Kate leans into her Italian heritage and takes a cooking class, and Doree prepares to celebrate the Jewish New Year and contemplates a fall cleaning. Then, chef and restaurateur Christine Ha — also the first (and only) blind winner of Masterchef — joins them to talk about what self-care in the restaurant industry looks like to her, the three kitchen tools every home cook should have, and what it was really like behind the scenes of Masterchef. 

Photo Credit: Horizon Therapeutics

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Transcript

Kate: Hello, and welcome to forever 35, a podcast, all about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I am Kate Spencer.

Doree: I'm Doree Shafrir and we are not experts.

Kate: No, we're not, but we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

Doree: And before we kick into the show, a friendly reminder that you can visit our website for 35 podcast for links to everything we talk about here on the show. Our Twitter is forever 35 pod and our Instagram is forever 35 podcast. You can join the forever 35 Facebook group where the password is serums. Shop our favorite prods at shop my.us/forever 35. We've got that for 35 newsletter at 35 podcast.com/newsletter. And if you have something to say to us, we wanna hear it, leave us a voicemail, or send us a text message at 7 8 1 5 9 1 0 3 9 0, where you can always email us forever five podcast Gmail.

Kate: Indeed, you can. I also just wanna remind everyone that we are in the early stages of planning a big forever. I really hope we do this.

Doree: And we are doing this in partnership with a very cool company called Truva trip. And as part of that, we are running a survey to figure out where we should go, what we should do, how long we should go for how much this should cost, whether Kate should do a yoga class. I mean, what if I did a butt care workshop? I mean, look, anything is on the table.

Kate: We can do it. I mean, look, let's dream big dream wide dream far, indeed. Um, so we have a link to that in the show notes. The URL is, um, if anyone wants the URL, it is my dot trova trip.com/public/l/survey/forever 35 dash podcast. So easier to just click on it from the show notes.

Doree: Um, and then also don't forget our Bo about our balance bound collab. I mean the cutest collab in all the, in, in all the world that is reminding me to check our Instagram, to see if people have tagged us in any more of their cute mech. I love when people tag us, please reshare. Yes, Ugh. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. This person put a reframe the narrative sticker on their water bottle.

Kate: Wouldn't you love to just like see them walking by the street and be like, Hey, it's me.

Doree: Yes. So cute. So you can shop that@balancebound.co um, slash shop slash forever five. And we will also link to that in the show notes, but yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna want some of this merch it's soups. Cute.

Kate: Doree. Doesn't say so's cute for just anything.

Doree: I really don't. I mean, I'm a discerning consumer.

Kate: Yeah. You don't throw the soups around for just regular old merch.

Doree: Uh, no, it's, it's really, it's really, really cute.

Kate: So, uh, Doree, I wanted to share with you that after much talk about how I dream of tapping into my Italian heritage, Anthony and I went and took an Italian cooking class this weekend and it was so wonderful. And so say like therapeutic, but just a joyful experience. It was so much

Doree: Hear that. Can you tell us some highlights and like, what did you learn? How to,

Kate: Okay, so we took a class at Italy here in Los Angeles with chef Fabio. He was Italian and it was chef Fabio. I know, look. And he look, I mean, I think all Italians are charming and adorable. So I was of course, like Sao, uh, but we took a class on like three, the three kind of most traditional basic Roman sauces. So we did Cacho pep, which is just a cheese, uh, right. What did we do? What was the other a carbonara? And then I'm gonna, I'm not gonna say it, right, because look, I don't speak Italian, but Ima, which is, um, GU Chale and tomato sauce basically. And one of the most, it was so good. Everything was so delicious. We had wine pairings throughout, which was very fun. And one of the most kind of illuminating things for me was how simple these sauces are.

Like, I've always kind of made variations of these, but yes, they really focused on like Kio eppe is literally just the cheese and the pasta water. There's no butter, there's no cream. I was shocked cause I've always made this with like oil and butter. Like I just kind of throw it together. So it was really, really, really fun. I would definitely make these recipes again. Um, I just had, I was fun to do it with Anthony and I will also say like one kind of fun LOL Los Angeles. Part of it was that it was, uh, Anthony, me another couple, a family of three people. And then dare I say, A-list an A-list celebrity who was there on their own to learn how to cook.

Doree: I love that so much.

Kate: And they were, they were wonderful and sweet. We had like all kind of paired up and worked together and it was really fun. And um, I'm not gonna say, and they were

Doree: Just like chill and like down to earth and

Kate: So nice. They were just like, I don't know how to cook. So I'm here to learn. And I was, I was, oh gosh. And I, of course being a person who, you know, like I kind of know who, I wouldn't know if like a star of Vanderpump rules walked in. Like I don't, I wouldn't. I be able to identify Chelle from selling sunset.

Doree: Okay. I know that's

Kate: She,

Doree: She looks a lot different now, but anyway, go on. <laugh>

Kate: Well, hello. But I, you know, so I'm not like the celebrity identifier, but this person was pretty, you know, recognizable and they were very kind and that it's always like, you know, dorky fun in LA when you're like, Ooh, Jay Leno just drove by. Like, it's always kind of fun. You know, as long as you give those people, their privacy in their space, I did not dare breathe a word of me being like, I know who you are. Hi, love your work. I don't roll. I don't that way. Yeah. I mean, I'm painfully

Doree: Shy. I'm so glad. Yeah. I'm so glad that you guys got to do this.

Kate: It was really, really fun. It was fun to do together. It was fun. I felt like I really learned, um, which was really exciting. I would definitely, I wanna take a pasta making class because I really don't have that down. As I told the chef and he was like, really? I think, meaning like it's so easy. And I was like, yes, I don't for someone who's an Italian file. Italian file. What's it called when you're kind of into a

Doree: File.

Kate: Yeah. For someone who's, you know, dream in a Italy, I don't know how to make my own pasta not well, so that that's gonna be my next class. If you're interested in taking a pasta making class story, just throwing that out there.

Doree: I might be actually really, I love yeah, there is. I love homemade pasta. It is so delicious. It's so

Kate: Delicious. It's so much better.

Doree: It's so good. It, yeah. It is one of those things where you're like, this is, it is like noticeably better. Mm-hmm <affirmative> you taste regular. Yeah. I mean, look, I hardly ever make it even, you know, even the more expensive, like fresh pasta you get at the grocery store. That's like in the refrigerated case, you know what I'm talking about?

Kate: I do it's D

Doree: That, that tastes better than dry past dry pasta is delicious too. But when you have that fresh pasta, it's like,

Kate: Oh yeah, baby. It's so freaking good.

