Episode 261: When To Say Yes with Brittany Luse
Kate and Doree discover Doree might have been wearing the wrong size shoe her whole adult life and wonder if custom-made shoes are a viable option. Then, award-winning journalist, on-air host, and cultural critic Brittany Luse joins them on the show to chat about the life-changing benefits of career coaching, how Gen Z is influencing pop-culture, and what two things in pop culture are not being covered enough.
Photo Credit: Sarah Jacobs
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Transcript
Kate: Well, Hello there. Welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Kate Spencer.
Doree: And I am Doree Shafrir.
Kate: And we are not experts.
Doree: No, we're not, but we're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: Hello. Welcome to the show. If you're new here, friendly reminder that you can visit our website Forever35podcast. For links to everything we talk about. Our Instagram is @Forever35podcast. There is a Forever35 Facebook community. The group's password is serums. You can find products that we Love shopmy.us/Forever35, and you can sign up for the newsletter, our show newsletter at Forever35podcast.com/newsletter.
Doree: And I also just want to mention that we have some really great merch, balancebound.co/shop/forever35. And you can also call or text us at (781) 591-0390 and email us ar forever35podcast@gmail.com.
Kate: My family is about to embark on a road trip through some southwestern states.
Doree: I'm excited for you.
Kate: I'm really Excited for you America. I'm really pumped. My husband is very worked up because he's really worried about the rain.
Doree: Oh, sure.
Kate: But I think he's just been so excited about this trip and is very frustrated. You know what? It's all fine. But on my packing list is my Forever35 hoodie. I love it. And we're like, we're going to be camping and hiking and spending a lot of time in the car and it just feels like a real cozy choice for me to bring as I toot a loot on over to Zion National Park,
Doree: Toot toot a loot
Kate: Look, if you see me screaming at my kids in a national park, say hi.
Doree: I doubt you'll be screaming at your kids.
Kate: Really? Because I feel pretty confident that at some point I'm going to yell at my kids.
Doree: Really?
Kate: I mean, yeah,
Doree: but it's not going to be an ongoing,
Kate: I don't know. You doubt me, but I could prove you wrong.
Doree: I do, Kate. I do doubt you.
Kate: My mom was a bit of a yeller and I feel like that it's interesting when you grow up, you just mimic your parents in a lot of ways, even though you're sometimes trying to break the cycles. I feel like also how they communicated is ingrained on you. And my mom, who was amazing, had a bit of a, she was quick to temper, which is exactly how I am so
Doree: Quick to take it there.
Kate: She was a Scorpio Doree, and I feel like she really scorped.
Doree: Okay. Say no more.
Kate: Yeah. That's all need to know.
Doree: Say no more.
Kate: Anyway, how you doing over there,
Doree: You know, Kate? As I was saying to you before we started recording, I have been having some revelations about my feet and shoes.
Kate: Now let's take the group chat to the podcast because you have been sending me a lot of photos of shoes.
Doree: I have.
Kate: So, which I love, which I will never say no to a shoe try on.
Doree: I've been looking for some sneakers, some not athletic shoes, not like running shoes, but just shoes I can wear out kind of thing.
Kate: A Style sneaker.
Doree: A style sneaker. And I haven't been really finding anything great. And I've also realized so well, okay, let me back up. I ordered a couple pairs of sneakers, the same style in a couple different sizes. They didn't have what I thought was my actual size. So I ordered the half size down and the half size up because in typical user review fashion, half the people were like, these run big. And half the people were like, these run small. And it's like,
Kate: And no one's, we all have different feet with different issues.
Doree: It's like, okay, well that's not helpful. So I, I'm just going to get these two. And so I put on the smaller size and I was like, Ooh, these feel good. And I thought they look cute. And I was just wearing them around the house because I do find that I need to wear shoes for a couple of hours to just
Kate: Get a feel for them,
Doree: Get the feeling. And I was feeling them. And then I asked Matt to feel my toes in the shoes. I was like, do you feel like these fit? And he felt them and he was like, absolutely not. They're way too small. And I was like, oh. He's like, I'm like, well, I did get another size, but they're a full size bigger. And he's like, well try those on. I was like, but they felt too big. He's put them on. So I put them on and he's like, it feels my toes again. He's like, this is your right size. And I was like, oh. But my problem is that I have a narrow heel. So oftentimes I think what ends up happening is the shoes that are indeed perhaps slightly too small are the ones that fit in the heel.
Kate: I see
Doree: And the ones that are the act, my actual size, my heel comes up.
Kate: Oh boy, that's annoying.
Doree: It's very annoying. So now I'm feeling all of my shoes and I'm like, wait a second.
Kate: Oh no,
Doree: These might be half a size too small.
Kate: You've been in the wrong size shoe your whole life.
Doree: Well, I knew I had already gone up almost a full size, half a size to a full size after I had Henry. But it's possible I was already wearing the wrong size. You know what I mean?
Kate: I do.
Doree: So this has just thrown me into a tailspin.
Kate: Now you know what you need, and I don't know if this exists, maybe it does. What you don't need just to go to a shoe store and have someone measure your foot. You need the bra, personalized bra measurement,
Doree: totally
Kate: shopping experience, but for your feet.
Doree: And I feel like everything else, people who actually know how to measure feet and are trained shoe people, it doesn't exist anymore. I love Nordstrom. I've bought many things at Nordstrom and I love the people who work in the shoe department, but they do not know shit about fit. I'm sorry. They just
Kate: Speak your truth, Doree
Doree: They just don't. And that is the place with the widest selection of shoes in our vicinity. I don't know.
