Kate enjoys a new night time ritual and Doree hunts for the perfect cute summer hat. Then, Traci Thomas of The Stacks podcast joins them to talk about what it really means for a book to be a beach read, her extensive reading and book tracking systems, and why she has used the same seven beauty products since high school. 

Mentioned in this Episode

• One Line A Day Journal

• One Minute Gratitude Journal

• Barriere Tye-Dye Sun Hat

• “The best hat”

• Madewell the packable hat

• Sloggers Women's Wide Brim Braided UPF 50+ Hat (Light Brown)

• Paul mitchell leave in conditioner

• Herbal Essences Color Me Happy for Colored Hair

• Herbal Essences Curl Gel

• JERGENS Daily Moisture Dry Skin Moisturizer

• SuperGoop Glow Stick Sunscreen

• Dove Deep Moisture Body Wash

• Clinique Mascara

• Blood In The Water by Heather Ann Thompson

• SnapHabit

• Seven Days In June by Tia Williams

• Station Eleven by Emily St John Mandel

• Born A Crime by Trevor Noah

  • Traci recommends the audiobook!

• Tiny Beautiful Things: Advice on Love and Life from Dear Sugar by Cheryl Strayed 

• Bad Blood by John Carreyrou

• Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynasty by Patrick Radden Keefe 

• South To America by Imani Perry

• The Movement That Made Us by David Dennis Jr

• Shine Bright by Danyel Smith

• The Palace Papers by Tina Brown

• Goodreads

• Libby

• Scribd

• Libro.fm

• Storygraph

• Nightcrawling by Leila Mottley 

• It Was All a Dream: Biggie and the World That Made Him by Justin Tinsley 

• The Man Who Could Move Clouds by Ingrid Rojas Contreras 

• Fruit of the Drunken Tree by Ingrid Rojas Contreras 

• I Cried To Dream Again by Sara Kruzan

• Exit West by Mohsin Hamid

• The Last White Man by Mohsin Hamid

• The Stacks Podcast

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Transcript

Kate: Hello, and welcome two for over 35, a podcast, all about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I am Kate Spencer

Doree: And I am Doree Shafrir,

Kate: And we are not experts.

Doree: No, but we are two friends who like to talk a lot about CR

Kate: You can visit our website forever 35 podcast.com for links to everything we mention on the show. You can follow us on Twitter, where we don't tweet at forever 35 pod on Instagram, where we do gram at forever 35 podcast. And you can join the forever 35 Facebook group where the password to join is serums.

Doree: Yes. Um, also on our shop, my shelf, you can shop our favorite pros and that is@shopmyshelf.us slash five. You can also sign up for our newsletter five podcast.com/newsletter and call or text us at (781) 591-0390. You can also email us Gmail.

Kate: My skin has been feeling a little dry because I've been using my tretinoin two times a week. Uh, and I just sprayed on this 1 0 7 dewy glow serum mist to kind of hydrate my skin. And it feels very nice. I don't know if you heard me misting in the background, everybody, but you know what? That's I can do that on this podcast.

Doree: You can, this is a missed friendly podcast.

Kate: Yes. And, uh, we love all mists here. All mists are welcome, whether it's just a water mist or you're doing a serum mist, whatever you bring to the table is fine with us.

Doree: <laugh> Kate.

Kate: Mm.

Doree: You have a surprise for me. Let's talk about this.

Kate: Okay. Well, after so many guests and you, for years reiterating the importance, the value, the meaning, the joy of a one line a day journal. I revisited my commitment to a one line a day journal. Now I did something that only that I typically do, which is I had to buy a brand new one. I had one that I tried and I didn't, it was two. It was very big and I never, I never stuck with it. Mm-hmm <affirmative> but I went back and I bought another one, a tinier one, which I think is the one that you have the kind of like the one I think that you see the most. I bought myself, I bought myself a one line a day journal, and I have been doing it in secret. Wow. Not very long, not very long. Wow. But just trying to see if the practice sticks. So for about week and a half, two weeks, I have been doing wow. A one can't

Doree: Believe you've been keeping this for me.

Kate: Well, I wanted to make sure I was doing it. And then I thought, you know, it would be more, it's very me to buy something, use it once and, and talk about it on the podcast and then never use it again. And I don't want to do that. So I'm really trying to see if this is something I can stick with. Um, and in addition, I also bought myself a very simple gratitude journal.

Doree: Okay.

Kate: Um, and I had to do some digging to kind of find the most basic one I could find. And it's very simple. You just date it, you write, you know, you jot off a few, uh, little, you know, bits of things that you're grateful for. And I've also been doing that this for the last, you know, week and a half, two weeks. And, you know, I had been feeling it's called the one minute gratitude journal. We'll link to both of these things, as we mentioned, um, you know, the last, the last month let's say, have been especially heavy, I think with not necessarily in my personal life, but in my kind of life as a human being and an American, um, with the decision coming about Roe being overturned with, um, the, you know, the shooting of black Americans in Buffalo, the shooting of children in Uvalde, Texas, like it's just been a really heavy, heavy time as an American person. So the gratitude journal has been very interesting to sit with, you know, like, and, and there's a, it's, I'm glad I'm doing, sorry. I'm I'm going on a bit of a tangent here. Is that okay?

Doree: Yeah.

Kate: I am glad I'm doing both because I appreciate the space for gratitude, but the one, and I think it is a really valuable practice as I've talked about here. It's something that I have done on and off for a few years now, but the one thing I don't like about it is that it's not a record of everything, right? Yes. So within these really heavy sorrow filled days, it's allowing me to reflect on whatever little bits of joy I can pull from them. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, which is really great, which I appreciate so much, but also I do appreciate the one line, a day journal for giving me space to be like, you know, to really document things in my own life and things that are going on in the world. And it's not a ton of space, but I know that you've mentioned this. Like you can, you can really get a lot out there in just a few lines.

Doree: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I do, I do like the one line a day journal also just for that reason. It's like, you can usually, there's usually only space to kind of talk about like a moment of the day. I will occasionally like, try to note, like things that have been going on in the news or like how I've been feeling about them, but like, it's usually not like the place to reflect deeply on things. Yeah.

Kate: Yeah. And I, I, you know, I have a journal where I do sometimes like scribble for pages, but I'm not very consistent with it. So I, I am enjoying this. I will say the one thing that I did to really make space for these journals is that I cleaned out my bedside table and I bought organizing little, like bins that fit into my very tiny bedside table. And I have organized the crap out of my bedside table so that the, these two journals can fit inside the drawers because it's a very small bedside table. And what I do is like stack everything on top, which makes the whole it's all unusable. And like, I don't wanna take anything off cuz it's like playing Jenga with all the items on your bedside table.

Doree: Mm

Kate: Mm-hmm <affirmative> but I found some really great little organizing bins and so

Doree: Oh good.

