Episode 307: Decoding Gen-Z with Casey Lewis
Doree and Elise chat about the interesting recipes their mom’s passed down before Casey Lewis (Gen-Z analyst and author of the After School newsletter) joins them to share what the teens and tweens are doing for self-care, why she watches the denim back-to-school trends in particular, and what she hopes for the teens on dating apps.
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Transcript
Doree: Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Doree Shafrir.
Elise: And I'm Elise Hu.
Doree: We are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Elise: Yes, we are. Doree
Doree: Elise,
Elise: How you doing?
Doree: It's been just an interesting week or two. There's just been a lot. My parents were here. My son graduated from preschool. He started a new camp. There's just a lot of change happening.
Elise: Yeah. How was the visit with your parents?
Doree: It was good. It was mostly pretty good and they stayed with us, which
Elise: Can be a lot,
Doree: Can often go either way, but it was good. Our sofa in the playroom is a sleeper sofa, and I think on Wednesday's mini episode, I'm going to talk about some ways that I have made the sofa bed more comfortable because I was the one sleeping on the sofa bed.
Elise: Oh yeah. And sofa beds famously are so you end up feeling the springs underneath the pad.
Doree: You feel everything. Yeah,
Elise: They kreak funny.
Doree: Yeah, it's not great.
Elise: It's not great. Yeah. I'm eager to hear your assessment of modern day sofa sleepers.
Doree: How's it going with you?
Elise: Same thing. I mean, we both had parents in town. Yes. My dad didn't come this time for the visit, so just my mom has been here, but she has really taken excellent care of my garden, so I'm really grateful for that. Now I'm going to have to keep it up because all the herbs are now,
Doree: Is she a known, like gardening is one of her things or
Elise: It's just one of her hobbies? She just has a green thumb.
Doree: Got it.
Elise: And she's an excellent cook, and so she makes everything by scratch or from scratch. She's been making all the dough products like scallion pancakes, and when she makes dumplings, she even makes the wrappers from scratch. And so she's teaching my daughter to do it and I've been eating well.
Doree: Is there anything that she makes that you think you will start doing, or this is all sort of above your pay grade?
Elise: I just feel like she's always been so effortless at food prep my whole life that it makes me feel intimidated and daunted to try anything. I mean, I'm okay.
Doree: Oh, that's interesting.
Elise: I can make food. I cook for my family, but I don't try to make dishes that my mom makes because I feel like I would fall flat on my face. I just feel intimidated by it. And she doesn't cook with a recipe or anything, so it's not like I can follow unless I just try. I can only learn by doing and then I just haven't done it enough. I've always trusted my mom to do it, so it's one of those situations.
Doree: My mom is not a, she's a fine cook. Fine. And actually now, probably many years ago, she made me this little cookbook of tried and true recipes, some of which my grandmother made two things and it was her gel, her noodle pudding and a few other things. But the recipes are mostly hilarious. It's like there's a recipe for flank steak, which is basically London broil and the entire recipe is pour, put the steak in a broiling pan, pour wishbone Italian dressing over the steak and broil it.
Elise: Okay. I could follow that.
Doree: It's not not delicious, but it's also hilarious that this is a recipe
Elise: Recipe. Right. It's nice though to have these traditions and the way that food kind of connotes love and carries on onto the generations.
Doree: Totally.
Elise: Even if it is just pouring a bottle of dressing over a slab of meat.
Doree: Yes. I also think it's funny that it's specifically Wishbone. Does that even exist except substitutes?
Elise: I think so.
Doree: I must, right Wishbone. Oh yeah. Oh, you can get a jug of it.
Elise: See, Now you can cook for an army.
Doree: Wow.
Elise: My mom and I did go to Costco yesterday and for the first time in a long time, it's so funny. I'm so glad I'm so seen because we were walking out of Costco, but it was like nine 30 in the morning. We went just as it opened.
Doree: Oh, I know which Costco you went to because there's only one Costco in the Los Angeles area that opens at nine. I know this.
Elise: So you know exactly where I was.
Doree: I know exactly where you were.
Elise: And I lined up with everyone else at like eight 50 to get in and we're walking out at nine 30 past the cafe and she's like, are you going to get your hot dog
Doree: Stop?
Elise: She knows I'm always eating at Costco, a dollar 50 cent hot dog and 20 on street meal. But I was like, this time, no, because I just didn't want it for breakfast. So for the first time in a long time, I passed up my customary Costco hot dog.