Doree: It's so good. So yeah, I would, maybe I would be into that. Kate Spencer, I mean, pasta making is also a possibility for a potential activity on a potential forever 35 trip. I'm just gonna say

Kate: That I'm not gonna handle it. If we go on a forever 35 trip to Italy, I'm gonna be the most annoying person on the trip. Oh my God. If we were in Italy, I would be so annoying. That would be you wouldn't. It would be so annoying. I would be the person who like acts thinks they know it all, but doesn't actually really know anything. That would be my persona on that trip. No, you know, you

Doree: Know what? It would be amazing if you, if you started doing like Italian on duo lingo and you started like loudly saying things in Italian, but like with a really big American accent, like you were that American tourist.

Kate: That is basically what I was like when I did have the wonderful opportunity of going to Italy. About five years ago, I was like, oh, Prego. Like, I just am inseparable. <laugh> I am one quarter Italian and I lean into it. It's not that much I did, but I'll take it.

Doree: You know, that I did take, I took Italian for a year at grad school. I took like an intensive Italian class.

Kate: And do you still retain any of it?

Doree: Not a ton. A little bit. That's but not time.

Kate: It'll it'll come back on this trip that we're gonna maybe take

Doree: Totally <laugh>.

Kate: Well, I look for that would be really fun to actually do so I will, I will follow up with you on that. Uh what's what's going on in your neck of the woods, as I believe they say on the today show.

Doree: Well, I just wanted to share a funny anecdote. Um, so my son today, you know, Henry's three and this morning he and his nanny went to this, uh, children's museum in Los Angeles. And I guess they have, they had this little display with like an old rotary phone and then a little, um, speech bubble above it, painted on the wall that says, call on me like very cute. And our nanny sent me this text and she said, I said, look a phone. He was right next to it and spun a few times and said where <laugh>

Kate: Oh, Doree <laugh>.

Doree: And I was like, yeah. I mean, how would he know what a rotary is?

Kate: It looks nothing like phones today. It looks nothing like a,

Doree: Nothing like a phone. And she, this picture of him like inspecting it, like really looking at it closely, like, what

Kate: Is look at this, this ancient tool <laugh> it's so

Doree: Really gave me a chuckle.

Kate: It's so weird that our past is like an, is old. You like, whenever you're like, whenever I'm listening to the rating and it's like oldies from the two thousands and it, I just shutter because <laugh>, I still, you know, I think you never feel like your thing is now the old thing or the outdated thing or the, and it also feels so recent. It feels like it was just, I don't know yesterday.

Doree: I know.

Kate: Anyway, what else are up to anything new going on over there as we shift seasons?

Doree: Well, Kate, um, you know, Jewish holidays, like the, the Jewish new year coming up in about a month,

Kate: Really? Right around the corner.

Doree: Um, really right around the old corner. And, you know, I've, I've discussed on the pod. How I do really feel like to me September really does feel like the start of the, of a new year, like both because of the Jewish new year, but also because of like back to school and like just feels like there's a lot of like new beginnings in September.

Kate: Sure.

Doree: So I do feel like it's often a time for me to kind of like take stock. And so I'm thinking about fall cleaning. Like I know people often talk about spring cleaning, but I'm thinking about fall cleaning.

Kate: Is there one area of the home that you're thinking about? Because it's, it's funny, you mentioned this I've recently started doing this. My, our house is truly a disaster and I did a little bit of this just yesterday. So I'm curious, where, where are you kind of starting off in this journey?

Doree: Well, selfishly, I think I'm, I wanna start in my office.

Kate: That's not selfish.

Doree: I did recently. I did like an initial cleaning off of my desk. I still have a ways to go, but like I did, like, there were just like piles. Like I had no idea what was under. I like found my <laugh>. I had said to my piano teacher a couple weeks ago, I was like, I somehow lost my metronome, which is weird because like, it never like goes anywhere. But then I found it was buried in my desk Uhhuh.

So it's like that kind of vibe. Um, I also have all these like bags of like, Henry's old clothes that I'm like, am I selling these? Am I donating them? Like, what am I doing with, with this stuff? You know what I mean? Yeah. And I need to, I need to figure that out, make a decision. There's also like a pile of his old toys that I just, I need to just get out of the house. But he keeps like finding and being like, I still play with this. And I'm like, this is for literal six months old. Like you do not play with this

Kate: <laugh> but

Doree: He

Kate: Does. But I know, I mean, I know they, my kids hold onto things like that all the time.

Doree: Yeah. And like, sometimes it is cute to see him like rediscover in old toy. And like, he definitely plays with it differently than he used to and blah, blah, blah. But like, I'm also like, come on, dude. Like you, you, you don't, you don't need these like soft blocks

Kate: <laugh> deal with it.

Doree: You know what I mean?

Kate: Yeah. But it's also

Doree: Like on me for it's also. Yeah. It's also on me for not like getting rid of this stuff in a more timely fashion.

Kate: Well, you also have to do it in like the dead of night when they're not around.

Doree: Oh, totally. Yes.

Kate: Yes. Well, I recently did a bit of a shower reorganization and I, I had a lot of empties in the shower or a lot of like almost empties that I hold onto because they're not empty. You know, the almost empty, the almost empty can live in your world for years. Like, cuz you're just like, well there's a drop left. I'll just keep holding on. And then all of a sudden five years go by and you're like, oh, you still, uh, ha have residence in my shower. So I have done a big dig through of all those kind of like moldy containers with still with a little bit of stuff in them. And I'm getting rid of them. It's very hard for me to get rid of stuff that still has a little bit of product in there. So I'm trying to use what I can.

Doree: You are reminding me that I need, there's like a big bottle of conditioner in my shower that has like a literal drop left that I, I need to

Kate: Saving the drop. Like the there's nothing wrong with the frugality behind it. Just have to do

Doree: It, but I can't even like get it. I can't even like get it out.

Kate: I know I had Doree, I had this bottle of empty face wash. I think I've already mentioned this, this OC of face wash that I love and I can't get anymore out even with a tiny spatula as per recommended, but I just held onto it. Like maybe I could still, you know, like that kind of wistful, like maybe, maybe you're in there.

Doree: Hmm.

Kate: Well let's keep at it. Let's do a little bit of like a fall dig through.

Doree: Yeah. Is it assumed that when we do this sort of like dig through of material objects, that we will also be excavating our own attachments and emotions surrounding these objects and therefore come to a deeper understanding of ourselves?

Kate: What,

Doree: What did I just say? <laugh>

Kate: Wow. I think, yes. I mean truly like shouldn't we all be on this journey, aren't we all like ultimately isn't that what we wanna try to dig into and learn about ourselves?

Doree: Yes.

Kate: I mean, or you can just toss the conditioner bottle, but no, but that's

Doree: I do think

Kate: It helps. I think it helps to do a little bit of ex emotional exploring as we do these things.