Kate: Yes. My, my bedside table looks amazing. Oh my gosh. Like I've never, it's so nice. Like I was able to put trader Joe's, Pese in a little Oz on top of my bedside table. Yeah. I have flowers. What, every night I've been going to bed like filled with despair and then I see these Pese and they, they just bring me like a little bit of like, ah, you know, like a little bit of,

Doree: You know, case. Wait, I, I also have trader Joe's P in my house right now, but they're not on my bedside table because they would not have hit there.

Kate: Well, trader Joe's P's are like, they are so good this year. I don't. They're

Doree: So

Kate: Good. They're like magic touched with magic. Yeah.

Doree: They're beautiful. So

Kate: It, they knew we needed them to be really good right now.

Doree: Yes. If you're trader Joe's, if you live near trader Joe's and they have P get

Kate: Them. Yeah. They're like so huge right now. They're almost, I, sometimes I look at them and I'm like, are these really PS <laugh>? I don't know. Mine are wild.

Doree: Yeah. Mine really mine really kind of like exploded like right away.

Kate: Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> so that's, what's new here. Doree. I've just been trying to kind of document trying to grat, you know, just trying it's and, and I will say you were right as usual, but I get into bed. I put on my giant L E D light face mask and I do my two journals and they are so quick. Cuz the gratitude journal is very easy too. That it's just like, it's a less than five minutes.

Doree: I, I love it.

Kate: I like that too. And then I read my book about alien pirates and I go to sleep.

Doree: That sounds ideal.

Kate: I love the alien pirates are... They're so... I love them. I love these pirates

Doree: Have is this separate from the ice planet Barbarians?

Kate: It's In the same galaxy Doree. It is.

Doree: Okay.

Kate: It's the same author. Um, but these are different characters. The original aliens that I was reading, they were not pirates. They're very, very like, uh, morally and ethically black and white. Those, those aliens, these aliens are pirates, but they're also really good guys.

Doree: Got it. Okay. Okay. I,

Kate: You really, I might only read books from now on about aliens and Orks.

Doree: Wow.

Kate: Yeah. That's kind of who I might be

Doree: Now. Okay. I mean, look, you just have to become your true, authentic self.

Kate: I really believe it. And that's that is me. That is me right now. Anyway. How have you been getting through what's going on over there? What do you need? What can we talk about? What can we help you with <laugh>

Doree: Thank you, Kate. I mean, I think like, like everyone else, like you, like probably all of our listeners have just been kind of simultaneously, uh, despairing looking at the news, avoiding the news. Like it's just, you know, it's it's so it's so devastating. It's so overwhelming that I'm just sort of like, oh God. Um, well and

Kate: There's this like kind of individual slash like, um, collective need to disassociate a little bit. Yeah. And like compartmentalize and I think that's, I don't know. I think that's just like a, how people handle trauma and just been thinking about that. So totally. I feel, I feel you to, I feel you deeply,

Doree: But like on a totally superficial level, um, I would like a new hat.

Kate: Okay. So like a big straw sun hat or

Doree: Yeah, I'm thinking like straw sunhat vibes. The problem is I have a large head. Okay. So like a lot of the very cute femmy hats, which are like the kind that I gravitate towards. Yes. They come in one size and like that size does not fit my head. So that is very frustrating to me. So I guess what I'm asking is, um, where are the hats, the cute hats for people with large heads?

Kate: Do you know what your head size is? Like? Have you ever measured your head? Cuz that is a

Doree: I have, yes, no, I know I have measured my head. Um, so I do know like roughly what, what size I'm looking for. I got, um, I, I got a hat that I was, that I was excited about from a company called barrier that I saw on my friend, Carly Weisel's Instagram. I was influenced. Okay. Um, but it's like too floppy. It's not a straw hat. It's a tie dye, print, sun hat.

Kate: Oh cute. Okay.

Doree: And it's cute. But like I like, it's like hard to see <laugh> when I'm wearing it. You know what I mean? You know those kinds of hats.

Kate: Yes. Where they like Flo down into your face, actually have a visor. I have a hat that does that and I never wear it and it makes me mad.

Doree: Yeah. It's too floppy. So I need something a little less floppy.

Kate: So I have a giant straw hat that I wear. Um, I think quick silver makes, it's like kind of a very common style hat you see around here. It's just like a big ass straw hat that you can like literally probably buy at. Like Walmart I bought mine at my kid was buying like softball cleats. And I saw the hat at the, at the store because I tend to at like the sporting good store, I tend to like squash hats very quickly. Abby Arad makes a gorgeous looking hat, um, on her site, your stylist says, but I don't know what the measurement of the hat is. It's currently sold out. It's also, you know, it's a hundred dollars hat, but it is like a gorgeous straw hat that I'm obsessed with. I, I wanna buy it. You should check it out. But I don't know if it would fit

Doree: For the best hat.

Kate: Yes. Would it fit your ample hat head? This definitely know.

Doree: I'll I'll tell you right now. This will not fit me.

Kate: Okay. All right. Well we need to go hat shopping for you.

Doree: Yeah. I think we do

Kate: Now. Would you be open to like a jaunty cap or a top hat or anything like that? Or are we really just thinking like a fedora hat? Kate? <laugh> a fedora.

Doree: I think you're just saying that to troll me.

Kate: I am, I'm trolling you, but you know, you're true.

Doree: Trolling

Kate: Me a Panama hat would look awesome on you.

Doree: I used to have a Panama hat and it got squished. Um, yeah. I need to just, I need to really look for something

Kate: Madewell has something called. Yeah. I was just

Doree: Packable. Maybe Madewell I think I used to have that hat

Kate: Actually. I feel like I did too. I feel like I had this and I ruined it at some point. This is the problem with a hat. This is the problem with a hat. I will say I have also bought a really good hat. That's like an S P F gardener hat. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I bought it on Amazon and I will find a link. I don't know if it would fit your head, but it's a great, it's like the most durable hat I wear it in the pool. I wear it everywhere. I've had it for years and okay. Yeah. It's a great, it's a great hat. It maybe isn't the most stylish, but I don't know. Like, is that what you're are you looking for? Like a cool hat. It's by slogs. That's the name? Which is a crazy name for a company. Slogs.

Doree: I mean, I kind of am looking for a cool hat. Okay. Like I have, I have uncool hats. I'm like I'm set in the uncool hat category. If I just wanna cover my head and like be self protected. You can you

Kate: Do that?

Doree: I'm set. I want a cute hat.

Kate: Okay. She wants a cute hat. Okay. So look at this, this S logger's hat again, I didn't send you like the right size, but this hat is cute and functional. Oh, they make like gardening clogs. That's why their name is slogs. All right. The quest, the quest continue.

Doree: Now this, the slogs one that you just send me appears to only be one size, which is just,

Kate: Well, you know, I have one. So the next time we get together, I can bring my slogs hat and you can try it on your head. Oh,

Doree: Maybe they, Hmm. Maybe

Kate: They do. I'm looking here and I've had my slogs hat for 10 years and it's still good.

Doree: Wow. Kate?

Kate: Yeah. Really loyal customer of slogs. I can't stop saying slogs. That's what I've learned.

Doree: I mean, it's a pretty funny name.

Kate: What a ridiculous word.

