Episode 231: Pop Culture As Self-Care with Kristen Meinzer & Jolenta Greenberg
“
Embrace the chaos. Welcome things not going right, and hopefully you can have fun with that.”
- Kristen Meinzer & Jolenta Greenberg
Kate and Doree rethink their summer skincare as the weather gets hotter. Then, Kristen Meinzer and Jolenta Greenberg of By The Book return to the pod to discuss their new podcast Romance Road Test, the soothing-nature of pop culture as self-care, and how embracing a little chaos invites some of the best moments into your life.
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Transcript
Kate: Hello, welcome to 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Kate Spencer,
Doree: And I am Doree Frier
Kate: And together we are not experts.
Doree: We are not, but we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: Okay. So let's knock it out. Friends. Our website's forever 35 podcast.com. You can get links to everything we mentioned there. You can find our Twitter account at forever 35 pod. Our Instagram at forever 35 podcast. There's a Facebook group where the password to enter is serums. You can shop our favorite prods in a very beautifully curated shelf formation at shop my do us slash I, our newsletter 35 podcast.com/newsletter.
Doree: And you can call or text us at (781) 591-0390. And you can email us at forever five podcast, gmail.com.
Kate: Now that we've said all that, we've got more to say.
Doree: We have so much to say
Kate: We have some exciting things that are happening. If you do not yet know, we have a beautiful merch collabo with the wonderful folks at balance bound. And this is the moment we've all been waiting for. We Doree and I Doree and me ,us. And also, hopefully, maybe some of you
Doree: Doree and I
Kate: Did I say it right? You were right Doree. And I I've been waiting for, I always have to in my brain,
Doree: I know, say
Kate: Put the thing first, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative> do, what do we have in this beautiful me collab for
Doree: Kate. We have a journal. We have note, we have one that is for today's intentions.
Kate: Mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>
Doree: We have one that says reframe the narrative. We have one that says it's a lot, which like, honestly it is.
Kate: And that one's a beautiful todo list with little circles. So you can check everything else that you do.
Doree: We have a quotable pencil set, like, are you
Kate: Uses,
Doree: Are you gonna use the, this has been a journey pencil, or are you gonna use the, sometimes it's just not that deep pencil or basically
Kate: Every time I pull a pencil, it's you talking to me?
Doree: I love that for you.
Kate: <laugh> that's one of the pencils.
Doree: Um, you can also put a reframe the narrative sticker on your computer. We have sticky notes. This has been a journey and my personal FA the Dorees hotel welcome kit.
Kate: Now, if you're a new listener to the podcast, go back and find where at some point in the pandemic, we kind of lost it and started doing like ASMR hotel fantasies.
Doree: It was like, we can't go anywhere.
Kate: Yep.
Doree: And I am just gonna talk about my fantasy of where I would go if I could go somewhere
Kate: And we call these do hotels and we've done quite a few of them now, and we've been to like the countryside. I feel like we've been, there's been like a, a hunky baker. I mean, there are characters it's really, you know, we haven't done one in a while. We might need to revisit it as the autumn leaves change color. There could definitely be like a leaf peeing Doree hotel.
Doree: Ooh, I would love that honestly.
Kate: Well, you can take your trip to your own Doree hotel with this kit, which has a very beautiful notepad, a set of matches and an amazing do hotel key chain, like an old school hotel room, key chain.
Doree: And don't forget that the manager of the hotel is none other than Kate H Spencer
Kate: That's right. Contact me for reservation <laugh>. And any other questions you might have? Yes. This is just, you know, just if you want something functional, beautiful, but also that has an inside joke reference to this podcast. This merch is for you. You can tell we're very excited about it. I think we are very
Doree: Excited that it's all, it's all in balance bound website. The direct is balance bound.co/shop/five. Um, yeah, SOTU it on over there and check it out. Oh, I also do just wanna mention, unfortunately right now they can only ship to the us and Canada. They are a two woman operation. They're a small business and the cost and ha honestly, hassle of shipping internationally is just too much for them at this present juncture. But, you know, hopefully that will change at some point in the future. So, but you know, talking about Doree hotel is a good segue into talking about, oh my gosh. Um, the little trip that we want to take with
Kate: All of
Doree: You, well, not
Kate: All you wanna do a, a real life Doree hotel. That's what essentially this could be.
Doree: I mean, honestly like fantasize, like my, all my fantasies coming true.
Kate: Just gonna get to meet Doree. You're gonna have one of those pencils in our hair as we embark on a journey. So the gist is that we have been in the talking stage with a company that kind of organizes small trips or excursions, um, with podcasters authors, influencers, you know, the type. And so we're just doing a survey to see if this is something that our listeners would be interested in. And, uh, we will link to that survey in the show notes. We really appreciate you taking, I guess it really helps us actually figure out if this is something that people would wanna do. That is an investment. People are interested in making, um, and where they might wanna go. How long, what time of year, et C. Arah
Doree: What you might wanna do. Yeah. You wanna
Kate: Trip? Do you wanna hike? What
Doree: Is it? Yeah. Like how are you the type that wants to pack in like five museum visits and, you know, historical sites and all that stuff? Or are you the type that just wants to like maybe do a restorative yoga class and, and relax. I mean, I know where I, I fall on that spectrum
Kate: <laugh> yeah. Hint, hint. It's the latter. I mean, probably for both of us. So if you, if you're interested, even if you don't have, this is not like any sort of commitment, we don't know if this is really gonna happen, but this is we're in the beginning stages and we would love to get more info from you and get your thoughts. Ooh. Can you imagine after this whole freaking pandemic too, like the, I mean, just, it would be so amazing to get, to finally interact with listeners of the show. I RL that hasn't happened
Doree: Much. I, I know, I know it would be really, really cool.
