Episode 264: Curate Your Reality with Tiffany Dufu
“I think it is possible to curate your reality.”
- Tiffany Dufu
Kate goes high maintenance to stay low maintenance and Doree sends more things out of her home than she brings in. Then, Tiffany Dufu, founder and CEO of The Cru, joins them to chat about music as self-care, asking for help when her business was put in peril because of the Silicon Valley Bank collapse, and the best way to recalibrate when you’re feeling crippling self-doubt.
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Transcript
Kate: Well, hello there and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I am Kate Spencer.
Doree: And I am Doree Safrir.
Kate: And we're not experts.
Doree: We're not, but we're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums
Kate: And what you can visit our website forever35podcast.com for links, everything you mentioned on the show. I know, crazy, right? And you can also find us on Instagram @Forever35podcast. And the larger Forever35 community is also on Facebook at our group where the password is serums. You can shop our favorite products at shopmy.us/forever35 and check out our newsletter at forever35podcast.com/newsletter.
Doree: And you can call or text us at (781) 591-0390. You can email us at Forever35podcast@gmail.com. Just want to give a little update on ye Old Giving Circle.
Kate: Okey dokey.
Doree: We are almost at $10,000.
Kate: Okay,
Doree: So we're almost halfway to our goal. I bet by the time this airs we will be over 10,000, but as of this recording we are at 9,998 and 13 cents.
Kate: Oh my gosh. Okay
Doree: So really we're very close to 10, which is very exciting. And literally every dollar helps. So if you want a tootaloo on over and give a few bucks, Please do.
Kate: Please.
Doree: It's such an easy way to actually help shape the trajectory of our democracy.
Kate: And God, our democracy is,
Doree: It's hanging on by a thread, Okay
Kate: It's really, it's on the edge of a cliff holding on, gripping by its fingertips.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Dangling.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: And we'd like to pull it up a little bit
Doree: Just a tad.
Kate: At least get it resting on its elbows. Goodness gracious. This nation we live in, it's a wonder we make a podcast about all the things we do to take care of ourselves.
Doree: That's true.
Kate: Not that they solve anything, but they help you forget for a moment.
Doree: Yeah,
Kate: Yeah. For example, Doree, I got a lash lift yesterday.
Doree: I was texting you about something and you were like, I won't be able to get to this right away. I'm at my lash lift. And I was like,
Kate: You were like, who is this woman?
Doree: Hold the phone. We had not discussed a lash lift.
Kate: I've never gotten a lash lift before. I've never done anything like this before. And it was a real, as I like to do impulsive move because our friend and podcast, Maureen Goo was talking about how she gets eyelash extensions and she made a passing comment to me that was like, You should get a lash lift. And I was like, well, I do what you say, you're my friend and who's very wise. I'll try that. And she recommended the person who does her lashes. And I was like, okay, why not just get a, why not do a one-time thing? I'll experiment. I can talk it about, I can talk about it on this podcast. So I also got an eyebrow lamination while I was at it. I did both.
Doree: This is exciting. I mean, your eyebrows really, I can even, it's hard for me to really see your lashes from here, but your eyebrows are like, oh yeah,
Kate: They are really, they're really making a statement.
Doree: They really are. How do you feel about them?
Kate: I'll say, I like them. So here's what it is, it's a perm essentially. It's like I got my eyelashes and my brows permed. So the lift just kind of flips them up and kind of pulls them in position. So I will say, my children, here's, here was everyone's reactions at my home. One kid was like, cool, I love it. One kid was like, what the fuck did you do to your eyelashes, my heterosexual male partner did not notice until I was like, do you see my face now?
Doree: That is pretty typical.
Kate: I know.
Doree: Unless you put lipstick on.
Kate: Oh, that's a good call. They only notice lipstick.
Doree: Only notice lipstick.
Kate: I feel like I look like it's a little extreme right now because I haven't, like you can't wash your face or get them wet or oily or anything for 24 hours after.
Doree: Oh, Okay.
Kate: So I've just, the lashes are just kind of held in position. I mean the brows are kind of held in position right now and my lashes are very up. I look very awake. But once I, I'm going to wash my face and kind of see how they settle and try some brow gel. But I don't know. I like it. I think it's really cool. We'll see how long it lasts and if it feels like an investment, I would want to keep up because everything, it costs money honey.
Doree: Of course. For the benefit of our listeners, can you just briefly describe exactly what goes into an eyebrow lamination?
Kate: Yeah. Well I'll tell you. So basically I went to the lash person, you lay down and the first she did my eyelashes. So essentially she like, your eyes are closed and your lashes are stuck to little, I don't little plastic sheets that go over your lid and under your eye eye. And then using a quick chemical process. The whole thing takes about an hour. But she has a chemical process and that just puts them into the shape and then they hold and then she removes it. And then the same thing is done with the brow. So the brow is brushed up, the chemicals are applied in three steps and then you're set free.
Doree: Wow.
Kate: And she also kind of trimmed and shaped and plucked a little bit with my brow. So the brows, it'll be interesting to see. I think they just have a little guage and I will still have to brush them into shape, but they look like they're going up. Whereas my eyebrows grow very long and grow down. So I just was in inspired to try something new. So here I am.
Doree: I love it. I love it
Kate: Here I am, the one thing I am kind of into is this idea that my lashes are always going to be popping and I don't have to do anything or think about them.
Doree: Yeah, That's great.
Kate: I'm kind of into that.
Doree: Amazing.
Kate: But Also maybe I'm just another cog in the beauty industrial complex wheel and
Doree: Arent We all
Kate: We are I think most of us are. And it's just a matter of which level roller coaster you want to ride. Yeah.