Doree: What a ridiculous word. Um, okay. This is, this is very helpful. Thank you, Kate. Ooh, I did just find one on Amazon. That is kinda cute and comes in medium and large. Hmm. All right. I feel like you

Kate: Need to Ute over to G thanks just by, oh,

Doree: I just, I just clicked on one that I was like, this one's cute. And it comes in medium, large. And then it says that I purchased another variation. One time

Kate: Of this. Oh no. What?

Doree: I own this, not the S SLRs one, a different one, but I was like, this one's cute. And then it's like, you own this <laugh>

Kate: That's hilarious. So you already have the hat. Yes. But that you like don't okay, but where is it

Doree: Is the question. Oh, where is it? Yeah. Wait, this is really funny. Where is this hat? <laugh> okay. I will, I will. I will look into this. <laugh> I'll get to the

Kate: Crazy Doree. Secretly has a hat. My God. Oh my God. You have the hat, but you didn't realize you had the hat.

Doree: Oh boy. Story of my freaking life.

Kate: That's okay. It's OK.

Doree: Okay.

Kate: Kate. Wow. This was fun.

Doree: This, this really was really was fun. Um, we should introduce our guest today.

Kate: Oh, we have such an amazing guest on the show today. Traci Thomas is talking to us. She is the host and creator of the amazing podcast, the stacks, which is a wonderful book podcast that she created to talk about books and the ways they shape our cultural understanding of race, gender politics, and what it means to be alive. She's talked to everyone from Angelina Jolie to Brit Bennett, and she lives in Los Angeles with her husband who, if you listen to the podcast, you know, she refers to as Mr. Stacks and her twins, the mini stacks. So, um, we had a, we had a great conversation with her. She answered some reader questions. Um, it was a really wonderful dialogue, wonderful dialogue. That sounds so formal, but it was just like

Doree: Conversation

Kate: <laugh> yeah. She was just so fun to talk to and, and is so, oh my gosh. I, I sat down at my desk and I found the three post-it notes filled with book recommendations from Traci. She has so many, you're

Doree: Gonna, you're gonna get a lot of book res from this

Kate: Episode. Yeah. So just, I mean, we'll list them all. So don't worry about scribbling them all down.

Doree: All right. Well, here's Traci, we'll be right back. Traci. We are so excited to have you on forever 35. Welcome to the show.

Traci: Yay. Thank you guys for having me.

Doree: Yeah, of course. Um, well we do always like to start by asking our guests about a self-care practice that they have, and we know that you have some, so

Traci: <laugh> I do. Okay. We'll see. I mean,

Doree: I mean,

Traci: I guess I do, um, I take baths. I love a bath mm-hmm <affirmative>, but I don't, it's not like a practice. It's like, when I can take a bath, I take a bath, but I'm not like, okay, I need to take my bath. Like, it's not like a ritual.

Doree: mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Traci: so like some weeks I'll take like three baths and then I haven't taken a bath in like a month right now.

Doree: Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Traci: um, and I do yoga every day. That is my, one of my newest resolutions was to do some yoga every day, some days it's only five minutes, some days, you know, I get a good 45 hour in, um, and walking and I don't know. I'm like to have, to be honest with you guys. I'm really surprised you wanna have me on your show because I'm like, not serumy. I'm not face masky. I use the same like six products always since I was in high school, I never try new things. I have anxiety around beauty. So I was like, I hope I have something to say, that's gonna be useful.

Kate: <laugh> oh my God. Yes. First of all, we had so many listeners who are like, oh my God. So I think we have a wonderful crossover.

Traci: Okay. Great.

Kate: Number two. Books are such an important part of self-care sure. More than skincare. Number three, I'm dying to know your six products that you,

Doree: me too.

Kate: You do since high school.

Traci: This is so embarrasing not all since high school, some since college, but my <laugh> I, so I don't shampoo my hair. I just want people to know I have very curly hair. Uh it's. There's no shampoo, except for when I go in to get my haircut, like once or twice a year, my gal like does the shampooing, but otherwise only conditioner. And I use herbal essence, the pink conditioner for color treated hair, even though my hair is not color treated. And I use herbal. And then I use Paul Mitchell, the conditioner for styling. So instead of like putting like gel in, I put in this like leaving conditioner and then I use herbaceous spray gel for like spraying and setting. And that's it for my hair. I use jus lotion over my body. My newest product product to my world is I started using super group, um, sunscreen, the one in the pod. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I don't know. I don't, I know there's a lot. I don't know. I used the one that my friend gave me and I liked, um, and I used dove liquid soap or whatever body wash and like, that's it. And Clinique mascara. When I wear makeup, I use the same Clinique, like all these things I've been using for so long that I just like, anytime something new enters my world, I'm like, I can't do it. I can't do it.

Kate: I love, I feel like herbal essence. So herbal essence came out when I was in high school. I don't know how old you are trace. I don't wanna presume you're

Traci: I'm 35 forever. Okay. But I'm actually 35 for like a few more weeks.

Kate: <laugh> congratulations. So I'm 43. And I can remember when herbal essence came out. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and I can, and it was like the rage, but also the smell is so good. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I will still buy herbal ES like that doesn't seem crazy to me. That seems like a delicious drugstore brand.

Doree: I have some Shocking news for you.

Kate: Okay.

Doree: herbal Essence was founded in 1971. Yes,

Traci: I stop. Yes. I know what you remember. You remember the sexy ad campaign?

Kate: Yes. The orgasm ads or the, or orgasm ads. Women were orgasming using that shampoo

Traci: Flowery showers. And they were like, like, remember there was like someone like in like a bathroom, like a public bathroom or like an airplane or something. And like, and then she like came out and it was sort of the, like, I'll have what she's having moment or

Kate: Whatever. Mm-hmm yes. Yeah. First of all, I wish number one, that washing my hair would, would do some, would make me come, but two, uh, I think those are great pro like those are, sounds like tried and true Stars.

Traci: When you have curly hair, like mine or period. I just feel like when you find something that works, it's different. Like, you can't just be around with like EV like, oh, someone sent me this. I'm like, that's nice. This goes directly from trash can, like, I can't touch it. My life will be ruined. Um, but yeah, so I just use the same, like five BA, like, I don't use anything. I can't get at the grocery or the, I guess the grocery store at the drug store. I do have some makeup that I recently purchased because I started doing things in person again. And I was like, I don't wear anything on my skin ever. And sometimes, you know, with the lights, you need a little something. So I got like a, yeah. Tinted moisturizer, but I couldn't tell you the brand. It's nice. It worked <laugh>.

Kate: Can I, I ask you about your yoga practice real quick. Are you, uh, when you practice, do you follow a class or a teacher or anything online or are you just practicing Asana poses yourself and whatever, like comes to your body? So

Traci: This year I've been doing, um, my Peloton yoga classes, but I've been taking yoga since 2007 or so. So like, I can do my own class. Like I can do a little flow. I, I can take myself through a practice. I have like fake taught. I once went to a resort and the teacher didn't show up. So I fake taught a class for people. Oh. So like, I'm like pretty good at yoga. Um, but for now I just do the Peloton classes and, you know, I've got like three teachers. I like, and then I hate everyone else because I have a bad attitude and I'm really high. I'm like really picky when it comes to fitness instructors. So, um, but yeah, well, Traci,

Doree: You are a former fitness instructor.

