Episode 371: The Dark Side of Beauty with Arabelle Sicardi
Beauty writer Arabelle Sicardi joins Doree and Elise to discuss her fascinating new book The House of Beauty, which goes deep on topics like how beauty products are made, produced, and distributed around the world, including the connections between fragrance and fascism; hair and the empire of exploitation; and what it really means to live well and how that connects to biohackers and transhumanists.
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Transcript
The transcript for this episode is AI generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:18):
And I'm Elise Hu. And we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Doree Shafrir (00:22):
Welcome to the show. Today we have Arabelle Sicardi on the show. She is a beauty writer who has a new book out called House of Beauty that is a very interesting take on the beauty industry, one that I haven't really seen before.
Elise Hu (00:39):
It's kind of a take down, if you will.
Doree Shafrir (00:41):
I really enjoyed our conversation, so we will get to her in a little bit. Elise, how are you doing
Elise Hu (00:49):
All things considered pretty good. Ava turned 13 this week, so I now officially have a teenager. Yes. And instead of a party, she just wanted to go get hot pot as a family, so we all went for hot pot. We're lucky to be in one of the cities that has a Heidi Lau and Heidi Lau is the great hot pot place restaurant that has franchise locations, kind like D Tung does. So we went to Heidi Lau and then she wanted a shopping spree instead of a party because she was like, listen, don't birthday parties cost like 700 to a thousand dollars at least. And I'm like, Hmm, if I think about that. Yeah. And she's like, why don't you just spend it on me in a shopping spree? And I was like, no, because when you put it that way, I don't want to spend 700 to a thousand dollars, but maybe you can have a smaller figure and we can go on a shopping spree. So she's going to do that on Saturday and then, which means I guess I'm going to do that.
(01:54)
And then Rachel Goodwin was so kind, our resident celebrity makeup artist, Rachel Goodwin was so kind. She saved up a bunch of the swag that she gets that is teen appropriate, like Soul de Janeiro sprays and Drunk Elephant, the Dior lip oils that Ava likes and some Ilia stuff and saved all that for Ava. And Rob went over there and picked up the stash and Ava was like, oh my gosh, this hall, it's incredible. Where'd you get all this? And so huge thank you to Rachel for making Ava's birthday really special. That's fun. So yeah, I mean obviously I'm just trying not to be in despair about the state of the world, but overall, okay. I'm doing okay. How are you? What's happening?
Doree Shafrir (02:42):
I'm okay. There was a talk about executive function at my son's school, and it was mostly focused on how to build good habits around executive functioning in our kids. But I mean, the building of the habits starts with the parents. And so this was already something that I'd been kind of reflecting on just like how does our home environment affect Henry's mental health, his behavior, his outlook on life. And I'm just like, okay, really? Some things have to change. I already knew that. But just to have it presented in such a matter of fact way
Elise Hu (03:32):
And
Doree Shafrir (03:32):
Also a very actionable way, this ot, she wasn't just like, here's the theory behind it. She was like, here's what you need to do. It was very, very clear, practical and
Elise Hu (03:47):
Actionable. Yes. Good.
Doree Shafrir (03:49):
Very practical and actionable. A couple mom friends and I were there and we were all like, oh, that was very actionable. That was very actually helpful. Don't forget to send me
Elise Hu (03:59):
That handout. I also want to benefit from this.
Doree Shafrir (04:04):
You definitely will. Great. Just like I'll just share one little thing that she suggested that I'm definitely going to do, which is to have a little checklist for what goes in your kids' backpacks and have it in a luggage tag, like a clear luggage tag. And that way they look at the checklist attached to their backpack and they know everything that's in the backpack or that should be in the backpack. And I was like, I am also going to do this with my tennis bag. These are going to be things that are helpful for me.
Elise Hu (04:42):
Girl, at least you have a tennis bag. I'm just, I walk out the door carrying random things in my hands. Oh no, you need a tennis bag. You need a tennis, I'm going to put that on my Mika list for somebody else to get me. I do. Because I just carry stuff out the door. It's so funny. My children are more organized than I am. And I think part of it is because Ava has always been a classic Virgo. She has to-do lists. I've talked about how when she was four, she got really into making to-do lists for herself, but then as she got older, she decided to have prompts for her journaling every night.
