Mini-Ep 359: Only A Message Away
Kate and Doree hear from listeners about questions when to make a relationship “official”, letting your in-laws win one, and keeping in touch with friends.
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Transcript
Kate: Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Kate Spencer.
Doree: And I'm Doree Shafrir.
Kate: And we're not experts.
Doree: We're not. We're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums,
Kate: And this is a mini episode where we hear from you, we share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability.
Doree: But again, we're podcast hosts. We're not experts. You gotta seek support first and foremost from a medical and or mental health professional as needed. Reach out to them,
Kate: Dont just talk to us.
Doree: No, don't just talk to us. That's a bad idea.
Kate: Yeah, I mean, we're great, but we're not the end of the road here. If you do wanna reach us, we love to hear from you. Our voicemail number, and you can text us here too, is (781) 591-0390, and our email is forever35podcast@gmail.com.
Doree: And just a reminder, you can visit our website forever35podcast.com for links to everything you mentioned on the show. Follow us on Instagram @Forever35podcast. Join the Forever35 Facebook group at facebook.com/groups/forever35podcast. The password is serums and you can sign up for a newsletter at Forever35podcast.com/newsletter. And also you can shop our fave products shopmy.us/forever35.
Kate: Doree. I wanna talk about body piercing today.
Doree: Okay. All right, I'm ready.
Kate: Because I took my youngest child to get her ears pierced this weekend. And unlike how I have pierced all my ears, all my ears, how I have pierced all the holes in my ears, and unlike how my first daughter got her ears pierced, we went to a professional body piercing shop.
Doree: Cool. Okay, I'm listening
Kate: And it's called, I just wanna give them a shout. It's called Golden Age Body Piercing. It's in the Eagle Rock section of Los Angeles. They were fantastic and. Yeah. And the reason it's better to get pierced by a body piercer than with the little earring guns that they have at jewelry shops, I think.
Doree: Okay.
Kate: For a variety of reasons, but that is my understanding in the Googling I have done. So we went here and we, my daughter had such a great experience. It was very sweet. The piercer doing, the person doing the piercing was amazing, and they just took really good care of her. And I was like, oh yeah, I wanna get more stuff pierced. It reignited the desire to pierce, which is something I have.
Doree: Really?
Kate: Yeah.
Doree: Okay. So what are you going to pierce?
Kate: I'm thinking a little car. There's a little kind of cartilage chunk that's kind of on the inside of your ear. I don't know what this part of the ear is called.
Doree: Oh, I know what you're talking about. I also don't know what it is called, but I know what you're talking about.
Kate: I'm sure cartilage chunk is not what.
Doree: I mean, we don't know that.
Kate: That's true. Now I'm looking up part of the ear seeing, I can find it, but you, I bet you know what I'm talking about when I say Cart,
Doree: Yes.
Kate: Tragus? Tragus.
Doree: Oh the tragus. Okay.
Kate: I think that's what it's called. I already have the upper part of my ear pierced. I've got four other holes in that ear, and then I've got three holes in my other ear. So I'm kind of running out of some room in my ears and I don't think I would do anything else. I have had belly button eyebrow and nose pierced at points in my life, but I dunno it, I forgot how fun it can be to pierce and how, what the cool form of self-expression it is. And they had so many cool options. Also, the world of piercing has gotten so much better since I last had a needle shoved in my face. It was just, was just intriguing. It was intriguing as all I'll say. And I just,
Doree: Okay.
Kate: We've talked about tattoos and other forms of body work self expression and self care, but I just kind of was intrigued by piercing. And I think especially piercing is often, and I also wanna say I'm speaking as a white American woman. Culturally piercing appears differently. It's a different parts of different cultures and different ways. So I wanna make sure I'm speaking as, from my perspective, I don't wanna be trying to represent anybody else, but I do find that often it is seen as a younger person's thing, and I'm interested in people who choose to get pierced later in life. You don't often see a 70 year old going out and getting their nose pierced as opposed to a 17 year old.
Doree: Right, right.
Kate: So I don't know, I had that feeling. It reminded me of when I was younger and I would be like, Ooh, I'm going to wanna go get pierced. That kind of impulsive excitement feeling that I haven't felt about something like this in a while. When my first daughter got her ears pierced, she ca got in the car after camp and was like, take me now. And I was like, okay. So we went to just your usual clares, and I think I also got my ear pierced that day too, just to, as a sign of solidarity, I got a hole rep pierced. So I wanted to do that yesterday with my, or the other day with my other daughter. But they didn't have any availability, but she was also horrified at the prospect of me getting more piercings.