Kate: Well, you know, Doree, one thing I kind of have been thinking about lately and I, I posed this to you over the old text message. It's so hot here right now that I almost don't wanna wash my face. Like I I'm at the point where I don't know if it's the heat or just that I'm trying to kind of reign it in a little bit, but something about summer skincare is not conducive to like 50 steps. My summer skincare is almost just my moisturizer sunscreen combo and then at night splashing water on my face. And I don't know, does the heat have the same kind of effect on you when it comes to your skincare?
Doree: Um, you know, I will say I'm fortunate enough now to have central air, but I do remember when I lived in New York, um, I bef the, the most recent apartment I lived in before I moved to LA had window units and it did not have any air conditioning in the bathroom. And I just remember, like the bathroom was so hot and steamy and sticky that like, I didn't, yeah. Skincare was like, what? No, I it's just so just felt so gross. Um, but yeah, the heat just drains me of motivation in a major way. So I see how this also extends to skincare.
Kate: Yeah. I maybe that's what I'm feeling, where it's, it's hot. And I also, I think something sometimes about, excuse me, emerging into the heat with stuff on your face and that it all kind of like dribbles into the eyes. I mean, forget even makeup. Makeup is not even a, an option. I mean, I don't wear makeup on a daily basis anyway, but in the moments where I might put some on, I'm just skipping it all together.
Doree: Yeah. I hear that.
Kate: Do you have, do you have summer skincare prods?
Doree: Well, I feel like my, my routine just kind of goes down to bare bones in the summer. That's what
Kate: I'm doing. Yes.
Doree: So I'm, I'm usually just like in the morning, I'm putting on the clog anti pollution jelly toner, which I've mentioned on this podcast previously. And then I am using the skin fix barrier plus skin barrier, skin barrier, restoring gel cream.
Hmm. And which I really like, it's a nice light moisturizer, you know, I love a gel cream. I've, I've set that on this podcast before. Oh yeah. And then I'm just putting on sunscreen. Um, one that I've been using that I like that's been in the rotation is the hero super light sunscreen, which has SPF 30. Um, I also shot my shelf also sent me, like, I have discount codes for, for hero and skin. If anyone cares that if you use code Doree 15, you get 15 at both of those sites. And at I'm kind doing the same. I'm also sometimes putting on the Kip beauty Elixer and then putting on my, um, skin fix. Oh my God. What is the name of it? Triple.
Kate: Triple barrier.
Doree: Yeah. Triple
Kate: It's like a little bit of a tongue twister
Doree: Barrier plus triple lipid peptide cream, which is an old standby that I stand by
Kate: Doree still
Doree: Standing
Kate: And still
Doree: Standing by. And I will, I will, sometimes I, I do usually try to put on some eye cream just to get a little moisture up in there, some extra moisture, you know, that I'm generally kind of like side I E about eye cream. But like, I do like to just moisturize a little bit. So I've been using the Tacha Pearl, uh, eye cream. Oh,
Kate: That's like light one.
Doree: Oh, I was gonna say it's like very luxurious.
Kate: It is, but I mean,
Doree: It's quite thick.
Kate: Oh, you find it heavy. That's so, well, I put, I have to
Doree: Tell you not heavy, but like rich it's I find it very rich.
Kate: I was using this almost like thick, oily balm on my eyes as I, as eye cream. And I went to the dermatologist the other day and she was like, you have Melia. Like she, she popped out two Milias on my eyelid.
Doree: Whoa.
Kate: And yeah. And suggest it's possible. They, these little pores were getting clogged because of a heavier eye cream. And I was like, dun dun
Doree: Interesting. Mm-hmm
Kate: <affirmative> those hurt coming out too. Melia. Those are not fun.
Doree: I've never had them like removed
Kate: Re have you. I've never tried to dig one out yourself. I mean, not recommended obviously, but have you ever done that?
Doree: No, I don't. I don't do I have Melia? I don't know. <laugh> what I, you know what? They're like the little bumpy things. The
Kate: They're white,
Doree: They're
Kate: Teeny hard white essentially cysts that form. I, I always get them on my face, especially around my eyes. Google is telling me they're also known as milk cyst, which is a terrible name.
Doree: I feel like I used to have some under my eyes and I don't anymore. Well, look at you. Where did they go? I wonder, I wonder.
Kate: Hmm. I don't know. But they, they came, they were, you know, they were struggling to get out, but they came out well, I'll tell you, I have kind of shifted what I'm using on my face right now. I think because it's summer where I'm like, basically not putting anything on, I'm washing my face with the herbivore pink cloud, rose water and Trella creamy jelly cleanser, which is a mouthful.
Doree: Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Kate: Then I'm using this toner that was sent to us that I am liking quite a lot. It's called so prima, foundational face mist.
Doree: Okay.
Kate: It's hypochlorous acid. That's basically the, the main ingredient in it. And it's an extremely fine mist. I find it very soothing and refreshing it. Doesn't dry my skin out. It's been really nice. So thank you to them for sending it. I've been enjoying it in the morning. I've been using the glow recipe. Vitamin C, gotta tell you. I'm not gonna buy it again. Not gonna
Doree: Oh, okay.
Kate: It just, to be honest, it didn't feel like at my level, like I need a harder worker.
