Episode 253: True To Yourself with Kristen Chase
“We're supporting our kids and helping them understand that there are no bad feelings, negative feelings are okay, and they pass and we can overcome. And that makes me hopeful for what's to come not just for them, but for the world we live in. “
- Kristen Chase
Kate resonates with her word of the year and Doree feels stronger than yesterday. Then, author and podcaster Kristen Chase joins them to discuss dealing with the complexities of her own mother-daughter relationship while writing her novel A Thousand Miles to Graceland, how the best skincare recommendations come from her kids, and how tattooed quotes are a form of her self-care.
Photo Credit: Lucian Read
Mentioned in this Episode
Connect with Kristen Chase
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Transcript
Kate: Hello and welcome to Forever35. This is a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. And I'm Kate Spencer.
Doree: And I am Doree Shafrir.
Kate: And we're not experts.
Doree: No. But we're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: Okay. Here's the deal. You can visit our website Forever35podcast for links to everything we mentioned here, and you can find us on Instagram @Forever35podcast. There's a growing Facebook community. Join the Forever35 Facebook group where the password is serums. You can shop our favorite products shopmy.us/Forever35. Our newsletter can be found at Forever35podcast.com/newsletter. And if you want to talk to us to reach us, to text us, to leave us a voicemail, that number is (781) 591-0390. You can also email us at Forever35podcast@gmail.com.
Doree: Woo Kate. Woo. Thank you for all of that. I want,
Kate: yeah, I did.
I want to remind everyone that we are doing a live digital show to celebrate our fifth anniversary on Wednesday, February 22nd. It's going to be at 5:00 PM Pacific, 8:00 PM Eastern. You can get tickets at moment.co/forever35 tickets are $10. The show will also be available on demand for week after it airs to all ticket holders. So if you can't make it live, you can just watch it at your leisure and there's going to be an after party, so you can end the night with some final thoughts, some intentions, oh, and I forgot to mention, the party is of course, at Doree's Hotel.
Yeah. We'll be waiting for you. The hotel.
Doree: We will be waiting for you.
Kate: It's free to go. Well, no, it's not cost $10 to go to the hotel.
Doree: Pretty reasonable if you ask me to. For a hotel stay,
Kate: Five star hotel. For a five star,
Doree: Five Star hotel.
Kate: All inclusive experience.
Doree: Oh gosh.
Kate: Yeah. It seems like a good rate.
Doree: Totally. And we have another announcement. We are just so full of announcements today.
Kate: We are New year, new us.
Doree: This. New year, new us. Even though, Kate, you said you didn't want to do New Year new you.
Kate: No, you're right. Oh my God, what a hypocrite.
Doree: We are launching a new type of episode, I guess.
Kate: Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.
Doree: Yeah. So starting on Friday, we're going to have a new type of episode called Product Recall, where Kate and I discuss a product that, an iconic product, and we go real deep. Real, Real deep.
Kate: Yeah. We talk about the history or the story behind different products that we're curious about as well as what cemented their place in pop culture. Maybe the impact they had on the zeitgeist. This was kind of formed organically out of tangents that we like to go on, which is often like, oh my gosh, do you remember that thing? Oh yeah. What were we all thinking? It took a hold of all of us. So this is really kind of a fun space for us to explore a little bit deeper, these kind of either products or moments that intrigue us. So we are very excited to kick it off. We look forward to your suggestions and feedback. We'll still be doing many episodes with listener texts, emails, messages on Mondays main episodes like this one on Wednesdays. And then Product Recall, we are trying it out on Fridays.
Doree: I'm so excited. We've already recorded the first couple. I'm not going to say what they are, but
Kate: Oh my gosh. It was a blast though.
Doree: It was a blast. I'm really excited to keep recording these.
Kate: I am too. It was really fun. And it also, I think both you and I as you're, you have a way more journalistic background than I do, but it's like people who I think enjoy digging and research and asking questions, I think it really scratched an itch for both of us that maybe has needed some scratching.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Did you feel that way?
Doree: Yes, a thousand percent.
Kate: Yeah.
Doree: It felt really good.
Kate: It did. And I can't wait to see what kind of conversations come out of the products and topics we discuss on Fridays.
Doree: And we are also open to suggestions. So if you have a product that you want to talk about, that you want us to talk about, please let us know.
Kate: Yeah. Give a listen to the first episode so you get a sense of the vibe, and then hit us up on the geems.
Doree: Hit us up on the old geems.
Kate: Well, Doree, I just wanted to note, I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's because I'm, I'm at the final third of Prince Harry's memoir where he's digging deep into therapy or the new year or what, but I am really resonating with the kind of word I chose as my little focal point for 2023. I choose a word every year.