Doree: Oh, that's really funny.
Kate: I think just to bug, I don't think she has real qualms. I think it's more just what she thinks she's supposed to say to her parent. But I was like, motherfucker, I can get pierced. I was like, mom challenge,
Doree: You're a cool mom.
Kate: Yeah, I've still got it. I might have a tragus piercing someday.
Doree: Oh my Gosh.
Kate: Anyway, I don't, do you ever feel the urge to, I know you don't have your ears pierced, and I know you have kind of a complicated relationship with metal and jewelry and the way your body reacts to it, so I don't know if this is something that you still have think about, but I was curious if it's appealing to you at all.
Doree: My ears actually are pierced. I have two holes in each ear but I cannot wear earrings. They're essentially closed up because they got really infected and I had to go on antibiotics and it was just a whole thing. And I'm sure I could have found something that maybe didn't irritate my ear, but at that point it had been so traumatic.
Kate: That must have been really painful, Doree
Doree: And gross that I was like, forget it. And then in college I got my nose pierced and didn't have as extreme a reaction, but it definitely got infected and I was just like, this is just not worth it. This is also been partly why I've never gotten a tattoo because I'm like, my skin's just not going to like this. It's just not going to go well, which is so thats that I, I'm not going to get anything pierced because it's just not worth it to me to even go there. And it's not something that I seem to, my skin sensitivities do not seem to be something that I've outgrown. If anything, they've like, they maybe have gotten worse, so I'm just like, Nope. That's just a thing that I'm just not going to do.
Kate: You're just going to have to get bleach your hair and express yourself in other ways.
Doree: Totally. I'm just going to get a temporary tattoo sleeve.
Kate: Ooh, that temporary tattoo could be interesting. I will say, one thing I did, one thing that was fascinating with this piercer is he suggested my daughter not twist her earrings. Remember how we were taught to like twist.
Doree: oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. twist. Oh yeah, yeah. Yes.
Kate: He was like, no, your body knows what to do. I was like, oh, okay. Wow.
Doree: Oh, that's interesting.
Kate: Times are a changing, yeah. Yeah.
Doree: That's very interesting.
Kate: It was interesting. Anywho, I don't know, I would love to hear about people's experiences with body piercing. Talk to me. Tell us about it.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Are you doing it now? Are you tempted? Did you do it when you were younger? Do you feel like it's a young person's game? I don't know. I would just, I'd love to. How are you caring for your piercings? Just lay it on us.
Doree: Yeah, let us know. Alright, Kate, we got a text from a listener about Agatha Christie who said, it's worth watching the Drunk History episode that retells the story of Agatha Christie's disappearance. It's excellent. And there is a YouTube link here, which we will link to in the show notes. I never watched Drunk History. I heard it was very funny.
Kate: Oh My God. Drunk history is so funny. And I went and watched this episode and actually the person that tells the story is an acquaintance from my old UCB Comedy Day Days, Alison Rich. Oh, and it stars Kirsten Dunst and her husband Jesse Plemons. Kirsten Dunst is Agatha Christie. Oh yeah.
Doree: Oh, that's good.
Kate: Oh, drunk History is really funny if you've never watched it. And there was a lot in here that I did not know. I always learned something whilst watching Drunk History.
Doree: Well, I'm going to have to check this out.
Kate: Yes, definitely watch. Definitely watch this one.
Doree: Thank you listener.
Kate: Yeah. Thank you, listener. Here's another text we received. It's my Forever35 birthday today, and thanks to you all in your reframing. I've never been so excited to get to a milestone that our culture tells us we should be ashamed and fearful of. Well, welcome over to the Other side here. Happy birthday. So bonkers about what this listener wrote, not what they wrote, but just their observation, which is very accurate, is our culture is obsessed with you. They want, there's a cultural ideal of getting as old as you possibly can while never looking like you're aging. It's such a conundrum that we are, Because It's not that culturally age, or culturally we don't wanna get older. We do. It's just that we want our body to never change. Not we, I mean like a royal we, right? Like
Doree: Yes, yes, yes. Society
Kate: And society's "We". Just that. I mean, I know we all know that, but I was just thinking about this of they love it when you're 35, as long as you have the skin of a 15 year old.
Doree: Right.
Kate: Anyway, basically you can't win. And Welcome, welcome. We're happy to have you here. No shame, no fear.
Doree: All right, Kate, let's take a little breaky break.
