Mini-Ep 447: One Point At A Time
Elise tells about the fun Taylor Swift-themed birthday party she attended over the weekend. Then, Doree re-traumatizes Elise with a listener text about her ~bird experience~ and they hear from listeners with Zion National Park advice, Money Month feedback, and more curly hair and puppy training recs.
Mentioned in this Episode
Chapters
*Time stamps are approximate and do not include ads
0:00 - Intro
~9:00 - Bird Text
~10:00 - Zion recs
~13:00 - first ad break
~13:15 - Money month feedback
~16:40 - Advice for the listener who got laid off
~19:00 - Tennis Mantra
~22:00 - Curly hair prods
~23:35 - second ad break
~23:50 - Childcare question
~28:00 - Oscar advice
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Transcript
This episode transcript is AI generated.
Doree (00:10):
Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise (00:17):
And I'm Elise Hu. And we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums,
Doree (00:21):
And this is a mini episode where we hear from you, we share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability. But please remember, we are podcast hosts. We're not experts, and we always encourage you to seek support first and foremost from a medical and or mental health professional as needed.
Elise (00:39):
You are an expert in some topics, though. You've become an expert in recreational tennis.
Doree (00:46):
Yes. It's also funny you mentioned that because this morning my friend Jody texted me and she was like, Hey, can I put you in touch with this other woman who I sort of know she needs some sun clothing recommendations? And I was like, sure. So she texts both of us and I started spamming her with links to the point where I was like, oh, I should stop. She was like, no, this is great. I love it. And I was like, okay, well here's another thing. It demonstrates your
Elise (01:17):
Expertise in that particular
Doree (01:19):
Topic. Yes. And my passion. And my
Elise (01:22):
Passion and your passion truly. I was like, oh no.
Doree (01:25):
Don't forget about driving gloves.
Elise (01:29):
You don't want one arm to look like a truckers and then the other arm to not. Exactly. So
Doree (01:36):
Yeah,
Elise (01:37):
This reminds me that I used to play golf in high school and you only wear a golf glove on one hand.
Doree (01:43):
Yes.
Elise (01:44):
And so I had the weirdest farmer's tan.
Doree (01:46):
Oh my
Elise (01:46):
Gosh. I had a much lighter hand, like a one darker one and one lighter one because of the golf glove. Oh my gosh.
Doree (01:57):
Of course. Yeah. That's so funny.
Elise (01:59):
What a
Doree (02:00):
Time. Time. Well, how are you?
Elise (02:03):
I'm good. I'm recording today from a different spot because I'm starting to work a little bit for a kids podcast in which we're going to put out episodes to help parents talk about difficult topics with their kids. Cool. And so later today I'm going to interview Virginia Soul Smith, former forever 35 guest who's awesome, love Virginia. She's the author of Fat Talk and she's going to come on and talk to us about how to talk to your kids about body image and fat phobia, and I'm excited about that and we're going to talk about band books and all those things, but it is weird going into an office. Usually I walk about 10 feet in my soft pants to podcast with you, but today I got up in the morning, I showered, I went and got my tea on my way to work. I got in the car and drove here. I had a commute. I'm all,
Doree (03:00):
Wow. Yeah, it's a whole different life
Elise (03:06):
Having
Doree (03:07):
To leave the house.
Elise (03:08):
Oh boy.
Doree (03:09):
Matt has been doing some freelance work for this company and he has to leave the house, and so I've been alone in the house all day, which I haven't been in years. And I mean, it's nice. It's different.
Elise (03:26):
Do you love it? Yeah, I was going to say, do you love just having the house to yourself?
Doree (03:29):
Yeah. It's like, oh, I'm by myself. This is kind of cool. Not that we interacted that much during the day because we both had stuff going on, but I dunno, it's just different.
Elise (03:41):
Yeah. Yeah. I do like my Monday mornings because the girls are custody. The way that it works with my girls is they are at my house every night, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then on the weekends they go to Maddie's. And so the only school morning where I don't have the hectic chaos of getting them out the door into school and taking the dog out and la la la is Monday morning. And so I do really enjoy a quiet Monday morning without anyone in the house and with the possibility of sleeping in for
Doree (04:14):
Once. Totally. Oh my gosh, yes.
