Episode 246: The Funny Thing About Grief with Amanda Deibert
“A lot of social media is what you make of it.”
- Amanda Deibert
Kate ponders her bias toward cheaper makeup and Doree supports her. Then, New York Times–bestselling comic book and TV writer Amanda Deibert joins them to talk about how a Twitter thread turned into her gratitude journal You Already Have The Answers, what it's like to write stories about some of the most beloved comic book characters of all time, and why practicing gratitude shouldn’t feel like forced optimism.
Photo Credit: Cat Stagg
Mentioned in this Episode
Amanda Deibert’s Socials
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Transcript
Kate: Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast on all the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Kate Spencer.
Doree: And I'm Doree Shafrir.
Kate: And we are not experts.
Doree: No. But we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: Before we kick things off, you can visit our website forever35podcast.com for things, for links to things we we're, links to everything we talk about here on the show. Our Instagram's @Forever35podcast. There is the Forever35 Facebook group where the password is serums. You can shop our handpicked favorite products shopmy.us/forever35. You can also sign up for the newsletter at Forever35podcast.com/newsletter.
Doree: And do call or text us at (781) 591-0390, and you can always email us at forever35podcasts@gmail.com.
Kate: Doree. Greetings, greeting. Greeting. Greetings, greetings and salutes. I wanted to come to the table today with something that's been on my mind since our conversation with Valerie Monroe. Okay. All right. So here's the deal. So I was on the target I was targeting, I was over on Target and I was kinda like, you know what? I don't need to be spending a shitload of money on makeup. I, excuse me. First of all, nobody needs to spend a shitload of money on makeup, period. This is not to say that because I don't wear makeup often, I should wear by the only by. This is not qu what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying that the cost of something determines the quality is, that's not what I'm trying to say. But what I kind of had a moment of where I was like, I don't wear makeup every day.
The cost of the money that I spend on makeup, it's a lot. And yeah, I suspect that I could really mean, now one choice would be not to wear makeup at all, but I'm not there yet. So I was kinda like, you know what? I'm gonna revisit the world of drugstore, pharmacy, target makeup brands, because there's a lot of great stuff there at a much lower price point. And I'm gonna feel really good about this choice. And I, I've been thinking about this too in terms of skincare stuff with talking to Val where she was basically, it's the stuff you get outta the drugstore is great. And I was like, yes, God, I have this real classist perception of products, I think, right? I think we can get very easily swept up into marketing and also the concept that if something is more expensive, it means it's better, et cetera, et cetera.
So I just wanted to formally announce that I have been circling the aisles and I have picked up a couple things that I'm excited about and I am going to be hopefully buying some more things as the need arises. I don't have a need for everything, but I just wanted to throw that out there. So I went with Elf and Cover Girl and I tried to get some Nyx stuff, but it was not available. But I got some Cover Girl Clean Fresh Skin Milk Foundation, which is a very light kind of dewy, think like your Elia, your Cosis kinda light, light skin tint. And I really like this stuff like it a lot. Okay, so I was very excited about this. I was trying to grab some new makeup for my vacation, which by the time you hear this, I will be back from, but I haven't gone yet.
So I got tried Cover Girl Skin Milk, love it. Then I got Cover Girl Lash Blast, clean Volume Mascara. Love it. Okay, <affirmative>, here's why I like it goes on Light Hydrating goes on light. It's got your whole list of free of parabens, all the stuff that we say that you don't want, but it, it's Cover Girls kinda making a push. They're cruelty free, they're Leaping Bunny certified and cruelty free. This specific mascara is part of their quote clean brand, which we have feelings about the word clean and beauty products, but that is just the one I bought. But it's very lengthening stays on all day, very easy to take off. It's not the waterproof one. Then I decided I want a light shadow stick to line the inside of my eyes with, I bought elf's, no budge shadow stick in the color champagne Crystal.
Very nice. And I'm also using on the lid. And then I bought elf's Wow Brow Gel. wow Brow gel. Also, also great. So all of this came to around $30 for four makeup products for products that honestly I could just do and have it be my face and walk out the door. But I'm like, I would love to know what drugstore makeup finds you are loving right now. Because I have to say, I've never really been drawn to Cover Girl. But I was like, oh, hello, easy breezy, beautiful Cover girl. Is it me? Like, yes, I am now a Cover Girl stan. So I would love to know what are people's must have specifically drugstore makeup line items, talk to me. And then we were out last night with friends, you and I, and our friend was like, this is the lip stain. Everybody loves from Nyx. And I was like, what? I don't know. This lip stain.
Doree: And it really stayed on also,
Kate: She had a great red lip going the whole night.
Doree: Yeah, she really did.
Kate: And their lipsticks are six to $7 and Elf's lip stains are like six bucks. So I guess what I'm saying is I am on the one hand reevaluating the way in which I have approached buying things and the value that I place on things. And then slash I'm also looking for some great products to buy. So tell me what I should be getting. Tell me what I should be getting.
Doree: I mean, you heard the lady
Kate: Yeah, I wanna know, remember you bought a bunch of Nyx brow products?
Doree: Yes.
Kate: And they were great.
Doree: I do remember this.
Kate: I remember how good they looked on you.