Doree: Okay. You felt like I was a little, little too benign. It was a little too relaxed. It was
Kate: Just like, yeah, it was just, it's beautiful. I loved the smell. I love the sensation. I loved, I, I enjoyed the application, but I didn't really feel there was actual kind of any shift in anything. So I'm gonna say goodbye.
Doree: Mm
Kate: R I P to my relationship with that,
Doree: That stuff. Good glow recipe.
Kate: And then I've just been slapping on the cool water cream, which has an SPF, cuz I just can't the thought of, of putting on a moisturizer and then a sunscreen for whatever reason is exhausting me. So I'm using this cool water cream and then at night I'm using the Tacha water cream and that's it, which is normally my daytime. Oh, moisturizer.
Doree: Okay.
Kate: And I should say the cool is called refreshing water cream sunscreen. It has PF 50 in it. I, I like it quite a lot. Um, and just the ease of like, I don't have to deal with two. I know like that's quote unquote better, but you know what? I don't give, I don't give a rat. I don't give a rats.
Doree: Don't give a rats, but I
Kate: Don't. So yeah, I don't, I don't. And even at night I'm not doing any serums. Like I just am like, Ugh, I just don't feel like it. And I know that's fine, but I just was wondering if it's attached to the weather.
Doree: That is fine. I'm sure it is attached to the, oh, the other thing that I will say is I've taken a break from retinols and ahas, um, in these summer months because of the sun,
Kate: I more or less have two I'm using them like once every other week, maybe. Are you doing anything other than what you mentioned, right? Like, no, we're, we're basically serum free at this point.
Doree: Yeah. Just, well, partly, I mean just the sun in general here is very strong, but then also I play, you know, I play tennis.
Kate: Oh I know.
Doree: And you know, even though I wear sunscreen and I have a hat, like I do think that like if, if I put a retinol on the night before, it's like not great for my skin. Yeah. So I'm really trying to take it easy, especially because I had that laser treatment.
Kate: Oh my gosh.
Doree: Do
Kate: I forgot about the lasers?
Doree: Yeah. I had like age spots lasered off. And so if I now spend the summer just like sitting in the sun, I'm gonna have more of those and yeah,
Kate: I completely forgot about that. Hmm. Forgot. You were a laser girl.
Doree: I'm a, I'm a laser girl. <laugh> IM
Kate: A laser girl. I dunno. Why, where are these words? Where are these names coming from? I've gotta reign it in here. I,
Doree: No.
Kate: Well, listen. I know, uh, we're not gonna talk about this today, but I did just wanna give you, I mean, and our listeners, a little preview of what's to come in my life. I'm starting pickleball lessons in a few weeks.
Doree: <laugh> I'm excited for you
Kate: And I have to buy court shoes. So if you have any thoughts on pickleball shoes, let me know. I can't wear my sneakers. According to my new pickleball teacher,
Doree: You just get tennis shoes, right?
Kate: Yeah. I think it's just tennis shoes. Like tennis sneakers.
Doree: Yeah. Okay. Um, I have tennis shoes. You can get them if you wanna try them on in person. I recommend the racket doctor in Atwater.
Kate: Oh thank you, Doree. Okay. Thank you. Little local Los Angeles. Uh, doctor excited to try. I'm excited to start pickleball. I teased my dad all last summer because he was so obsessed with pickleball and this summer I'm following his footsteps.
Doree: I'm so into this. This will be so fun.
Kate: Well, should we shift to our guests for today?
Doree: Let's do that.
Kate: We have repeat customers coming back on the, if you can, if you ever wanna call a podcast guest repeat customers, we're joined today by Kristen Meinzer and Jolenta Greenberg You probably already know them because they are prolific podcasters. They co-host the podcast by the book together. They also host many other podcasts on their own. I mean, Kristen's a, a podcast expert. She's written a book on it. She count consults on it. So they're here today to talk about their new podcast, which is called romance road test. And it's exactly what it sounds like.
Doree: Yeah. They really like, they basically put their own relationships through various. They put it through the paces, um, of like trying to sort of figure out like what makes a relationship romantic, how to, how to spark romance in a relationship and how to like re spark romance in a relationship.
Kate: Yeah. Which I have to admit, like it was a little, it was, I don't wanna say stressful, but it's extremely vulnerable. They both, their partners very vulnerable are on the podcast with them. And it's not all like roses and sunshine. Like we were meant to be together forever. You know, they really dig into how to maintain and sustain, uh, a relationship with another person.
Doree: Yeah. It's really interesting. I mean, I just always enjoy talking to them, um, in general, by the book is such a great podcast. Yeah. And
Kate: By the book is a fantastic podcast. And uh, briefly, if you're not familiar with Jolenta and Kristen. Jolenta is a comedian podcaster pop culture commentator, she is a moth story slam winner. She has held a comedic residency at Pete's candy store in Brooklyn, which is a really prolific venue. Um, and she's an author. I mean, she's just amazing. And, and of course she's a co-host of by the book with Kristen and Kristen's a long time audio producer and host, and she's the head of non-fiction programming at panoply. She co-hosts when Megan met Harry, which is a Royal wedding cast and she was a, a culture producer for w N Y C. I mean, she's just, they've just done everything. They're they're both. So, um, dare I say brilliant. Mm-hmm <affirmative> thoughtful, engaging mm-hmm <affirmative> and constantly curious.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Yeah. Well, without further ado, we're gonna take a break and we will be back with Kristen and Jolenta
Doree. We love a return to the pod and we have had Kristen and Jolenta on forever 35, a I think a few, I think pre COVID, which is now like what? Three years ago? Four. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so welcome back. It's a new world. We're glad to have you here and forever 35. And as we got started last time, we're gonna ask you both again, individually for a self care practice that has been carrying you through right now. Shall we say anything big or small that you are relying on to get you through your days or weeks?
