Kate and Doree chat about email-free mornings, the seasons of sleep, and the power of the musical Rent. Then, they hear from listeners about shopping for caftans, getting into records, and more real life, unbelievable anecdotes of free-mugging.

Mentioned in this Episode

• Forever35 X Balance Bound collaboration

• Forever35 Virginia Giving Circle

• Odd Bird Caftans

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Transcript

Kate:                    Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I am Kate Spencer,

Doree:                And I am Doree Shafrir.

Kate:                    And we're not experts.

Doree:                We're not, we're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

Kate:                    So I have, a dunno. I want to say it's a big thing, but I did something that for me is a huge deal. I wanted to mention it.

Doree:                Yes. Okay.

Kate:                    Today, so I have really been doing a lot of reflecting on what I want my mornings to look like and my relationship with my phone. Now look old news, right? I've been doing a lot of this reflecting for a long time, but I'm trying to really make some shifts. And today for I think the first time since, I mean possibly since I've had a smartphone, I did not check my email when I woke up. I did not check my email on my phone. I did not check it all morning until I sat down at my computer, which was the time that I truly was going to be working. And it was somewhat revelatory and it was

Doree:                How so?

Kate:                    okay. It felt amazing. So today, just for context is my kid's first day back at school. So it was like there was a lot going on and there was a little coffee hour at the elementary school immediately after drop off. So I had a thing I wanted to go to and I woke up 5:45. I did my journal, I made breakfast, I exercised, I showered. And just that whole time I was like, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it, Doree, I'm not. And you know what was weird, which I'm sure other people have noticed this, my hand with my phone in it, it's like a reflex. I go to my email without even thinking about it and I did that once and then I was like, stop it. And then the longer it went, I was like, I think I can sustain this until I sit down on my computer to start my workday. And I did, and you know what? Nothing bad happened. I think that's the biggest fear for me is I'm missing something or I'm not responding fast or there's a crisis and I don't know about it. I didn't miss anything. Nothing bad happened. It was all stuff that was fine sitting there in my inbox for a couple more hours.

Doree:                Love that. I do think that fighting false urgency is very important.

Kate:                    Well, a lot of stuff now exists in this false urgency space. Most emails don't need immediate responses, but we expect people to reply immediately to texts and emails and we also feel like we have to.

Doree:                Yes, totally.

Kate:                    I was thinking about, it wasn't that long ago that I worked at a job where I had a work email that was on my work computer and when I left the office, I couldn't really check it. Sometimes there was a way to log into your work email from your home computer. Does this ring a bell to you in the early two thousands, let's say kind of basically until smartphones or blackberries, I guess that was the real transition phone.

Doree:                Yeah. I mean, I remember, I feel like I've talked about this before, but I remember when I worked at Gawker, I worked there 2006, 2007, and I didn't have a Blackberry. The iPhone got released towards the end of the time that I worked there. I didn't have a Blackberry. I didn't have a way of checking my email unless it was on my computer. I think only a couple people did. So it was just like, okay, when the day is over, the workday is over. I usually went out after work. I would usually check my email before bed

Kate:                    From your computer,

Doree:                From my computer at home when I got home. I would probably, I feel like I would check my email one last time, but there was no way for me to check my email at 7:30 PM if I was out to dinner.

Kate:                    Can you imagine that? And now we can just check it constantly.

Doree:                Yeah, I know.

Kate:                    And I will say it's not good for my brain.

Doree:                Yeah, I mean a lot of this stuff is not good for our brains.

Kate:                    No, no, it's not. So I am really, I don't know. I don't know if I'll ever do this again. I want to so badly, but it's like is this realistic? Am I built for this? Can I truly not check my email every morning as I do other things? But maybe, I don't know. It just felt like if I don't figure out how to set some boundaries with these things, I feel like I make myself, I don't want to say make myself sick, but I run myself into the ground and I also, my brain gets overloaded. If I had checked all these emails on my phone, I probably would've forgotten about them and not replied. I almost wonder too, you know how that happens. You get a bunch of texts and they come in, you're doing something else and someone sends you a message and you forget about it. And that's not your fault. We're not built to be in the middle of a practicing piano and then get a message and be able to remember to go back to it. That's just not humans. Were not created this way, I don't think.