Traci: I am a former fitness instructor

Doree: and I have taken your class. Yeah. You were a great, you were a great teacher.

Traci: Thank you.

Doree: You were spin instructor at the flywheel in Largemont mm-hmm <affirmative> in Los Angeles and yeah. R I P <laugh>. So that flywheel. Um, but yeah. So do you think being a fitness instructor made you a more discerning fitness participant??

Traci: Certainly Yeah, I think so. But also I am one of those people who like despises everything sort of, because I enjoy, I enjoy disliking things. Like I enjoy picking things apart.

Doree: mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Traci: And so I always like before I ever taught, I knew I just, I don't know. I think cuz I, maybe I was a, when I was a performer, you learn how to like talk about and think about performance. And so I have always picked apart my fitness instructors.

Kate: Does that translate to your life as a reader

Traci: Being picky?

Kate: You're yeah. Oh

Traci: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I like love to hate a book. I, to me, if something doesn't evoke like criticism or conversation or whatever, it's not worthy. Like I would much rather read a book I hate and talk about it and like dissect it than to read something that's sort of like mediocre and just be like, yeah, it was fine. Like,

Kate: Yes, I had the same, same feeling as an author where I was like, well, some people have really hated my work, but it's better that they have a strong reaction to it than be blase and just forget it. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I mean, at least I try to tell myself that maybe to make myself feel better. But I do think as a reader, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's way more interesting to hate a book than to be bored by a book.

Traci: Yeah. And I feel like we we're really comfortable as like a society and a culture like criticizing television or films, even ones that we like, but being like, this was really great, but that performance was really bad or this was really bad, but how great was Meryl Streep in this? You know? And I feel like in books it's like, you have to like it or not like it. And I'm like, look, the sentences were horrible, but the plot was so great. Or like the book was really weird and bad, but there were three scenes that were just knock you, like take your breath away. And I feel like I like to talk about art in that way. Like same with the theater. That's where my background is. And like, you know, if I see a musical and there's like one insanely good number or 10 insanely, good numbers and one really bad one, I'm gonna wanna talk about the bad one too. Like I'm, I'm not the, just like, I'm not the, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all person, because I think like criticism is really valuable and I like it and it's, it brings me joy to be a critic. <laugh>

Doree: Okay. I have a question about this. Is there a point at which you will give up on a book? Like, do you, do you say, I need to give a book 50 pages or, or is it just sort of like, it

Traci: Depends on why I'm reading it. So like if I'm reading it for the show for work, I've always finished there. I will not say which one, but there's been one book, two books in the history of the show that I did not finish and I still did the interview. Um, one was because I really did not like the book and the other one was because I just ran out of time. It was like a last minute interview and it was a long book, but I won't say which ones, hopefully no one can tell. Um, so usually if it's for work, I finish it. Um, yeah, but if I don't like something, I stop. Yeah. For sure. It just depends. I, I, I can usually tell if I'm gonna like it. And sometimes if I'm not sure, I might like ask my followers, like, cuz people now sort of know my taste. So there's, I have some friends in the book world that I'm like, am I gonna like this? I'll text them or I'll be like, I'm reading this. Is this getting better? Or is this it like, I'm this far in what's the vibe. Um, but put it down. Do you know how many television shows? I don't finish? Totally.

Doree: I feel like people have so much angst about not finishing books. People

Traci: Are so weird about books. I'm like, relax, it's a book. <laugh> like, could you imagine if your friend was like, no, I have to finish Ozark because I'm four episodes in. I'm like, but do you know? There's like 40 more and you don't even like it. Like you're not gonna. And like you would be like, yeah, don't finish. It it's the same. But for a book it's like, no, I still have to read 500 pages. And it, I fall asleep. Every time I read it, I'm like, okay, it's not a book for you. Like let it go. Yeah.

Doree: And like, as an author, I would never want someone reading one of my books to feel obligated, to finish it. Like it doesn't have to be for everyone if you don't like it, stop reading it. Yeah. You

Traci: Know? Yeah. There's so many books in the world it's like, yes, you just don't like it. And that's okay. And you know, sometimes I have to push through for, for work related reasons. And like, I, I hate when I have to do that. Like, I'm just like, I know I don't like this book and I still have to think about it and like talk about it. But if it's just a pleasure read for me, it's done. And also you can pick up a book again. If you decide you like, it's like calling to you, just pick it up. Like no one is like, take like, okay, Sarah, put the book down on this date. Like gods are gonna smite her, you know, like who cares? You're fine, Sarah. You're fine.

Kate: Can, can you give our listeners background of the stacks podcast and just kind of, uh, share your inspiration for starting it? How, how you kind of became yeah. Both a book person and a podcast person.

Traci: Ooh. How I became a book person. I'm not sure. I grew up reading. My family reads. I'm a reader. I like reading. Um, but how the stacks came to be was I, so I lived in New York for a while. I loved reading. I would read a lot on the subway. Um, then I moved to LA in 2012 and I sort of stopped reading. And in 2016 I was like, I misreading, like, I'm gonna set a goal for myself. I'm gonna read one book a month for the year. And I like on December 29th, I finished my 12th book and I was like, wow, I'm a phenomenal person. Have you ever met someone who's as talented and incredible as me? So I was like in 2017, I'm gonna read 13 books. And then about like May, 2013, 2017, I just like something clicked. And I ended up finishing the year at 24 books, but I read like up until may I read one book a month.

Traci: So like the back half I was reading a lot more. And then, um, towards the end of 2017, I read this book called blood in the water, which is about the Attica prison uprising, one of my favorite books. And when I finished it, I was like, I really wanna talk about this book. And I reached out to my mom and she like, didn't like her memory of the events was like not fulfilling to what I had just read. And I asked another like family friend who's older. And like, he also didn't really remember it. So I like went to try to find a podcast on it and I can only find two episodes. One was like a lawyer podcast. So they were talking about all the legal like legalese or whatever they call it. And I was like, not exactly what I'm looking for. And then the other one was like, I don't can't remember what it was.

Traci: I can't find the episode anymore, but it was like the new Yorker or something. And they were talking about it, like in the most highfalutin, like just like totally unaccept like unaccessible, but also like they weren't talking about the racial politics. They weren't talking about the political ramifications. They were like talking about the text a little bit too much and sort of like ignoring what the book was saying. And I was like, I wish there was a show talking about the kind of books that I wanna talk about in the way that I wanna talk about them. And so then in 2018, I was like, maybe I should just like try to make a book show and like, I don't know, see how it goes. And so I asked like all my, like the first three episodes are, or the first three guests are like an English teacher friend.

