Episode 362: To Know A Relaxed Woman with Nicola Jane Hobbs
Doree and Elise speak with Nicola Jane Hobbs, author The Relaxed Woman, about what reclaiming rest actually looks like outside of naps and baths, the importance of relationships in your ability to relax, and why being a relaxed woman is less about what we do and more about how we approach the world.
Plus, Doree and Elise chat about being stretched vs. stretching and the ongoing relevance of the Black Eyed Peas’ “My Humps” to their lives.
Photo Credit: David Myers
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Transcript
The transcript for this episode is Ai generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:17):
And I'm Elise Hu. And we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums. For any of our new listeners, I just want to say this is a Monday episode. This is a full episode. We have two kinds. We have Monday episodes and Wednesday episodes. And Monday episodes are full episodes, which is to say we chat at the top of the 45 minutes or hour that we spend together. And then most of the episode is an interview with a very special guest. And then Wednesdays, we have many episodes, and I'm only saying this because we might have some new listeners who are joining us this summer. And Wednesday episodes are my favorite kind because we get to take audience questions that people like you call in with, text in with, write in with. And those episodes are really kind of all over the place depending on what kind of questions that you write us about. People have written in about more serious topics like miscarriage and friend breakups, and then they've also written about dish towels. And my dilemma in which my daughters keep stealing my charging cables and more ephemera.
Doree Shafrir (01:29):
Yes,
Elise Hu (01:30):
But welcome in The water's warm. We just want to welcome any folks that are joining us for the first time and welcome back to all of our listeners who have been riding hard with us for many years.
Doree Shafrir (01:39):
Yes, yes, yes. Just stretching you just sigh deeply.
Elise Hu (01:46):
Yeah, no, I'm stretching. Podcasting. We've been podcasting hard. We've been podcasting hard. Yes. I'm just creaky. I'm getting creaky. At the end of our episodes, we do an intention, and I'll just preview my intention's going to be about stretching. It's going to be about stretching. I need to stretch.
Doree Shafrir (02:11):
Yeah. Someone I played tennis against recently was saying that every Sunday she goes and gets stretched at stretch lab, which is
Elise Hu (02:24):
What a dream.
Doree Shafrir (02:25):
I know. I was like, I'm intrigued.
Elise Hu (02:30):
How expensive is this? Because
Doree Shafrir (02:31):
If it
Elise Hu (02:32):
Is around the cost of a brow wax, I'm doing
Doree Shafrir (02:35):
It. Well, I looked it up, I had to sign up for an account and then of course they texted me right away and I was like, oh, you're so annoying already. But they do have a first time user deal, but then they really, I think it seems like they really are pushing a membership kind of thing. These are their memberships. This is probably, this is applicable to Los Angeles. I don't know how much it costs in other cities. So you can get 4 25 minute stretches per month for $209. So like 50 bucks. A little more than $50. Yeah. Four 50 minute stretches per month is $349. 8 25 minute stretches per month is $359, and then eight 50 minute stretches is $649. Or you can buy 3 25 minute sessions for $179 or a single session.
Elise Hu (03:34):
Wow. This is getting very confusing. It's very confusing. This's a lot of math. Yes. But it sounds like the basic one is about 50 plus dollars for 25 minute stretch. So you're paying somebody else $2 per minute to stretch you. To stretch you, which I don't think that I would buy a membership for. I mean, I would just do it every once in a while if I could do one-offs, but I'm sure the one-offs are like $75 or something. So that's too much.
Doree Shafrir (03:57):
The one-off 25 minute is $65.
Elise Hu (04:00):
Yeah, seems like a lot. I know. And the thing is, if you get pt, which I have done years of physical therapy, they my shoulder, they stretch you. Yeah. So if you can get a prescription for PT from your doctors for your various muscular skeletal joint issues.
Doree Shafrir (04:18):
Yes. That's such a good point.
Elise Hu (04:18):
PT will do it and insurance will pay for it. So there's that. My PT offers reformer Pilates as well, therapeutic Pilates. And so you're also getting Pilates when you're doing it.