Kristen Meinzer: Yeah, I have. This is Kristen. Um, I have begun recently the practice of listening to audio books and very specifically memoirs, uh, that are being read by the author as I go on walks. And I just started this a few weeks ago and I think I've made it through eight so far because they are so delicious. Uh, and for somebody like me who normally listens to podcasts, it's an easy jump from one to the other because it's usually somebody very animated telling their personal story. And I started with Jessica Simpson's open book, uh, and the most recent one I read was Leah remedies. Wow. Uh, troublemaker. And, uh, in between I've read Roxanne, gays, hunger. I've read so many great books this way and they keep me company, they open me up to other perspectives. They make me laugh and they just make my walk so much better. So that has, uh, my self-care routine that I've been doing recently.
Kate: Oof. I've I've done both of those on audio book as well. And it's a very satisfying, there's something. I love reading a celebrity memoir, reading, listening to a celebrity memoir with them reading it. It's so satisfying.
Kristen Meinzer: Oh yeah. So delicious and so delicious. Get their voice just to get there in mm-hmm <affirmative> in Jessica Simpson's case, her tears in Leah Rey's case, her laughter like you hear it all coming through. It's beautiful.
Kate: Okay. Passing the mic to jota. No pressure here.
Jolenta Greenbe...: Okay. <laugh> wow. I know mine is maybe less poignant. Um, what's been getting me through lately is I've been binge watching what I call a lot of a turn of the century television <laugh> but that's like stuff made in the late stuff made in the late nineties and it's like really fun, fun to watch shows that are like made in the late nineties and like make it through to maybe like 2002, 2004, just to watch how technology like super evolves really quickly and how the shows deal with it. And just like, they're kind of shockingly ridiculous, even though their stuff that was on. Like when I was growing up, like I've revisited friends, will grace I've watched monk for the first time. <laugh> yeah. It's all really fun. And like I've thrown a sci-fi show in the mix. Some, uh, Stargate S two one, oh, it's really fun to see how special effects literally evolve on a show from being like mostly practical, special effects to like really bad computer animation to like kind of still like passable computer animation. It's so, so that's what I've been doing when I'm like feeling despair. I'm like, you know what? It's okay. Put on monk.
Doree: Yeah. So I have a question about this. How do you find that these shows hold up and are there things that get said or, you know, storylines that are kind of cringy now that kind of take away from the act of watching the show?
Jolenta Greenbe...: There are definitely shows that take you out of it shows that have like a good sort of internal premise tend to like really hold up. Like, like I keep mentioning monk, but it's holding up like surprisingly well, because it's mostly about his struggles with the outside world and it's very clear what his struggles are. He's like dealing with, uh, O C D and like PTSD mm-hmm <affirmative> and it's when it's sort of like pretty well thought out that those elements don't come in, but like watching will and grace has been rough at times. Like they throw around like that F word a bunch. And like there's an episode about like, will being embarrassed of Jack at the gym, cuz like he's too gay. And like, like I know it's a real struggle, but the way they address it was like quite crass, uh, for, for today's times. Um, and like there are definitely like some racial elements that come into play, especially in procedurals, like even just old law orders where it's like, wow, these depictions of these sex workers are horribly racist or like, wow. They had to pick a massage parlor again, really like it's not those definitely take you out of it and go like, wow, that is a product of the times. And the times were racist. Not that long ago. Like, like shockingly racist.
Doree: Yeah. It's kind of a mind fuck to watch all that stuff and kind of realize how much we internalized for years, you know, just all that. Yeah. Racism and sexism and homophobia <laugh>, you know, and just like the list goes on and on and on and on. Um, and it, it, it kind of just like, it doesn't make me laugh, but I think about it when, you know, I see like gen Z people being like, why, you know, why are millennials and gen X? Like why, why are, why does it take them so long to like get over, you know, all this stuff. And it's like, well, we were indoctrinated for decades. <laugh> with all this shit. So, you know, forgive us for like taking a minute to kinda like deprogram ourselves. I also
Kristen Meinzer: Point parents generation like totally.
Doree: Do you
Kristen Meinzer: Wanna look at movies from the fifties and sixties and compare? Have you seen the celluloid closet? Yeah. I mean, as, as bad as things were in the 1990s and early two thousands, they were so much worse in the, you know, 50, 60 seventies, eighties.
Doree: Totally.
Jolenta Greenbe...: Right. It's I was gonna say like part of it is jarring and depressing being like, oh my gosh, this is what I grew up with. Like every day, this is what we thought was fine for network television. Yeah. But it's also nice to be like, wow. As an adult, I can look at that and quite easily be like, that's bullshit. And totally like not how the world works or like, wow, that's some blatant sexism and be like, oh, it's nice that like, even though I was like fed it, like all the time, I, you know, am still able to think for myself and we're all able to be like, Ooh, that's cringy. Um, so it's both like disheartening and like a little heartening mm-hmm <affirmative>
Doree: Yes. Yes.
Kate: I, I like that. There's also a pop culture element to both your self care practices right now, kind of a, a celebrity pop culture element almost which I find, I don't know, just appealing and intriguing kind of the revisitation or just that the storytelling aspect and how comforting that can be to just experience someone else's story, whether it's, you know, fiction and a TV show or like Leah remedy getting out of Scientology, it's all very kind of comforting in a way.