Doree: Thank you. Thank you so much.
Kate: And I don't wanna sound like I'm being condescending in any way about the choices we make in makeup purchasing. I'm just trying to reevaluate my own excess philosophies, my own prejudices. Because I do think that is, I remember, I dunno if you ever had this moment where you were like, oh, I'm gonna get myself some good mascara, and that meant spending more money or about any product, I'm gonna get a "good" dot dot dot. And I just think that I don't like that. That has been my line of thinking. And sometimes it is true, sometimes it's true. Something I'm thinking about. I also really, really wanted to dip a tone, a wet-n-wild, but they didn't, I have a couple wet-n-wild products already, but I really wanted to get more, but they didn't have a ton. So just know that Wet-n-Wild is on my radar.
Doree: And unfortunately you couldn't travel back in time to the nineties to raid your own wet-n-wild stash.
Kate: So much wet-n-wild. I mean, I had a red lipstick that I bought recently from Wet-n-Wild. That is fantastic. And it was like $3 as opposed to a $30 lipstick you might get at ye old Sephoras. So again, let's start talking about the drugstore items that we are purchasing.
Doree: Let's do that.
Kate: And I wanna hear your drugstore serums too. I wanna hear it all. Okay, Doree.
Doree: All right. yeah.
Kate: Another thing I tried to get, but they were sold out, Cerave face Wash, hydrating facial cleanser. Sold out. I love that stuff. It's a classic. All right, I'm, I'm gonna calm down now, but I just feel like I needed to make this pronouncement that I'm on this journey.
Doree: So Kate, let's introduce our guest.
Kate: We are joined by Amanda Deibert. She is a New York Times bestselling comic book writer, a podcast host, and a writer for Netflix's Heman and masters of the universe. She's married to the amazing illustrator, Cat Staggs. She's very active in the LGBTQ and comic book communities. And her latest book, a guided gratitude journal titled You Already Have the Answers, is out on December 6th,
Doree: This Tuesday,
Kate: Amanda, that's right, this coming Tuesday.
Doree: It's such a beautiful, wonderful book and it would actually make a great gift. So if you're looking for something along these lines, I highly recommend picking this one up.
Kate: It's a beautiful gratitude journal. I have pre-ordered my copy. I am eagerly awaiting it. We are gonna be doing a giveaway too, so please go pop on over to our Instagram, cuz we have some of these journals to actually give away. Thank you to Amanda and her publisher. And we just had such a lovely chat with Amanda. She's, she's really open and honest. We talked about her career experience with grief as an orphan, talk about her self care practice of course. And she and her wife have collaborated on comics and they're just amazing. They have real power, couple energy and like comic power couple. There is a superhero energy.
Doree: Totally. All right. So here's Amanda.
Kate: Hi Amanda. Welcome to Forever35. We're very glad to have you here.
Amanda: I'm really excited to be here. Thank you.
Kate: I feel like for the sake of the pod, we should just say that we know each other IRL and we are all in a parenting group together. So we've shared intimate parenting moments together online
Amanda: Extremely,
Doree: Extremely intimate moments.
Amanda: Extremely. Extremely. Yes.
Kate: Yes.
Doree: I know more, I probably know more about Amanda's personal motherhood journey than I do about many close friends, like IRL friends,
Kate: Yeah. I mean that's the magic of online spaces. I think when they're great, they really become a refuge of vulnerability and sharing. And then when they're not great, they become, whatever's happening on Twitter right now,
Doree: Well, Amanda, we like to start by asking our guests about a self care practice that they have. So what is yours?
Amanda: I mean, I have been trying to focus on being a lot better with self care recently. And one of the newer things, I mean a lot of the things that I've been good about doing especially when we were in lockdown and really in the intensity of the pandemic were things like walking and running and just getting outside and move my body and getting quiet time and alone time. That's been really important for me. But a thing that I've started to do recently that I feel like maybe both of you will relate to a little bit is because I'm a writer, I spend a lot of my time writing or a lot of times reading things that are for research or work related. And I haven't gotten to do as much pleasure reading just for fun. That has nothing to do with any project that I'm working on. So a thing that I started doing the last couple months is going to the library with my daughter, even though my house is full of books that I still am working on and reading and need to read and picking out for fun, for pleasure, just cozy read that is just for me time. So I've been reading through Agatha Christie right now
Kate: Oh, the best.
Amanda: Just fun mysteries for fun. And so that's been the thing that I've been doing it just making sure that I have some time where I can curl up with my coffee or on a hammock or whatever and just read for pleasure. So that's my new self care thing that I'm obsessed with
Kate: Is does it take your brain a beat to even just allow yourself that time? Are you able to be like, you know what, no, this is my sanctioned time for pleasure and I'm gonna have it. Or is there always for you a voice that's like, should be doing this? How do you navigate that if you do it all?