Doree:                Yeah, Yeah. I hear you. I really hear you on this. I will say one thing that as you're talking about your mornings, one thing that I'm looking forward to in the coming years is not having a child who needs me in the early morning because Henry came into my room at 5:50 this morning. There was no,

Kate:                    Excuse me, excuse me, that is too early.

Doree:                There was no period of time when I could just exercise and shower and eat breakfast before I had to

Kate:                    Right. Because he came rolling in

Doree:                Before I had to tend to him. I did say I have tried to set the boundary of 6:30 is kind of when my day with him starts, but I was like, okay, bud, you can go play in your playroom until six 30. And he did play in there for 15 minutes, but not for a sustained period of time. Then he was right back in. And

Kate:                    Also your brain, brain is, at least for me, when my children were of that age, even if he was in his little area playing, you are not fully able to focus on anything else.

Doree:                No, not at all. So I have thought about, well, I could try to get up at five and try to have, because I would say by 5:45 he's usually awake. That is early, but five is early and I would have to radically change my bedtime routine to be able to consistently wake up at five and be ready to go and do whatever it is I want to do at 5:00 AM

Kate:                    What time is your lights out? What time are you like eyes closed? I am trying to sleep now.

Doree:                Last night was like 10:30. It depends. It's usually sometime between 9:30 and 10:30. It depends whether I got a good night's sleep the night before. On the nights where I wake up at three and I'm up from three to five, those are rough and I'm usually tired. And then if I get a decent night's sleep, I'm usually in bed by 10, and then between 10 and 10:30 I'm either reading or doing a crossword or whatever, doing whatever. And then I often find myself falling asleep before the lights are out and then I'm like, I got to go to sleep.

Kate:                    And then you're being woken up before 6:00 AM most mornings.

Doree:                Yes.

Kate:                    Yeah, that's super early on its own. It's early. It's early,

Doree:                So whatever, it's, it's a season of life, Kate.

Kate:                    It is. That's a good way of putting it. And this too shall pass, et cetera, but when you're in the season, it feels there's a frustration that you can't kind of get out of it. I don't know. I have found that in different moments of life, and I think it's not even about kids when you're in a certain season, a certain job, relationship, living situation, financial situation, it's like it will hopefully change when you're in it. You feel that stuck feeling that, I don't know. I really butt heads with that feeling.

Doree:                Yeah, it's hard. I mean, it's hard. It's always hard I think to not feel like this is just my life now.

Kate:                    Yeah, totally.

Doree:                But I feel very aware of the fact that this will not be my life forever. Because other seasons of Henry's childhood have, there have been many other ways that I've had to kind of navigate his infancy and his toddlerhood and all that stuff. And I should say, as you point out, it's not always about kids. They're not always kind of the determining factor. But for me right now, Henry and his needs do dictate a lot of my life.

Kate:                    Yeah.

Doree:                So it is what it's,

Kate:                    Yeah, I mean that is very true and it's easy. It's like easy also to be, it all changes, but it's not easy when you're living it. It's just not.

Doree:                Yeah. Yeah. So here we are.

Kate:                    Seasons of love. Seasons of love. That's the season we're in together, Doree.

Doree:                are you going to see the Rent Revival?

Kate:                    I mean, I would like to see the rent. Revival Rent is a very specific moment from me being 17, 18 years old And I freaking love rent. It's wildly dated now and that feels so crazy to me. I dunno, because it felt so raw and cutting edge when I was 17, and it still does in a way, but it just captures such a moment that I didn't fully understand as a teenager either. I think sometimes I didn't fully understand the impact. I mean, I know I didn't of the AIDS crisis and just how it changed, how it just completely changed culture and how we lost so many people who would've been pioneers had they been given longevity of life, I think. Anyway, this is getting off on a tangent, but yeah, I would like to see the rent. I mean, I just want to go bop around to rent.

Doree:                Totally.

Kate:                    Do you want to go want to see a rent?

Doree:                Yeah, I would go.

Kate:                    Okay.

Doree:                I mean, isn't it, it's just in New York though, right? You would have to go to New York?

Kate:                    I thought maybe it would be touring.

Doree:                I mean it probably will Tour at some point.

Kate:                    I don't think I want to go to New York

Doree:                Just to see the rent, the new rent.

Kate:                    Yeah. I mean I feel like, yeah, I don't think that's where you or I are at right now.

Doree:                No.

Kate:                    Personally or financially.

Doree:                No, it's not.

Kate:                    I'm traveling to New York at some point in the fall, but I don't think that's on the agenda.