Doree Shafrir (04:30):
I just haven't therapeutic Pilates A
Elise Hu (04:32):
Yes.
Doree Shafrir (04:34):
Yes. I like this. I like this.
Elise Hu (04:37):
And insurance should cover it.
Doree Shafrir (04:39):
Yes, exactly. Exactly.
Elise Hu (04:43):
But yeah, so I'm just kind of creaky. And then I don't think I've updated the listeners. Everybody get your mammogram, get your preventative mammograms. I went to get my mammogram, everything was fine in my left boob, but then in my right boob, they're like, come back, because there seems to be some density. So I went back last week and then I got another follow-up mammogram on my right, boob plus an ultrasound. And they found two things. One thing that is not that worrying, the other thing that we don't know, so there's a little bit of question marks around, so one thing was a cyst, which is just a fluid filled cyst, which they're not. They're like, whatever the other one is a little massive tissues, not massive. Like mass of OF. Yes. And they're like, we don't know. It's like a little lump of something and it's underneath your nip, and I wouldn't be able to feel it. I can't feel it, but so it's small, I assume, but they have to biopsy that, so I'm going to get that biopsied in a couple of weeks. So fingers crossed, I am not that concerned. I don't think I need to be that concerned just yet. I don't have a family history of breast cancer. And my mom actually did have some lumps, benign lumps in her breasts after breastfeeding. So
Doree Shafrir (06:11):
There's history of lumps.
Elise Hu (06:13):
That's right. We have an episode title folks, history of Lumps, history of Lumps. You can take that literally or figuratively. But she also had something called a lipoma, which is like a fatty tumor, like a tumor of fat, I think. Okay. That was the size of a sweet potato next to her spine. That seems that had to be removed. Oh yeah. It was huge. Yeah. That seems like it would be showed uncomfortable me after I got out of anesthesia and it was big, the doctors were a little scared about that one. It was so close to her spine, and this was in her fifties, and so we all went to Taipei. The whole hug family went to be there just because it was like, well, this could be a dangerous surgery, but because it was a lipoma and not cancer, it was very clean margins. They could just cut right around it. It wasn't scraggly edged, it wasn't jagged edged. So they got that right out. So my mom has had some lumps removed, and I'm hoping that my lump is similar to her lumps, but we really won't know until I guess Midgut. So send your thoughts and prayers that this lump is not a bad one.
Doree Shafrir (07:30):
Okay.
Elise Hu (07:31):
Yes.
Doree Shafrir (07:32):
That makes me think of the Black Eyed Peas song.
Elise Hu (07:38):
Whatcha going to do with all your lumps? All your lumps? Yes.
Doree Shafrir (07:41):
Yeah,
Elise Hu (07:42):
Yeah. The song is my humps, I think circa Circa what, 2003 or something?
Doree Shafrir (07:49):
It was 2005. And there's a lot of talk of my lovely Lady lumps, but then there's also my hump. My hump humps and lumps. They talk about both. Oh, boy. And junk in your trunk. Yes, in the trunk. This is quite Who wrote this Black eye
Elise Hu (08:13):
Pea?
Doree Shafrir (08:14):
No, I know, but who wrote it? Who is responsible for this? Abomination? Abomination? Oh, it was written by Will.
Elise Hu (08:26):
Wow.
Doree Shafrir (08:29):
It was originally written for the Pussycat Dolls, but it ended up being recorded by the Black Eyed Peas.
Elise Hu (08:37):
Okay. Okay.
Doree Shafrir (08:40):
The more,
Elise Hu (08:44):
As you can tell, we don't plan out what our catchup chats are going to be at the beginning of our episodes, so they can really go in any direction. We don't even bullet out. It's not like, oh, maybe I'll talk about this and you'll talk about this. Nope. Yeah, no, it's 100% organic that we landed here at my
Doree Shafrir (09:03):
Humps. I did not know that we would be talking about my humps in this episode, but that's what happens. Well, Elise, should we introduce our guest?
