Mini-Ep 466: Time For A Second Act
Listeners send in their request for bath towel recs (they’re different from dish towels!), the importance of working on your executive function skills, and advice on changing careers without the side hustle.
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Transcript
This episode transcript is AI generated.
Doree Shafrir (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise Hu (00:16):
And I'm Elise Hu, and we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums
Doree Shafrir (00:20):
And we have an amazing guest today.
Elise Hu (00:24):
Doree really connected with today's guest.
Doree Shafrir (00:27):
I really did. I really felt everything that she was talking about. Her name is Cadence Dubus. She's technically a personal trainer, but I feel like that doesn't totally encompass her whole thing. She also has a podcast. She's a newsletter. She is a very interesting thinker about bodies and exercise.
Elise Hu (00:53):
Yeah, I feel like she described herself as a movement coach or something like that. Not specifically a personal trainer.
Doree Shafrir (01:02):
Yes, totally. We'll be talking to her a little later in the episode, but she's a really great guest.
Elise Hu (01:09):
Yes. Before we get to that, I teased on last week's Friday casual chat that I'm very excited about a new shampoo that I am using courtesy of our Korean hairstylist, Jesse, who cuts the hair and styles the hair of all five family members, including Rob.
Doree Shafrir (01:29):
Oh, wow. Wow. Okay.
Elise Hu (01:32):
Yeah, she cuts Rob because Rob's hair is great and full, but it grows outward when it gets too long. Oh, interesting. His hair does what I call a Steve Bruel. If you know John c Re's character, Steve Brule like the mad scientist kind of guy. Anyway, so every once in a while when it gets a little bit too long, and when I say every once in a while, I mean approximately three to three and a half weeks, I'm like, it's time. It's time to go to Jesse. Jesse was fielding a complaint from Ava, my daughter with the thickest hair. She has crazy thick hair. We realized this when she was three or four years old. She was born with a thick head of hair. It's only become more abundant and
(02:18)
It gets to be difficult to tame. And then there's so much of it that her scalp actually gets kind of greasy underneath the layers of hair, and then her hair doesn't feel light. It kind of feels like there's shampoo or product residue in it, even though there's not. So she would wash her hair and it would still feel like there was residue in it. So Jesse was like, you need to use this Korean shampoo that is available on Amazon and other like K Beauty outposts online, and it's called Hao, H-A-S-U-O, herbal Essential Shampoo, and Jesse uses it for herself. It's a little bit drying, so you're not supposed to use it every day. She says to use it every other day at most, but especially in areas where you feel like your scalp is kind of oily. So Ava started using it and it's been transformative for her. So now her hair is lighter and bouncier and shinier, and it's not clumping in the areas that it was greasy, but I decided to try it for myself on my much thinner, much finer hair, and I have also seen amazing results. I
Doree Shafrir (03:31):
Felt like I was not expecting that.
Elise Hu (03:33):
Yeah, I know. I was really surprised too, but my hair feels like not only cleaner, but lighter and thicker too at the same time. And I also don't use it every day and usually shampoos don't affect me that much. I'm not somebody who experiments with a lot of shampoo. I was using the whey products before just because WHE was sort of like the in product, but then I also like the Aussie stuff from the drugstore. I just have never been a big shampoo experimenter, but after Ava actually had this visible problem with her scalp feeling oily and then her hair never feeling clean, we started using this has stuff and we both love it. It's been, I haven't even mentioned this yet because it's only been four or six weeks, somewhere between the last four to six weeks that we've been experimenting with it. So I wanted to give it a little bit more time, but now I can confidently say very pleased with it. This is not a sponsored
Doree Shafrir (04:28):
Post. Wow. Okay. I was just going to say I still use our on again off again sponsor pros.
Elise Hu (04:37):
Yeah. Yeah. And you've really liked that. I liked my personalized, they customize potions, right? Shampoo, conditioner, all sorts of other things for your hair, and it just wasn't much, so it didn't last me very long.
Doree Shafrir (04:52):
Yeah, I hear that. Well, for the first time, I feel like I'm using the appropriate amount of conditioner and it's the first real conditioner that I feel like hasn't made my hair greasy and heavy. It's just nourished it. Great. Yeah, so that has been, because my hair's getting long and it needs to be conditioned, but it's also pretty fine. So I can't have anything that weighs it down too much
Doree Shafrir (05:21):
Or
Doree Shafrir (05:21):
Makes it look greasy. Okay. Good job pros. Yeah. I also
Elise Hu (05:27):
Like the way pros smells
Doree Shafrir (05:29):
Well, because you can choose your scent and I don't typically love scented stuff, but I feel like it is. I choose my scent, which I like, and then I also, it's not overly scented, which is nice. I'm not sure if this discount code still works, but you can try pros.com/forever three five and possibly get 50% off your first order. So
Elise Hu (05:57):
Maybe it'll work.
