Mini-Ep 343: Much Ado About Back Sleeping
Kate and Doree learn a surprising fact about double washing your hair and hear from you all about butter sculptures, making childless friends in your 30’s, and how to train yourself to sleep on your back. Plus, hear who they’d put on the bill for their North American Gentle 90’s Rock tour.
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Transcript
Kate: Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Kate Spencer
Doree: And I'm Doree Shafrir.
Kate: And we are not experts.
Doree: No. But we're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: And this is a mini episode where we hear from you, we share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability.
Doree: Yes. But please remember, we are podcast hosts. We're not experts. We always encourage you to seek support first and foremost from a medical and or mental health professional as needed.
Kate: And if you would like to reach us, which we do love, our voicemail number is 7 8 1 5 9 1 0 3 9 0. You can also send us a text there and our email is Forever 30 by podcast@gmail.com.
Doree: And you visit our website forever 35 podcast.com for links to everything we mentioned on the show, follow us on Twitter at forever 35 Pod on Instagram at Forever 35 podcast. Join the Forever 35 Facebook group at facebook.com/groups/forever 35 podcasts. The password is serums. You can also sign up for our newsletter@foreverfivepodcast.com slash newsletter and shop everything we mention on the show that we endorse@shopmy.us slash forever 35.
Kate: Dare we say we us it.
Doree: Oh boy. I mean you could dare to say that. You could
Kate: <laugh>. I'm gonna take Brene Brown's advice and Dare Greatly. And I am going to say Endor Min. Also just a friendly reminder that we have a wonderful merch collab with the folks at Balance Bound can purchase the really both delightful and useful Dorees Hotel set paper products, pencil set. That's all at balance bound.co/shop/forever 35. And I did just wanna note that we met our goal of $50,000 raised Yes. For our giving circle. I'm blown away.
Doree: Me too, me too. It's like, it's amazing.
Kate: Thank you so much to everyone who donated that money is gonna go all towards local candidates in Pennsylvania come in the upcoming midterm election. So we are extremely honored and overjoyed at everyone's contribution. So thank you.
Doree: Yes. So wonderful. I was hoping we would make our goal, but I didn't know if it was actually going to happen, so I'm just really happy.
Kate: Well, it's a lot of money. That's a ton of lot of money people donated
Doree: It's ton of money. Just Yeah.
Kate: Well, Doree, shall we switch gears and talk about the very important topic of double hair washing?
Doree: Yes. Let us do that. I also just want to note that I am having some microphone issues, so I'm not on my regular mic, so I apologize if I sound a little, I don't know, tinny or off but these things happen. All right. Yes. Kate, let us get into double washing.
Kate: Yes. Door story. And I are, we're having a morning of technical difficulties, but that is what it's like living on the edge. Just recording a podcast <laugh>. Sometimes it doesn't go as you planned.
Doree: Yep, that's true. So you gotta just adapt on the fly.
Kate: Yeah, yeah. This is what a small business is about. Right,
Doree: <laugh>. Totally.
Kate: Okay. So we did receive this text message from a listener. They wrote, Hey, regarding the pod about hair washing, double wash has saved my scalp. The first wash takes off products and the second wash is supposed to clean. My scalp is no longer itchy. It's still sort of flaky. But that has reduced also, I can now go three days between washes instead of two. I might have learned it from TikTok. I honestly don't remember. But I highly recommend, especially if people have scalp issues, I have to say this surprises me because
Doree: <affirmative>,
Kate: I kind of assumed the more washing, the more irritated a scalp
Doree: <affirmative>.
Kate: But it turns out for this person. Yeah, right.
Doree: Yeah. But hey,
Kate: I guess it works for you. Okay. I would be curious how other sensitive scalps feel about a double wash.
Doree: Yeah, same. Same, same. All right, well Kate, we have a text, a very important text. The word judge was in the Saturday New York Times crossword this week. And I thought of you both. Amazing. Did
Kate: You do that crossword Doree? Did you do it?
Doree: I haven't done that one yet. The Saturday is pretty hard and I was away this weekend so I'm a little, Yeah. And I did do the Sunday though, and I was like, I'll come back to the Saturday.
