Episode 363: Stretching the Power of Fashion with Nikki Ogunnaike

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Written By Forever 35 Podcast

Editor-in-Chief of Marie Claire magazine, Nikki Ogunnaike, shares with Doree and Elise her love of stretching, the role of magazines in today's fractured attention landscape, and her insights on fashion trends, body standards, and generational differences in the workplace. They also dive into their love of reality TV, why trying your best is never cringe, and the importance of attempting to regulate your emotions. 

Plus, Doree updates Elise on how her tennis sectionals went and how she thinks she played.

Transcript

 

The transcript for this episode is Ai generated.

Doree Shafrir (00:11):

Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.

Elise Hu (00:17):

And I'm Elise Hu. And we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

Doree Shafrir (00:22):

Welcome to the show.

Elise Hu (00:24):

Yes. Welcome back listeners, and welcome into our new listeners. We have a great interview today with the fashion editor, Nikki Ogunnaike, and that's coming up a little later, but first door I need to hear the update. Listeners need to hear the update about your tennis team and the big sectionals tournament.

Doree Shafrir (00:47):

The big sectionals tournament. So it was at a high school in Orange County. It was at Marina High School in Huntington Beach, California. And it was one of those, it felt like what I imagine a Texas high school to be like. It was just enormous. There were 16 tennis courts. There was a huge pool. There was football field, there was a soccer field. And not to mention we got there. And so pretty big USTA tournament. There was also a huge water polo tournament happening of high school girls all weekend. There were soccer games going on the whole weekend, people were running on the track. I was like, and also it's the middle of the summer. All these people are,

Elise Hu (01:42):

I didn't even know we were in water polo season. I thought water polo season was a totally different season.

Doree Shafrir (01:47):

I mean it was a full on club water polo tournament.

Elise Hu (01:52):

Wow.

Doree Shafrir (01:53):

And I mean, they were loud. Also, water polo is such a hard sport. It's so physically draining. Anyway, whatever. So I played, okay. I had maybe the most frustrating match I've ever played. It was a singles match.

Elise Hu (02:15):

Yeah,

Doree Shafrir (02:16):

It was very windy. Oh

Elise Hu (02:19):

Yeah.

Doree Shafrir (02:19):

Really windy and that

Elise Hu (02:23):

Threw me off.

Doree Shafrir (02:24):

Call

Elise Hu (02:24):

It off, I think above a certain wind speed they can call it off.

Doree Shafrir (02:29):

Right. They did not call it off.

Elise Hu (02:32):

Oh no. Okay, so the ball's bouncing and flying in ways that you can't expect

Doree Shafrir (02:37):

Ball. Yeah, in crazy ways. And the woman I played hit very soft, so it was hard for me to generate pace against her. I felt like my balls were just going out plus the wind, so I could not, and I won the first set, but it was like a battle and then I just kind of fell apart in the second set. And then we played a tie break and I really could have won that tie break and it did not happen. And I was just so annoyed with myself. I was like, she was not. You're just like, ugh. She obviously was the better player for that match, but she was not a good player. Do you know what I mean? Just a

Elise Hu (03:22):

Snapshot in time. Yeah, that match is just a snapshot though. Really.

Doree Shafrir (03:28):

Yeah.

Elise Hu (03:29):

I don't think it's a measure of your overall skill.

Doree Shafrir (03:32):

No. But then my doubles partner and I played a match and we won pretty easily, so that was great. But then the next day we had another doubles match and we, I don't know. I don't know if it was like I hadn't really warmed up, at least for the first doubles match. I was super warmed up because I just played singles, but we didn't really have a chance to warm up because the other levels were in their finals, so they weren't letting anyone warm up on the empty courts. They usually did. And I don't know, I felt like we weren't in sync. I felt off and we lost kind of badly. I think we lost 6 2, 6 4 or something like that, and it didn't feel good. It didn't feel like a good match. I didn't come out of that match being like, well, they won, but I played my best. I came out of that match being like, wow, I really fucked that up. You know what I mean?

Elise Hu (04:30):

You can't beat yourself up these things. That's so tennis too. I've been watching so much tennis, going Indian wells and just watching it on TV V and you have good days and bad days. There's people who are top level, top 10 ranked players who just are off. It happens not to diminish that, it's annoying.

Doree Shafrir (04:51):

It was annoying and we'll talk about this a little later, but I'd said my intention was to not focus on winning and losing, but it was hard not to focus on that. And I also kind of forgot how just mentally draining sectionals is. It's a lot of pressure. So we came really close to making the final. We didn't make the final by one match, so then I also felt bad about that. I was like, oh, if I just won that stupid singles match that I lost the tie break 11 nine. It was very close and I was like, oh, I felt like I let my team down. I was just so annoyed. But we did. So we came in third and it was very close and I don't know how the rest of my team felt about how they played. I think some of them felt good and some of them didn't feel great, but it was a good experience.