Doree Shafrir (05:58):
Maybe it'll work. Yeah. Again, not an ad, just a sincere endorsement of again, an on again off again advertiser.
Elise Hu (06:07):
Okay. Dora, how is everything going with your reorganization or organization project?
Doree Shafrir (06:15):
I did the big clean out of Henry's playroom. I sold a bunch of stuff. I gave away a bunch of stuff. I threw out a lot of stuff, and then I moved on to his bedroom, specifically his bookshelves, and again, did a real pruning and that felt really good. And I still have a little bit more I need to do in his room. And then I would like to move on to the dining room, which is just a sort of repository of papers and junk and stuff. And you know how sometimes you have clutter that becomes part of the scenery?
Elise Hu (07:03):
Yes, yes. I have one of those stacks in my kitchen and I just never bother to visit it,
Doree Shafrir (07:09):
And it almost doesn't register to me anymore because I'm so used to it
(07:16)
And I'm like, wait, this is bad. It's funny because I feel like when I've talked about this in the past, there is this movement to not embrace clutter, but to sort of be like nonjudgmental about clutter. And I don't view it as a value judgment. I view it more, it's like all the executive function stuff that I've been talking about. I don't feel like it's good for my brain for our house to be so cluttered. It makes me feel sort of blocked. So that's where it's coming from. Not like I feel morally bad for having a cluttered at home.
Elise Hu (07:56):
You know what, it's not a moral failing.
Doree Shafrir (07:57):
Right,
Elise Hu (07:57):
Exactly.
Doree Shafrir (07:58):
It's not a moral failing.
Elise Hu (07:59):
You actually just need to get some things out of the way. It's just a practical concern more than
Doree Shafrir (08:03):
I can. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I just want to be clear. That's where I'm coming from with it.
Elise Hu (08:10):
Yeah. Because not somebody who has to have a clean desk, but then some people cannot work unless their desk is pristine. And then I think, oh, I don't even know what that would be like to not have just stuff everywhere on my desk, it seems
Doree Shafrir (08:26):
Like. Yeah, I did clear off my desk and now there seems to still be a pile of stuff on here, so I'm like including the executive function handout. Okay. Everything comes back around. Exactly. It needs a home, right? Yeah. So it's a work in progress. My parents are coming, when is this airing? Oh yeah. So they're coming at the end of this week when this airs, and I don't think it's realistic for the whole house to be decluttered before they come, but I would like for it to be a little bit less cluttered than it has been in the past. I mean, they usually stay in the playroom because a pullout sofa, so
Doree Shafrir (09:14):
They're
Doree Shafrir (09:14):
Familiar with what it has been like.
Doree Shafrir (09:17):
So
Doree Shafrir (09:18):
I think they will be able to see the difference.
Elise Hu (09:21):
The playroom will be ready to welcome your parents. So
Doree Shafrir (09:25):
The
Elise Hu (09:25):
Rest will the be finished incrementally.
Doree Shafrir (09:28):
Yes, exactly. Well, should we introduce our guest?
Elise Hu (09:34):
Yes, I'm happy to do it. Since due to connection issues, I'm not in the full interview, so you'll hear me drop off and it's not because I just disappeared into outer space, it's because my connection died. So Dory really drives a lot of this interview. I will be back for the intentions I
Doree Shafrir (09:52):
Do,
Elise Hu (09:53):
But first I will introduce Cadence Dubus who comes to her teaching. Like we said, she teaches movement and fitness from her history with modern dance, Pilates strength, neuro re-patterning, and yoga. She has worked with a loyal clientele of women in their seventies and eighties, and then she worked with Diverse Bodies for more than 20 years, and then she founded Brooklyn's Strength where she works with clients wherever they are. So she works with clients virtually and helps with scar tissue injury and recovery, the complexities of pregnancy and birth, the circumstances that really make up our lives and our struggles and celebrations. Ultimately, she works to help you find relief movement and express the power of your strength. Like we said, she's not just a personal trainer. That would be too limiting of a title for what Cadence does.