Doree: Okay. I'm listening
Kate: Now most of the time I forget the word by march and I don't think of it again.
Doree: Sure.
Kate: So that is what probably will happen with this word.
Doree: Okay.
Kate: Which I think I've already mentioned it here on the podcast, but I resonated with the word gentle. I've definitely talked about this in my personal newsletter. That is the word that kind of landed for me. And I, it is like, I don't know if it's because I have kind of thought of it intentionally now I'm just seeing it everywhere or feeling it everywhere. But I have been just really reevaluating how I'm caring for myself in the wake of, as you hear nonstop in our private conversations, me trying to get to the bottom of my long covid lingering symptoms. Poor Doree.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Doree is privy, privy to so much. But what that has really entailed is me being gentle with both myself, my body, the people in my life. I don't know. That word is just really, I'm just seeing it everywhere. I, I'm wondering if anybody else has a practice like this where they doesn't need to be a resolution, because I find those kind of so nineties we don't need resolutions.
Doree: I do think it is one of those things though it, or I don't want to say it is, but it could be one of those things where once you acknowledge something or you speak something into existence, you start seeing it everywhere.
Kate: Totally. I think that is what's happening. And it's probably been a building up for the last months because I've been changing a lot of aspects of my life and they all kind of center on this idea of being more gentle, nourishing myself, more really tapping in and listening to my needs. And I think I've always said that, but it's often involved pushing myself to do things. And the way I am thinking of it right now is up pulling back.
Doree: Okay. Okay.
Kate: I also got to say, this is definitely coming from doing my yoga with Adrian videos every day.
Doree: Okay.
Kate: I don't know, daily yoga is starting. I've been doing daily, mostly daily yoga since the end of November. And I feel like it's starting to have an impact in my mental health, which is one of the reasons I loved yoga when I first started many, many years ago.
Doree: That is so cool.
Kate: Well, today I'm feeling like optimistic. Some days I'm in a hole and I'm like, but today I'm, I don't know. I'm leaning into the gentle side of things.
Doree: I really, really love this for you.
Kate: Thank you. I appreciate your gentle approach to me.
Doree: Do you remember how I told you that I was taking that strength class twice a week at my gym?
Kate: Yes.
Doree: So I've been doing it.
Kate: The instructor changed the music,
Doree: The instructor changed the music, although she now plays the same playlist every class. And I'm like, okay. At least to me, this is better than the horrible music she was playing before. So if I have to listen to that Megan Trainor song about, oh, your Gucci on.
Kate: Oh I hate that song.
Doree: Yeah, it, it is what it is. But anyway, I've been doing the class twice a week. It's on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and the first couple of weeks that I did the class, I literally could barely walk for three days. It was so hard. And now I'm fine.
Kate: Hey! You're getting stronger.
Doree: I'm getting stronger. I can feel it.
Kate: That's so exciting.
Doree: So that's cool. Yeah. So that's been fun.
Kate: Ooh, that's great. Congratulations. That's really cool.
Doree: That's just my update. Okay. Kate, do you want to introduce our guest?
Kate: Oh, I would love to.
Doree: Okay.
Kate: We had such a fun chat with our guest today. Kristen Chase, Kristen's a writer and she also currently hosts the Spawn with Kristen and Liz podcast, which is an award-winning parenting podcast. She is the publisher and c e o of the Cool Mom picks network. And what's even more exciting is that her debut novel called A thousand Miles to Graceland, comes out now today it's out. And it's just a really wonderful, smart, heartwarming read about a mother-daughter road trip to Graceland. And she's also the author of an upcoming children's book called We Are American Too, which comes out later this year. And she previously wrote and published The Mama Matrixx Guide to Sex, a whole book about sex from a mom's point of view. Kristen is, I mean, we talked about everything. Tattoos mental health, teens teaching her about skincare. She is a mom of four and her teens teach her about skincare and products. May we all be so lucky to have a teen tell us how to wash our face,
Doree: All right. We'll be right back with Kristen.
Kate: Kristen, welcome to Forever35. We're thrilled to have you, not just because you are a person who is older than 35, though we do love when our guests are our age.
Kristen: Oh, I'm something so excited to be here. Are you kidding me? Yay. I am huge fans.
Doree: Yay.
Kate: Well buckle up because we've got a lot of questions for you, but we always like to start with a self-care practice. And so if you don't mind, could you share something that you consider self-care that you do in your daily life?
