Mini-Ep 354: Just Good Scents
Kate and Doree are back, babies, and they take the live concert scene by storm where they learn that Gen Z really knows how to take a picture. Then, they hear from listeners about first-date self-care, Costco undies, and going through a friendship break-up.
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Transcript
Kate: Hello, and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I am Kate Spencer,
Doree: And I am Doree Shafrir,
Kate: And we're not experts.
Doree: No, we're not. But we're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: And this is a mini episode where we hear from you, we share your comments and thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability.
Doree: And please do remember, we're not experts, our podcast hosts, we always encourage you to seek support first and foremost, from a medical and or mental health professional as needed.
Kate: If you would like to reach us, our text and voicemail number is 7 8 1 5 9 1 0 3 9 0, or you can always email us at Forever35podcast@gmail.com.
Doree: And our website is Forever35podcast.com. We link to everything we mention on the show there, and we also have our top picks at Shopmy.us/forever35. We're on Instagram @Forever35podcast, and you can join the Forever35 Facebook group. The password there is serums. We also have a newsletter at Forever35podcast.com/newsletter. I also do just wanna mention that holiday time is coming up. If you haven't bought your Balance Bound collab merch for your bestie now is the time balancebound.co/shop/forever35.
Kate: There we go. That's we the stuff
Doree: Oh, that is the stuff. So Kate, we're recording this pre Thanksgiving pre cruise.
Kate: Yeah, yeah. Pre pre me on a cruise. I got a nice email from a listener who's a doctor who was like, I really want you to be careful on this cruise. I don't want you to get reinfected with Covid. And I was like, you and me both listener. I am with you. Oh my gosh. This is one of those risks we've decided to take so that we can spend time with family members in a way that is important to them and all the things that go into considering things right now. But I hear the concern, and I appreciate your hearing about my life and taking it all in stride. I'm a little apprehensive, but I'm gonna do my best
Doree: You know what? You just have to go with it. Be as safe as you can, but ultimately you're taking your risk and that just is what it is.
Kate: Yeah, it is. I mean, as we are writing this mean, excuse me, as we were recording this news is breaking that Harry Styles and Olivia Wilde are on a break, and it's just kind poignant timing. You and I both Harry Styles last week, so I wonder if he was tempted by our sultry dance moves and was just like, I've gotta get back out there.
Doree: That's definitely what happened.
Kate: That's the vibe you're getting, right?
Doree: Yes, totally.
Kate: I was just thinking at that. I did wear a K95 at Harry Styles and it was fine. Live music is so vital, and I think I have kinda forgotten. I know I see a lot of Phish shows, but when it comes to other bands, I feel like I kinda forgot how special it is to see artists live
Doree: Totally.
Kate: But for many of us, live music is a big, big part of just how we nourish ourselves. I mean, this is also coming in the wake of the Taylor Swift Ticketmaster debacle.
Doree: Oh my gosh, yes.
Kate: There's a larger conversation about how this ties into monopolies.
Doree: Yes, totally.
Kate: But for the sake of just kind of an innocent conversation about live music, I do think it, it's been really, it's just been so amazing to get to be with people seeing live music Again, I don't know if you feel the same way, and I saw two concerts in the last 10 days. So we're kind of really living a young person's life right now.
Doree: Yeah. I mean, I went to two concerts this week, which is bananas to me. And then someone, a friend texted me this morning was like, do you wanna go to Lizzo tonight? <laugh>? And I was like, normally, I probably would say yes, because they, someone got sick and they had an extra ticket. And I was like, but I cannot do a third concert
Kate: In a week.
Doree: Just bananas. And I am not someone who goes out that much. But yeah, I don't know. But I did, Kate, you and I went along with two other friends of ours to see Elton John last night at Dodger stadium,
Kate: So fun.
Doree: And it was so fun. It felt very special. Yeah. I mean, there is just something, I guess what I'm saying is I don't take it for granted anymore.
Kate: Yeah.
Doree: Because I wish I could say that I never took it for granted, but I totally took it for granted. Just this idea that concerts would always be there. You know? I mean, the other thing that I've been thinking about, which is a little bit more morbid, but I was talking with someone else the other day, and we were talking about bands or artists that we just never got around to seeing, and then they died. And I wanna try to see as many of those shows as I can. I it, it does get expensive, which is a problem.
Kate: No goodness. Yeah. I mean, circl circling back to that old Ticketmaster monopoly.
Doree: I was gonna say, maybe when that Ticketmaster monopoly gets broken up.