Doree: Wow. I mean, in my opinion, it's never too early for a hot dog. I don't eat hot dogs. I don't eat that kind of meat.
Elise: You don't eat meat
Doree: anymore. But if you think about it, breakfast sausage is,
Elise: I don't thing distinctions for breakfast food generally. I just wasn't feeling it. Just wasn't feeling it.
Doree: Totally.
Elise: I'm surprised. I surprised myself sometimes.
Doree: Well, Elise, let's introduce our guest because she's one of those people who you're like, can I just live in your brain for a couple days? Just lemme live in there and absorb all the stuff that you think about and talk about.
Elise: I am so interested in what's happening with the youths. I just am interested in culture generally and broader trends. And we have today Casey Lewis, who is a teen culture observer and analyst, she has a must read newsletter that is in my inbox constantly. It's called After School. I love it. She writes about youth and Gen Z trends in her newsletter.
Doree: We talked to Casey about the topics. It was just going fast and furious. I mean, we're talking like Gen Z, beauty brands, teen media, how trends spread. I also was like, tell me about the teens. Just tell me about the teens. And we also got into the whole teens and Sephora thing,
Elise: Sephora tweens,
Doree: Sephora, tweens and teens. So there's a lot here. But before we get to Casey, let me just remind everyone that on our website, Forever35podcast.com, we do have links to everything we mentioned on the show and there's a lot there for today's episode. Follow us on Instagram @Forever35podcast. We're also on Patreon at patreon.com/forever35. We're doing casual chats, we're doing monthly book and pop culture recs. We're doing the Discord. There's a lot going on on the Patreon. You can also shop our favorite products at Shopmy.US/forever35. We have the newsletter at Forever35podcast.com/newsletter and you can call or text us at (781) 591-0390 and email us at Forever35podcast@gmail.com. And we are doing mini eps again. So we're doing these full length episodes on Mondays. We're doing mini eps on Wednesdays. So please send us your questions, your comments, your thoughts, your responses to other people's questions. We want it all. Alright, here's Casey. Well, Casey, Elise and I are both so excited to talk to you.
Elise: It's true.
Doree: I think we've both been following your work for a really long time and are just big fans. So welcome to Forever35.
Casey: Thank you. This is a dream I've been listening to Forever35 for so long. In fact, my, I've been listening to Forever35 since before I was 35 and now I'm 36.
Doree: Oh wow. Okay.
Elise: You've marked the big 35 with us.
Doree: You've crossed the Rubicon.
Casey: I have very vivid memories of walking around McCarran Park during the pandemic, that kind of time where the podcast was such a lifeline. Yours especially.
Doree: That's so nice. Well, we're really excited to have you and we have so much to talk to you about, but we do always like to start off as by asking people about a self-care practice that they have. So is there something that you're doing right now that you would consider self-care?
Casey: My self-care routine has always been very bare bones and it is less about physical state. It's less about my physical than mental and it is running regularly. I get so much mental anxiety relief from running
Elise: And you don't get overuse injuries. Your knees are fine.
Casey: I don't run long distances.
Elise: Okay.
Doree: How much do you run?
Casey: Well, I just got a puppy, so I've been walking tons. So I've had to scale back the running a bit because of the walking. Last month I averaged 15,700 steps a day.
Doree: Wow.
Casey: Which is exciting.
Elise: Wow. I need to get a puppy.
Casey: It's crazy. It's crazy. And he would do more than that. So I've been scaling back the running, but I still get the mental from the just being outside physical activity, but it can't be on a treadmill. It has to be like me in
Elise: What are some of your favorite New York City running route?
Casey: I do really enjoy going Brooklyn Navy Yard area.
Doree: Yeah, I lived in Fort Green and I used to be a runner and I would run along, is it Kent, the past? Yes, past the Navy Yard. And then I would run up to Williamsburg and
Casey: Kent has changed so much since then. Imagine now a Trader Joe's on Kent.
Doree: Yeah. That's weird.
Casey: It's crazy.
Doree: Oh, that's just weird.
Elise: Casey, you mentioned you turned 36 with the show, so you are not a member of Gen Z, but you have been obsessed with youth culture forever. You're one of America's leading observers and analysts of youth culture. So just for folks who aren't familiar with your background, why the interest in teens and youth culture for you?