Kristen: That is a great question. And I have to say that my self-care routine, if you will, has evolved over the last few years. Initially it was like bath salts in the bathtub every night and watching a terrible dating show. And now it's added in make sure you make your OB/GYN appointments, right? Because it's expanded beyond the relaxation to the actual physical and mental health self care. But the one thing that I really try to do every single day right before I go to sleep, I make sure that my little journal and my pen are right next to me so that I am prompted to do it. But I actually just take a second to write down a quote or something interesting that I heard. I listen to a lot of audio books. I listen to a lot of podcasts, no surprise. And oftentimes I'll hear something that I want to remember, and in the past I had just sort of jotted it down on a scrap paper or in a notebook, some random place and how the story is going to end. Yeah, I don't remember any of those quotes. So I really try to do that at the end of each day. And I've only been doing, this is a new practice. I've only been doing this since the new year, and I have to say it's kind of my favorite thing. And it's not journaling because I'm not a journal journaler, I should say. And I have difficulty with it and it stresses me out. So this is super relaxed and it feels like a little bit of also a memory test. So there you go.
Kate: Oh, talk about killing two birds with one stone slash middle age perimenopause issues, which I don't know if you're experiencing, but I do feel like the memory stuff is starting to become more of a thing.
Kristen: It is 100% a thing, and it's not a thing. I feel like you hear people and they talk about it and they're just like, oh, well, they don't have my memory. And then you're sitting watching a movie and you do the thing that's probably annoying to most people, but you think is really cool. Or you name everyone and what they had been in and you can't even remember the main star. So yes, in the throes of that myself, for sure.
Kate: Yeah. Doree, this reminds me when we started the podcast early on, Doree shared that she keeps a notepad on her bedside table and it's kind of her space for to-dos or just things that you want to remember. And I know Doree, you've kind of circled back to that practice in and out. Kristen, I'm curious for you, was there something that kind of made you decide you're going to figure out a concrete way to do this? You mentioned the more scattered process, but did you have a moment where you were just like, you know what, I'm going to get a journal and a pen put on my bedside table, and that's going to be my little memory book where I jot down, was there something that just so, because I feel like we often have these ideas about practices that we're going to start, but there's always this moment where it shifts from idea in our brain that sounds really good to action.
Kristen: Well, what happened to me is that I wrote a few paragraphs of a new book idea that I had in my everyday sort of to-do list book. And I tossed it.
Kate: Oh God.
Kristen: Because that's what I do. I finish my little to-do list book because it's not really pretty. It ain't no bullet journal with pretty designs my teenager makes. It is ugly. So I write and then I just toss it and it feels good, and I open up a new one, and I lost a lot of really good stuff. So that was one thing. The other thing is that I just love journals. I love date books. And I'm like, what can I do with a date book? I want to buy a date book. What can I do with it? Which I know is sort of backwards, right? But that's what happened to me. I was in this lovely Japanese bookstore in downtown Philadelphia, which is near where I live. I live in the suburbs. And I was like, Ooh, this is really nice. What can I do with this? And I guess the third thing is that I like to get tattoos of quotes. And so I was like, I can't keep covering myself in quotes, so maybe I should just write them in a book and keep them there. And maybe that will allow me to feel more like a closeness to them as opposed to having them tattooed all over my arms.
Kate: Wait, I love this because I saw you shared a quote, tattoo quote on your Instagram recently.
Kristen: I did, yes.
Kate: But I didn't know it was a big practice for you that you'd have multiple ones.
Kristen: I have many quotes actually. So I have,
Doree: Wait, can I ask a question? Sorry
Kristen: Yes, go for it.
Doree: I have a question about this. Are there any quotes that you had tattooed on your body that you feel like no longer sort of resonate for you? Or is everything on your body something that is still very meaningful for you?
Kristen: I resonate with everything that I have tattooed on myself, and I've been very, I guess I want to say strategic, right? That's such, just such a Gen X content strategist word. I'm very strategic with my tattoos, but I actually am, I think a lot about them, and I am very careful about what I decide to put on me. I will say that I've been looser as I've gotten older, I guess. But my arms are pretty much, they're not a sleeve by any means, but they have a fair amount of black tattoos, and a lot of them are quotes, some of them are just words. So I have Grace, which is my main character in my book, A thousand Miles to Graceland, but it has many meetings for me and for her. And then I have the word enough, which was something I did after I got out of a really difficult situation and also had some family trauma things that I was dealing with. And then the one that you saw, Kate, was we were made to burn, which is something I saw during watching a documentary about Asians and Asian Americans. And it just really resonated with me. And I have a couple things that my kids have said to me. So I have all sorts of things I have to look. Yeah. So my daughter said, you make my life so much better. And so I had that tattooed on me. You can do hard things. And quite honestly, it has become a way for me to just be able to look down and remember those moments. I guess, I suppose it's in some ways self-care, right? So just looking down and seeing all these powerful things. But to your point, Doree, I feel like the journal has helped me because I do want to continue on my track record of loving all my tattoos. So yes, I have a little separation.
