Episode 313: Makeup Tips and Tricks with Rachel Goodwin
Doree and Elise discuss the serums of the summer before inviting celebrity makeup artist Rachel Goodwin to chat about the best eyeshadow palettes and concealer out there right now, the surprising makeup lessons she learned from a mortician, the product every person over 40 should have in their bag, and the joy and beauty of the ritual surrounding doing our makeup and connecting with ourselves.
Mentioned in this Episode
Mentioned in this Episode
PDRN
Burt's bees tinted lip balm in dahlia
Connect with Rachel
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Transcript
Doree: Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise: And I'm Elise Hugh. And we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums. And Doree, I just got some cool new serums that I'm excited to talk to you about
Doree: Really, because I also got a cool new serum.
Elise: Amazing. You get, I have saved this. I have not even told you about this offline. Oh my
Doree: Gosh, I'm so excited.
Elise: Well, I kind of teased it actually. I did tease it to you and texted you a little video because friends of mine just got back from Korea and they muled the hot new K Beauty
Doree: Serum spec. Yes, yes.
Elise: So that's what I wanted to talk to you about.
Doree: Let's hear it.
Elise: So a few years ago when I was still researching my book Flawless, which traces kind of the global rise of Korean beauty and why it's five to 10 years ahead of the rest of the world, I was hearing in Seoul all about Rejuan. Rejuan is an injectable that everybody was using instead of Botox and other neurotoxins. Because Rejuan has something like salmon, DNA inside of it, and I don't know where they got this extract or how they got it out of salmon, but it's supposed to be far more effective as an ingredient than other ingredients. And so everybody was getting rejuan. I did not try it because the doctor who I was interviewing said that it was super painful, even as she used it on herself, she was like, I do my Rejuan injections every three months or so. And also she looked sort of embalmed. So I was like, I dunno if you're the best, oh my God, you're the best for run billboard. And so I ended up not trying it mainly because of the pain. I was like, I'm not willing. I'm not to subscribe to the whole beauty as pain. It's
Doree: Reasonable.
Elise: But then this year there were some estheticians and med spa owners who showed up at some book events that I was doing and they're like, oh yeah, we're doing Reju now at our Beverly Hills spas or at our Beverly Hills clinics. And so Rejuan is now happening here several years later,
Doree: But
Elise: What's really been lasting is this salmon DNA stuff. And so now the salmon DNA or salmon extract is available in just regular serums that you can put on your skin topically and not inject into your muscles or into your tissue. And so I had a couple Korean friends send some of the hot new salmon extract serums my way via a mule via my friend Steve who was visiting, and he brought them back for me. And it's this PRN brand, which is really hot right now. It's the brand, the Serum of the summer in Seoul, South Korea. And so I'm trying it up. It feels very moisturizing, but who knows, you have to try these things out for three months, right?
Doree: That's the thing. Yeah.
Elise: What about you?
Doree: Did we see something about Kim Kardashian using salmon, salmon
Elise: And extract? Yes. So it's reached the Kardashians. It's reached the Kardashians started in soul. It's reached the
Doree: Kardashians. Okay. So the thing that I have been trying is from a brand called Mother Science, and it is their molecular hero serum, which they describe as a breakthrough serum for dark spots and sun damage and even skin tone. And an aesthetician that I know and really suggested this. She said she has clients who've been using it and she's basically, I don't think, there's not a ton of products that I think really work, but she was like, I think this really works and you can use it. I was telling her that I haven't been using Tretinoin because I've been in the sun so much. And she was like, this is safe to use even if you are going in the sun. And I was like, I'm listening. And then I went on the website to check it out and I too di alluded on over to their about section and I found out that the brand was started by the founding guitarist of the Rock band Incubus and his wife, who is a renowned violinist. What dude, I don't
Elise: Know, and what expertise do these two people have in skincare?
Doree: So he apparently studied, he was a science major, doesn't say what kind of science major at Harvard. And his wife majored in biology. And then this is like the classic skincare line story. When Anne Marie developed a harmless skin condition while on tour in 2016 that led to lightened patches of skin on her back, she got very curious, could whatever cause them be used to intentionally reduce the look of dark spots on the face. The couple assembled a team of leading scientists in over six years developed and harnessed the power of Malsin, a naturally occurring molecule found on skin into a brand new revolutionary serum. So here
Elise: We are. What's the price point?
Doree: It is $89. I got it for, they were having a sale, it seems like they have sales quite frequently. I got it for I think 20% off. So it's inexpensive but not insane serum. I mean, you see some of these serums and they're like $400 and you're like, what? So it seems like it's in line with a drunk elephant price point wise, maybe a little less than a SkinCeuticals if you'll,
Elise: So you'll have to report back and let us know if you keep using this stuff.