Amanda: I mean, there is a huge guilt component for me. Anytime that I'm doing something that's for me or for pleasure. And especially because, again, because my work is all freelance, there's always things that I could be doing. There is never a clock off time for me. There's always emails I could respond to or things I should be writing or things I should be promoting or whatever, laundry. So it's hard. I do have to really take a beat and convince myself that this is good for me. That it's good for me as a mother, that it's good for me as a wife, that it's good for me as a writer to have these times where I am just recharging myself and unplugging from my to-do list. And the nice thing with books is they have chapters so I can tell myself, no, I'm just gonna read this one chapter and then I will put it away and do the 5,000 things that I feel like I should be doing. But really we're talking about probably 20 minutes of my time. It's really not actually that much time I'm giving myself, but it makes a huge difference in how I feel about my enjoyment of life.
Doree: I love that. And as a avid, as an avid reader of mysteries, I hardily approve of your choice of Agatha Christie as your kind of comfort escape, read. I haven't reread Agatha Christie in so long. I haven't, or Sherlock Holmes or any of those kind of classic mysteries that I read as a kid. And now you're making me think maybe I should.
Amanda: Think you should jump on this. I highly recommend, I mean, I've got lots of things. I try to keep up with things that are current, but I wanted something that didn't feel like I was doing it for any reason other than my own love of it. And I'm also, I'm a big murder mystery lover, so for me it was like, yes, let's do this cozy thing. So please join me.
Kate: I have an Agatha Christie question. Actually, I have never read an Agatha Christie book. Is there one that you recommend as the entry point for newbies?
Amanda: I like the Miss Marple series for an entry because, so she does different series with different kind of detective protagonist. But the fun thing with Miss Marple is she's the nosy elderly woman in the small town. Who has just watched life so much that she understands what's happening. Because she'll always be like, oh, it's like that time the one guy down the street did this thing with his toad. And that reminds me of that. And that's why he murdered that girl. And it's just this fun, nosy old woman who solves all the crimes. And the first one of that is Murder at the Vicarage is the first Miss Marble. So you can start there and then it goes to murder at the library. And so there's the whole Miss Marble series, which I would recommend as a fun way in.
Kate: Amazing. Okay, great.
Doree: And her other detective is her Poro, who is very different and French and has his own personality and his mysteries take him farther afield murder on the Orient Express, for example,
Kate: Which is a very famous one. Correct?
Doree: Yes.
Amanda: Mm-hmm.
Kate: I'll get on this here.
Doree: Amanda, I feel like we could talk a lot about murder mysteries. Cause I'm also such a big fan, but we'll move on to other topics namely your gratitude journal, which is amazing and I'm so excited that people are gonna get to read it and use it. And it's just really great. So can you tell us a little bit about it and what inspired it and what you hope people get from it?
Amanda: Sure. So it's something good that came from Twitter actually.
Kate: Well, you're somebody who I think does Twitter so well and so right
Amanda: oh, thank you.
Kate: Anyway, we talk more about this, but you really nailed Twitter.
Amanda: Well, I think what I've come to realize is that a lot of social media is really what you make it and the kind of community you create for yourself, much how we all know each other from a community of parents that we have and are very supportive. And in Twitter, I feel like that is something that I have worked to create is a community in using Twitter in a certain kind of way because it's the way that I enjoy using it because that's how and why I want to use it which is connection, which is supposed to be the point of social media in the first place, is for us to connect with one another and share information and also maybe support each other. That's the kumbaya version that we don't get much of. And that's actually how this journal started was in November of 2016, actually the beginning of the last few years of, These last few years have been, I dunno if you have noticed that the last few years have been really hard. Yeah. For the world.
Kate: I'm familiar.
Amanda: If you haven't noticed.
Kate: Yeah, I've tasted that a little bit. I think Doree, you have too. It's been challenging.
Doree: Yeah.
Amanda: So this was even before Pandemic life back in 2016 when it felt, especially here in the United States, we were all kind of on edge and everyone was very stressed out and upset for a lot of very valid and important reasons. And I was thinking about, because it was November, I was thinking about gratitude and the kind of gratitude posts that people often do in November where they're start listing every good thing that happened in their year or every good thing and they have in their life, and how sometimes that can feel almost like a humble brag or just a weird thing. And I was like, I don't wanna do that, but wouldn't it be cool if I could figure out a way to ask questions that sort of sneakily got people to think about the things in life that are actually things that they should be proud of or that they enjoy or that they love.
And so it started with a really basic, what's something that you're grateful for? But then I started getting a little thoughtful in the approach and realizing that we all know that life is not all wonderful and roses, and that it's not just the power of positive thinking is gonna make the horrible things that you're going through disappear. It would be so great if that was how life works. That's not how life works. But there is this thing that is true, that is, we've all gone through really hard shit and the ways that we've gotten through or the people that have supported us or helped us get through are amazing. And those are the silver linings and those are the wonderful things. So for me, it was about asking the kind of questions of what's something that you're proud to have overcome? Or tell me about a time that a stranger did something for you and it changed everything, changed your life or helped your day or did lovely things.
And I thought a couple people would answer the questions and that would be the end of it. And instead people got really open, really vulnerable, started sharing these intimate, very personal stories of loss, of triumph, of things that they've struggled with. And then other people were coming into the thread and being like, oh, that reminds me of this thing that happened to me. And when I went through that, or, oh, you're going through this right now. Well, I went through that and this is what helped me, or let me DM you the support group for bereaved people or whatever it might be. And what was really interesting is there were no trolls in these threads. And still, this was in 2016, I'm still doing these questions. They still don't get trolled. It's the weirdest thing. I'm knock on wood, don't wanna jinx myself. But for some reason, I think because people are so earnest and genuine and open that it just doesn't create a good space for it.