Kate: Okey dokey. Alright,
Doree: Kate, we have returned.
Kate: Hello,
Doree: And we have an email Hi Kat and Dor. I'm in my early thirties and have just started dating. It just wasn't something that was talked about in my household. My parents started to suggest dating once my sister and I got to college. I also have had alopecia since I was a child, so that was always part of my insecurity. I wear a wig and have only told close friends with that. Plus inexperience with dating, I've always felt like a late bloomer. This year had a lot of wins for me. First I joined N A A F, which is the National Alopecia Areata Foundation, and a local support group. Then I started seeing a therapist who is amazing. After working with her, I decided to join Hinge and start dating. I've met a few guys so far, but they've kind of fizzled out. The guy I started seeing recently is really sweet and incredibly honest. We've been on two dates so far. He's also super observant and considerate of my social interactions and space needs. I'm an introvert, basically. He's expressed romantic interest and I really like him too. But when exactly do we make things official?
Kate: Whenever you want.
Doree: This is a real, it depends kind of situation.
Kate: And I guess also official kind of means different things to different people. I feel like you Gen Zers, you're doing things totally differently than we did 20, 30 years ago. So I really think, one, I just think listener, it sounds like one, you're doing so many great things to take care of yourself. I'm glad you're seeing this therapist nailing it. You're just doing it. It sounds like this person that you've met is communicative and thoughtful and would be open to a conversation, especially since he has expressed romantic interest. I think you can open up the conversation with them.
Doree: Yeah, and I mean, think, one thing that I would say is I think it's worth having a conversation before if and when you decide to have sex with this person to find out are they having sex with anyone else? What is their status with STIs? I think it's good to just have that conversation and then you can use that data as you wish. If they tell you, yes, I'm sleeping with other people, and that's not, that's something you're comfortable with, then that kind of leads to other conversations. So I don't know. That's kind of my feeling on it.
Kate: I also love that you have the resource of your therapist, and I think that you could, my suggestion would be to understand what your expectations are before you get into the conversation with this person. And I feel like therapy can be a great place to figure out, what does being in a relationship look like to me? What does being official with this person look like to me? What are my expectations? What am I willing to give? I just think knowing that about yourself is, or just learning that about yourself because you've just started dating and this relationship, every relationship is, you learn about yourself in relationships and you learn about yourself, period. So, I think just being, observe, observing yourself and your needs, and also being gentle with yourself. If this might be the first person that you've had a romantic relationship with it's go going to be a learning experience too. Every relationship is whether you've been dating for 50 years or you are going on your first date ever. I mean, it really is always about learning and gaining perspective. I think
Doree: That's a really good way of putting it, Kate,
Kate: And have fun. Enjoy your time getting to know this person.
Doree: Very good advice.
Kate: I would love to hear more advice for the newly dating people who are starting dating and when do you make things official? It is such an interesting, I haven't had to do this in so long, so I don't really know how it works, but what do you say are, are we official now? Are we not dating other people? Or do maybe you are in a non-monogamous relationship, so being official looks like something different. We are, I don't know. There's so many layers of the conversations to be had.
Doree: Have you deleted your profile from dating apps?
Kate: Yes. Yeah. Do we wanna do that? Maybe we don't.
Doree: Yeah, there's a lot of levels.
Kate: So many things like official doesn't mean the same thing for every person.
Doree: Yes, Totally.
Kate: What does official mean to you? For me, it means that you have to save certain TV shows that are just for us.
Doree: Oh, interesting.
Kate: I like having a TV show with my partner. Okay.
Doree: Okay. Okay.
Kate: All right. Here's another email we received. Hi, Kate and Doree. My in-laws and I have very different lifestyles, habits and gifting styles. They accumulate and keep lots of stuff. My husband has complained about how many times single-handedly had to clean out their garage because it's always full. I'm not going to say they're hoarders, but they're sentimental and love to keep everything. Anyway, now that we have kids, they love to give them lots and lots of stuff at Christmas. They each get their own stocking and it's full of ind, individually wrapped toys and trinkets. Unfortunately, these items are also super cheap and typically break after one use or soon after. It's the same for Easter baskets or even just a random visit, my husband says to just let it go because it means so much to his parents. I totally get that. And again, I don't wanna be a jerk in all this. However, I get frustrated because then we have to clean up the junk and the packaging or throw out the stuff that breaks or explain to my kid why this isn't working anymore. I'd much prefer it if they can use the money for something longer lasting or contribute to their college fund or check in with us about what they actually need. I'm not sure the best way to approach this or do I just internally scream and leave it alone.