Doree Shafrir (10:43):
Yes. Alright, before we get to her, just a reminder that you can visit our website Forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned here on the show. We are on Instagram at Forever35podcast. Our Patreon is at patreon.com/Forever35. I think we alluded to our conversation we had in our casual chat a little earlier, but we do those casual chats every Friday and they're just more like freewheeling. And then we have our pop culture recommendation episodes every month, and we have our Patreon chat, we have ad free episodes. There's a lot happening on our Patreon, the Forever
Elise Hu (11:26):
35 questionnaire.
Doree Shafrir (11:28):
Oh yes. And the forever
Elise Hu (11:29):
That
Doree Shafrir (11:29):
Questionnaire, which is super fun. I feel like that's every
Elise Hu (11:32):
Tuesday.
Doree Shafrir (11:33):
Yeah. We have a series of questions that we ask all of our guests. It's like a lightning round of questions and they're really fun and guests get really, they really enjoy it. It's like questions that they've never really thought of. You can shop our favorite products at Shopmy.us/forever35. Sign up for our newsletter at Forever35podcast.com/newsletter. And if you'd like to reach us, you can call or text us at (781) 591-0390 and email us at Forever35podcast@gmail.com and we will be right back with Cadence. I am so excited to have you on the show today. Cadence, welcome to Forever35.
Cadence Dubus (12:21):
Thank you so much. I'm very excited to be here.
Doree Shafrir (12:24):
It feels very timely to have you on, and I know our listeners also have been, they have a lot of questions about these topics as well, so we're excited to get into it. But before we do that, we are going to ask you the question that we ask all of our guests to kick things off, which is what is a self-care practice that you have that you can share with our listeners?
Cadence Dubus (12:47):
Mine is maybe unfair because it requires that you have a dog, but
Doree Shafrir (12:53):
Okay. I do have a dog, so I'm listening
Cadence Dubus (12:58):
50% of the way. I really have become attuned to how my daily dog walk. I mean, they get walked more than once a day, but our middle of the day walk is our longest walk, and I have really noticed that that walk is just such an important time for me to clear my head, to be outside, to basically become present. And I've had several dogs in my lifetime, and always when one passes away before the next one, I have this moment where I don't have that daily need to go outside for an hour. And I am astonished at the humongous spiraling effect of not having that space. They're always thrilled to be outside and they're always in that gratitude of it's sunny, it's a beautiful day. No matter what's going on in the news or all the things that are burdening us, I can just kind of notice like, oh, they're literally just enjoying this moment and I can do that with them and literally let them kind of guide me. So that is a self-care practice that has become very important for my sanity
Doree Shafrir (14:12):
As a fellow dog owner. I have several follow-up questions please. One is, do you have a set route or do you do more of a sniff walk where your dog is just leading you to wherever
Cadence Dubus (14:26):
Today is, do whatever you want Dog day, which we do one time a year on their birthday where they literally are wandering and I'm just making sure they're not going out into traffic or into somebody's house, but I'm like, today is do whatever you want dog day. Otherwise, I'm very lucky that I kind of bizarrely live on beach in Brooklyn, which people often don't realize that New York City is a city that's right on water. And it was my post pandemic move to kind of live where I liked to recreate. I used to drive the dogs down here every week at least once, and now I live in a building that's pretty much right on the water. So we walk on the beach every day, which is great.
Doree Shafrir (15:12):
Oh my gosh,
Cadence Dubus (15:14):
It's pretty ridiculous.
Doree Shafrir (15:16):
We should probably transition to fitness because that is why you are here on the show. I'd love to just hear how you kind of initially got into fitness. Were you athletic as a kid? How did this happen?
Cadence Dubus (15:30):
Good question. I always tell the story of how I first started in Pilates as being extremely non-romantic and that a lot of people get into my field, which primarily I teach bodies how to get stronger and how to feel more connected and how to care for yourself through the mode of moving your body. I wouldn't call myself a personal trainer, and I have been teaching so long that to say that I teach one mode of fitness doesn't really resonate anymore because I have so many strains of things that come into my teaching. But I did start with Pilates because I was a dancer in New York City, and if you're a dancer in New York City, you're either going to wait tables or teach fitness or be a nanny, and I was already nanny. And for anyone out there is nannied. It's very weird. And you're inserted into people's marriages and their home lives and you're 20 years old and also you're picking people's children up and you're in charge of their health and wellbeing and you're 20, so you're not so great at your own health and wellbeing.
