not have hobbies right now and we are onboard with
Doree Shafrir (17:21):
That. Oh yeah, that's
Doree Shafrir (17:22):
Fine too.
Melody Raoul (17:23):
Wait, can I point something out?
Anne Helen Petersen (17:25):
Yeah.
Melody Raoul (17:26):
Eileen mentions a hobby in this question.
Anne Helen Petersen (17:28):
What?
Melody Raoul (17:29):
Reading is a hobby. She
Elise Hu (17:31):
Reads every day.
Melody Raoul (17:32):
Yeah. More than a lot of people do. If you have downtime and quote unquote all you want to do is read, that is a hobby. You're doing it.
Anne Helen Petersen (17:42):
No, and I actually have encountered this a lot in the culture study comments talking about hobbies. One person will always pipe up and be like, "Reading is my hobby." And then many other people would be like, "I never thought about how reading could be a hobby." And I think that's because it's become so ... There's just lots of different balances of why you read, who reads, that sort of thing. And it can only be your hobby if you only read in genre. If you're a sci-fi reader, that can be a hobby, but if you're just reading, then that's not- That doesn't count. Hobby coded. I don't know. This is just how people think of themselves. They need to have a framework that understands that reading is a hobby. Okay. Next
Listener Voicemail (18:34):
Question. This comes from Kelsey. What counts as a hobby? I always struggle to answer the question when somebody asks what my hobbies are. Is there a universal definition and does a hobby have to be working towards improving a skill or can it truly just be something you like?
Anne Helen Petersen (18:51):
Wow, good job, me already answering the question, but I want to hear, what do you guys think?
Elise Hu (18:57):
Yeah, I talked a little bit about this earlier. Usually I consider my hobbies things that aren't transactional. I'm not doing it to make money or to monetize it. I journal regularly, which is different than writing because I write for pay, but then I journal for myself. And I think that can happen with books too. We have to read a lot for our work, but I read for pleasure, which makes that more of a hobby. So that's one delineation. And then the other I touched on as well, which is like, is it ego driven or is it soul driven? And if it's a more soul driven activity, then I classify it as a hobby.
Anne Helen Petersen (19:34):
Dorie, what do you think?
Doree Shafrir (19:36):
And I think that this has touched on a little bit in another question as well, where someone was asking about why she always feels the need to monetize her hobbies, that we've become conditioned to feeling like hobbies must be quote unquote productive. And I think that's a trap. You don't always have to be improving. I mean, when I first started playing tennis, I was like, "I'm not going to play matches. I'm just doing this for fun." And then I kind of realized that it becomes more fun the better you get at tennis. And so the way to get better at tennis was to start playing matches. And so that just sort of ... And then I was like, "Oh, I actually really enjoy this. " But my husband plays guitar, that's his hobby. He's not in a band. He doesn't perform. He just plays for his own enjoyment.
(20:33)
And to me, that sort of feels like the definition of a hobby is just doing something that you're not making money from that you get pleasure out of.
Anne Helen Petersen (20:42):
Yeah. No,
Doree Shafrir (20:43):
And I think
Anne Helen Petersen (20:45):
We're going to talk more about this monetization move later. The idea too that sometimes a hobby has to be something that you could document that has to be Instagramable almost, right? And I think that's part of what we were talking about earlier about people saying it's hard to conceive of reading as a hobby because besides Instagramming your mezon sen of your book and your coffee or whatever, there's not a lot of ... Or even just putting the books that you've read on Instagram, which Melody does this and I love it. And to me, that emphasizes to me, "Oh, one of Melody's hobbies is reading." But you don't have to put it on Instagram for it to be your hobby.
Elise Hu (21:27):
Right. I
Anne Helen Petersen (21:27):
Was thinking, Elise, while you were talking about someone earlier this month writing out their morning routine and what it included is writing her morning pages, which is her journaling, and she throws them away when she's done with
Elise Hu (21:42):
It. Oh, I love the ephemera of that.
Anne Helen Petersen (21:45):
Yeah. That's cool. I
Elise Hu (21:47):
Love the notion that every moment is a cherry blossom, it's gone.
Anne Helen Petersen (21:52):
Yeah. Yeah. And you don't, because other people, I think sometimes if they're journaling, they're like, "Oh, I don't want to ever look at this again." Or, "I do want to look at it, but where do I keep these?" Just all of that weight of collection. And sometimes you can just do it and throw it away.