Jolenta Greenbe...: Yeah.
Kristen Meinzer: Yeah. Um, to go back to what Dylan was saying, willing take away, I mean, as dated as we see that show is now for certain people in America, it did make them feel seen. Yeah. And certain people in America, um, felt that those characters were their friends. And there have been so many studies that indicate that people who we see as our friends, they open our minds, that more people who professed being homophobic in the past became less. So because they watched will and grace, as problematic as it was, these are my friends on TV.
Jolenta Greenbe...: Right. It was still, yeah. And it was still breaking barriers at the time. It was still showing like, you know, romantic, gay kisses on network TV for the first time and stuff like that, that, so, you know
Kristen Meinzer: Yeah. So yeah, it it's, it, it, I, I guess I would just say sometimes celebrities do kind of feel like our friends.
Kate: Well, I mean, you make an interesting point. Totally. Because podcasters feel like friends. I know that true. We've Doree. And I have talked about this both on the podcaster side and the podcast listener side. Um, and I'm sure you've also experienced that from, from both sides. I mean, you're prolific podcasters, but I know you also both listen.
Kristen Meinzer: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Jolenta Greenbe...: Oh totally.
Kristen Meinzer: Yeah. I totally have my podcasters who I'm like, God, I know it would be weird, but I would love to just reach out to them and like, say, Hey, let's grab a cocktail sometime. And then I'm like, no, that is weird. That actually is weird.
Jolenta Greenbe...: <laugh> right. I can't, you're like I could just cold call him and be like, no, no, no. I make podcast too. We've never, ever met. I just listened to you. I like binged your show during a rough time. So like we connected,
Kate: Uh, well, that kind of brings me to my next question because I wanna talk about what inspired you motivated. You gave you the courage to share about your romantic relationships on your new podcast. Because I personally think that requires an immense amount of vulnerability, and I know you've already been vulnerable on by the book, but this on your new show, romance road test. Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about it? And I would love to know like how, how did you come to the decision to do it? How did your partners get on board and what did it feel like putting yourself out there in this new way?
Jolenta Greenbe...: Well, our new show, uh, romance road test is sort of a natural progression from, by the book where we live by self-help advice and our partners are in it from time to time, uh, because you know how we live our day to day life, like does technically affect them, um, often negatively. Um, and people love listening to the dynamic of how advice affects like a whole relationship, not just the individual. So we were like, let's take that further and look at relationship advice and test it out, uh, with our partners and see if it enhances things makes us feel closer, makes us feel more in love. Or if it, you know, drives us nuts and highlights all the things we already know, we like hate about them and makes us have a fight. <laugh> and there's so much relationship advice out there that all like, sounds like a pretty good idea, you know, but have we tried it like when you apply it, does it work universally we're only a sample size of two relationships, but like let's give it a shot.
Doree: Yeah. I mean, you've been doing by the book now for five years.
Kristen Meinzer: Oh gosh. I, we, we are, are in our 10th season now we're launching our 10th season right now. Yeah. So, wow. Um, yeah, it's been, oh gosh. Over five years.
Jolenta Greenbe...: Yeah. A little bit over five years. And to, to being vulnerable with our relationships, like, I mean, I feel like we're just lucky, uh, my partner, he loves activities so much. I feel like it was worth the trade off for him to be recorded doing them because it would be like an activity every weekend, like a date or, you know, trying something on like let's do it. So, um, he was very game and, um, I don't wanna speak for Kristen and our partner, but I'm pretty sure he kinda loves, uh, being on air or being on Mike.
Kristen Meinzer: He does. He does. He's the only one amongst the four of us who is not a professional podcaster. He has a day job working with computers. He's a computer programmer, um, computer scientist. And when he's with us, when he's recording, he feels like a star. He loves it. He loves being on a microphone, <laugh> he, he, he, um, he just gets such a kick out of it. And, uh, I, I, it totally cracks me up because, um, yeah, it's not a field he ever wanted to work in. He didn't wanna ever be hosting shows or anything, but, uh, the listeners also really love him. And I think part of that's because he has a very sweet personality, but part of it's also because he has a New Zealand accent. So people are like, oh, he's so adorable. <laugh> totally. And he loves being told, he's adorable, who doesn't,
Doree: You've been doing this podcast for five years. Your partners have been very present on the show. Um, so, you know, I guess the four of you are sort are used to being Guinea pigs to some extent by now, but this is sort of a different thing. Um, and I'm curious, like how have you found this new podcast to be different from, by the book in terms of what it has brought up for you and your partners?
Kristen Meinzer: Well, in some ways it's much more intimate. I mean, um, we're following advice that has us doing things like reading smut to each other, going to romance, hotels, having sex every day for a week. Um, you know, there's that physical side of things, but then there's also the emotional side of things doing the 36 questions with each other while recording the question and answer to every single one. Um, doing things like, um, in some cases, crying with each other on the show, in some cases fighting, you know, some people might say that assembling flat pack furniture with your partner brings you closer together, but that might not be the case for all of us. <laugh> um, uh, some advice givers will say that, um, oh, the ultimate thing to do is to share a hobby with each other, but in the case of me and Dean, we fought the entire time.