Doree:                Alright, well.

Kate:                    But maybe I'll go by myself.

Doree:                Maybe you will.

Kate:                    Or you know what? I could just perform rent for you personally

Doree:                Now that I would enjoy.

Kate:                    Did Rent Hold a special spot in your heart?

Doree:                I don't think as special as it seems to have for you. I did see it. I did did see it in the nineties.

Kate:                    Yeah.

Doree:                I was sort of obsessed with the AIDS crisis and as a teen, I think as a child and a teen, I was obsessed with tragedy. I was obsessed with the Holocaust. I was obsessed with the AIDS crisis. So yeah, but I wasn't as into musical theater as I think you or some other people we know were. But I did see Rent. I did enjoy Rent. I still enjoy the music and yeah,

Kate:                    It's like an amazing encapsulation of the nineties.

Doree:                It is so of its time.

Kate:                    It's wild,

Doree:                Kind of wonderfully. I mean, there aren't that many musicals that are really iconic musicals that are kind of set in present day or what was present day and are really about the present day, like Les Mis or Phantom. When you think about kind of the big musicals, the ones that get revived and it's like Sondheim, a lot of it is not about the present day, certainly not about the nineties, right.

Kate:                    Times we lived through. Yeah.

Doree:                Yeah. The times we lived through. So I don't know. It's not like the most profound comment, but I think there is something, especially for people our age, it did come out at a very kind of pivotal moment in our young lives.

Kate:                    God it did it ever. Well, listen, if you would like to weigh in on this conversation, reach out to us. Are you going to see Rent? Did Rent Impact your life? Are you listening to it for the first time and you're like, what is this? Let us know. (781) 591-0390. You can call or text us. You can also email us at Forever35podcast@gmail.com. You can also, I dare you call our voicemail and sing your favorite line from Rent. If someone does this, I will sing also.

Doree:                Wow. Okay. You all heard it here first. I also just want to remind everyone that you can visit our website Forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned on the show. We are on Instagram @Forever35podcast, and we're also on Patreon at patreon.com/forever35. You can get ad-free versions of this very episode. You get our new bonus podcast season one where we are dissecting the first season of the oc. You get our product recall episodes, you get a special Patreon q and a bonus episode. There's just a lot of fun stuff that's happening over there. We're also chatting away on the Discord, which Kate has described as feeling like an old school message board, and I think that that is

Kate:                    Speaking of the nineties, it feels to me like the message boards of my youth, which I really enjoy.

Doree:                Yeah.

Kate:                    Yes. So if you want to come message board with me, please do. And if anybody was in the AOL fishbowl chat room in the late nineties, speaking of the nineties, let me know where I hung out in the nineties. Doree, we are going take a break and then we're going to come back with listener questions and comments and boy, there is a lot going on,

Doree:                a lot

Kate:                    a Lot

Doree:                We'll be right back

Kate:                    Alright Doree we open with a targeted ad question.

Doree:                Okay.

Kate:                    This person wrote, I got a targeted Instagram ad for a calf tan and I thought of you, it's my birthday, but do I need a $200 calf tan? Spoiler alert. I do. Sincerely. Another level seven susceptible. Hope you get that reference. I didn't get the reference. Is that a reference for you?

Doree:                I don't know what that is a reference to.

Kate:                    Okay. Wait, listener level seven.

Doree:                I was like, is this an Enneagram thing? But that is not,

Kate:                    It's a thing. I see it when I Google level seven. Oh, it looks like it's a reference to the television show community.

Doree:                Oh, I did not watch Community.

Kate:                    Is that correct? Community season. Okay. Yes. I believe it's a community reference. It it's a TV show. Yeah, it's community. Okay. I did watch community, but I don't remember that reference. Forgive me, listener slash I mean community by now. That's a deep cut.

Doree:                Yeah,

Kate:                    That's not a recent show.

Doree:                Totally impressive.

Kate:                    I don't know, Doree, you went through a real kaftan phase, I feel like this year. Last year you were really going deep on the kaftan.

Doree:                Last year I bought a bunch of Kaftans off of Etsy. Wait, was it last year?

Kate:                    The years have blurred.

Doree:                The years have indeed blurred. Yes. It was last year because I went on a trip. I went on a girls' weekend trip to Joshua Tree with some friends and I bought a bunch of calf tans for that experience because obviously, and yeah, they were not $200 kaftans, but do what makes you happy. This company that this person is talking about, odd Bird is based in Los Angeles, I believe it is woman owned. It's like a small business. So if you're going to spend $200 on a kaftan, I approve of you buying it from this company.