Kate: It's so obscene, so it's disgusting. It's so expensive.
Doree: But I still regret not going to see Tom Petty at the Hollywood Bowl.
Kate: Me too. I have the same exact specific concert regret.
Doree: Yes. That exact concert. I really wish I had gone. I didn't go. He died not long after that, and I never got to see him. I never saw him in concert.
Kate: Me neither.
Doree: Which is a bummer. So that was part of my motivation for wanting to go see Elton John.
Kate: Yeah. I had never seen him before, and I had the same kind of feeling of, this feels important that I get to go see this musician. I feel very lucky that I can do so. And I think also, I was talking to somebody in the early days. Oh, yesterday, not yesterday, on Thursday. I was also with you in a group of a different group of friends. And we were talking about the things that when Covid first started and we were locked down, the things that we were not allowed to do, the playgrounds were closed and we weren't allowed in here in Los Angeles. We weren't allowed to go to the beach. And I remember having this grief that what if I never get see the ocean again? And this circles in my brain a lot of that. I had never had this feeling of, oh, this thing I love that I've taken for granted my whole life.
Well, I guess I've had this feeling before, but it was this kind of, the beach is something I just like, yeah, I can go to the beach time. I live in LA and I just, this feeling of not being allowed and when would I see the ocean again and when would I smell the ocean again? It was so upsetting to me. So that even though I have forgotten that kind of initial traumatic feeling, it still comes back with stuff like this of, I do feel like being in the present, being more grateful, cherishing what we have, saying yes to things a little bit more for me is important. Because you're right. You just don't, don't know. We just don't know. And I know we learn this lesson every day, but it feels a little groundhog day. I feel like I'm always learning this.
I also just wanted to note that I found, I've seen two One Direction concerts. So I've seen Harry Styles perform before, but I know Harry's fans and the Harry Styles concert was the closest I've come to what the Phish fandom is like. And I really just wanted to give a shout out to the Harry Styles fandom because it was such a sweet, kind community where it felt really comfortable to be one's self. And I, that is something that I think is, I was so grateful that my kids got to taste that, and I found it very nourishing and nurturing. So thank you, Harry. And I mean, really, thank you. Harry's fans. I think it's his fans who really create this space.
Doree: Kate, I will say that I think Taylor's fans are also similar vibe.
Kate: I mean, I am a Taylor hardcore Taylor fan, and I would concur Doree. I haven't seen a Taylor concert since the 1989 tour, but my body is ready, my body is ready to hear Karma Live.
Doree: Yeah. Yeah. The Harry Style Show was interesting. Actually, both of it was interesting to see Harry Styles and Elton John both in the same week, because I bet I felt very old at the Harry Styles Show, and this is not really for me, you know what I mean? Harry Styles is for everyone, of course. But the show itself and the way everyone was taking selfies with the quotes painted on the columns outside the forum and all the photo ops and, I was saying to my friend, we were watching we were just, were people watching, And we saw these two women, young women, I mean, they looked like maybe teenagers or early twenties, and one was gonna take a photo of the other in front of, they had all these quotes from Harry Styles that were specifically seemed like they were meant for photo hops. And people were like, taking pictures in front of the quotes. Anyway, the woman who was going to have her picture taken, she just looked, she didn't look like depressed or anything. She just looked sort of blah as she was talking with the other woman who was gonna take the picture. And then as soon as she stepped in front of the quote, she turned it on and, did this whole pose and had this megawatt smile. And I was like, Oh Wow. Okay. Gen Z knows how to take a picture.
Kate: Oh my God. Do they ever,
Doree: It was the most wild transformation. She was like,
Kate: They know something. We don't know. We don't know this.
Doree: And just the self confidence that they admit. And I am of course not saying that, and we've talked, we've kind of touched on this before, and I'm not trying to say that no one in Gen Z has self confidence issues. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying taken as a whole, they come off as much more confident, much more comfortable with their bodies, and much better at taking pictures. It was so bananas. Anyway, so that was my experience earlier in the week. And then later in the week, I went to Ellen John. And we definitely weren't, we weren't the youngest people there, but we were, I would say we were in the younger bracket, there were a lot of boomers and maybe even older than boomers.
Kate: The greatest generation was roaming around
Doree: yea, the greatest generation. And it was also fun in its own way. And I felt maybe because that show was a stadium show, maybe just, it felt bigger. It felt a little bit more, I don't know, for everyone who was there. Yeah. I don't know. But it was just an interesting contrast. And I did wonder, is this going, what is Harry's styles going to be at 75?