(05:56)
Everyone was psyched to be there. And yeah, it was very windy. Everyone was talking about the wind. Everyone was like, oh my god, the wind. And I was talking to one of the other captains and she was like, yeah, I think the teams that are winning or the teams that are figuring out how to deal with the wind. And I was like, yeah, I felt like it just wore me down. So yeah, I don't know. I'm feeling a little like, oh, maybe it's good that I'm taking this break right before the other sectionals that I'm playing in.

Elise Hu (06:36):

Oh yeah, you have more sectionals coming up. So tell me why There's two

Doree Shafrir (06:41):

Sectionals again. So when you have A-U-S-T-A rating, you can play at your level, but you can also play up a level. And so I'm on two teams at two different levels and they both made sectionals great. So I will also play in this other sectionals that's up a level. And I think with that one, it's like, okay, it's up a level, it's sectionals. It's like the best people at this level above me, so I feel like I'm just going to go into it with whatever happens, happens. I don't have high expectations for

Elise Hu (07:17):

Myself, but then again, that could be the one. Having lower

Doree Shafrir (07:20):

Expectations. Yes, having lower

Elise Hu (07:22):

Expectations and actually help you play loose. And if you are playing loose and not tight, that could be the difference maker in some of these matches. Tennis is so mental, so

Doree Shafrir (07:33):

Mental, it's so mental. And I think that definitely affected me. I definitely put a lot of expectations on myself. And so for the first time in a long time I was like, oh, this doesn't feel fun. And that's kind of a bummer because tennis is supposed to be my fun outlet.

Elise Hu (07:54):

Are you going to write about this in court date, your substack? Yes, I am. I think you write is the plan and then your reflections on tennis. Other readers have applied to other sports or other areas of their lives, and so I'd love to read about how you reflect on all of this.

Doree Shafrir (08:14):

Thank you. Yeah, that is the plan.

Elise Hu (08:18):

Alright, well go team. Anyway, thanks and I'm so glad. Ultimately this is about team and your team came together and y'all did a hard thing and doing a hard thing together is so bonding and so definitely walk out of the season with your heads held high on that front for sure, because think about how close that you all have become and I think that was really the value that you found in tennis over these past

Doree Shafrir (08:43):

Couple years. For sure. For sure, for sure. Elise, should we introduce our guests?

Elise Hu (08:51):

Yes. Excited too. Nikki Ogunnaike is a seasoned fashion editor and writer who is currently the editor in chief at Marie Claire Magazine. Perhaps you've heard of it. She lives in New York City and she graduated from the University of Virginia. She's Nigerian American, she's a style expert. She cut her teeth at publications such as Vanity Fair in style, glamor L and gq. And she was also digital director at Harper's Bazaar. She really schooled us in what's going on in fashion and if you're curious and interested in these topics, you're really going to enjoy this conversation with Nikki.

Doree Shafrir (09:28):

Before we take a break, just want to remind everyone that our website is Forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mention on the show. We are on Instagram at Forever35podcast. You can join our patreon at patreon.com/Forever35. Our favorite products are at shop my us slash Forever35. Our newsletter is at Forever35podcast.com/newsletter. And maybe most important of all, please call or text us at (781) 591-0390. We love getting your texts, your voicemails. Our email is February 35 podcast@gmail.com and those are what keep the mini episodes going. So if you have questions, comments, concerns, need advice, have recommendations, text us, call us, email us. We want to hear from you. Alright, we'll be right back.

Elise Hu (10:21):

We'll be right back with Nikki.

Doree Shafrir (10:29):

Nikki, welcome to Forever35. We are thrilled to have you on the show.

Nikki Ogunnaike (10:34):

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Doree Shafrir (10:37):

So as you may know, we start off all of our conversations with our guests by asking them if they have a self-care practice that they are willing to share, and this can really run the gamut.

Nikki Ogunnaike (10:50):

Totally. I would say that my most consistent self-care practice is working out in one way or another. So I'm a pretty avid runner. I just ran a half marathon in early June, so that generally is a lot of running, but I also take a stretching class every Sunday, which sounds like an old lady sort of thing to do, but it is very good for mobility and so I love doing that. But yeah, working out consistently is the biggest sort of self-care practice.

Doree Shafrir (11:21):

I want to hear more about this stretching class.

Nikki Ogunnaike (11:24):

I know, right? It really is. Exactly. So it's a 45 minute class that is just purely stretching and foam rolling and it sounds obviously something that you could do on your own, but I find going to the class and knowing that I have to go every Sunday morning keeps me consistent.

