Mini-Ep 329: Breathe Right, Sleep Right
Doree continues to search for cool sun protection and Kate starts ADHD meds. Then, listeners write in about writing, a favorite new cleanser, and 2-in-1 shampoo and conditioner.
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Transcript
Kate: Welcome to forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I am Kate Spencer.
Doree: I am Doree Shafrir
Kate: And we are not experts.
Doree: No, but we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: And this is a mini episode where we hear from you. We share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability.
Doree: Did you say? And,
Kate: And yeah, you know what, my family, my daughters and I speak in really bad Australian accents to each other. Not that that was Australian, but my kids watch <laugh>. They watch this family on, um, YouTube called the Norris nuts, and it's like a family of Australians. They also watch the empire family, another family of Australians. And so we all kind of now speak to each other in like really bad Americanized Australian accents.
Doree: So, wow. I was not
Kate: Kinda just coming out.
Doree: I was not expecting this to go where it went. <laugh>
Kate: This went off on a tangent. This went off on a tangent. Wow. Yeah.
Doree: Mean I'm, I'm here for it. I'm here for this tangent.
Kate: Thank you. Well, listen. Um, well, I guess you're supposed to say, remember, we're not experts. We're podcast host, and we always encourage
Doree: You
Kate: C cetera, but we got, we're not, we got distracted
Doree: Experts. It's true. We're not experts. We're podcast host. We always, always encourage you to seek support first and foremost, from a medical and or mental health professional as needed.
Kate: And if you wanna reach us, our voicemail number is 7 8 1 5 9 1 0 3 9 0. And our email is forever 35 podcast, gmail.com
Doree: And you can visit our website forever 35 podcast.com for links to everything you mentioned on the show. Follow us on Twitter at February 35 pod on Instagram at forever 35 podcast. And join the forever 35 Facebook group at facebook.com/groups/forever five podcast. The password is serums and sign up for our newsletter@foreverfivepodcastdotcomslashnewslettercanalsoshopalltheproductswementionedontheshowatshopmyshelf.us slash forever 35.
Kate: And, um, we are still, of course, just reminding you of our amazing collaboration with a balance bound. We've got wonderful paper products, pencil set, a do hotel set with an adorable teaching and matchbook. You can find all that as at balance bound.co/shop/ 35. And during this first month, we're donating a portion of the money made there to our giving circle,
Doree: Indeed.
Kate: And don't forget about our giving circle.
Doree: Oh yeah. Don't forget our, about our giving circle. It's still, it's still rocking still going strong. We
Kate: Got, we got an amazing email today from somebody who started their own giving circle after we did our giving circle and they've raised $6,000. It's amazing. Wow.
Doree: That is amazing.
Kate: Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. Anyway, that's
Doree: Super cool.
Kate: Yeah, we're very excited about that. So hello, Dory. How is it going over there?
Doree: Hello, Kate? Um, you know, it's going okay. Going. Okay. Just trying to navigate the very intense sun here in Los Angeles.
Kate: Okay.
Doree: I saw constant battle
Kate: Shared, I think in your newsletter, you shared your sleeves, your son's sleeves.
Doree: Yes. Yes. Now these are different from the sleeves I wear whilst driving. I just wanna be clear.
Kate: Are the sleeves that you wear while driving like long gloves, like glamorous gloves? Yes. Do they go over your fingers? Mm-hmm <affirmative> so you're like a 19. Yes, they do forties glam star.
Doree: Matt calls me Carella Deville. <laugh>
Kate: Kella Doraville if you will.
Doree: Sure. I can. I can,
Kate: You can, you can do that. Right.
Doree: I can do that. I admire,
Kate: I admire this because these gloves feel like the kind of thing that many of us would buy with good intention. And then they would just sit balled up on the floor of our car. But you actually commit to putting these on when you drive.
Doree: Oh, I sure do. I love putting them on while I drive.
Kate: And then I have another question for you with your, with tennis sleeves that you wear. So Dory shared in her newsletter, which is really excellent, by the way, if you do not subscribe, you should, um, these sleeves, like they're like cut off arm sleeves that go essentially from the top of your shoulder to your wrist, but why would you not just wear a long sleeve shirt? Uh, genuinely asking,
Doree: Because I don't necessarily wanna be wearing a long sleeve shirt when I get out of the car,
Kate: But these are the tennis,
Doree: You
Kate: Know what I mean? I'm talking about the tennis sleeves.