Kate:                    I don't think I own a kaftan, but speaking of seasons of life, I'm happy to get into the season of life and start calf tanning. I feel like also kaftans would be a great thing to vintage scour.

Doree:                Totally, totally.

Kate:                    You could definitely find some great secondhand ones, used ones.

Doree:                We have another text just had to pause the pod after hearing about Kate's rediscovery of records. My husband and I got into records a couple of years ago, and I feel similarly. It's a very deliberate way of listening and enjoying music. Now for recommendations, I don't have any specific ones because music is subjective, but I recommend getting albums that you enjoy all the way through. We started by choosing our all time favorites, then added some classics, eg. Thriller or rumors. It's also very fun to dig through old records at flea markets. The crackles in the sound of old records adds a certain texture and it's weirdly divine. A record player gets a lot of use during the holidays. So many great classic Christmas albums Enjoy the new hobby.

Kate:                    Okay. I love the suggestion of holiday albums. Hadn't even thought about this until we got this email. A hundred percent. I love this idea and we do have a couple used record stores near us that I'm excited to peruse. I am especially excited about getting into forgotten artists of Topanga Canyon. It's a very specific genre.

Doree:                Okay. Topanga, Not Laurel.

Kate:                    Oh no, I'm sorry. Of Laurel Canyon.

Doree:                Okay.

Kate:                    Yes. I mean if they lived in Topanga, I'll allow it. These are two canyons here in the Los Angeles area. Laurel Canyon, I believe is probably the more legendary music one. There's this artist who I got really into in the last year named Judy Sill, and she was like this beautiful singer songwriter who released I think two albums and they never fully hit. And she died in the seventies of a drug overdose and kind of had this really tragic life and I got very into learning about her. So I want to get her albums, and I've been digging around for those. Now, of course, what has happened is that my daughters have gotten into the record player,

Doree:                okay.

Kate:                    My husband made the mistake slash this was great before I realized that my kids would take it over. He bought Taylor Swift's folklore album as a record for my birthday, and I was like, oh, amazing.

Doree:                Great choice.

Kate:                    Perfect for the record player.

Doree:                Yes.

Kate:                    I love it. Well, I have a almost 13 year old and a 10 and a half year old, so you know where this is going. The second they sniffed out the Taylor Swift album, that's all they wanted to do was put it on the record player. And I'd be like, how about some Joni Mitchell or some Miles Davis? And they would be like, no thanks. Back to folklore. And then I'm also like, oh God, they're going to scratch the record. I can feel myself immediately becoming annoying. And I love that they're into it also, which is very cool. That's actually kind of fun that they're into it, but we need to broaden our horizons, so I'm loving it. I do want to shout out this Instagram that I love called Lost Canyons la That's actually, I believe, where I learned about Judy Sill and they have all these kind of really interesting stories about the musicians of the sixties and seventies in Los Angeles. I love following, I love looking at their pictures. It's great Instagram.

Doree:                Love that. Kate, I am into old la,

Kate:                    Old la. It's such a weird, fascinating place in addition to all the weird culty stuff that went on here in the sixties and seventies. Yes. The music scene. It's just a fascinating, a fascinating world. Alright, shall we listen to some voicemails from some friends out there?

Doree:                Let's do that, Kate. Alright, here we go.

Voicemail:          Hey, Kat and Dor. I'm calling in response to the caller who was dating somebody who was a total mess physically their space. And I started dating my husband who was in his mid to late thirties at the time. So he'd been a bachelor for a very long time and he was a mess. I remember one time coming home at midnight with him after being out and turning the lights on to his place and looking at him and saying, oh my God, he been robbed. He was like, wait, why? Because his place was such a mess. I literally thought he had been wronged. It was dirty, it was filthy, it was never clean. There were clothes everywhere. There was the refrigerator or the micro. Oh my God, it was so gross. This is like a grown man. And I'm here to say, I mean maybe this is a unique situation, but it truly had nothing to do with his mental health. We moved in and we lived together and we've been married for many years, 6, 7, 8 years together for over 10. And due, I do a majority of the cleaning and tidying. Yes, but he's very easy to live with. I would say much easier than 90% of my friends. I think he just made it a little bit of guidance and leading by example. So I don't know. I just wanted to provide that other side of the story that perhaps it might not be a mental health issue. Perhaps he's just a single floundering dumb dude. Anyway, this might not be helpful. I'm sorry if it's weird, but anyway, thanks for listening.