Doree: I will be reporting back. Yeah. So SkinCeutical CE Ferulic, which is their iconic item, is $182 for a small bottle. So this is not at that level, but it's not like a drugstore product either. And I don't know where you can buy it other than their website. I don't know if it's sold in stores. So anyway, yes, I will report back and I would like you to report back as well.
Elise: Yeah, I should clarify that PDRN is the name of the salmon DNA, so it's not a brand name. PDRN is just in all of these products from various brand names. Got it. Does that make sense?
Doree: Yes.
Elise: If you were to Google PDRN, it's going to show up various salmon, DNA serums that are available on the market. Got it. It is the hot ingredient, I
Doree: Should say. The hot ingredient. Alright.
Elise: Instead of the brand.
Doree: We love that. Well, we didn't really talk about skincare too much with our guests today, but we did talk a lot about makeup.
Elise: Yeah, we sure did. And I am so excited to introduce Rachel Goodwin, who y'all might already follow on Instagram because she is a leading fashion and celebrity makeup artist and she's really one of the most well-known makeup artists out there right now. She did her early training at the San Francisco Opera House, which she talked to us a little bit about.
Doree: So cool.
Elise: And then started working on runway backstage in New York City and Paris and now lives in Los Angeles. And she has a really impressive and diverse vision. She's a decades long artist ambassador for Chanel Beauty, director of pro artistry at nars, and a content creator for other brands around the world. We were so excited to talk to her and Doree, not only did we take our questions from our listeners straight to Rachel, more questions came in after we recorded, which then led us to an idea.
Doree: We had an idea
Elise: And the idea was to maybe have Rachel on more than just this one time.
Doree: It's true.
Elise: So we're also very excited to announce that. Following today's episode featuring Rachel Goodwin, we'll be featuring Rachel several times a year, like maybe three or four times a year, she is going to have a recurring mini app or listener engagement session in which you will be able to ask your questions. You can call text, leave a voicemail for us, email with your questions for Rachel, and we're going to save them up and ask her during the recurring Rachel episodes.
Doree: I can't wait for this. We got such good questions. So I'm excited for her to be answering more.
Elise: Yeah, me too.
Doree: Before we get to Rachel though, I do just want to remind everyone that on our website Forever35 podcast.com, we have links there to everything we mentioned on the show. We're also on Instagram at Forever35 podcast. You can join our Patreon at patreon.com/forever. Three five lots going on over there. We have a newsletter at Forever35 podcast. Do com slash newsletter and please call or text us at five nine one zero three nine zero or email us at Forever five Podcast at gmail com.
Elise: And just real quick, a reminder that we are doing our first Doree and Elise live taping in Los Angeles.
Doree: So excited about this.
Elise: Yeah, it's coming up soon. It's August 4th. It's a Sunday afternoon on the west side over on my side of town,
Doree: Elise's side of town. Come on over to Elisa's side of town,
Elise: Culver City. It's also a pretty major, major city. Perhaps you've heard of it. No. Culver City. There is an independent bookstore that I love called Village Well, which is hosting this event featuring Sable Yang. She is a New York based beauty editor. She was a longtime beauty editor at Allure and has just come out with Die Hot with a vengeance, a collection of essays about beauty culture in general, so the politics of it, but also just her experiences dying, her hair bleach blonde or bleaching her hair blonde as an Asian woman and the effects of that not only physically but also socially and how people saw her. That was a really great essay. And then she just takes on the difference between beauty and vanity and all these things. And Doree and I will be in conversation with her
Doree: And then the recording will air as an episode. But it would be very cool to see some of you there in person. Tickets are free. We are asking that people RSVP. So there is a link in the show notes to do that. It'll also be on our website. We'll also be promoting it on Instagram. I think there's also a link in our Instagram bio, so RVP, and we'll see you there. And here is Rachel.
Elise: Rachel Goodwin. We're so excited to have you on the show.
Rachel: Thank you ladies. I'm so excited to be here.
Doree: So Rachel, we usually start off by asking our guests about a self-care practice that they have. Is there something you are currently doing now that you would consider self-care?
Rachel: I feel like my favorite self-care thing that I do on a regular basis is dancing. I go to dance class at least if I can twice a week. That is my sort of mental health practice. I really need to move my body. And I find that if I don't, I get really cranky and I'm not great at anything if I'm not getting out of my head and just moving around. And so it's really a community thing as well. I've found that I've really found a great community of women that also have the same exact, they need to move their body too. And so I found this great group and so I think I get two things out of it. I think I get a connection with other women and I get to move around and forget about my worries for an hour.
Doree: What kind of dance do you do and where do you do it?
Rachel: I have an incredible, incredible hip hop teacher named Gus that is, I don't know what I would do without him. I really don't. He is so incredible. He is given me, I've done different types of dance throughout my life. I've done all kinds of different things. Even if it's just moving around, it could be like a Tracy Anderson, any kind of moving thing. But I think with him it's like choreography. And we do a lot, we do a routine where it's all through the week. If I get to go all three times, I go and on Sunday starting, and then by Thursday I know the routine and I've got, it just helps me with my confidence. It helps me feel like I'm using my brain too and my body in a new way. And yeah, it's awesome. The music, everything.