Casey: So it really goes back to when I was a teen. I was always just fascinated by, I grew up reading teen magazine, really truly obsessed with teen magazines. What I have back here in my, these are all my teen mags. At that time it was millennials and I was a millennial and now it's of course Gen Z and starting to be more focused on Gen Alpha. But my thought, my sort of fascination with youth trends, youth culture is their personalities, who they are is not fully developed. They're trying on identities, they're trying on trends, they're trying new apps. They are seeking out their identity, whereas adults are just, we're a little less experimental. So I think that's why so much interesting culture happens with young people watching, even just pop culture. They're listening to different music. And I think TikTok has definitely amplified that sort of discovery and trend cycle, but it really is not that different from when we were kids and just trying on different, if a 17 editor said that I should wear this thing, that I'd want to try that on and maybe it would suit me and maybe it wouldn't.
Doree: Your newsletter after school is really, really just great. I learned so much from it as an old person. And I'd love for you to talk a little bit about just what are some sort of macro, big picture trends that you see happening right now among Gen Z and Gen Alpha?
Casey: To zoom back a little bit. So the reason I started the newsletter is I was seeing so many trends every day and I wanted to cram them into my brain because it felt like the pace that these trends were popping up, even micro and macro ones. But everything was happening so fast and I thought it's very hard for me to wrap my head around what is happening in culture from a macro level because there's so much. And so I started this three years ago during, there were so many cores to keep track of. It's like cottage core and then goblin core. And it's like, what does it all mean? Maybe it doesn't mean anything. So having done this now for three years, it's fascinating to see the macro trends that have emerged. And it's also fascinating to see how quickly things shift. So at the turn of the new year, the big, what I was seeing on TikTok and the sentiment across media was young people are staying in more. There was the rise of bed rotting, which for those who don't spend a lot of time on TikTok,
Doree: please illuminate us.
Casey: It was people proudly sort of staying in bed all day. It would be hibernation who hasn't stayed in bed on a Sunday, but it would be them filming content of themselves staying in bed all day. Another term that was trending around January was herkle derkling, which is, I want to say Danish, I should double check, but it's a term that's been around forever, but it means basically cozying up and leaving your bed. And those seem very January kind of trends, but they also, it seemed to be a larger shift among this generation of less interested in going out. Very cozy, very homebody. And I think especially interesting because young people are less likely to own their homes and yet they're like these homesteaders. So it's an interesting sort of adds a layer to it, but also so many young people are still living with their parents. So there was such an emphasis on the home. But now as we're going into the summer, it's like everything you're reading about is and seen on TikTok is FOMO spending and YOLO spending and women, young women spending thousands of dollars to go to Europe with their best friends to see Taylor Swift on. It's very much a, even if I don't have much money in savings, even if I'm never going to own real estate, I'm going to go on this once in a lifetime trip. I'm going to enjoy myself while I can. I might in debt, but I'm going to do it. The Guardian published a bunch of stories about how bars were struggling because young people don't go out anymore. Concert venues were struggling, but it seemed like that was maybe where things were going. But then the second the weather turns nice, then it's like all hell breaks loose.
Doree: So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.
Elise: Is there anything, kind of on the flip side, are there things that you're seeing among young people besides all the consumerism, which is worrying to me, it's like where do you get all this money to fly to Europe for the ERAS tour?
Casey: Yeah.
Elise: Is there anything that's worrying to you? Because every once in a while we get those moral panic stories about how the teens aren't having sex anymore, for example, because they're all living on screens and in Metaverses, et cetera. What if anything, is concerning to you?
Casey: So the thing that concerns me the most right now, and I'm sure you've seen a lot of the headlines of the dating apps are terrible. I really do in conversations with young people on my TikTok feed, it's like young people are desperate to date and meet potential partners, but the dating apps are so bad. And I've done a little bit of reporting on why are they so bad? And it's sort of a number of things. It's like, well, these apps have to make money now. And so they're putting one person, one young woman I talked to said that all of the worthy men were in Rose jail, which is the hinge. They're locked away unless you want to pay up for these eligible bachelors. So that's part of it,
Elise: Right? Because in Hinge you can send a rose, but you can only send a rose if you pay, right? Or you only get one free rose or something.