Doree: Oh yeah, I know.
Kate: So here I am. I dunno. It was an easy process. It didn't hurt. I'm think. Am I seeing you tonight in person? Maybe.
Doree: You sure are Kate.
Kate: Okay. So
Doree: I can't wait to see them. IRL
Kate: I'm going to model for you.
Doree: Great.
Kate: I'm going to model them for you.
Doree: I look forward to that. I do not have anything nearly as exciting to report.
Kate: Well, do you have something unexciting to report?
Doree: That's a great question, Kate. It's spring now and I do feel like every spring I like a chrysalis. Chrysalis. Chrysalis.
Kate: Chrysalis. I think
Doree: Chrysalis. I decide that I need a new I. I'm over my old clothes, so I've been selling clothes again.
Kate: But I want to say something.
Doree: What
Kate: What if you didn't buy any new clothes?
Doree: I mean, I am not really, I bought a dress, but I'm definitely getting rid of a lot more than I am buying.
Kate: You're shedding.
Doree: I'm shedding. I would like there to be a net loss of items.
Kate: There we go. I like this for you. I like the shed without
Doree: The replacement.
Kate: Yeah, because I do that. I'm, look at me, I'm getting rid of stuff and aren't I doing a good job narrowing things down and making this a minimalistic experience. Not that everyone has to be a minimalist, but you know what I mean. And then all of a sudden I'm like, here are all the new things I'm putting in the shelves on the shelf now.
Doree: Right. Totally. Totally.
Kate: I'm just adding to the clutter again that I didn't need.
Doree: Totally. Yes.
Kate: Okay.
Doree: So I hung on, so we'll see how it goes. I'll keep everyone posted. I'll keep everyone looped in.
Kate: Yeah. Keep us looped. Are you selling, are you donating?
Doree: I'm, I'm starting with trying to sell.
Kate: Okay.
Doree: Mostly in local groups, local mom groups and yeah, then I will historically given some stuff away in my local buy nothing group. So definitely stuff that is not, I've tried multiple groups and it's not selling. I will give it away. But I don't love donating to a Goodwill or one of those places because there have been so many articles about how all that, so much of that stuff ends up in landfills. So my preference is to give it away to individuals.
Kate: I do love my buy nothing group.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: I just got a very cute little LA from my buy nothing group. You get the fun, most fun treasures in a buy nothing group.
Doree: Oh, for sure. For sure.
Kate: So you are giving someone treasures, I just want to say you're providing treasures.
Doree: I am providing treasures. I mean it, it's a constant process. I've thought about having, hiring an organizer. This has been a years long thing and I feel like I can't even have anyone in my house. Cause there's so much stuff.
Kate: that's a frustrating feeling.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Are you feeling getting rid of this stuff will help?
Doree: It's a drop in the bucket.
Kate: Yeah. Yeah.
Doree: So I don't know. Trying to rest a little tiny little bit of control back.
Kate: Good. Control from the stuff.
Doree: Yes. The stuff is what
Kate: Stuff is hard. It's really, really hard because it has a control of us. It has control of us and also we are taught to need and want it and need more of it. And so it's really hard to shut that down, especially when everything churning around us is more stuff. More stuff, more stuff. Even if you're able to be like, no, I don't need this.
Doree: Yeah, totally. And I feel like I've been a broken record with this, but I feel like I can just never get, get a handle on it.
Kate: Yeah.
Doree: It is my white whale. I walk into some people's houses and I'm like, how is your house so neat and clean? Where is your stuff? And then I'm like, oh, they don't have that much stuff.
Kate: Well But also what's interesting, and I think our Casey Davis interview really hits on this is that having, is that also this feeling that having the clutter, having all the stuff, having a house messy is morally not is morally bad. But I know we've talked a lot about this, but
Doree: Yea, And I'm not judging myself.
Kate: Okay.
Doree: I'm saying that for me psychologically I find it very overwhelming to have all this stuff unorganized, all this clutter. It's not, I think I'm a morally bad person, but I think the corollary of that is that you can also not want all that stuff. You know what I mean?
Kate: Yeah.
Doree: You can not want it without judgment.
Kate: I also, I understand and I empathize because I struggle a lot with the way that clutter and mess makes me feel. It makes me feel
Doree: Exactly
Kate: Like I, it's really hard for me, but also I struggle with how to organize. So all those things that's just as I think we're both kind of saying are forces that work against us.
Doree: Yes. Exactly Kate. So that's where I'm at right now.
Kate: Well I see you.
Doree: Thank you Kate. I know you do
Kate: And I honor you because it's, it's really freaking hard.
Doree: It is really hard. It's really hard.
Kate: Well I think a nice antidote to all these feelings will be our guest today. Because you and I both loved our conversation with our guest Tiffany and found her to be, just so I don't use the word soothing, but just really engaging and almost comforting to talk to.
Doree: Yeah, calming.
Kate: Calming is a great word. Our guest today is Tiffany Dufu, the founder and c e o of the Crew, which is this amazing organization that matches women in accountability circles to help them meet their life goals. She's also the author of the bestselling book, drop the Ball, achieving More by Doing Less. You can find her writing on places like Oprah Magazine, essence and the New York Times. She's been named to entrepreneurs, a hundred powerful Women and fast companies, league of Extraordinary Women. I mean she's just incredible. An incredible human who is so insightful. She's very cool. So buckle up, sit back and relax and enjoy our conversation with Tiffany right after this break.
Doree: Be right back.