Elise Hu (22:08):
Yeah.
Anne Helen Petersen (22:08):
Doree, when you started getting more in the competitive aspect, was there any part of you that was like, "Be careful, don't get too sucked into this, or make sure you still have fun," that part? No. Good. No, I'm fine because for me, I'm so scared of trying to optimize my hobby that I sometimes I think put the brakes on too hard, if that makes sense.
Doree Shafrir (22:35):
So it's funny because I drove to nationals and back with three of my teammates, like we carpooled and on the way back, we were reflecting, "Oh, our team this season, we're probably going to make it to sectionals and we're really good." And one of my teammates was like, "I'm tired of all the winning." And I was like, "You know what? I feel that too sometimes." It does create this sort of pressure and to be ... And now we're sort of known as a team that wins a lot and what happens when we lose and I'm the captain of the team, which is something that I also get a lot of enjoyment out of. It really suits my personality, but there's also pressure to it. And I'm captain of multiple teams this season and I was like, "Okay, I need to ... Next season, I'm just going to captain one team." The logistics of it became too much and I was starting to lose some of the enjoyment I was getting out of
Elise Hu (23:38):
It.
Doree Shafrir (23:40):
And I think that was me sort of pumping the brakes and realizing, okay, I do really love this, but I've kind of like taken it to a level that it did not need to be taken to and I need to sort of like dial it back. And I love all the aspects of being a captain and thinking about the lineups and analyzing other teams and that like scratches a real itch for me, but I also love playing and I want to be able to play and not always have to be thinking about like the strategy, the team strategy aspect of it. So I think that's sort of how that has manifested for me to your question.
Anne Helen Petersen (24:26):
Yeah. Gosh, that's so real. I mean, for me with the Dahlias, I love the collection part of it, which is how people get addicted to it, is there's just so many that you feel like you can always get more.
(24:38)
And there's so many beautiful different varietals. And so like when a new one is bread, which like this is kind of nerdy, but the way that the jeans and dahlias are, they can create basically infinite combinations when you breed them. So they can be giant, they can be bigger than the size of my face. They can be like the size of a thumbnail. They can be every color except for blue and green. They can be open and closed and big petals and messy mops and all sorts of things. And so there's that like the categorization component of like being a kid and wanting to sort things, right? That is incredibly pleasurable to me. And then I just love also like the anticipation of you plant them and then they sprout and then you, like you just have to check on them all the time.
Elise Hu (25:31):
Yes.
Anne Helen Petersen (25:32):
That's like my hermit crab. Yes. There's always something to see and
(25:37)
That thing that I'm seeing is never a judgment of like my worth, right? It's not the way that my work travels on the internet or how well a podcast episode is doing or whether I've sold a book. It's like, is the flower about to bloom or not? So I love that part. And then the components of it, I do it with two of my best friends here on the island and there are components sometimes when we're like, "We got to cut down all these flowers to make these bouquets for tomorrow." Oh, kind of a slog. And sometimes when I find myself in that moment, I try to really like pause. I actually do this. I pause and I take a deep breath and I'm like, "You really like this. Find the thing that you remember that you really like about doing this. " Because sometimes you got to do the thing that's like sucky.
(26:25)
Like right now we're digging all the tubers and it fucking sucks, but it's part of the seasonality of it.
Elise Hu (26:31):
My parents are both gardeners and have green thumbs and my mom was reflecting last time she was over because she helps take care of my lawn because I'm not good at it. So she'll come over and be like, "Oh my God, when was the last time you watered this? What about fertilizer?" And so I'm just like, "I don't know. I do it by feel." And she was like, "The beautiful thing about nature is that it speaks to you and it works in its own time and you can't rush it. " And just spending time outside is so valuable for that, just that we cannot impose our will on those
Anne Helen Petersen (27:06):
Flowers. No, for sure. And stuff dies all the time and you just have to get okay with that, which is a great lesson for me personally. There's no perfectionism in gardening. Okay. We're going to hear three questions back to back. They all are kind of in the same line, but we'll be able to take them in many different directions. This first one is from Sarah.