Elise Hu (09:17):
So I don't know if you saw it. You probably did because it was a super viral Instagram post in the fall of 2023 that started with the line Growing up, I never knew a relaxed woman. And then the writer, Nicola Jane Hobbs goes on to say, successful women. Yes, productive women, plenty anxious and afraid and apologetic women, heaps of them, but relaxed women at ease. Women, women who aren't afraid to take up space in the world, women who prioritize, rest and pleasure and play. Women who give themselves unconditional permission to relax without guilt, without apology, without feeling like they need to earn it. I'm not sure I've ever met a woman like that, but I would like to become one. I would like us all to become one. And from that idea that she put out into the world came a book titled The Relaxed Woman, reclaim Rest and Live, an Empowered Joy-Filled Life by the writer of that Instagram post Nicola Jane Hobbs. And that is Who is on today. That's who we've got to talk to.
Doree Shafrir (10:23):
Nicola also focuses on the social and psychological barriers that prevent women from getting the rest they need. And she loves supporting women overcome these barriers through coaching and workshops. She recently founded The Relaxed Woman, a community devoted to supporting women to recover from stress and burnout through coaching and workshops. She loves handstands baking, growing her own vegetables and exploring nature with her family. She lives in Brighton in the UK by the Sea, and she is at Nicola Jane Hobbs on social media. And before we take a break and chat with Nicola, just a reminder, we do our interview episodes on Mondays and on Wednesdays we have our mini episodes and our website is February 35 podcast. We have links there to everything we mention on the show. We're also on Instagram at FE 35 podcast. We have a Patreon at patreon do com slash Forever35. So if you want to hear more of us, we do a casual chat every Friday. We do monthly pop culture episodes. There's a lot happening over there. Our favorite products are at Shop my US slash fe five. We have a newsletter at fe five podcast com slash newsletter. And these mini episodes live and die by your texts, emails, and voicemails. So you can call or text us at seven eight one five nine one zero three nine and email us podcast Nicola, welcome to Forever35. We are so excited to have you on the show today. Welcome, welcome.
Nicola Jane Hobbs (12:07):
Thank you so much for having me.
Doree Shafrir (12:09):
Yeah. So we start off by asking our guests about a self-care practice that they have. I feel like your whole book is sort of about self-care in a way, but I'm wondering if there's anything that you do in particular that you would consider self-care right now?
Nicola Jane Hobbs (12:28):
Oh, yes. So I think at the moment what I'm really focusing on is slowing down. So just slowing down everything from how quickly I do the washing up to when I'm walking to even I think sometimes we are very busy and our thoughts are so quick in our minds, so just slowing down thinking, slowing down, breathing. And I'm a mom of a wild and spirited 11 month old, so I found that that slowness kind of has a ripple effect on him as well. And it's really beautiful just to see how that practice of slowness, as I find it, regulates me, begins to ripple out onto other people as well.
Elise Hu (13:07):
Yeah. Well, listeners might know you from a viral Instagram post that you put up a few years ago about how growing up you knew lots of different kinds of women, successful women, ambitious women, productive woman, but not a relaxed woman. So let's talk about what a relaxed woman is. I'd love for you to just read that paragraph that kind of talks about what a relaxed woman is in the introduction.
Nicola Jane Hobbs (13:35):
The relaxed woman is a woman who is free, free to rest, free to cry free to make mistakes, and ask for help free to experience bliss and pleasure and delight, free to feel her emotions and choose her values and respond to compassionately, to the unavoidable stresses in her life, free to trust herself, to care for herself, to be herself.
Elise Hu (13:54):
How did you come to that?
Nicola Jane Hobbs (13:55):
As a psychologist? I started noticing patterns in the women that I was working with in that whatever the main source of the reason that they came to me was they all had this similar echo of finding it really difficult to relax and their worth was so tied up with their productivity that they felt guilty for resting and guilty for slowing down. And so I started doing some research into women's relationship with West, and that's really what kind of allowed me to come to this definition of what a relaxed woman is, and also looking into the etymology, the source of the word relax, which comes from the old French meaning to release, to liberate, to set free. And so I think it's so often to think about relaxation in a really commodified sense of spa trips and wellness products, which is great. And I think lots of us love them and they can be really helpful. But also if we broaden our idea of what it means to be a relaxed woman is that actually it's having this freedom in the world to live by our own values rather than all of these shoulds that have been imposed by society.