It was terrible for us. We never want to introduce each other to our hobbies. Again, you stick to your hobby Dean. I will stick to mine. We each have our own things and, um, we will never discuss our hobbies again, that's it? So, um, yeah, it, and you know, it, it's not necessarily something that I would have just, Braly gone into hosting a podcast with Joe L where I am gonna fight on air, but because we already had the practice of being on by the book for 10 seasons. Yes. Dean and I were ready to do that. We were ready to cry on air. We were ready to fight with each other on air, but, um, that really took half a decade for us to get comfortable enough to do that. We never, would've just done this out of the blue, like, you know, five or 10 years ago.
Doree: Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Kate: Did you, did either of you kind of learn what your relationship needed? I'm, I'm kind of thinking of this through a self care lens, but did you discover anything that you felt was missing from how you nurtured your relationship and were you able to identify it and implement it?
Jolenta Greenbe...: Um, I think for my relationship, uh, which is very different in a very different place than Kristen's, um, I'm dealing with, uh, like getting diagnosed with lupus and going on like, uh, some chemo meds and stuff and sort of coming out the other side of that. And so my relationship has very much been almost, uh, like patient and caregiver with my partner at times, very much like in the present and in the future, like, how are you feeling? Where are we go? Uh, what doctor's appointments are we going to like sort of like helping plan my schedule. And so all the exercises that helped sort of get us out of that mode and remember like where that spark came from and almost like go down memory lane tend, uh, tended to really help bond us. Um, like one of the activities is to reenact your first date.
And, um, that was just so much fun for us. And we, you know, ate the same frozen pizza. We watched the same thing. Like, it was just fun to reminisce about like what made us fall for each other. And even, uh, we did a dreaded task together. Um, and while Kristen assembled furniture, my partner and I, we cleaned out like a little deep storage unit in our basement. And even that, like, we found a few little artifacts from when we first got together or like, this was from like our third year anniversary, this picture that we've have in storage, but just things that were reminded us like, oh right. We like find each other sexy and like, there's a spark and it's not just about like taking care of business and like taking care of health.
Doree: I loved, I loved the first date, um, reenactment, and it made me think about the, my first date with my husband. And it's, it's true. It does bring you back to this very, you know, innocent time. Right. <laugh> when, like everything felt so new and fun. Um, so I really enjoyed kind of listening to the reenactments. Um, I'm curious as you were doing this whole, um, this whole podcast, what did you learn about your partners or I guess about your relationship also that surprised you?
Kristen Meinzer: I was surprised, um, on the 36 questions episode right out of the gate, because the very first question that Dean answered, the first question is, um, if you could have dinner with anyone living or dead, who would you choose? And his first answer just made me cry and cry and I'm like, that's it it's success. I fell in love with him.
Jolenta Greenbe...: <laugh>
Kristen Meinzer: Don't need to do the, the 35 questions at worked at worked. But, um, I guess it surprised me how well he knew me and how well he could predict what I needed in the moment. And I already know that he is a wonderful man. I already know that he's everybody's biggest cheerleader. I know that he already walks through the world with kindness, but I, I guess I sometimes forget how well he knows me because we're two separate beings. We're two separate entities and that's part of what makes life with each other. Fantastic. Because we're still mysteries, you know, there are things going on in his head that I'll never know and vice versa, and it's great to have that, but it's also great to be reminded. Like he knows me intimately so much so that he can say what I need at a time when I didn't even know that's what I needed to hear. And that was really lovely to find out during this show.
Kate: I mean, you kinda that, oh, that idea of, I know, I think that kind of ties into Joel into what you were talking about, about the caregiver role. I don't know if I see, I might see a connection that I might also just be trying to jam two things together, but I think it's really interesting to see our partners see us, you know, like those moments where you're like, oh, I, oh, oh, you do get it. Or like, you did see what I needed here. And often that,
Jolenta Greenbe...: Yeah. You know what I need, like before I do, or like right when I do. And like, oh, like, that's so kind of like in a weird way, like magical and sweet, even if it's about, you know, day to day stuff.
Kate: Did you have a similar experience Jo? Of like,
Jolenta Greenbe...: Um, yeah, I was gonna say it was similar, not as like prolific as Kristen's, but in the, uh, 36 questions, actually, it was the first thing that came to mind. Something that surprised me was one of the questions was like, when did you last sing? And to, to whom? And we were both like, oh, probably earlier today to you. And we were like, oh, we sing all the time. We're either singing songs. We both know, uh, uh, like sharing a song, like one of us knows and the other doesn't making up songs like about each other about our dog. And we had never thought about it. And we were like, oh my gosh, that's so cute of us. Like, <laugh> not to not to be braggy, but like, that's kind of adorable. We sing all the time to each other. Oh, a sweet surprise. Not as prolific as like he knows my deep soul, but like he does know how to like hit a good tenor note. <laugh>
Kate: We're also, we are also a household. That's always singing, always singing in public. Yes. Like it we're, it's, it's such a weird part of our family dynamic that I don't, I forget other families probably aren't doing it, but I'm glad to know that yours is because that makes me feel seen.
Jolenta Greenbe...: Good. I'm glad to know yours is
Kate: <laugh> nonstop.
Jolenta Greenbe...: Someone else is walking down the street being like, and I told you so literally
Kate: Like my, my husband's been singing some of the same songs daily for years that now my kids know. I mean, it's, it's wild. Yeah. Yep. It's a whole thing.
Jolenta Greenbe...: Ugh. I love it. I'm so glad other people deal with that. Do you? But yeah, it's kind of fun to remember like, oh, that's special to us a
Kate: Little bit. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. All right. We are back.
Doree: I am curious, like, based on what you learned from doing this podcast, like what advice would you give people who maybe feel like they're stuck in a romance rut with their partners?