Kate: Tiffany, welcome to Forever35. We are thrilled to have you. I feel like I have so many questions. One of them is like, how can I get a crew? But I'm going to save that one. Toward the end of the conversation though, I am going to ask, but we're just so glad to have you on the show. Thank you so much for being here today.
Tiffany: Oh, thank you for having me. It's a real joy and a great departure from the meeting I would probably be in right now. If I were talking to the two of you,
Kate: Meetings are back. meetings. Well we like to get started in a more gentle fashion, which is by asking our guests about a self-care practice that is important in their own lives in whatever way that means to you. So is there something that you do on a regular basis that is your self-care?
Tiffany: There are so many things I'll share. The one that I've been doing since I was a little girl, that has the most longevity, which is every night I put on music I now put on a Beats headset. I didn't have that when I was a little girl. And I listen to music, I, I'm kind of dancing to the music. But really what's happening is that I'm a music video. I'm in my own music video world and it doesn't matter how much homework I have doesn't matter what SAT test I need study for does matter what investor I need to pitch to it doesnt matter what homework I need to help my kids with its just evolved over time whenever i put on that music and i start moving my body, I dissappear into myself in a really beautiful way.
Kate: Do you also connect to your younger self when you like because you just love how you mentioned that you've been doing this for a long time since you were a teenager doing homework. Do you still kind of tap in or connect to that person?
Tiffany: Totally, in fact when I was an adolecent i used to think I dont think I want to be an adult. Cause I never see adults just dancing with reckless abandon like they're doing a video. I never saw my parents do that. I never saw another adult do that. So I thought it would be Something I would outgrow. I could never, I have never outgrown it. And I have a Beats headset cause I listen to music so loud that even my kids are like, mom seriously.
Kate: Yeah and you have teenagers, right? So they teenagers inherently, I feel like no matter what generation they're listening to music loud.
Tiffany: Yes. But I definitely beat them. I listen to it louder.
Doree: What are You listening to these days? What are some of your kind of go-tos?
Tiffany: Oh, I love Emily King. I'm listening to Beyonce Renaissance right now was jamming last night to Im every woman, I was listening to Sherly Crow the other night. I just, whatever makes me move.
Kate: I love that I want to do this. The noise canceling headphones I also feel like are a massive self-care tool for a variety of reasons and situations. But they're probably one of the most handy things I have in my house right now.
Tiffany: Well especially when you live in a two bedroom apartment in Harlem with four people.
Kate: Oh yeah. Then you need extreme.
Tiffany: Yeah. Yes.
Kate: So one thing I've noticed just in reading about your work is that you really seem, no matter what you're doing, kind of really focus on the fact that investing in women and girls is at the core of your life's work. And that's kind of the through line and the thread through everything that you do. And so I would just kind of love to know more about how you started to notice this as your passion and how did that get elevated to a career for you?
Tiffany: Well you're absolutely correct. My life's work is advancing women and girls. That's pretty much why I'm on the planet. And even my kids will tell you that. They'll say just so you know, it's not us. Every time she introduce herself she says advancing women and girls, I think that purpose is a decision, people have mystified it alot, I dont know anyone walking down the street, the opened up and some voice of God told them, you know drop to your knees you're to save orca whales or something, I think that your purpose is simply a decision that's inspired by one or more experiences that you've had in your life. And there are several experiences that I've had in my life that ladder up to women and girls. One of them is probably that I'm the oldest of four girls. I'm big sister, I've led people through everything from bad marriages to bad dates to bad schools. And it's just kind of a part of me to help women to achieve clarity through guidance and encouragement. I also have a mom who had a very huge influence on my life very early in my life. She used to tell me every day, Tiffany, you're so smart. You're so beautiful, you're so loved. She would tell me that every day as if it was the first she was telling me as if she just discovered this and she was just telling me for the first time. And I really appreciated that. Of course not at the time time. It was very annoying that my mother told me this every day. But especially when you're like 14 and you just want big boobs and you know, don't really care about stuff like that. But later I realized that she was giving me a tremendous amount armor and was countering the other voice that would be in my head telling me that I wasn't enough and that I wasn't beautiful and that I wasn't smart. Which is pretty much the soundtrack for alot of us and i spent alot of time with women trying to refigure that soundtrack. Unfortunately my mom didn't have a mother like I had, so she really struggled with all three of those narratives and she's not available to me now. I had her until I was 16. But every day I think I wake up just trying to get to as many woment as I can and I whisper to whisper their ear, you're so smart, you're so loved, you're so beautiful, you can totally do this. Cause I know the power of that. And I also know what happens to a woman who doesn't have that reality to draw upon.
Kate: Oh my gosh, I'm always so amazed at the people who break the cycle. Your mom did. My father kind of is similar. And h how they know to do that when they weren't given that information is al is so it just blows my mind. And the change it makes is incredible.
Tiffany: Yeah, it really is. I'm not sure that they know how to do it. I was talking to my dad when I was pregnant with my second daughter and i was having one of those sentimental moments where I was trying to bond with him and I was telling him about what I most hoped for with this second child, what I really wanted for her and what I thought I could help nurture in her. And I asked my dad when mom was pregnant with me what did you hope for,like what were you looking forward to? And he got really quiet and I almost withdrew the question because I thought, wow maybe it's not a positive answer. And I said, you know daddy, you don't have answer. He said, no, no. He says, I want to answer. It's embarrassed of my answer to the question. and i said how could you possibly be embarrased of what you hoped for me, It had to be something good right? so. Well he says, well kinda. when your mom was pregnant with you, what I'm most for was that you would graduate from high school and that you wouldn't get pregnant before you graduated. He said, the woman that youre right now I didn't know that women like you exsisted when your was pregnant with you. He says, I just hoped. I just prayed and I just hoped. So I think that it's possible to curate a reality that you dont have a path for and you dont have a plan for, you dont know how to do it, i think that they were hoping and they were praying and if they were relying on something obviously much bigger outside of themselves and deeper within themselves to really develop us and nurture us without having a roadmap. And I think it's one of the most incredible gifts.