Traci: My now sister-in-law who was a PhD candidate at the time. And then a screenwriter friend. Cause I was like, these people will know how to talk about writing. Cause I don't know that I know how to do this yet. So I was like, let me get like the most booky people I can think of to come and help me. Um, and that's really like how this show started. Um, was just me wanting to talk about books in the way that I wanted to talk about it, which was like, not just talking about the text, but talking about like the implications and what it means for our world and you know, what is exciting and what is not exciting and what is good and what is not good. Um, and like what does this mean? And you know, just like asking questions, like you would ask if you were in a book club that actually talked about the book and not just drank wine.

Doree: Wow.

Kate: An actual, an actual book club. Imagine that. And what is your personal relationship to reading? Like, like, uh, like when do you, your mom, you have twins.

Traci: Mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Kate: you work? You have a job, like when do you find time? Do you ever get into reading slumps?

Traci: Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Kate: like, what are your habits as a

Traci: Reader? Um, yeah, so this is my job now I don't have another job anymore. Um, just cuz a lot of people like how do you read so much? I'm like, well, if you spent 40 hours a week around books, like you would read more too probably. Um, but I get in reading slumps for sure. Uh, they're awful. Uh, in case you can't tell I'm a very goal oriented person. As I mentioned, I do yoga every day. That's like my goal for the year. Um, and last year I started a goal which was read 10 pages a day. So no matter what I read 10 pages a day last year, I missed it once this year. I've missed it once so far. Um, but otherwise it's a minimum of 10 pages. Some days I read 200 pages, some days I read nine and a half pages and call it 10 <laugh>.

Traci: Um, but that's just to like keep the muscle going for me because if I stop, I always worry that like, I'll just have to cancel the show the next day, you know, <laugh>, I'm like I gotta keep reading, keep reading. Um, I do listen to audio books a lot that helps me, um, to read like when I'm doing chores or out on a walk with my kids. Um, it helps me to also just like I, when I'm reading for the show, I like to read with my eyes because I remember better that way. But listening to audio books, like it allows me to take in more books than I would if I was only able to read with my eyes. So it's sort of like, I use that for maybe like a celebrity memoir, like something that I'm not doing on the show, but I'm just curious about, um, I also, you know, I turn out to be too hard on myself, around reading.

Traci: Like I think as we talked about before, I just think people are really critical of themselves around reading. I think cuz like reading is supposed to be in this intellectual activity or something stupid that like white men decided was how we're gonna talk about this thing. Because at a certain point in time they were the only ones who could do it. Um, but I just like, I don't know. Sometimes I have a really hard time reading and I do it and sometimes I'm like in a groove and it feels great. And like, that's just, you know what it is just like exercise. Like sometimes you're just feeling really fit and strong and you're like, yeah, I'm gonna crush this 10 mile run. And some days you're like, I'm gonna walk two blocks and I'm gonna go lay down on my couch. And like that's the same for me for reading.

Kate: What do you track your goals in? Are you a bullet journal person? Do you have an app? An app? What are you

Traci: Okay, this is, I got this app this year. Um, I don't know what it's called last year. I had a different app. I didn't like it as much. This app is called snap habit and it's sort of like a, a BJO you like put in your goals and then it I'll show you guys what it looks like. Other people you'll just have to Google it. But um, I haven't actually been tracking that though, like recently, but so you put in like your goals here and then you, like, you can click when you achieve the goals. Like you can see,

Kate: Oh I love this.

Traci: You Can kind see. So it has like boxes anyway. So yeah, I have drink 64 ounces of water. I also like to sorry, I like to make my goals low so that I feel like achieving this. Yes. So like my goal is 64 ounces of water a day, every day, most days I'm in the 80 a hundred, 120 range, but 64, something like on travel days sometimes I just don't get it in and I like to get it in. And so, you know, I have walk 5,000 steps a day and usually I walk closer to 10, but I did it lower because I finally have some childcare. And so like a day like today I'm probably not gonna walk at all. Um, so that's sort of how I set, track my goals and set my goals.

Kate: Well, we have a lot of listener questions for you. I feel like we, I could, I could just pick your brain for the rest of the hour, but we should, we should honor our listeners requests.

Traci: Okay. I hope these are good people. Cause I'll critique your questions. No I'm just kidding. <laugh>

Kate: Oh my gosh. Here's the first here's the first, uh, someone is looking for a recommendation romance novels with substance or underlying message of social justice.

Traci: Oh my God. I'm not a romancey person. Um, let me just say this before I give a recommendation. So for people who don't know me, my genre of choice is like, non-fiction about some sort of huge cover up scandal scam. So like I was big on Elizabeth Holmes long before the dropout or whatever. Like I haven't even seen the dropout cause I was like, I already know this vicious story inside out. Um, <laugh> Jonestown is a favorite topic of mine. I love a romcom to watch with my eyes, but for whatever reason reading it, it just doesn't work for me cuz I'm ahead of it cuz I know it's gonna happen. And it doesn't, it's not like I know for a lot of people it's like a fun escape, but for me I'm just like, okay, they're gonna get together. Like let's get there cuz I'm a slow reader. So it's like eight hours to get there. But if I'm watching the movie, it's like, okay, Kate Hudson, Matthew McConaughy they're kissing. We're good.

Kate: Iconic, iconic, two iconic romance, exactly

Traci: Like the yellow dress and how to lose a guy in 10 days. If I had to read that it would take me four days to get there and I'd be like, you know what? I'm ahead of you, you know, frost yourself or whatever. So all that being said, my most recent favorite romance novel, which I think has SU substance and some underlying social justice issues, maybe I don't know, it's got that's about black people. So I don't know if that's what you're trying to say, but um, it's seven days in June by Tia Williams. Oh yes. So good. So good. We had her on the show. We love isn't she great. Yeah. I mean the book is so her book is so good. Okay. Well if you had her on people probably know, but it's about a single mom. She suffers from migraines, which I thought was really great.

Traci: Like a little just like, you know, Tana's a really good job of like talking about a bunch of different things without being like, I'm gonna talk about disability. Like I'm gonna talk about totally single mothers. She's just like this character has these things going on and like let's continue the sex scenes. Aren't too sexy, which I could do a little more sexy. I don't like a full fledged, everything personally again, I'd just rather watch it love Grey's anatomy. I like that's, that's like the kind of thing I like to watch anyways. Um, and it, and, and the lead character, I can remember her name. She's the black author and she has, I know the boys, the guy's name is Shane. Um, and he was an author also and they used to know each other and then they reconnect and it's just really good. And I don't know, I loved it. So that's my romance recommendation, but I don't that's okay. I not like really romancey

Kate: Sounds you and Doree sound like you have very similar reading interests.

Traci: Okay. I know Kate, you write romance novels.

Kate: I do. I write and I read so much romance that it's like coming out of my ears. <laugh> um, but I should probably like take some recommendations from you both because I need to like, it's, it's hard. It's hard to get out of the genre that you read. And sometimes they're like, that's fine. I should just read what

Traci: I wanna read. Yeah, no, you should read what you wanna read.