Kristen Meinzer: Well, I think it's okay to sometimes be in ruts. First of all, there's no shame in that. I think sometimes people feel ashamed and shame is not a, an especially useful emotion. In my opinion, shame can just lead to more self-recrimination and it can lead to not addressing or, you know, trying to come up with a remedy for the situation. So first and foremost, no shame there. We all have our ups and downs. My mother once told me that sometimes ruts will last for days or weeks. And in some cases they'll last for years, but that's like part of life is unsexy as it sounds. So, first of all, no shame. And second of all, um, try a few different things. What works for one person isn't necessarily going to work for another. So maybe you love this thing and your spouse doesn't for example, I loved doing my husband's grooming.
I felt like I was like working in a hair salon doing his hair and he felt miserable with it. He hated it. So maybe it'll work for you, but not for your partner or maybe it'll work for that person. You listen to on a podcast in their partner, but it won't work for you guys. And that's totally fine too. Try a few different things. And remember if the advice doesn't work for you, it doesn't mean that you're broken. It might just mean the advice doesn't work for you. And that's totally fine. There's lots of advice out there that only works for some people. Um, some people say wake up early every day and do this with your spouse, but you know what? I hate waking up early. You don't have to do everything that everybody tells you to do have some fun, figure it out, laugh a lot and be okay with the fact that we're all unique flowers. And that means we all need to be cared for differently.
Doree: Before we wrap. Could you
Kate: Tell us your thoughts on maintaining a self care practice in a relationship? Is there anything that you do with your partner that you would consider be like benefiting or contributing to the self care of that partnership? And we, we talk about it so much on the show as individuals, but I'm trying to think about it in terms of how we do it in relationships. And if that's even a thing mm-hmm, <affirmative>,
Jolenta Greenbe...: I, I have like a small thing where my husband and I, when we're sort of zoning out in the evening, or like on a, on a weekend and watching TV, we like to also play cards, like play gin while we're watching TV. So it forces us to like check in a teeny bit with each other. Sometimes we'll be like, it's your turn? And also like, can you believe what he just said? <laugh> like, you know, it helps us sort of remember we're with each other and forces us to interact a bit while we're just sorting out and relaxing. So I'd like to think that's like a small moment of self-care or like, you know, a small moment of like forced connection. That feels nice. <laugh>
Kristen Meinzer: As far as me and Dean. And self-care one thing that I think works really well for us is to have separate lives. He and I have certain friends that cross over, but we also have separate friends. And we also sometimes, you know, just occupy separate spaces. Sometimes at night we don't even sleep in the same bed because one of us, both of us snore really badly, but one of us might not be able to sleep because the other snoring and that separateness helps keep us sane and, um, happy. And it's not a bad thing. And I think that a lot of people are under the impression that must be together all the time. When you really love a partner, you never wanna be apart from them. And it's like, no, it's totally fine to be apart from them. That's okay. And for me and Dean, um, I, I do think it makes us happier and frankly, more interesting people to other
Kate: Time apart too. Yes. I know for me, sometimes
Doree: I so important to remember. Let's take a, yeah, let's take a,
Kate: Let's take a little break.
Kristen Meinzer: Let's take two, two days
Doree: Off. Especially, especially coming out of the pandemic when so many people were, oh my
Kate: God.
Doree: With partners for long time. Um, I know we're, I know we're about to wrap, but I I'm curious if you have any advice for people who are not partnered mm-hmm <affirmative> um, but perhaps are seeking partners. Um, is there anything that you've kind of learned in this, this journey, um, that you would advise people who are either seeking or going into a new relationship?
Jolenta Greenbe...: You never know when you're making memories. So like try to stay nice while you're evaluating, like the person you're on a date with cuz there are some time, like the first time my husband and I hooked up, he like, we joke about it, but it's like part of the memory is I like kicked him out of my apartment at 4:00 AM and he was like the trains aren't running. And I'm like, I don't care, bye. Like <laugh> like, and that's part of our lore forever now. So just like, remember, you know, obviously be discerning, but like remember to keep it nice and like maybe a little sweet, cuz you never know if you're making a lasting memory or not. <laugh>
Kristen Meinzer: I was gonna say something that kinda is related to what you're saying jota, but um, it might be a different spin on it. I think that when things go wrong, some of the best memories happen. And so don't over fixate on everything being perfect. You don't have to look perfect. The date doesn't have to be perfect. Not everything has to go as planned. And in fact, oftentimes the things that make us laugh the hardest and feel most connected are the things that go wrong. And you'll hear when Dean and I reenact our state on romance road test, it goes very, very wrong. Things are not going right there. Um, but we laugh so much about it and it also, you know, it, it was another memory and it reminded us of other things good and bad in the past that, you know, make us a couple. So I, I would say embrace the chaos, welcome things, not going right. And hopefully you can have fun with that and make a memory.
Jolenta Greenbe...: Thanks. Ugh.
Kate: That's both such good advice. I, I really appreciated hearing that just for myself. It was great.
Doree: Yeah.
Kristen Meinzer: Well we appreciate you having us here. This has been so much fun.
Doree: Yeah. This was so fun.
Kate: I appreciate your vulnerability in a, a genuine way. You know, that's, it's it in listening to the show, it just feels very human. And I think sometimes that can, you know, be really hard to come by these days. So I appreciate it.
Jolenta Greenbe...: Well, thank you so much. Yeah. We try not to be aliens and to be human. <laugh> sorry. I ha I can't just take a compliment. <laugh> have to make it. No, that's so silly joke.