Casey: And so they're keeping the sort of eligible people tied away and you have to pay up for them. But I also think the algorithms are worse and there's more to it too. It's not just the app's fault, it's also young men are leaning right. They're likely to be more conservative than young women. And I think when you layer in the upcoming election, that adds a lot. So it just seems like the dating scene right now is very fraught. And it's funny because I met my husband on Tinder in 2016 and that was really the app heyday. Doree, did you meet your husband online
Doree: On Tinder
Casey: Yes. Okay. I feel like I know this from past
Doree: In 2016,
Elise: you really are a Forever35 OG
Casey: only knew, so it wasn't great then. But I went on a lot of dates. I had a lot of fun as a single person in the city. Were they all my soulmate? Of course not. But they weren't creeps or it was like and was able to match with people. It's like to hear what a lot of people are saying now is it's hard to even match with people. Or once you finally match with someone, then it's impossible to get them tied down to a date. And once you go on the date, you might be stood up and it just seems so dire. And it's like these young people want to meet partners and what happens when this entire generation struggles? And maybe, I mean, something will happen, the dating apps will figure out things out. I have faith. But when you think about it from a economic point of view, it's like Gen Zs are between 14 and 27. If this entire generation can't meet partners, that is going to hurt us, hurt America. On a very macro level.
Doree: Elise, how did you meet your partner?
Elise: Two different ways. We did swipe on each other, but also I knew his sister.
Doree: I love that
Elise: his sister's a journalist. His sister's a journalist at the New York Times, and so she could vouch for him, but my algo did show me Rob.
Doree: That's so funny.
Casey: Okay. Tinder.
Elise: I can't remember if it was, I wish it was Tinder. I think that's a cool story. In fact, maybe I'll just change it. But I think it was Bumble. I think it was Bumble, which is the one where the women get to choose or initiate,
Doree: Yeah you have to message first. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Very interesting.
Elise: Well, speaking of algorithms, Casey, we've talked a lot about TikTok. We've talked some about the dating apps. Would you say that this is where teens are mostly getting their influences today? Or are there other places where various trends are creeping in,
Casey: I think TikTok is hard to overstate its influence right now? I think so many trends are, the thing about TikTok that is fascinating to me is someone will wear one thing on TikTok, that TikTok might go viral, that single TikTok then may get picked up from glamor and glamor will say, this thing is going viral and technically it's going viral. It maybe isn't yet a trend, but then once it gets media pickup, then it just sort of propels forward and then suddenly everyone's, yeah. And so it's very interesting living in New York because, and I'm sure you guys see it in LA too, but it's like some of these trends where I'm like, that definitely only lives on TikTok. And then I see it in the wild and I'm like, did this come from TikTok? You just don't know. But I really think that TikTok is so much of the primary source in terms of inspiration and trends and unfortunately news as we get closer, I think the interesting thing about TikTok versus other social media platforms is it really is what you want it to be. So I've trained my algorithm to show me youth trends. What I'm interested in, and I don't know how much time you guys spend on TikTok, but you can say if it serves you something that you don't want to see more of. I love dogs in my life, but I don't want to see dog tiktoks. Then I say, not relevant to me. So you can really make sure that your feed is giving you what you want to see. And I think that that's why it's going to be so hard to replace TikTok. If, I mean TBD, what will happen to it, but the algorithm is just so sharp
Doree: That I never click on interested or not interested. I want the algorithm, I want it to be pure algorithm. I want to just see what I watch in full, who I follow and come up with some magical formula based on that. I'm not going to help it. It has to figure me out.
Casey: I went to the van store in Williamsburg and I got Checker Bird slip on stickers and I got home and was scrolling on TikTok literally the same day and it was like sneaker of the summer checkerboard vans. And I was like, oh no,
Doree: we're just sheeple.
Casey: Yeah, yeah. So every time I wear them I'm like, am I just like a TikTok meme right now?
Doree: Okay. This is to something that you touched on already, but so many parents, so my son is five. Obviously I think most five-year-olds do not have smartphones. We have not yet entered that phase.
Elise: Dear God. I hope not.
Doree: But so many parents I know have read Jonathan Hate's book, the Anxious Generation and are in a full blown panic about cell phones and social media. And I'm just curious, well, if you've read the book or even if you haven't read the book, what is your take on this and what are your thoughts about cell phones and then sort of separately, but relatedly social media for teens and twins?