Doree: Totally.

Kate: Wow. I'd love to hear how people are kind of approaching fall because even though it's, you know what the end of August, oh God, it's right around the corner. Oh, just saying the end of August. Oh no.

Doree: Yeah. You know, and I think about this, I I'm like forced to think about this a lot because Henry is obsessed with, um, in a, like, I feel like a corollary to his being obsessed with numbers is he's also obsessed with like the calendar sure. And seasons and like asking like when is it going to be fall all. And so I'm always being like September 21st and now it's like coming up <laugh> so

Kate: Here it is, dude,

Doree: Here it is. Here it is.

Kate: I always have a hard time transitioning to fall. So I'll work on that this year. Well, we had a really, really great conversation with our guest today. Christine ha oh, um, it was so fun to talk to her actually. How appropriate that I speak of my cooking class. Yes. When we have an actual James Beard nominated chef on the show today,

Doree: Totally so appropriate.

Kate: Uh, Christine was the first blind contestant on master chef and she won the show's third season. She won it all. She's also renowned restaurant tour, entrepreneur and author. She's the proud restaurant owner of two establishments based in Houston, the blind goat and scene chow. And she was born and only child in Los Angeles to parents who immigrated from Saigon, following the Vietnam war in 2003, at 23 years old, she was diagnosed with neuromyelitis optica spectrum disorder, which is known as NM O S D an unpredictable autoimmune disease caused by inflammation in the central nervous system. And she began losing her vision by 2007, she was almost completely blind. She's also authored a New York times bestselling cookbook recipes from my home kitchen. I mean, look, no big deal. She's done. TEDx talks. Most importantly, she's just a funny and interesting and compelling person to talk to. And she's so cools us what to buy for our kitchens. Like she gives us, oh, you know what? One of the tools she bought, I immediately went out and ordered and it's already arrived. That's how ahead of the game I am. You're gonna wanna, yeah, you're gonna wanna get this. I got

Doree: That for you.

Kate: Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to try to emulate everything Christine told us to do.

Doree: All right. Well, Kate, let's take a little break. And when we come back, we will be talking to Christine. Well, Christine, we are so excited to have you on forever 35. Welcome to the show.

Christine Ha: Thank you for having me.

Doree: Yeah. This is such a treat. Um, I guess the only thing that would make it better is if we could actually be eating some of your food right now, but alas know that we'll have to wait

Christine Ha: Until food is good, then we would be all silent. There'd be no interview. Right?

Kate: That's true. Just

Doree: I eating on a podcast is not, yeah, it's not ideal, but we'll have to Kate. I feel like we will need to make a pilgrimage to Houston.

Kate: Oh yes. Like

Doree: Eat at Christine's restaurants

Kate: In preparing for this interview. I was watching old master chef videos and I was, <laugh> like, it's almost lunchtime and everything you make looks so good. Christine, like just delicious.

Christine Ha: Thank you.

Kate: Also, everybody, you know, in the old clips you have like Gordon Ramsey, Ram like raving about it. So it really just added to the experience of wanting to eat everything that you cook. So I'm with you Doree. I would love to go to Houston.

Doree: Okay. Let's do it. Okay. Deal. Um, Christine, we like to start off our interviews by asking our guests about a self-care practice that they have. So is there something that you do for yourself that you would consider self-care?

Christine Ha: Yes. I didn't think self-care was important until I was older. And part of it, I think is just, uh, being more mature and having the financial freedom to think more about things that you once did not think was a necessity. But, uh, so now I things like getting a full body massage or taking the time out to UN unplug, like turning off my, the ringer on my phone, the notifications on my phone dedicating like a certain time. Um, when I felt like I've had a full Workday and I just want to kind of disconnect or unplug and take time out to spend with my husband or with my dog or with my friends, uh, perhaps, um, having a glass of wine or just eating some good food. I think self care is not only, um, very much a physical thing, but also very much emotional and mental.

And that doesn't always mean, you know, people think of self-care as perhaps going to yoga or making sure that you, um, meditate. But I think also it's, it's about taking care of your emotional desires as well. And sometimes that means having a piece of cake and that makes you happy and that's okay. So I'm always, uh, a firm believer in everything in moderation. So for me personally, self-care means taking the time out to get my massages so that my muscles aren't so tense when I'm working, uh, a lot and, uh, learning to be okay with disconnecting and unplugging certain times of the day or of the week to dedicate myself to what the things that, you know, matter most to us, our families, our pets, our friends.

Kate: Was that a learned practice for you because it is, it can be really hard to turn off in that way, even if it's just like turning off the actual notifications or making ourselves just kind of sit in quiet. Did you, did you kinda have to almost train yourself to do that? Or was it something that really just happened organically out of necessity?

Christine Ha: I would say it was a little bit of both, but probably more of a trained thing. I think one being a woman and also being an Asian American woman, uh, growing up in that sort of, uh, family household with those certain dynamics, we're always taught to keep doing, doing, doing and silently O like always obeying and always saying yes, and then holding in all of our negativity or our so we're, I feel like especially, yes, as a woman, we're constantly told that we should say yes and just kind of suck it up and always, always do things for our families, for our children, our spouses, our bosses, our colleagues, our friends, our neighbors. And I think it took me a long time and I would say I'm still not great at perfect at it. It, I think it's a lifelong journey to get to that point, but I feel like there have been times when I've been close to burnout and I realize that I need, and everyone operates in a different way.

I think, you know, some people, their threshold is higher than others. And I think at a certain point, I was like, I, I cannot do everything all the time. And I'm, I'm not that, that superhero that maybe a lot of people think I am. And it was hard, I think to step back at first because we often pride ourselves in how much we can get done or how much we're accomplishing and so much of our lives. And what we think is, uh, uh, like the accomplishments in our lives are born of the productivity. I think that we, that comes out of it. And I think it's, it's changing that mindset and realizing that slowing down is also something very, uh, courageous and worthy. Uh, and so I always encourage my staff too, that yes, you work hard, but I think, you know, you play hard or rest hard or whatever it is also because it is so important to take care of yourself so that you don't burn out.

You don't feel, uh, tired to keep, to be motivated and to keep doing your work. Because if you don't take care of your yourself, then there's no way you can take care of other people. And so it really, it, it was really a many, many years, uh, before I could get to this point, I think where I'm okay with stepping back. And I had to teach myself too, that the world is not going to end if I don't answer my every single phone call or every single text at that immediate moment. And that's, that's hard to, to change your mindset on,

Kate: Oh, that's such a hard one. I think the, the culture of the way in which we receive messages now makes us feel like if we don't answer it immediately, we're not being respectful or, I mean, it's, it's a real to not just click that response. So fast is a real learned behavior. I found mm-hmm <affirmative> it also seems like burnout is an especially prevalent issue in the world of restaurants, kitchens, chefs. I mean, it's such an intense career. Um, and so to model that, not just for yourself, but for your employees is I think really, um, impressive.