Kate: If someone wants to get their foot properly measured, who do you see? Do you go to a podiatrist? Truly,
Doree: I don't know. Is do custom sneakers exist?
Kate: I mean, everything exists for a price, right?
Doree: It does it does.
Kate: That's a very cynical point of view, but.
Doree: Ugh, I have as discussed previously, I have wide toes, but a narrow heel and it is not a, and my right foot is bigger than my left foot. So it's not a great combo. I'm not going to lie.
Kate: That's frustrating.
Doree: It is frustrating.
Kate: I mean, could you go to a cobbler? That's not a thing. No one's cobbling shoes for people anymore. Right. At a reasonable price.
Doree: I don't think anyone's cobbling anymore.
Kate: The cobbler's. That's got to be in a very expensive. Endeavor. Well, although am I imagining things or didn't Daniel Day Lewis play at Cobbler and he went and to Italy and learned how to make shoes?
Doree: Could we find him?
Kate: Just going to do a quick Google.
Doree: Kate, I'm wondering if I should try on clouds for tennis shoes.
Kate: Oh, I love on clouds.
Doree: I know. Me too also. Anyway,
Kate: Yes. Daniel de Lewis did become a cobbler.
Doree: Wow. Okay.
Kate: Yep, he did.
Doree: Okay.
Kate: So maybe, although maybe that could also become your new hobby
Doree: Cobbling.
Kate: I don't know. I mean, would you be down for that? Is that strange?
Doree: I am. I don't know. This is just, it's just, it's something I'm just trying to wrap my head around.
Kate: That's fair.
Doree: But now I'm way too much about my shoes and how they feel. Like I put on my hokas and I was like, wait, are these two small, small,
Kate: Oh you're in your head. Yeah,
Doree: It's in my head now. Yeah. And look, as with many things that we discuss, are there bigger problems in the world? Yes,
Kate: A hundred percent.
Doree: But is this the problem I'm thinking about right this second? Yes, it is. It sure. Is it,
Kate: I think these problems are easier to tackle. Thans say the things that cause us legitimate panic. Like the judge in Texas deciding about abortion pills, the things that I'm, I'm fucking spiraling about. It's like, let me take a moment to focus on something smaller. My toes.
Doree: Yeah. Yeah. So you might be on to something.
Kate: I think that's a coping mechanism that we are allowed to have to survive these times and all times.
Doree: Okay. All right. Okay.
Kate: Can you just take a minute and think about your feet for a little bit, Doree? And I think that's okay.
Doree: Okay. Okay. Thank you for you for seeing me. Thank you for giving me permission for that. I appreciate you.
Kate: You're welcome. And just keep sending me picks of shoes.
Doree: I will.
Kate: I do wonder if, and this might be a lit, this might not exist, but men's narrow shoes might work for you. I often wear men's shoes.
Doree: Men's narrow shoes are, I think, the same width as women's shoes. Okay. I think so that men's regular width are D and women's regular with our B. Maybe men's narrow is C, I don't know. But I, men's shoes tend to be too wide for me.
Kate: Do we need to find a shoemaker to come on this podcast?
Doree: I mean, I might need to find a shoe designer.
Kate: I mean, I'm thinking of one pair of kind of independent shoe designer who I love who, I have one pair of her shoes, who, it's called Zouxou. Z O U X O U. And I'm obsessed with, I love her shoes. I have one pair of her, Mary Janes and she designs shoes. I'm trying to think of someone who is a shoe designer. We could also, who might know Feet. This is very niche. Are you out there?
Doree: Let us know.
Kate: Calling all Cobblers.
Doree: Calling all Cobblers.
Kate: I just was saying the word cobbler. It's such a great word. It bounces in your mouth. I love it.
Doree: It does. It really does.
Kate: Okay, well look, let's shift gears a little bit.
Doree: Let's shift gears. lets do that.
Kate: And bring out our guest.
Doree: Okay. Okay, I'm ready.
Kate: We have a really fun conversation to share with you all today. We talked to Brittany Luse, who is an award-winning journalist, honor host and cultural critic. She's the host of, it's Been a Minute. Love It's been a minute. And also for Colored Nerds. She previously hosted the Nod and Sampler podcasts and co-hosted an executive produced The Nod with Brittany and Eric, which was a daily streaming show. She's written for Vulture and Harper's Bazaar among many other places, and edited for the podcasts like Planet Money and not pasted it. Her work has been profiled by publications, the New York Times, the New Yorker, vulture Teen Vogue. And we just had the most fun chat.
Doree: She is. She's so fun. I have to say I love interviewing podcasters because they get it and she especially gets it.
Kate: I mean, she's an extremely talented, extremely good at what she does.
Doree: She's so good at what she does
Kate: In terms of being a producer, a host, an interviewer like Chef's Kiss.
Doree: So I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we enjoyed doing it and we'll, we'll be right back.
Kate: Brittany welcome to Forever35. We are very excited to have you here today.
Brittany: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here with y'all.
Kate: This is not a topic for the podcast, but I do just want to say that I'm obsessed with the green walls behind you. I love this color. I love this paint. Brittany's got like, it's the best green, I dunno how todescribe it.