Kate: Yeah. Makes me cry.
Doree: Yeah, that's really beautiful Tiffany. I'd love to talk about the crew. I think we both, Kate, I don't want to speak for you, but I do think we both are just really
Kate: I want a crew.
Doree: We want a crew, we love the mission.
Kate: That's awesome.
Doree: We love what it's doing. Could we hear about the backstory of the crew and what led you to start it? How is it going? Yeah, what impacts have you seen it making
Tiffany: Totally, Well everything I do is centered on just trying to help women create lives that they're passionate about. And one of the things that I've done for years is said yes to a lot of women, probably too many women, I'm obsessed you all are with just listening to women's stories for many years from 2011 until 2020 I would meet with women either in person or virtually once the pandemic hit, every Tuesday and Thursday at nine , 10, and 11 am. So I would listen to six, seven womens stories week a week and over time I need this observation which is that we as women, we often have a lot of people around us. We have our family, we have our friends, we have our coworkers, we have our bosses, we have the people in our synagogues, in our churches. And know mentally that people are here to support us in some way, shape or form. But we literally spend most of our time caregiving for all of them. And psychologically we don't perceive our personal and professional journey as a team sport. We psychologically perceive as a solo emdevor meaning that we have a problem When any of these women had a problem and maybe they were coming to me for it to try to get some clarity, the first question they always asked themselves was how am i going solve this problem When important question any of us can ask ourselves is who's going to help solve this problem? When I have a problem, the first thing I'm trying to figure out is who's going to help solve it, Before I could even figure out what the solution could Possibly be, because there's under the sun, I don't need to reinvent a wheel, and if I dunno the person who can help me, somebody knows the person who can help me. Now in full disclosure, someone once told me that I have a case ofa, it's the opposite of paranoia. They said, Tiffany, you actually walk through the world believing the universe is conspiring in your favor that wants help you. Everyone wants to help you. And I was like dont they?. He's like, oh my god.
Doree: Oh I love that.
Tiffany: But even though that is the case, I actually believe that its true. So I would tell women for years about my crew. Which is a group of women that I've connected with for years, and our formula is very simple. we each go around and we take a turn giving an update on our ambitions. Everyone talks about what is the next step that were going to execute on between now and the next time we all gather again. And we basically hold one anothers feet to the fire. And pretty much everything I've accomplished over the past decade, whether it's my book, whether it's the crew itself, has come out of me basically being held accountable to my dreams by a group of people who really push me even when it doesn't feel comfortable and it's not rocket science, we're all 90% more likely to realize a goal when we write it down and when we're and being held accountable by a group of people. So I would tell people about my crew and I thought I was doing them a service by sharing with them this thing. And then one day I had what I call Tiffanys epiphany some people call them A-ha moments. I was meeting with a woman, I think it was a Tuesday at 10:00 AM she was that slot. And I was telling her about how I have this amazing crew and asking her who she was going to talk to her callenges and who was going to hold her accountable. And I could tell from her body language she was not feeling me. I dunno if you've ever had that experience.
Kate: Oh yeah, yeah.
Tiffany: And I stopped and I said is everything ok. And thankfully she was honest with me, and she said, Tiffany no its not ok, I think it's really easy for someone like you to sit in this beautiful pink space where you hold court talking to women and to tell me, your crew and I can see why you have a crew, but I dont think you appreciate the kind of work that goes into finding a crew. And then she walked me through the process, she was like, first I would to get invited to the cocktail party or the conference or the event. You probably get invited to speak at things like that. She says, then you want me to awkwardly take out my business cards and like introduce myself to strangers that I dont know and is that might be easy for you cause people kind of know who you're already, she says then you want me to schedule coffees, teas, and lunches to meet with all of these people just so you know. I had to take time off of work, ask my boss if I could leave to meet you here at 10:00 AM on a Tuesday, most women work at 10:00 AM on a Tuesday Tiffany, then you want me to figure out who I'm compatible with and plan monthly meetings, where were going to put our goals together, hold women accountable. Like, I have 3 kids, and a mom with a diagnosis, and a dog, and a full time job. Like, what you wrote this book called Drop the Ball and now this is what you're telling me that I have to do. No I'm not feeling you and this is not helpful cause now I just feel overwhelmed that I'm never going to be able to get what I need. And that was a moment for me where I realized, oh my gosh, if my life's work is advancing women and girls, I probably should stop preaching to all these women about how they need to go and find their crew and I need fight hard, that's what I'm here for. That's what I'm here to do. It was very tough because, I'm not a technologist, I knew we needed technology to scale something like this. I was not an entrepreneur. I had spent most of my career in the nonprofit sector. I had raised some nonprofit dollars but no venture capital. I mean there was really nothing about embarking on being the founder of a tech company had done before. But that moment for me was everything. It was like if I can't find this woman a crew, what am I really here to do? So that's how we launched with just me like a video on social saying Hi, I'm Tiffany, I have this amazing crew. Do you need one? I'll help you find one. Just click here. We have since pivoted our model, but we started direct to consumer with me just trying to get to as many women as I could and trying to match them and ensure that they were getting what they need.