(16:42)
Who was very, by luck that I had already had this really incredible anatomy background and been introduced to functional anatomy in that way. I didn't realize that you could teach fitness in that way. And so I was inspired immediately, and then that just led me into a zillion education and different modalities and becoming so curious about how our bodies work and really passionate about teaching people about how our bodies work. Because I think the huge missing link is that we don't get taught literally, especially as women, how our bodies work on so many levels. And then what we do get is pressure to change our bodies constantly. But if, first of all, if you don't know how your body works, I'm not about to start recreating a car because I don't know how a car works, so that's not going to go well. But also maybe if you know how a car works, you're like, oh, I shouldn't be rebuilding. This car actually is great. We're just constantly fed, especially as women that by time you're 28, everything is going downhill, everything is constantly going downhill, everything is terrible and negative, and it's very hard to learn to connect to your body, listen to your body, care about your body when your first introduction to your own body is that basically it started bad and needs to be changed from there.
Elise Hu (18:09):
Right, right, exactly. Well, that leads to one of my questions, which is, and I know your clientele is largely virtual these days, but what are women most concerned about when it comes to their fitness or what kinds of questions are you getting about fitness from your clients these days?
Cadence Dubus (18:29):
I think most of my clientele really comes to me kind of burned out on fitness, and so they usually have a history of restrictive eating or exercising to punish themselves as I would really say that most of us do. And at one point or another, they did finally stop that pattern, but now they're in their mid forties or in their mid fifties, and I also have clients who are in their seventies and eighties even, and then they're like, I do realize I need to move my body in some way. I can tell that I'm getting aches and pains. I don't like what my posture is like or whatever, or my doctor says I have to build some bone density. Please do not make me go to Orangetheory. How do I do this in a way that aligns with my values and doesn't feel like self-harm? So that's usually where I come in and that is really my skill because I really believe that we can learn to create a consistent, what I would call movement practice, even just to pull us a little further away from mainstream fitness that tick all those boxes for you but isn't going to become this metric driven, perfectionist kind of misery inducing thing, which also is never going to last unless you just have unbelievable capacity to be miserable, which some people do. Yeah.
Doree Shafrir (19:56):
What are the questions you ask a new client?
Cadence Dubus (20:00):
I do an intake, almost like a little personal story about your body. Literally just tell me the story of your body. How is your body today? Because usually people come in because they've had that little impetus. A doctor said, you got to do something about bone density or whatever, or they were like, I really hurt my back on vacation, and that was just such a bummer. I don't want to experience that. So first we talk about that first thing. Okay, how is that? How is it now? What's hurting? What's helping? Just giving me a sense of a framework to start with, but then I want to just know what is the story of your body, past injuries, surgeries, obviously those are big ones to know, but it's extremely personal, it's extremely intimate. So I definitely hear about sexual abuse. I definitely hear about just accidents, traumatic incidents that were never really addressed the amount of people that were hurt as children because they fell out of a tree or fell off their bike and maybe never got validated or never got seen because they have parents that are just like, you're fine. That led to them internalizing that this pain that they felt wasn't real and how that's played out their lives. I mean, it goes on and on, just the stories that we hold on or the one gym teacher or your grandma that said a thing to you that you've just believed now forever and ever and ever. So I want to hear those because that helps me just start to work with someone in a way that's going to be doable for them and
Doree Shafrir (21:37):
Comfortable. And I'm noticing that you don't use the word goals. Goals. Is that something that you're trying to move people away from?
Cadence Dubus (21:50):
Yeah, I think that our current culture is, so we're in this body hacking. There's a thing to attach to your body to read every possible thing. And if anything, I struggle with my clients sometimes coming to literally saying things like my whatever thing tells me that I slept well last night, but I feel really terrible, or the opposite, I feel rested, but my thing told me I hardly slept, so I guess I really should be careful today or whatever. And I'm just like, oh my God. Too much data. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's like a sci-fi movie where we're really outsourcing our complete awareness of our bodies to all these phone being like, you have to walk 300 more steps. And then they're like, oh my god, I have to walk the more steps. So I try to just start to help people tap into their own knowledge, which it almost sounds kind of woo woo or something to be like the solution to your own problems.
(22:55)
But when it comes to our bodies, our bodies are really in conversation with us. So especially when I work with people who have pain or recurring injuries, my goal is to really empower them to be guiding our sessions. So for example, this is a very extreme situation, but I had a client once who was really certain that her neck had been damaged and she was really, really scared about it and it was linked to a lot of just other stuff in her personal life. But when I would watch her when we were just talking and she was just getting ready for her session and we weren't doing our session yet, she would be talking with her head moving around and laughing and her head open down really just basic indicators. I'm not saying that she couldn't have a bulge disc and be doing that or whatever, but the kind of damage that is basically as soon as we would start moving, she would become really rigid and say, oh, I can't, my neck won't all these things.