Brittany: It's sweet basil. Oh, Benjamin Moore. I literally, there's like a, I don't know that it between any paint. I'm like not a big, not into diy. I don't like to, oh God, no. I don't like to DIY anything. But yeah, it was like lockdown. Mostly my husband and I are working at home. We still work in the same office in the same room at home all day long, which I really like. We both like it. We at this point do it by choice. But yeah, it was just looking so desolate here. This is a room with no windows. I don't know if either of you have one of those in your apartment, but in our apartment, a lot of New York apartments, sometimes it's a
Kate: Railroad situation.
Brittany: And so ours is just a straight, it just goes straight through. And so this is the room with no windows. And turns out I thought it would look worse to have a dark color on the walls, but it makes the room so much bigger and less it. I can't describe to you how terrible it looked when it had a high gloss. It wasn't my choice. It was a landlord thing. A high gloss white.
Doree: The green is perfect.
Brittany: Overhead lighting. What's that?
Doree: The green is perfect.
Brittany: Thank you. Thank you. I'm so proud. Yeah, because I did this myself and I was I
Doree: wow.
Brittany: against it.
Kate: Wow.
Brittany: Yeah. Yeah. So I literally was just like, okay, there's a hardware store. The corner, what? The paint that they have there is the paint that we will use.
Kate: Right. You weren't like Pinterest boarding paints.
Brittany: No, but one thing I did do is we, this is a couch, so this is not our living room. This couch is just a couch that we had and when we had lived in a smaller apartment and that had a smaller living room, and so we just moved it in here cause it fit perfectly in the office. And it's nice because my husband's a film editor, so he has people come over and watch a new cut or something and they can sit on the couch. But one thing I did do that was really anal repetitive was to go and get samples. Once we realized that we wanted to have green, we did the whole thing where you can actually go on the Benjamin Moore website and see which one works best. Then we went to the store and got different chips and put the greens up against the couch that we knew we were going to have. And then of the three or five that we thought were best, we got samples and put them on the wall and let them dry for a day. And that was how we picked. And it was perfect. I hated the fact that I had to follow through on something that much in order for it to work, but it unfortunately follow through.
Doree: Oh damn. It works all right.
Kate: You know, it's just interesting talking about paint color in the room and the high gloss white walls, which I think if anyone's ever been a renter, you have experienced and those can feel so soul sucking.
Brittany: Yes.
Kate: And we always kick off talking about self-care on the podcast, and I do really think the simple act of painting a wall or your space or adding color, I imagine the room must feel more soothing now working in it in this beautiful kind of foresty green than it was when it was a shimmering. LaCour Laco.
Brittany: It was, yes, it was shimmering. It was a shimmering white lacquer mess. And also me and my husband hadn't figured out our equipment situation. We both like him working in film and me working in audio, both have a very intense equipment situation. Behind me is a closet door there. You can probably see two little prongs there for the shoe hanger for 20 pairs of his sneakers. And then the inside is various cleaning supplies and just boxes and boxes of audio and film equipment and drives the people have sent over the past few years. So it was just, but all of those were on the floor behind us. It was just bad. It was a really bad situation. So now it's cute. And when I was freelancing, I used to nap on the couch all the time. I would just be like, you know what? I've had enough of this, whatever this is, I'm just going to lay down and close my eyes. So yeah, it is really nice to work in a nice office. My career coach was the main person who was like, we were going to do it. We were going to do it. We're going to do it. And then my career coach was like, girl, you need to get this together. The next time I talk to you in a month, this needs to be taken care of. And because I only respond to external pressure, I did it. We did it. But I love it.
Doree: Well, Brittany, we do usually to start off by asking our guests about a self-care practice that they have, is there something that you do regularly that you would consider self care?
Brittany: Yes, I am such a, I don't know if you can call yourself lapsed, if you're, you've always been lapsed at something, but I'm like a lapsed, wannabe, self-care girly. It just doesn't fully pan out for me. I don't know what it is. But in the morning, one of the things that has been the trickiest for me in the morning, I used to just respond to the external simuli of, I'm going to be late for work. I have to physically go into the office. That was what things were like for me before lockdown, before pre covid. It was like I got to be there. I would be late, but I was still, I had to go. So I was going to get up in the morning. I was going to do my thing, but I'm not a coffee drinker. I realized during the pan, I realized during lockdown that my husband would get up in the morning, have coffee, boom, that's his, his motivator. He's going to get up, he's going to have coffee. I mean, also he just likes, he's a lovely person in the morning, moving nice and slow and all this sort of stuff like that. Just chipping away at his day. I don't wake up that I wake up really with an attitude and really mean, but having a lot of energy. So I don't need coffee, but I'm so rude. So I was looking for something that would I could look forward to that would make me want to wake up and get up and eventually get moving. And also something that I actually am now 35, maybe I'll be 35 forever, but I actually am a 35 and I have decided that 35 that I'm not picking up any new habits that I'm not going to be able to have at 70. So wasn't going to start doing any type of, wasn't. I'm not going to get up and flip a tire in the mor. I want to do that shit. Can I say that?
Doree: Yeah, yeah.
Brittany: No. So I'm not going to get up in the morning and flip tires and do that type of shit. Just it's
Doree: You're referring to CrossFit? Yes.
Brittany: I don't know what they call it
Doree: Or whatever it is.