Doree:                This is interesting.

Kate:                    I mean, yes, you're right, totally listener. It might not be, but then it raises the question of, as the partner, what are you okay taking on and what do you not want to take on?

Doree:                This is what I'm saying,

Kate:                    right? It sounds like this person was like, that was fine for you to take on. You were like, I don't mind having this share of, but if you don't, then you have to come to the table on that, right?

Doree:                Yeah. These are tough questions.

Kate:                    Being in a partnership with another human being is fricking hard. And I'm not even just talking about romantic a roommate living with people. It is very multi-generational households. Having to balance all humans with different ways of living and different ways of existing is fricking hard and godspeed to anyone who figures out how to make it work for themselves. Literally no right or wrong way. What works for this person and why their partner is messy is not going to be the same for somebody else. And it's so hard to navigate. It's like

Doree:                totally.

Kate:                    As I get older, the more I'm like, oh God. There's no one way. It almost feels silly to give out advice, like it's not going to work for everybody.

Doree:                But I think going in with your eyes open is the most important thing.

Kate:                    It sounds like this person did that very clearly.

Doree:                Yes, totally. Yeah, totally.

Kate:                    Okay, so Doree, look, I never expected when we talked about free mugging for it to become this thing that we've been talking about now for two years, and maybe not everybody wants to hear about it. And to those people I say, I see you and I honor you, but there are lots of people who have been weighing in, and so we're going to talk to them and hear from them.

Doree:                Great. Let's do that.

Kate:                    Can I just make a note please? We have been receiving anecdotes and then also photos. So people will be like, I was free mugging doing yoga, and then I spilled and then send a photo of their spill. Or we've gotten messages of like, I'm in the car with my brother and he's 27 years old and he's free mugging up a storm and then sending us a photo of their brother. No one's sending us photos of strangers, but we're getting a lot of real life anecdotes of free mugging folks out there. And here's one from a listener.

Doree:                Well, Kate, wait, before we get to this voicemail, I did mention on the pod when I saw someone free platting, Right?

Kate:                    Where were they? Were they in their car?

Doree:                In Boston. In Boston, yes. They were in the car next to me. They were free platting. They were also on the phone

Kate:                    Eating off of a plate.

Doree:                Yes. They were eating off a plate in the car.

Kate:                    Were they using their hands or utensils?

Doree:                Utensils.

Kate:                    What?

Doree:                She was using a fork. It looked like she was eating like rice. I swear to God.

Kate:                    Wow. See, now this is where I get this driving distracted is not a joke.

Doree:                Yeah, I mean this person was doing a lot. She was on the phone, which we could hear, we were stopped at a light and she did put her window up, but before she did that, she was clearly on her phone.

Kate:                    Oh no.

Doree:                And eating.

Kate:                    I don't like that.

Doree:                I was like, wow, that is kind of next level. Alright, anyway, let's hear voicemail

Kate:                    Here's another next level free mugging situation.

Doree:                Okay, here we go.

Voicemail:          Hi, my name is Kelly and caller I, should I start this? Okay, I'm going to start from the beginning. I, last week almost got ran over on the sidewalk by a guy, a grown adult on a bike, and I was walking with my husband and he almost ran right into us and he was carrying a mug, a regular old coffee mug. And I said to my husband, I can't believe he's just driving around with an open mug like that. That's crazy. What the hell is happening? And then today, I just happened to be listening to your podcast. I think it's old. I'm not even sure I'm behind you guys talking about free mugging. And I was like, oh my God. He's a member of the free mugging movement. Anyway, I just thought that was funny to share.

Doree:                We got an email from a listener in Amsterdam maybe who was free mugging on a bike

Kate:                    That they live bike culture is their life there.

Doree:                Totally.

Kate:                    Yeah. Yeah. It is a little scary if the bike is headed toward you.

Doree:                Yeah. I feel like if you're going to free mug on a bike, the least you can do is pay attention to your surroundings.

Kate:                    Yes. We do want to make sure that even though we jokingly chat about free mugging, we are very serious about other people's safety.

Doree:                Yes. I mean, as an anti-free mugger, I am very concerned with people's safety.