Kate: I love this idea too because A, I'm a writer, Doree's a writer and I feel like we meet with other writers and talk about careers and writing but getting feedback from folks who are outside of that kind of insular world sounds really powerful. Like hearing from different people and different voices with different experiences, especially professionally but in all in ways is brilliant. And that is really hard to cultivate, especially as we kind of narrowly focus more and more in our career are our circles kind of get smaller in a lot of ways.
Tiffany: It's tough to cultivate and it's also tough to maintain discipline around cause it's very easy for as women especially because of the way we are socially conditioned to develope relationships with eachother to fall back into a pattern of putting ourselves at the center of one another's experiences. So when you were in kindergarten, you were likely taught that you should put yourself in someone else's shoes We're taught that we should do that, so when someone is sharing that they're having a challenge or that there's a goal that they want to achieve and they might be experiencing some friction unless we're total jerks, which none of are. We're going to fell empathy towards that person and we typically put ourselves in someone's shoes by doing one of two things. Either we imagine what we did when we were in that person's situation or we imagine what we would do if we were in that person's situation even if we've never been in their situation. And then we kind of throw that up on the person. Here's what I would do, this is what you need to do. None of that though really holds space for the person in the way that we do it at the crew we really focus on a peer coaching methodology where you're asking one another open ended question, why is this important to you? What would happen if you asked for exactly what she wanted? What is the next thing that you're going to do now and next time we see you to really move this forward. What do you need from us in order move this forward. It's that intentionality around holding space for others that sometimes we're missing in our relationships and that is really important to help drive change in our lives.
Doree: Can you talk a little bit about just logistically how the crew works? Is your crew, is one's crew made up of women who they already know or is it, do you get assigned to a crew?
Tiffany: It's a great,
Kate: how does all work?
Tiffany: It's a great question. We've pivoted our model. So now most of our members are coming from our partner companies who are really investing in their talent and youre being matched in a crew of individuals that you dont know, it's a diverse group of people. We try to ensure that they're peers with you. It's not a mentorship platform in that way. And you're doing two things. One is that you're getting really clear about what we call intentions, those are your goals. So you're deciding over the next 12 months these are the things that I need to accelerate in my personal and professional life. Whether it's I need to pay off my student loans, I need get a promotion, I need to start a meditation practice. I need to spend more time with my kids whatever it is for you. You're actually writing those things in a digital tracking tool with actions against them. And then once a month you're meeting with your crew at what we call a gathering. And that's really your sacred time where each of you is going to do a little centering and opening and share some insight of time of the time in your gathering with each person going around the way that I did with my crew and each person giving an update and each person really being held accountable and being asked those open ended questions before you wrap up. now for us peer coaching is a really critical skill. So for those first three gatherings, there's someone in the crew with you, we call that person a crew guide, they're a certified coach. Just make sure you've peer coaching skill down before you do this on your own, but by your fourth month usually crew has got it and the most beautiful thing about the crew is that is that you can see the evidence evolution of the self every day. We're actually growing and learning if we're doing something meaningful with our lives. But very rarely do we take the time to stop and celebrate ourselves. And even more rarely are we tracking our progress in such a way that we can go back. We see, wow, look at how far I've come, so it's really beautiful experience to see women checking off those actions, checking off those intentions and seeing them really create change in their lives.
Doree: So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.
Kate: You had an interesting experience that went viral it when you documented what happened because the crew had invested at the Silicon Valley Bank and if you've been paying attention to the news and the financial markets, we've seen what's happened there, which is I imagine an absolutely harrowing experience to go through as a founder and an entrepreneur. But what's interesting to me is that you kind of practiced what I think, I hate the word preach, but you practiced your philosophy of asking, you asked for help. So could you just give our listeners a little bit of the story of what happened there?
Tiffany: Oh absolutely. By the way, I, a preacher's kid, so this is like my ministry, I like to say yes, the crew was a customer of Silicon Valley Bank. If you can imagine going to your bank account online, you can see the but have no access to funds. You cant withdraw, you cant make any transfers, I just want you to imagine that and simultaneously you're watching the news and there are reports that the bank that your money is collapsing right now.
Kate: Oh my gosh.
Tiffany: If you were anybody you would feel a lot of panic, even more so for founders who do a lot to get that money in the bank. In my case, I've pitched to nearly 200 investors. I mean every ounce of money in our bank, is money that i pitch my heart out before and went through a lot to get and we're an early stage startup. The vast majority of those dollars are going to, our people it's payroll. Its the human capital, and so for me it was a very stressful. Wanted more than ensure that the people whose livelihoods I'm responsible for, people work at the crew and they use their paycheck to cover their mortgage, their rent, their childcare I needed us to have access to those funds so that the people who work so tireless help women realize their intentions that the crew would be able to realize theirs. So it was really tough. I did do what I preach, others to do which is ask help, when my back is against the wall, I think Tiffany who's going to support you right now in this moment. And cause I at the time was literally crying in an airport bathroom. I think that's probably the video that you saw. I just thought, there's no time for you make individual phone calls you need to ask for help in the most public way to get to as many people as you can, and LinkedIn has been really amazing to you. they're so supportive of you, you've been delivering content to them. You care so much about ensuring that they're realizing their intentions, they will believe you when you say I need help and of the 600k followers you have some, even if 2% of them come through, you'll get what you need. So just do it and don't think about it. Otherwise you'll chicken out.
Kate: That's good advice. Don't think about it.
Tiffany: No.