Kate: Okay, well now you have been given one spoiler.
Doree: I know. Know a crucial spoiler.
Kate: I like that people attribute the word ju to us as if we've helped popularize like a classic word.
Doree: Well, we did. No, I mean I think it's because we just used it in the title of an episode.
Kate: It it's a doism. Wouldn't you argue judge is a Doism?
Doree: Sure. But isn't it, Isn't it a lot of other people use that word <laugh>.
Kate: Yes, yes. But in my worldview it belongs just to you.
Doree: Just to me. Okay. Okay. Fair. Fair enough. Fair enough. Well thank you listener for this important crucial text <laugh>. Right? We are going hear another, a voicemail.
Voicemail: Hey, this is Molly from Minnesota. Long time. First time I had to pause the pod when we were starting to talk about butter sculptures in the most recent episode here in Minnesota as part of the state fair, we have a woman called Princess K of the Milky Way and she's like a goodwill ambassador for the Midwest Syria Association. Well anyway, every year this princess K is crowned and in part of her reign is that she gets her bust carved out of butter and it is displayed at the state fair and at the end of affair she gets to keep it. Well anyway, after you talked about butter sculptures, I really felt that you needed to know that. Anyway, most part. Bye.
Kate: Okay. Yeah. So first of all, Princess K of the Milky Way is an actual thing that's crowned from what I understand. And then the winner gets a butter bust.
Doree: Amazing
Kate: <laugh>, can you like, what a gift also then do you eat it
Doree: <laugh>? I dunno. Oh, I dunno. There's, there's a lot of questions here. <laugh>.
Kate: I do have a lot of questions about butter busts. Doree, a friend did text you and me this weekend and they had been at a party with butter boards.
Doree: Yes, yes. They had. Yes, they had,
Kate: And dare dare we say they were on board with the butter board. It made me kind of feel like I need to try one.
Doree: Well, it sounded like they, at this particular party they had both savory and sweet,
Kate: Like a honey board, a honey butter board,
Doree: <affirmative>.
Kate: Doesn't that sound good? I know now I've clearly come around as we all knew I would, as Doree definitely knew I would. I've come around to a board of butter. I'm gonna invite you over and make you one and see what happens.
Doree: Okay. Okay. I'm on board. I'm on board with that. <laugh> <laugh>. Great. Okay. Well Kate, let's take a little break and we'll be right back.
All right, we are back. And a listener wrote, Hi Cat. And dor just heard Kate's question about whether any listeners have used Bumble BFF for making friends. I haven't. But I used something similar, an app called Pook. I met one of my best friends on that app. I think one advantage of an app like this is that it's much less awkward for me at least, to ask someone out on a friend date because it's assumed that that's what people are there for personally. And granted, I'm quite reserved, I'm much shy about asking someone I've met at a group activity to hang out outside of that group. On the downside, I think it's much harder to turn someone down as a friend in a way that doesn't feel really personal than it is to turn someone down as a potential romantic interest. Even though in both cases it's about the connection you feel with the person rather than some objective measure of their quality as a person. This is not specific to friend making apps, but might be amplified in that context because you're putting yourself out there to meet a bunch of potential friends and you're probably more likely to end up meeting some who aren't great friend matches than in situations where you're trying to make friends with people you've already met in person. This didn't become a concrete issue for me, but there were one or two cases where I was probably a mediocre friend because I wasn't feeling enthusiastic enough about the friendship. Thanks for all you do. Interesting.
Kate: This brought me back to you and I taking our friendship from internet to il because you had moved to la, you were like, Would you like to get a drink? And I said, Yes. But we had, I don't think we had ever really met in person prior to this
Doree: <affirmative>. Right. We had not <affirmative>.
Kate: So I was thinking about that step, that leap of taking it from the, cuz I've had this happen where you have an online friend and not somebody I've met on an app at someone I've met on, well yes apps, but Twitter let's say, and meeting up irl and feeling like, oh, we connect better online than we do in person.