Doree Shafrir (05:20):
So
Elise Hu (05:20):
On her wall, there were prompts for what were some highlights of your day, what could you have done better? All these things that she, and this is so Ava, this is not anything I've ever done. So she's very good about organizing all of her things, which then only shows what a mess I am in comparison. So then they get really frustrated with me like, pull it together, mom. Why don't you have, oh my gosh, your shit in a bag, or why are we late? And maybe it's because I think Maddie is good about checklists. So he has the girls on Sunday nights, he has a printed list, sort of like before you'd go to bed, do you have your water bottle somewhere ready to fill? Do you have your outfit picked out for tomorrow? Because he really wants smooth mornings because he doesn't, he has more anxiety and he gets stressed. Whereas me, I'm just like, well, it's a chaotic morning. That's normal. Yes. Oh my God. He's
Doree Shafrir (06:25):
Learned to manage it. My o really happy with Maddie's system.
Elise Hu (06:28):
Really? Yeah, it sounds like it. He has these systems and he keeps a spreadsheet of all sorts of important things that I might need to know for forms. Love how we have to fill out a bunch of forms at the beginning of the year, and he's like, please refer to our file for all of the information that you need for all of that and the insurance card. And so it's nice. It's nice to have somebody who's a little bit more on it for those sorts of things.
Doree Shafrir (06:55):
I love that. I love that. Yeah. I cleaned off my desk yesterday. I still have some more to go, but there was literally a pile of papers. Some of the stuff I was uncovering was dated 2023, and I was like, okay.
Elise Hu (07:16):
Wow. Yeah, it's been there for a minute. Hopefully it wasn't a bill or something. Hopefully it wasn't like, Hey, don't forget to renew your car registration
Doree Shafrir (07:26):
In 2023. No. But yeah, it was like, yeah, I was definitely like, okay,
Elise Hu (07:33):
I keep not wanting to pay a bill. And so it's just sitting there on my nightstand. I don't want to pay it. I sort of object to having to pay for it. But this isn't that. You're saying this 2023 thing is just there because it's just been sitting there.
Doree Shafrir (07:45):
I mean, I found multiple old planners that I had started. Whoops. I was like, oops. I did also find a couple of gift cards, so that was fun.
Elise Hu (08:03):
Oh, great. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (08:04):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (08:05):
Love that. It's like finding $20 in your jacket pocket, your winter coat or whatever. Good for you.
Doree Shafrir (08:14):
Well, should we introduce our guest?
Elise Hu (08:18):
Yes, I will do. The honors of introducing Bel Sardi, a writer and consultant who focuses on beauty as an art form, an act of care, and a tool of political possibility. Consider them a beauty world builder. They pen a beauty newsletter and have written for places like Allure L since Teen Vogue, the Cut, Google and Vogue business. They've worked on projects for tech companies for places like Ginkgo, Twitter and Airbnb so far. They've written two books, queer Heroes, a children's book on queer folks throughout history. And this new one that is coming out soon called The House Beauty, a nonfiction book on the beauty industry. And they run a scent centered creative collective called Perfumed pages and a nonprofit arts project called The Museum of Nails Foundation. Like we said, they're a world builder.
Doree Shafrir (09:10):
Very cool. So before we get to Bel, just a couple of reminders. Our website is Forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned on the show. We are also on Instagram at Forever35 Podcast. Our Patreon is at patreon.com/forever three five. If you want to hear more in depth conversations on things like what I learned from the OT at my son's school, you can join our Patreon and get our weekly casual chats that are just a little more freewheeling, I would say.
Elise Hu (09:44):
Yeah. I also have my crisis updates. Yes.