Christine Ha: <laugh>, uh, it, it's definitely not easy. And, and I, I always tell my staff too, that I'm myself am not perfect. So sometimes I do feel like I overwork myself and I don't show it, but I also make sure that I always tell them and I try to lead by example. And I also respect their days off. Like if it's their day off, of course, like there may still be messages going out on the group chat or whatever, but I try not to feel, make everything feel urgent and like maybe text my managers on the day that they're off, because I want them also to be able to unplug and feel refreshed when they return to work the next day or two days after that. So it's really, I think, leading by example and prioritizing that self care and taking time off, whether it be a day or two or three a week, or taking that one or two week vacation a year, like it's, I think as Americans and in a lot in many industrial, uh, advanced countries in the world, I think we always value work as being the top priority at the expense of our health and other things in our lives.

So I think it's hard to break that habit, but it starts with, I think every small thing. So like being a leader or being a boss or being an owner of a company, you lead by example, and you hope that your staff will also follow suit and respect, um, other people's days off and, and their boundaries.

Doree: That seems, I mean, that seems like something that's really hard to do in any work environment, but in a restaurant work environment seems especially challenging. Um, so I'm glad that you seem to be kind of figuring out how to make that work for you and your staff. Um, I'd love to just kind of talk about your path to master chef owning these restaurants. I, I know that you were getting an MFA right. When you went on master chef. Um, that's right. So, you know, how, so, how did that happen was cooking you had Al was cooking something that you had just always done as a hobby, or were you, had you thought about becoming a professional chef? How did, how did all this come about?

Christine Ha: Well, that's an interesting story. I actually grew up a very picky eater, not interested in cooking at all. Uh, my parents were Vietnamese immigrants, so I ate a lot of really good home cooked Vietnamese, traditional foods at home growing up. And my mom passed away when I was a teenager and had never taught me how to cook a single dish, never left any recipes behind. So it wasn't until I went off to my undergraduate studies to college, uh, after moving out of the dorms, that for my, after my first year, I had a small apartment and a kitchen and I didn't have the dorm cafeteria to rely upon anymore. So I figured I had to teach myself how to cook in order to eat. So I realized at that point that I did miss the home cook meals that my mom used to cook when she was alive.

So I decided to just buy some Vietnamese cookbooks and read the recipes and just teach myself. And the more I cooked, of course there were a lot of bad dishes that went into the trash at the beginning as with many, uh, trial and error, or just learning a new hobby or trying to start something nudes. It tends to be rough at the beginning, but after many tries, I remember cooking something that was actually edible and delicious. Uh, it was a very simple dish. It's a ginger bras, Vietnamese chicken. It ha I chose it because after botching so many dishes, it was the recipe in the cookbook that had the shortest list of ingredients and the least amount of steps. So I decided to cook that one and that one actually turned out good. And I remember there were no leftovers. There was nothing that went into the trash.

My friends ate it. And at that time I still had vision. And I remember looking around the table in my apartment and seeing everyone's happy faces and everyone was, you know, full and satiated. And it made me happy to be able to have made something that fed them and made them happy and satisfied. And so that was kind of what sparked my initial interest in cooking. And I just kept at it started learning about different cuisines, different ingredients, different cooking techniques just kept cooking through college. And then it was coincidentally around the same time that I began losing my vision. Uh, and at first it was, I thought it was my contact lens. And then eventually one thing led to another. And I was told that it was something neurological and it turned out that my optic nerve was inflamed. And gradually throughout my twenties, as I was teaching myself to cook more and more and learning, uh, to be a better and better cook, I started losing my vision.

So I would have to teach myself again over and over the things that I'd already known how to do with sight, but I had to try it again with less and less vision. And so it was during this time that, you know, I had already graduated college, I was experiencing the vision loss. I was at a corporate job because my undergraduate degree was in business. And, uh, I had to leave my job at the time because I was just having all these health issues. Not only was my vision giving out, but the, the condition that I was diagnosed with called neuromyelitis optica, spectrum disorder, or N M O S D uh, it also caused a lot of spinal inflammation. So I was going through bouts of paralysis as well. So I had to leave my corporate job and then go through a long road of recovery that took many months.

And then, uh, almost a year I believe. And then my vision never returned, uh, to the way it was before. So at that point, I had to figure out what my next step would be or career move or what my purpose in life was. So I did a complete career change and decided to go back to school for, uh, master's in creative writing. And that happened because I've always been an avid reader. I love reading novels and stories. And, and when I was going through all of this vision loss and spinal cord inflammation, what helped me through it, uh, was listening to audio books because I couldn't do anything else. Like there was a point when I, you know, couldn't see anything and I couldn't move because I became paralyzed from the neck down temporarily. So I was just laid up in bed and, you know, obviously my eyes weren't working, so I couldn't read a book.

So all I did was listen to audio books and that helped me escape temporarily from the tough times that I was going through. And so once I got better and I recovered from the spinal cord inflammation, I was able to type on a keyboard again. I started writing essays, diary, entries, short stories, and then that's when I decided to just completely do something different and go to school for something creative. And it wasn't until my last semester that when I was really supposed to be writing my thesis and then, uh, subsequently defending it, uh, I got the opportunity to audition for master chef. And that was at the encouragement of my friends and my family, uh, to audition for this show that they all knew about. Um, I didn't watch much TV cause I was busy in school. And, um, they just, you know, my friends and my family said, you're a good cook.

People need to know how someone who's visually impaired can cook because I don't think a lot of people can believe it. And for me, I thought it was strange because I was like, you know, I'm, I'm just me, myself. I've been able to figure it out. And I didn't really, I couldn't really fathom the idea that I would be such an interesting story or let people would be curious to know how someone with a vision impairment can cook. So I decided to just go audition for the show, thinking that I would come back with some good stories to write about in school, not thinking that I would get that far. Um, but I just went really for the experience and just to see what it's like to film in LA in on a TV show and then hopefully come home and write a short humor essay or a story about it. And then the rest was history because I ended up getting pretty far and then winning that season. And that's what launched the culinary side of my career.

Kate: When you, when you talk about finding your purpose, did you ever think it would be expressed in this way with, with food and sharing and sharing food with community?