Doree: <affirmative>
Kate: Something about, But I don't know if that means you can't just also be friends online.
Doree: Yeah, I don't know. These are all tricky questions and I feel like sometimes the friendship stuff is a little bit harder to navigate when you've been set up as friends than it is romantically. I don't know. There's less almost of a roadmap in a way.
Kate: Well I will say if a friend sets up two of their friends and they don't hit it off, it kind of hits differently than if people don't have a romantic connection. We see more for forgiving of people when they don't hit it off romantically than when people don't hit it off platonically. And I think it should be treated similarly.
Doree: Yeah, I agree. I agree.
Kate: The other question, Doree, I kind of wanted to pose to you is I was reading the New York Times extensive article on meta's new virtual world that they're creating where people can go and hang out as avatars using virtual reality headset. And I was just thinking about on online friendships and as we're talking about this making of friends, I think we've been talking about meeting friends, you meet face to face. But
Doree: <affirmative>
Kate: How in this conversation about making friends, how do virtual and online friendships fit into the conversation? I wonder,
Doree: This is also a great question. I dunno.
Kate: Cause there always seems to be the heightening of if you really connect with a friend online, you eventually meet in person but doesn't necessarily have to happen. Can friendships just exist virtually?
Doree: Yes, I think I totally think they can.
Kate: Okay.
Doree: I totally think they can. And do they
Kate: Have less value than a friendship that exists face to face? I don't think so. Well,
Doree: I mean we, no, we talked about this with Dr. Marissa Franco. I think it's <affirmative> different. It's not that one has more quote value than another it, I think it's just a different type of relationship.
Kate: And also there's an ableism factor I think that
Doree: Comes
Kate: Into
Doree: Good point. Good point.
Kate: Looking at friendships, I mean that, that's not something I have really fully given much thought to, which is my own thing I need to work on honestly. Anyway. I'm really interested in the kind of way in which friendships are explored right now. I don't know, and maybe it's cuz I'm coming off of weekends spent with old friends too that I'm thinking a lot about these
Doree: Relationships. <affirmative>. Yeah.
Kate: Huh. Well Doree, we received another email with some advice where to make child free friends in your thirties, all caps, dog park, child free, people in their thirties love to have a dog. They have time to spend chatting at the park and it's an easy in for activities. Go for a hike with your dogs, take your dogs to a dog event in town, et cetera.
Doree: When I saw this come in, this was a big duh for me. It was like, I can't believe I forgot to even mention this, but of course a dog park. Yes. Yes.
Kate: I feel like a dog park is a romantic interest, friendships, enemies even.
Doree: Totally. Yes.
Kate: Yeah. <laugh> like enemy, right? If you want an enemy, bring your dog to a dog park. Cause you can find someone to beef with.
Doree: That's so funny.
Kate: But the dog park is dog dependent. What if you have a dog who's like, I don't wanna make friends.
Doree: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I mean my dog. We don't bring my dog to dog parks anymore because there was just, there were too many wild cards. There's too much unpredictability. You know what I mean?
Kate: <affirmative>. <affirmative>. I do like this. I really like this idea a lot though. Even just, I do feel like you become friendly with the dog owners in your neighborhood just from passing them on the street. You start to just get to know everybody and their animals a little bit.
Doree: Well I mean when you have a dog who's unpredictable bo, you get to know the dogs based on the degree to which he freaks out when he sees them. <laugh> like, oh saw the white dog today. And we're like, oh gosh. Yeah. And then we have one we call Bo Junior cuz he looks like Bo but he's half the size. It's like, oh, Bo Junior still lives here. Cause Bo Junior used to live next door to us and then we moved, but we will moved three blocks away. So we see him still in the neighborhood. We're like, wow, Bo Junior still lives here too. There used to be a Husky Andous Husky. A husky has been gone for a while. There's just like, you know, do. So I have a different perspective on this <laugh> like yes, that's true. I know dogs in the neighborhood. I know which ones to avoid. <laugh>
Kate: Your dog is on the real housewives of dogs and they just are always fighting.
Doree: Yeah, my dog is just, he's just his own dog. <laugh>.