Doree Shafrir (09:47):
Oh, yes. Elise has her crisis updates. I mean, there's a lot happening over there. Also at the $10 level on our Patreon, you can get ad-free episodes of these regular episodes. So if you are not an ads person, then support us on Patreon. And it's kind of the same thing. You can shop our favorite products at shop my US slash Trevor five. Our newsletter is at Forever35podcast.com/newsletter. And you can call or text us at five nine one zero three nine zero and email us at Forever35Podcast@gmail.com. And here is Bel Bel. Welcome to Forever35. We are so happy to have you on the show.
Arabelle Sicardi (10:31):
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Doree Shafrir (10:34):
Yeah. Yay. Well, we start off by asking our guests the exact same question every time, which is do you have a self-care practice that you would like to share? And we define self-care very, very broadly. So whatever you think might fall within the definition, probably does.
Arabelle Sicardi (10:56):
I do have a self-care practice. I have several. I am obsessed with self-care, but right now I'm really enjoying lifting weights and I'm discovering that I am a little bit of a gym rat, so I do going to do Pilates. I do like going to do weights and swimming. And if I were not going to to the gym every other day, I do feel like I descend deeper into psychosis. So I need to be sweating. I need to be sweating.
Elise Hu (11:32):
What is your gym? What's kind of your gym vibe? Do you go to a place that's very sny? Do you go to a more of a y?
Arabelle Sicardi (11:42):
My local New York gym is full of octogenarians. I am easily the youngest person there, and it's incredible and inspiring. Love this because they're all not breaking a sweat, doing the lifting, and they're all at least 70 in my class, and I'm suffering holding five pound weight, being like, oh God, don't let me humiliate myself. It's awesome. It's awesome. They all have a backstory and I really enjoy that. It's not seen. And in LA I go to the typical fancy gym with neon lighting and everyone has an influencer deal at the local Botox clinic. So it's very different vibes. Very different vibes. Oh, for sure, for sure. So you are bicoastal. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (12:29):
How is that?
Arabelle Sicardi (12:31):
I mean, it's a new thing for me, and honestly, it's really fun. I do feel like I am embodying the dual income no kids lesbian dream currently. And that's fun. You recently got married? I did. In fact, recently get married. Congratulations, by the way. It was really nice. Thank you. Thank you. It was a small wedding at a little place in the Italy where we had our first dates. Wedding planning is a heterocentric
Doree Shafrir (13:07):
Nightmare.
Arabelle Sicardi (13:09):
I've learned a lot about family dynamics and how valuable it is to delegate as much as possible to professionals. So highly recommend hiring a wedding planner if you can afford it. Yeah, I think it's really important to maintain sanity.
Elise Hu (13:29):
What did you learn about yourself in all of this?
Arabelle Sicardi (13:32):
Oh God, that I have incredible taste and that I am a favored child of the universe because the things that I wanted to happen happened even when it seemed unreasonable. And the first expense for the wedding was actually the wedding dress. I found it on consignment exactly in my size, and it's a vintage Alexander McQueen. So I was like, oh, I don't have to do anything. And I didn't want it to be a huge deal, and I didn't even know if I wanted anyone at the wedding. We were very close to eloping, but the first thing that I found was the perfect dress, and then everything else fell into place and I didn't have to deal with trying to discover my own taste because everything kind of just built itself out from the dress. So that was nice.
Doree Shafrir (14:27):
Was this a dress you had in mind, or you just sort of saw it and you were like, oh, this is the dress?
Arabelle Sicardi (14:33):
Yeah, I just saw it and I got the dress. I got this dress in 2020 and I got it. Yeah, I got this in 2020, and we didn't have anything else planned for years because obviously the pandemic shut down. We're like, what's society going to look like? I had no idea what I wanted it to be. I think the wedding probably would've looked wildly different if it was a different dress, a different agenda, but it kind of embodies a lot of my personality. It has chain mail down the back, and I very much wanted to feel more like a vengeful princess than a collected perfect looking bride. I didn't have a hairstylist or anything. I did my own hair and my friends did my makeup, and it felt very me, and that was important to me. But yeah, liked it.
Doree Shafrir (15:27):
Five stars. Amazing. I love that. The dress, everything sort of fell out from the dress. You just raised your fingers in front of the camera and I noticed your nails. Wow. Could you just describe them for our listeners who might not be seeing them?