Doree: Kate, thoughts
Kate: Doree. Are we both punting this to the other?
Doree: You go first. I have thoughts, but you go first
Kate: Listener. I think this might be the time when you internally scream. I think you can have the conversation and for sure, and I support all your reasons and I support your intentions and I totally get where you're coming from. But I'm not sure that they're going to change. And it might be something that becomes something you have to, one of those things you have to accept, even though it do, it's not working for you. And I also think, and this, I'm going to guess what Doree's going to say, which is, if this is a conversation you're going to have at, I think your husband's got a husband's parents, right? You gotta be on the same team as this, because this feels to me like he's saying, let it go. And if you wanna have this conversation with them, it has to come from both of you because you have to be a team on this as you do with your partner in all things. But it's going to be even more frustrating if you say this and he's, and he doesn't care. And then it's going to be kind of mixed signals for his parents. And so it's gotta be a united front team decision how you're going to handle it. And I think you make a team decision the other way of, we're just going to deal with it and move on. Doree?
Doree: Kate. That was pretty much a hundred percent what I was going to say.
Kate: Oh My God. Ok. Tell me.
Doree: I was going to say, have one conversation with them about it and if nothing changes you let it go. This, to me, as annoying as this is, and I fully get it, this to me does not seem like a hill to die on or a battle to wage with in-laws or parents for that matter. To me. This sounds like the way you describe this individually wrapped trinkets. I see someone going to a lot of care and trouble to, I hear you when these, you say these things sound like junk, but they're individually wrapped. That actually takes a lot of time and thought. And I see someone who, this is their love language. They clearly have a lot of attachment to things. You describe them as essentially hoarders and this is who they are. And I feel like, yes, you could have that conversation with them and it sounds like you really want to, I don't think they're going to change, and I think it would probably actually hurt them to change cause they don't see expression of love in the same way, and this is me just extrapolating, but my suspicion is that they would bristle at the thought of just putting money in your kids' college funds for Christmas, to them. I think that doesn't feel like a gift. That doesn't feel special. They want the spectacle of the kids unwrapping the stuff on Christmas morning that is important to them. And honestly, they're not going to be around forever. I think you just honor that and you deal with the junk and you let it go and you move on. I personally would probably not even have the conversation, but I feel like if you feel called to do that, do it. But just don't go into it with expectations. And look, I'm happy to be proven completely wrong. Maybe you have this conversation and they're like, oh my gosh, we just never thought about that. We're happy to ask you what your kids need. I'm like in that case. Great. So yeah,
Kate: I totally agree with you. Totally. Well done, Doree.
Doree: Thanks. I love being agreed with
Kate: Thats why, I do agree with you. So that's why we work well together. Alright, Doree, let's take another break and we'll come back in here from a couple more folks.
Doree: Okie dokey. Okay, we are back. We got a response to I can't remember if it was a call or an email to a listener who communicated with us about friends that they had kind of lost touch with and they didn't really know how to resurrect the friendship, I guess. Is that an accurate depiction of what that message was?
Kate: Yes, I think that is exactly right. How do I, okay, I, I'm embarrassed, but how do I rekindle these friendships?
Doree: Yes. Okay, so we got some advice from a listener here. One re feeling weird slash bad about now staying in touch or do they mean not staying in touch here? I think that's, they may not in touch. Yeah. I'm going to take that again. One feeling weird slash bad about not staying in touch. Communication is a two-way street. If you haven't kept in touch neither of your friends and nobody is to blame. It happens. Two that said, it's normal to feel weird about reaching out, break the ice. Anyways, a Hey, I miss you. Wanna catch up soon? Text is usually well received, plus doing some of the work to plan. I'm around Sunday morning if you're free for a call, this works. But I also strongly recommend building on the bond and connection that's already there. Did you just hear a song on the radio that you used to scream, sing together in your dorm in college?
Text them and reminisce. Send a recipe that you made that you think they'd enjoy. Or a meme that reminds you of an inside joke you have. These are small, low stakes things that can maintain the connection and get rid of the, it's been so long. Will it be weird if I reach out feeling. Three Another option is to accept the friendships for what they are. It is okay if you have friends that you don't text or call frequently, but enjoy spending time with. When you manage to get together, the listener expressed worry. They might not have anything to talk about over the phone. You might not be wrong about that. Depending on the friendship. Know your friends and what communication works for them. I have long distance friends. I text constantly, but never call. I have one friend who I talk to on the phone for hours. We schedule times. We're both on walks to catch up. Other friends, I pretty much never text or call and it's like, no time has passed when I see them. Figure out your communication style with different friends and find what works. And I repeat if it's not natural to call slash text frequently, that is okay, love to this listener. It's hard to make new friends and to keep up old ones from afar.