(23:56)
And I'm not even saying that that was imaginary, but it is just really interesting. I was able to literally just let her know that when you're just talking to me, your neck is moving with what appears to be ease, but then when we start doing other stuff, it seems like it really shifts. What does that feel like for you? Are you noticing that difference? And that was really useful information for her because she had a really strong story that her neck is always painful and it has all this restriction, and no one had ever said that to her that I see your head moving as though your neck doesn't have restrictions. So where does that bring us next for our work? So I think that because of mainstream fitness, we have this idea that moving your body looks very specific and also that you have to be healthy in a certain way, but we all have the capacity to move in quite a wide variety in the right environment and circumstance, and certainly with the right guidance, which often is ourselves, but if you feel like it's not you, then somebody like me to help you find that self.
Doree Shafrir (25:05):
So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.
Elise Hu (25:17):
What do you think folks can do at home to sort of improve our connections with our bodies that is sort of knowing where they are in space, understanding how we feel and believing ourselves when we feel a certain way. I mean, it sounds like so much of your work is about bodily awareness. What let's get practical. What are things that folks can do at home to help improve that?
Cadence Dubus (25:40):
My first thing that I give to people if they really feel like they struggle with that is to literally notice when you have to go pee and go pee, right? Then it's a really low bar because I think that if you have any kind of job, you probably don't pee when you have to pee 75% of the time because we also got taught to do that when we were in school, and we all do the thing where we're finishing an email and you just kind of notice, oh, I have to pee, and then you're just like, whatever, I'll just shoot this email out and then, oh, somebody just wrote me back. Lemme just do that.
(26:14)
40 minutes goes by and you had to pee and because you're an adult, you're not going to pee your pants. But it's such a easy low bar. It doesn't have anything to do with food, it doesn't have anything to do with hunger cues, all these things that people, there's a lot of stress and anxiety around. It's just straight, a really simple cue that our body gives us a bunch of times a day that doesn't really have any politics around it. And I think it can also it very quickly into respecting your bodily comfort because when you do start doing that and just peeing when you have to pee, you're like, wow, I feel better. I'm focused more. I'm now noticing other cues like I'm hungry or I'm thirsty, or I'm tired, or I'm super stressed and actually I'm going to pause and not write back to that email because I am worried I'm not going to write in a very nice tone or whatever. I think that those really small, subtle places very quickly tip the dominoes into other areas of our lives because if you are something that I say to my clients as much as I possibly can is what we are practicing regularly, the most things that we are practicing
(27:27)
Is what we are practicing for our life for everything. So if I'm practicing pushing aside my most basic bodily need, I'm practicing telling my body that my most basic needs are not important,
(27:42)
And if I just keep doing that, you can see that ripple out. Now I'm having conversations with people, I have people in my social life that I don't enjoy that don't make me feel comfortable, but I keep hanging out with 'em because I have been telling myself for a really long time that the physical cues that my body gives me anxiety around someone, discomfort around someone is actually not important, and I should ignore that. And it sounds like very grandiose, but I've literally seen this change people's lives where, I mean, we had a client who quit his whole Wall Street job and moved home to be back with his family literally, basically because he started working out with us, connected to his body, realized how unbelievably stressed and miserable he was all day and was like, you guys, you completely changed my life and I'm retiring. Goodbye. I mean, I've seen clients make that change for sure.
Doree Shafrir (28:39):
I want to talk a little bit about how Skinniness has kind of started permeating the culture. Again, we sort of seem like we had this brief moment of body positivity and really kind of countering fat phobia or body neutrality. That was something that I was sort of striving for. And then we got hit with heroin Chic is Back and everyone's on Ozempic, and it just felt like, to me, it felt like a little bit like a regression in some ways. So I'm curious from your perspective, first of all, how are you dealing with the skinness cultural norms with your clients? And then also how have GLP Ones changed your relationship with your clients with regards to their fitness? How navigate that with a client who's on a GLP one?
Cadence Dubus (29:46):
Well, first I want to say I firmly believe that this bubble will also burst, so I manage my own feelings around it and try to manage anyone else's by just saying
Doree Shafrir (29:58):
Fair.