Brittany: I'm not familiar. Yeah, I stay away from all that. It could be witchcraft. As far as I know, I just stay out. It's not my business. And so I started meditating. So my therapist have been asked me to do it for, well, I haven't seen my therapist for 11 years. So at the time I really started meditating regularly. She'd been asking me to do it for a decade, and I would kind of do it off and on. I was like, girl, whatever. I'm like, this is not going to help me close my eyes. It's not going to help me. I need to be awake. I need to do it with my problems. And she was like, okay, whatever. I just started meditating every day for five minutes, and I still do it almost every day, even on the weekends. And then I will make a gratitude journal of three things that I'm grateful for. And then sometimes if I have some extra residue in my mind, then I'll write for a little bit longer about something that's bothering me or something I've discovered. And I really love it. Even if I don't do anything else, even if some days you just, it's not going to happen. Things just life. Yes, things are not going to happen even on days that I actually will still get up and meditate for at least five minutes and do my little gratitude journal. I guess for me it's coffee. I don't need energy in the morning. I need an attitude adjustment. And that is my attitude adjustment.
Kate: I noticed you mentioned your career coach and also your therapist, and it sounds like you have created a really great community of support for yourself. I'm especially curious about a career coach. What is it like to work with someone in that capacity if you're comfortable sharing? What was your intention in seeking it out and how has that relationship impacted your life and your career?
Brittany: That's a great question. So I have, I've not currently working with a career coach at B moment, but I was from late 2021 pretty much until I started working at NPR in September of 2022. So almost about a year. I was working with a career coach. Her name is Freya Blum. She's amazing. She's based in the uk, so she's got this authoritative, well, she's got this British accent that I'm sure if you're British, it's neutral and great. But to me, as an American from the Midwest, I find it very authoritative. And I'm just sort of, I just got to follow and do what she says too. But she's actually the second career coach that I've worked with. I work with somebody named Stacy Robbins, who is one of my older sister's best friends. And she needed coaching hours to help with her doctoral research or doctoral certification or something like that. And so when I was unemployed, let me back up. When I was unemployed in 2013, the reason why I was unemployed is cause I got fired from a motorcycle dealership because that's what I was doing at the time. I should not have been working there. I was the worst employee. I was unemployed, and I just was like, didn't really know what I was doing, how to make things work. I didn't know what was going on. But I was really, really, really intent on getting a new job. And I had all these systems and things like that to get things done. And I was really on it. When I think back on it, I was really driven to get a new job. It just wasn't working after a few months. And Stacy needed somebody to coach for free to get her hours. And so she worked with me and I ended up getting a job a couple months after working with her. So I saw the value in having a career coach pretty early on in my career. I was probably like 25 at that point in time and really hadn't yet settled into a long-term career path, but I still saw the utility in having that coaching role in your life or whatever in that area of my life. And then I started working with Freya actually by recommendation of my old co-host, Eric, one of his wife's friends had worked with her. She's a cookbook author, and she was raving about her. He had gotten in contact with her and he was like, oh, this lady's great. You should talk to her. I had been freelancing at that point for a a year, a couple years. And I was in the podcast space, I guess I still am, but I didn't know what I was doing. I mean, I kind of knew what I was doing, but I didn't know, rather I, I really needed some sort of help and accountability in figuring out what the next step in my career was going to look like. And also what I really wanted and how do I put this? I was doing a fine enough job freelancing in that, truthfully, I was really fortunate. People always have reached out to me for work. I've had to apply. Sometimes people are reaching out to invite me to apply for something like the job I have now. I had to apply for it and go through a lengthy interview process and whatnot. But most of the work that I got when I was freelancing for, I dunno, two or three years, was people just for, yeah, two and a half years or whatever, was just people being like, Hey, do you want to do this? Which was amazing. And so I wasn't having problems looking for work. I don't know if y'all have experienced this, but freelancing sometimes can just be kind of a mind fuck. You have to be your own, Admin, you have to be your own coworker. You have to be your own boss. And I was a terrible boss to myself, but I just was really struggling to clarify what value I was bringing to the work that I was doing. Not to say that I assumed that I wasn't bringing any value, but I was really trying to figure out, yeah, how do I put this? Yeah. I had worked at an organization for so long. I had worked at my old company, gilet Media for so long, for four and a half years. And also I had a great working partnership with my old co-host, but it was just also, who am I as an individual? Who am I outside of this organization? Who am I outside of this partnership? And it was really helpful to work with a career coach to help me clarify what I wanted to do next, how I wanted to get there, and also to become more confident and uniquely aware of what it is that I specifically bring to what I work on. Also too, just navigating the process of winding down. When I first started working at npr, bless them, I was actually still freelancing. So I was still hosting for Colored Nerds and producing that. And I also was still working on a project, another freelance project that was, took up a decent amount of time. So starting a full-time job with two other 10 to 20 hour a week freelance jobs was a lot. And I had an overlap of about two months where things were like that. So it was great to be able to have Freya to lean on as I was sort of going from freelance mode back into an organization. I had had some negative experiences working at for a large company before, and I wanted to figure out how to, I guess, be open to the experience that I could have working at npr. I was excited about it, but I still had, I guess, some fears around being in charge of a team again, you know what I mean? Learning a new organization. I was the new kid at school. A lot of people who work at NPR have been there for a long time. So it was really helpful to have somebody to lean on during that time of transitioning from freelance work to going back to a full-time paid job with benefits. And honestly, the transition was great. And I really think that having worked with a career coach through that process over the course of that year, I think that was a huge key sound, such a long answer. But
Doree: No, I'm sold on
Kate: Me too. I'm type tech career coach. Time for me to find one,
Doree: But
Kate: Also I think it's so nice. Sorry, Doree, I apologize for interrupting. I think it's just very nice to hear people talk about what's going on behind the scenes carrer wise. So often I'm just thinking of observing your careers. A person who has listened to you in various outlets for a while, my impression would be like, oh, Brittany has it all figured out, and just knew exactly the path that they were on, and that was it. So it's very helpful to know that there are moments of questioning or re-or personal reorganization or really digging into what your values and strengths are. And I appreciate hearing that so much.