Kate: I think this is such great advice.
Doree: I think this is really good advice. And it's like, it's made me think about a lot of things about my friendship style.
Kate: Go on, Doree,
Doree: And the relationship I have with friends, older friends versus newer friends. And it's been an interesting internal journey for me. And I wonder if that is I, that is partly what this listener is also going through, because I think in the past I had an avoidant attachment style. So here is a definition of avoidant attachment style. Avoidant attachment types are extremely independent, self directed, and often uncomfortable with intimacy. They're commitment phobes and experts at rationalizing their way out of any intimate situation. They regularly complain about feeling crowded or suffocated when people try to get close to them. So this was very me I think for a long time. And I would often describe friends as clingy or needy, and I was just avoidant, I think, and I'm not like that, but I think it was a protect self-defense protection mechanism.
Kate: Sure. Now wait, did you do some sort of attachment style quiz?
Doree: No.
Kate: Are we all doing this now? Are we all thinking about adult attachment styles the same way we think about love languages?
Doree: Maybe? I think so. There was a big New York Times article that was like, everyone's talking about attachment styles.
Kate: Yeah. I feel like that's why this is in my brain. Yes.
Doree: Yeah. I haven't actually read an actual book about it. I've just done my own thinking on it and just thinking about just examining my relationships over the years and how I'm so much more secure and confident in myself now. And I think have, my friendships are different now. That's, sorry, this got really deep.
Kate: I love it. I think that's really interesting. I'm totally open to that. I mean, the more we grow and experience personal growth as a human, of course we're going to change how we are as a friend
Doree: Right.
Kate: Or Lose personal growth. I mean, go the opposite direction.
Doree: Yes. And it's interesting. I have some friends from college or just young adulthood, let's say, and I've noticed that the way we interact with each other and our relationship feels the same in a lot of ways as it did 20 years ago, which worked for me then because I also didn't really wanna get too close to anyone, but doesn't really work for me now. And I feel like I need more from certain friendships than perhaps they're able to give me because I also want to give more now.
Kate: That's lovely.
Doree: Thank you, Kate. So that's why I text you all the time.
Kate: I mean, I'm not enough, in my opinion, bring on more texts. I feel like sometimes
Doree: I'm recovering, I'm a recovering avoidant, so bear with me
Kate: Theres times where I'm like, I'm just waiting for Doree to wake up because I wanna talk to her so bad some, but I have real dog energy. I have to pull back a little bit.
Doree: And 20 years ago I would've been like oh ah, and ghosted you, which is shitty.
Kate: 25 years ago I, I was really hanging out at Phish shows and you probably would've been like
Doree: We would not have been friends 25 years ago. that definitely wouldnt happen.
Kate: No, you were into Liz Fair. I would've been like, oh no. Too emo for me, as my kids would say.
Doree: Yeah, I was a real Emily the strange.
Kate: Yeah, and I was.
Doree: Who is pretty avoidant. I mean, she doesn't want anyone to get close to her.
Kate: Fascinating. Well, I am very, I mean, need to know.
Doree: I mean, Wednesday Adams, hello.
Kate: God, that show is so good. Not to change the subject. A Wednesday is very avoidant. Yes. I'm a real, you know what? I am a real Enid. I think I have Enid. I think I might have some sort of Enid energy, but like,
Doree: Oh, Interesting.
Kate: But with Wednesday undertones, cuz I tend to push people away and get, I know I'm a fucking mess. Get into me some other time.
Doree: Anyway, so the original email and then this. I've just kind of been thinking about these things lately. So anyway. here we are,
Kate: Well, thank you for digging so deep into your own growth. I appreciate the vulnerability.
Doree: Isn't that what we're here for?
Kate: It turns out it is. Sometimes I chuckle to myself because we like to talk about serums. What we really like to talk about is the psyche of the human mind. I mean, woo, we're getting into it.
Doree: Totally.
Kate: Well look, oh, what I love doing this podcast. Great to hear from you and our listeners on all these things.
Doree: Oh, I mean, likewise. All right
Kate: Alright Everybody. Bye.
Doree: Bye.