Doree Shafrir (11:45):

Also, there's no way I would ever stretch for 45 minutes. Yes, I could do it on my own 45 minutes, but I would do it for maybe five.

Nikki Ogunnaike (11:55):

Yeah, and you realize in that class, or I realized in that class just how long 45 minutes is and it's like, oh. So I've been doing one to two minutes and really thinking I was doing my big one with that, but the 45 minutes is actually what you need.

Doree Shafrir (12:11):

Awesome. How long have you been doing this? Sorry, Elise, I have more questions about the stretching class. Okay. Elise is great. Moving

Elise Hu (12:19):

On quickly. Yeah, man, I feel bad because I clearly am not as interested in stretching as I should be.

Nikki Ogunnaike (12:27):

I think everyone should be interested in stretching. I got to a point where I was like, no, this is the key, how everyone has longevity practices, whatever. This is actually the key. It has made such a difference in my life. I've probably been doing it now consistently for a year. That was my question. So it really has made such a big difference, not just in my running practice. Obviously those two go hand in hand together, but when I do my stretches on my own in the morning, it's usually like 10 minutes. But carving out that 45 minutes just for myself has made such a big difference. It makes me consider how much I am sitting and if my hips are really tight, that helps with that hamstrings, all of it. It really, even in my wrists, because we get into the wrists, you're doing all sorts of things that are really just helping across the whole body and you just realize, oh, my forearms are tight because I'm always holding my iPhone. That's probably too massive and heavy for my hands to begin with. So all of that stuff, just having that dedicated practice really brings just an awareness to the body. Elise, it sounds

Doree Shafrir (13:32):

Like it could help with your dead butt syndrome.

Elise Hu (13:34):

Yeah, I know I have something called dead butt syndrome.

Nikki Ogunnaike (13:38):

I need you to tell me a little more about that.

Elise Hu (13:41):

So I didn't know that it was actually called this, but my glutes are so weak and it's that medial glute or whatever that it then extends to your entire back chain because then your knee is overcompensating, possibly your lower back is also overcompensating, and so I get tightness in my sacrum and then overuse injury in my right knee and it's all because of my dead butt syndrome.

Nikki Ogunnaike (14:05):

Your sleepy butt.

Elise Hu (14:06):

Yeah,

Nikki Ogunnaike (14:08):

You got to wake up. What are you doing? Are you doing squats? Are you

Elise Hu (14:10):

Stretching? What's happening? So you have to do a lot of clamshell and then the fire hydrants and all of those things which are fire hydrant

Nikki Ogunnaike (14:17):

To a donkey kick,

Elise Hu (14:18):

All of that. Such a drag. Such a drag. Alright. Well, Nikki, besides being a stretching enthusiast, you really have such an impressive resume in media and magazines that you've worked at over the years. Currently, EIC at Marie Claire, which is why we're having you on. I want to ask you because my entire adult life has been in this media apocalypse or has felt

Nikki Ogunnaike (14:46):

Like it's been also started working in 2007, so yes, I

Elise Hu (14:49):

Know. Well, how do you think about the role of magazines and now Marie Claire specifically given the way attention has become so fractured?

Nikki Ogunnaike (15:01):

I mean, I think magazines, when I think about Marie Claire and when I think about the magazine portion of it, it really is just a small portion of it. So we do print twice a year, March and September, but we also have a podcast that I host Nice Talk. We have a newsletter that I write. We have the website, marie clear.com. We have live events, our power play series. It's just a small piece of the brand and I think it's the piece of the brand that really stretches sort of the way that I think in a different way. I don't think that any piece is more or less important. I will always have a love for print. I would love to do more print in the future. I think it's valuable. There is something to be said for having a tangible sort of keepsake of the brand, but it's a portion of what we do now. Got

Doree Shafrir (15:51):

It, got it. Yeah, that's such a difference from the mentality or just the way the world was. The media world was when I started, when you started, and it's kind of dizzying to think about the rapidity of the changes.

Nikki Ogunnaike (16:06):

I worked at Grayden Carter's Vanity Fair and thinking about how much he did during that time. This guy was starting restaurants and he was z was doing so much.

Elise Hu (16:16):

Oh, interesting.

Nikki Ogunnaike (16:17):

Yeah, and so he to me kind of was an example of what a modern day or what a now editor in chief does, so it's not just the magazine, it's a little bit of this, it's a little bit of that, and so I equate sort of what we're doing now. Not exactly obviously to great and Carter scale, but it is that sort of like you're flexing in a bunch of different ways. It's not just about the print product that comes out monthly.