Cadence Dubus (30:04):
If you just look at fashion trends, we swing from minimalist to Maximalist, it all just goes back and forth. We will move through this ultra skinny moment and we will come out on the other side with something else and it'll just keep cycling back around. So I actually wrote recently about this and noted, I got interviewed by the Irish Times exactly 10 years ago about how Skinny was out and strong was in, and I was like, look at that. Now we're back. It took 10 years. So I think always these things are in reaction to something else, and I think I'm very fortunate that my clients are pretty clued in, and I don't have too many people that are really feeling like they are. I mean, everyone feels like they should be skinnier. The message that we get, and I know that my clients more and more are telling me that whatever ailment they come to their doctors with, their doctors are like, you should just take a glp. And they're like, I really don't want to. Wow. Yeah. And okay, there are other medications for heart disease or whatever. Please,
(31:24)
I don't need this one that's going to do all these other things. To me that's really disturbing because I end up, I've literally sent resources to clients on just patient advocacy and especially to my clients that are in bigger bodies and literally just fat clients of mine. There are lots of resources where you ask questions like to the doctor, if I was thin, what would you recommend? Can we talk about that? Can we just notice the lens that you're going through and literally just close your eyes, pretend I'm thin, and what options would you give me?
(32:02)
So I do a lot of that kind of advocacy on the part of my clients or validating them and being like, here's some people that have resources for you. The first assessment that I do is literally just visually, I'm watching you move, I'm watching you interact with space, and I'm getting told a lot of information just by seeing how you do really basic things. So our first session, I usually have people just roll down head towards the ground, sit stand, literally primary color movements just to let's just see what your body does. Looking at a client that had taken Ozempic and this person had lost 70 pounds, and I didn't know what their body looked like before. It was very disconcerting because I really couldn't tell what that shift had done to their body. I had no metric, and it was because there is so much muscle loss often with glp.
(33:04)
It's like I was seeing this body after a humongous transition that was artificially created in some way, or I don't know, people get, it's not a judgment, but it's a different feeling than when someone has lost weight because the disease that they took that they had has resolved or whatever, they're not depressed and now they're moving more and their body has changed. I think what's really insidious about GLP is that normally I tell people that we all really have body types and we can only change so much within the body type that we're already given, but because GLP affect muscle, people can kind of change their body type and you can have a person who's naturally thicker and stockier turn out really quite thin. And that is really disturbing because I don't think it's a good thing to lose muscle. I think most people would agree with that.
(34:11)
And this client did say they've never felt weaker, and they were very concerned about that. And because I didn't know them before, it was hard for me to assess how much of this is natural for you pushing this amount of weight or whatever. I don't know what your strength bubble was like before. And I will say, and this is maybe a judgment, there is a dissociation happening if you are medically losing weight that is similar to the dissociation that happens when people are focusing their entire lives on losing weight by restricting calories and working out a zillion hours a day. And that is troublesome because it's hard to be connected to a body that you're really manipulating so much. And I'm not even saying don't do it, and I'm not saying you're bad or dumb or whatever. People are making use of tools that are available in a world and society that does not support us to be healthy and balanced or have the ability to have balanced lives.
(35:21)
So I a hundred percent believe that. And if it's helping you get there, then that's a great reason to do it. But there is just notice that there is some kind of disconnect, and so a very outside way of viewing your own body except that we live in our body. And so that is a tricky place. And with all that being said, I would love to work with someone who's on GLP and help them during that transition so that hopefully they can be as in touch as possible during that because it's hard. It's really hard to be in a body.
Doree Shafrir (36:00):
Yeah, it's all hard. And I think people are on GMPs for different reasons. And I mean, I have no judgment about any of it. I just, I'm more sort of curious about how it affects how people think about their bodies and how they move through the world. So that's where my questions are coming from. But you did mention bone density and muscle mass, and we've had a lot of conversations on our show about perimenopause and menopause and people talking about preventing loss of muscle mass and increasing bone density, particularly in these seasons of our lives. And I'm wondering what you recommend in terms of strength training, lifting anything to help people during this time? How can people get started and what do you suggest?
Cadence Dubus (37:01):
Yeah, I think that's the question right there is do they need to get started or do they already have some kind of movement practice and then they're realizing, I don't know if this is really cutting it at this stage in my life. So I think that's the first place for anyone to start is to really just ask themselves questions. What did they already do? What are they curious about doing? What do they want from this? What's easy for them? I would love to go dog sledding all the time, but it's just really not something that you can do in Brooklyn, New York. But if I live in Alaska, I would totally sign up for that on the weekends.