Doree: Love that. I love that. I feel like I would get paralyzed with indecision if I were doing that, and I think I would worry too much. So I like that you have the sort of confidence in your own decision making to commit to those quotes on your body.
Kate: Can I just ask about, you mentioned, you said we were made to burn, which I noted this on your Instagram, and you said it was a line from a documentary that you had watched called the Professor Tai Chi's Journey West, and that it resonated with you. What does that quote mean or symbolize in the context of the documentary and also to you?
Kristen: So I think it has various different meanings, and I think the cool thing about quotes and poems and even books in some way is that what the artist, writer or the writer intended may not necessarily be what the people get from it. And I know that firsthand is a former musician and now as a writer. So for me in the context of that story, it was really about the hardships that Asian people endured coming to America. And we are not really familiar with Asian American history. I, as someone who is a second, well, third generation American Chinese person. I mean, my great-grandfather was actually the second American born Chinese person in Washington DC. So there is significant history in my family, and I really, until I started writing the novel, honestly did not know enough. And I still don't feel like I know enough. So one of the things was learning about what we endured when we came here, what our ancestors endured, why we had to become dry cleaners and my family restaurateurs, and how we built the railroads and all of those things. And to me, it just meant that we just kept burning. A fire, the candle was glowing and people were trying to bring us down, and it just wasn't possible, right? Because we are fire, we are ignited, and nothing is going to stop us. So that is how I interpreted it, and I think that is really what it was about in that documentary, which I highly recommend, by the way. It was so fascinating, and I think for everyone to watch just to understand the practice of Tai Chi and what it is all about. Again, it was new to me. And so that's been part of how I've been teaching myself about my own history. And I will say this, the first tattoo, actually, the first few tattoos I ever got were homages, if you will, to my Asian culture. They're all dragons because I'm the year of the dragon. So it's kind of cool that I've kept that up, even though I've added different tattoos. Let's be honest, my first tattoo is a tramp stamp. Ladies,
Kate: Is it a butterfly?
Kristen: My lower back?
Kate: Yeah. Mine is too.
Kristen: But it is my middle name, which is Chinese.
Kate: Okay.
Kristen: So there it is. So I did have, it's kind of interesting that tattoos were initially the way that I connected personally with my Asian culture and how it's kind of come for full circle for me with the book and then now this recent tattoo. And also just my interest in learning more about my family and our culture.
Kate: Okay. Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. All right. We are back. You mentioned a thousand miles to Graceland. Can you give us, give our listeners a brief synopsis and then maybe discuss the kind of research that you did and how it connected to your own understanding of your own family history?
Kristen: Absolutely. So a thousand Miles to Graceland is this super fun, very heartfelt road trip that Grace Johnson, who's a 40 something mixed race, Asian American woman, decides kind of reluctantly to take her mother, who's about to turn 70. Her name's Laura Lynn. She's Chinese American. She is a super Elvis fan. And so Grace reluctantly decides to drive her mother from El Paso, Texas all the way to Memphis, Tennessee. And so there's all sorts of shenanigans and healing. And you know what you might imagine taking a road trip with your mother, if those of you are in relationships with your mother still or your mother's still here, what that would be like, as an adult especially when your relationship is a little fraught, so you feel as though you are a different person and then your mother sees you as, so Grace grew up in Texas, but moved right away to Boston and sort of left her mother and was embarrassed by her and was really someone who had experienced trauma and had left as a way to cope. And so this coming together of both of them on this trip is really about healing for both of them. So for me, a lot of the research was really fun because I got to learn more about Elvis, and I got to explore more of the south. So I actually lived in the South. I lived in Mississippi, I lived, oh wow. 45 minutes from Tupelo, which is Elvis's birthplace. And I used to go to the mall there, but can you believe I never, ever went to Elvis's birthplace? Ugh, I a fraud.
Kate: Yes I can.
Doree: No, I can't.
Kate: You never go to the amazing historical things that are at your fingertips when you're there.
Kristen: I know.
Kate: Forgive yourself for that.
Kristen: I'm going to forgive myself for that.
Doree: Can I ask where the interest in Graceland, and Elvis came from?
Kristen: That is such a good question, Doree, and I have no idea. I started this book almost 10 years ago, and all I remember is that there was this idea that popped into my head about a senior citizen who was super sassy from the south, who wore sequins and leopard print and chunky shoes and didn't care and wore big wigs and just loved Elvis much to the chagrin of her daughter who was, I don't want to say Grace is conservative, but is just, come on what you know, are over the top mom. It was embarrassing. So I don't know actually where it came from. I was never really an Elvis fan. My mom is not an Elvis fan. I do joke that my mom is very religious, so she worships a different kind of king, a good one. But other, other than that, I don't really know where that interest came from.
Doree: Okay, fair enough.