Casey: Yeah, So I have not read the book. I've read so many articles about the book, which I understand is not the same
Doree: Same. I haven't read the book. I feel like I've read the book
Casey: Exactly. We've basically read the book. I've listened to podcasts with him, we've read the book. So I think it's just so complicated. I think I'm not a parent, but I do feel like there is a little bit of parent shaming in the whole thing where it's like your kid, you put a screen in front of your kid, you're a bad parent. And I was talking to a friend who is a working mom, and she said, there's literally no way I would be able to do, to have my life, my life if I didn't incorporate screens here or there, which are we going to shame her for that? Should she exit first? Should she not kids? It's so complicated, but I also think screens are our reality. There's no undoing it. Now, I do think that if I were a parent, that's a slippery slope to say if I were a parent I would do this. But I think I would
Elise: Just go there
Casey: It comes down to social media. I think social media is where it gets tricky because these algorithms are obviously, they know what they're doing. And even just some of the tiktoks I get about body dysmorphia, there's so much stuff and it's like, I see this stuff and I'm sort of like it gets in the back of your brain and you're like, do I need to lose five pounds? And it's like, no, I'm too old. That's crazy. Or these ridiculous diets or just anything. It's like it's so toxic. And I'm 36 years old, so I have the sort of reasoning to understand comparing myself to these other people is bad. I've spent too much time on TikTok. I need to put the phone down. And I think it's really hard. I've had some conversations with Gen Zers over the last couple of weeks where they've said that they're trying to actively spend less time on TikTok and Instagram, and it's because they find themselves comparing themselves to their classmates. It's really hard to constantly tell yourself, comparison is bad. I shouldn't do this. And I think it's not for the week, but I think for young kids, social media, Snapchat, Instagram, TikTok, I would be very weary. I think Pinterest is the one maybe. Okay. Social media platform just because in my conversations with tweens and Gen Zs, they say it is social media without the social. So it feels like more like inspiration.
Elise: I have to say, Casey, I was so surprised. I have a tween, she's a rising sixth grader and she's way cooler than me. She has the good hall. So if I do need the good stuff and I need the good blush or I want to try out the trendy skincare, I can just sneak into her room. And I noticed a few weeks ago, she doesn't have a phone, she has an iPad. And I noticed a few weeks ago, she has all these Pinterest boards and I think of Pinterest as something young moms did in the mid OTs, like pinned recipes and pinned jackets or whatever. What's up with Pinterest coming back?
Casey: Yeah, I feel the exact same. I do not mean this in a disparaging way, but I think about my Boomer when I think of Pinterest, I think about my mom who's a boomer, pinning recipes and decor ideas. It feels to me like HGTV Food Network type, but not, it somehow has emerged as a very cool platform for young people. And I've done a lot of research on this of how is this possible? And I hadn't spent much time on Pinterest and I started getting interested of what are they doing? And I think young people, gen Z is so obsessed with aesthetics and manifestation. And so I think these mood boards are, it's a way to sort of manifest your dream life, but it's also I think a creatively fulfilling way to spend some time on a screen.
Elise: Yes. Okay, that makes sense. For your research purposes, Casey, I'll have to screen grab some Pinterest boards for you this afternoon.
Casey: I would love that.
Elise: Just since you're curious. But we want obviously Forever35 started as it's roots. We're in skincare. So I want to know what you are seeing as the big self-care trends among the groups that you're watching, and are there skincare products that the tweens and teens are investing in that are actually worth it across generations that we should all be getting in on?
Casey: So I think as far as beauty products go, I have tried, my mind just blanked out. Oh my gosh. Selena Gomez's Beauty,
Elise: rare Beauty,
Casey: All I can think of is Fenty Beauty. Fenty Beauty came to mind because yesterday morning consult released a list of Gen Z's most trusted brands. And Fenty Beauty was one of the only mentioned cosmetics companies, which I thought was so interesting. So Fenty has been top of mind for that reason. Rare Beauty I think is actually a good product. I tried the New Road blushes that come out the 20th, really nice consistency. I don't love how plasticy the road containers feel. I don't know if you guys have tried them. The blushes feel the same as the skincare. This is Haley Bieber's feels the same as, it's like clunky, lightweight plastic. It does not feel nice or fancy in the hand, but it's maybe not meant to be fancy. It's meant to be cost-effective for young people to buy. Drunk Elephant, I think is one of those that's cute and not particularly harmful. I think it shouldn't be as controversial as it is, but I also don't know that it's necessarily worth it. Everything I read and also tried, the vitamin C is expensive. You can just get vitamin C from the ordinary. I'm trying to think of what products have come up in getting gr WMS getting ready with me.
Doree: Kate's daughters are really into Bubble.