Elise: It's a real theme I think when it comes to our conversations with guests about self-care, that self-care involves community or caring for other people and how other people can care for us. And so I really hear that with dance too. And did you grow up dancing as well?
Rachel: Not at all. Not even a little bit really. I mean, my mom was very much, she loved to dance, but not formally. She was a disco queen. Oh, wow. So I saw a lot of dancing going on, but never, I was actually in a dance rou, a Middle Eastern dance troupe when I was growing up. And for eight years I did a belly dance. So you did in San Francisco. Wait a second.
Wow. Which is so random. I know. But I had a family friend who was a very famous belly dancer in San Francisco, and she started a troop back in the nineties, and I was in it for many years. I used to be able to do all kinds of things I can't do now, like balance a sword on my head. I had just with snakes, we performed with giant snakes and crazy stuff that I can't believe. But yes, it was incredible. It was, again, very, very connecting to community. We had such a beautiful community of women who all were just so incredibly dear to me. And we danced, we performed at museums, at festivals and created such a, I don't know, I miss that a lot. So I think this new iteration is similar in some ways, has nothing to do with makeup.
Elise: We have so many listener questions about makeup for you. But before we get to that, we wanted to talk a little bit about you. And so maybe just give us the quick backstory, how you came to do what you're doing now.
Rachel: Gosh, I mean, it's been 30 years that I've been doing this professionally. I have had many iterations of my career. I've done every facet of beauty. I feel like I've touched upon at some point from the mortuary to the opera house, to backstage at fashion shows, to film and television to the red carpet at the Academy Awards. I mean, I've kind of done every aspect of beauty. I know I'm more famous now these days. I live in Los Angeles and I'm very much in the Hollywood sphere. But I have done it all. And I'm so grateful for all because it all informs, it all comes back I think, in the end. But everything that I do, there's layers of other pieces of my skillset. But I think I started out as a very young girl who really saw makeup as a way out of my circumstances.
I think I saw beauty as an escape, and I saw it as a tool to help me leverage my pain. And I became a goth. I became a punk. I became a crazy wild club kid. I, I did sort of try on a lot of personas growing up. And I think watching my mother, who was a teen mom, be so fabulous and fashionable. I saw it as a way of escaping kind of a mundane world. And I also grew up in the MTV era, so music videos and supermodels and all that fun stuff. I was like, I want that.
Doree: How did you realize it was something you were good at? Not just something you liked, but something you were actually good at?
Rachel: I'm writing about this right now, so this is a really interesting topic actually in the throws of writing a book about it. But Oh, cool. So I've been thinking about this question a lot. I think I was adopted at 12 into a family who had a makeup artist as my foster dad's sister was a makeup artist up for movies. And I heard the words the first time ever. And I thought, oh my God, that's a thing. Because I'd already been immersed in this. I had been drawing faces, I'd been drawing my mom's friends and movie stars, and I was always drawing and painting women's faces. And I got a share head. It was called the Share Makeup Center given to me when I was five.
Elise: I wish this still existed.
Rachel: Me too. I mean that thing, she was my unofficial first client was Cher. So I was doing that. I was doing anything that involved makeup and beauty, I was just completely drawn to. And then when I was adopted and I heard those words, I heard that that was a real profession. Something in me just clicked. And I was doing makeup on everyone. I was always asked to either draw their portrait or put makeup on them. And so I started to get a lot, my first real sense of self-esteem came from when people wanted me to put makeup on them, create a movie. My poor friends, God, I destroyed a lot of eyebrows, but I would make them into Greta Garbo or you know what I mean, do all these really elaborate things. And they left it, we would take terrible photos and I really started to be known for that.
And I think that was where I got my first sense of self. So it started off very, very, very young is my point. And then I think that ultimately when I graduated from high school, I called her and said I was in San Francisco, I was raised a lot of my life up in the Bay Area, so there was really no makeup industry per se. There was nothing that I saw going like, oh, this makes sense for me to do. But she said she had also come from the Bay Area and she said, well, if you want to learn the fundamentals, you need to go to the Opera house and learn from this woman who was at the time the head of the makeup department of the San Francisco Memorial Opera House. So
I just was like, okay, that's what I have to do. So I went to her and I started taking lessons and I started working on backstage and just apprenticing. And that was sort of how it was done when I was coming up because makeup artistry was not a very wellknown career choice. It was a very obscure career choice, to be honest. There was a couple of hundred people really doing it in a professional scope and less than a thousand for sure. And so to come into something like that was sort of like, I feel like I won the lottery. It was very strange, but I was so hyper-focused and just absolutely not going to stop. And I went to that, I worked with her, and then I started working any place that would let me put makeup on anyone. I was like, me volunteer, let me do it.