Kate: Well, on that topic, do you have any recommendations for gripping novels to read? Listen to this person says while nursing

Traci: To listen to novels. Okay. I'm a more of a nonfiction audio book person. I feel like I'm doing really bad on these questions. No. Okay. Might be God, I don't. Do you think that the while nursing part means like something like that, it should be like lighter or something? Like, do you think that's why they suited it?

Kate: I, I think it's so interesting because they said a gripping yeah. Novel, but I, I guess they just, I mean, as a person who did nurse, I would just watch TV on my phone. I didn't read while nursing.

Traci: Oh, I read while I nursed, I read, I read off my, this is really a good, this is good. So I had twins, so I double nurse, like at the same time football hold. Right. And I got a Kindle and I would put my Kindle on my knee and I would use my nose to turn the pages. <laugh> that's that yoga for you really, really flexible on the spine. Like a lot, like a little, two,

Kate: Two babes on the boob this way, nose

Traci: On the knee. Turning the pages. Yeah. Same with while I was pumping. Yeah. Really just like, you know, because I couldn't just chill out. I had to be doing 19 things at once. Um, okay. I don't know if this is a gripping novel for nursing specifically, like nursing time, but I listened to station 11 on audio. That's gripping it's gripping. I just dunno if it's like take your mental health into consideration people, especially during this time of this pandemic. Cuz I read this in 2018 on audio. And so it was like, this was not, I was thinking like this was far fetched. Um, but I loved that book. It's about a pandemic. Um, there's the TV show on HBO. It's very different from the book. So even if you've seen the show, you could still read the book. It doesn't matter. Um, and a show I didn't finish.

Traci: Um, just F just for transparency. Another thing I didn't finish. Yeah. Um, but I loved the narrator. She's very audio booky, but I just really liked her. Her name was also Kirsten, just like the main character, which I thought was interesting. Um, so that's a novel, if you want, just like a really good audio book, Trevor Noah's audio book is so good. I know it's a memoir it's but it's a gripping story. It's so good. He's so entertaining. And he'll have you like laughing and feeling emotions. Um, and then this is also not a novel, but it's a really great audio book. And I like track recommend it to people who are in transition points in their life. And I think if you're nursing, that probably means you're in a transition point of motherhood, even if it's or parenthood, even if it's not your first child, but you know, whatever.

Traci: Um, it's tiny, beautiful things by Cheryl stray. It's a phenomenal audio book. Cheryl stray reads it. Um, I've listened to the book twice. I've read the book off the page once I love it so much. It makes me feel things. And because they're there, it's like an advice column, but it's not like advice. It's like loose advice. Um, but because it's structured that way, you could listen to like one and not have to go back to it for a while. So as new parenthood goes, things come up, you get distracted, you can't really focus. So it's kind of an easy thing to segment. So those would be my recommendations. The only one is what you asked for.

Kate: Okay. Well let's take a quick and we'll be right back.

Traci: All right. We are

Doree: Back. Let's talk about non-fiction because as Kate said, I also love equipping non-fiction book. I also read bad blood yes. Way before the draw before. So right there with you. Um, what have been a couple of your gripping nonfiction Rex lately that you want to kind of shout out?

Traci: Okay. Um, I loved empire of pain by Patrick Raden Keith. Yes, me too. That was so good. Okay. Oh gosh. I should gotta come up. Some things you guys haven't read. Um, have you guys read south to America by Imani Perry?

Doree: No.

Kate: No, but I that's on my TBR.

Traci: It's phenomenal. You had her, you had her on, right? Yeah. Yeah. Love Imani Perry. So we did an Imani Perry book for book club, uh, in 2020. And then she came on this past March I believe. Um, and she's phenomenal. She's one of the authors that I say that I know, I know that in the future I'm gonna be like, I can't believe I was alive and living in the world that Imani Perry was writing about and like writing into, you know, like she's to me that culturally important and will be in the future. Um, south to America is her examination of the south of America and sort of how it is the start and the, the lead on things in America. And she goes through different states and regions in the south and talks about them and it's sort of memoir and it's essay and it's just like so complicated and beautiful.

Traci: And the writing is so phenomenal and that I listened to some of it on audio and the audio is really good. Imani reads it. And she like does some of the little Southern draw things, which is really fun. Um, so that's a book I've loved recently. What other nonfiction? Oh, I just finished reading, um, David, Dennis Jr's book called the movement, made us, it just came out like two weeks ago. Um, and his father is David Dennis senior, who was on the first bus of the freedom rides. Um, he was an organizer for core and COFO in the civil rights movement. And he's sort of like the forest Gump of the civil rights movement where it's like, he had dinner with Medgar Evers the day before he was assassinated. He was supposed to be in the car with Goodman Chaney. And Schwar, he, you know, knew he knew everybody.

Traci: He was in an organizing meeting with Martin Luther. He Jr. And so it's this incredible story that if anybody wrote it as fiction, I would be like, okay, this guy was at all those places, like gimme a break. Yeah. But it's like an oral history sort of, but David junior has like, instead of it just being straight oral history, he's kind of like crafted it into narrative nonfiction, his father's story. So that's a really cool book. Okay. Um, that I've loved recently. That's three. What else? Oh, shine bright by, um, Danielle Smith, which is about it's our book club picks. Yes. For may, uh, or was our book club. I loved

Doree: Your interview with her by the

Traci: Way. She's so fucking cool. She's amazing. She's amazing. And it's about black women in pop music and she tells her story and also the story of women like Whitney Houston, Janet Jackson, Maria, I care Aretha Franklin, Gladys Knight, uh, Marilyn OU Denise Williams, like so many people, sissy Houston, Dion, Warwick. And it's just so incredible. Her memory is insane. Like her ability to tell these stories and bring light to these figures that we sort of know, but like don't realize we don't know mm-hmm <affirmative> so that's a really great book. Um, and that's sort of on the lighter side though, it of course is heavy cuz it has to do with racism and the erasure of black women from an industry that they are central to and are the beating heart of. So, you know, depends on how emotional you are when you read it could make you pretty mad.

Doree: I would really like to read that book. It's I think I'm gonna put that on my list.

Kate: I like this question, cuz I'm curious. Uh, people had had two questions, favorite reading app. Okay. They said they like Libby, but the holds are too long. Okay. And we're both Libby users. So, and then the other person asked for options other than good reads to keep tabs on their reads. So I'd love to kind of just into the digital side of reading.

Traci: Okay. So Libby's what I use. Um, I also use script, which like they do a monthly unlimited situation. I

Kate: Don't use script

Traci: It's you have to pay it's 1199 a month, but it's unlimited and they do books, audiobooks podcasts. Oh. Um, some articles. I believe I use it strictly for audiobook at this point. Um, but that's another option if you're willing to pay and don't wanna wait as long their selection isn't as like they don't have a lot of titles in certain spaces. Like sometimes they might have the audio, but they don't have the E or whatever. So sort of outta play around, but that's a good option. Um, I do not, I also use Libro FM, but you have to buy those books, but they support your independent bookstore. So, you know, if, if, if the reason you're using Libby is because you don't wanna spend money, then Libra, F M is not a great option for you. But if you were just looking for another place to get audiobook, LiRo F M is a great option because a percentage of every sale goes directly to the independent bookstore of your choosing.