Arabelle Sicardi (15:48):
Sure. So these are a set actually inspired by my book cover. So I had my New York go-to nail tech key song who's mentioned in the book. She gets to shout out, she's woven to the chapter on nails. I had her just riff on a set inspired by the book cover, and we spent a couple hours over the weekend just catching up and gave her one of the first copies of the House of Beauty. And we just caught up about what the past couple of years have been because I knew she was going to be in the book as soon as I met her, and I had promised myself to give her one of the first copies. So it was really important to me that she get one of the first, and that she knows that her work has carried me through so many times in so many different places.
Doree Shafrir (16:45):
So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.
Elise Hu (16:56):
Talk to us about the House of Beauty. It comes out October 14th, so just around the corner. What should listeners know about it?
Arabelle Sicardi (17:03):
This is a book that feels extremely timely, unfortunately, to the state of America and how the state of the beauty industry so tied into the state of affairs on a global scale in terms of politics. When I describe the House of Beauty, I am typically saying that is a book about the beauty industry and how it's deeply entwined and invested in the politics of the world and to the crisis of care and how we mistreat each other under capitalism. So I don't think it's a light read, but it feel like it's an essential story of all of these ugly sides of the beauty industry in all of the different niches that exist within it.
Elise Hu (17:59):
I mean, the book forces us to confront so much of the awfulness of the industry and the history of it. I know you've always been into really delving into the history of various tools or practices or procedures, and you go through how Chanel was acting as a Nazi spy, the child labor involved in sourcing beauty products and packaging the deforestation and environmental costs of so much of the industry. But there's also your personal narrative that's weaved in throughout. And of course there's so much that you like about beauty practices and enjoy. How did you grapple with all of the paradoxes? Because I obviously constantly do the same.
Arabelle Sicardi (18:43):
So many years of therapy, so many years, so many years. Shout out to my therapist. She is really an unofficial book editor of this experience. I am so used to having a split sense of identity around the beauty industry that it doesn't feel stressful anymore. Maybe I've just acclimated to acknowledging that I can love something that I hate and hate something that I love, and both are true emotions and both are fair to have. And it's like shadow work. You must confront that which feels ugly or unresolved and frightening and all of these other things. If you don't confront it, it just gets bigger and more powerful. And so doing this work and really examining all these difficult conversations, it really taught me so much about my own sense of self, my own morals, ethics, integrity, the parameters of curiosity that I navigate my life with.
(19:52)
And also it really taught me how to be a better reporter in terms of understanding. I wanted to have long-term relationships with many of the people within the book, and I wanted to have them understand that even if they were treated as disposable or expendable within a very exploitative system, their story and them as a person, they were invaluable and they should not be disposed of. And I wanted to build trust because I do think that so much of the time writers doing trend reporting or whatever in the beauty industry, they don't really truly value and respect nail artists or the craftspeople creating looks for celebrities or on a daily basis. They're not treating them as artists, they're asking them how they made a celebrity hot or whatever. But a lot of the times they don't get any credit and stories. And a lot of the times when I was doing my interviews throughout the years, the first couple of interactions were always kind of bad. They were distrustful because they'd been approached for reporting before or asked to do nail sets or something for free for influencers. And they didn't really trust me as a person. They didn't know me. And if I wanted to really tell the story of the industry, I wanted them to know that they are a main character in the industry. They're not a big player. And so that understanding how to really build a community with not just my sources, but these people within my life was really, it was really eyeopening. I really loved the experience.
Doree Shafrir (21:40):
Could you just sort of walk our listeners through the eight chapters in your book, just kind of give a brief overview of what the book is and why you chose to focus on these particular themes?