Elise: Is that how you wound up at the mortuary?
Rachel: Yeah, basically my friend at my friend who was at San Francisco State at the time, she called me on a payphone that long ago, pre-internet. She called and said, there's a note on the bulletin that says someone's looking for a makeup artist for an independent film, but they don't have any money, but they can buy you a makeup kit. And I was like, sign me up. Didn't know what it was about. Had no clue. Get on the phone with this guy. And he's like, well, this is my first film and I don't have any money, but I'll give you a budget for makeup kit. And so I said yes without even knowing what it was about. Next thing I know, I'm like, it's called till Death to us part, and it's like takes place in a mortuary and I'm going to have to. So I had to study with a mortician to learn how to make people look dead, which was absolutely, I was like, I'm never being involved. No matter what happens. Do not try to embalm me. I told my boyfriend at the time, it was now my husband. I was like, whatever. No matter what happens, no embalming.
Elise: I am not getting embalmed. No. Got it. Got it.
Rachel: So that was life lesson, but I learned a lot and I learned that I did not want to do films mostly.
Doree: Okay.
Rachel: Yeah. Besides learning how to embalm someone.
Doree: Okay. Let's take a break and we will be right back.
Elise: We're so excited, Rachel, because we have so many listener questions.
Doree: Yay. We
Elise: Put a call out to our listeners for what they wanted to know about makeup or skincare, and there are many. So are you ready for
Rachel: These? I am so ready. I love this kind of thing.
Elise: Okay, first question, what are your Go-to eyeshadow brands? Our listener is looking to spice up her collection.
Rachel: So couple that I'm really, really loving. I mean forever, literally, makeup Forever are some of my, if I'm talking about Lux Pigment, gorgeous, creating your own palette makeup forever. A hundred percent. I think the Makeup by Mario palettes are gorgeous. They have a lot of variety. They're very user-friendly and they're fun to look at. And I think also Lisa Eldridge has these beautiful, I think there's six in each one, and I'm just a fan of her artistry and on everything that she does. Everything has a beautiful vintage type feel, her packaging, and it's just fun to look out on your dresser. It's fun to pull out of your bag. And there's beautiful combinations. My favorite is Cinnabar, which is warm. There's some shimmers or some deep tones. Those are really fun. The other thing I love are liquid shadows. And I know that they're a little bit less common to talk about because most people are used to using powders.
But I think that most, there's these beautiful Armani makes them about face makes them, you can get them at Target if you don't want to spend the Armani money, but they're in these little tubes. And what I love about them is I hear from women a lot that make eyeshadows, they don't last as long or they smudge. And those formulas tend to be waterproof. They're a little trickier. You have to work pretty quickly with them once they dry, but they're on, they don't move. And you can actually put powders on top of them and your makeup's not going anywhere. Okay. Yeah.
Doree: Great. Okay, next question. Is there a primer or setting product that works well on combo slash dry skin types?
Rachel: I really love, I think it's be beautiful. There's a few, I mean, there's so many products right now that I'm loving for this. Janessa Myrick has this blurring powder balm comes in every shade imaginable, and so there's something for every single type of skin. But what I love about it is it's sort of refining, it refines the texture and it creates a barrier, but it doesn't look heavy or feel heavy. It works perfectly for, I use it during the summer a lot. I don't like to use powder per se, on even for most of my clients. I don't use a lot of powder on them just because there's a flattening effect that it gives that I'm not usually a fan of. I mean, I can be strategic at times if needed, but I love the blurring poem and I think that that stuff is like I'm never without it. Also, nano Blur is a great brand for kind of putting around and then a great for combo skin, like you were saying, you can put makeup on top of it and it can also go on top of your makeup just to kind of keep it. Yeah,
Elise: Nano blur. We're going to have links to everything. Rachel mentions everybody.
Doree: Yes.
Elise: These are coming quick, we realize. Okay, next question. Concealer versus color corrector for stubborn under eye dark circles. Let's discuss.
Rachel: I think there's a time and a place for color corrector. I mean, I think it can be a little bit abused on TikTok just because it's such a fun conversation to have. It's visually really cool. I think color theory, we all use a little color theory in our lives, no doubt. And it's fascinating, but I think as a trope, it can add another layer to your makeup. I don't think we want more stuff on our faces than we need. When you're talking about hiding bruising. If you've had injection points that are bruised or if you have purple undereye circles, sure, absolutely. Yellow will cancel out purple. Knowing that color theory stuff is great. Also with deeper tones, I've seen on Instagram using more of an orange to get the darker circles that are on deeper skin tones can be effective as well. I just, MLS is more girl, so I tend to do it all in one product if I can
Elise: With a good concealer.
Rachel: It's just I lean more toward a great concealer than I do doing a bunch of different layers unless I'm really doing heavy lifting.
Elise: And then do you have a favorite concealer you want to share?