Doree Shafrir (16:42):

Yeah, yeah. That's a really good way of thinking about it. In your role, you get to kind of be a real arbiter of style and set style trends and reflect on style trends, and so we're wondering what are you into right now when it comes to fashion and style? What do you feel like is played out when it comes to fashion trends right now?

Nikki Ogunnaike (17:09):

Yeah, I'm really, really excited about Michael Ryder's. Celine. It just debuted a couple days ago. Michael Ryder is from dc. I'm from Virginia, so I have a special place in my heart for people who are from the DMV.

(17:22)
I think that his designs were just so beautiful to see. They're obviously high luxury, but there was an approachability to it. So I looked at it and I was like, oh, I could make this work for me. I can figure out how to sort of piece this together. Obviously the most beautiful versions of a khaki pant or in a leather jacket, but he really has a really interesting way of looking at what modern luxury means now and it's not quiet luxury or that sort of thing that we went through. I'm very over that, so I'm happy that we're going in this new wave of luxury that he's sort of on the forefront of. I'm really sort of worried about this proliferation of skinny that is happening lot. I spend a lot of time on TikTok and just the sort of shrouded conversation around eating disorders is really terrifying to see it takes me back to the bad part of the two thousands and yeah, I really hope that fashion doesn't fall for that. Again,

Elise Hu (18:26):

That's what I was going to ask you because we are in this time where we've gotten far enough away from the nineties and even Y 2K where there's this reassessment and reappraisal about how bad the nineties were, especially for women and the kind of corniness of it. That's the Atlantic critic Sophie Gilbert wrote about. We had her on earlier this year. So where are you on the return of the late nineties aesthetic?

Nikki Ogunnaike (18:56):

It's tough. I remember in the 2000, 2007 when I first started working and we had older editors and they were like, oh, I'm not going to do this again. I've already seen this come through. I feel now that I'm the older editor that's like, I'm not going to do this again. I've seen this come through. You're not going to get me into low-rise jeans. You're not going to get me hating the size of my butt. I'm actively fighting against all of that. You're not going to clown me the way you clown J-Lo for having a size six body, and it's just sort of stuff that we have to actively fight against. And so that's what we're trying to do at mc when we think about the women that we cast, the women that we tell stories about the way we talk about fashion, so it's not about real womens bodies. I hate that term because every woman's body is real.

Elise Hu (19:44):

Is it real? Right.

Nikki Ogunnaike (19:46):

If you say so, I'm actively trying to fight against language like that and really just be cognizant of the fact that it is a very slippery slope and we have to be the people who fight against it.

Elise Hu (19:59):

Are there more people like you who have lived through that period, more women of color in places of power now? Do you feel like there's more deciders that can speak up and push against some of these norms?

Nikki Ogunnaike (20:16):

I think so. I think there are definitely more women of color and then I think there are just women who were in this space in the early two thousands who were plus size or didn't come from affluent wealth or whatever. There's just a bunch of the pot of people who are deciders right now does not look the same way that it did in the early two thousands, and I'm very thankful for that. Or I should say the late two thousands and I'm very thankful for that because it just helps when we can all band together and just be like, no, we don't want to see that anymore. Yeah.

Doree Shafrir (20:49):

So what do you think are going to be the things that 20 years from now people are going to be like, oh, I should have kept my,

Nikki Ogunnaike (20:57):

Oh, that's such a great question. I should have kept my Oh, that's interesting. I don't know because I feel like we really are in a time right now when it comes to fashion where everything in the early two thousands, all the good stuff is coming back. So a cropped leather jacket, make sure you hold onto that or Bermuda short will always be in, make sure you hold onto that. I really wish that I had kept some of my slightly higher heels. I feel like I've gone only sandals, only sneakers and I could dress it up a little bit more. So I wish I kept some of those. I think that people are going to want to return to dressing up a little bit. We're sort of coming off of the strictly athleisure mind or the sort of athleisure trend, and I think that people are going to want to start getting dressed again. So anything that sort of enables that will be helpful.

Elise Hu (21:59):

There's think that athleisure trend is true for a lot of us, especially those of us here in Los Angeles or on the coasts, but then you also see the rise of MAGA makeup and that kind of dressing right. That's really over the top in a way that even hearkens to the eighties or something.