Kate: Because we get in our own ways. So often, I mean I can only speak for myself but I get in my own way a lot, a lot. And it's hard to push myself out of my own way.
Doree: Well kind of along those lines Tiffany, how would you suggest people kind of recalibrate when they struggle with self-confidence?
Kate: Yeah, how do we do that?
Tiffany: Well, the best way that I have found, is to one, get a few people who you know care about you, like 2 or 3 of them and be honest with them in the molments when you're not feeling your best, you're not confident, and i think sometimes we feel like we need to have a special molment, we need to have a script to know exactly what to say. Its ok to send someone a text message that says I dont know whats going on with me right now, but I'm feeling overwhelmed or I'm feeling anxious, or I'm not feeling confident, or something is happening with me and I am just reaching out to someone who I know cares about me, just to do that check. And that person is going to write back, Youre incredible, depending upon your relationship with the person your phone might ring right? Then say what's going on, how can I help, what do you need, I just think that we forget that it feels really good to give, that it feels really amazing to help and that people who love you and care about you would be so disappointed. They would be so sad to know that you were suffering in silence and that they didn't know and they might opportunity to support you. I also think. That's important especially if youre needing in your life in any way, shape or form. If you're leading as a parent, if you're leading as a volunteer, if you're leading as a manager, that you model the kind of behavior you feel you help instill in the people who are looking up to you. If my daughter doesnt see me cry, shes not going to know that its ok to cry, if she doesnt see me ask for help, then shes not going to know how to ask for help. If my daughter doesn't see me putting myself first sometimes at her own expense, even at her own expense, she won't believe me when I tell her You need to put yourself first. So it's really important to ask. It's also important to say no when you can't do something. I can't tell you the number of who when I've asked for help, so when I have said no I'm not able to do something I have a four step process for doing that. the persons response to me is, you can do that? So you can totally do it.
Doree: Thats such a good reminder because I know it's so hard for me to do that, to just reach out to someone and put that out there. But I know when people have done it to me, I respond in the same way that you're saying. So it's like, oh okay. Hello. So thank you for that reminder. It's so important.
Kate: Along those lines, here's a question for you because you said earlier that you believe purpose is a decision which I love because I do feel like a lot of times we're like, what's my purpose? I don't know. And we spend a lot of time searching around instead of just being like, oh I'm just going to make my purpose, I don't know, walking dogs, whatever. How do you though suggest, are there tools or steps that someone can use to take the mind and the swirling chaos of trying to make a decision and help them kind of focus on what might be their purpose or if you say Purpose A is a decision, someone's like, well I don't even know what my purpose could be. I don't even know what to decide on because I don't even know. How do you help get them there?
Tiffany: Oh there's so many exercises that you can do. I'll share a few of them. One question that I always love to start with just to begin to do some mind sharing is the question that you started with when you asked me about my wellness practice, which is, so when you were a little girl and you were doing homework and you weren't doing chores and you had way more time to do whatever you wanted to do with your time, how were you spending your time, what were you doing with your time. Another exercise I love to take people through is one that was made popular by Stephen in his book Habits of Highly Effective People. And basically it's a visualization exercise where you imagine a friend, a family member, maybe a coworker eulogizing you and what they would say at of your life's especially important for people who are really at the productivity and getting a lot of things done. Cause no one at their funeral wants people to stand up and say, well she got a lot of things jumped off of her to do list,
Kate: Right?
Tiffany: They want you to share what kind of impact that you had on the world's a really great exercise to get you out of the weeds, of what do I do professionally or what are my hobbies to know what Beyonces I am here, what are people saying about the change that I made in the, and I think sometimes it's helpful you imagine other people talking about you than you kind creating that yourself. Another exercise I love actually gets information from other people. This is especially if you just literally if you dont know where to begin, and I love asking many people who have known you in different parts of your life, to just tell you a story about when they experienced you at your best. Oh, then to be quiet, don't interrupt them, if you record their stories. Beautiful. Can transcribe the stories even better, i encourage people to then print the stories, spread the stories on a table on the floor and just start circling words that are similar. There's consistent experience that people have had with you since you were kindergarten, that you may not necessarily be aware of but that often can later up to what really matters most to you. Those are just some places to begin.
Doree: I love those. Oh I love those Kate. We should do those.
Kate: Yeah, I love that. Just yes, I love that so, so much. And it's such an interesting, I appreciate you just kind of saying what would people say about you? Because I had to really think about this as a writer of what is my purpose in writing this book? Is it to be a best seller? Actually no. Even though that's the thing I thought I maybe wanted on the surface actually. No. It's really to bring people joy or pleasure or escape or whatever the kind of word is that you use. And that was very helpful for me to rebuild my confidence in moments where I'm like, what am I doing with my life?
Tiffany: I think thing to keep in mind is that you dont have to have one purpose forever. We feel so much pressure. I have a friend named who's just amazing. She's in my crew and she has done so many different things. She switches it up and I always respect that people are often, Tiffany, you've had this one purpose for decades, but if you've looked at pictures of me, I've also had the same hairstyle for decades, I've also worn the same earrings for decades. The same nail polish color. I'm just one of those people who finds the thing and just sticks with it. That doesn't have be you, I love one purpose cause it's just very efficient for me and it helps me to maintain discipline around again saying, no, you're going to raise money for X, y, or Z. No, it's not women and girls, that's not me. I'm going to focus on this thing. But it doesnt have to be that way, and i think thats the other pressure too I'd love for people to drop the ball on is thinking They've got to choose this one thing and then live it out for the rest of their existence.