Elise (04:18):
Yeah. But I was going to tell you, I'm still recovering from the weekend because this past weekend was my friend, our now mutual friend Meredith's big 40th birthday where she did it completely Taylor Swift themed and it was called the Mara's Tour, and depending on when you became friends with her, you got assigned a different Taylor Swift era in chronological order. So her family was all in debut era and her earliest friends, high school friends were fearless, maybe little speak now and then her pen friends I think got moved into the red era. There were a lot of pen friends in red gear, so they did the t-shirts and things like Who is Meredith? Anyway, written on it and it was so cute. And she had a party planner, so this was done, oh my gosh. There was an amazing dj, great catering. The venue was lovely, the decorations were awesome. There was a tarot card reader, there was a tortured typewriter poet that was so cute, who was typing poems by request and then there was this whole swag section where you could get your own mirrors, tour t-shirt and lover heart sunglasses and cookies for your various era. There was a friendship bracelet making station. The food was incredible. It was like the best non-wetting that I had ever been to that was done up like a wedding, like a tens of thousands of dollars party.
Doree (05:57):
Amazing.
Elise (05:58):
Ava went because Ava was one of the four kids who was invited, and she gave me so much grief because at first I put on this blue sequin dress and came down to see if we looked kind of like we were in the same theme because we were supposed to be midnight, Sarah. And she was like, oh my god, mom, that blue, that's so 1989, that's 1989 blue or maybe speak now. Oh my God. I did not have the right blue and it was a mini crisis, so I had to switch into a more navy kind of sequiny dress and we coordinated finally. But yes, even getting the blues right was important and it was so fun. It was so fun and joyful. And she talked about how after her dad got sick, I think her dad had a cancer scare a few years ago, and her dad, Papa Joe was there, her mom, her aunts and uncles from Michigan, everybody was there, her nephews from DC and she made remarks. The dad made remarks and during her remarks she talked about how she really wants to expand not just lifespan, but joys span and joys span within a life. And I was really touched by that and thought, yeah, I felt very lucky to count myself among that friend community because a lot of, we all know we have come to know the same people, so many of the same people and it's great. So happy birthday, happy 40th birthday to Meredith, and here's to many more, many more happy returns.
Doree (07:37):
How cool, what a testament to who she is that she had so many people come to
Elise (07:44):
The
Doree (07:44):
Party from so many different parts of her life
Elise (07:48):
And she didn't want presents, but I do need to write a very heartfelt card. She loves a heartfelt card. And so now that I have been to the party and am recovering from it, I can sit down and
Doree (07:59):
Write and remind me how you know her.
Elise (08:02):
I know her through David Green, who was my one of the other hosts at NPR. He hosted Morning Edition for many years. You would recognize his voice if you heard him. He was the one who was hosting from Culver City and from Culver City, California. I'm David Green. They met randomly in DC and when she moved out here to LA for a job, we all got together and became instant friends.
Doree (08:26):
Elise, before we take a break, we did get a couple of texts and emails that are related to things that you have been talking about. So I'm going to read the first text. Alright. Oh my goodness, Elise, I just listened to your bird story. I'm traumatized just from hearing it. My family's been asking for a cat. We will never ever get one. What you experienced is my biggest nightmare. I'm glad you're okay. Somebody needs to invent a cat language app where we can tell them that we do not want dead or half dead animals, they should just cuddle us.
Elise (09:05):
I had memory hold what happened to me with Abe, my cat bringing in an almost dead bird to the bed. I had started blocking this out and this Sorry, sorry to bring it back me.
Doree (09:22):
Yeah,
Elise (09:24):
My eyes are tearing up. Oh my God. I'm having my nervous system is reacting. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no. That was so bad. That was, I dunno which episode that's in, but
Doree (09:39):
That was such an insane story. Well, you made an impact on our listeners and now on a totally different note, we got some Zion racks from a listener who has kids about the same age as yours. And this listener said, we loved staying at Zion Ponderosa Ranch in East Zion, all kinds of lodging options from glamping to cabins. Kids loved coming home after Dave hiking to a great pool slash hot tub and mini golf through East Zion adventures. We did the Elkhart Canyon repelling amazing and the best slot canyon views. We got, of course hike the narrows on your way to Zions stop at Coral Pink Sand Dune State Park so the kids can sled slash board the sand dunes. This was a huge highlight for our kids. It was one of our favorite trips.
Elise (10:36):
I got to say this makes me feel so great because I have been truly daunted about taking my kids to a national park this summer after the stories about Doge and how they fired the locksmith at Yellowstone or something and there was an hour long wait for the bathroom. But I also love the national parks and I have great memories of going to them, especially in the American Southwest when I was growing up around Issa's age, maybe fourth or fifth grade. So I've been wanting to do it. We did Yosemite one year, one summer, and then we did Grand Teton and Yellowstone last summer and so I want to do it again. And actually because of this email, I just went ahead and booked it. I was like, we're going to do it. So we have our tickets to Las Vegas and then Rob has rented the car and we're going to drive up to Zion and do the things. And on the way, we'll stop at this coral pink sand Dune state park on this listener recommendation because it does sound super rad and I can imagine the backdrop being just so majestic and vast and I love that about America and how much diversity there is in the geography.