Kate: What timing too, I mean, with the movie coming out, and I mean, awful to note Lisa Marie Presley's passing, but yeah, I And you, I also noticed that you wrote about her recently too.
Kristen: I did. It's interesting. The movie was coming out and that was in the works as I was pitching this, and I did have a lot of agents tell me, nobody cares about Elvis anymore. Elvis is just not a thing. And I was like, cool, cool. I mean, there's a big movie coming out, but, and there's also a Priscilla movie in the works. I don't know if you two knew that. So that's happening. And then of course, recently, very recently, the passing of Lisa Marie, which is someone who is close to my age. And I think for my friends, I'm in my older forties, 46, and I have lots of friends in their early fifties. And so plus she suffered a great loss with her son during the pandemic. So I think that suddenly this huge icon became very relatable in many ways for a lot of people due to the movie, due to some of the challenges that Lisa Marie had been going through.
Kate: I mean, it's interesting too, just your book focuses on the mother-daughter relationship and just noting her relationship with her own mom. But there's a lot of trauma and pain and healing that comes up that I think is incredibly relatable for many of us, most of us who are daughters. There is that is a very strange and unique relationship that we have with our mothers. Did you find in writing it that there was a therapeutic aspect for you? Did it kind of help you understand yourself as a daughter or your relationship to your own mother
Kristen: So much. I mean, I cannot even tell you or express to you how much this book changed my relationship with my mother. Wow. It was life changing and what has been so wonderful, because we have people who get the book early and they've read it, and that's been the biggest comment that I've gotten. Right, yeah. It's like it's a surprise because you look at the cover and it, it's fun. It's a road trip. It is funny. I would tell people it is funny.
Doree: It's got a romance.
Kate: There's a little romances.
Kristen: Yeah, there's some romance,
Kate: Its got everything.
Kristen: Yes. It's funny. It is also very heartfelt, and I think people are surprised by how intense some of the emotions are that do come up for them for a variety of reasons for the race and culture and the mother daughter relationship and some of the trauma. But I also think that, well, I don't think I know that. The other thing that people are telling me is I'm seeing the relationship with my mother differently because of your book. I have more empathy, I have more understanding for the choices that my mom made. And I am amazed by that and also very heartened to hear that because that is what happened to me. Really, truly, that's what happened to me. I was writing this a story about a woman becoming more vulnerable in her life by opening up and trying to figure out why her mother made the choices she was making. And I had no clue about what was going on with my mom. My mom and I were estranged as well, in many ways, was very fraught relationship. And I was doing the edits for this, and I'm thinking, I'm writing a character who's becoming more vulnerable. What am I doing? It felt really disingenuous, actually. I felt a little bit like a fraud that I was writing this character and I wasn't doing it myself. So I called my mom, oh gosh, we had a two and a half hour meal. There was a lot of crying at the Mexican food factory in Mount Laurel, New Jersey. And wow, I had so much clarity and understanding about our relationship, about the choices that she made. And then now, fast forward three years later, because books take forever, she just read it. And two weeks ago actually, and we had another huge conversation based interestingly enough about the book discussion questions. So those of you in book clubs, it's a great book club book because it'll bring up a lot of really great conversations. Turns out it happened with my mom, because my mom calls me and goes, so the question in the back asks if, you know, think Laura Lynn should have left that difficult situation with her husband? Is that about us?
Kate: Wow.
Kristen: And I was like yes, it is, mom. Yes it is. And so just two weeks ago we had a conversation, and here's the thing about it, and you relate because you have been a non-fiction writer, Kate, I only wrote non-fiction, now I'm writing fiction. It's hard to make the jump and not have parts of your life and situations play out in your novel that actually happened in real life. So in a way, I was like, oh gosh, here we go. My mom's going to read this and she's going to be like we need to talk. But it actually was that, but it turned out to be a positive. And I'm hearing from other folks that it's a positive for them too.
Doree: Have your kids read the book?
Kristen: No. And they're terrible children. Well, I love my kids. I love my children. It's funny, they're all old enough to read it. There's nothing really that they can't see or do. Listen, I wrote a sex book for moms 12 years ago, so this is tame, right? This is a walk in the park. So my oldest was super excited. She grabbed the arc or the galley right away, and they are very proud of me, and they're all bringing a friend to my book signing, which I don't know if that's a good idea or not. I'm just going to go with that. It's a good idea. They're all really proud of me.
Kate: Yes. Oh my God. Yes, I
Kristen: I know.
Kate: It's wonderful.
Doree: So nice that they want to do that.
Kristen: I know. They're so excited for me. So I mean, maybe it's just because they've heard me talk about it so much. It kind of feels like a sibling to them, right? It's like my fifth child, but they haven't read it. And I feel like maybe if I can get on BookTok that my teenagers will, then
Doree: That's how you're going to get respect.