Elise Hu (15:12):
The whole notion of should can be so taxing and problematic.
Nicola Jane Hobbs (15:19):
I think that's what I started to recognize is the messages and the things that all the women I was working with were saying, and that who I spoke with in my research were so similar that it's almost like we have absorbed these messages from society and never actually had time to pause and think, is this actually what I believe and is this in line with my values and is this the life that I really want to live or am I just being pulled along at this machine pace that I never truly signed up for?
Doree Shafrir (15:51):
Yeah, I mean I think that's sort of the constant push and pull. I mean, one thing that I personally find difficult, and I'm wondering if you can speak to this a little bit, is recognizing when you're sort of in that, because it's hard I think when you are so in the world of the shoulds to be able to have that perspective on it. And I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that?
Nicola Jane Hobbs (16:20):
I can completely relate to what you're saying on a personal level as well. I think when we're stuck in it, it's really difficult to get that bigger perspective because it's like the whole water that we're swimming in and we're almost blind to it until almost something shines awareness on it. And we're like, oh my gosh, I've just been living my whole life by sometimes I refer to it as this internalized rule rubric of shoulds because it's like a rule book. And I think when it comes to relaxation, it breaks so many of these rules about we should be productive, we should be pleasing, we should always be doing more, and we should be endlessly giving. But I think a really helpful way to begin to identify is if we're experiencing a lot of shame, then I think that shame almost points away that we're living by shoulds.
Elise Hu (17:15):
That's helpful. What was it for you? What was your own journey like Nicola to finding this relaxed woman practice?
Nicola Jane Hobbs (17:24):
Even when I was very young, I experienced the world as quite overwhelming. When I was five or six, I had a lot of tests to see if I was deaf, which I wasn't. I just found it. I was so anxious. I found it really difficult to concentrate and to pay attention to the world around me. And now I understand the way the nervous system works a lot more and decreases. And so actually I think really what brought me to this journey is because I found it so difficult to relax and learning scientifically and on the psychological level, the kind of science behind it really helped me. And then just beginning to practice those things and begin to embody those things. And I started just noticing really small shifts. And then I thought, God, if I'm struggling with this, then it's probably a lot of other women are finding this difficult as well. And that's what really inspired me to write the book
Elise Hu (18:26):
Book. I love that there is so much science in it. Is there any particular research that you stumbled upon in trying to understand this state that we're in individually and collectively that really struck you and sticks with you that you want to take a moment to share?
Nicola Jane Hobbs (18:43):
So I think one of my favorite theories is something called the generalized on safety theory of stress. And it looks at stress in a slightly different way. Most theories around stress talk about the way when there's a trigger or a threat and the environment are stress response activates, it's switched on. Whereas the generalized on safety theory of stress or guts, which is sometimes called for short kind of posits, the opposite is that our stress response is always switched on unless we feel safe and then it switches off. So when it comes to resting and relaxing, it's not just about trying to reduce the stresses in our lives, it's also about trying to become more aware of and increase the sources of safeness in our lives. So soothing, warmth, comfort, and I think sometimes it's not just about what triggers my stress response to switch on, but also asking what helps my stress response switch off. So what helps me feel safe enough so that I can experience these states of rest and relaxation? And I think that was a really profound shift for me in the way that I related to relaxation and the way I spoke about it and worked with it with the women that I work with.
Elise Hu (19:54):
Yeah, it's an inversion, right? We're actually always stressed. The default is to be stressed.
Nicola Jane Hobbs (19:59):
Yeah, it makes sense on an evolutionary level in the sense of it's better safe than sorry. It's better that we run away from something that we think is a threat that isn't actually a threat 10 times. Then we don't run away that one time that it actually is a threat. But actually in our modern society now, we don't have that many. The threats. The threats are the deadlines, the emails, the headlines, the social media algorithms that aren't actually putting us in survival danger, but we still have nervous systems that have evolved to respond to them in that way. So it takes a lot of effort to actually let our nervous systems know, it's okay, you're safe now. This is just an email, this is just a deadline.