Christine Ha: No, it's not something I realize until I look in hindsight and I think oftentimes that's how many of us realize when we look back and connect the dots that we think, oh, of course our lives would have to unfold in this way, but going through all of that at the time, I was just really a confused person, not sure, uh, what my, what value I would bring to society. Um, it was really tough because I knew I was a smart person. Um, I knew that I was a hard worker, but I felt like I was floundering in my twenties dealing with the, this autoimmune condition that I was diagnosed with. Not really sure how that would play out or how I would be able to work again or contribute to society or to my community. So I, I didn't really think until looking back now and then thinking, oh, cooking, which was a hobby reading and writing, which were hobbies can actually be a career and a, a very rewarding one at

Doree: That. Um, I'd love to talk a little bit about how you have adapted your kitchens. Um, can you explain some of the changes that you've made and you know, how they help you and, um, yeah, that'll be, that'd be great.

Christine Ha: Sure. Uh, if you take a look at my kitchen, it actually, I think at first glance it looks like any other kitchen is just very tidy, very organized. That I've always been, I've always been extremely organized. One of my best friends. She, I remember one of the jokes she said was like, it's almost like you were meant to lose your vision because you're so organized. Like if anyone else lost their vision, they would be so lost. And I was like, that is so true because ever since middle school, I've always organized my closet in a very meticulous order where everything was rainbow colored. So all of the black short sleeve shirts were in one place and then followed by like red, orange, yellow, and it, and my kitchen is pretty much the same way. I have my knives hanging on a magnetic rack from like the knives I use the most, the chef's kni to like the utility knife, to the pairing knife.

And then to the bread knife. Um, my spice drawer is all, um, alphabetized. Uh, the spices are all, you know, in ABC order. Um, everything has a place in the kitchen, so it just looks like a very neat kitchen. But if you look closer, there are small adaptations that I've made. So for example, um, there are these things called raised bump dots, or these tactile stickers that my husband had a fixed on certain appliances with the flat screen touch panel. Um, like yeah, all those, um, all those modern appliances that have like those flat screens, those are really difficult for visually impaired people to use. Cuz obviously we can't see and we can't feel the tactile button to count like, okay, where is, you know, where is the, the on off button? Where is the start button, the stop button. So he's marked off some of, uh, the buttons on our appliances with these raised bump dot stickers.

And, uh, also the stove knobs. We have gas stove. And so, uh, he'll or on the oven, like the degrees he'll mark, like the, the bump dot stickers on 350 degrees. And then I would line up the knob, um, to where the bump.is on the oven or the stove. So those sorts of small adaptations, I think, are what makes the kitchen at our house, um, slightly different from maybe the average household kitchen. But other than that, it, it, you know, I don't make that many adaptations in my home kitchen, in the restaurant actually that's, the kitchen is not adapted at all. So usually people always wonder, am I like on the hotline or, you know, on the pass all the time, like in the kitchen at the restaurants. And I mean, to be truthful, like I own these restaurants, I am the executive chef. I've developed the menus.

Uh, when we first open a restaurant, I am in there wearing all sorts of hats, washing the dishes, doing the prep, showing people how to plate things. Um, but one now that my, both of my restaurants have been open for a while, they're running much more smoothly. So I have a great team management team that runs the restaurants. And so now my job is really to develop the menu and keep the marketing going and the branding going. So when I come up with new dishes on the menu, I usually test the dishes at home with my husband where it's quiet. It's not busy. You know, we're not trying to run service. I'm able to kind of be like a mad scientist in the home kitchen. And then once we develop a dish that we're satisfied with at home, I write down the recipe because I've experience as a cookbook writer or a cookbook author to know how to write recipes pretty well, where I can hand it off to my sous chef at the restaurant, and then they'll go through the recipe and then recreate it from my recipe to see how it turns out in the kitchen.

And then, then that's when I come in and we taste it together and we say, okay, this is what needs to change. How will this work on the line? Where can we source these ingredients? Um, and then once everything gets, uh, goes through this process, then it gets on the menu. So I don't have to work in the restaurant kitchens day in and day out fortunately anymore, but we're about to move the blind goat, my first restaurant into its own brick and mortar. So once we open that one, I will be at the restaurant every day. Uh, so I'm just trying to take care of myself and do that self care before that happens in the fall.

Doree: So we're just gonna take a short break and we will be right back. Okay. We're back. I heard you mention knives. And

Kate: We had a question that I actually think would be very helpful selfishly for me, but probably for everyone listening, what are three tools that you recommend everyone have in their kitchen?

Christine Ha: And do you want the knife to be part of this answer? Because I feel like a lot of, a lot of people will always say like a good chef's knife for, you know, so I feel like that may not be helpful.

Kate: You're right. That, that is what everybody does say. Yes. And, and how about this? Do we really need a good chef's knife? Like, is that true chef question mark? Like, do you think that

Christine Ha: <laugh>? I do think so. Okay. Uh, I think it, it, the style of chef's knife can be different. Like it can be, um, a San token knife. It could be a French chef's knife. I personally use like the classic French chef's knife where the blade is curved. Uh, but I think everyone does need a chef's knife. Um, I think you need, uh, this is not something you need need, but when people say like what's a kitchen tool, you can't live without, this is something not a lot of people necessarily have or use. And so when I say it, it actually, uh, I think lights a light bulb in their head, it's called a bench scraper. Do either of, you know, what a bench scraper is or a dough cutter.

Kate: Yes. But take it away because I do feel like this is like an unsung hero of the yeah. Of the kitchen items.

Christine Ha: Yes. So the bench scraper is, um, this tool that, uh, many pastry chefs use is also called a dough cutter. Um, it's kind of like a dull blade with like a handle on it. And it's like a rectangular shape. And, uh, people use it to either scrape all the ingredients off the counter, uh, especially like as a pastry chef, if you're rolling dough on the counter and then, you know, dough gets sticky onto the counter and you wanna clean it up, you use this tool called a bench scraper to scrape up your Ben your work bench, and then gets all the dough off. You can use it to clean all the sugar that you spilled off your, uh, on your counter. Um, people also use the, the blade to cut the dough into different pieces. If they're making like multiple loaves of bread from one big, uh, batch of dough, I use it, especially because I'm visually impaired.

So when I cut things on a cutting board, ingredients will fall off my cutting board. They'll move to parts of the cutting board that I don't know. So for me, the bench scraper helps me gather all of the ingredients together and SCR, um, scoop it up and easily dump it into a bowl or into the pot quickly. So for me, I think I agree it's an unsung hero of the kitchen, the bench scraper. It's not an expensive item. I think you can get it online for like $6 for, you know, inexpensive one. And I use it almost every single time I cook. So that's one, two, uh, I would say a microplane is useful. Um, so that's kind of like a greater, a very fine grader. And I actually used this for the first time when I was on master chef. And I didn't know what it was.