Kate: Wow. Yeah.
Doree: Because Elton at, when he was Harry's age, he was doing kind of similar things as Harry.
Kate: Yes.
Doree: I don't know. It was just an in, and they're both British male vocalist. It was just an interesting juxtaposition, I guess.
Kate: Well, it's interesting to think of all this. My father was just visiting, and he is turning 71, and he attended Woodstock. And so we started watching the four hour long Woodstock documentary, which is amazing if you've never seen it. And I'd never watched it with my dad. And that was really fascinating. It was just fascinating. It was fascinating to watch all these young people, most of whom are now dead, come together to make this concert. And just see, I don't even know how to describe it. It was watching this and I was like, God, this, these were the kids. These are the boomers who right now are struggling to understand why people wanna use they/them pronouns. And this here they are in their early twenties revolutionizing the world. And it was just really, I don't know how else to describe it. It was fascinating to watch, and it was really interesting to watch with my dad.
I'm really, actually really glad I did that. Cause that's, it's a huge historical event, and it was just interesting to hear him talk about it and then watch all these musicians who at the time were not all that famous. A lot of this is when a lot of them broke out. That's so interesting to think about. It's really, really cool. If you haven't watched it. I just think, and also you're looking at it and you're like, how the fuck did these people do this without smartphones the whole time? I'm like, how the hell did any of this happen? But it did. Well, Doree, let's take a little break and when we come back we're gonna hear from some friends. Some Friends of the pod
Doree: BRB
Kate: All right. Welcome back. We received the most charming voicemail from a listener heading out on a first date.
Voicemail: Hi Kat and Dor, this Celeste just calling to say it's a Thursday night. I'm getting ready for our first date with some man from Hinge. Who cares. But I'm doing some self care by having a martini extra dirty, painting my nails, watching Love is Blind and enjoying the relaxing scent of a cozy night candle, which I have privately refered to as my horse candle, in honor of Kates horse Spencer Thank you so much for the pod. Okay. Bye bye
Kate: Okay, bye bye. My horse candle. I love, if it was truly a horse candle, it would smell very different.
Doree: Probably not. I mean, not great if we're being honest.
Kate: Well, here's a question for you, Doree. Do you have any smells that you like that most people think aren't good, but youactually like? Like the smell of horse poop is something that I'm kind of can get down with.
Doree: Oh, interesting.
Kate: Yeah. Skunks.
Doree: Really? You like the smell of skunk?
Kate: Oh, I love the smell of skunk.
Doree: Have your dogs ever been skunked?
Kate: No. So I think I wouldn't love it then. Okay.
Doree: Yeah, you would have a very different opinion.
Kate: I wouldn't love it. I know. Well, if it's really close. It's nauseating. I've had a dead skunk in front of my apartment window, and that's been bad. But gasoline, I love the smell. Glue.
Doree: Glue?
Kate: Oh, oh yeah. Rubber cement. hmmm
Doree: Do you like the smell of permanent marker?
Kate: Not as much as I like gasoline. You know what I really love is the smell of lemon dish washing liquid.
Doree: Wow. Did you used to the smell of white out?
Kate: Sure. I love all those smells. What is that? why?
Doree: I'm just thinking of like random
Kate: Nineties smells.
Doree: Yeah. Like stinky
Kate: Rubber cement. But yes. So anyway, so what I'm saying is that a candle that smells like a horse I actually might be into is kind of where I'm going with this.
Doree: I think the things that, the smells that I are very basic.
Kate: Theyr're traditional smells
Doree: I like the smell of laundry. But here's the thing. I don't like using fabric softener, but if I walk by in New York, when I would walk by an apartment,
Kate: Oh, and you can smell the laundry going
Doree: And you would smell the laundry going that I really like, even though I didn't want my own laundry to smell like that,
Kate: I know the exact experience of which you speak. And I also love that, where you're just kinda inhaling warm laundry air. Probably not the best thing to be smelling, but
Doree: Yes Exactly.
Kate: Well, listen, I just love also the idea of first date self care. That was really
Doree: Yes.
Kate: And I liked how it was preparing for yourself not getting ready for the person's enjoyment, but for your own relaxation. I really loved that.