Kate: That's fine. All right, Doree let's take another break and we'll come back with a couple more voicemails from listeners.
Doree: Okay, let's do it. All right, we're back with a voicemail.
Voicemail: Hi Kainor. I am calling to leave a message because you've recently been talking a lot about Lilith Fair and concerts and just music that makes you feel nostalgic. And I recently got tickets to see Tote, the Wet Sprocket. I guess their big hit were all I Want and Walk On The Ocean. Those were a few good ones but it was something that as soon as I saw they were coming to my town, I got tickets. And then when I heard about Doree discussing the Duck I thought it could potentially be a let down and it would be something that I would go to and realize that I'm getting older and they're not singing as well and it maybe would be kind of cringy. Well, I went and I thought of you guys because it was more like Doree's hair experience in New York City. It was wonderful. It made my heart so happy. And for a split second I felt like I was transported back to 1994 <laugh>. So I just wanted to call and tell you how good it feels sometimes to just take yourself back to a more carefree time. And I think music definitely plays a big part in just how we feel about some memories growing up. So if you guys have a chance to see Tow the Wet Sprocket, you are hands of them back in the nineties. I highly recommend. Alright, love you. Talk to you guys soon.
Doree: Oh,
Kate: I mean, do you love this?
Doree: I do, of course. I love this. I love that my haircut has now become this reference point for people, but I do love that it turned out to be my haircut and not like the duck. It was not like a duck
Kate: You, Did you ever think that your grandfather's duck would become a podcast inside reference
Doree: Kate? I did not. I truly did not.
Kate: Papa and the Puppy in the Duck Papa and the Duck
Doree: Papa and the Duck <affirmative> <affirmative>. This is wonderful to hear. This is really wonderful to hear. I will say one of my pet peeves, and I'm curious to hear what other people think of this, but one, and I can't remember if I've talked about this before. One of my pet peeves is like when you go to see a band, like a classic band, let's say a band whose biggest hits were in the eighties or nineties and they've released, they've subsequently released albums that very few people listen to. And you go to see them in concert and most of the concert they play these songs that no one knows. And then the last three songs, they'll play their hits and you're like, Okay, I get it. You want people to stay for the whole concert and hear your kind of bad songs <laugh> like no one cares about or knows. But I find that very irritating. <laugh> fuck
Kate: Doree. I a hundred percent agree and I have gone to some, well when you and I went to see New Kids on the Block, Rick Asley, En Vogue and Saltan Pepper and they played the Hits hits and only the hits hits and
Doree: Only the hits. And as you and I discussed, we were like, that was a genius concert and it was called the Mix Tape tour. And the way they set it up was so smart that it wasn't like an opener and then another opener and then new kids, everything was mixed together so everyone just got to play their hit songs. It was so good. I think New Kids played one song that I was like, what is this? But everything else was the hits. So thank you new kids for getting it.
Kate: Yeah, I a hundred percent agree. And I do think a lot of these old nineties and eighties acts are doing this where they tour as a group and they just play the hits because it's like, yes, we're all honest here. We wanna hear those two towed The what Sprocket songs. I wanna hear all I want and Walk on the Ocean. I don't know what else I would wanna hear. And I had that album.
Doree: Welcome the Ocean. I mean that was such a good song, Such
Kate: A good song.
Doree: It would be
Kate: Such a good song.
Doree: What would be a great nineties Bill is towed the Wet Sprocket <affirmative> Gin Blossoms.
Kate: I was hoping you were gonna go there.
Doree: Deep Blue something.
Kate: Breakfast at Tiffany Singers
Doree: Breakfast at Tiffany's
Kate: Letters to Cleo.
Doree: Oh, Letters to Cleo was a little too alternative I think for this lineup.
Kate: Okay, okay. What about the people who sang this? The Kiss Me Song? Kiss
Doree: Me. Oh yes. The Richer.
Kate: Yes.
Doree: That is Six Fence On The Richer, right? No, they sang their, I
Kate: Think you might be right.
Doree: Oh they did
Kate: Sync Kiss Me.