Brittany: I try to be honest about things like that. Thank you. First of all, thank you so much for saying that. But I try to be honest about things like that because yeah, I don't ever want to make it seem like I would just know how to do anything because i dont. there, there'd be a lot of other things I'd have figured out in my life if I just knew how to do things. And I just think it's disingenuous when other people act like they figure things out on their own. And it also erases the work and contributions of other people that they invite into their lives. And I think that that's not a nice thing to do.
Doree: So important. So npr, you took over as the host of, it's Been a Minute in October, right?
Brittany: Yeah, I started working there in September, but I started working there on September 19th, and we began publishing episodes on October 7th.
Doree: I mean it, it's a very popular, some might say, iconic show. And what was it like to step into this new role, the Nod and for Colored Nerds? I were both shows that you kind of conceived of on your own with partners, but were your shows and now you're stepping into someone else's show, but as the host. And so I'm wondering what that experience has been like and how you have been putting your own stamp on things.
Brittany: Yeah, so the whole, it's been a minute thing really happened at the right time. And weirdly enough, it was something that, how about this? When I was in the process of, huh, working with my career coach, but just spending a lot of time journaling, meditating, paying attention to what freelance work I was really enjoying versus which things that were like, oh, this is cool, but I don't know if I need to do this again. And I got really clear on, and well, I'll say that I got really clear on what I wanted out of a next job. And I also got to a point freelancing where I loved it, but I also was just kind of mentally, a lot of people post pandemic, just mentally fraid. And I was like, I think it's time for me to go back to a job where I can be more collaborative, work with a larger team, have more support, again, also work with a larger team in terms of interact with more people on a daily basis. And so I wrote down on an orange post-it note, I keep orange post-It notes all over my desk. I wrote down an orange post-It note everything, this specific things that I was looking for. And the next job down from things in terms of, I knew I wanted to have some good bennies, I wanted to have some good benefits, but also I knew that I actually wanted to take over an existing show. I knew that I wanted to speak to a larger audience of people, and I really enjoy, I, I wanted to work with lots of different producers. I enjoy working on teams that are a little larger. I think it can be really fun to just see everybody sort of intermingle and to get, I don't know, get sting together on ideas. I just find that really fun. And also, I knew I wanted to talk about pop culture, and that was, those were the main things. I was really open to what that looked like. And as soon as I wrote that, post-it down, this is after Sam had already left the show, I wasn't even thinking about that job specifically. I assumed had already been filled. Someone from somebody who was, I think on the search committee or whatever for the role reached out. And when I was having that introductory phone call, I kept the post-it note on my desk specifically. So that as a decision making tools that when people called me for certain things, I knew what to say yes to and what to say no. Or at least I knew what to say yes to get to the next sort of thing. And that was like, I got to give myself credit because that was a me thing. That wasn't a quick question thing. Cause that was just a Brittany thing.
Doree: Love that.
Brittany: But yeah, so when I had that introductory phone call, I was like, wow, this was checking every, literally every single goal, every single desire that I had for a role. And like I said, I just assumed it had been filled. When I first heard that Sam was leaving, I was disappointed cause I listened to the show. But also, yeah, I mean, I was happy for him. I figured that he was going to be going on to something really great, which obviously he has, but I was not thinking at all. I wasn't even thinking of not freelancing anymore at that point in time. I just wasn't thinking about that as a job for me. So then when they reached out, I started to think about it differently and see myself in the role. And as I had gotten a lot clearer on what I actually wanted, it just felt like kismet. It was perfect. And even though the interview process was long or whatever, because of course they want to make sure that they're getting the right person in the role. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed putting together the test episode and enjoyed the conversations that I had with the people that I now have come to work with and who are now my colleagues. And like I said, I was nervous, larger audience taking over a show from a beloved host. And also even Sam left the show, I think five months before I actually began airing episodes. There were five months in between of phenomenal hosts, like guest hosts, like Anna Sale and Wanda Summers and NBA Parker. Just really smart, amazing people that the audience that stayed with the show had fallen in love with as well. So I mean, I was nervous, big shoes to fill and nervous to meet the team, but that was a challenge that I was looking for. I was looking to be in a position, I know how to come up with an idea for a show and get somebody to buy into that. I've done that a bunch of times, but I hadn't had the experience of coming into a room where a party had already been started and trying to get everybody to dance with me. It just, and sounds kind of silly, I guess, but it sounded kind of fun. It sounded really fun to me to approach the challenge of trying to entice a new audience and also to come into a team that had already been established and see how we could work together. And thus far, the listeners have been so receptive to me, so kind and really wonderful. I'm really glad they're vibing with my version of the show. But also the team has just been incredible. I like better than I ever could have imagined. Everybody is so smart and everybody's just a get shit done person, an entire team of get shit done, people with follow through and great ideas who are kind and funny and so smart. And it's been a joy to work on. I know it sounds so corny, but I was just really, I was totally ready for it, the exact type of challenge that I wanted. I felt that I was the best person for the job, and they agreed, which is good. And things have just gone really, really, really well, better than I even could have hoped.