Doree: Oh yeah, yeah. Sorry. The tennis sleeves. Yes. Um, because, well, first of all, I don't have an appropriate, I don't have an appropriate shirt and this is, this is part of the problem. Got it. Um, you know, this is why I wanna design my own line of tennis wear because I do not hope you do have, there's just not stuff that I really want to wear. Um, yeah. But like, otherwise I would totally wear a long sleeve shirt.
Kate: Okay. So it's more just that the, you haven't been satisfied with what you found out there.
Doree: Correct. Okay. And also you do have a little bit more flexibility, um, in terms of like, like today, I didn't really wanna wear them, so I didn't. I see.
Kate: All right. Yeah.
Doree: I know revolutionary <laugh>
Kate: Well, look, you've got that's a lot. It's cool. I admire, I mean, I admire how you're choosing to live this life, this sun life,
Doree: The sun life is complicated. I gotta tell you it's like, have you, yes. Kate,
Kate: Have you seen that terrible map of like, here's where the heat's going to increase in America over the next 15 years? And it's just like, oh,
Doree: I have seen that terrible map
Kate: Change. Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. That map is boy, it's a real anxiety inducer in that map.
Doree: That map is rough,
Kate: But I mean, that is rough might as well get some sleeves like Dori has, because that's our, this is where we're headed.
Doree: Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. This is just what I've been kind of working with here.
Kate: Do you have any products that you are enjoying or you're liking?
Doree: Well, yeah. I mean these sleeves, which I will link to in the show notes, um, they are from Amazon. Um, but I, I, I do really like them so far. They're they're like $12. Oh. And my hat, which I've talked about on this, on this, uh, podcast before
Kate: Your hat is iconic, have you found a full body bathing suit?
Doree: Have I, have I gotten a full body bathing suit?
Kate: Yeah. Have you found something like that for some protection?
Doree: No. I mean, I'm, I'm like content with a rash guard.
Kate: Okay.
Doree: So proof.
Kate: Okay.
Doree: <laugh> um, yeah. I, so one of the issues with long sleeve stuff is like, I feel like oftentimes it's made to keep you warm and I want, oh, thank you. And I want it made to be to keep me cool. You know what I mean?
Kate: I do. I just ordered some stuff because my beloved Patagonia is having their annual August sale and I ordered some long sleeve cool gear, but I feel like anytime I find this stuff in like the sporting world it's always made for Fisher people like fish are men people. Well, I'm trying to be gender inter neutral instead of saying
Doree: Fisher. No, I wasn't. No, I, I wasn't that wasn't that wasn't.
Kate: Oh, okay. Okay. Sorry. You accepted
Doree: That part. I wasn't, yeah, I wasn't noting that aspect of it. I was noting that the, just the fish aspect of it.
Kate: Yeah. They make a lot of gear for people who fish that because they're out in warm weather in the sun for hours. Um, they there's really interesting clothing for people who fish like shirts with kind of back like cut open back flaps and like very wicking, cool material. And I don't ever see that for just like, like gals about town, you know, like I don't need
Doree: Oh, that is interesting.
Kate: Yeah.
Doree: Yeah. That is really interesting. Have you ever, have you looked on like Cooley bar or anything like that?
Kate: No, I haven't. That's actually a really good suggestion. A part of it is that because I worked for Patagonia I'm so it's so ingrained in me to shop from them that I always just sure,
Doree: Sure, sure.
Kate: Go there. But now of course, now I'm looking at Cooley bar. Okay. Ooh, Hannah. Anderson's got a sunblock hoodie. Okay. There's stuff out there. I just haven't really explored it all that
Doree: Much. There is stuff out there. If, if you're just looking for sort of like a kind of stuff, there is stuff
Kate: I am, because I feel like that's mostly what I do. I go for, I walk my dogs and I spray myself down, but I feel like it's not enough. I would just like to throw on a shirt. You know, I still feel like my skin is kind of cooking. Yeah.
Doree: Yeah. I think, I think you might find something on Cooley bar.
Kate: Okay. That will suit your purposes. Thank you for that suggestion. We've mentioned them before on the podcast and I don't know why I've never actually gotten anything from there.
Doree: Yeah. I mean, their stuff is great. I actually have a, uh, a sun blocking cardigan.
Kate: Oh, that's cool from
Doree: Them. Um, yeah, they, I mean, like it's not the most stylish clothing,
Kate: But well, I'm, I'm over on their website and I have found a hat that I like all ready. Oh,
Doree: Well look at that.