Traci: So you can support your local indie or maybe you visited in India on a trip and you're like, I love those people. And so you can support them in that way. Um, and then for tracking my favorite topic. Um, so I use good reads personally for a few reasons, but another alternative to good reads, which is not owned by Amazon is a company called story graph, which is very similar. Um, I I'll tell you why I haven't started using photograph yet, which has nothing to do with the company, but mostly because at this point in time, good reads is a place that a lot of bookstores and publishers use to gauge future book, sales and orders and things like that. And so I would like to weigh in on the books in a space that might be meaningful for the authors. Um, story graph has better functionality.

Traci: I just don't wanna track my books in three different places. And you're wondering what that other place is. Well, I myself have built a reading tracker with some members of my Patreon. Um, it's one of the perks of my Patreon and it is the joy of my life. Uh <laugh>. It is the most intense tracker ever fully customizable. I have every book that I've read since 2016, um, and its title, author, page number, audio, book length. If I listened the country of origin for the author, the state of origin for the author, if what reason I read it for where I got the book, if I got it from an indie bookstore, which indie bookstore and it tracks all of this, and then there's a whole page of like data. And then I have my entire TBR there as well. Every book that comes into my house gets entered into it.

Traci: Wow, it's a lot, but I built it. And then two of my incredible patrons Satchi and Becky helped me this year, make it even better. And it's like sortable <laugh> and it's really crazy. And once a year I share it with my patrons. And so this is like the greatest thing that ever happened to me and I'm obsessed with it. So every book I finish, I put in there and then I also quickly go on good reads, give it a star rating and write my notes so that when I'm gonna review later. So that's how I track.

Kate: I, I appreciate the point you make as a writer. I appreciate the point you make about good reads because that is getting your book read by people in good reads is a whole is a whole thing. Yeah. And it's, and promoting a book is a whole thing that I think yeah, isn't, you know, yeah. Quite discussed as you know, I don't, I dunno what I'm trying to say anyway. Thank you for doing that. I really appre I really appreciate you offering that point of view because it really does help. It does help the

Traci: Authors. Yeah. It makes a difference and that's not, I mean, part of me is like I should get on photograph also because that would be great if that was the resource that people used, but just being completely honest, like I tracking books in three different places is too much for me. Um, oh, that's a lot. So I just don't. But if you're looking for an alternative and you don't have an insane reading tracker, like that is your life's passion, <laugh> then going to story graph is great. And, and even still, you know, you could still have your good reads and leave a star rating when you finish a book or whatever, or, you know, you could kind of do both things. But for me, the two that I've chosen are good reads and my personal.

Doree: OK.

Kate: I love this. This is very helpful. <laugh>

Doree: If you are reading novels mm-hmm <affirmative> what, what kind of novels are you reading? I mean, you mentioned station 11. Yeah. But, um, is there anything else? Is it literary fiction? Is it mm-hmm <affirmative> mysteries? Like what, what are you reading in the fiction world?

Traci: I'm reading literary slash contemporary fiction. I don't know the difference. Sorry. Um, fiction <laugh> I dunno, general, um, I'll read, as I mentioned, like a romance here and there I'll read like a thriller here and there. I like plot. I don't like books that are where nothing happens. Like where it's just like characters, just like being alive. I, I don't like that in movies. I don't like that in TV. I don't like that period. I like things to happen. Um, I generally lean skew a little bit heavier in the topic. Um, I'm not so much a coming of age story person though. I read a lot of them and that's all like my personal taste. If you look at what I read for the show, it really skews. And like, oftentimes I read things that I wouldn't normally read if left completely to my own devices.

Traci: Um, and so you know, I've definitely read things that, aren't what I like, like seven days in June that I wouldn't normally read. Right. But like, I'll pick it up because I read a lot. And so I feel like I have the time to be like, let me just throw in something random and just see if it hits. Um, so I try to read widely. I don't read horror. I am very easily scared. So horror is a hard, no, it's the only genre that I'm just like, it's not happening. Cuz I have nightmares and I have really bad anxiety and my husband works 24 hour shifts. So I'm home alone. Um, mm-hmm <affirmative> pretty often. And so it, it just, sorry, horror authors I've respect you, whatever you do, but like it's too scary. Can you do less? <laugh>

Doree: Yeah, I'm right there with you on that.

Kate: Do you have any suggestions for what people should be reading this summer? I know like summer reads mm-hmm <affirmative> or is always the hot thing, but I do think people are more inclined to pick up a book in

Traci: The summer mm-hmm mm-hmm <affirmative> summer reads. Okay. So let me just say this. First of all, any book you read in the summer is a summer read. Any book you read on the beach is a beach read. I don't do the like, oh, it's like gotta be they're traveling through Italy. Like it's a no for me, it's already hard enough to read. So just read what you wanna read. That's like my big mission statement, a book coming out next Tuesday, June 7th is called night crawling by Layla Motley. She is uh, an Oakland gal like me. The book is about another gal from Oakland named Kiara 17 year old girl who gets into sex work and becomes embroiled in the Oakland police department sex scandal. So it's based on that story from 2015, 17 or so. Um, Layla is, was 17 when she started writing the book, she'll be 20 in June.

Traci: Um, she's incredible. The book is really great. It's very gripping. There's a lot of plot, obviously, from what I've told you, you can probably imagine there's some heavy topics there. So like, you know, I'm warning you it's about sex work. Just heads up people. So that's a book. I, and that's a novel, that's a book I would shout out as a summer book coming out soon. That's exciting. Um, I'm just started listening to Justin Tinsleys book about the notorious B I G called. It was all a dream. I'm not a huge biggie fan. I'm a Tupac person. I just never really got into biggie <laugh> but I'm like 15% into the book and I am so into it. He's giving all this like historical context around like Christopher Wallace's childhood and upbringing and like making him make sense in the space, which I think people don't often do for black artists, especially rappers.

Traci: It's just like, oh, he was a rapper and he did dealt Coke and it's like, yeah, he was born in 1972. Like that's a really important cultural moment. post-Civil rights prewar on drugs, like in Brooklyn, son of an immigrant. Like it's just really exciting to like get this context. Um, so that's a book I'm really excited about. There's a book coming out, I believe in August called the man who could move clouds and it's by Ingrid or Rojas interest. And it's, uh, there Colombian and it's a memoir sort of about their family and um, her mother and her father. And like, I don't really know. I just know that her novel was fruit of the drunken tree. And I'm really excited about this memoir. That's often like sort of how I pick books is I'm like I'm curious and interested and we'll see. So that's another book that I'm sort of excited about to like get to read.

Traci: Um, there's a book that my friend crystal just finished and said was incredible also about a sex worker and a violent crime. And this is a non-fiction and this person ended up in jail for murdering her pimp. Um, and it's called I, I cry my God. I should have really made a full list. Um, I think it's called, I cried to dream again. Yeah. I cried to dream again. Um, and that just came out in may. So that's a book I'm really excited about sort of a nonfiction pairing tonight crawling. Um, I wish I had something lighter. I feel like I've really gone really dark I'm skewing dark today. <laugh> and every day let's be honest.