Nikki Ogunnaike (22:20):

I know Lauren Sherman, who's a podcast host, always talks about her Republican blowout, which I think is very funny. It's a certain way that she likes to get her hair blown out. It's like big and bouncy curls and that sort of thing. I don't know. I think that when we think about sort of the bodiness of it all, the overt wealth displays of wealth, I think people will sort of look at that and be like, maybe that's kind of gross. I dunno. Maybe we should be going after just clothing that is well-made, whether it has a logo on it or not, maybe we don't. One thing I do think that we're going to look back and highly regret is dupe culture, so this idea that everyone has to have everything you can buy, all of the poorly made sort of dupes of what is high fashion. I think we're going to look back on that moment and be like, whoa, did I really need to buy all that stuff or could I have just been happy with either buying it secondhand or not buying it and skipping out on it, taking time to really decide if you want it. I think we're going to be looking more so not necessarily about the things that we're buying, but our shopping habits and really be like, I dunno about that guys. Maybe that wasn't the best.

Elise Hu (23:40):

Yeah,

Nikki Ogunnaike (23:41):

Both of you're like, yeah,

Doree Shafrir (23:43):

Yeah, I know. Because it's so easy to get caught up in that. It's like, oh, well I can't afford the $4,000 bag, but oh, this $128 bag maybe,

Nikki Ogunnaike (23:57):

But do you even need the bag or is there something? Exactly.

Doree Shafrir (23:59):

Right, exactly.

Nikki Ogunnaike (24:00):

Can you just clean out your, clean your closet? I've always found that just getting into my closet and reorganizing things, I'm like, oh, okay. I have the pieces or I have a version of the piece and I can put it together.

Doree Shafrir (24:12):

Beauty wise, what are your hero beauty products, the ones that you use all the

Nikki Ogunnaike (24:19):

Time? I'm super into merit. I love Merit Beauty. I think that the blush that they use, I want to find my makeup bag is actually in front of me. What is this called? The little balm that they have. Have you guys seen these? Yeah, it's the blush balm, but you can also use it as, you can use it right here on your cheeks, but you can also use it on your lips. This is an apre, which I think is a beautiful sort of berry color I use this year round. Love it. Nars. I'm just going to take you guys through my makeup bag if that's fun. This is awesome. You're doing a live What's in my makeup bag? What's in my makeup bag? Loving it. This is my makeup bag.

Doree Shafrir (25:03):

So cute. Thank you. Oh, that's so cute. It's a little Louis Vuitton.

Nikki Ogunnaike (25:08):

Yeah, S model collaboration pouch. So cute.

Elise Hu (25:11):

And a small pouch so you don't carry much makeup.

Nikki Ogunnaike (25:14):

I don't carry much makeup. I will say that as I've become busier in my career because of my career, I have cut down on makeup, so I don't do a lot of beauty. It's very five minute face. So nars, radiant, creamy Concealer is a go-to of mine. I've been using it forever. Forever. I can't imagine switching to a new concealer. Prove me wrong if I should, but that's always been a favorite of mine. My favorite beauty drugstore lip gloss is the Knicks Butter Gloss. Yes,

Elise Hu (25:45):

Love.

Nikki Ogunnaike (25:46):

Absolutely obsessed. It's like four bucks.

Doree Shafrir (25:47):

Yes,

Nikki Ogunnaike (25:48):

This is in P Prey Lane, but I have it in every single color. This is in every bag of mine. What else is in here? That's the good stuff. Usually the mascara that I'm wearing right now is Buck Butum mascara. It's really good. I don't like anything that's too, thankfully I have long lashes. My parents gave them to me. It's great. So I don't have to do anything crazy with my lashes, no lash extensions. Even if I didn't have lashes, I would never do lash extensions. I feel like that just is a slippery slope that many of my friends have fallen down. They highly regret. So none of those for me, and then I just fill in my brows with this nars sort of like black graffiti eyeshadow actually,

Elise Hu (26:33):

And

Nikki Ogunnaike (26:33):

That's that simple

Elise Hu (26:35):

Great, great five minute face. Do you ever have major changeups? Have you discovered anything new through your work because of Marie Claire that you're like, okay, I'm going to have to work this in because it is that great?

Nikki Ogunnaike (26:51):

I have, so the Laroche Poe sunscreen is the best. Everyone should get it. If you're ever in Paris, get it there. It's cheap. It's very dror, but it is truly one of the best sunscreens that I've ever tried. It comes out white, but it does not leave a cast on my skin, which is all you could ever hope for when it comes to sunscreen. So I love Laroche Poe. Dr. Rose Engleton is my dermatologist and she has started her own line of products. She has an incredible vitamin C serum that helps remove dark spots, like works wonders. Love it. What else am I wearing right now? I haven't gotten it yet, but I really, really want to try merits tinted moisturizer that's supposed to be incredible and they're supposed to have a real, to be a really good wide sweeping range of things, of different shades. Those are my beauty ones. Yeah.

Elise Hu (27:52):

Yeah. Great. Fantastic. Okay, let's take a break and we will be right back.