Kristen: That is. I need some respect from, I need to get on that BookTok table at Barnes and Noble.
Kate: Oh, dont we all. Don't we all need to get be on the BookTok table. I know. I walk by and I'm like, what will it take? Somebody BookTok me
Kristen: I Know. Well, lemme tell you this. My oldest is a cosplayer and she has 200,000 followers on TikTok. So if I can could figure out a way. So maybe we do an Elvis Coplay. Do you know what I mean?
Doree: What
Kate: What does it mean that she's a cos player on TikTok? Does she do different characters or? She's one main Character.
Kristen: She does different characters. So she does a variety of different anime characters. She creates all of her own work. She competes in competitions.
Kate: That's right. And she's like designs costumes, right?
Kristen: She does, yes.
Kate: Wow.
Kristen: So she's working right now on a portfolio to go to fashion school.
Kate: Oh my Goodness.
Kristen: But I'm like, okay, you have a lot of followers on TikTok books Do well on TikTok. What can I do to market my child?
Kate: Wait, this is amazing. You have an influencer child?
Kristen: I do. I do. Although she's like, I'm not an influencer mom, but I'm like, where did she gets contact lenses sent to her? Right? Because she uses different contact lenses. So I'm like,
Kate: Thats an influencer.
Kristen: She's an influencer. So can you, my main character Laura Lynn is a character, right? She's got beehive wigs and she wears all kinds of leopard print and platform shoes. Can you just do a cosplay of her and hold my book up?
Kate: Yes. Come on. You gave birth to this person. They've got to give back in some way.
Kristen: I know, I know. Exactly. Just a little thing. But as they say, it is not part of their brand. So anyway, until they make an Elvis Presley anime, I may be out of luck.
Doree: So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back. Okay, we're back.
Kate: You mentioned to me before we started talking that your teenage children have influenced your skincare choices and your skincare practices. Could you share what that has been like?
Kristen: Well, they're a wealth of knowledge because everything is on YouTube and TikTok now, they have so much access to really incredible people who do incredible things with skincare and makeup, and they watch these things and can replicate them. So I figure I'm cutting out the middle person. I'm just going straight to my source and I'm like, so I, and I actually took notes because I know I was going to talk to you ladies. I have a benign lentigo. Is that how you say it? Do you know what that is? Have you heard of that?
Kate: No. Okay. I can Google it right now.
Kristen: So it's a benign, and it is basically a dark spot on your face. And the dermatologist was like, you're just getting older. I was like, that's all I, that's all I did. She's like, yes. And when you were young, you probably didn't use sunscreen. And I'm like, yes, because yes. And so that's all it is. But as an educated woman as myself did, what did I do when I saw this on my face? I did not call my dermatologist. We don't do that. What do we do? We put 14,000 different things on our face. I was using my daughter's acne medicine. I was asking her what she thought it was, and she was telling me, it looks like you need to moisturize it, which is actually true. All of these things. So anyway, that happened. And of course, who did I go to first? I went to first my 18 year old, because she is like, especially into K beauty and Asian beauty products. So I always go to them first when it comes to anything skincare, because they all know everything
Kate: Yea, they do,
Kristen: They know it all. But why are they still taking my makeup then? What I like, I can't find my mascara. They do this all the time. They take my super fancy eye cream, which I know Kate, when we talked the last time on my podcast bond, we were talking about eye cream. You are 12, what are you losing sleep over? You dont need an eye cream. That was probably $80. So I don't know why they keep taking my stuff if they're influencing me, but I do go to them for suggestions. And let me tell you this, parents of teens, this is the way to connect with your teenagers because they are more than happy to tell you what to do, right? Let's be honest.
Kate: Yes. And what you're doing wrong,
Kristen: Oh, Exactly. So if you want to connect with your teenagers, just ask them what you should be wearing on your face. And nine times out of 10, whether whoever is in your family, they're also connected, they will be more than happy to tell you what to be, what you're doing wrong and what you should be doing. My relationship with makeup and skincare, but I would say more makeup than skincare for me was always about looking prettier or looking different. And I think especially as someone with who's biracial, right, it is a lot of times it's blending in or not standing out. And now so much has changed. There are so many great, and I speak specific to Asian, but Asian owned beauty brands. And there are so many wonderful influencers are show who are showing you how to deal with your double lid or your epi campic fold, which is in my book, the opening, which is that little fold that many Asian people have that makes it very challenging to do inner liner rate. It's very difficult. Or how to do a cat eye if you have an almond shaped eye. So I love that makeup and skincare are really helping teenagers to show they're different, show how their skin and their appearance is different and allow them to stand out when for so long it was really used. And I know I'm not saying it's over, but it was used in some ways to marginalize people.