I was like, what is a microplane? That sounds very scientific, but it's basically a very fine grader. And so you can use it to zest lemon, uh, peel. You can use it to great garlic or ginger into very, very small, um, pieces so that you don't get big chunks of, of these ingredients when you cook the dish or when you eat it at the end. So I would say a microplane is also very useful. We also use it to, um, in our house to grate Parmesan cheese so that it becomes like the very fine shavings of par. And it's almost like a cloud. Um, that's why my husband loves his parm cheese. Like he likes it super fluffy and light. Um, so the microplane will help you do that with, uh, a block of cheese. So that's two things, a third thing. Hmm. I'm trying to think, uh, I mean, this sounds also underrated, but tons of kitchen rags, um, I think it's just, you know, instead of using like a bunch of paper towels to clean up or, or wipe down, I mean, I guess when you're plating at home, you don't care so much maybe of how a bowl looks, but with now with social media, like a lot of people, Instagram, what they're cooking, you know, using paper towels to wipe down the sides of their bowls to, to clean it up or whatever.

But I have a huge pile of kitchen rag so that we're not always killing the earth when you're trying to clean up the kitchen, you can reuse it. And then, uh, I just always grab it, whether I wet one to put under my cutting board so that it doesn't slip when I'm, I'm using it and cutting on chopping on top, or I have another one to drive my hands every time I wash my hands or to just grab a hot, uh, panhandle or, and then at the end to wipe down the counters and clean the counters and, and all in the sink and stuff. So I would say, I probably have in total, maybe like 15 or 20 kitchen rags. And so, you know, depending on how much you cook and how many you use, you can go through those quite quickly. So I would say kitchen rags that soak up liquid

Doree: Smart. And also, I never thought about using the microplane for Parmesan cheese. I know that made me hungry.

Christine Ha: Yeah. I love you should definitely try it if you like that fluffy Palm. And it just feels so nice too. Like yeah. And, and it kind of, then the cheese starts just melting in your mouth when you do eat it. If you use that as a garnish on a dish.

Doree: Oh yeah. I love that. Um, you mentioned already the, the first, um, Vietnamese dish that you made that you chose because it seemed so easy, but I'm wondering what is your favorite Vietnamese dish?

Christine Ha: Ooh, that is a very tough one. That's almost like when people ask me to choose my favorite dish and my restaurant menus, I'm like, you're like asking me to pick the favorite child <laugh>

Doree: Oh

Christine Ha: Yeah. Um, okay. Don't hate me for this, but I'm gonna answer with a few. So it really does depend on my mood. So I would say, um, if I'm feeling sick or under the weather, or maybe had a little bit too much alcohol to drink the night before, usually a noodle soup is good the next day. Um, I love F for its simplicity and kind of its, uh, very comfort, simple flavor. I mean it's simple, but yet complex, simple meaning like, um, it just doesn't have like a ton of spice in it and uh, meaning heat, like not chilis, but there is like spice, like star Anis and um, clothes and stuff, but that's, you know, kind of expected the, the, the quintessential national dish of Vietnam, but I love like other noodle soups, Vietnamese noodle soups too. One of my favorites is called Boomba hu, which is from the central region of Vietnam.

So it's a little bit Spier because that region tends to, uh, add more chilies and, and heat to their food. But that's a noodle soup that's made from both beef and pork bones and there's an addition of lemon grass. Uh, and so I just love that dish too. So I would say noodle soups, like either boom, hair fuzz. My favorite, I love Teka, which is a braised pork belly dish that I actually cooked in the finale of master chef as a dedication to my mom because it's a very, very humble inexpensive dish to cook. And it was something she cooked quite often while I was growing up, uh, since it used cheap ingredients and it didn't use a lot of ingredients and it was something that you could cook in batch and then free some of it or, or refrigerate a bunch of it. And it still tastes even better the next day because it's a braids dish.

So that one I love, um, for the comfort that it brings in just the nostalgia that I have from that dish. So that's one of my other favorite Vietnamese, uh, dishes, cuz it's easy to make, not a lot of ingredients, um, and its just simple homey food. And so, um, I wanted to share that with the judges in the finale and, and that recipe also made it into my cookbook recipes for my home kitchen. And so when people asked like what's one of the first recipes that should cook from your cookbook, sometimes I name that one. Um, just because it is simple. Um, yeah, I would probably say like off the top of my head, those are, oh I can't forget Vietnamese egg rolls, um, or fried spring rolls. That's definitely one of my favorite ever since I was a young kid because they're just so easy to eat like finger foods.

My mom would make them for special occasions, like my birthday party or international festival at school. So they're, you know, she would only make them for special occasions cuz they can be tedious. Uh, and I still love them to this day. I can never eat just one. They're served at both of my restaurants. Um, and they're just really simple, like finger food really well balanced. You get the crisp on the outside, like the sweet salt to mommy on the inside from like the shrimp and the pork and all the alls in there. So that is one of my favorite foods. Um, of all time, not just Vietnamese foods.

Kate: I love that you made the pork belly as an homage to your mom and I, I lost my mom in my twenties and I was just wondering if cooking is a way to connect to your mom and the food that she made. Was that part of grieving for you? Did it help move through grief? Was that at all connected?

Christine Ha: Yes. I, I never thought of it as a process of grieving because I didn't teach myself to cook until several years after I'd lost her. Yeah. But I knew, I know that it took me a long time to process. I think the loss of my Mo of my mom or of a parent, because I think when you're a teenager, you don't, or as a child, you don't expect to lose a parent. Um, you don't think of it as something that happens until you're middle aged or older. Uh, and so I didn't really know how to process losing my mom. And then I did start cooking because first, you know, I missed her cooking and then secondly, I started feeling like it was a way for me to connect with her spiritually in the kitchen and it, you know, it sounds kind of hokey or like, I don't know, but it is, it is so true. It's like when I feel like a lot of her dishes have been ones that I've been chasing all of my life, even though I'm a good cook now I feel like some of my dishes still don't taste the way hers do and constantly chasing the memory of the dishes that she cooked for me and my dad. And so for me cooking, when I cook the enemies food or when I cook certain foods that remind me of my childhood, it's very much a way for me to keep the memories of my mom alive.

Kate: I love that so much. This is a, this is a big leap of conversation topics, but I am actually very curious <laugh> because I took a cooking class this weekend and I was admiring our teachers shoes. And I was wondering if you have any comfortable shoe recommendations for those of us who are standing all day in a kitchen or those of us who just stand a lot or just want something comfortable on our feet.

Christine Ha: Yeah. I mean, it's nothing fancy, but I, and, and chefs all have their different, um, I think their answers to this, like I personally, if I had to be in the kitchen all day, I personally just wear CROs, um, the kitchen safe ones where there's not the ones with the holes in it where you can put the GIS or GIS or whatever they're called, but you know, the ones that cover your foot and they're like rubber they're non-slip. And I think if you spill hot oil on it, your feet will be okay. So there's arch support in there. Um, you know, I, I usually that's what I would wear if I had to be on my feet all day is just a simple pair of clogs, nothing fancy.