So it just doesn't work for trolling because nobody's gonna bother interacting with that. So they started going really viral and people started writing articles about it, and I stopped doing them for a little while and then people were like, oh, I missed your questions. I need those questions. They, they're really even reading other people's answers really inspire me and make me feel better about the world. And so I just kept doing it and then now it's been so many years later and I just never stopped. And it just kept happening and people kept opening up and the community kept growing and then people were like, oh, I wish you would do this in a book. So we could read everybody's inspiring stories. I think it'd be so good for people to have. And I didn't feel ethically ok with using other people's story, even though they were sharing them openly online.
It didn't feel good to me to be like, let me take your big child childhood trauma and this beautiful story that you have about it and put it in a book that's like that I'm doing. So what I came up with instead was this guided gratitude journal. You already have the answers. And I did. So it's 365 questions and I did each month. You don't have to start in a particular month, but it's broken up into 12 chapters that are all themed. It starts with what you're already doing, then it gets into love, then the helpers in your life, the trailblazers, where you come from. So the ways that you're happy to be different from your family of origin and the ways that you're happy that you're your family of origin, all these different things. And then to give it that community, you're not alone spirit.
Each chapter, I start with a small little write up with my thoughts on that topic, and then I share a few of my own answers, which is something that I never did really on the Twitter threads because I didn't want it to be about me. But in the book, I wanna do this thing, you're gonna be vulnerable, you're gonna answer these questions in this journal, so I'm gonna do it with you so that you understand that you're not alone. And that we all kind of go through this stuff and we all have these stories to tell. And so it came from Twitter. Now it's a physical journal that you can either do alone or share with other people in your life or do together, but that's the origin of how this thing came to be
Doree: So cool. So we're just gonna take a short break and we will be right back. Okay. We're back.
Kate: What do you hope as this, as your book enters the world that people take away from it? Or how do you hope it impacts people on an individual level?
Amanda: I want people to realize how amazing they are. I really wanna lead into the title of, you already have the answers, you've been Doing life already. Yes, there's areas and room for improvement. We all have that and we should reflect on that, and that's really important. But holy shit, you've been doing so much right this whole time you've been getting up and getting out there and look at what you've accomplished despite all the things that have popped up. Look at these hard things that you've gone through and then use that to help somebody else going through the hard thing. I mean, look at what you've done with your life and the people that you've loved and the people that have loved you and the strangers who have done beautiful things for you. And then the things that you have done for strangers that might be just as meaningful and you don't even know. And when you're thinking about what it means to you, hopefully you're thinking about that. You have also been that. So that's my hope is that people realize that they're very interesting and should be very proud of themselves, and that they have these cool stories to tell that maybe they've forgotten about and shelved away because these aren't the kinds of things that we talk about in small talk. Right.
Kate: Have you had a moment where you realized you had the answer? Have you had that moment where you're like, oh shit, I do know what I'm doing when you've, there's been that self doubt or whatever, that feeling of not being able to do something and then you realize you actually can,
Amanda: I mean, perpetually because I'm, I think as with many creatives the imposter syndrome cycle can be very real
Kate: Yes.
Amanda: And it's like, oh, do I know what I'm doing? And then suddenly like, oh my God, yes I do. I mean, even actually creating this book, creating this guided journal was in many ways that for me where I was like, oh, I don't know if I know how to just, I do, I generally write comic books and graphic novels and then for tv. And so this is the first thing that I've done that is different from that. And I think I had this big scary concept of what it would be to sell any kind of a book or to pitch any kind of a book. And it just seemed something very out of reach. Even going out there and putting myself out there and trying to get, and then getting a literary rate agent and then pitching it to publishers and kind of panicking about, what am I doing? This is a crazy thing. And then when I was lucky enough that it went to auction, and so there were multiple publishers interested, and then I was like, oh, oh, I'm right. This is a thing that people want and that would be useful in the world, and that I am making something of value. And that was a big moment for me of, oh, I can create something that I feel like is needed and wanted. And then that can be true.
Doree: So speaking of tv, you were part of the Heman reboot.
Kate: Oh boy.
Amanda: Yes. Yes.
Doree: Let's talk about this.
Amanda: Lets do. So the first thing that I have to say, because people are always like, what's it working with Kevin Smith? And I have to say, I don't know, because there are two Hemans that Netflix did. So there's the Kevin Smith Heman, and then there's the one that's more geared for, so that was the more nostalgic Heman created for say, more people our age to watch. And then there's Heman in the Masters of the Universe, not Revelations. So revelations of Kevin Smith, Heman Masters of the universe, that is the CG Animated series for kids. And that's the one that I wrote on.
Doree: So Kate had a confession in our prep document. Kate, do you wanna share this?
Kate: Yeah, I had never told you this before. Had I Doree?
Doree: No, you had not.