Rachel: I think most women, I do love the Clay Depo. I'm obsessed with the Clay Depoe concealer, but I'm really, really, right now my favorite is Ilya. Ilia has a stick that is epic. I am living for it right now, and that you can use as a concealer and just all around, it's just such a great product. So I'm fanning over that one right now.
Elise: I heard about that from my sixth grader.
Rachel: Oh, wow. Yeah. Know how it's like a multi-use. Listen, the first time I tried it I was like sold. So from six to 50, there we go.
Doree: Okay, we got a couple of questions specifically about hooded eyes and how to navigate eyeshadow. So the first question was very general. How do you use eyeshadow and liner for hooded eyes? And then the second question, the related question is, is it a fool's errand to attempt a cat's eye with hooded eyes slash lids? What are some good eye makeup options as the sag slash droop continues?
Rachel: I love the fool's errand. Yeah, I mean listen folded. I mean, I find them beautiful. I find folded eyelids beautiful. I mean, I have clients that have very, very strong folded eyelids. I've got others who have giant space. I don't know, I love all shapes of eyes. I find them to be not just challenging, but just sort of like, I love unique beauty. I love a face that's unique and different and ever, I don't like templates for beauty. So for me, the individuality lies whether or not someone's, like when you look at someone like Lauren Baca, for instance, who was famously had these folded eyelids are just like no lid whatsoever. Did it stop her from wearing liquid liner? No. Do we associate her with glamor? Yes. I just feel like you embrace what your face has to offer and you can play with trends, you can play with anything as long as you own it and make it yours and don't feel like you have to fit some sort of like, oh, if it doesn't look like this, it's not perfect. I like seeing how trends play out on different eye shapes. And so I would say it's not a fool's errand. It is absolutely imperative that you play around. And I think just trying to remember that yes, there are rules and everybody loves rules when it comes to makeup. They want to hear somebody prescribe to them what the rules are. But I would say I would challenge you to enjoy yourself instead,
Elise: Even while we're enjoying ourselves. Is there, I just have to push back because what I feel like a lot of us make up neophytes could use is just a general how to. So I think the first part of the question, if we could just rewind to that. How does one use eyeshadow and liner? If you have hooded eyes, do you have an approach?
Rachel: I would say if you really want to be more about technique, if you want to get into the technique aspect, I would say using waterproof formulas would be really beneficial because if you tend to have eyelids that touch, then waterproof formulas of liner can be really, really, really helpful because you're going to have the imprint no matter what you do, if you use anything else, I would say that I would definitely keep maybe the line thinner per se, so that it's not necessarily going to be, but I've also seen women with folded eyelids do really chunky, thick lines and kind of take up all that space. And it looks very cool stylistically. So again, I hate to say there's only one way to do it, but if you're trying to do just a delicate one, even what you have on Elise, it's beautiful. It's very subtle, but I can see you have a tiny little line, but it's not necessarily touching. It's like it's
Elise: Very, oh, it's just eyeshadow.
Rachel: Oh yeah, and it looks great. So I think that thin sort of soft, then that gives as much, that opens up the space as much as possible. But then if you want to give it a more edgy look, just cover the whole lid, even though it may not always be seen, it's going to give off a little bit more of a high fashion kind edgier look. So it depends on your personal style too, I think.
Doree: Okay. Rex, for SPF setting spray or other method for SPF reapplication that doesn't disrupt makeup but also actually protects?
Rachel: Yeah, I mean this SPF thing is so hard because it adds another layer to your makeup.
Doree: Yeah, totally.
Rachel: And I know a lot of women, they don't want to use, they don't like multi-use products for this because they think they're not as effective either. But in the summer, our makeup just tends to slide off, and
So it's the worst time because you need the sunscreen, but the heat makes it kind of impossible to keep makeup on. So I tend to go for products that are multi-use in the hot months. So I love St. Jane is one of, it's a beautiful brand of skincare, but she makes this blurring SBF base that I like. I'm addicted to that. I use it on myself. I use it on my clients. It smells the faintest bit of jasmine. It is just so pretty and it also blurs, so it has this skin perfecting sort of element without being foundation. So I find that I'll use that and then they'll use the IA stick for anything that's kind of trying to come through. And then you've kind of got a formula for your skin just looks great. It's protected, it's hydrated, and it's looking good at the same time. Okay.
Elise: I have one question from the Discord. It's a little bit longer, and I think all of us kind of want to know this. So as someone who recently turned 40, I noticed that the way I do my makeup doesn't look as flattering as it used to. What products and application techniques would you recommend as our faces change through age? In that same vein, the listener wants to know what is even popular now. There's an oversaturation of makeup influencers, many of whom are focused on younger adults and teens. So finding a place to get started can be overwhelming. I feel this,
Rachel: I feel this. I know as a 51-year-old woman, I hear you. I think that we change, yes. And our faces change absolutely. But I think that the women that I know, most women I know at my age or even in the over 40, tend to feel a sense of they have maybe found their signature something already. And I think that because trends are so much fun to look at, we can get caught up in that and feel like we need to try everything. I think that the beauty of getting older is knowing yourself better and knowing for me, I know that a red lip is in my arsenal because I feel a certain way when I pull out my red lip, it's like I'm coming out. I feel like it gives me a sense of if I'm on my way to a party, say I'm going from work to a cocktail or something after work, and I'm like, I need to immediately make myself feel ready for that, I'll put on a lipstick.