Listener Voicemail (27:27):
With my kids now in high school, I'm ever closer to having time to be able to resume and perhaps even find new hobbies and I'm so excited. And yet in these mothering years, I think I've forgotten how to do this. Any recommendations on how to reconnect to a sense of exploration and discovery, not just attitudinally, but operationally?
Anne Helen Petersen (27:49):
Great question. Next question comes from Rachel.
Listener Voicemail (27:52):
I'm looking for hobbies that don't involve money. I'm already the captain of team walking around and exploring random neighborhoods, which I think is fun, but so many other things end up having a financial commitment. Any thoughts?
Anne Helen Petersen (28:05):
And then this is from Srima and Melody's going to read it.
Melody Raoul (28:08):
I've been trying to find hobbies and I'm especially into crafts and gardening, but I find it hard to find something that really hooks me and I don't want to turn into a business. Any advice on how to find a good hobby and stay on track?
Anne Helen Petersen (28:20):
Okay. Let's start with the finding hobbies question. What recommendations do you have for someone who's trying to just figure out what they like?
Elise Hu (28:28):
Operationally. Okay. So this is practical. So in our neighborhoods, I know that there are rec centers and community centers that put out those booklets and they're still in print. They're like in newsprint and they have classes of all kinds and it can be self-defense, it can be pottery, it can be Korean or Spanish. Yeah. It
Anne Helen Petersen (28:51):
Comes in the mail. Yeah.
Elise Hu (28:52):
Yeah. Pickleball. I feel like that's a first place to peruse and those are very affordable. They tend to be like six weeks or eight weeks long and they're an opportunity to like be introduced to some potential hobbies that you wouldn't have otherwise thought of. That's one place my mind goes in terms of just like searching for things.
Anne Helen Petersen (29:11):
Also a great way to make some intergenerational connections, which I think is like one of the best things about hobbies personally. Dorie, what are your thoughts?
Doree Shafrir (29:20):
Well, just quickly to the intergenerational point, my tennis teams have people in their 20s and people in their 60s. We have grandmothers, we have single people without kids. It's racially diverse, ethnically diverse. We have queer players. It's a real cross section of people that even in Los Angeles, which is a very diverse place, I would not have met these people.
(29:54)
Because I have a six year old, most of the new people I meet now are moms. And there are moms on the team, but there's also a lot of people who are not moms. So I think that's one of the really cool things about doing social hobbies along the lines of what Elise was saying before. And then in terms of finding hobbies, I think just be open-minded. If someone invites you to do something that you've never done before, say yes to it. If you see something that seems interesting, check it out. Just try a bunch of things. I will say though, and I think someone sort of asked about this as well. I do see some of my friends who are trying out hobbies and before they even really get into them, they're buying a ton of shit.
Anne Helen Petersen (30:48):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (30:50):
And I think there's real sort of acquisition creep when it comes to hobbies. I don't have that personality, but my husband does. And so one of his other hobbies is golf. And back when he was working and had more money, he was buying so much golf stuff all the time, like clubs and towels and head covers and just so much stuff. And meanwhile I've been-
Elise Hu (31:17):
It's endless.
Doree Shafrir (31:17):
It's endless. And meanwhile, I've been using the same tennis racket for three years. I just don't care. Outfit story.
Anne Helen Petersen (31:27):
What about
Doree Shafrir (31:27):
Outfits? I found some very specific types of clothing that I like to wear and I have those and that's kind of it. I did an interview with the strategist a few months ago where I described my tennis style as beekeeper because I like to be fully covered up. This is true.
Elise Hu (31:50):
I can attest to this.
Doree Shafrir (31:53):
Unfortunately, there's just not that much cute tennis wear that is also very sun protective. So that aspect is also not really a thing for me. I'm someone who would rather spend money on a clinic or a lesson than buying more stuff. But I have seen this happen with friends who are like, "I'm getting into X." And they turn around and they've spent hundreds of dollars on equipment or whatever. And then a month later they're like, "Oh yeah, I'm not that into that anymore." So I would say if you know you have these tendencies, just try to be mindful of it. And for most hobbies, you don't need to go all in right away and buy all the stuff. No.
Anne Helen Petersen (32:44):
I see this all the time actually in the Dahlia groups where someone grows one Dahlia and then the next year they grow 80. And to be fair, I went from 12 to 300, but I was working with another person. But I feel like this is a really younger Gen X millennial habit of here's the thing I want to do. I don't have the time to learn how to do it or to like ... It's really hard to carve out the space to go to the class and rent the stuff and return the stuff.