Arabelle Sicardi (21:57):
Yeah. So I'll give you some insight onto why it's even called The House of Beauty, and that might explain it too. So one of the original frameworks for the book was actually going to be physically, it was going to be architecture. So each story was essentially its own room, but that wasn't really working and it was a little too on the nose. But they are all kind of interconnected stories of different spheres and niches within the beauty industry at large. So the book opens up with, if I remember correctly, it is a choose your own adventure. It's really a choose your own disaster
(22:34)
Of the different ways that beauty products are made, produced and distributed around the world. And it walks you through real life reporting and stories pulled from the news relating to how beauty products are made. After that, you can then read about the history of Chanel number five, which is one of the most successful perfumes ever produced. It is an icon of the fragrance industry, and it is an exquisite perfume. Despite my professional hateration in these pages, I would never besmirch the juice. It's still beautiful today. But the Chanel chapter was an origin story, and the book kind of built itself around my obsession with the connection between fragrance and fascism because the beauty industry in particularly fragrance is such a touch point of culture and commodity and how we introduce ourselves into the world.
(23:41)
And Chanel herself is also obviously huge in fashion. And I come from a fashion background and the house of Chanel, despite Karl Lagerfeld's having passed away is still like this prestige, the biggest of the big, the most respected, no one says no to Chanel kind of thing. And I was always obsessed with the history of Chanel as a person and what her perfume represented. The other chapters break down the connection between the nail industry and war, and specifically Asian American immigration to the United States and hair and the empire of exploitation and connections we have to each other within the hair industry and hair economy. And I also hang out with biohackers and transhumanists and people obsessed with living forever by any means necessary. So we cover a lot of ground.
Elise Hu (24:46):
I reread the Future chapter actually this morning because I read your book a while ago. Thank you for sending it to me a while ago, but
(24:55)
Because I recently ran into Brian Johnson at a party who you mentioned, who you mentioned, yes, the guy who wants to live forever, the one who thinks he's him little. Yeah. How was that? Oh, well, the big observation about Brian Johnson that I shared with Dore and the listeners was that I had interviewed him in 2019. This is before he decided to be a transhumanist, and he was just working on brain computer interface. So he was doing the brain implanted devices essentially. And then he got into this immortality thing. But since I saw him last until last week, it looked like he had aged a decade. He looked like the oldest immortal man, which just shows you how this boomerangs back into itself.
Arabelle Sicardi (25:51):
Maybe the transfusions aren't working with his son anymore. Well, yeah,
Elise Hu (25:54):
Talk a little bit about it because the chapter is called Near Death is the Father of Beauty. What did you learn? You go to a body hacking convention. What did you learn about that? What all is considered body hacking these days? And then where did you land after spending time with these folks?
Arabelle Sicardi (26:13):
So contextually, I went to this conference I think in 2016 before we knew anything about this dude. And before a lot of public consumption had knew what the word longevity. Yes.
Elise Hu (26:29):
There
Arabelle Sicardi (26:29):
Wasn't velocity, blah a plus,
Elise Hu (26:31):
And David Sinclair and Peter Attia and stuff,
Arabelle Sicardi (26:33):
Yet, no, this was early adopters of biohacking technology, stabbing themselves with genome experiments in their garages. So when I say early adopters, I mean legally a lot of these people were not allowed to be doing what they were doing through official means and a lot of transhumanists and biohackers. I do consider there to be a distinction, and I'll explain that they would be doing experiments out of the United States. They don't want to get yelled at for experimenting on themselves frowned upon. But I was interested in spending time with transhumanists biohackers, people that just were really focused on either living forever or reaching maximum optimal performance as human beings. Because I had this gut feeling that it had so much to do with the pressures of capitalism and their fear of death and aging, and those are very human universal fears, but they just go about confronting them in a very obviously specific and radical way.
(27:46)
And I wanted to actually understand the connection between these fears and how they might intersect with the future of the beauty and wellness industries. And now we can see that they're absolutely intertwined. And we got longevity spas popping up. 23rd Street has Home Depot and AI beauty clinics now. The ship has sailed. We are on the ship. But it's weird because I mean before Forever Man, as I call him, existed, the USB brain memory stuff that he was working on before this, that was also a DARPA project that was a defense project for the United States. And DARPA was actually at this conference and they walked us through the potentials of this. And when I was at this conference, I was both entertained and a little heartbroken every single minute because they were so hopeful and curious and genuinely very pleasant, playful people. They very passionate about their own and I mean a little libertarian, but whatever, I can hang out with you.