Doree Shafrir (28:04):

I'm curious sort of along those same lines, I'm assuming you're kind of like millennial, you're a millennial and that you probably work with a lot of Gen Z people.

Nikki Ogunnaike (28:18):

I love my Gen Z people.

Doree Shafrir (28:19):

Yeah. What have you taken from the Gen Z people in the

Nikki Ogunnaike (28:25):

Office? I have to say I am very fortunate that every gen zr I work with has taught me in spades how to draw boundaries, but in a good way, not I can't do that. It's never any sort of, I can't do that because I don't want to. It's just sort of like, Hey, I can't do this right now, but I'll get to this when I can. And the way that they speak up for themselves, I wouldn't have dared to dream to do that in the early two thousands. You guys know what it was like. It was like, alright, I guess I won't have lunch for lunch today and I'll just work through it and I'll work until midnight and that's just fine. Or I won't get paid for this internship and I guess that's fine. I'm essentially paying to work here. And maybe it was, that was just the way that, I don't know. That was just the time and I think that Gen Z has done a really good job of making millennial managers specifically consider what they want to the generational curses that we want to break from our bosses, from our Gen X bosses or whatever. So what good we want to take and what bad we want to take. And I think that's what's really special about being a millennial boss is that we do have that opportunity because we know the before times,

(29:43)
But we also know what we hated

Elise Hu (29:45):

And

Nikki Ogunnaike (29:46):

We realize that we don't have to replicate that if we don't want to.

Elise Hu (29:49):

It's hard though, with this kind of generational battle because I had a lot of exer or boomer bosses coming up and they were sort of like, Hey, be tough because I had to be, they didn't want to be more generous to the next generation that might have different norms and mores and expectations because they were like, well, it was hard for me. I had to deal with all this sexism, so you should too,

Nikki Ogunnaike (30:11):

But how toxic is that?

Elise Hu (30:12):

Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. That's my whole beef.

Nikki Ogunnaike (30:16):

That's such a terrible way of running an organization. How does that help? Who does that help? You're on a power trip and I guess that helps you specifically, but that all leads us sort of with the short end of the stick moving

Elise Hu (30:35):

Forward.

Nikki Ogunnaike (30:36):

That sucks.

Elise Hu (30:37):

We should be better ancestors than that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Doree Shafrir (30:41):

Ancestors. We're breaking these generational patterns

Nikki Ogunnaike (30:47):

And that is real, and it's a daily sort of, I wouldn't say struggle, but it is a sort of thing that you have to think about I think as a millennial leader where you don't fall back into those patterns. Thankfully I didn't have terrible bosses, but I saw them for sure, and there was yelling and there was making people cry and sure, you want to be able to express yourself, but you also realize that nobody wants to be on the receiving end of that, and so you have to do better regulate your emotions. I always say I don't have children yet, but I imagine that this is what raising children is. As a millennial parent, you're trying to do better than your parents.

Elise Hu (31:32):

It's so funny you just said regulate your emotions because I'm always telling my kids, learning how to control your emotions is probably the most important thing,

Nikki Ogunnaike (31:40):

But imagine you're a millennial parent and it's like, okay, I have to learn how to regulate my emotions. I

Elise Hu (31:44):

Know I, I often say that I'm like, sorry, mama's got to go have a temper tantrum, having trouble controlling my emotions. Yes,

Nikki Ogunnaike (31:53):

Exactly. You can't take it out on your kids, but you're trying to do better and it is just a daily practice of trying to do better.

Elise Hu (32:00):

Exactly. Exactly. Well, Nikki, you are a podcast host too, so we wanted to ask you a bit about that hosting Nice Talk as you mentioned for Marie Claire, what are some things that have stuck with you from your conversations because you have talked to so many really influential and interesting and dynamic women.

Nikki Ogunnaike (32:19):

I love hosting Nice talk. It has been such a revelation to me now I understand why everyone wants to be a podcaster. This is a fun job, it really is. Or I get to talk, you guys get to talk to amazing people for an hour and sort of pick their brain about all the good things. I've been really fortunate to have everyone from Lena Wa and Coco Goff was just on the podcast a couple of weeks ago to Chay Nicholas, who's this incredible astrologer, Paige DeSorbo of Summer House Fame was a favorite of mine and it's really been Gabby. Wendy was really, really great. I got her just like love her. She's so funny.