Doree (11:44):
So cool. So thank
Elise (11:45):
You.
Doree (11:45):
Yeah, yeah. Alright, we are going to take a break, but before that our voicemail is 7 8 1 5 9 1 0 3 9 0. You all have been sending us the best voicemails, so keep them coming. You can also text us at that number and email us at Forever 35 podcast@gmail.com. We have links to everything we mentioned on the show at our website, forever 35 podcast.com. And our Instagram is Forever 35 podcast. You can sign up for our newsletter at forever podcast com slash newsletter and our favorite products are at shop my us slash forever 35. After the break, we have a real smorgasbord of listener comments, questions, feedback, so voicemails text, I'm excited to get into it. We'll be right back. Okay. We'll get into it. Okay. We are back and we are going to start with a voicemail with some feedback about money month. So here we go.
Listener Voicemail (12:54):
Hey Dory and Elise, I just wanted to provide feedback that the financial planner with such a breath of fresh air, I didn't realize how fucking sick I am of rich white people telling me what to do with the money that I don't have,
(13:10):
Not understanding systematic issues at play. Just this prescribed, if you don't have six months savings, you're fucked. And where I work for the federal government, you can put five PSP is the match, like the savings account, thrift savings program, and they match at 5%. So you're basically losing money if you don't do 5%, which I do, but everybody's like you're leaving money at the table if you don't do 6, 7, 8, 9, 10%. And if I've got two kids, I'm living in Washington, DC daycare, I mean everything's expensive. If I were to put that money into my TSP, which I'll get when I'm 70, I'd go into debt today because I got to pay for daycare, which is $25,000 a year for two kids. So anyway, it was just so refreshing and validating for somebody I felt like I was really seen. I do do intuitive spending and if I must say so myself, I've been doing it for a long time and I'm doing quite well and I just love that she made me feel valid for going with my gut.
Elise (14:16):
Love this. Yeah, this is the Dana Miranda episode that we have out right now. It's from Monday, June 9th, and she did such a good job of just having us challenge this matrix that we live in about, Hey, you need to have this much saved in retirement and you need to, and if you rent a house, it needs to be only 25% of your take home pay and all these rules that we've learned from all these gurus over the years and she was sort of like take a step back. I found it super validating too because as I said in the interview, I also haven't been operating with a budget and I think that we do learn all of these rules from various gurus and I remember you're supposed to have the three to six months and then you're not supposed to ever rent a place that's more than 25% of your monthly take home and all these various rules. And Dana Miranda, which is the Monday episode our caller is talking about, she really challenges us or encourages us to challenge that entire matrix because as she pointed out, none of these various hacks and financial tips work if you're not making enough money to live, which is the case for so many of us. So it was really helpful and eyeopening, eyeopening to say the least.
Doree (15:34):
Yeah, I think the problem is that we exist in the system where sometimes you can't rent an apartment if you don't make more than three x the rent or whatever. And it's like we butt up against some of these rules, but I thought it was really valuable to challenge our thinking about our whole capitalist system. So we also recently heard from a listener who I think was about to get laid off or thought they were going to get laid off and another listener had some advice.
Listener Voicemail (16:18):
Hello, this is Courtney calling from Denver. I was just listening to the mini app where a listener wrote in about facing down another layoff. I loved all the advice that Elise had. I just had two additional thoughts. So actually on my way to work where I work as a career counselor at a collegiate career center, this is actually part of my internship as I finish the clinical phase of my master's in counseling. But I find that oftentimes people forget that most universities and colleges have career centers and most of them do support undergrads, graduates and alumni. It kind of differs by each institution. So my institution actually offers unlimited sessions to alumni. If you're at a phase in your life where you've been laid off, you're thinking about a career change, you're just feeling unmotivated or unhappy in the work that you're doing. If you're really burnt out, you can meet with a career counselor and most of us come from this background in mental health, but that could be a really great resource if you want to talk to someone about where you're at in your career and what's next?
(17:30):
The other workbook and book that I really love is called Designing Your Life. That's two Stanford professors and it offers a bunch of really great exercises around what work means to you, what's important in your life, what type of work energizes you, and that is a book that I found a couple of years ago when I was really burnt out in my job and found it to be really impactful and I always recommend it to friends and folks who are in a similar phase. So the listener might find that interesting too. Thanks so much for everything you do and hope that listener kind of finds but an insight as she navigates a layoff. Thanks. Bye.