Kate: It's really cute. Okay. Here we go. Oh boy. We go start making that big, Ugh. Big purchase. This hat's cute. Oh, okay. Okay. This is very exciting, right? I won't, I won't shop while we are recording a podcast, but I will just note that I've already found something
Doree: You can, you
Kate: Can technically I could, um, Dory breaking news over here in my neck of the woods is that I have started actual ADHD medication.
Doree: Ah, Ooh. This is exciting. This is a big move for you.
Kate: Big move. And I'm very excited and I took it for the first time yesterday. I'm going, going through, you know, I'm working with my psychiatrist, we're taking it real slow trying to find what works, but I took my first dose yesterday. And honestly, the way I felt I could almost get, I could get emotional talking about it because it was really noticeable in a very interesting way, an unexpected way. And that was like, I felt C you know, you kind of read about a lot of these medications and they can exacerbate like your heart rate, some of them, or, you know, they can they're stimulants in many ways, but I felt like very settled and calm and it was almost STR it was like bizarre. It felt great.
Doree: Wow. Okay.
Kate: So I just wanted to share that exciting news since truly, I'm pretty sure this entire journey has been documented on this podcast, this entire do you? Yes.
Doree: Do you have any advice for people who might suspect they have ADHD or are considering going on medication for ADHD?
Kate: I think you have to have a really great relationship with a trained medical professional who is educated and ADHD like for adults specifically for women mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> because that has been, it has been really eye opening. And I would also say if you are an adult for me, there has been, and I've talked about this plenty on here, but a lot of grief, anger sadness that comes with receiving a diagnosis that explains a lot of your, the struggles of your life mm-hmm <affirmative> in the ways and, and things that you were made to feel bad about. At least for me, this is only my experience. And I was talking to my psychiatrist and she was like, you know, especially for people who are kids in the seventies and eighties, this did it, when it, it went undiagnosed and they were made to feel so ashamed of how they were and which is ex was exactly my experience.
And there is, I still just have, I have a lot of feelings about that, that I will probably be working through for a long time and the feeling of not being heard and nobody like it's just it's it's really, it's, it's been one of the bigger things I've processed in my life, in the last. Wow. Yeah. It's really been a lot. It's very emotional. I didn't, I didn't know it was gonna, I thought I would just be like, cool. I've got ADHD now. I got the, okay. I'm good. Mm. And then it was suddenly like, oh, I, I imagine it's kind of like finding it's it's similar to, it's finding out something about yourself that you thought you knew that's not true. I don't think it's like similar to finding out like a parent is not your biological parent or something. It's like finding out a truth about yourself that you didn't know was there. I can't think of an equivalent, but, well,
Doree: Right. And you know, I think it forces you to reframe the narrative of your life in a way that is, oh, can sometimes be painful,
Kate: So painful. And there's this feeling of, oh, if we had only known, which is not the case, because the world in 1991 is very different than it is 20, 22, right. Like just, it's just, it wouldn't have, it probably wouldn't have mattered, but, or I could have been awful. I mean, I have friends who did have a diagnosis of D or ADHD who were stigmatized and made to feel terrible about themselves. So I'm not romanticizing like what my life would've been. If I had had this diagnosis, it's just,
Doree: There's just
Kate: A weird kind of grief around it. And I think it can, it can be attributed to, to the larger conversation of the way in which, um, women are, are treated in the medical world, you know, in the ways in which yeah, totally people aren't heard, aren't diagnosed, aren't advocated for, by medical professionals. I mean, it can just go, it goes on and on into the many ways in which, um, things are just stacked against you. You know? So
Doree: Yeah. There's
Kate: A lot, there's a lot to unpack here. As our journal via balance bound, collab says there's a lot to unpack and I'm just, I've just unlocked the suitcase, you know, I've just opened it up. So, yeah. But you've, I'm excited.
Doree: Like you've just opened, it
Kate: Just opened it. It's a packed away suitcase. I've stuffed it to the brim and I've just unzipped it.
Doree: Did you use packing cubes?
Kate: I did. I did use packing cubes every decade of my life is in a packing cube. I've got my anxiety. Okay. In a different packing cube. An OCD in a small one. Yeah. Okay. Yep. And then my carryon, my carryon is very large, but it does fit under the seat. It holds everything I need.
Doree: Oh, that's convenient.
Kate: Yeah. And my carryon is my social anxiety, uh, predominantly yeah.