Kate: I mean, I love a CRO. I was just gonna say, Kate, do you feel validated?

Doree: I didn't have to ask. I should've known it. Would've been the perfect shoe. The crock it's really the best. Um, I have a, I have a master chef question. What is something that people who watch the show might not know about, um, the contestants or the judges' experience that you can talk about?

Christine Ha: Uh, Gordon Ramsey smells really good. I heard that he wears creed Adventis cologne, I think, which I looked up and apparently it's so expensive, so I'm not surprised, but I remember telling him one time and I was like, Gordon, what cologne do you wear? And he's like, it's a secret, but he whispered my ear and it was a name I'd never heard of before. So I couldn't remember, but I think he did reveal it in an interview. Um, so Gordon's, he's always very sharp. Um, he's, he's actually, um, says even Wilder things when the cameras aren't rolling. So people always like, is he really like that when the cameras aren't, you know, like, is he just like that for TV? And I'm sure. Yes, but I think a lot of his natural personality, that's what makes him so good for television is that he has so much energy.

He has so much charisma. He is really funny, but when the cameras aren't rolling, he probably says things that are even crazier than stuff that gets edited on the, onto the TV. So, um, I think Gordon is, is really great. He's always honest. Um, will tell it like it is, you definitely have to have thick skin to learn from him. Um, something else that people may not know. So the seasons are a little bit different now with master chef, but during my season three, which was a long time ago, we actually, one, one hour episode actually took two full days to film. Um, so if, if anyone remembers from my season, each episode was two challenges in one episode. So each challenge was a full day of filming. Uh, I know that nowadays this current season that's airing, uh, it's only one challenge per episode. So I think they're just doing like one challenge per filming day, but it is quite long. Um, so I, I remember we would probably film like anywhere between eight to 16 hours a day. Um, and so it's, and then it got all gets condensed down into like, you know, a 30 to 60 minute segment on an episode. So, um, yeah, that's uh, I guess a little bit of behind the scenes talk <laugh>

Doree: Well, before we wrap Christine, um, do you have a skincare routine that you could share with us?

Christine Ha: Uh, sure. Um, I find myself the older I get. I just feel like I can't be bothering more and part of it, I'm sure all of us feel with this, the pandemic that we've lived through in the last like couple years where now we've all just like wearing yoga pants or sweatpants with elastic, waistbands and sports bras and, and flat shoes or crops or whatnot. So my skincare routine I've also felt like I I've not that I can't be bothered, but I like to keep it simple. So I've been diagnosed with rosacea. Uh, so I sometimes have to use like prescription rosacea medicine, but I find that my skin will get inflamed if I'm very tired or stressed, if I don't get enough sleep, uh, if I drink too much alcohol, uh, if I not eating super clean and I don't necessarily believe, like I have to eat super clean every day, because I think in my industry like to be a chef, I have to try everything.

Um, so it it's really about, I think everything in moderation and, and um, setting boundaries. But for me, I do like to keep it simple. I just use set a fill of skin wash in the morning and at night in the shower, um, I'll use a toner and, and I'm not like loyal to one brand toner. I like to try different things. Um, then I'll use, uh, a serum. Um, so sometimes it might be, uh, retinol. Sometimes it might be vitamin a, sometimes it just kind of depends on what, you know, what season it is or how my skin's feeling. I'll use a little bit of eye cream, but not all the time. And then a moisturizer. Um, that's my night routine in the morning. I just do the face wash with the SETA fill. And then, uh, I just slap on some SPF and moisturizer SPF. Very important.

Kate: Truly. Yes. That is the hero of all skincare routines. I think

Doree: <laugh> um, well, Christine, this has been so delightful to get to talk to you. Um, where can our listeners find you? Where can they buy your cookbook? Where can they eat your food? Tell us all the things.

Christine Ha: Sure. Um, I am very active on my social media and online. So I have a website you can go to Christine ha.com. There you can get in touch with myself or my team. Learn a little bit about me. I'm on, uh, Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. All those handles are the blind cook. Uh, my two restaurants are in Houston, Texas for now. Uh, the first one's called the blind goat. Uh, and people always ask like how you came up with that name and it's um, because I'm known as the blind cook and goat is actually my, the year I was born. So that's my Eastern astrological sign. Oh, cool. That's so cool. But someone else has pointed out like goat also stands for greatest of all time. So I thought that was funny. And I was like, I'll take that. And then my second restaurant is called Sy, which means hello in Vietnamese. And, uh, I named that, um, just because we, we want to say hello to everyone in the community and be a neighborhood restaurant. Uh, and so those are my two restaurants. They're also on social media. Um, yeah, so I'm around, you can find me online.

Kate: Thank you so amazing much, Christine. This was really, really so great to get to talk to you.

Christine Ha: You're very welcome,

Kate: Doree.

Doree: I, I am, I am actually like so eager to, oh, I've never been to Houston first of all. Oh you haven't and

Kate: It's a great town.

Doree: No, I have

Kate: Heard, I, I say this, like I've been to Houston. A

Doree: Great, gosh, I know one of you Houston.

Kate: Well, you know, one of my best friends from college who I've mentioned on this podcast before, because she's my fancy friend, Elena is from Houston and she, oh, it's like a very proud Houstonian. And so I have visited with her before. And so she's shown me the city and it's a great place. I mean, it's the home of Beyonce.

Doree: Um, I know, I know. And yeah, it's just, it's supposed to be a very cool city. I, I don't think I would go there in the summer cuz it seems like it's very hot and humid, but we need a more temperate time of year. Perhaps we could go make a little pilgrimage to her restaurants. Other restaurants

Kate: See some forever 35 listeners campaign for Beto. I mean, we can do it all.

Doree: We can do so many things, um, visit

Kate: Your sister. Most importantly, obviously visit Karen.

Doree: Yeah. I mean she's like a, I think, I think she's like a four hour drive from Houston, but definitely closer. Like Texas is so big. <laugh>

Kate: Yeah. Is, have you ever been Texas

Doree: Is I've not been to Martha. I've never been to west Texas.

Kate: I I've never either, but people sure do love to put Martha on Instagram.

Doree: Okay. So Austin is actually a little less than a three hour drive, so not too bad.

Kate: Okay. Well we'll do this after our pasta making class and before our trip to Italy, we'll do what Texas road trip I would love. I would love to do that. I, I, Texas is a very unique state.

Doree: You know, I'm looking at this map of Texas and I'm realizing I had no idea where Waco was in Texas, but no idea where it is between Austin and Dallas.