Kate: Yeah, I love in your book Drop the Ball, which is a fantastic title. I like that. You really, and I, I'm gathering this from our conversation. The focus is really on asking and expecting more from others where as opposed to from ourselves, which I think, and this might be very specific to being American, but the individual doing it all, it is such a narrative we've been fed over and over and it's such BS and leads to burnout and exhaustion and a lot of negatives. And I really just appreciate that you seem to be really pushing this idea of there it's community. It's community is really what is going to help elevate us and help us elevate others. And I don't know, this is not a question, just more observation that it feels very empowering to kind of hear that because I feel like so often we're told that it's all got to come from ourselves and just if we just did a couple things, we'd have it all solved. Which is not true. Especially in the different ways that systems work against individuals.
Tiffany: Completely. Of course. It's one thing to say that and it's another thing to actually live that. You know what I would love every listener to do, just to demonstrate your point that you're making, is we all occupy different roles in our lives. If you were assigned girl, your first probably daughter, if you were assigned, boy, your first role was probably son. If you had siblings, you became a brother, a sister. We went to the playground, we became friends, students, workers managers. And a lot of the pressure that we feel is in relationship to almost invisible job descriptions associated with these roles. One of the most powerful things that you can do is to go to the stakeholder associated with that role. So if you're a mom, go your kids. If you're a wife, go the husband, you're a partner to the partner. If you're a manager, go to your boss.
If someone who's a direct report and tell them that you want to be a good X, I want to be a good mom, thats my aim, and from your prospective, what are the top 3 things that you feel I can be doing over the next six months, over the next year, if your kids are little, you might have to make it three months, days. That would you feel I'm a really good mom? That I'm being a really good sister, I'm being a really good friend. And it's one of the most useful, important things that you can do. Cause very rarely is their list like larger or bigger or more complicated than yours. Typically, what people will state that they need from us when we ask the question in that way is such a lower bar than what were worried about what we're overwhelmed about and it really takes a load off to your point about, what we need to be executing on. Especially when sometimes the things ongoing things like the last time I asked my kids this was before the holidays, and I have 2 kids and I asked them to come up with 3 things and we could kind of negotiate their request. But one of the things on their list was something related to the fact that i am a drop the ball mom, which means that over the holidays when we celebrate christmas overate I always wait until the day before christmas to get a tree, and their request in September was that when the holidays are approaching, they wanted me to go get the tree a few weeks before christmas so that our tree could sit in the window like everybody elses in our neighborhood. And I couldn't believe that if you had three things to ask of me in order for you to feel like I was being a good mom, that me going to get the Christmas tree would be on the list. But that's why you should ask. You know, never know. And now that's checked off. Now I only have two things, which is helping my son with his ACT cause he's a junior and makings scones on the weekend which is an ongoing thing. But in the next couple of weeks he will have taken the act. So I'll be done with that one.
Kate: Well done. It's a
Doree: Thats a big milestone.
Kate: Yes, it's a big milestone.
Tiffany: It's a huge milestone.
Kate: We often, and I'm going to switch gears completely. We often talk about skincare on our podcast and I really appreciated how you were like, I know it works for me and I've been doing, I know my earring, I know my nail polish. Does this apply for beauty products, skin, hair, makeup? Do you have any recommendations that you love and want to share?
Tiffany: Oh, thank you for asking this question. The first time I've ever been asked this question, so you should know, my mom was a Mary Kay consultant, which basically meant that from a very early age, I learned how to cleanse and tone and moisturize. So I would say that for me that's the consistency of the routine. I would, I can't remember going to bed since I was a teenager without cleansing and toning, and moisturizing, and in the morning whether I showered or not I cleansed and I toned, and I moisturized. And over the years I've evolved from noxzema products to Naturo products, which I use now as you evolve in your budget and your age kind of become wiser and we need more high level products. I guess I could put it that way. But for me it's the consistency and drinking lots of water. That's what she taught me. And it's been amazing I also love peels, and this avocado eye cream. I'm really into, and I dont use it just for my eyes by the way I slather it on my lips. It's kind of delicious.
Kate: Ooh, I think you're the first guest of ours who's ever put I, who's ever said I put eye cream on my lips. But that's like, why not? I put body cream on my face. It's like, yes. Yeah, obviously. Well, Tiffany, it's just been an absolute pleasure to get to talk to you today. Thank you for sharing so much of yourself with us and our listeners. Where can our listeners find you online? Find out more about you and the crew and your work?
Tiffany: Oh absolutely, you can go to thecru.com, we are CRU because I couldnt get the URL for the other spelling of the word I'm on pretty much everywhere. Tiffany Dufu or T or att Dufu. I think I'm the only Tiffany Dufu on the planet, so I'm easy to find.
Kate: Awesome. Well thank you so much.
Doree: This is really great to get to talk to you. Very inspired.
Tiffany: Oh, thank you.
Doree: Such a pleasure to have you.
Tiffany: Oh, it's a joy to be here,
Kate: Doree. That was fun.
Doree: That was really fun. And I think as we touched on a little bit in our conversation, her business model has shifted a bit and is really focused on corporate clients from what I understand. But it did make me want to adopt some of some of the things that she does in a crew, some of the things that a crew does in some, a group of women.
Kate: Totally. I had the same thought. I also actually took her advice and talked to my oldest daughter and I said, what are three things that I could do to be a better parent?
Doree: Wow Kate
Kate: Literally the day of our conversation that night,
Doree: What did she say?
Kate: well the first thing she said was, she was teasing me because there's kind of a running joke in the family about how, I always worry about how people might not have friends. And I think I drive my kids nuts. Cause I'm always like, do they have friends? How can we be empathetic? So
Doree: She was, oh, interesting, okay.