(28:58)
You just be nice to me. I want to know more about you. They were just really curious, exploratory people. But at the same time, there was just this huge blind spot in the actual conversations with lived people with disability. There was all these conversations about genome experiments and finding ways to live healthier or live forever, but there weren't a lot of speakers that were actually disabled and required assistive devices and stuff. It was people that approached these things voluntarily. And it brought up a lot for me emotionally because I entered this space in this context, having more of a disability justice community within my immediate friend group, and my dad is also disabled in that particular chapter, has so much to do with my dad and my understanding of what it means to live well, and it kind of just broke my heart. And these biohackers, a lot of the most famous ones, the ones with the most resources, stewarding all of these experiments. They do not suffer in the same ways an ordinary disabled person or chronically ill person does, especially in the United States because they can throw money at their problems. Like Forever Man can spend 2 million a year on all of these different things because he's terrified of aging, but they're kind of elective
Elise Hu (30:41):
Curiosities for
Arabelle Sicardi (30:42):
Him, for him. And if we were able to dedicate as much passion, drive, curiosity and solution making to the everyday access issues for disabled people and chronically ill people, this country would be a lot better off. But we still have wheelchairs being broken in airports by the dozens every single day. And you're still penalized as a disabled person if you take a job and you lose your health insurance. These are very real issues
Elise Hu (31:15):
Systemically. Why live forever when we haven't helped improve society for everybody to live better? Just to live well in the time that we have.
Doree Shafrir (31:27):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (31:28):
Okay. Let's take a break and we will be right back.
Doree Shafrir (31:37):
Arabelle, I want to kind of switch gears a little bit because in your last chapter you talk about how you decided to go to cosmetology school, and I'm wondering, did you finish or how is that going? What have you learned?
Arabelle Sicardi (31:54):
I'm still in it technically. The next semester starts actually right as book tour starts. So I have absolutely no idea how I will be doing both in person training and doing a national book tour. We'll see how that shakes out. But I have been in it for the past couple years doing a couple classes every semester at local community college. Shout out to Santa Monica College. What's up? Yeah, we love community college and accessible education. Yeah, so I am still in cosmetology school and I wanted to do it because I wanted to just know the access issues and the education given to nail technicians and cosmetology professionals in this day and age in person, I don't plan on taking clients. I have absolutely no customer service skills and no time, but I was doing it for research really. And it's been really fun and also humbling because the instructors one have been taking care in providing service work in the beauty industry longer than I've been alive. And they have seen the industries change so wildly, and they're kind of blase about the amount of long-term chronic illness that beauty professionals eventually end up experiencing. A lot of the times, just like that ship has sailed for them. They're like, oh yeah, we didn't know how bad it was for a respiratory systems until recently, or We didn't know this was bad for hair until recently, and I've been doing it for 40 years. So yeah, no wonder I have lung cancer. And you're like, okay, cool. And you're still teaching us. Okay, nice.
(33:52)
So hearing firsthand from True Veterans about how the industry has changed and how people sacrifice their own bodily health in order to take care and provide beauty services to other people, oftentimes people that disrespect them, it was a really interesting conversation to have with the instructors and with other students and to understand that the other students in the class are from wildly different backgrounds. Some of them are like, this is their third or fourth career, or it's going to be their second or third job. And having these types of conversations about the interaction between being a mother and being a service worker and kind of making the math, math, it was so enlightening.
Elise Hu (34:45):
So towards the end of the book, you share your more affirmative vision for beauty, and I'm interested in it, of course, because it is a vision of something more communal and political and really just community centered. I also wish for this, and I came to a similar conclusion at the end of Flawless, and so tell us about the industry that you would want to see and the way that we ought to be engaging with these products, procedures, and practices.