Elise (18:10):
Designing your life. Some good advice in here. Yeah, that was very helpful, thank you.
Doree (18:16):
Yeah, we got an email from a listener who said, heard you guys talking about tennis mantras when you're in a bad spot mentally in a game. And I wanted to share mine. Someone once told me and then I checked it that Federer only won 54% of the points he played. I always remember this and remind myself that I only have to win the next point or that losing half the points isn't terrible. Yes, I feel like this has been going around or something, but it's true. I mean Elise and I were talking about the French open men's final Raz verse sinner and it was so close. So yeah, I think that this is really good, really good advice. Maybe Raz was saying that to himself.
Elise (19:00):
He actually gave a post game press conference where he said even though he was down, he saved three match points in the fourth set. That's crazy. He was about to lose the championship three different times and just played the next point and won the next point and was able to save himself and continue on. And he actually talked about how he was like, I only focus on the next point. I don't give up. I never ever give up. And it was just like great because if I were in that situation I'd be like, okay, I'm not going to try. But no, he pushed it to five sets and a fifth set tie break. It was crazy. And this Federer stat, Federer himself brought it up in his really excellent 2024 commencement speech. I don't remember which university he gave it at, but maybe
Doree (19:54):
You know what? I think that's why it started circulating
Elise (19:58):
Now
Doree (19:58):
That you mention it,
Elise (19:59):
His commencement speech from last year's graduation. So we're back in graduation time, but from 2024 graduation season is so good. I found it deeply inspiring and listeners, I recommend it if that's a commencement speech that you haven't gotten to see or hear yet.
Doree (20:15):
Yeah, I think telling yourself one point at a time, one point at a time can be helpful Just at a recreational match. This past weekend one of our players was playing a singles match and she had lost the first set and she was down zero five in the second and then she came back to tie it five five and then they ran out of time and this sort of complicated USTA timed match procedure went into effect but she ended up winning the match just
Elise (20:49):
To show you,
Doree (20:50):
Just goes to show you, I mean that's crazy and just similarly when you're up five zero, you can't take it for granted. Absolutely either. So alright, we got one more text about curly hair. We've actually gotten a lot more, I'm being a little bit selective because some of them have been repetitive, but this person says I have wavy curly hair, I'm also white and I use a cream and gel combination hair foam is also sometimes part of a combo for curly hair and can help with frizz. Both foam and gel can create a cast around the curls that you break once it's dry. And this can help a lot with frizz. I wouldn't necessarily go for a hair oil, but my hair is also fine and it def can weigh it down. Technique in applying product and drying also matters a lot for controlling frizz. I have found at wavy curly on Instagram really helpful for technique for gel. I like not your mother's gel, which doesn't have alcohol, that can also increase frizz.
Elise (21:56):
I didn't know about this at wavy Curly, well I don't have at wavy curly hair, but my middle daughter does, so I'm going to give them a follow.
Doree (22:05):
Great. There's also a curly hair subreddit that has a couple of things pinned, like beginner curly hair processes and a lot of people they're sharing their curly hair journeys, so you could also check that out. And that's just r slash curly hair on Reddit. Cool. Alright, we are going to take another break and when we come back we have a voicemail about childcare and Elise, we're not done with feedback about Oscar, so
Elise (22:40):
You know what it, Oscar needs it, not her
Doree (22:42):
Email.
Elise (22:43):
So thank you. We'll talk about that when we come back.
Doree (22:47):
Alright, we'll be right back. Okay, we are back and we have as promised a voicemail with a question about childcare.
Listener Voicemail (23:04):
Hello. I have a question about your childcare situations. I have a 2-year-old and my partner and I work full time and it's really hard to do anything period because we always need childcare. It sounds like you go out and do things so much of the time and you definitely have older kids than I do, but you also have more kids collectively than I do. So I'm just so curious, how do you go out at night? Can the kids babysit each other? How many hours are the nannies with you? Do you have random other babysitters? I am just so and jealous and you're my inspiration. Thank you so much. And hello to my sister.
Elise (23:56):
Really good question and part of the answer is I had my small children when I lived in Asia, so I had a 2-year-old and then both my newborns in Asia and all those toddler years we lived in Seoul, South Korea where having childcare, affordable childcare 24 7 live in situation is so much more affordable. It's true for my brother who lives in Hong Kong as well. And so Yani, who's an Indonesian caretaker and helper in all sorts of ways, she actually took care of my grandfather, so two generations removed back when she was in her twenties and lived with my grandfather and my grandmother in Taiwan and after Issa was born in South Korea and I didn't have any help, my mom was like, we need to apply for a visa to try and get Yani to Seoul to take care, help take care of your family and your kids.