(33:02)
I think that on the podcast we talk to women about money and power and style and how those three things intersect in their lives and just learning about the various ways that you can have conversations or how these things intersect in these women's lives. When I talked to Lena, wait, she told me how she doesn't have imposter syndrome and she never has had imposter syndrome, and I was like, oh, I don't hear women say that often. And she was unabashed about it. That's incredible to hear. And those sort of light bulb moments happen all the time throughout the recordings of the podcast. I just had Charlotte Palamino on, she's the founder Do's Skin, and I asked her about this proliferation of celebrities being transparent about their plastic surgery, what her thoughts about it, and she said it was a recession indicator and it's like, that is hysterical. And why do you think it's a recession indicator so we can get, because transparency is sort of an old school trick when people need to be relevant, then all of a sudden they become transparent again about the sort of things that they're doing. It does feel

Elise Hu (34:07):

Very

Nikki Ogunnaike (34:08):

Early two thousands sort of in that way.

Elise Hu (34:11):

Okay.

Nikki Ogunnaike (34:13):

Yeah. So yes, it's those moments where you're just like, oh, I'd never thought about it that way, or that it really makes you reconsider things. That's what I love about podcasting.

Elise Hu (34:22):

Yeah,

Nikki Ogunnaike (34:23):

Coco, I'm so jealous. Coco Golf is incredible to be, we talk to her, so poised

Elise Hu (34:30):

And what is she like, 21, 22 maybe. Maybe.

Nikki Ogunnaike (34:35):

It's

Elise Hu (34:35):

Crazy,

Nikki Ogunnaike (34:36):

But it was so funny to talk to her about obviously tennis, but she's super into fashion, so we talked about her MIU kits and what it was like to be on set and a model with mu. We talked about her collaborations with New Balance and how she wants to push her style when she's wearing her stuff on the court. She's such a dream and really was quite generous with her time and she's a kid, she's young, and so it was really nice to hear from her.

Doree Shafrir (35:03):

So I saw a TikTok that she posted within the last few days where she was watching Love Island with a bunch of people and Nicole, Andrea five, and we know that you

Nikki Ogunnaike (35:16):

Are a reality TV fan. The thing about reality TV that I always say is that it feels like a car wash for my brain, so I can just go in. I love that. Watch my little shows. I always say that when I watch Love Island, I'm checking in on my Sims. It just is a time to really turn off my brain and not have to think about all of the things with work in life and all of that. You can just sort of turn it off.

Elise Hu (35:44):

Are you a Survivor fan? Did you get into Traders?

Nikki Ogunnaike (35:47):

Oh, I was a huge traders fan. Number one. I do not think I would do well on Traders. I actually sat next to Dylan Efron last week at a dinner and I was like, Hey, I need you to tell me everything. I was like, did you feel like you were in an insane asylum on the show? And he was like, yes. It was absolutely crazy. He was like, by the end, I was begging to work out there. I was there for a month. You don't get to talk to your family or your friends and you're just in your brain the whole time. It's crazy.

Elise Hu (36:21):

Wow.

Nikki Ogunnaike (36:22):

I know. He's so nice though. I loved, he really indulged all of my questions even though he did not have to.

Doree Shafrir (36:28):

He genuinely seems like a lovely person,

Nikki Ogunnaike (36:32):

So

Doree Shafrir (36:32):

I'm glad to hear you say that.

Nikki Ogunnaike (36:33):

He was showing me videos of his dog on the beach, frolicking. It was very sweet.

Doree Shafrir (36:39):

I mean, he has sort of golden retriever energy. Totally.

Nikki Ogunnaike (36:43):

Totally.

Doree Shafrir (36:44):

Yes,

Nikki Ogunnaike (36:45):

Very much so.

Elise Hu (36:46):

If you were to be on a reality show, which one do you think you would be on or want to be on?

Nikki Ogunnaike (36:51):

Oh, that's a good one. I don't think I would win traders, but I would want to be on traders. I think I'd want to be maybe on Big Brother.

Elise Hu (37:02):

Yeah,

Nikki Ogunnaike (37:03):

I think that's one Big Brother is nice, sort of is like love. No, it's sort of love island a bit where you just spend your time sitting around and talking, but then every once in a while there's a challenge and then America gets to vote for who's the best. I think I'm a pretty good leader as well, so I could probably corral people to get behind me and who we need to kick off or whatever. I would not do well on Survivor though. I don't do bugs. I don't know. I could not forge for my own food. I'd be like, take me off. Take me off immediately. Would not

Doree Shafrir (37:36):

Do well. If you were on traders, would you want to be a trader or faithful?

Nikki Ogunnaike (37:41):

I think I'd want to be a trader, honestly. I think I could f my way through think I'd be able to lie. I think if I were a trader and we had to sit in that round table and just get it wrong time, after time, after time, I would just be like, cut the tape. I don't want to do this anymore. I'd be like, get me out of here. No one is paying attention. Oh my God. Yes. Yes. And I could never do housewives. I could be a friend of On Housewives that I would love to do.