Doree Shafrir (20:44):
I'm wondering what you would say to women who are in such a heightened state of anxiety or just sort of trying to survive day to day. I mean, I think especially in the United States right now, things feel very precarious. There's a lot of economic uncertainty. And so I think possibly for some people, this idea of being relaxed is so far outside of anything they can even think about because they're trying to survive day to day. And so I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that and are there ways that people who are really just sort of struggling to survive can also feel relaxed?
Nicola Jane Hobbs (21:28):
We can't cope with all these socioeconomic and systemic pressures through self-care alone, and yet we need some tools and some practices that can help us get by and to kind of allow our nervous systems to calm. And our stress response is to switch off even if just for a moment. And I think that's what I'd say to women who are really in the thick of it right now, is that we don't need to spend hours napping on a sofa. It can just be one breath. It can be, I've got, my neighbors have got this beautiful blossom tree in their garden and this spring, so it's coming out in these beautiful pink blossoms. And every time that I look at it, I feel my nervous system begin to calm. And so I think it's at the end of the day, just pausing and thinking, what is it throughout the day that's helped me feel safe? And how can I begin to make that into a practice so that it's accessible for everyone?
Elise Hu (22:24):
This isn't a to-do list. This isn't things that you need to do in order to become relaxed. And in fact you write that being a relaxed woman in this framework is less about what we do and more about how we approach the world. Can you say a little bit more about that? So that those who want an actionable way to change our approach to the world might be able to see things a little differently?
Nicola Jane Hobbs (22:54):
So I think about the relaxed women as a, it's a way of being in the world. So it's not necessarily what we are doing that's changing. It's the way that we're paying attention and the way that whether it is with doing the washing up or caring for our child is that we are able to be live our values as we're doing it. So I think a lot of being a relaxed woman is getting in touch with what matters to us and those kind of core qualities that we want to embody that have been buried beneath all these layers of cultural messaging and childhood conditioning and those coping strategies, coping, coping that were helpful in childhood, but may have outlived their usefulness. And actually thinking about what does being a relaxed woman mean for each of us? And how can we embody that in the world?
Elise Hu (23:47):
And you actually came up the back half of the relaxed woman is the approach, right steps that we can take to go on a journey to become a more relaxed woman. Can you take us through that journey or the steps of that journey?
Nicola Jane Hobbs (24:03):
Yeah. So the journey is designed around what Bruce Perry calls. The way he talks about it is a neuros sequential journey. So it's a biologically sensitive journey that starts with bottom up practices to help soThe our nervous system and then brings in more top down strategies Once the thinking parts of our brain come back online and we feel more rested and we feel more regulated. So to start with, we begin with restoring our inner resources. And this begins with different forms of rest. So sometimes that's sleep, but often that's not, that isn't accessible. And like I said before, I've got a baby at the moment, 11 months old, that isn't an area of my life that I have much kind of wiggle them over. But there are all these different forms of rest that we can begin to play with. And this is what I write in the book is about, this isn't necessarily about doing the inner work, it's about inner play and about playing with different ways of being and playing with different forms of rest, which could be something as simple as wearing comfy clothes and warm fabrics and things that we can begin to weave into our life that aren't going to take us, aren't going to require time of us that we simply don't have.
(25:26)
So then the second step on the journey is about regulating our nervous system, which can take time to do in terms of finding rhythms of life that really work for us. But it also can be in smaller practices like rhythmic walking, rhythmic music, kind of swaying our hips and things like that, that our nervous systems and bodies start to recognize as this is safe, we are safe now, and then we move on to relationships and how we can nurture those in different ways and create more secure attachment patterns in our adult lives. Because I don't think any of us can become relaxed women alone. I think this really is a collective journey that we have to be on together and we can support each other and really champion each other when it comes to celebrating each other, stepping out of those patterns of productivity and people pleasing and moving towards a more restful where you've being.