Kate: Yeah, definitely. And I just, it's so, it must be so interesting to be able to reflect on your own experience and then observe your own kids navigating it in a different way.
Kristen: It feels hopeful. I think as anyone who is a parent can relate when you see something that was so challenging for you, and also that is in some ways still present, but they are now armed with the ability to overcome, right? And they're or manage it, which in some ways it's just managing it. And I talk in the book, there's a lot of this idea that being uncomfortable is bad, feelings are bad, hard feelings are bad. And to see Grace eventually figure out that that's not the case because she experiences anxiety and is able to work through that and understand where that is coming from. And I say this too about our kids and being able to sit in discomfort and having parents who are willing to walk them through. And I don't say it's coddling so much as when we we're walking side by side, we're supporting our kids and helping them understand that there are no bad feelings, negative feelings are okay, and they pass and we can overcome. And that makes me hopeful for what's to come not just for them, but for the world we live in.
Kate: I think more and more in the characters I read in stories, mental health is becoming an experience that we're seeing on the page and then helping us feel more seen as readers. And I would just love to ask you to share your own mental health journey and how it led you to create characters that are dealing with things like panic attacks.
Kristen: Well, this one is really cut from my own life. The first, the story actually that Grace tells about her first panic attack did actually happen to me in many ways. I had never experienced that before. Honestly, as I look back now, can see that I was an am, a very anxious person but had never experienced a panic attack. And for me, it felt like my blood sugar was dropping, which is something that has happened before, which has also then made me think, whoa, maybe that was actually a panic attack. And I didn't know. And at the time I was like, oh, I haven't eaten very much. I was a very heavy coffee drinker. I had just walked a ton around a city and I just was feeling woozy and Oh, I just need orange juice. And I just kept ordering orange juice from the bar, glasses and glasses and it wouldn't stop. And I was like, oh my gosh, what is happening? What is going on? And that was the first time that I experienced something like that. And I ended up kind of walking around the block and was able to find my breath, which is so important, and find support and just be like, that is horrible. And I can't imagine. I had heard friends and family members talk about it. And I think until you've experienced it, it's a little difficult. Mean we can all have empathy, but to actually experience it and feel that, I know it's different for so many people, but feel that struggle. I all of a sudden had instant empathy. And then this idea, okay, what is going on here? Why now? Why is this happening? And for a few years from that point on, I discovered it was probably a combination of a few things. I was taking an antidepressant, which really wasn't, I don't think what I needed. I probably needed something to help with the anxiety. It just wasn't a great combination. I was also, and this is where Grace comes in, my character, I was also living a life that wasn't authentic. I was pushing away feelings. And people talk about panic attacks and anxiety attacks in many different ways, but one of them is just, for me personally, it's about not letting go. I can't let go. I must hold on. I must keep it together. And the process of doing that right causes your body great stress. And what I discovered is if I could get myself to the point of crying, if I could let go and get to the point of the sadness, what I say is, I say, get to the sadness that I was able to then find my way, I guess you could say. So for me, it was really about not living my authentic life and being in a relationship that was not abusive, not bad, just not good for me. It wasn't where I needed to be. And I have noticed over time in doing work in therapy and exploring that more deeply, that when I am able to be true to myself and have the feelings, we hear that all the time. Just have your feelings, having my feelings. So that allowed me to really work through that. I still do have anxiety. I do still have panic attacks and mine are typically brought on from physical symptoms. So I'll be super hot outside and my heart rate will go up, or I'll drink too much coffee and my heart rate will go up and my body is like, you're in trouble when actually I just had a really delicious espresso. And so I'm at the point now in my practice, right, in therapy and in my own self-care practice where I can, most of the time use positive self-talk, use, breathing the 4 78, which is really powerful for me, which I believe is in the book and various different techniques to really center myself and bring myself back. But I still oftentimes do have to take medicine and I still carry a prescription around, which actually helps me. And I still see a therapist where I talk about it. So it's ongoing. But for sure the time where it was the biggest issue was really about not living authentically, not being true to myself and not allowing myself to be free. Really. I felt very shackled.
Kate: Well, you capture it in a really authentic way, which resonates with me as someone with a generalized anxiety disorder.
Kristen: I appreciate hearing that.