Doree Shafrir (33:20):
Yes. And
Anne Helen Petersen (33:20):
So the easiest thing, even though it costs money, the easiest thing is to press a button and to buy the stuff.
Doree Shafrir (33:28):
I think that's such a good point.
Anne Helen Petersen (33:29):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (33:29):
And then you feel bad. It makes you feel shame. It's really hard. And I think it's really hard to realize that it's happening because you're kind of buying one thing at a time and then you turn around and you're like, "Oh, my whole living room is now filled with all this stuff." My garage
Elise Hu (33:47):
Is full of hockey
Doree Shafrir (33:48):
Here. What am I going to do with these beds? Yeah. And my husband also has ADHD and gets hyper fixated on stuff. And so I think that that is also just ... Again, it's just like something to be aware of. If you're like, "I'm going to get into knitting." And you turn around and you're ordering $100 schemes of yarn and it's just like, what is happening? So when I say try out a bunch of things, I think just like you can dabble without going all in right away.
Anne Helen Petersen (34:27):
Well, and I'm glad that you brought up the ADHD component because this is something I see a lot from readers is either people who have come to terms with it and been like, "I'm a dabbler and I love it and I feel no shame about it. " And I go from thing to thing. I try not to buy as much, but I like being really into something for one month and then not being into that thing anymore. But just see it in yourself and know that you can put up some guardrails around it. Totally. I can take that class and borrow some stuff. And the other thing is that hobbyists love to share stuff. Yes. Yes. They do. They want to share information. They want someone to just talk about it with all the time and they like, "Oh yeah, I have an extra tennis racket or I have an extra hoory hoory if you want to garden with me.
(35:15)
Come over. Let's do it. " If you want to get into something and you see someone in your life who does it, chances are so high that they want to talk to you about it and show you how to do it,
(35:28)
But have tried to dampen their light so that they're not annoying other people about talking about that thing all the time. So we talked about dabbling. What about free hobbies?
Elise Hu (35:43):
A lot of free hobbies you can kind of just pick up and do for yourselves, right? If cooking is a hobby, I mean, I guess you have to get, this is not completely free of shopping a little bit, but there's things that you don't have to take a class for or attend a group for. Where does your mind go on this one?
Anne Helen Petersen (36:02):
Well, I was just thinking this person who said they love exploring new neighborhoods, that sounds like someone who is super curious about finding new things. There are probably like city tours or if you go to the historical society, they're constantly doing walking tours of different places and you're going to meet weirdos there who are your same strain of weirdo and are going to like that sort of thing. Yeah. The historical society just generally is a trove of amazing hobbyists.
Elise Hu (36:33):
The Audubon, they do free tours or free hikes, especially for birders, but like not necessarily. You don't have to be a birder to go on any of the free Audubon
Anne Helen Petersen (36:43):
Walks. Yeah, exactly. Anything that's observational, I think is a great way to get started. And then you can get like further down that route in terms of like, "Oh, I want to learn a lot more about it. I'm going to check out this book from the library." Or like if you have like a Quilters Guild or a Crafters Guild, they often have stuff that you can rent or you can come into them and use it. Melody, didn't you just go in and use like the Big Arm quilting thing? Tell me about that.
Melody Raoul (37:15):
Yeah. I did operator training for the long arm quilting machine at this place in Kansas City. And so now I can finish my own quilts, but I mean, I still have to pay money to rent the machine, but also don't ask me how much money I've spent on this new quilting hobby.
Anne Helen Petersen (37:32):
But it's sustainable. You're going to quilt for the rest of your life, Melody.
Melody Raoul (37:35):
Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (37:37):
I also just want to encourage people to look into what their city recreation parks and rec departments offer. I know in LA, there's a ton of classes that are really inexpensive that you can take and try things out, whether it's like sports or knitting or various other things. And
Doree Shafrir (38:03):
If you're
Doree Shafrir (38:03):
A senior, there's even more stuff and a lot of it is free. But yeah, I think that that is one avenue to explore. The other, you were talking about craft guilds, but I know at least in LA, the public library has a lot of tools and other things you can check out that are often very expensive. I saw someone post on TikTok that they let you at the LA Public Library, you can print out on their very high quality printer. They allow you to print out a poster size print one a week. You can do that for free. Wow. So there's all this sort of weird stuff that you can just kind of like look into and a lot of it is very low cost or free.