Kate: Okay. Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. All right, we are back.
Doree: One thing that I'm really hearing from you is that because you kind of had this vision of what you wanted, what you were looking for, that when it came along, you knew that it was the right thing. And I think having that clarity of vision, whether it was because of your career coach or whatever else, is so important and so hard to nail down. So that's amazing that you were able to do that and kind of have that almost visual in front of you so that when this opportunity came around, you could just kind of jump on it.
Brittany: Yeah, it is really cool. I mean, I always cringe when people talk about love attraction, which is not what I'm going to do now, because I just don't think it's real. But I do think that the principles or the exercises that people tell you do with things like that, or I assume that they tell you, I don't know. I don't wade in those waters. But a lot of the people talk about visualization and all that sort of stuff. I think, or even when I wrote down the Post-It of what I was looking for, I also wrote down a list of things, the qualities I was looking for in a partner like that. I would revise a lot before I met my husband. It's not so much, I think what it is, is not, I don't think it's magic, but it's, I just think of it as an evaluation tool. I think constantly check in with yourself. Having people outside of myself such as a career coach, or even friends or my husband, sometimes my parents that I can just check in with and talk things through with. Yeah, it just keeps me aware of what it is that I actually want. And I find, I don't know, in my experience when I've lied about what I actually want, I get the shit that I don't want. And then I'm unhappy when I'm honest with my, and I've done that before when I'm honest with myself about what I want, and I actually put it out there, talk to people about it, but also write it down and have it some place where I can literally just physically see it myself. It makes it such that I have an evaluation tool. That's all I think about. It is an evaluation tool. Yeah,
Kate: I love this. I think this is so, such a good advice, and I don't know, it's you're providing yourself with feedback and a resource that you have at your disposal, so it's just a handy tool.
Doree: What stories do you feel like, or people do you feel like are undercovered in pop culture right now?
Brittany: That's such a good question. I think that RnB as a genre of music is actually undercovered in pop culture. I think it is one of the most vibrant and rich musical genres. That's, I mean, how do I put this? It's right now we're in this period where people are saying that hip hop is really dead. It's the same way that rock and roll is dead. That it's basically, it's rain. As the prevailing youth culture is starting to diminish it's sunset. I think that, I can't remember the exact stats or where they came from or whatever, but I remember there being some recent statistic about how hip hop was the most, it was the best selling genre, I think, of music for however many years. And I think that that is not happening anymore. Something like that in the past couple of years. And there's all these different, I don't think hip hop culture can die. I don't think that's possible. Although I think that rock and roll culture is absolutely dead. I don't think hip hop culture could die. Yes. But I do, you know, see so many different types of musical genres, like American musical genre, American popular musical genres, sort of rise and fall, rise and fall, and RnB is so consistent and has one of the most engaged listener ships of people who buy the music, know the music, engage with the artists, and actually pay for merchandise and to go to shows. And I just find that so interesting that there are a decent amount of RnB artists that maybe aren't necessarily household names, especially not to white people, but to their fans. They're able to tour consistently, make good livings, and actually continue to put out music into their forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, into the decades where especially female artists are told that nobody wants to hear from you anymore. So I don't know. That's something that I think about sometimes on the episode of, it's been a minute that's coming out that probably just dropped right now. In the time that we've been recording, I spoke with Maya Montag Smuckler, who wrote this book called Liberating Hollywood, which is about just the period of the 1970s when more and more women began to direct films still between, I believe, 1967 and 1980, only 16 women directed Hollywood feature films during that period.
Doree: Whoa.
Brittany: More than 16 films, but 16 women.
Doree: Wow.
Brittany: I believe directed films during that period. I know.
Doree: Wow.
Brittany: I know. And this is during the birth of independent cinema, and when directors like Francis Ford Coppola and Steven Spielberg are getting there, they're footing. And also all of those women were white. And that comes after a period between the mid 1930s to the mid 1960s where only two women directed Hollywood feature films, only two, that whole 30 year period. Right? Oh my God. The period that preceded, that was the silent era where there were 57 women who worked during that period directing films. And some of them had out, the silent films were shorter, but some of them had creative outputs of hundreds of films over the course of their careers. It still wasn't like 50% or anywhere near half of the people who were directing films during that period, during the Silent era were women. But it was still a notable drop. Right.
Doree: Yeah.
Brittany: Anyway, I had a great conversation with her where she sort of laid out the history of women directors in American cinema and how we get to this moment where there is this shutout in the best director category at the Academy Awards, not just shut out for women directors who have been nominated in other categories, or whose films have been nominated in other categories. But also, I think about a film like Women King, directed by Gina Prince Spicewood, which was completely shut out of the Academy Awards absolutely no nominations, and was definitely one of the most well done films that I saw last year. And Jennifer Spicewood is a director who has incredible body of work who can go toe to toe with any of these men, I believe that they've nominated. And some of the men I like No shade. But yeah, I think that Hollywood is such a specific American invention, and it's like, it's a huge creative output, but also the biggest propaganda machine that our country has. It's one of the biggest propaganda machines in the world, I think if you look at it in a certain light, and I think that it is, but it also has the power in some positive ways, really shape people's lives and touch them on a deep level. And I think that there's something really nefarious and bad about the fact that at least half of the population is shut out from being at the helm of that type of output. I'm not saying I want women to do propaganda too, but more so I just wonder fundamentally how different, I just wonder how different the film industry would be if it had been. There was never that, I don't know. I guess if there was never that big stumbling block coming out of the silent era into the talkies up through now, it's just so, it just seems really tainted and bad and rough. But yeah, those are two things that I'm like, that I wish we talked about more in pop culture.