Kate: She was joking about that. But the biggest feedback she gave me is that when she's telling me something that is upsetting her to just listen and not try to provide the other person's side.
Doree: Oh, that's actually a really good, that's a very perceptive and thoughtful note.
Kate: So I've got a reign in that old devil's advocate, but I thought that was really helpful. I was like, this is great feedback.
Doree: That is really great feedback.
Kate: And I hope that for her, I hope that she felt seen just in that I asked and I want
Doree: That's very cool.
Kate: Because She was like, why are you asking? And I was like, well, I'm your mom. It's my job to be a good parent to you, so I want get your your thoughts on how I can parent you better. So it was cool. I was great advice from Tiffany. I thought I just,
Doree: That's very cool.
Kate: Her wisdom is already working its way into my life.
Doree: That's really cool.
Kate: Oh, well, onward to our intentions.
Doree: Here we go.
Kate: Crank. Get the little clips out on my neck before we start this up. Oh, okay. So look, I put last week as my intention was to put the four suitcases away that had been sitting in our bedroom for two weeks from our trip. We have a little attic that we have to access with a pull down ladder. It's like a little bit of a pain in the butt.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: I mean it's like amazing that we have an attic. I've never had an attic before, but it requires two seconds of work and we just hadn't done it. Well, I'm going to count this as a win.
Doree: Amazing.
Kate: Because on a Satur on the Saturday, I was like, Hey, we've got to put suitcases away. Let's do it today. And then I went and did a bunch of other stuff like plant a bunch of plants, and I came back inside the house and Anthony had put the suitcases in the attic all by himself.
Doree: That's very cool. And I just want you to know that as I was listening to last week's episode to do edits, I listened to that and I was reminded that you had said you were going to text me or I was going to text you, or the texts were going to be exchanged about the suitcases. And I did text you and I was like, did the suitcases get put away? And you were like, yes, they did. Yes. And I was very happy.
Kate: I love the accountability check in, it was, it's so helpful. It was very exciting to get to say yes. But I also just appreciated that you asked. So thank you for doing that.
Doree: Of course. I'm really glad that it happened.
Kate: So hilariously,
Doree: yes,
Kate: I'm traveling this weekend and need a suitcase, so I have to go back up to the attic.
Doree: Oh, l o l.
Kate: I know I'm going to Seattle for two nights to spend time with one of my best friends, maybe see another one of our best friends, and also see my four best friends, the band members of Phish. So I'm seeing two Phish shows. So my intention for this week is to travel smartly and light smartly travel smartly. I don't know if that's the correct grammar, but okay, I want to travel light. I want to really, and actually I had a thought, Doree.
Doree: Yes.
Kate: Normally I go up and grab the suitcase and then I find all the stuff I'm going to put into the suitcase. My thought this time was to lay out everything I think I need and look at it that way, and then edit so that I'm not just filling the suitcase, which I think is a thing I do.
Doree: Oh, interesting.
Kate: You see what I'm saying?
Doree: Yes.
Kate: Mentally I look at it, I'm like, I have this big bucket I can fill. Let me shove it full of all this stuff.
Doree: Yes. I lay things out first and pile and sort them. And I try to put outfits together. And what I did last time was I feel like this was based on a guest, and I'm blanking on who it was. Maybe it was Casey Davis, I don't know. But I went through and I wrote down all of the things that I was going to be doing on the trip.
Kate: Ok, I love it.
Doree: And thought about what I needed for each category of thing walking around New York City. And I checked the weather on a 50 degree day. What am I going to need to wear? What am I going to need to wear out to a nice dinner? What am I going to need to wear to just hang out in Connecticut with my brother and sister-in-law's family? You know what I mean?
Kate: And you packed to that
Doree: and I packed to that. And that was super helpful because of course there could be overlap.
Kate: Yes.
Doree: But it really helped me sort of visualize what I needed. And I think I packed pretty well if I do say so myself.
Kate: I bet you did. You looked great in every photo I saw.
Doree: Oh, thank you so much.
Kate: What is on your intention list this week, Doree?
Doree: Well, Kate, last week my intention was my tennis match.
Kate: Yay.
Doree: And I am here to report that my doubles partner and I, who has listened to the podcast,
Kate: shut up.
Doree: B t w. Yeah. I started following her on Instagram and she already followed me. And I was like, that's funny. But I assumed it was just like she had looked up everyone on the tennis team and followed them. And then she dmd me and she was like, I just put two and two together. I already follow you. I've listened to your podcast. I don't think she's like a regular listener, but she definitely had listened, which was so funny and something I didn't know beforehand. But anyway, she was very cool. Obviously we won our match.
Kate: Congratulations.
Doree: Thank you.
Kate: So proud of you.
Doree: It was really cool. Ugh. It was really cool.
Kate: I love that.
Doree: Any who this week I need to deal with the clothes on the chair. And what I mean by that is there's a bunch of clothes on a chair that I want to get rid of, that I want to sell. And I sold some of them, but I didn't sell all of them. And so now the ones that I didn't sell are just hanging out on the chair and I need to either sell them or give them away or do something else with them. And that is what I'm going to do this week. Clothes on the chair,
Kate: Clothes on the chair. Sounds like Alana Delray song.
Doree: It kind of does. Yep.
Kate: Well, Doree, let's sign off and tell our listeners that Forever35 is hosted and produced by you, Doree Shafrir and Kate Spencer. That's me. And it's produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast.
Doree: Bye everyone.
Kate: Bye.