Kate: Yeah, Heman along with, I would say Prince was one of, and actually Duran Duran, which we will talk to you about a little bit. Some of my first crushes. And so Heman was one of the first. I was born in 1979, so that should give you a sense of how old I was at the time. And I used to lick the TV when he came. And I can remember this feeling of being so sexually attracted to Heman, but I was also under five years old at this point. And I just Hemans a sexy, he's a hot character, he's just got sexual like dare say, bde.
Amanda: I have a gay male friend who said pretty much the same thing when I first started writing on the show. And he was like, oh my God, my first childhood crush. I think, yes, I think this is not rare. I think this is actually, I think within our generation, for people that are attracted to men, or masculine type people, that that's probably very common as a lesbian, he doesn't do it for me. But
Kate: Thats fair, that makes sense.
Doree: Does Shera?
Amanda: But I do get it. Yea. And Jim and The Holograms and all,
Kate: oh my God,
Amanda: Right. Cartoons!
Kate: You know what, we don't actually ever talk about our cartoon or meaning us. I know this is actually very common as a cultural dialogue, but cartoon crushes are a very real experience, both as kids and dare I say, as adults. And you work as a person who works in the comic space, It is very real to not just be attracted to a fictional character, but an illustrated fictional character. It's kind of a little bit of a mind fuck.
Amanda: Oh yeah. And especially I write Wonder Woman a lot, and they're the Wonder Woman fans, oh my God, are very fans.
Kate: They very fans.
Amanda: which is a it's fun thing. But yeah, for sure.
Kate: What is it like getting to work on these kind of iconic characters, right? There's kind of a gravitas that comes with it in terms of honoring the past, but also wanting to bring fresh perspective to these established characters. How do you walk that line creatively and honor your creative vision, but then also balance the pressure of fandom?
Amanda: It is a really tricky thing. Wonder Woman was the first time that I ever delved into that. Now I have gone into all the scary fandoms. I've done Star Wars and Wonder Woman and Heman, and basically anything where there could be the potential for people to scream at me that I have ruined their childhood. So walk this line. But yeah, I remember the first time I was asked to write Wonder Woman thinking, there's so much history here, there's so much that's been done. There's also so much you wanna honor. You don't wanna reinvent a character. She's beloved for a reason. And there are things about her that make her who she is that you don't want to. As much as we're creatives and we wanna tell stories our own way, there's so much that you do have to honor and respect about why people love this property that you're working in and this universe and these characters that you're working on.
And so it really is about trying to say, okay, first I'm gonna have my little panic attack about all the pressure that comes with this because this isn't just something I'm making up. This is an iconic beloved character. And people are gonna have big reactions to it. And you put that aside and then you go, okay, what is the best story that I can tell in the parameters of who this is that is very true to this character? And there is something kind of fun about I kind of playing in somebody else's sandbox and having, there's almost a freedom of creativity and having parameters. Cause it's like, okay, you're gonna be in here, but then do whatever you want, but you just don't go outta here. Wonder Woman's always gonna be about truth. So you gotta play in that world and what that means. And so that's the fun that it is.
I mean, every time I write for a new fandom that I've never written before, I always have that moment of panic of, okay, this is gonna be the time. This is gonna be the time that I'm gonna write something and everyone's gonna hate it. And I'm gonna have to deal with just a relentless onslaught of negative feedback and prepare myself for it. And honestly, so far, this is another knock on wood moment, but I haven't personally experienced that yet. I'm not saying that every single human loves everything I write, but I just mean I haven't had a big backlash moment ever with anything I've written. So I feel very fortunate and my day will come. But so far, its all good.
Doree: I actually think it's, it is important as creators and people who use social media to just have that sort of humility. My day will come. I know some day this is going to happen because we are fools to think that we we'll be in you. Yeah. Amanda, what is your comics origin story? Were you super into comics as a kid? What were you into? How did this become your thing?
Amanda: I wasn't super into comics as a kid, but I did read them. I did. I read a lot of Archie Digest and Betty and Veronica, they would tell them at the grocery store, and that would be my mom's treat for me if I was behaving at the grocery store was like, then I could read some Betty and Veronica talk about early cartoon childhood crushes both babes. So it was brilliant to have Betty and Veronica. And so I read a lot of that growing up and was very aware. And then as I got a little older, Xmen was very popular and those kind of things. And so I did start getting more into it. But my real comics origin story was first and foremost dating my now wife. So I'm married to Cat Staggs who's an illustrator. And when we started dating, she was doing a lot of Lucas Films illustrations at the time, Star Wars stuff.
And so I started getting more into the comic world and going to conventions with her and seeing and learning more about the comic world. And I was already a television writer. I was starting my career in writing tv. I was already a writer. And then we started doing this comic strip together online that we did for two years. We did this web comic called Hot Mess, which was just me telling true, real embarrassing stories from my life. And then my wife illustrating them. And so it was just really ridiculous things for this female comedy website that existed at the time. And so every week I would tell some embarrassing story, she would illustrate it, and we'd done that for two years. So I got accustomed to the comic format and writing in panels and spar dialogue and all that. And then I was also doing, at the time I was still acting, I used to be an actor before I really started writing full-time.