Casey: Oh yes. I think Bubble is great. And I think what I like about Bubble is it's very cost effect. It's not, you can get it at Walmart and I think Bubble has figured out how to, I think the interesting thing about skincare among young people is so much of it is status items. It's like collecting something like Beanie Babies. But I think that's why Drunk Elephant is appealing because it is somewhat exclusive, it's expensive, it's cute. Bubble is not expensive, but it is still cute and it's managed to be a little statusy even though it is cost effective, which I love.
Doree: Yeah, well it launched specifically as a teen brand, whereas Drunk Elephant was not a teen brand. It was just kind of discovered by the teens, I think to your point, as a status brand. So to me it was interesting to kind of see Bubble emerge as this very consciously Gen z Gen Alpha brand.
Casey: I dunno how familiar you are with Bubble's founding story, but the founder was super hands on with her early customers. She created a Geneva group that was just bouncing ideas off them. So she really had this audience focus group. So in terms of packaging, in terms of who would be in the campaigns, all of it was a dialogue. And so I think that's part of the secret to their success is if someone didn't like the formula, they had a way to communicate that to the founder. And I think that it's sort of the Glossier playbook where Glossier had their super fans in the community. Yeah, Glossier is another one I think that is popular continues to be popular among young people.
Elise: And Glow Recipe.
Casey: Yes, glow Recipe. But I like Glossier. I feel like a lame millennial saying that because a lot of times there's a Glossier in Williamsburg and I'll walk by and it'll be all young girls and I kind of look at my skin and I'm like, this isn't for me anymore. But then I used the Mascara Boy Brow. I still like their stuff.
Doree: I mean, we could do a whole episode on Glossier, but I feel like there was a moment where it seemed like they weren't going to be able to kind of evolve and now they have and have become, I think they're becoming less associated with being the or millennial brand because they really were for a while.
Elise: We have one listener who wants to know while we're on this topic, do you feel as though teens and Gen Z'ers are brand loyal? Are they refilling their drunk elephant empties or are they moving from one cool aesthetic brand to another?
Casey: I love this question. I've done a lot of research on this lately. So it can speak to it super fresh and have research and studies to back this up. They are not brand loyal. They try new products more so than any other generation. They have this sort of unquenchable thirst to try new stuff. And I think that that doesn't mean that they won't go back to something that they love, but I think that that's the hardest part about being a brand and trying to appeal to Gen Z in particular is they won't think twice about trying something else. So you really have to keep top of mind for them and keep saying like, Hey, we're here. Remember we have a great mascara because or else you will lose them. And I think this also poses a challenge for brands who, if they do a campaign that people take issue with for one reason or another, or if it comes out that they are not as green as they claim or just any number of things that the consumer may think is a red flag, gen Z will not about going.
Elise: Yes,
Casey: I could totally think. You really have to be constantly engaging and also you got to be really buttoned up, which is tough because the best content on social media is candid. So you need to find a line between candid in your comms but buttoned up in your overall brand messaging.
Doree: Yeah, it's a really tricky needle to thread, I think.
Casey: Yes, yes. I think part of the reason they're so interested in trying more than any other generation is I'm sure you guys see this having worked in media, the sheer number of launches these days is crazy.
Doree: Oh, totally.
Casey: So it's like the interest is there because they're being bombarded by new products.
Elise: Yes. Okay, let's take a break and we will be right back.
Doree: Casey. I feel like it is kind of like a rite of passage for generations to make fun of the generation just above them. I feel like millennials were so shook when Gen Z started making fun of them. They were like, oh, we're old. But I'm curious, what do you see Gen Alpha mocking in Gen Z? Or what do you think they will start mocking in Gen Z? I'm just kind of curious if you've started to see that at all.
Casey: So I have seen more of Gen Z, mocking Gen Alpha. I think that's because Gen Alphas are generally,
Elise: so they're punching down.
Casey: They're punching down. Wow. They went from punching up and making fun of us to now turning their attention to the lower generation. But I think that generally Gen Alphas are too young to be creating content on social media without their parents. And so I think we're just not seeing them express themselves as much as they certainly will soon. And that's just an age thing because if you figure the youngest Gen Zs are like 14 ish. So that means the Gen alphas are sort of just getting to that point where they're able to be on TikTok
Elise: Or Pinterest
Casey: Or Pinterest. Yes. But just yesterday I saw a headline that was like Gen Z, making fun of Gen Alpha, making fun of them for their blue light screen faces. So fun of how much they've grown up in front of screens as if this is affecting their skin.