Kate: Yeah, no, seriously. And I think it really helps, you know, can tell when folks write about anxiety or a character has anxiety, who's create, who's kind of creating it from thin air and who's actually describing not necessarily lived experience, but an understood experience. And that I appreciate as someone who,
Kristen: Well, we think about representation and we think about it, of course, culturally, which is so important. But I also feel like we need to think about it from mental health, physical health, ability representation. All of those things really, really come into play when we're reading. And I think sometimes, I can't even believe I'm saying this, but the first book that I have read with a white parent and a Chinese parent was like three weeks ago. I mean, how is that even possible? Everything I Never Told You the Celeste Ng book, and I have never felt more seen. And I can't even describe the feeling, and I have talked about representation for a really long time, but to experience that myself, to read a character, read a family that looked like mine, that was experiencing the issues that I imagine my parents were experiencing that they never talked about was so powerful. So I imagine as a person, like you said, you experienced anxiety. And for other people who've experienced some of the things in the book, like trauma or alcoholism or any of those things, or a difficult relationship with your mother, the more we're able to do that, I just feel like the more people are able to feel heard and seen and that that's just what I want more of. It's just for people to feel heard and seen and accepted.
Kate: Well, Kristen, I think you do it with this book. Where can our listeners follow you, find out more about you, find your work if they want to learn more?
Kristen: So I am @thatKristen, and I am K R I S T E N, right? I've spent my whole life doing that.
Kate: That is an important distinction
Kristen: Yes, on Twitter and because of a very annoying moment with Instagram where they were banning breastfeeding photos. I'm @thatKristenagain, on Instagram.
Kate: Oh my goodness.
Kristen: Because I was so angry with Instagram that I got off, but I lost my handle. So I'm @thatKristenagain, because I'm also really creative with handles on Instagram, and all of my work is at Kristen Mei Chase, it's m e i, KristenMeiChase.com. So you can find me all of those places. I love, I chat with you on messages. So I love chatting, I love hearing from people, and I love talking about anything. It doesn't necessarily just have to be about the book. We can talk about teenagers and I don't know anything else. I'm always open to chatting.
Kate: Kristin, thank you so much for coming on the pod. So glad to have you. Kristen is someone who really seems like she has her shit together. I really, really loved what she was talking about with getting quotes and words tattooed on her body. I just thought she had such a unique and interesting perspective about that. I don't know that relationship to learning moments or things you want to remember and how to kind of memorialize them and doing it so close to yourself. I just was thought it was really beautiful. I loved it. That's really cool. I loved her story about her most recent one.
Doree: Yeah, it was she, yeah, she was just so cool.
Kate: She's pretty cool. I know, I know. You wish we live near her and we can be friends.
Doree: Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do.
Kate: Alas,
Doree: Kate.
Kate: Yes.
Doree: Did you plan out a year long cleaning schedule
Kate: LOL No, I didn't. But I did clean out. I did organize what I call the dog drawers and the counter above the dog drawers. The dog drawers is where all the dog's stuff lives and it's just was just a big pile of junk. So I did do that, and it had been driving me nuts. Every morning I'd go and get their biscuit and I'd be like, I hate these fucking drawers. I got to clean them. And then one morning I was like, today's the day. That being said, a lot of folks sent great recommendations. I mean, Struggle Care is a person. We are recommended a lot. I follow her. She's a Dream podcast guest but some of her products were suggested, which is interesting to me, so I'm going to look at some of their stuff. But other people sent me all sorts of links of very realistic cleaning plans. So I'm going to dig into those. So thank you so much for sending me those. And they were very grounded, realistic, actual human cleaning plans and not perfect mom influencer cleaning plans. So I appreciate that. This week I'm going to try to do one short loving kindness meditation. So it's a very specific meditation practice that I have done before. And I actually think it would really benefit me right now and probably always, but specifically I just was like, this is, I think what I want to focus on this week in terms of talking about being gentle and my own self care. I think this is it for me. So I'm going to find one loving kindness meditation and do it, and I'll try to share, if I actually accomplish this, I'll share a link to one that I did next week.
Doree: Love this.
Kate: How about you, Doree?
Doree: So last week I wanted to rest the work slash power back, which I honestly don't even remember what I meant by that, but I think I am doing that and I've been scheduling actual time to write, and I do feel like I'm kind of getting a little bit more oriented, situated.
Kate: Nice work. Okay,
Doree: So that feels good. Thank you. And then this week, okay, so we got new dishes, and in the process of clearing away the old dishes and putting the new dishes back, I like rearranged some things. And then I was like, okay, there's a corner of the kitchen counter that is just like a doom pile corner. And I need to just un-doom it. So I did.
Kate: I love that. Un-doom it.
Doree: And now this kind of goes back to a conversation we were having recently. I want to keep it un-doomed, and I'm now accepting of the idea. I have accepted the idea that it's an ongoing process. You don't just declutter once and then you're done. You have to always be checking in on it. So that's what I'm going to try to do. Well, this has been great, and we'll talk to you all in a couple days with our first product recall.
Kate: Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
Doree: Meantime, I know it's going to be good though. Okay. Forever35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir and Kate Spencer, and produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager, and our network partner is Acast. Bye everybody.
Kate: Bye.