(26:30)
And then the next step is beginning to release the beliefs that limit us. And so that is when we touched on earlier, the shoulds and the scheme is the ways of thinking that keep us trapped and keep us feeling unworthy. And then once we've released some of those, the next step is on how we can begin to realize our dreams and move towards a kind of meaningful manifestation where by we start moving towards the goals that matter to us and creating this not just a life worth living, but a life worth sharing. And then finally, I think what naturally comes from that is joining this relaxed revolution, which is how we can use the energy that we have and allow that to flow out into the world. And I think it goes, we can occupy many steps on this journey at the same time, and we're going to spend the rest of our lives on it. So it isn't like a to-do list that we can complete. It's more like we are on this journey together forever.
Doree Shafrir (27:33):
I love this idea of how people can find community and relaxation, because I feel like there's so many groups where people get together to sort of keep each other accountable for productivity or networking, networking. But the idea of having a relaxation circle where you get together with people to just talk about relaxing and how you can, as you said, put that energy out into the world, I think is really beautiful. So maybe this will inspire some of our listeners to start their own relaxation circles. Yeah, I want to do one. Yeah. This is really speaking to Dorie's Taurus energy. Yes. So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.
Elise Hu (28:33):
Let's talk a little bit more about the relationships part, because you have a whole chapter on nurturing our relationships. What role does better nurturing our relationships and our connections with one another do for our liberation?
Nicola Jane Hobbs (28:49):
So I think as I was speaking to a lot of the women in my research, what came across was almost this felt sense of aloneness. And I think that can then tied in with the cultural messaging is it leads to this sense of hyper independence and this kind of feeling of there's no one there. I remember one lady saying to me, I'm scared to rest because I'm afraid that if I take my foot off the gas, my whole life will fall apart. Almost like this sense of if I fall, there is no one to catch me. And we're all going to go through times in our lives where we are the ones doing the holding, and there's going to be times in our lives where we are the ones who need to be held. And we can only do that if we're in community. We can only trust that we can rest and that it's safe to rest if there are people there who can kind of carry the mental load for us when we really need it. And so I think nurturing relationships is really important, and I felt that in my life in the sense of as I've moved away from this, people pleasing, I can do everything on my own. I don't need anyone. I need to prove my worth into more of a sense of vulnerability and asking for help and allowing that kind of natural rhythm of giving care and receiving care. It's become a lot easier to rest and relax and actually know that this isn't something selfish because it gives me the capacity to give when other people need me.
Elise Hu (30:17):
Yeah. I wanted to ask you, is it selfish? Is this an argument that is difficult to make in this time, this era that we're living in to try and luxuriate in simple joys and pay more attention when there is so much chaos going on all around us?
Nicola Jane Hobbs (30:37):
And I think it is almost like our culture has rebranded relaxation as laziness and as selfish. But even if you look at it on a physiological level, as we relax and we become more regulated, it has a ripple effect. And I often talk about the ripple effect of the I relaxed women is we become sources of co-regulation for everyone we come into contact with. So on a nervous system to nervous system level, we become that source of calm and then they go on to affect everyone that they come into contact with. And I also think it's about, in one sense, it's a rest and relaxation of biological necessities. And for so many of us, it is a luxury and it is a privilege and it's a gift. And I think if we have that privilege, it almost comes with a certain responsibility so that we can begin creating new social norms where actually rest isn't a luxury. And everyone as women can honor that biological need to slow down and to have rest and relaxation become a necessary part of everyday life.
Elise Hu (31:51):
I like that about new social norms. And I think there's a real need for cultural shifts in the workplace too. America obviously is a pretty workaholic culture, but I used to be in South Korea and Japan, and it's even worse there. There's this sense that you can't take your foot off the gas because nobody else has taken their foot off the gas. And so you're looking around and there are no allies in trying to take better care of ourselves and our souls. So there is something about giving license and giving permission to other people as well. That I think is really key.