Doree: So yeah. Nice. Okay, Kate, we got a text that someone wanted you to know. I bought the Carol Hochman Undies from Costco, and they are amazing. Thanks for the reco
Kate: So I need to branch out because I still only wear Carol Hochman underpants, and I think I need some cotton underwear. These are not cotton. These are synthetic. And I really need underwear help. I really do. I found one pair that I like from Spanks, but one pair of the Spanks underpants is six underpants at Costco. And I just was like i can't, this is, it's a lot for underpants.
Doree: Yeah. Although I do feel like underpants are one of those things that we've been kind of conditioned to not pay a lot for. And I don't wanna spend $50 on a pair of underwear. But when you think about it, how many pairs of underwear do you have in your actual rotation? I probably have 10, which means I'm wearing most of my pairs of underwear three times a month. Right? No. Right, right. Wait, hold on. Three times a month. And maybe some, I'm wearing more for various, who knows. But think about some things in your closet that you wear three times a month. There's probably a bunch of things, but there's probably a lot of things that you do not wear three times a month. You know what I mean? Yeah,
Kate: No, and I agree with you. I have a vivid memory of the Oprah Winfrey bra fitting episode, and Oprah being like, you have, we wear these bras every fucking day. You gotta spend money on a good bra. Yes. And that was a revolutionary concept.
Doree: Yes. And I actually need some new bras.
Kate: Listen, Oprah's message, the show may be gone, but her message lives on forever, but one. Okay, so one pair of spanks cotton control brief. This is the one I got that I really like $24. Now over at Costco, I can get five pairs of Carol Hochman's ladies seamless briefs for $14. So I'm struggling here. I'm struggling. Yeah. But I did these Spanks cotton ones were the first ones I found that I was like, oh, I really like these feel really good. So I dunno, somebody tell me what to do. But I'm happy that Carol Hochman is working for this listener, I guess is what I should have just said off the bat. Okay. Doree, here's one more text. Hi, Kate and Doree listening to mini ep 351. And have one more suggestion for the listener who is struggling with feelings of jealousy about her sister's different life stage. Sometimes you just have to lovingly mute the family group chat. Highly recommend! Revolutionary. Yes. Mute the family group chat.
Doree: I mean, maybe sometimes you even have to leave the family group chat.
Kate: I mean, that's a statement.
Doree: That is a statement, but I think this is probably wiser. Just to mute.
Kate: Yeah. I had someone leave the elementary school group chat, and it was just like, blah, blah, blah justleft the chat. And I was like, whoa. Oh, snap. Yeah. Okay. Bold. But I like it. You know what I like boundries.
Doree: And they just pieced out. They didn't say anything.
Kate: They just left and we were all like, okay, respect. This isn't for you. Sometimes these group chats are a lot. There's like, they're constant sometimes. And I was like, I get it. I again, respect the boundary, respect everybody's using their phone and their time and the way they want. But anyway, leave the, yeah. Mute group chat. Muting is, muting is a gift. I mean, muting Instagram. Mute, mute. Mute, mute, mute. Curate it for your own mental health. All right.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Should we take a B
Doree: Let's take a B.
All right. We have a text. Hi, Kate and Doree. Long time. First time here. I'm writing in because one of my best friends has basically dumped me because she doesn't like my husband. They've had a number of occasions where they got into aggressive debates and because of their personality types, my husband enjoys the debate. He's literally the debater on M B T I. And my friend thinks he's mean. She's now uninterested in being friends with me because my husband is "half of me". I understand that she doesn't get along with him, but it feels personal and horrible that she wants to end our friendship. Any advice on how to process this breakup? Thanks. And big virtual hugs from the Midwest.
Kate: Has she said that she wants to end your friendship, or is that just what you are gaining? I'm wondering if this is just the interpretation of the situation, or if this friend was like, I'm not interested in being friends with you because of your husband and he's half of you. I mean, I don't know. I'm gonna just take it. That is what has happened.
Doree: So do you have thoughts?
Kate: I think you just have to be hurt sometimes. We just have to be hurt. You know. I think our urge as humans is to stop the hurt. And my advice for processing the breakup is like you're just gonna have to be in it. And that can take a while. Processing isn't sometimes processing is years. I'm still processing a friend that, a friendship that ended when I was like 22, I still think about it and I'm working through it and have brought it up with my therapist. So I think when we talk about processing, I think that's something we can always be doing. I think maybe more what you're looking for is accepting it. Doree! Wow, you're really giving me those moans and groans.
Doree: Well, I think what you're saying is very wise.