Kate: Yeah, I mean, I think Magic Mike three last dance would've been a lot better, perhaps directed by somebody else. It maybe also written by somebody else.
Brittany: Yeah. It was really surprising to me for that film to come out in 2023 that it wasn't directed by a woman. It was just really, really surprising to me. But ultimately, who makes these decisions, their studios, and who are the studios full of? So yeah, those are two. Yeah. It's so wild when you really actually get deep into who's directing in Hollywood, who has power, and the images that we see and how they're like, they can either, I don't know, entertain us, heal us, or taint our brains. It's just, ugh, its a lot.
Kate: And who gets to stick around, who gets one chance, and then they're out, and who gets to stick around and keep failing and for some reason never leave.
Brittany: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So those are two of my little thoughts.
Kate: How do you think Gen Z is influencing pop culture? I mean, aside from just being on TikTok, which we all know that they're doing, but do you see other ways in which they are steering or different directions they're steering pop culture toward?
Brittany: That's a really good question. I think that Gen Z, one of the coolest parts of freelancing was being able to meet a lot of different teams and work with a lot of different people. And over the past couple of years, gen Z has entered the workforce. And so I've, over the past few years, I've met and gotten to connect with a number of Gen Z colleagues, and I love working with them. But I think that, I guess as having a very millennial viewpoint, cause I'm smack in the middle of the millennial age group, I think that Gen Z is a generation of people who have always had the internet. Even me being born in 1987, I know people who are Gen X and who are, or exons is, my beloved calls himself. Sometimes people who were born in the early eighties or late seventies or whatever, or before then are always, we're the last generation who grew up without the internet. The thing is, I think there's a big difference between having one home computer that everybody in your house shared, right? And having a smartphone, which is something that I didn't have until I graduated from college. Or maybe I was an undergrad and I had a, and I'm Is a Blackberry really a smartphone? Oh, let's, let's be real about that.
Kate: We could debate that forever.
Brittany: Yeah. Is it?
Kate: So maybe not.
Brittany: Exactly. So I think that the internet, I don't know. I grew up for the first 10 years of my life without even really having an email address or anything like that, I was 10, 11 years old. The idea of doing anything other on the computer other than playing a couple games maybe was just not a part of my life. And it wasn't how me and my friends communicated with each other. You remember back in the day, you sent a text message, it could take a day or two to get to the other person got there at all. So I, I'm really impressed with how just Gen Z people use, I don't know, just with how much information they have. I think they're so informed and so aware of so many different things that I just wouldn't have been aware of when I was their age, and that wouldn't have also just wasn't aware of when I was their age. And so I find that with the Gen Z creators that I follow, or Gen Z celebrities or things that Gen Z writers and things like that, things that they're covering, they come from such a more deeply informed perspective, I think, than previous generations. And they're very thoughtful in engaging lots of different perspectives to be able to have a really well-rounded and informed take. And also to me, seem less beholden to the idea that they came into a given situation with or a given topic with and more in invested in the idea of gaining new information and then forming a viewpoint about something. So I find that to be really, and I don't find that all the time across the board, my generation, you don't find that as you go up the, yep. Yeah. As you go up in age, you don't find that quality. So I think that's really impressive. And I think it, it's something, I don't know. I think that if older generations were less resistant to thinking in that way, that, and being open to Gen Z leadership, I think that it could be a good thing. But I think that that's reflected in the media that it seems appeals to. I mean, especially, I'm thinking maybe younger Gen Z, maybe college or high school seems like that's more apparent in, I don't know, in the way that they engage with the internet and the things that Gen Z people seem to be interested in. But that's, from my view, as an old ass lady, that's,
Doree: I mean, we're smart guess. Yeah, we're both in that, I guess, Xen cohort. So yeah. I mean, I didn't get my first email till college, but yeah, it's funny to hear you say that because I have always thought of you're closer in age to my younger sister, and I've always thought of her as she grew up with the internet, but she didn't in the same way, to your point, she didn't, in the same way that Gen Z grew up with the internet, she didn't have a smartphone. She just had aim on the family computer, which is different. So yeah, that's an interesting thing to think about. Brittany, I wish we could talk to you for a few more hours, but we will respect your time. It's been such a delight to get to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming on the show and chatting with us. Where can our listeners find you?
Brittany: You can find me on Twitter or Instagram @BMLouse, L U S E B as in Britney, M as in my middle name, that I'm not going to tell you. Luse. L u s e. And also you can find me on the podcast feed every Tuesday and Friday on, it's been a minute. From N P R, we have Fresh episodes coming to you every Tuesday and Friday. And then if you are an NPR station, me like, yeah, if you're an NPR member station listener, then you can listen to npr. Usually on Saturdays and Sundays. There are some stations where it comes out on Friday night. But yeah, we usually come out on the weekends. Check your local member station listings to see when you can listen. But yeah, that's pretty much where you can find me. You can also follow npr. It's been a min on Twitter. Okay. And also too, yeah, if you do listen to the show, let us know what you think about it. If you like it. That's great. We had a good time. We have a great time making it. So I hope that comes through.