Kate: I'm the same. I get it. I'm very similar. <laugh> um, where can our listeners here? I don't wanna say both your shows because that go, you have more shows upon shows, but let's just say you have many
Jolenta Greenbe...: Shows. Yes.
Kate: <laugh> your recurring podcasts and, um, and find you and your work online.
Jolenta Greenbe...: Right? Well, romance road test is, um, an audible original. So you can find that at audible.com/romance road test, every episode's up, you can binge it, binge all the dates, hear all the messes and successes. Um, and we're also, um, by the book, you can find an, any pod catcher, wherever you listen. Um, and we're at, by the book pod on Twitter and Instagram, if you wanna like reach out to us via social media.
Kate: Well thank you again.
Doree: They're just delightful. They're delightful humans. What can
Kate: I say? It's also always fun. I think talking to two other podcast hosts. Yes. Like there's just something like, like selfishly, like kind of like, oh, look, we're talking to other USS, how fun is this? You know, like talking to other USS, oh, well I know, I know let's intention zone here because it's been hit or miss for me this week. Has it? Yeah. I just, you know, it's interesting, you know what, actually, I'm gonna take that back. It has not been hit or miss it's been informative. I think I'm going to moving forward, use intentions, not to measure success or failure, but to gather data and information about myself and my needs. Wow. Where did all this come from? You know, I just decided this, well, you know, like I said to myself, I was like, oh, I'm gonna really focus on getting, you know, 10,000 steps a day. But then like, it almost immediately became clear. There are some days I'm not going to walk 10,000 steps and like, that's fine. Like, it, it, anything that turns into a behavior for the sake of meeting, like an arbitrary number goal,
Doree: Also Kate, I will say, yes, I've read, I've been reading some stuff lately about how that 10,000 number is like kind of arbitrary.
Kate: I think I read something similar, probably like a tweet or an Instagram comment, but yes, like that's just potentially like the BMI just like made up bullshit that we've all now just kind of forced to subscribe to. So yeah, what I have been doing Doree is trying to get some nice walks in and Ooh, that has been really nice. Um, and just, I've also just kind of been noticing like when I'm, when am I moving this morning, I actually did a yoga class with one of our new sponsors. Um, and that was really nice. So I'm just trying to kind of, instead of like, just track I'm, I'm trying to be informed by how my body feels. So I don't count this week as a failure. Yeah. And I will say next week, what I am gonna try to do is my intention is commit to something that my naturopath suggested I do, which she calls adult naps, which is five minutes a day lying down on the floor with my feet up on the sofa and just resting for five minutes. It's not necessarily meditation. It's just rest. And I have a little timer set on my phone to do that, but I need to be more consistent. Cause I feel Aw, it feels amazing. I love it. And sometimes I will go for longer than the five minutes because it's feeling so good.
Doree: Well, I mean, Kate, you are, you are a certified yoga teacher, you know, all about the, the power of lifting your feet, you know, like legs up the wall, those poses and how beneficial they are. So I love, I love this.
Kate: Thank you for continuously offering up my yoga credentials. I really appreciate that you do that because it's true. I am a certified yoga teacher, but I haven't taught in approximately 12 years.
Doree: Hey, but you believe certified yoga teacher, always a certified yoga teacher is what I always say.
Kate: I can definitely use some refreshing that is for sure. But you're right. It is extremely, um, it is extremely good for the body to lift your legs. I mean, depending on what your needs are, but it can be very good for, for our body. So I'm enjoying it. It feels really good. Who knew?
Doree: I love that.
Kate: Okay. All right. How are you doing over there? Tell me what did you intent and did it, did it get tensed?
Doree: I did not find roller skating pads.
Kate: Did you look, I mean, this seems like a, an extra chore almost that if you're not in the mood to do it might not be, you know, fun to do.
Doree: I did not look, I, you know, I'm really just focusing on the hobbies that I have.
Kate: <laugh> you've got so many, you are a, a hobbyist
Doree: I'm, <laugh>, I'm a hobbyist. I mean, look, I, I just have to make time for all the things that I already have going on. And
Kate: Definitely,
Doree: You know, in addition to like work, <laugh> my job and oh boy, raising a child and like all the other stuff. So, you know, I'm trying to make time for all my things, but that also just means that I don't really have that much space in my life schedule for other stuff. That's all
Kate: I hear you.
Doree: Um, this week I have a kinda funny intention. I, um, as discussed, I have recently joined a gym and I've started buying some new workout clothes because I just like, I, my, my old, my, most of my workout clothes are from before the pandemic started and I'm just not feeling them. So I've been buying some new workout clothes. And my intention this week is to really just like embrace them, cuz they're a little more revealing than my typical garb, my typical gym garb. Okay.
Kate: You've changed your workout style a little bit. Was there a reason? Yeah. You go on,
Doree: Um, you know, I think I was influenced by seeing some other people at the gym who like have been buying workout clothes since the pandemic, just,
Kate: I that's a good feeling and cute a valid feeling like yes, lean into it,
Doree: You know? And it's
Kate: Not cute for other people. It's like cute in your own cuteness. Right? Like it's, it's, it's your feeling of cute.
Doree: Exactly. Exactly.
Kate: All right. Well, can't wait for you to model for me some 0.00
Doree: IHA. Um, okay. This has been a pleasure and I do just wanna remind everyone that forever35 is hosted and produced by me. Doree Shafrir and Kate Spencer and produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager. Our network partner is Acast and we'll talk to you all again very soon. Bye bye.