So I think it's about finding something that's like a signature, whether it's a lip color, an eye color, it could be an eyeliner, it could be whatever. Maybe it's your bold mascara. I don't know. I think it's about leaning into a signature aspect and then just having that in your repertoire to pull from when needed. I think that getting older means you don't have to be as trendy if you don't want to be. And that's a freedom that we have. And I also think what a freedom. Yeah, I know. And I also think that there's a level of acceptance of our faces that they are beautiful and that you can do things to boost if you want to. I hate saying, look younger, I don't want to look younger. I just want to look the best I can look right now. I want to look like me, but the best version of me.
So I like to go for products that make me feel connected to myself. So I like to go for products that either feel a little bit luxurious or lift my spirits. And blush is always your friend. I would say everybody needs a blush. They love. And for me as I'm getting older, cream blushes I think are the best because they give a glow, they give a little radiance, and they're really low lift as far as technique. So we're busy. We've got a lot going on. Cream blush is the best thing you could do for your life as you get older.
Doree: Rachel, a hot topic on this podcast that predates Elise coming on the show was the five minute makeup routine. Everyone was very obsessed with this idea that we all should have this five minute makeup routine that we can just kind of be our go-to. So I'm wondering, A, if you have one and B, if you have one that you would recommend, just sort of generally.
Rachel: I've always been conflicted about this because yes, we all have what we do in five minutes and I think we all need it. It's necessary because our lives are crazy and we can't spend every day unless you, I don't know who gets to, but I don't get to spend two hours a day in makeup chair. I do that for other people though. And I realized that I spend two hours doing someone's makeup and people are hoping for that result in five minutes. That is an unrealistic, never, never, never going to happen kind of thing. So I see it from both sides, but do I have one? Yeah,
Elise: I don't have a five minute routine. I just do things in five minutes. Exactly. What do you do in five minutes?
Rachel: I have moisturizer right now, sunscreen, which is my St. Jane. I do my concealer, which God knows I need mascara. An tinted lip balm and sheet color is usually my, that's my five minutes. And mascara just for me mascara is I would say the one product that I feel like I probably would never go without mascara for me is the thing that makes me feel ready for the world. So I've noticed that's my desert island for sure. If I don't have it in my bathroom, it's in my bag on my way to work. There's no world that I'm going anywhere without it, but I think five minutes is not enough. And I think we need more time to connect to ourselves. And I think what I do with my clients is ritualistic. And that's why I love it. I love it because in that time period, we're not just connecting with each other, but there's a transformational energy that comes from doing our makeup. And it's the bridge between the sweatpants and the author, the podcaster, the makeup artist, anything that you are in this world, there's this bridge that we cross. And makeup is, to me, a facilitator of that. So in those when, I hate that I only get five minutes most days
Because I think we do need more, but I know that as women, we are not really given that time all the time because of all of our obligations. But what I love about my job is that I get to give people that I get to carry them across that bridge and I enjoy the hell out of it.
Doree: Okay, let's take a break and we will be right back.
Elise: You have been all over the world in 2024 it seems like.
Rachel: Yes.
Elise: Did I see you were in Cannes and a ton of red carpets this year?
Rachel: Yes, yes. Yeah. This year it went from being no trial. My whole life was like that before Covid, and then it paused and then it started up again, I think 2022. I went back. But those two years were the first two years I wasn't on an airplane, five airplanes a month probably for 20 years. That was really amazing. It was a big shift though, and I'm grateful for it now, but at the time it felt like falling off a cliff what I was used to. And this year is more like what I'd been used to my whole career.
Elise: And last year there was the strike too. So you had a really slow summer last summer I recall.
Rachel: And that felt like, oh my God, I was having PTS. It was like, no, not again. I can't do this again. But no, the last four years have had profound effect on me. The way I see my job, the way I see what I do. I didn't stop, ever stop long enough to really look at it until the last few years. So I'm grateful. I think that I've had this reflection time literally, and I feel like now I have so much more to offer and so much more to discuss when it comes to the importance of ritual beauty, how it affects who we are, how it shapes who we become.
Doree: You alluded to when you do do that makeup that takes two hours on someone, it's unrealistic for them to expect that they can do the same thing in five minutes. And I am wondering for those of us who might not have access to a makeup artist for their red carpet event or whatever the parallel is in their lives, could you give us some tips for those types of events, like events where you know you're going to be photographed or something high profile where you are doing your own makeup? What are the things that we, people who are not makeup experts might not know about what we should be doing?