Kate:                    Well, we received another really sweet message from a listener who was like, it just dawned on me that my mom who's passed away was a free mugger. And it reminds me, and she did not like the feeling of a lid on her cup. And I just thought that was a very sweet memory to have. Yeah, so it can, free mugging can bring up all sorts of things.

Doree:                Yeah. Alright, well Kate, let's take another little break.

Kate:                    Okey doke.

Doree:                We have some intentions to get to when we get back.

Kate:                    Oh goodness. Do I ever.

Doree:                Alright, we'll be right back.

Kate:                    Doree, here we are. The end of the road for today.

Doree:                Here we are.

Kate:                    Now as discussed, I had some raging jet lag insomnia this last week. I had two nights where I didn't sleep at all, which was, that didn't feel good. But I will say what else I did learn is that I was able to get through the day. I tend to have anxiety about going to sleep and start worrying that I'm not going to fall asleep. And then when I don't sleep, that makes the anxiety worse. I'm sure other people know what I'm talking about, but I was able to get through the day on no sleep and then get back on schedule. So my intention had been to get back on my schedule, get this jet lag kind of dealt with. And I think I'm starting to turn the corner. Last night I did turn the light off at 10:15 and I don't think I fell asleep until about 11:15, 11:30, but I got there. So I'm checking the box.

Doree:                Okay. I'm excited for you.

Kate:                    And my intention for this week is to try to stick to my morning routine that I'm trying to do, which I talked about a little bit up top on this episode. But getting up before my family, doing my morning pages, journal journal, doing my gratitude journal, just checking in, stretching, having my coffee, maybe eating something too. But just having that time and trying to really prescribe it value in my life and not brush it off, assign it value. I think prescribe is the wrong word. Assign it value. Give it weight.

Doree:                Okay.

Kate:                    Okay. Alright. So that's me. How is it going over there? Your parents are visiting.

Doree:                Yeah, so my parents, because of our recording schedule, my parents have not actually arrived yet. By the time this airs, they will be leaving, but they have not arrived yet. But I'm feeling pretty good about it. I mean, as I discussed last week, they're only here for three nights and they get in late on Friday and they're leaving early Monday. So we really only have two days with them. And I've sort of figured out what we're going to do and feeling pretty good about it. I've also started cleaning up the outside of our house. Our yard is a junky yard.

Kate:                    There's stuff everywhere.

Doree:                There's just stuff everywhere and I hate it, but I've just felt sort of overwhelmed and apathetic about actually doing anything about it. And then it's been hot, so you don't want to be outside cleaning up. And I just keep making excuses, but I'm starting to get things together. I just don't want it to look horrible when they show up. So we'll see. What I'm also focusing on this week is, I don't know if you remember,

Kate:                    Okay, I'm ready.

Doree:                But I had finally found a strength class at my gym that I really liked.

Kate:                    Yes, I do remember.

Doree:                Yes. And so it was at the perfect time for me. They recently changed the time.

Kate:                    No.

Doree:                Yes. Don't they know that you have a schedule? They changed the time to 10:30. That's just not a good time for me, it's basically the middle of the day and it breaks up the day and I can't get anything done. It's just not a good time. By the time I finish the class, come home, shower. It's like noon. I can't start my day at noon. That's just too late. Even just twice a week. I have too much shit to do. So that's annoying me. And it means I have to figure out a new workout schedule, which is frustrating. Is this the biggest problem in the world? No, absolutely not. But it's kind of like when the pandemic happened and my Broadway dance class never returned.

Kate:                    You get into a routine,

Doree:                You get into a routine, you get get into a groove,

Kate:                    I hear you.

Doree:                And now I have to find a new groove. So I'm trying to figure that out. I don't like when I have a schedule figured out and it changes due to circumstances beyond my control. I do not like that.

Kate:                    I know it's really hard, isn't it?

Doree:                Yes.

Kate:                    Sometimes what I'm, and sometimes the most benign things are the, it throws you more than a crisis. Does that make sense?

Doree:                Totally. Yes, yes, yes. So again, not the biggest problem in the world. Just something that I now have to kind of figure out. So here we are here, and as we wrap up, I do just want to remind everyone Forever35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir and Kate Spencer.

Kate:                    That's me.

Doree:                That is you. And produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast. Thanks so much for listening. We will talk to you soon. Bye

Kate:                    Bye.