And so I was also doing kind of YouTube comedy videos for this website. And I did one, I'm an orphan and my parents died when I was young. And I did a Father's Day that was kind of a funny, poking fun at myself of how hard those kind of holidays can be as an orphan. But where I slowly morphed into Batman because he's also an orphan and that's the joke with him. And so I slowly turned into Batman through this video and it went around the DC offices apparently. Everybody thought it was funny. And then this editor reached out to me and she was like, I've been reading your hot mess. I saw I'd also done something in a small comic anthology. And she was like, I saw your thing in the anthology. Your video was really funny. Do you wanna write Wonder Woman?
Kate: Wow.
Amanda: Do you wanna write a Wonder Woman story? And I was like sure. So that was my jump in. It was a little bit like, oh, most iconic female superhero of all time. Sure, I'll cut my teeth with that one.
Kate: I'm used to jumping in feet first. I mean,
Amanda: Yeah, that's been the story of many things that I've done is somehow, I always just end up in the deep end of whatever. And then with you've got the preparation and all the work and all the whatever, but then it's once I start something, for some reason always the deep end.
Kate: It is like the title of your book of you already have the answer that always that feeling. I think when you get thrown into something of, I don't know what I'm doing, but I also kind of believe you do already know. You know, probably did have the experience even if you know it wasn't evident up top. Okay. Well let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. All right, we are back. I wanted to just circle back to you mentioning being an orphan. You've written about grief and you know, and I share losing our moms in common but I don't know if we've ever spoken about people who have lost both parents. And I imagine that's a very unique experience. And I'm just curious if you had thoughts for any of our listeners out there who may relate to that.
Amanda: Well, I just think you're right in that it's kind of a unique experience and it can feel very lonely. I was just thinking about this actually really recently. I just turned 40 this weekend and my mother was 35 when she passed. So I'm already the much older woman in this scenario. I have the laugh lines and the smile lines that she never had and even some life experience that she, I couldn't think, what would mom say in this scenario? Cause I'm like, oh no, I'm probably older, wiser, and more experienced than whatever my mom would've said in this situation. Which is a unique, I mean, not unique. Other people go through it, but it's an unusual situation. Most of us, even if we lose parents, it's a little later in life. You maybe don't have as much life that you're living without them or the perspective.
So it can get, there's this new layer of grief that came when I turned 36 that I thought I had experienced so much grief already because I was 14 when my mother passed and I never met my father. So I don't have, the grief is different there. I've spent so many years without my mother that I kind of felt like I was the vet of grief. I had been down that road, I've had all the milestones and then my own motherhood brought up new stuff and I was like, oh, here's a fun new layer of grief of having this child that my mother never got to know. And also the perspective of being a mother that I never get to share that helps me understand my mom in a new way. And even thinking about, oh God, when she was dying and she had three little girls understanding more now what that experience must have been like for her in a new way.
And then now the new one that happened when I hit 36 was of being the older woman. And that it didn't occur to me that would be a new grief that I would experience with every birthday going forward. But I've realized that it kind of is now going forward every year it's gonna be another year that mom didn't get another perspective that I have that she doesn't beyond just the many many years that I just haven't had her. And so that was a new and kind of unexpected one for me. And I guess that's the thing is it's just like, that's the funny thing with grief that I know that you understand as well, is that there's all these layers. You think at the first when you lose a parent young, you know, think of the tragedy of this child losing a parent and that is a tragedy.
And then there's all these other layers that it didn't even occur to me to know, to think about. It's like, oh, I'm grieving for that 14 year old, but there's also this 40 year old doing her own new grief thing that is new and terrible cause it's all terrible. But I think it's important to realize that there are other people out there who have that experience because it can be, we watch our friends go through the hard things with their parents aging and their parents getting sick and or getting frustrated with their parents because of generational divides. And it's not something that I'm going through, which in itself is a pain and a loss, but it's also what my friends are going through is very real as well and hard. And I won't have that experience of watching my mother become old and frail, which is good and bad. I dunno, it's, it's a real mixed bag grief,
Kate: It is. And there's no right answer, but I appreciate what you're saying. Cause I don't think I'd ever, I've thought about what it'll feel like when I reach the age that my mom was, but I've never thought about the fact that, that I'm the older, that they're stuck at that age and that you suddenly become older and more experienced. I don't know if I've thought about it from that perspective. So that's really interesting. I appreciate you sharing that.
Amanda: I hadn't either, because all I had thought about was kind of the milestone of making it past 35.
Kate: Right? Yeah.
Amanda: I'd thought about that feeling so important to make it to 35 and make it past. And I think I got so focused on 35 that I didn't think about what it would feel like to be 40.
Kate: Yeah. Well, happy belated. We should say. You did just turn 40. You mentioned that your wife is an incredibly talented illustrator and she made you an amazing piece of art for your birthday that I just wanted to point out Doree and I both noted this in our document.
Doree: Oh, cause it's the greatest thing in the world.
Kate: So great. Can you describe it a little bit? It's the perfect 40 year old gift for someone born in 1982. She made you an album of yourself, but in the style of Duran Duran's Rio album.
Amanda: Correct.
Kate: I mean.
Amanda: So she drew me on the cover as an homage to Duran Duran's Rio.
Doree: That's so cool.