Doree: Okay. All
Kate: That, all that being said, oh
Doree: Glad we,
Kate: We, we figured out what I pack on this journey, this emotional journey. Yes.
Doree: <laugh>
Kate: All that being said. I'm like so excited to take this medication again today. It made me feel so good that I was like, it, it was like, this is what it's like to not to have your brain be quiet. It was just the best feeling in the world. Like, do people have quiet brains? Is that, do you have a quiet brain? Mm. Is that a thing people have?
Doree: What is a quiet brain?
Kate: I don't know how to describe it, but it just felt like everything in my brain, all the different pathways of thoughts that are always going and the things that are always pulling me in a different direction, everybody like took a breath and like meditated for 20 minutes. It was really interesting. So I don't know. I could talk about this for like a hundred years and I, I, I'm not, you know, again, I'm at the beginning of this journey, but you know, I love this for myself.
Doree: I love this for you too. What an, what a like nice feeling.
Kate: It's exciting. I mean, I truly would not have gotten here without
Doree: For you,
Kate: The you and the community of this podcast. So here I am. Really? Yeah. I don't think so.
Doree: Is that really
Kate: True? Yeah. Yeah. I'm being a hundred percent serious. I really don't think that this is something that I would've, that would've maybe, but I, I feel like you and listeners, I mean, listeners have just straight up messaged the show and been like, Hey, have you ever thought that you might have ADHD so many.
Doree: That is wild.
Kate: So yeah. You and I also think our friend Danielle shout out Danielle has been very helpful talking about, make sure I can her, but yeah, no really. I, I mean that genuinely for, to you and also to listeners of this show. So thanks for your support.
Doree: Well, that is very cool.
Kate: Please receive my gratitude because I mean, it
Doree: Re consider it received Kate, consider it received. All right. Well, we should take a little break.
Kate: Great.
Doree: And we will be back in a minute with, um, some stuff from listeners. All right, Kate, we are gonna kick off this segment with a voicemail. OK.
Voicemail: Hello, calling from Kansas, ironically enough, as I'm applying my post shower serum. Um, and listening to you talk about, um, the overturning of raw or overturning of row, Jesus, sorry. <laugh> um, in Kansas, that, that recently passed applying colors and I wanted to share a sweet story. Um, I was in the polling place next to an old man who was offered a seat and there was a lot to vote on. It was a, a midterm, like lot of stuff to vote on and he chair, and he said, no, thank you. I don't need to sit down. I'm only here to vote now. Um, which like still, almost makes me to fault. It was all of us who were voting to uphold the current status were voting no, um, against this amendment and to standing who probably was I, or was vocal and see in state state that people are coming out and voting, um, for few minutes to have the rights to their bodies. So anyway, just wanted to share hope you have a great day.
Doree: Oh,
Kate: I love this. What it's
Doree: What a nice anecdote,
Kate: You know, hearing the positive anecdotes and just a sea of hell can be really helpful. So thank you so much listener.
Doree: Thank you. I love that.
Kate: All right. We've got an email that reminds me. Oh, yes, yes. Go
Doree: Ahead. I just wanna say that reminds me of a, I think I read this on Twitter of a tip. Someone had that I've started doing, which is you make a folder or label in your email of like compliments or positive feedback. And then if you're having a bad day, you just go to the folder and you read the nice things people said about you.
Kate: Mm. I I've done that with screenshots. Yeah, for sure. I think that's a great idea. Have you started making that suggest one?
Doree: Yeah. Yeah. I've started. I've started. Good.
Kate: I'll send you a nice little note then you can put it in there.
Doree: Oh, thanks Kate. Appreciate you. <laugh>. Ah, all right.
Kate: Okay. We've got an email with like five questions packed in. Let's just break it down here. All right. This person wrote to us a couple of questions on my mind. What the heck do I use for sunscreen? Once I have makeup on, and it's the middle of the day I've heard of a compact powder. What are your other thoughts? Okay, let's answer this one. My vote would be a spray, so many super group and both make like makeup resetting sprays that are like a mist with SPF. That is where I would go.
Doree: I agree with this
Kate: Done. Nailed it.
Doree: Spray done.