Anne Helen Petersen (38:56):
Yeah. Also, again, bringing up if someone in your life is really into a hobby, like they have gear, they have stuff
Doree Shafrir (39:04):
That
Anne Helen Petersen (39:04):
They would love to light you also use. Next question, we've touched on this a little bit with like making something Instagramable, but I want to talk more about the larger scheme. So this comes from Kristen. How
Listener Voicemail (39:25):
Do you balance participating in your hobby and wanting to share it without being too online about it? I wish my Instagram was purely friends, joys and hobbies, along with accounts related to my own that I found because I love seeing other folks' hobby. It never annoys me or is too much and I want to share my own and also staying present to do the hobby requires not being on my phone.
Doree Shafrir (39:49):
Oh, so much here. What's your first thoughts?
(39:52)
My first thought is don't feel inhibited about posting constantly about your hobby. Doree started a newsletter about it. Yeah. I mean, I just sort of feel like if you are enjoying it and it feels like something you want to share, not everyone wants to share it. If you want to share it, go ahead. I think it's a really good way to find community. I've had so many people message me and be like, "Oh my God, I'm also on this journey."People I never would have known and that just felt really cool. And I will also say, I've had people ask if I'm going to monetize my tennis newsletter and I have just been like, "I know. " That sort of feels like taking it to a place that I, I don't know. And maybe a few years down the road, I will be like, "Yes, I will do this.
(40:40)
" But right now that just feels like adding a layer of stress to it that will ultimately not be worth it.
Anne Helen Petersen (40:46):
And really, I think intersects with a lot of the conversations we're having about that need to monetize. I mean, before like Buzzfeed, where Doree and I used to work together, before Buzzfeed started falling apart, I really resisted monetizing my newsletter because it was a place where I felt like I could write if I felt like it and I didn't have to ... It was a place where I could write without obligation. And I eventually had to find a different place where I could have a full-time job and had to monetize it. But for years I resisted that poll precisely because it changed the character of my relationship to it, if that makes sense. I love the point about being a beacon. If you want to post about it, post about it. People cannot watch your stories as much and then they won't show up for them.
(41:33)
Whatever. Who cares?
Doree Shafrir (41:34):
Totally, totally. And if a few people decide to mute you because of that, then like, okay.That aspect of the question, I just sort of feel like post as much as you want about it. The aspect of feeling like you're not present because you're always on your phone, I get that too. It's interesting, there's like a few women in LA who aren't on my team, but I know them just through like the league here and they're very active on social media, especially Instagram about tennis. They post every time they play, they post their outfits and I think they do it because that brings them joy. They really do enjoy posting about it constantly. And to me, I don't know, I just, I'm not like always taking pictures of our practices or our matches. I posted a little bit from nationals, but not like a ton. It's just like, for me, that's just not why I'm like playing tennis, but for other ... And I post about it sometimes, obviously, but like it's not all the time, but for some people it is and that's okay.
(42:51)
And I actually enjoy looking at their content. I like looking at their tennis content. I'm like, "Oh, this is cool. Oh, I'm glad you won your match." I'm just like, "Okay, this is fun," but not what I'm doing. And I do think they are a little bit more on their phones. I've played matches against them and I've noticed immediately after they're gathering the team for the team photo and one of them has a tripod and it's very like, "Okay, this is what we're doing."
(43:20)
And that's just not my vibe, but it can be other people's.
Anne Helen Petersen (43:27):
I feel like it offers us some time for self-reflection too on how we want our relationship to presentation, self-presentation, like all those things. It's just like an interesting reflection, the same way that posting your kids on Instagram is, right? Or posting pictures of you and your partner, whatever. I feel like I've reached an age where like, as you said, Dori, I can see someone living their life and posting in a way that makes them happy and it doesn't make me feel like I need to do that too. 100%.
Elise Hu (44:02):
Everyone has their own sweet spot on this, but I think the fact that the questioner is asking the question is great because you're reflecting on what your own values are, what your comfort level is, how performative you want to be, how present you want to be. Those are all valuable questions to ask.