Arabelle Sicardi (35:22):
It was really hard to write that last chapter because it's really hard after going through all of those other stories to leave without a hugely bitter taste in my mouth, Merriam Kaba, the community organizer and educator, her most famous quote is Hope is a Discipline. And I thought about that quote constantly. It was my meditation exercise when I was going through this book trying to figure out a way to not drown in the despair of what I was learning. And my conclusion is that we need to have a fundamental change in how we care for each other before we can ever find real institutional change or resolution. And I don't know if that's possible right now, but that doesn't mean that it won't be in the future. And I would never allow myself to let the defeat win personally because I'm not so important that my own defeat should be a determining factor to the final result. I kind of surrendered to the reality that I, myself and my generation might not see the results of the sacrifices and solidarity and all of the good work that so many people have done continue to do. But that doesn't mean it's not worth doing
(36:50)
And that it's not vital.
(36:52)
Seeing the final results of community organizing and all the small wins that groups around the world, young and old do on a daily basis to try to make sure that the climate's protected, that unions are protected, that we have labor rights, that there's more sustainable practices around packaging and product regulation. And this thing, if we were to say it doesn't matter because the world is collapsing and we just leave it at that, we would be doing the job of those who oppress us. It's not up to us to stay defeated forever. It's our job to do the work and hope that it works out. And if it doesn't work out for us individually, okay, that's a heartbreaking moment to experience. But at least for me, I've come to terms with the fact that another world is possible and not guaranteed. And my job as a human being who cares about other people is to make sure that I'm making it a little closer every day to being guaranteed for somebody down the line. That's all they want.
Elise Hu (37:58):
Yeah, I mean, all social change has happened as a result of little actions by a critical mass of people. And I think that we forget that. And the whole episode with Jimmy Kimmel was a good reminder of that actually over the last week or so. So I feel like even the most cynical take on hope is that is what choice do we have? If we are going to go on, what choice do we have? So yeah, I like that. Before we let you go, is there anything trendy? You've been a beauty writer forever. Is there anything trendy that you're super into right now? Any product? I know this sort of boomerangs back, it's like, it was so funny. I went on book tour and I talked about all these similar ideas and then people would be like, oh, but what K beauty stuff are you into?
Arabelle Sicardi (38:47):
I know, but I was like, wait, that
Elise Hu (38:50):
Wasn't, wait, that wasn't the point. That's
Arabelle Sicardi (38:52):
What you got from it. Amazing. Yeah.
Elise Hu (38:55):
But I do kind of want to ask because of course, just to hold the polarities here, what are you into?
Arabelle Sicardi (39:01):
Of course, right now, my deepest indulgence is I don't wash my own hair. I am getting a weekly blowout.
Elise Hu (39:10):
Oh, nice.
Arabelle Sicardi (39:11):
And I actually, I just moved money around, so I was going to less therapy so I could go get a blowout. I was like, this still counts as mental health, but it's therapeutic.
Elise Hu (39:21):
Yeah.
Arabelle Sicardi (39:22):
Oh my
Elise Hu (39:22):
Gosh. It feels so good to get your hair washed intended to by someone else.
Arabelle Sicardi (39:26):
It does. And that has been my guilty pleasure. But in terms of other stuff and beauty, I love going around to different places in New York right now and just walking in and getting a random service. This other day, I went to this massage place in Chinatown that offers a two hour massage, two hour foot and body massage for 99 bucks. And I'm like, okay. So I got some, some, and then I came out of the massage feeling like I was beautifully macerated meat. I was like, I've never felt so tender in my life. I feel so at peace, and I slept so well. So shout out to
Elise Hu (40:09):
Chinatown. Yes. All those foot massages. So good.
Doree Shafrir (40:12):
I love the idea of just going around and trying out different places and different services. That's also such a New York thing where you can just kind of wander in. And I miss that. I miss that about New York.
Arabelle Sicardi (40:27):
Yeah, the art of wandering. It's beautiful. It's beautiful.
Doree Shafrir (40:31):
Yes. Well, Arabelle, where can our listeners find you if they want to read your book or maybe see you on book tour, tell us all the things.
Arabelle Sicardi (40:42):
The easiest way is perhaps my Substack, which is ArabelleSicardi.substack.com. But I will be at, books Are Magic in New York and Skylight books in la and these are also indie bookstores that have scented bookmark pre-orders, which will be super fun. And there's a couple other cities we're confirming, but you can find me online on almost every social media platform because I am unfortunately deeply online. So online, yeah. Yeah, just find me. Same name everywhere.