Nicola Jane Hobbs (32:29):
And I often think about what am I role modeling to other women? What am I role modeling to my son? And I think sometimes if we can't rest for ourselves, it's almost helpful to think about it that is almost like, okay, what am I role modeling for the other women in my family and in my community? And I think that first Instagram post that went viral is I never saw that. I didn't realize I was allowed to relax because I didn't see other women doing it. And I don't want my friends, my loved ones to feel the same way. So it almost feels like if I have this privilege where there are times in my life where I can take my foot off the gas, then if I do that, it almost gives other women permission to do the same. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (33:18):
Are there things in your life that you feel like you do need to put your foot on the gas for?
Nicola Jane Hobbs (33:24):
Yes, definitely. And I think there are going to be times when we're going to have to do that, but it's almost like, I think, so we've been sold this idea of balance as well. We have, we can effortlessly balance self-care and work. I think that just adds even more pressure to us as women. And so I really like to think about things in terms of rhythms. Is that actually, for example, now as I'm moving towards a book coming out, and I'm also, my baby's still little, so I want to be there for him. It feels like this actually for me is a time where my foot is on the gas and maybe my demands are exceeding my resources a little bit. But I know actually that once the book is out, I can take my foot off the gas a bit and have a bit of breathing space. And this is often what I say to women is when those opportunities to rest arise, we have to grab them because it's so easy to finish one project and then jump into the next thing. Whether that's on that larger scale or on a day-to-day basis, is that actually
(34:33)
When there's little windows of opportunities to rest our eyes, then we have to grab them because we dunno when the next opportunity might be.
Doree Shafrir (34:42):
Yes. That's very real.
Elise Hu (34:45):
Nicolette. Something that Dory and I have talked about over the last couple of months is what we would do if we weren't podcast hosts, if we weren't journalists. And I'm often like, oh, I think that I could be a psychologist, I could be a therapist. And then we've actually have therapists in our audience who call in saying, no, I actually want to be a writer. I want to be a podcast host instead, the grass is always greener on the other side. So because we have you on and you are a therapist, we'd love to know what you would do if you weren't one, if you weren't choose this line of work.
Nicola Jane Hobbs (35:23):
If I wasn't a therapist, just think at the moment where I am my life to be a full-time mom.
(35:30)
I'm actually moving towards that just to see. It might not be for me, but I think for me, part of writing this book has really, and going through this process has really brought me closer to my values and closer to what matters to me the most. And right now is being a mother. And I think I write in the book about how care work is so undervalued and I have the privilege of being able to take some time now, whether it's weeks, months, years to be full time with my son. So I think that that's what I want to do.
Elise Hu (36:10):
What they say is true. It is the longest, shortest time. The days are long. What do they say? The days are long, but the years are short or something like that. It is absolutely true because I was on vacation with my kids who are, and I was just like, I can't believe I have one. I have an almost teenager now and I can still see her when she was 11 months old. So that is something to try and really pay a lot of attention to and be intentional with about your time.
Doree Shafrir (36:37):
Nicola, where can our listeners find you? Are you doing any events and in the meantime, where can they follow along with your work?
Nicola Jane Hobbs (36:45):
Yeah, so we are going to do some workshops in the name of the time, which I'll put up on. Probably the best place is Instagram, which is just my name at Nicola Jane Hobbs. And then also I'll put some details on my website, which is The Relax Women.
Elise Hu (37:02):
Great. Thank you
Doree Shafrir (37:03):
So much.
Elise Hu (37:05):
Yes. And I feel cod by being in conversation with Convers.
Nicola Jane Hobbs (37:10):
Yeah. The more we speak about rest and relaxation, it does have that ripple effect because if we don't talk about it then it doesn't matter and it gets pushed to the side. But actually when we bring it to the forefront, it kind of just expands outwards and we all begin to feel a bit more rested and regulated together.
Elise Hu (37:34):
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for shining a light.
Doree Shafrir (37:39):
Did you feel like a relaxed woman after we spoke to Nicola? Yeah.