(25:00):
And so I had to go to the immigration office in Seoul and get her residency and everything, but we got it for her and Yani was with our family for seven years and seven really crucial years in which my children were the smallest and it's absolutely clutch. I write in the acknowledgements of my book that she was the nucleus of our family and this is why I very, I just think care is so important and then the infrastructures for care and the social policies that support care and caregiving and care taking is so vital because I don't think that our family would have made it through such a crazy busy period and I wouldn't have survived and thrived without Yani being such a crucial part of our household. Now that my kids are older, I have who works like 20 hours a week, she works like 4:00 PM to 9:00 PM and gets us through all of the really chaotic hours of dinner, homework, bath time, getting ready for school the next day, lunches as needed. I'm driving the kids around the schlepping hours. She's a real partner in that because I am single momming, and so having Lingling there is a great almost kind of a co-parent situation where I can kind of pass off. I always think it's helpful to be able to tag out as a parent. And then Maddie, my actual co-parent, my ex-husband, he does a lot of the schlepping and driving. We have three kids, so there's always responsibilities.
Doree (26:39):
There's always, it's a lot of kids,
Elise (26:40):
A lot kids. There's always somebody needed to do something. But with Lingling, Maddie and myself, then we at least have man on man. So yeah. Thanks for the
Doree (26:50):
Question. Yeah, good question.
Elise (26:52):
Yeah.
Doree (26:52):
Okay, Elise, we continue to get advice for you about Oscar
Elise (26:58):
And I need it, so bring it on.
Doree (26:59):
Bring it on. Okay. This is from our listener Barb who says Elise, we have a golden retriever puppy that is close in age to Oscar. Maisie is a female. She just turned 11 months old and is about 50 pounds. We haven't gone through anything quite as intense as you have, although we have many behaviors that we're working on. She's a counter surfer and will take things off our counters even if it's not food. She also likes to rip up blankets. So in her crate right now, we don't even have one. Basically what I wanted to tell you was that we have now hired an independent dog trainer who is fantastic. I live in Connecticut, so that obviously won't help you, but not only are we relearning some tricks to address the issues, we are also learning why these issues are occurring. I think basically a sniff walk daily is good where you kind of let them walk and sniff and you can go slowly, so there's no rush.
(27:47):
Walks in general don't really take away the energy the puppies have. One of the activities we do with our dog is we take a flirt pole, which has a toy at the end of it. The flirt pole kind of looks like a fishing rod, and you take the flirt pole and move it back and forth and they chase and try to get the toy at the end. That's one activity that our trainer said uses their brain and also gets them tired out. You might want to google flirt pole activity to see what it actually looks like because you have to keep the rope in the toy close to the ground. But her firm belief is that dogs need to have their brain challenge and that makes them more tired out than physical activity. Macy loves chasing a ball, but now we make sure we have her sit, we have her weight, we throw the ball, she brings it back. We've taught her how to drop all of these things, take a little bit of brain work and tire her out. Supposedly we invested in an obstacle course and the flirt pole was part of it, but we will then bring out the jumps, tunnel, et cetera, one at a time until she learns the activity. All of these work their brain. If you have the means, I would suggest looking for a trainer who could work with you. It's got very long. I hope it's helpful in some way.
Elise (28:47):
I hadn't heard of a flirt poll before. I did buy all the puzzles that people have recommended and Oscar just destroys the puzzle itself. Instead of, there's puzzles with little drawers where you have to open the drawers to get a treat. You just chew the crap out of the entire
Doree (29:03):
Puzzle. Oh my God. We got puzzles for Beau and he just did them really fast and then we were like, okay, this is Pless.
Elise (29:13):
That did not occupy them for 20
Doree (29:15):
Minutes. No,
Elise (29:16):
They promised that that Popsicle that they're supposed to lick is supposed to occupy them for 20 minutes. It does occupy the Popsicle. Does occupy Oscar, but for about four to five minutes, I'm not sure the $40 was worth it.
Doree (29:29):
Yeah, probably not.
Elise (29:31):
Yeah, we need to just have somebody come regularly, a trainer come regularly and work with him on various things. Really work with the family and work with Rob and me and the girls on a bunch of different things, so thank you. Thank you.
Doree (29:42):
Alright everyone, thanks so much for listening. Elise, great to see you and we will talk to you soon.
Elise (29:48):
Talk to you soon.
Doree (29:49):
Bye.