Amanda: And then titled it 1982. And then she also made a custom playlist, a mix tape style, but then it was burned onto the album. So it's a vinyl cause we both really love records. And we listen to records. And so it's a bunch of my favorite songs. So it's a mix tape. It's a Duran Duran omage its beautiful art of me. So I love it.
Kate: So my daughter is nine and she's really into Duran Duran right now, so
Amanda: Oh, that's adorable.
Kate: Anytime I see an adult peer with a Duran Duran reference, I'm like, oh, my nine year old would really, but I don't know any other nine year olds who love Duran Duran. So it's fun to talk to my adult friends about it.
Amanda: I mean, that's really cute and cool
Kate: Shes having a moment. She's very cute. I wanna just ask quickly about your own gratitude practice. How do you practice gratitude beyond just talking about it and creating this incredible written creation about it, but in addition to, what is your gratitude practice? What do you do when you hit the snag where you're like, I really wanna find something to be grateful for, but I'm not, today is not the day?
Amanda: Well, I think it's okay to sometimes have the days where it's not the day its okay, for a bad day to happen. It's okay to say not every day is gonna be a great day and today's a shit day and fine. It's a shit day. We can all know that there are people in the world at any given moment going through so much worse than whatever we're going through at any given day. That is true for, I mean, there was probably one person who actually has the worst life in the world, and that person can say that, but for the rest of us, there's always somebody who has it worse. And so first and foremost, I think you have to give yourself the space to just have a shitty day and to feel sorry for yourself and to feel grumpy and to have a little temper tantrum and go, I hate this.
Everything's going wrong and things suck and I'm mad. And I think that also helps with the gratitude. I think if you give yourself the space to actually feel all of your feelings, that's where you've given yourself room. Because otherwise it's fake gratitude. It's that toxic positivity bullshit. Because if I'm having a shitty day where I've gotten really bad news, or somebody I care about has gotten really bad news or help or something really bad is happening, or even not that bad, I dunno. I drop dishes on the floor and now I have to clean up glass. And then I go, well, I'm really grateful for blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But am I though? or am I just gaslighting myself that I'm supposed to be okay and be grateful and that I'm not allowed to feel this bad feeling or be upset or be angry because I'm a woman and I'm never allowed to have a negative feeling. So like,
Kate: oh my God, You are speaking it. Thank you,
Amanda: But I think we can only give ourselves the space for the good things if we have the space for the bad things. So I think both be aware, of course, we have so many things to be grateful for our children, and sometimes we can have rough days as parents. And then you wanna also remind yourself that you're so lucky to be their parent because they're these wonderful, amazing children who are obsessed with Duran Duran. And that's so cute and amazing and wonderful. And that doesn't mean that it's not hard to be a mom.
Kate: Yes. But also I love this idea of gaslighting yourself. Yes. That is such a thing we do sometimes that really resonated. I've never thought about it that way.
Amanda: Well, it's a thing I wanted to be the most careful with my journal because I think that a lot of people get into the gratitude space or the self-help space. And it can be very damaging this message that we always have to be doing these gratitude mantras or feeling good about things all the time, or we're doing it wrong, or we're fucking it up, or we're not grateful enough or we're not manifesting enough. And that was the thing that I really, really, really didn't want to do ever for one second with this journal was like, that's why my focus is always that, yes, life is hard, and yes, you have been through hard things and also you've had lovely people in your life, or you've done lovely things for yourself or just struggled through something. And you should be so proud of that. And it doesn't mean for a second that it didn't suck. And you should have never had to. Yeah. So it's something that I'm very conscious of not wanting to do, I guess.
Doree: I love that perspective on gratitude. And you've articulated a lot of, I think the things that I always kind of bugged me, but I couldn't quite figure out why. So thank you for articulating that. Amanda, we do like to wrap by asking our guests about their skincare routine. Do you have a skincare routine? And what is it?
Amanda: Do you know that that's been so recent for me for a very long time I was the person that maybe wouldn't even remember to wash my face.
Kate: I can relate. I can relate
Amanda: Like at all. But in the last couple of months, this is how recent I mean, I have been doing the two days on two days off with using a lot of Sunday Riley products. And so doing the it's chemical exfoliant and then some sort of serum that does something delicious to my skin,
Kate: A retinol perhaps.
Amanda: Yes. Yes. A retinol. That is exactly what I've been, yes. And so doing that and then doing the retinol and then two days of just washing my face and nothing else, and then going back on. And it made such a big difference that then I was super annoyed with myself that I haven't been doing a skincare routine. Cause I was like, oh, wait a second. I see that this is actually effective. Well crap annoying.
Doree: Oh my gosh.
Kate: So annoying how that happens.
Amanda: It's very annoying that all these people that were right about how you're supposed to take care of your skin.
Kate: We do what we can though. You come around, you come to it. When you come to it. If you do ever, it's fine. Amanda, this has been so wonderful to get to talk to you. We're just so grateful to have this time with you. Can you tell our listeners where they can find you online and where also of course they can get, You Already Have the Answers.
Amanda: I would love to. I'm still very much on Twitter for now. We'll see what happens. So that's @AmandaDeibert on Instagram It's @AmandaDeibertOfficial. I have a website that's AmandaDeibert.com. And then You Already Have the Answers is available for pre-order any of your favorite bookstores, but also Amazon just basically anywhere that you get books.