Elise Hu (38:13):

Oh yeah, like a secondary character.

Nikki Ogunnaike (38:14):

Totally.

Elise Hu (38:15):

Yeah. Those folks seem like they're having a good time.

Nikki Ogunnaike (38:17):

Golden. Nothing really happens to them. They're usually the person that gets to come in and they're the person that gives the side eye to the camera. They're like, we don't really know what's going on. Would love to be a friend of, but I don't think I could be a main housewife,

Doree Shafrir (38:32):

Which franchise?

Nikki Ogunnaike (38:35):

Great question. I could probably do New York. I mean obviously I live here so I could do New York. I don't think I'm or Sharp enough to be on Atlanta. Those girls really, the one-liners are just incredible. They're an iconic sort of franchise.

Elise Hu (38:53):

I'm so glad we went down this little sojourn. Who knew? You knew the Pantheon so well.

Nikki Ogunnaike (39:00):

I didn't, Andy, listen up. I could be a bartender on watch What Happens live and I could also be a great friend of,

Doree Shafrir (39:09):

Yeah, I feel like given your job, I feel like they could make that happen.

Elise Hu (39:16):

This is not that far off for you. This is not a far off dream. Yeah, I feel like getting

Doree Shafrir (39:20):

On watch what happens live. That's not crazy. I know. Let's put that onto the universe.

Elise Hu (39:25):

Yeah, we got to put it out there. Let's manifest it for manifest. Manifest it for me. All right. And Nikki, before we let you go, just because it's 2025 and a time of chaos, we'd love to get your advice or what you've been saying to younger people about getting through, given the state of things, state of the world right now.

Nikki Ogunnaike (39:45):

Oh, that's such a great question. I really do try to practice realizing that you can only control your response to things. It's so easy to get whipped up and it's so easy to doom scroll and feel hopeless and feel like you can't make a difference. And you see when people are like, there's a listlessness, there is a sort of nihilism, but I find that really sort of troubling and disturbing. I think that we really have to, as I've said, sort of actively fight against these things. We really have to control what we can control, and I do believe that's showing up for your community, volunteering, really being thankful about the way that you participate in your community and the types of stories that you're telling your consumption of media and what you are sharing or what you're allowing to come into your orbit and really just realizing that you can be an active participant in your life

Doree Shafrir (40:45):

And

Nikki Ogunnaike (40:46):

You should behave as such.

Doree Shafrir (40:48):

Yeah,

Nikki Ogunnaike (40:49):

What a great

Doree Shafrir (40:49):

Antidote. I love that because it is so easy to just be like, Ugh, it's all so terrible. I'm just going to go into my little cocoon and hide. Yeah, and I love your outlook on this.

Nikki Ogunnaike (41:01):

I think so, and I just telling somebody the other day, I think that there is a sort of trend in thinking that trying is bad and that you shouldn't try. You should not be cringe, but I don't agree with that. I think that trying your best at something is admirable, even if you fail. At least you tried this very inspirational speech, which I did not mean it to be, but I do think there's something to be said for really trying and pushing yourself to try and knowing that even if you don't sort of achieve what you wanted to achieve, at least you dared to try.

Doree Shafrir (41:38):

Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Well, Nikki, it was such a pleasure to get to talk to you. I wish we could just kind of gab for the rest of the day, but I guess you have to get back to your important job. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. Yeah, this was really fun. This is great.

Elise Hu (41:59):

Thank you, Nikki. And we are back with the intention zone, but let's check in on last week's intentions first. Dorie, you alluded to this already, so you go first.

Doree Shafrir (42:10):

I did. I said I was going to try to not focus on winning and losing, and that was easier said than done, quite honestly. You're really feeling the pressure to win and make nationals, and I definitely put a lot of that pressure on myself, so I don't think I really succeeded in this intention this week. I just want to enjoy my time with family

Elise Hu (42:36):

And we want you to too. What a great opportunity to be back with your brother and sister and the cousins being together is going to be cool too. My intention last week was to stretch. I did try and stretch a lot more though I've been bicycling as I've been in Aspen, and so I have new tightness. So even though my stretching addressed the tightness from last week, now I have to adjust my stretches and then this week the kids are back from sleepaway camp, but I had to leave right after they got back, so I really haven't gotten to spend much time with the girls. So I guess my intention mirrors yours. Mine's also to enjoy time with family, but just to enjoy time with family in la.

Doree Shafrir (43:24):

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Great. Well thanks everyone for listening. Forever35 is hosted and produced by me, Doris Shafrir and Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Samee Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partner's Acast. Thanks everyone. Take care.

Elise Hu (43:41):

We'll talk to you next time.

Doree Shafrir (43:42):

Bye.

 
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