Doree: That comes, I was just going to say that comes across. Yeah, that definitely comes across.
Brittany: Thank you.
Doree: Well, thank you, Brittany. This was really fun.
Brittany: Thank you. This was so much fun.
Kate: You know, Doree, one thing that we did not get to with Britney, which I do wish we had talked about, is her meeting the Real Housewives of Bravo Con.
Doree: Yes. Well, I just want to mention that it was on our document to talk about with her, but we just had so much to talk about that we didn't even get to it. We didn't want to make this episode four hours long, but maybe it should have been.
Kate: I mean, we could always, fingers crossed, try to collab again.
Doree: Okay. Alright.
Kate: Especially now that I'm watching more Bravo as I dig my way through season two of Vander Pump rules to try to catch up on all the hottest pump goss after the Scandoval of all I've like started, I've like hm, might as well watch 500 episodes of this 10 year old show. So I'm ready for more Bravo talk. I think. I think I'm there.
Doree: Yeah. We've been circling this topic.
Kate: We've been buzzing around Bravo. I just do want to say, having made my way through the first season of Vanderpump, and now in the second, it's 2013, they are wearing the Chunkiest necklaces you've ever seen. They have like, literal
Doree: Oh my god yes
Kate: Chains with jewels. It's just the fashion has shifted so much over 10 years. These people would not be caught dead in these chunky necklaces now.
Doree: Wow.
Kate: And I remember that was the time when I was interviewing a lot of celebrities at junkets, and my outfit was always a blazer and a massive chunky necklace. That was my look.
Doree: I was just talking about this with someone because I was in a J crew and they've never stopped selling same costume jewelry that they've been selling since the early aughts. It's the same sort of big chunky Wow. I'm just trashing brands today.
Kate: It's interesting. You're trashing j I had a Renaissance with J Crew and I'm like back on the J crew wagon,
Doree: But with their jewelry?
Kate: Oh no, not with their jewels. No. But with their clothes. I've bought a lot of J crew recently.
Doree: Well, they do have tall. Don't they?
Kate: They do have tall. Yeah, they do. And they've had tall, actually, they were one of the first.
Doree: Yeah, remember they were early to tall.
Kate: Early to tall. They finally looked up and noticed people taller than five foot seven, and they were like,
Doree: oh my God.
Kate: Maybe you also need pants that fit your legs.
Doree: No, you're so silly.
Kate: Oh my God. My poor ankles have been exposed for so long.
Doree: They're nice ankles.
Kate: They're weathered because they haven't had proper coverage since 1979. Anyway.
Doree: Oh My goodness.
Kate: We are just toot a looting around Bravo.
Doree: We are. We're toot a looting.
Kate: So do you want us to make a Bravo podcast? Let us know.
Doree: I'll just leave it at that.
Kate: Yeah, let us know if you want to listen to these two middle-aged women. Talk about Tom Sandoval's ninth, his hair. Cause what is happening, are you just, and then I'll stop. Are you focused on Tom Sandoval? He is a lot of fashion problems. Oh my God. I'll stop. We'll talk about it later. All right.
Doree: All right.
Kate: So what's your intention this week? What was it last week? Okay. I've lost track of where we are.
Doree: The last week I was going to make a couple of other doctor's appointments and I just didn't, I just didn't.
Kate: Thats Okay.
Doree: Yeah. It is what it is. I did. I did however, email my son's doctor because I didn't have his upcoming checkup on my calendar. And I was like, Hey, when's this appointment? And they were like, it's May 4th. And I was like, great. And then I said, may the fourth be with, no. I didn't say,
Kate: oh, No you didn't.
Doree: No, I didn't. Didn't say that. So that was my nod to making doctor's appointments.
Kate: Good job, Doree.
Doree: This week I might try to get some shoes that fit.
Kate: That seems reasonable.
Doree: Thanks.
Kate: Will you model them for it? If you get a pair after this episode, will you post which pair you decide on to the gram?
Doree: I will. I sure will.
Kate: Okay. Thank you.
Doree: Kate, did you have patience last week?
Kate: I think I did. Although it was graded very thin. We're recording this a little bit ahead of time just because of the aforementioned road trip I'm going on. So we just kind of went through daylight savings time over the last couple of weeks, and boy does that throw everything off.
Doree: It does
Kate: For me, does. I was going to bed so late last night and I was like, what is wrong with me? So I'm so confused about what my body needs. Anyway, I think I did. I think I made it through and I do feel like a variety of things have kind of been helping me have more patients.
Doree: Oh, nice.
Kate: Part of it's like working with my therapist, my A D H D meds I think helps. I'm a little bit giving myself a little bit more grace on things.
Doree: Oh, nice.
Kate: This week I just want to be present. I'm excited to go on this trip with my family. We don't always get really good quality time. We're going to be spending a lot of time in the car because we're driving everywhere. So I just want to take in these natural wonders that I've never seen before. Just I'm really excited to just kind of try to pause for a week, silence my phone and just be present.
Doree: That sounds great.
Kate: With my family and nature.
Doree: That sounds great.
Kate: Well, Doree, thanks for doing this with me.
Doree: Thanks for doing this with me.
Kate: You're on the Forever35 podcast, which is hosted and produced by us, Doree Shafrir and Kate Spencer, and it's produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager, and our network partner is Acast. Thank you all so much for listening.
Doree: Bye.