Elise Hu (37:44):
Just talking to Nicola Jane Hobbs is relaxing. She does. She seems like she's in a different gear, a more chilled out gear than the rest
Doree Shafrir (37:54):
Of us. Yes, yes, yes. She really does. She
Elise Hu (37:57):
Really does. I like it. I like it.
Doree Shafrir (38:01):
Well, Elise, last week I was talking about getting ready for sectionals
(38:06)
And when this airs, see, it's tricky because when this airs, sectionals will have already happened. But as we're recording this, I dunno what is going to happen at sectionals. So I'm going to sort of expand on this and say, I really just want to have a fun weekend with my tennis team. I'm trying not to put too many expectations on myself or on the team because I can really get anxious about that. And I don't want, I want to just be enjoying being on a tennis court near the beach. It's just going to be nice. And so I want to just lean into that and not focus so much on winning and losing. Easier said than done, but that, that's my objective.
Elise Hu (38:55):
Okay.
Doree Shafrir (38:56):
What about you?
Elise Hu (38:56):
That's a great intention. Thank
Doree Shafrir (38:57):
You.
Elise Hu (38:58):
My intention last week was just to get dressed every day.
Doree Shafrir (39:01):
Yeah. How'd that go?
Elise Hu (39:02):
I have done a great job. I bought some shorts. I got some shorts from Quince, some, I think Quince makes these linen shorts that are kind of dupes for these very popular linen shorts on anthropology. And they're Sears sucker. And I've been wearing that with buttoned down shirts and tank tops. And so I have a little bit of a more put together look when I go out and walk my dog. Nice. So that has helped just start my mornings. So I did live out that intention this week. As I mentioned at the top of the show, it's all about stretching my hamstring, my left hamstring, and my left hip flexor. They're so tight. It's actually getting in the way of enjoying exercises because it hurts. And so I really need to deal with it. I'm going to foam roll and stretch and just spend more time intentionally stretching rather than sighing in the middle of a podcast taping and trying to do it then.
Doree Shafrir (40:04):
Fair. Fair.
Elise Hu (40:05):
Yep.
Doree Shafrir (40:06):
Okay. Alright. Well before we wrap up, this is the time of the month where we thank our Patreon supporters at the $10 level and above. So I'm going to read some names and we are so appreciative for you. And if you want to support us on Patreon, you can do that at patreon.com/forever three five. Again, you get a lot of bonus content, but you also support the show. Maybe more importantly, add free episodes at the $10 a month. Oh yes. And add free episodes. That's true. Alright. Thank you to the following supporters, Heather Whaley, Caitlyn h Katie, Ashley Taylor, Teresa Anderson, Michelle Maya, Barbara Chia, Callos. Amy, Amy Schnitzer, Megan Helen, de Mo, Shelly Lee, Kim Beagler. Sarah, Sarah Boozy. Alison Cohen, Susan Eth, Melissa McClean, Fran, Kelsey Wolff, Donna, Laura, JE, APTI, Valerie, Bruno, Jane, Thoreau, Julie, Daniel E, Jackson, Amy, Mako, Liz Rain, jd. K. Jennifer Smith, Hannah, m Julia. Put Day, Marissa, Lauren Gitlin, Sarah Bell, Maria, Diana, Coco Bean, Laura Hadden, Josie h, Nikki Boser, Juliana Duff, Chelsea Torres, Tiffany G, Emily McIntyre, Stephanie Ana, Olivia Fahe, Elizabeth A. Kelly Dearborn, Christine Basses, Alison Mark Lane, Jessica Gale, Zulema, Lundy, Carolyn Rodriguez, Carrie Golds a T. Nikki, Catherine, Ellingson. Karaman. Sarah H Sarah Egan, Jess bin. Jennifer Hs. Eliza Gibson, Jillian Bowman, Brianne, Macy, Elizabeth Holland, Karen Perlman, Katie, Jordan, Sarah, MKM, Emily, Bruer, Josie, Alquist, Tara, Todd, Elizabeth Cleary, and Monica, thank you again. We're so grateful for you.
Elise Hu (42:02):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Doree Shafrir (42:03):
And just a reminder that Forever35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Samee Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager, and our network partner is Acast.