Doree: Oh my gosh.
Elise: And as if it's their fault that we had a global pandemic and some of Gen Alpha had to learn how to read on a screen. Casey, before we let you go, we are in summer now, but as we head into the next back to school season, I know you're going to be watching for back to school halls at the end of the summer. What will you be watching for? What should we be watching for?
Casey: So the thing that I'm always interested in keeping an eye out for is the shift in denim. Are we wearing jeans? Are we wearing baggy cargoes? Are they low rise? Are they slim fit? Again, are going at what point will the high rise, which turn to low rise start to creep back up? And I just think the pant trend in particular is fascinating because it says so much about where the state of where their heads are at and the state of what Y 2K era trend are they, where are they looking for their inspiration? At this point,
Elise: I was very worried that the whale tail was coming back when Lowrise was coming back briefly. Remember the thong underwear that came, you know what I'm talking about. But I was very concerned about that. But it seems to have just passed us by very quickly. The low rise is back to kind of high rise baggy, I think, but I can't keep up. It goes so fast. As you note
Casey: in my neighborhood or the young people that I'm seeing around, they're wearing a lot of low-rise, very baggy. I was walking behind a girl, which this is not a new thing, but had very baggy jeans that she had a fixed a shoelace two in the back to cinch and
Elise: And then also the unbuttoned in the front, the unbuttoned top button. What's up with that?
Casey: Yeah, very TLC in the nineties.
Elise: Gotcha.
Casey: But also they're wearing a lot of prairie skirts but pulled down, so they are wearing it low wasted. So now anytime I have something on my hips or above, I'm like, oh my God, I'm such a millennial. But then if I tug it down a little bit, I'm like, this is not a look for me. I can't do low. I can't do that. I'm too old for that.
Elise: I don't feel like low rise looks better on anyone frankly. I guess unless you're 12 or 13.
Doree: Yeah. There just also comes a time where you have to say, I'm just not going to, this trend is not for me.
Casey: Yeah. Yeah. I will say writing this newsletter, I have so much freedom mentally of just, I mean, look, I'm wearing a black T-shirt and cut off shorts. This is what I wear every day. And it's like this sort of like, I don't need to engage in the trends, I just am following them. Follow.
Doree: Right. You're aware of them, you're dissecting them. You don't necessarily need to be following them.
Elise: I'm staying in my soft pants.
Casey: Exactly. I think that's the fun thing about being a millennial being not in youth culture is you can observe it. You can think about what this may be saying about where we are economically, what are the political implications of this, but we don't actually have to go to Abercrombie and engage with these trends.
Elise: Yeah. It's a hard pass for me.
Casey: Yeah.
Doree: Wait, so is there anything else that you have your eye on for back to school halls?
Casey: So something I, shoes are another big category where we've seen with Sambas then the Gazelle's and then this it sneaker has shifted so quickly where it's like Adidas is having an amazing year. But then I think about just a couple of years ago, it was all, I worked at New York magazine, we did a team poll at the strategist of the coolest shoe. And this was a mere four years ago, and it was all about the Air Force one Adidas was not even mentioned, and then it was about the platform converse. And so these shit, it's just so interesting to see these extreme IT items surface. So I will be very curious to know what is the next sort of samba, gazelle cetera. I have a strong hunch, and I don't think that I am being a genius trend predictor here in saying this, that the low rise, converse, low top converse is going to make a comeback. This is a shoe that has been cool in pockets through the last what hundred years. It's going to make a comeback. I'm very interested to see when that will come back. But yeah, I think the shoe category is always very interesting.
Elise: So much to watch.
Casey: Yes.
Doree: Well, Casey, where can our listeners find you if they want to subscribe to your newsletter or just follow you on social media?
Casey: So the newsletter is afterschool.substack.com. And I would say I'm most active here and there on TikTok where I am Casey Morrow Lewis, M-O-R-R-O-W.
Elise: Great. Okay. Fantastic.
Doree: This was so fun. Thank you.
Casey: Thank you guys so much.
Doree: That was spectacular.
Elise: I want to be a youth again. I mean, there's some things that I don't, I don't desire.
Doree: I'm like, huh, interesting.
Elise: But the middle school years were pretty fun. For me personally, I liked middle school. I found high school to be more fraught. And I don't know, the girlies today are just so cool or they seem so cool.