(37:42)
So often I've had quite a number of women that always had a really great yoga practice, and then they're just realizing now they're in their forties. That's really not cutting it for them in terms of strength building. So the real next question is how much of a chore do you find exercise? Some people are very good at being like, great, this is the way to solve this problem. I'm just going to do it. I'm going to sign up and I'm going to do my strength training twice a week, and I just check it off my list. And I don't really have that much baggage around it, and whether I enjoy it or not, who cares? I'm getting the results that I want. I feel stronger, I feel more capable, I feel less fragile in my body. Great. If you're just like, I have a long history of really, I don't like exercising, I don't like sweating.
(38:32)
I was the kid that got picked last for the gym class team, I have a lot of discomfort around this. Then I would really recommend that you find anything that you're curious about. Even if it's rock climbing, it could be a roller skate class and just start with any movement that you're vaguely interested in and just try and do that. And if that works, awesome. Just keep up that consistency. And then what people often want is a three month plan, and now they're done and they work out all the time and everything is great. I just talked to a client of mine who when she first came to me, she now has two kids, and one of them is, I've probably known her for 10 years and I think I worked with her. I think she first came in with her first pregnancy, and she was someone who would self-describe as like, oh, she doesn't exercise and she really can't, is not interested and blah, blah, blah. And she was really motivated during her pregnancies, but otherwise would really pop in and out of my offerings. And I do a virtual running club, which is one of my favorite things that we do because it's extremely, extremely beginner friendly.
(39:51)
And she did that club and she did it a couple of times. Actually. She ended up running a half marathon, then she kind of stopped running altogether. And then recently she reached out to me and was like, I started strength training again. And she was like, literally, it was so cute. She sent me a picture of this whiteboard in her gym that it said Cadence's classes offer. And she was like, I'm strength training with you because she's now works for a bike philanthropy thing, like bringing bikes to communities. And she's like, I'm biking all the time, and my coworkers introduced me to gravel biking and it's super fun and I want to get stronger for it. And so it's circled all the way back to, she basically found a thing that she's really excited about that she really wants to do, and now in order to do it better and have more fun, she's like, I got to get stronger.
(40:46)
And so now she's back re-engaged doing the strength training, and it has this much bigger picture, which is so much more fun than bone density muscle mass where we're the same age. She's in her early forties and she's like, I've never been fitter. I literally get up at 6:00 AM to do my strength workouts. You could never tell me that I would ever have done that. I mean, when I first met her, she was run out the door late, hasn't eaten breakfast for not a 6:00 AM working out person. And I'm not saying that should be everyone's goal, but I think that's a 10 year journey this person went through.
Doree Shafrir (41:22):
Wow.
Cadence Dubus (41:22):
So give yourself time to go on a journey and trust that it's worth it. And it doesn't mean that in the middle. I, in the middle of that journey, she ran a half marathon. In the middle of that journey, she did all these different things. It wasn't like she was constantly stopping and starting to the point where she was starting from ground zero over and over. But I think if you go to the water aerobics class and you're like, wow, that's super fun, trust that if you just keep going, something else is going to happen where you're going to be like, oh, there's a circus studio in my neighborhood. The water aerobics was fun. Maybe I'll try a silks class or something. And now all of a sudden you're meeting all these other people that are introducing other things. This is how our lives play out.
(42:04)
And I think when we talk about our bodies and our fitness practices, we're really used to getting this every day something thing or this little prescription, which really does not suit how life works, and it also doesn't suit how our actual bodies work. Like that client I was talking about had two kids over that decade. Obviously she did different things while she was nine months pregnant versus when she was not pregnant. But we aren't told that the way that we should care for our body or engage with our body physically is going to change sometimes drastically within a year, within five years. And so we tend to just give ourselves the story that I started a thing and I failed. I started a thing, I got injured. I'm a failure. I started a thing. I didn't like it. I'm terrible at it. Instead of just continuing to try again, just like you would if you were like, oh, I got a spider by great British Bake off and I'm going to make brownies and now I'm going to try making a cake. And we're so much less harsh, right? We're like, oh, the brownies were kind of okay. The cake didn't really work. Let me try this. Supposed to be we're really nice to ourselves. And in a 10 year period you could turn into this person that all your friends are asking to bake for their kids' birthdays. But when we look at our own physical practice, we're like, oh, I tried running once and I was terrible at it, and I'm never ever doing it again.
Doree Shafrir (43:17):
Right. I'm done. That's it. Yeah. Well, that feels like a great note to end on. Cadence. It was so great to get to talk to you. I love your whole philosophy and your takes on everything, and I feel very inspired now. So thank
Cadence Dubus (43:36):
You. I'm so glad. It was so great to talk to you.