Doree: They did Sink Kiss Me Six Son The Richer is a perfect, perfect band for this bill. Kate,
Kate: Can I add one more band to the lineup?
Doree: Yes.
Kate: Okay. It's the band James. And they come out at the end and they just play the song laid and then they walk off and
Doree: That's it. Nope.
Kate: What Kate, That's the best song of the nineties. They're
Doree: Bri Pop. They can't be on this bill. That's a totally different genre.
Kate: This is more like this is North American Gentle Rock.
Doree: Yes.
Kate: Okay. Okay.
Doree: James is on a different bill. I agree with you. James should be on a bill, but not in this tour. This is the different tour.
Kate: Okay, I see where you're going with this. I'll pull off letters to Cleo. I'll pull off James.
Doree: Thank you. Thank you so much.
Kate: Oh man, those were the days.
Doree: They really were and they weren't put it that way <laugh>.
Kate: It's true, It's true. I'm remembering it fondly through rose colored glasses. That's definitely for
Doree: Sure. Yes, totally. Alright, we have one last voicemail.
Voicemail: Hi Cat. So something that I think about a lot, it keeps me up at night, It haunts me, is on a previous episode about applying serums at night. My jaw just dropped when Kate just casually mentioned, Oh I just sleep on my back to avoid serums seeping into my pillow. Of course this is the goal, but just how casual, how easy it is for you. Please teach us your ways signed. I got a special indented pillow and I still don't understand how people sleep like this. Please again, keep us your ways. Thank you. Bye.
Doree: Well I just remember when we started this podcast and I think we were talking about sleeping on your back and I sort of trained myself to sleep on my back and then I got pregnant and you're not supposed to sleep on your back, you're supposed to sleep on your side. And then I had to untrain myself, <laugh>,
Kate: <affirmative>, <affirmative>.
Doree: Just pretty funny.
Kate: So here is what I think the missing piece is listener is that you bought the pill to train your head, but you don't have anything training the rest of your body. So when I decided to, I'm a side sleeper by nature and I'm talking a true side sleeper. I had never slept on my back. The thought of it horrified me, but I changed, I think maybe because of skin but also because of snoring. And yes, it's great to get a pillow, but I also got a leg pillow. The kind that you might get I don't know, getting a massage. It's actually flat on one side and curved on the other. It's a leg pillow. I'm not talking one of your regular head pillows that you shove between your legs. I'm talking a pillow. Let you prop your leg a I'll send a, I'll show a link. Okay. We'll have a link but a leg pillow and then you're going to want to literally wedge yourself on the sides. I put pillows on the side of me so that my arms are kind of resting. So I'm almost in a coffin in my bed that I think has trained me. I know
Doree: You're a vampire, <laugh>
Kate: A vampire. So those things really helped, really wedging my body into that position. And then I was talking to friends about it this weekend and one friend was saying that she finds sleeping on her back very vulnerable cuz it's just kind of open to
Doree: The world.
Kate: And I do think an eye mask helps. I have this luna eye mask and it's, it's not heavy but it feels kind of grounding to me. And I think that's also part of it. You want your body to feel secure cuz something about being in the fetal position feels very comfortable and cozy and being on your back is like mm-hmm <affirmative> very open. So I would think about not just your head, but I think we have to think about positioning our whole body as we sleep. Also, I think the other reason I did it was for back pain and it really, really helped my back pain. Switching to sleeping on my back and I still mm-hmm <affirmative> flip in the night and I often end up on my side, but I do start off on my back and I do stay that way I think for a while. So that's how I did it. I didn't mean to be flip and make it sound like it was easy it and I was like, I never thought it would be possible, but here I am.
Doree: Wow.
Kate: Yep. Just inspiring the masses with my back sleeping. Mm-hmm <affirmative> just a real role model.
Doree: <laugh>. Well
Kate: Doree, this has been a challenging episode cuz we were met with lots of technical difficulties but that only made it sweeter in the end.
Doree: Indeed. And we, we got to the end. So thank you all for bearing with us and hopefully we will resolve our technical difficulties before the next episode record. All right everybody. Bye.