Kate: Next question. Kate, are you gonna fish at Dick's this year? I know COVID is still alive and very much a threat, but they're my F and I'm going and would love to just say if you were to, okay. So I'm not going to Dick's fish plays every year in Denver at the dicks sporting good center, whatever it's called. They do like a three night run over labor day. I actually thought about it very recently that I was gonna try to go, but it's just too much for me to try to figure out. So unfortunately,
Doree: A guy in the past
Kate: I've been, I've been to one night at Dick's and it's like very, it's like very much kind of like a, I don't know, it's a big, it's a big show. Like it's a big set of shows that you kinda wanna try to get to, but it's just too much for me this year. And unfortunately I'm not wear a mask, please, even though it's outside, please wear your mask because COVID is, as you said, still alive. And I probably got COVID at a Phish show, so, you know, just learn from me. Um, but everybody have fun. I'm so jealous of you. I would love to go. I'm sure it's gonna, I'm sure it's gonna be like the best shows ever. And I'll look at the set list and feel regret.
Doree: There you go.
Kate: Next question. Dory, just ordered your book. Can't wait to read it. Can you tell a little bit about how you even begin to write a book so fascinating and can't wait to read?
Doree: Well, I would say the most important thing is to have a masochistic streak <laugh> and to like, kind of hate yourself.
Kate: This is very true. Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Doree: Um, so once you have that out of the way, I, you know, I can't it's, I can't really like break it down in a minute, but I think I like to start by just like, I have a notebook where I'll just like scribble down some ideas and most like 99% of them are trash. And, but then like every so often there is an idea that I'm like, huh, that's interesting. And actually, something that I've been working on, I was looking through a notebook the other day and I found some scribbles of like the idea that has become this manuscript. So, you know, I think that that's always a good, a good practice.
Kate: It's always so amazing when you see that and you're farther along and you're like, oh yeah, like
Doree: Totally,
Kate: Wow, I'm doing the work. And like, oh, it was just at one point it was just a scribble. So inspiring. That's so cool.
Doree: Yeah. I think it also, I think taking a class, if you've never done it before, I think can also be super helpful giving, you know, it gives you a structure, gives you feedback. So I would look into that, like a creative writing class or, you know, whatever kind of genre of book you think you might wanna write, whether it's, that's a great idea, an online class or in person class
Kate: So much can be done online. That's such a great idea, Dory.
Doree: Well, thank you. Thank you so much.
Kate: All right. We have one more question or no, excuse me. One. This is a product recommendation part in me. This is a product recommendation. Dori, take it away here.
Doree: Hi, Kate Dori. I wanted to recommend a great Korean cleanser called Purto defense barrier pH cleanser. I get bored with products easily, and this is one of a few cleansers I have purchased several times. It is a mild foaming cleanser that works well as a single cleanser in the morning, or as a second cleanser in the evening. It has a natural light tea tree sent and an easy to spread texture. The price ranges from 10 to $15, depending on which website it is purchased at. All right, your
Kate: Retail. Okay. Defense barrier T H cleanser looks like it retails for a $12, which is which I'm into to be curious if anyone else uses this brand, I've never heard of it. Well, should we take a quick break? Come back with some question. Let's do that questions. OK.
Doree: All right. Let's do that.
Kate: All right. Well, we've got a couple of voice males to share here in the last segment of the
Voicemail: Kate do, um, um, having a, I guess let's question about head and shoulders shampoo have been approaching 40 hair on spending, you know, 30 a bottle shampoo on various, um, brands that are supposed to help color. And, and I, my husband's combo one conditioner and shampoo headers today. And a couple other times, my hair has never looked better and I'm sure that there's a lot of like harmful shampoo. I try several more. I really didn't tried them all. And this is just like my hair. Great head. And so just anybody else that <laugh> head and shampoo two, one shampoo and conditioner combo take you are the best.
Doree: I haven't used a two in one in quite some time,
Kate: You know, a two in one is such an interesting product. Was it, did it basically kind of get invented in like the early nineties or were there two in ones floating around like in the seventies that
Doree: I do not know.
Kate: First two in one shampoo <laugh> conditioner who was the first, because I remember, oh, here we go. Proctor and gamble would be the first company to fill this void in 1987. It launched PERT plus, which would be the first two in one system. Oh, I fucking loved per plus. Oh man, man, the green bottle. I mean, oh, do they? Okay.
Doree: Per plus and pro panting. Pro V.
Kate: Oh yeah. I can still like smell PERT plus in my nose. So I always, it's interesting with the two in one, I always feel like they're too condition for me. Like my hair is kind of too flat after I use them. Do you, do you, yeah. Do you have experience with a two in one?