Rachel: I think definitely give yourself the two hours that day.
Doree: Take the time. Take the time.
Rachel: I had to do that recently. I was being presented with an award shockingly out of doing the opposite of what I normally do, and I had to be the one getting ready and it was a shock to the system. I felt like, wow, this is a lot of man hours.
Elise: You didn't call one of your makeup artist friends.
Rachel: I should have.
Elise: Or you could have done a freaky Friday and called one of your celebs and just been like, Hey, Emma Stone, you do my makeup now.
Rachel: Right? I know I should have. But I was like, wow, this is a lot of effort and energy. Although I felt great and I felt like I actually was like, this is fun. It can be fun. It should be fun. These are not life or death decisions, but we want to feel our best. I would say my gift I would give myself in those scenarios would be like the time, because time is a luxury for sure. In that regard. Don't try to do the same thing and the same amount of time you do on a regular day. Carve out that time. And then I would say use, don't do facial same day. Ever, ever, ever, ever. Try to do it the day before or even that week before. If you can't,
Elise: What's the effect of the facial?
Rachel: Sometimes you get a reaction. Sometimes people react to something that they didn't know, and then all of a sudden you're ready to put your makeup on, your makeup's sliding off and it doesn't work. I would just say no to that. And then I would
Doree: Definitely,
Rachel: I would say get I love face masks that are the sheet masks,
Elise: Sheet masks,
Rachel: Sheet masks the hell out of your face prior, really plump it up as much as you possibly can, and then only powder the center of your face and leave the rest.
Doree: Oh, okay.
Rachel: Those would, that would probably be a good one. That I would say works for everyone.
Doree: What about fake lashes?
Rachel: I mean, I use them a lot at work. I never use them by myself really, but I do use them a lot in my craft.
Elise: Do you do strips or individuals?
Rachel: So I used to do individuals almost exclusively for years. I would say I probably want a decade with only ever using individuals unless I was doing a photo shoot where I was doing a radical look or something. Because strip lashes tend to have a particular false look that I just doesn't really fit my aesthetic, but is there time and a place for everything but whatever. But I, in the last two years, have completely converted to Lashy, which is a different system that it took me probably a solid year to learn how to do because it was switching up from what I'd done for so long. And even us, even people like us who have to do all these things all the time, when you get into a rhythm where you're like, oh, I do it this way and I am comfortable doing it this way. We even fall on those crutches. We even get into slumps. So when I learned how to use lashy, which goes underneath instead of on top,
Elise: These are the magnetic lashes. Is that what they are?
Rachel: They're not magnetic, but they're very fine. They're super super, they're called gossamer lashes. They're super fine and they're in chunks like little pieces, not quite individuals, but small pieces. And you can layer them, you can move them around, you can do them on the, but they go underneath here and then you clamp them down and they become almost part of the, they look completely natural. They look like nothing
Doree: Else.
Rachel: So there's nothing else I've ever found. I thought that there was no more innovation to be had in the lash area. Really? I was like, but you were wrong. I was wrong. I was wrong. So funny. The founder created something magical that I had to really step out of my comfort zone to get good at. But if you see them on you, there's a store on Melrose Place for anyone that needs to go actually have them demonstrated, see how they look. Once you see how you look in them, you'll be like, I'm sold. Where do I sign up? How do I
Doree: Learn? I'm on their site right now and I'm like, oh, this is interesting.
Elise: Except it took a year to learn how to do
Doree: It. Yeah, I think I would be terrible at actually applying them, but I like the idea.
Rachel: I don't know about the learning curve. You think so, and you are at first not going to lie. You'll be terrible. And then all of a sudden it clicks. It's like anything. But you can wear them for a few days at a time as well, just so it's not just a onetime deal. I actually had them applied to me one time and I wore them I think for three days and I was in heaven. They're not like extensions because they don't go wonky. They just look incredible. And because you don't see that false line on the top, they're underneath. It creates a strength to the eye. It creates a bit, a more definition and thicker, fuller lashes without looking like you have anything on. So those are my favorite thing for the red carpet and for certain photo shoots, I think every woman should learn how to do it, and I'm glad I did. Okay.
Doree: Okay. Good to
Elise: Know. So let's go high low, Rachel, because I'd also love to know, because I don't want to break the bank. Your favorite drugstore beauty products,
Rachel: Burt's Bees, tinted Lip Balm in Dahlia. Favorite forever. I love L'Oreal Mascara is just like, I mean, it's a given that you're going to, I go through so much mascara that
Elise: For me it's a voluminous.