Doree: Do you wish you were, do you want to be a teen now or you want to go back to being a teen when you were a teen?
Elise: I think more the latter. I think armed with what I know about myself now, I'd love to go back in time and take more risks, If that makes sense.
Doree: Oh, interesting. Yeah. I don't know. I think this is what every older person wishes is. I wish I were young with the hindsight of being old. You know what I mean?
Elise: Yeah. I have the whole reverse 13 going on 30 situation.
Doree: Yeah, Totally. Yeah, it's interesting to think about. Anyway, we are still doing intentions over here and last week I was going to enjoy the moment with Henry's preschool graduation. And you know what, Elise? I did.
Elise: That's fantastic.
Doree: I feel like I really did.
Elise: I'm so glad to hear it.
Doree: Thank you.
Elise: Tell me what was special about it.
Doree: So they had all the kids in his class up on a small, not even a stage really. It was just one step sort of elevated. And they were sitting there, they all came in one by one and they sat there and they sang a few different songs. And then one of the teachers played the, I think the ukulele and sang inch by inch. And they did a little, not a dance exactly, but they coordinated movements,
Elise: gestures too.
Doree: And I was like, oh. And then there's a little party at one of his classmates in one of their backyards, and it was just like a lovely day. And I think he enjoyed it and it was nice closure for him. And yeah, it was just good.
Elise: And you were really present it sounds like.
Doree: I felt like I was really present. I did take some videos, but I think I was mostly pretty present this week, so I just wrote WTF on our little document here.
Elise: Arts little chat.
Doree: Yeah. Because I really am feeling like, what am I doing with my life? I'm like, is this a midlife crisis? You might be witnessing a midlife crisis unfolding in real time.
Elise: Well, great. We're all here for it. No, I just mean, I'm saying
We are in community with one another.
Doree: Yes. What I'm saying is I am buying a convertible and I'm now dating a 22-year-old.
Elise: Oh, I'm so excited for you. Congrats.
Doree: Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, so it's not really an intention, but I think I'm trying to work through this, whatever it means. And I probably won't do that in a week, but we can try.
Elise: It's so funny that you mention a midlife crisis because I go to a Yung Yian analyst, and Carl Young is all about, he has this big idea about the middle passage between the first half of adulthood and the second half of adulthood. And that we all have to go through this passage between the first half of adulthood where you're trying to do all the things that the world expects of you externally.
Doree: Interesting.
Elise: Maybe it's marriage, maybe it's motherhood, but it's definitely providing whatever economic labor you can, Work. And then the second half of adulthood is about looking within and examining yourself internally. And this passage is very important. And some people are suspended. They never go through the passage. And so they're sort of stuck chasing these things like wealth or other superficial goals without purpose. I just went on Libby earlier this morning and put a hold on that Eckhart Toll book about finding your purpose. So maybe we can make this a little, you and me pair a read about finding our purpose.
Doree: Interesting. Okay. Okay. Not mad at that.
Elise: Yeah, I wouldn't be mad at either. I am constantly searching. Last week my goal was carving out one-on-one time with my children in response to my middle child. And I did, I carve out one-on-one time with two out of three. So I achieved, achieved my intention. 66.6% repeating.
Doree: Wow. I mean that
Elise: Two out of three ain't bad.
Doree: That seems pretty good. Honestly.
Elise: It was hard. It was hard because they were in their last week of school. My fifth grader was graduating or culminating from elementary school. They had their final recitals for dance. There was just a lot going on. So I still owe my youngest child, my first grader and rising second grader, a little mommy and me time.
Doree: Okay.
Elise: But I'm going to be intentional about that. But for my fresh intention for this week, as I mentioned, I went to Costco again and I got 400 vitamins. I got one of those bulk bottles that'll last me a year and a half. So my intention is to take a daily vitamin again. I don't think I have with regularity since I was last pregnant and I took prenatal vitamins. So I'm going to prioritize this and in the morning, remember to do it.
Doree: I love this. I take vitamin D and I also take a B complex vitamin.
Elise: We're all supposed to. Yeah. It's supposed to help our metabolic health and maybe ward off mosquitoes. One of the B vitamins is supposed to help off Mosquitoes. I can't remember which one listeners y'all will know. But yeah, I'm going to get back on it. I am. I'm getting on it. As of today.
Doree: Alright, well I'm happy for you. Thanks. And I also want to remind everyone that Forever35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu. And produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast. Thanks everybody.
Elise: Thanks y'all