Doree: I mean, I ha, as, as I said, I haven't used one in years. I, I do feel like I tended to get more like build up yeah. From a two in one, but maybe two in one technology has changed.
Kate: Who are the innovators in the two and one space right now who's disrupting the two and one space.
Doree: <laugh> my God, let's start a direct to consumer company of two and one hair products.
Kate: Dory, wait, honestly, this is a great idea. It would be called. It would have some like funky name, like Sprite, but with no vowels, it would be a clean kind of bottle with no branding. Right? Like we wouldn't, we wouldn't put much on it.
Doree: Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Kate: We'd have a founder story that was like, I couldn't Kate and Dory couldn't find the two in one shampoo that worked for them. So they set out to create in their bathroom. They found a bunch of ingredients,
Doree: Clean, a clean beauty <laugh> it would be clean. Definitely clean beauty,
Kate: Vegan, gluten free, no paras, no ate, not tested on anything.
Doree: Cruel tea free. Yeah. Not even tested one. Just not tested they're dis preserving. So it goes, it goes bad right away.
Kate: <laugh>
Doree: That's what always gets me about some of these brands. Yeah. Like they're like, we use no preservatives. I'm like, oh, so like everything molds in like
Kate: Yeah.
Doree: A week. It's
Kate: What
Doree: Are you talking about? Yeah. <laugh>
Kate: Oh, our two and one would be so good. I was just listening to, um, busy develops is doing her best. And it was like one of the funniest podcast episodes I've ever heard. And they were discussing making a skincare line out of the potato starch dis like discard that comes when you make locks.
Doree: Oh my God.
Kate: I, I was dying. So I feel like our two and one, our disruptor two and one could really, I don't know, could really be something.
Doree: Oh my gosh.
Kate: So many in we'd have to give it to so many influencers.
Doree: Totally.
Kate: Yeah. Anyway, to this listener, if you're, if head and shoulders works, like that sounds great. This made me wanna go out and buy head and shoulders, which is always how I react to messages like this. So it truly is like, if something works for you, then it's the best thing for you until it's not. Yeah,
Doree: Totally. Alright. Kate, should we hear one last voicemail?
Kate: Yes.
Voicemail: Kate Catora. This is from Northern California. Um, I'm calling with a question about read, right? News strip. Have you guys ever used them? And if you have and bad for your skin, you have to like pull on your skin so hard to be able to open up your nasal practice. Is it bad? Sometimes they're hard to get off in the morning. And I'm just wondering, like, is what this is helping me do with my sleeping worth. It it's gonna like over time. I dunno what it would, but I I've for couple weeks. So I don't have like anything. I about a
Kate: Actually of thoughts about this, this
Doree: Oh good. Cuz I don't have that many thoughts.
Kate: Okay. So I have used breath, right. Strips. And I know what this listener's talking about. And I've also used like the mouth taping. This is like for my fellow snorers and I have a few thoughts. Okay. One people can have an allergic reaction to the actual adhesive that's on stuff like this. So you could, if you're having that, obviously stop immediately. But I couldn't tell if they were worried about the, the glue or if they're worried about pulling of the skin, like I'm pulling the skin on my nose. Is it gonna like loosen up this? I don't know, is it cuz it does. It
Doree: Is kind right, right. A I see what you're saying. Yes.
Kate: But my thought to you is this. And this is something that I am really trying to think about how I'm gonna practice in my own life. Who gives a shit, what it's doing to your skin. Your skin's not the most important thing here. Right? Like the most important thing is the fact that like you need help with your snoring, which is maybe impacting your sleep or your health in other ways. And so if it, if it like does a little something to your skin, that's not, you know, deeply damaging. I think that might sometimes be the sacrifices that we must make in order to care for other aspects of our health. This is what I'm saying this to this listener because I'm trying to, I'm trying to learn how to practice this myself. Like I don't think you're doing permanent damage to your skin. I don't, but I, but I also dunno if that's the most important thing here in this larger conversation.
Doree: Interesting.
Kate: I'm saying, look, this is a big, this is a, this is a practice I'm re this is something that's been an ongoing thing in my brain, since our conversation with Jessica DeFino of like, you know, what's the value that I'm placing here on my skin. So I don't know. I just need food for thought in that regard. But if it doesn't work for you, you know, like talk to your doc, talk to a DM, talk to your doctor, but take care of your snoring. And that's all I've got to say on that. Thank you, Tori. All right, well look, let's wrap it up. It's been great talking to you. Let's do that.