Doree Shafrir (43:38):
Yeah. Where can our listeners find you? I know we didn't even talk about your online programs, but where can our listeners find you?
Cadence Dubus (43:47):
So my studio is Brooklyn Strength. You can find me@brooklynstrength.com. I have three self-paced series that you can sign up for anytime you want. One is rehab based. It's called Start Relief. One is sort of, if I could wave a magic wand and everyone started one, it would be the Start Stability series, which teaches you kind of just how your body works and how it's put together and kind of common injuries and issues. It is sort of Pilates based, so it's mat work, but it's almost a collection of mini lecture demonstration workshops where you can really get a lot of questions answered about why does my shoulder hurt. And then the last one is Start Strength, which is a strength-based program. And I also have a podcast called Busybody where I interview people about having bodies and most of them have written books of some kind. So I've had some really great conversations there. And I have a substack called After Class where I write more in depth about some of these ideas, and I'm happy to have people engage on any of those things and tell me that they're out there
Doree Shafrir (44:55):
And everyone can find all of this@brooklynstrength.com.
Cadence Dubus (45:00):
And I'm on Instagram at Brooklyn Strength, and you can always DM me and you can always DM me, just random questions too. I love just kind of knowing who's out there and what they're thinking about.
Doree Shafrir (45:10):
I love that. Well, thank you so much. This is really great. Thank you.
Elise Hu (45:18):
Thank you to Cadence for joining us and giving us the boost in the reassurance to return to our bodies as she talks about and not be so disconnected. It's a vital
Doree Shafrir (45:31):
Connection. Yes. I just loved her message. Well, Elise, let's get into the intention zone. You were going to read more fiction last week. How did that go?
Elise Hu (45:45):
I didn't read the fiction. I did not read said fiction because I was so busy, as I mentioned on the Casual chat, being a sport agent for my seventh grader. However, I did one of my library books came off of Hold. I'm so excited. It is fiction. It is Flashlight by Susan Choi. So Susan Choi wrote Trust exercise about that. Yes. I love School for Performing Arts. Yes. Well, flashlight is her new one. I have 20 days to finish it. I sent it to my e-reader. I'm very excited. So I am going to fulfill my intention of last week this weekend.
Doree Shafrir (46:22):
Oh, good. What do you think you have coming up this week?
Elise Hu (46:24):
This week I'm going to take a page out of Cadence's book and work on movement and strength.
Doree Shafrir (46:33):
Exciting.
Elise Hu (46:33):
And maybe I should do a little rehab type ankle stuff with my daughter. Maybe we'll do some mommy daughter movement and strength.
Doree Shafrir (46:41):
I love that.
Elise Hu (46:42):
So I don't know if she can quite yet, but I'm just going to put movement and strength. Yeah. I don't want to be like, Hey, let's do something together. Correct. Oops.
Doree Shafrir (46:56):
What about you, Dora? Well, I said last week I was going to tackle Henry's room and I did. Yay. Yay. There's some more tackling to go, but I made a huge dent in what I needed to do in there. And like I said, at the top of the show this week, my parents are coming to visit. It's a pretty quick visit. My parents love to fly across the country and then stay for two days. They get in Thursday night and they're leaving Sunday afternoon.
Elise Hu (47:30):
Oh, wow. That is very short from Boston.
Doree Shafrir (47:32):
Yeah.
Elise Hu (47:33):
Whoa. Alright.
Doree Shafrir (47:34):
Okay. I mean, my mom, part of it is because my mom still teaches teaching. She has to be back to teach, but it is funny, like it's quite a long flight and you're only staying. But anyway,
Elise Hu (47:51):
It's kind of them to do that. You're the only daughter that's all the way over here. Her other
Doree Shafrir (47:55):
Kids
Elise Hu (47:55):
Are on the East Coast and nearby. Right? They're
Doree Shafrir (47:57):
The East coast. My sister at least used to be in Austin, so sometimes they would go to Austin and then come see me because it was like intermediate stop and yeah. Now everyone is on the East coast, so I really am the odd sibling out here. But yeah, I just want to have a nice chill visit with them. That is my intention for the week.
Elise Hu (48:20):
Alright, we're putting it out there. Wish me luck.
Doree Shafrir (48:22):
Thank you. Alright, thanks everyone for listening. Forever35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Samee Hu. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast. Thanks everybody. Talk next
Elise Hu (48:38):
Time.
Doree Shafrir (48:38):
Bye.