Rachel: Yeah, I feel like, yeah, I just feel like you think it's necessary to spend a fortune on mascara. Mascara is something you have to go through a lot. You have to get rid of every six weeks because you should, because of just using it on your eye and then putting it back. It's like you should probably be cut off at six weeks. It's got to go in the can. So I feel badly throwing away something that often that is a $60 or something like that. A mascara, I think mascara and actually made in the same labs as all the other mascara with different packaging that are more expensive. So I'm like, I'm happy buying drugstore mascara. Neutrogena's Healthy Lash was one that I used for many years and I still think is great because I have very sensitive eyes and it's a supernatural looking formula and it never, I've not reacted to at one time. It's really great. So those are probably my,
Doree: Okay. This is all good to know. Rachel. Is there any other makeup tip that we haven't covered or we haven't asked you about that you would like to share with our listeners?
Rachel: I think I would just say makeup tips are, they're like moving targets. First of all. It's like there sort of always, there's always something new to say about how to apply products or I think we all do things differently. Even one of the things I loved about assisting as a young makeup artist was getting to see how different artists approach the same thing. I mean, if I was to give five different makeup artists the same five products, none of us would do the same thing with them. And I love that. I love how
Elise: There's artistry,
Rachel: There's artistry involved. And I think that we all forget, we're all artists. I believe everyone's an artist and we're born creative and we have our own little things that I've, as many things as I've learned over the years, I still learn every time I watch someone else. So I think I get the appeal of wanting to know the right way, but I think we should give ourselves a little bit more credit. We probably know more than we think. And I think that remember that there products are prescriptive, but you should find new ways to use them. If it comes down to, I would say one of my favorite things to do is look at a product. For instance, it's a pencil, a lip pencil, and I'm like, Ooh, I love the texture of this. And I try that color on my cheek, or I love this lipstick so much on my lips. I tried it on my cheek. I think there's this thing that it's like, oh, you can't do that, or you shouldn't do that, do that.
Elise: Just go there.
Doree: Just go
Elise: There. Well, Rachel, this has been just so you've been full of insight and education. We've just loved having you and I am hoping that the listeners will enjoy this too. Where can listeners find you? Where are you hanging out online these days?
Rachel: I mostly am just on Instagram and probably not as often as I should be, but I am, that's where, that's my platform that I have built my community most. I lurk on TikTok, but I don't participate as probably much as I should. I love watching tiktoks. I get sent a lot of tiktoks, but I don't necessarily, I'm not as on there quite as often, so you'd probably want to find me on Rachel Goodwin makeup on Instagram. And that's pretty much it for the moment. I am currently working on a memoir, which I'm very excited about, and I'm hoping that I'll have it done by next year. So that's still in the works. And yeah, that's pretty much it for now. But I love getting these kinds of dms and stuff on Instagram, so if anyone has any specific questions about products and stuff, feel free to reach out to me there.
Doree: Alright. Thank you so much. I learned a lot and it was just great. It was great to get to talk to you.
Rachel: I'm so glad there was such a pleasure. Thank you, ladies.
Doree: Whenever we talk to actual experts and things, I always feel like I learn so much.
Elise: Yeah, that's what makes it awesome to be a podcaster. It's true. It's people's brains for their insights and it makes us better people.
Doree: Yes, yes. Elise?
Elise: Yes.
Doree: Last week you said you were going to slow down, but I mean, just based on my texting with you, it didn't seem like you had slowed down that much.
Elise: No, in my mind, I did intend it. I did truly intend it. But this is sucked such a harried time of travel, and we've been living the weeks in terms of world events. We've been living those weeks. Where can we really slow down? Because there's so much going on. There's so much turbulence happening at all times all around us. And so it was very hard for me to live out my intention of slowing down. It's tough. And so I'm wondering if for this week I can find a way to have a less ambitious intention or break it into a bit, break it into apart instead of just slow down, which was too broad. What would be a more incremental way to do that? Is it just sort of a time of reflection maybe? My intention, and I'm actually just working this out as I'm talking to you. One way that I can take a beat, especially after days and weeks of lots of activity and constant motion, is to make time to write in my journal, which gets left by the wayside when I am going too fast. And so why don't I set an intention to journal every day?
And it doesn't have to be loquacious, it doesn't have to be this long considered piece.
Doree: Yeah, I just should do it. For me, this is why I like the one line of day journal.
Elise: Yep.
Doree: It's so manageable.
Elise: Yep. So that's what I'm going to do. I might write only one line a day, but I am going to journal every day. That'll be my intention. Doree, how did you do on getting a good night's sleep?
Doree: I did better. Good. I've woken up a couple times, but I think I've been falling back asleep a little faster, so that's been good. This week I found some good exercises for prevention of tennis elbow and my arm is feeling pretty good now, and I would love to just not get tennis elbow again. So I'm going to try to do these preventative exercises.
Okay,
Cool. That's the plan.
That sounds
Good. Thank you. Sounds like a good one. Well, thanks everyone for listening, and just a reminder that Forever35 is hosted and produced. I need Doha Freer and Elise Hu. And produced and edited by Sam eo. Sammy Reed is our project manager and our network partners. Thanks everyone. Bye bye. Bye.
*Transcripts are AI generated.