Kate: I'll be honest. I don't think I knew that either. And I, I, something I need to just confess right now is that sometimes my like state specific geography is pretty lacking.

Doree: I mean, look, I get, it

Kate: Happened to Corpus

Doree: Christi, Texas, Texas is enormous. <laugh> so

Kate: It's a very, I mean, I haven't even been to many places here in my own state of California. I haven't been to Santa Cruz. I mean, I've got a lot to do here, but yeah, Texas is

Doree: I've only, well, I've only been to Austin. I've never been anywhere else in Texas.

Kate: Okay. See, I have been to Austin, Dallas, Houston, Corpus Christi.

Doree: Oh my gosh. That's it. I mean like

Kate: I've around

Doree: Texas pro

Kate: Wouldn't say that

Doree: You really went off Kate mm-hmm <affirmative> we really did. Did you do adult naps?

Kate: Yeah, I'm doing, I haven't been super consistent about it actually. I think in our interview with Christine, my alarm to go do my adult nap kept going off by accident. You may hear that in this interview. That's

Doree: So funny because

Kate: I set on, I set a reminder for 1:00 PM just to remind myself to go do it. And then of course it goes off at inopportune times, but I have been doing it. Haven't done it every day. I did do it yesterday. You know what I, the other day I was exhausted. I mean, truly, I thought I was gonna need to take an afternoon nap. And I went and did my five minute lay down with my feet up on the couch and an eye pillow on my eyes. And I use insight timer and I felt so much better after that. It, it kind of shook me in a way where I don't think I real, excuse me. I don't think I realized how much something so small could make such a big impact. So I really it's definitely, I'm trying to continue to be consistent with it because it really makes a difference.

And wow. Yeah. Uh, and then this week I am going to put together a reading list of books about ad ADHD. I've already, people have sent in recommendations, which I would love to share. In our future episode, there's been some sharing in the fiber 35 ADHD Facebook group, which has really been a safe space for me. So thank you to everybody there. And I've put a bunch of books on reserve at the library. And I also read a book that I was sent called divergent mind, thriving in a world that wasn't designed for you. And it's about neurotypical. Oh, um, folks. And it was, it was really illuminating. It's really interesting. Wow. And also I think is important for me to read about other forms of neuro neurodiversity other than just ADHD. So that was also really interesting.

Doree: So that is very cool. That's gonna

Kate: Be probably an ongoing life project, but I'm excited to dig in and thank you to everybody who's been so like generous with information. I know there are a lot of you out there.

Doree: I love that.

Kate: How about you? Did you get cute, Jim close?

Doree: Okay. I did. <laugh> I? So athletic. God bless them. They have sports bras for D and double D boobs and they're cute. And I got one of their conscious crop, uh, sports, sports bras. So it's sort, it's a, it's a bra, but it it's a little longer, but it's like fitted and I got matching leggings.

Kate: Okay. I like where this is going very gen Z outfit. Very

Doree: Cute, very gen Z outfit. And I wore it. I wore to the gym and then yesterday I did a Pilates class in my athletic. I have one of their long line bras, which I also really like and also comes in D and double D. Um, and it's just, it like comes down a little longer than like a regular sports bra. And I, I just wore that with a pair of leggings.

Kate: I'm into this for you. I, I like you embracing your ale wear side,

Doree: But then I, I bought, I tried buying a similar sort of like bra kind of crop toppy thing from old Navy. And they don't have special sizes for DS and double DS. And it just, they, it did not, it did not work with my boobs. Like the, my, the, the one that was like my size, like cut in. <laugh> like my everything was just like spilling out. And then the next size up was just way too big. So I'm, I, I guess I'm just gonna have to stick with brands that do make stuff specific for my breasts. And you know, it's funny that old Navy doesn't because I feel like they are very size inclusive, but not breast wise.

Kate: Yeah. I wonder why that is. I find that this happens a lot in terms of boob sportswear. They don't, a lot of places don't seem to wanna go past like medium support or for seas and like that's the real world.

Doree: No, it's like, I mean, with all due respect to people who are a through C cups, like, I don't think you're in the majority here. <laugh>

Kate: No, and we are very uncomfortable when we move our bodies. I mean, I have to tell you, it is. Yes. Especially when we're doing physical activity. I mean, God, yeah. This reminds me, I have a new bra to talk about that I will share for an upcoming episode, but I'm obsessed with this. It's a wireless bra that actually works for my larger buckle up. It's a hot recommendation.

Doree: I'm excited. That's just a tease teaser. I'm excited. So Kate, this week, I'm, I'm kinda in, I have to admit I'm kinda in a reading rut. So

Kate: Come

Doree: On. I'm, I'm just my, my intention this week is to find a book that I, that like I'm really into.

Kate: Is there anything you're in the mood for?

Doree: Well, I don't want anything too dark.

Kate: Mm.

Doree: Um, but I also, yeah, I don't want anything too dark. So like some I've there's like there have been a couple things or anything too sad. I just like, I'm just not in the mood for that. Like anything too tragic. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I should say <affirmative>, I'm not in the mood for tragedy. Like there was one book that like is good and like very, you know, kind of plot driven. So like very readable, but it was just like, it was, it was so tragic, like right off the bat that I was just like, I don't, I, I just don't think I can, I can handle this.

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. I definitely feel that way.

Doree: So yeah. And someone else recommended like another series to me and I tried it and it was just like, I didn't think it was that well written. And so that kind of like took me out of it. And so I don't know, I'm in this sort of like me, it's like, it's like when you're really hungry, but no type of food appeals to you.

Kate: Oh, I get this. You're sitting there in front of the fridge. You're hungry. You're looking at all the things. I mean, it's like being in your closet and like, you're like, I bought all these clothes. I liked them at some point, but I don't wanna wear totally one of them.

Doree: Totally. So I, I just feel like I'm, I'm, I'm like in a rut, so I'll get out of it. I know I will, but

Kate: I've just started as

Doree: Where I'm at right now, so

Kate: Yeah. Oh yeah. Which start? Well, I started a book that comes out in November by Kennedy Ryan before I let go. And so far I'm enjoying it. Ooh. But it's a look

Doree: Into that. I

Kate: Would, I would maybe look into some arcs. We'll talk about this off the air.

Doree: I have, I have been, I've been, I've really been perusing net galley. Mm.

Kate: Yeah.

Doree: Anyway, we'll, we'll, we'll discuss this more off,

Kate: Off the air. Okay. Okay. Okay. Perfect.

Doree: All right. Well, well, Kate, this has been a joy. Let's just, uh, let people know that forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Doree Shafrir and you Kate Spencer, and produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partners. Acast. Bye everyone.

Kate: Bye.