Kate: That is, I think, how do you accept it? And I think you can tell this person that it feels horrible, but I think we also have to respect their, I think you can question their boundary. I mean, I also wonder if does this, I don't wanna say what, does this raise any concerns for you about your husband? I don't know if I wanna go there. I don't know.
Doree: I mean that, I was actually gonna just raise that. I don't know. It's interesting, right? I get that he's the debater, but does he have to always do that? I don't know. To me, as someone who does enjoy debating, you kind of only wanna do it with people who also wanna do it. So the fact that he was pushing it with this friend is a little weird to me, to be perfectly honest. I don't know.
Kate: Yeah, I think that's definite. Again, we have very little to go on. We have a paragraph, a hundred words, but if this is one of your best friends, and what are the debates about aggressive debates? Is it about which is the best flavor bagel? Or is it about politics or their mental health or personal life choices? I mean, I think this could also be a conversation that you have with your partner of just like, Hey, this has happened. And unless you're totally team your husband and you think your husband's completely in the right, I, again, I dunno. But to me, there's just a little flag over that that I'm like, huh,
Doree: Yeah. I mean, the other thing that I flag on the other side of things is this idea that her husband is half of her is yikes.
Kate: That that's what the friend has said.
Doree: Yes. Cause it's also people can be friends with people without being friends with their spouses. That is a thing.
Kate: I do think, yes, you're right. The friend, I think your friend does not have to your spouse. They don't have to like them, and your spouse doesn't have to your friend. But you are right. Dori in that listener. You are your own person, and your friendship with this other friend can exist outside of your relationship with your husband. I think it should be able to, so that's another thing that maybe to think about if you want to keep pursuing this friendship or having conversations about how to mend this friendship. You did ask for advice on how to process the breakup. And I think its
Doree: Have one more thought.
Kate: Yeah, go Doree go.
Doree: One more thought.
Kate: Go.
Doree: And this is just raising the question. I just wonder how much, since you met your husband, how much one on one time have you had with this friend? Because like you said, they've had a number of occasions where they got into aggressive debates. I feel like I can count on half a hand the number of times that I've hung out with Anthony to the point where we would even have occasion to get into an aggressive debate. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. You and I have our own relationship. Yeah. And same for you in Matt. You don't see him that much.
Kate: What if secretly on the side, Matt and I were meeting up to debate
Doree: I don't know. That also sort of pinged for me, and maybe this is her way of passive aggressively retreating from the relationship because she feels like her friendship is now with both of you. And she, again, this is just speculation raising some questions, but I do, as one of my favorite parenting experts likes to say, I'm trying to go upstream here, and see, I'm just trying to understand what is underneath the surface here. Maybe nothing, but maybe there's more to explore here.
Kate: Yeah.
Doree: I don't know.
Kate: I would say, I realize we didn't quite answer your question about how to process the breakup and I'm not really sure I actually have an answer about how to process a friendship breakup other than what I've already said. And that it takes time and talking through it with somebody I think would be helpful.
Doree: Yeah. Well, and as you said, Kate, or I guess as you alluded to, friend, breakups are really hard and you're allowed to grieve them. I feel like this might have come up with Dr. Marisa Franco, or if it didn't come up in our interview, she touches on it in her book. But I think as a culture, we don't value friendships in the same way as we do romantic relationships. And so therefore, when a friend breakup happens, we don't think of them in the same way as a romantic breakup. If you had a breakup with a romantic partner, your friends would, you would be grieving. You would be sad. People would rally around you. But when you have a friend breakup, there's no real script for it. I dunno. Just a thought. So I guess what I'm saying is I give you permission to grieve this
Kate: Totally
Doree: Breakup, as Kate already said.
Kate: All right, well, here's just one final text to share. This is from another listener. In the spirit of sexy time weirdness, my husband called me out for not using my P50 as scheduled. I told him that I was hoping to get lucky and knew he wouldn't like the smell. Dot dot dot. It worked.
Doree: What?
Kate: They didn't put their P50 on cause they wanted to get laid.
Doree: I know, but that is so funny. That like, I don't know. I love this. I love this text it made me chuckle.
Kate: Mean when I was using Good Genes and I would put it on and then get into bed, my husband would be like, it's some of these things potent smelling.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Yeah. It's true. Yeah. I think that's a nice cue for spouses. Don't put on your stinky stuff if you want. I mean, all those, maybe some people are like, yes, rub that P50 smell all over my body. But I dont know them. i dont know who they are.
Doree: Well, on that note, let's say goodbye.
Kate: Bye.