Anne Helen Petersen (44:23):
Yeah.
(44:24)
I will say I created a second account on Instagram for the Dahlias because first of all, it's like a company now we're self-incorporated that involves two other people. So it needed to also involve these other people and it's also like a business. Our goal is to make enough money so that we can go on vacation together. I love that. Cool. But I know it's not like none of us are ... We all have other jobs. This is not our money making scheme. But sometimes people say to me, "I wish that you would post that Dahlia's more in the mainfield. I don't like it when people bifurcate that part of their lives into like another..." I don't want to have to follow five different accounts just to ... You know what I mean? And that made me think for a little bit. I was like, "I will post more Dahlia content to the main feed.
(45:17)
I thought I was annoying people, but like you said, they can just not watch that. That's fine." Yeah, you're an integrated human.
(45:24)
Live your life. Great. So we're going to keep this conversation going for ask and anything with some questions seeking specific advice about hobbies. This part of the show is just for paid subscribers. So if you want our thoughts on sticking with a new hobby, how to deal with all the stuff you accumulate during hobbies, or how to stop feeling guilty about taking time away from a hobby, head over to patreon.com/culturestudy and sign up today. For us to wrap up, what is something, what is your favorite kind of delight, like little moment of one of your hobbies that keeps you coming back to it?
Elise Hu (46:04):
It's the same thing that I want on my tombstone, which is all her friends became friends.
Anne Helen Petersen (46:12):
Yeah, that's really good.
Doree Shafrir (46:13):
Yeah.
Anne Helen Petersen (46:14):
Doree, what about you?
Doree Shafrir (46:16):
I think it is like realizing that I've gotten better. There's no real goal, but my original thought of like, "Oh, this would actually be more fun if I were just a little bit better." And then being like, "Oh, I got a little better."
Anne Helen Petersen (46:37):
That's really satisfying. Yeah. Totally. That's me and running for sure. And I've written about this a little bit, but also having that feeling around something to do with athleticism and your body when you're in your 40s, that feels awesome.
Elise Hu (46:55):
Yeah.
Anne Helen Petersen (46:56):
It's really good for
Elise Hu (46:57):
Saving off dementia
Anne Helen Petersen (46:58):
Too. No, I was never an athlete. I never thought of myself as an athlete and to have something that, that component in your life is really awesome. Totally. Sometimes when I wake up in the middle of the night and I can't fall asleep, the way that I self-soothe myself back is I think about my favorite Dahlia, just like a row of them. I just think about the bloom and that's so cheesy, but there's something I'm like, okay, my mind is fixating on something that feels like purely calming to me that is very away from my work and that allows me to escape from those intrusive thoughts, which are usually about work stuff for a moment. So that's one of my favorite things, falling asleep to the image of my favorite
Elise Hu (47:50):
Talk. Do you have a visualization? Yeah.
Anne Helen Petersen (47:52):
Thank you so much for joining me. If people want to find more from Forever35 work and they find you on the internet.
Elise Hu (47:58):
You can find us everywhere you listen to podcasts and on our website at forever35podcast.com.
Anne Helen Petersen (48:07):
And wait, Jori, I would be remiss if we didn't also mention your tennis Substack because it's been a similar opportunity.
Doree Shafrir (48:16):
My tennis substack is courtdate.substack.com. It is published intermittently when the mood strikes me, but- A great hobby newsletter. A great hobby newsletter. Exactly. You're going to get it when you get it. Yeah. You'll get it when you get it, okay?
Anne Helen Petersen (48:42):
Thanks for listening to the Culture Study Podcast. Be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts because we have so many great episodes in the works and I promise you don't want to miss any of them. If you want to suggest a topic, ask a question about the culture that surrounds you or submit a question for our subscriber only advice time segment, go to our Google forum at tinyurel.com/culturestudypod or check the show notes for a link. And if you want to support the show and get bonus content, head to patreon.com/culturestudy. It's five bucks a month or $50 a year, and you'll get ad-free episodes and exclusive advice time segment and weekly discussion threads for each episode. The Culture Study Podcast is produced by me, Anne Helen Petersen, and Melody Raoul. Our music is by Poddington Bear. You can find me on Instagram @AnneHelenPetersen, melody@melodius47, and the show @CultureStudyPod.