Doree: Well, thank you again. This is really fun.
Amanda: Thank you,
Kate: Doree. I think one thing I really love about our conversation with Amanda is that she's someone who I've met IRL, but I've never gotten the chance to dig deep like we did today. I feel like that's a real gift of getting to do this podcast. I mean, I've dug deep into you for the past five years, but we, it's fun to get to intimately dig in with people that on this kind of acquaintance friendly level, you know what I mean?
Doree: Yeah, for sure. Sure.
Kate: Especially someone who, I just appreciate the way that she has used the internet for good in such a powerful way. I really believe she is the true internet superhero of our time. She's really used it for such good things.
Doree: Totally.
Kate: All right. Well listen, Doree, last week you had to get through a busy week here in the intention zone and it's post Thanksgiving, but we're now in this wild holiday rush. Everything can be very intense right now. I would love to know what your intention is for this week, and also of course, how did last week go getting through your busy week? Sorry.
Doree: Well, so we're on the last day of it, and I actually have plans again tonight. I'm playing poker and I am a little bit like woo
Kate: Yeah, you are really socializing.
Doree: Yeah. And I'm realizing that when this comes out, actually next week, so the first full week of December, I again have a packed week of a dinner of this, of that. It's just like, oh, I just looked at my calendar. I'm like, oh my God, I'm going out four nights of that week, what is happening? And then there's just one more week and then my son is off school. Then it's like we're in break time. So then the year is over. It's just what is happening. So I don't know. I'm feeling very much stressed out about the year being over and just, I dunno. Although you know what I haven't mentioned, although people who follow me on Instagram might know this already, I've gotten back into puzzling.
Kate: I noticed if you listen to our gift guide, Doree has some great puzzle recommendations.
Doree: Oh yeah, that's right. I do. Yeah. I have this puzzle table and it had been in Matt's office kind of buried under all this crap. And Matt finally cleaned out his office and I was like, Hey, where's that puzzle table? And he's like, oh, it's folded up back here. And I was like, I'm gonna put in my office. So I put it in my office and I've been puzzling. It's very relaxing. Anyway, okay, so this week, this is an interesting one. I've started, I think I mentioned that I play tennis now a couple times a week. I play this live ball which is just very fast paced and very fun. But I'm definitely in the bottom 50%, if not bottom, like 25% in terms of skill. It's an intermediate thing, which I think there's a very wide range of intermediate.
Kate: What does that really mean?
Doree: What does that really mean? And today I played after live ball, I played with three of the women just like we just hit. And I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna have to serve. I can't really serve. And that was really stressful. And they were all super nice about it. And I did get a little bit better as it went on, but I was like, oh my God, I'm so embarrassed. This is so bad. They're, they're not gonna invite me to play again. I was just really spiraling about it. And then at the end, one of the women was, so next time we should all get coffee after. And I was like, okay. Oh, they don't,
Kate: Theyre not judging you.
Doree: No, no. They're very supportive. And I was talking to one of the other women and she was like, I just started playing again and she's really good. And she's like, I just started playing again in January. I hadn't played in 20 years and now I, and I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, okay. So my intention this week is to not get stressed out about not being as good at tennis as some of the other people there.
Kate: That's a really good intention. It's so funny that you're talking about this cuz I had a similar conversation with my dad about his pickleball group. This feeling of when we're playing these sports that are kind of recreational, but you're playing with people who are really good and you don't do as well as them or as well as you want to. How we still can channel those feelings of shame or not being good enough. And that's really intense.
Doree: Yeah, totally.
Kate: Yeah. My pickle ball coach says, there's no saying sorry in pickle ball. Oh, that's what Roland says.
Doree: Okay.
Kate: Okay.
Doree: Kate, what about you? Well, I mean, I guess you can't really say how cruising went because you haven't actually gone yet.
Kate: No, I can't speak to what being on a cruise is like yet, but I will tell you all about it when I get back. I mean, I will say I have been in the group for the cruise and I think a lot of people are posting those upside down pineapples, letting people know what's what. You know, I'm saying Lori, I'm in the Facebook group.
Doree: Oh, I sure do
Kate: Know. You know what I'm talking about. So I'm very excited to see what this cruise is like. So this week I have been going through, as listeners have heard, I have kind of just been figuring out fitness and what feels good for my body. I've stopped going to the gym I was going to, I'm trying to really kinda slow down. But one thing I really would like to get into is walking, jogging, A combination of both. I don't have big plans to be as if you've been following along lately. And I had a moment where I was gonna run the Boston Marathon. I don't think I'm have big plans to become a runner, but I do wanna kind of walk, jog.
Doree: Yes.
Kate: But I would like to get out and walk every day as much as I can just to get outside. I've been having some real kind of seasonal depression and I think getting out in the sunshine would be helpful. So that's what I'm gonna try to do this first week at last week of November, first week of December.
Doree: Sounds great.
Kate: Thanks. I'm trying. I'm trying.
Doree: All right everyone. Thanks for listening. Forever35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir and Kate Spencer, and produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager, our network partner is Acast. Talk to you all again real soon. Bye.