Elise Hu (41:17):
Digital Detox is not your self-care.
Arabelle Sicardi (41:20):
Yes. No, I wish. My God. Yeah. No, I'm online. So online.
Elise Hu (41:25):
Alright. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Arabelle Sicardi (41:28):
Thank you, Bel. Thank you for having me. You're the best.
Doree Shafrir (41:35):
It is funny for me to talk to all these people that I used to work with at Buzzfeed because I knew Bel 10, 12 years ago. Yeah, Alex Laughlin. It doesn't seem like I worked with her that long ago, but it was actually a long time ago. So it's kind of crazy to see these people again, but I think she's thriving.
Elise Hu (41:59):
Yeah, it's a very dense book. I really think everybody should read it. And then all the essays focused on a specific topic and everything. So yeah, especially for our audience, y'all are interested in this stuff. So definitely check out the House of Beauty. Alright, intention zone.
Doree Shafrir (42:19):
Intention zone. So last week I was talking about strength training. I haven't done that much more of it. Mostly because there's been a lot of tennis this week. I need to figure out what is a doable tennis strength combo because I don't want to neglect the strength. I mean, part of the reason why I really wanted to get back on the strength training train is because I want to avoid injury. So I'm going to keep working on that. And then this week I also am going to keep working on all this executive function stuff.
Elise Hu (42:58):
Well, there's so many actionable steps as you mentioned. So you can, so many steps,
Doree Shafrir (43:04):
So many actionable steps.
Elise Hu (43:05):
Yay. Alright, well we will support you in that endeavor. And I definitely want to take a look at it too. And my kids will be so proud of me since they seem to be doing better than me. My intention last week was to upcycle more. I have the package ready to send off to Sammy of Rob's jeans, and then I have made a pile of clothes that I'm going to put in a big threat, what are they called? Those trashy? Yeah, trashy is that service where you have to spend $20 for a bag, but then they'll take, and then I guess you have to ship it, but I have a pile prepared for that. And then I found some street, I found some street wear to bring to Crossroads because they rejected the jeans but asked for street wear. Street wear.
Doree Shafrir (43:56):
Okay.
Elise Hu (43:57):
Yes. And then I also put some items on Facebook marketplace and I haven't used Facebook Marketplace to sell before, so this is my first time to use it and we'll see how that goes. I have bought a knee scooter, like when you're injured and you have to scoot around.
Doree Shafrir (44:14):
Yes, I do know exactly what you're talking about.
Elise Hu (44:17):
I got one of those on Facebook Marketplace.
Doree Shafrir (44:19):
You know what? Honestly, that seems like the perfect use case for Facebook marketplace. Something that is probably overpriced. Correct. That you need for a very specific and amount of time. It's not something that you're going to be using forever all the time, hopefully. Right. Hopefully. You know what I mean? So yes. I love that you bought that on Facebook Marketplace. That's perfect.
Elise Hu (44:43):
Yeah, so we'll see if any of my side tables and random things from the back house sell. And then my intention this week is to digitize old tapes. But because as our casual chat listeners will know, we had a big media loss this week. And so I'm going to take actual old mini DV camera tapes and CDs and maybe some VHS if the VHS is still standing and not corroded and see what happens. See what's on those tapes. It costs a lot of money. It's like $30 per cd, $40 per tape. But I'm going to eat the cost. I'm going to do it so that it's there and things don't get worse for me in terms of losing my memories that are on hard, hard media.
Doree Shafrir (45:26):
And to learn more about that, like we said, you can listen to our casual chat. It's a tragic tale.
Elise Hu (45:32):
That's right. Yeah. Teaser. Teaser.
Doree Shafrir (45:35):
Alright everyone, thanks so much for listening. Forever35 is hosted and produced by me Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Samee Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast. And we'll talk to you soon. Thanks.
Elise Hu (45:50):
Talk to you next time.
Doree Shafrir (45:51):
Bye.