Doree: It's okay.

Kate: It's great. We honestly, well, we don't, I think as readers, I definitely don't read too dark of a book, so it's good to have you have you share deeper books cuz I'm sitting here reading like endless romance series, right?

Traci: Oh, I have one more book that I'm really excited about. Sorry. Yes, I have to say this one. So the first book club book we ever did on the show was exit west by Mo Hamid Hamed. Right. And um, he's got a new book out, I think in August called the last white man. And I know very little about it, but it has to do with like a world where everybody's white or maybe everybody's brown. I can't remember, but I'm hearing good things. I'm very excited to read it. And so that's another book I'm very excited about.

Kate: These are great recommendations. Thank you. I've written them all down on my little post-it notepad.

Doree: Um, well Traci, where can our listeners find you if they want to listen to the show, follow your Instagram, cetera, et cetera.

Traci: So you can get the stack wherever you got your podcast. As people say iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher pod link is a great resource. Um, every Wednesday new episodes of the show, uh, the stacks Instagram is at the stacks pod. I review every single book I read though. Sometimes it takes a while for me to get the reviews posted cuz I get bored. Um, and I hate writing, but that's a whole other story. Um, but it's there with a lot of other booking content and you know, I'm reachable there. If you are looking for a recommendation or something though, I, you may not get a response right away. Sorry. I'm trying to work on worklife balance. Uh <laugh> and, and then, you know, the website is a sax podcast.com. If you like the show, it's a completely independent podcast. You can join the Patreon at, uh, patreon.com/the stack and get bonus episodes and the tracker at the end of the year, which on, and you can go back and you can retroactively import all your books. You can even export from good reads and do that. Ooh, I got you anyways. So those are all the places I think you can find me.

Doree: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Traci: Of course. Thank you for having

Doree: Me chatting with you. It was so fun. So we are also gonna be on the stacks. We're gonna be on Traci's show, um, probably in the next few weeks, but we will be sure to let everyone know so you can check us out there.

Traci: Yay.

Doree: Yay. Thank

Kate: You, Traci.

Traci: Thank you.

Kate: I am going to need to put a major order in at the old local bookstore.

Doree: Oh yeah, I know me too well,

Kate: Especially because a lot of, I might actually do some, um, audio books here because a lot of Traci's recommendations are nonfiction and I love a nonfiction audio book,

Doree: You know, Kate, I don't think I knew that about you.

Kate: Oh really?

Doree: Yeah. That you preferred a nonfiction audio book. I don't think I knew that

Kate: I I'll re I'll like listen to a fiction book and I will read nonfiction, but I actually prefer listening to nonfiction. Yeah. There's absolutely. There's like a storytelling element to nonfiction that I just feel like lends itself well to audio.

Doree: Yeah, I hear that. Well, we've also like, I feel like in the last few years we've gotten used to listening to non-fiction podcasts.

Kate: I think that's it. So there's a lot of crossover there. Yeah,

Doree: Right? Yeah. Totally

Kate: Totes totes ma goats as my children would say totes,

Doree: Well, Kate, how did your bedtime go?

Kate: You know what? It's going pretty well. I'm not gonna lie. I am kind of nailing this earlier. Bedtime thing. I think it's, it's in part like the routines that I'm starting to establish at night and also just going directly to bed after I put my kids to bed instead of like going out to work or like, I don't know, trying to clean the house, I'm really making myself ignore all the things I would normally pay attention to and go right to bed. And it is really feels so much better for my body. So, um, it is still, what time,

Doree: What time do your kids go to bed?

Kate: We, um, my nine year old, we try to do eight to eight 30 and my 11 year old, like nine, which I, which, and like sometimes will push it, which I think is early. Like they have some friends who are in bed later, but like, they are so tired. Like they totally have to wake them up for school and they're still getting like, you know, 10 hours of sleep. So they, they, um, protest their bedtimes and we'll extend, you know, we'll make them later in the summer. But yeah, I try to, I try to have like everybody lights out 9:00 PM.

Doree: So then at nine you're just like, all right. My like my wind down is starting.

Kate: I I'm Tru trying. And sometimes I have to really make sure that I'm not looking at TikTok for three hours because I will do that. So I, I try to begin my, like I wash my face, I do my light mask. I do my new journals. Um, and then I try to get into bed and read,

Doree: I love this,

Kate: You know, also like talk to my husband, et cetera, et cetera, you know? Sure, sure. Yeah. But I'm not staying up and watching TV because otherwise that would like RI me up. Okay. Unless it's girls five, which I can watch before bed because that's a lighthearted show.

Doree: Oh, interesting.

Kate: Alright. Oh, I love girls five. Yeah. Second season out now,

Doree: Onward with me. What about, what about this week? What do you have going on?

Kate: Okay. So this week I am going to take a moment to figure out how to slow my ass down and enjoy the summer because I don't know if this happens to anybody else, but summer arrives and it feels like a whirlwind, a whirlwind. That's not a, a whirlwind.

Doree: <laugh> whirlwind

Kate: A whirlwind. It feels like a wind gusting across the world. I just, I, every year I want to enjoy summer and savor summer. And every year it just feels like a frantic rush. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, I think because of travel and yeah, people being home and my work for whatever reason always seems to get busy in the summer with the books I'm working on. So how can I slow down? That's what I'm thinking about. OK. It's a bit of a, it's a bit of a, like a, a headier intention this week. Yeah. Like it's on the mind. It's on the

Doree: Mind. I like that. Thank you. Um, well Kate, last week my intention was to move my body every day. I, you know, I didn't do this every day. I don't think there were a couple days in there where like, I don't know. I just didn't. So I'm still like trying to do that, but my intention this week is kind of like an, like a classic. I need to clean off my desk.

Kate: Oh, Doree.

Doree: Yeah.

Kate: What's going on with the desk. What's on it.

Doree: I mean, what isn't on it. <laugh> literally like what is not on them.

Kate: <laugh>

Doree: When we record

Kate: This podcast, I can't see, I don't see your desk. So I, I just see your head and a microphone. So I always imagine that your desk is clean, but you're telling me that your entire house is located on your desk is what I'm hearing you say.

Doree: Yeah.

Kate: Uhhuh. OK.

Doree: Pretty much so. Yeah. So I need to take care of that. There's also like, you know, bills and like all this stuff that I put on my desk to like deal with. And then I just like, forget. So I need to just deal with everything.

Kate: Yep. Yep.

Doree: So that's where I'm at this week.

Kate: Well, on where we go,

Doree: Indeed.

Kate: Well, Doree let's remind everybody that forever 35 is hosted and produced by Doree Shafrir and Kate Spencer it's produced and edited by Sam Junio and Sami Reed is our project manager. Our network partner is Acast. Thank you all so much for listening.

Doree: Bye.