Episode 228: Drag With A Capital D with Lil Miss Hot Mess
Kate stumbles across a travel hack and Doree prepares to travel with a three-year-old. Then, Cameron Esposito joins them behind the mic to talk about why the lowest moment of her life moved her to comedy, how her running partner came from literally stopping someone in the street, and how queer standup has changed in her generation.
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If You’re A Drag Queen And You Know It by Lil Miss Hot Mess
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Transcript
Kate: Hello, and welcome to forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I am Kate AKA Kat Spencer
Doree: Is that how we should introduce ourselves. Now. I'm Doree. AKA Dor Shafrir
Kate: People really do call us Kat and Dor
Doree: I know really do.
Kate: I love it. Never had a nickname. So thank you.
Doree: Aww.
Kate: Finally, finally.
Doree: Thanks everyone. You've made paid dreams come true. Thank
Kate: You. Uh, and also, uh, we cat Andor are not experts, are we?
Doree: No, we are definitely not experts, but we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Kate: We do. We do. We do. And before we dig into all new serum, we talk, you can visit our website at forever35podcast.com for links to everything that we talk about on this here show, you can follow us on Twitter at forever35pod Instagram at forever35podcast, and join the forever35 Facebook group where the password is serums. You can also shop our prods curated at shopmyshelf.usforever35. And you can up for our newsletter. Yes. Which is on hiatus, correct story.
Doree: It is on hiatus for the month of July.
Kate: Yeah. We're taking a break it's forever35podcast.com/newsletter. If you wanna sign up and you can call us
Doree: And, and Kate, Kate loves a text
Kate: And I'm always, I, I do my best to respond. Sometimes I can be a little salty.
Doree: Yeah. You don't know which Kate Spencer, you're gonna get
Kate: Someone sent me a text message or not someone someone's on the podcast. A text message. And I think they, I didn't, I didn't understand the tone. And my response back was a little defensive.
Doree: Oh, I'll be on. Oh, interesting. I
Kate: Was, I was really prickly in the wake of the row announcement and I was feeling very sensitive. So
Doree: I mean, apologies. understandable.
Kate: Yeah. I mean, look, it's also hard to communicate over text, you know, it's not always easy.
Doree: It is. It is. Tone is really hard to kind of like ascertain
Kate: So hard and sometimes we aren't quite getting it, you know? So I do my best we're you can also
Doree: Human.
Kate: We are only human. You can also email us at forever 35 podcast, gmail.com. And you can send us a voice memo there too, if you are so inclined, if you don't wanna do the voicemail situation.
Doree: Yes. We love a voice memo. The, the quality on voice memos is always very good.
Kate: It is the audio
Doree: Quality,
Kate: You know, while we're on the topic, I will say, I appreciate everyone's calls so much, but sometimes the audio quality is such that we cannot play it. So if you, you know, it's okay. Sometimes people call back and rerecord their voicemail message. We welcome it. You know, this is an audio show. So, you know,
Doree: Yeah. And you know, if you are in a, if you are in a spot that gets like bad reception or, you know, something like that, just record a voice memo and then text or email it to us. Um, because the quality sound quality will always be better. So just a little live and learn pro tip from your two fave podcasters,
Kate: Hot recording tip. We come in hot with the expertise on voicemail record. What
Doree: If we were like, please invest in a high quality microphone <laugh> and headphones before you, oh my gosh. Call us. We will only accept <laugh> very high quality audio
Kate: Emotionally recorded.
Doree: Go to a studio. <laugh> sorry. It's not even that funny. I'm just like cracking myself up. All right. Well, Kate, how's it going? Actually, Kate, I have a question for you.
Kate: Yes. I'm here. I'm here.
Doree: What is that pretty necklace that you're wearing
Kate: The long one or the short one?
Doree: Yeah, the long one. Which one? I mean the short one's pretty too, but yeah, what's the long one.
Kate: I'm actually, this is a paper clip, gold chain necklace that I believe I purchased last year prior to this company becoming a podcast sponsor. But they have since become a podcast sponsor or they have been UR.
Doree: Oh, no way.
Kate: Yes. Way. I love this necklace. I wear it all the time. Again was not, you know, bought it with my own money was not a, a sponsored piece of jewelry. Oh,
Doree: That's so cool.
Kate: Yeah. Oh, it's really, I do have,
Doree: Oh, sorry. It's really nice. No, it's really nice. Thank
Kate: You. I really, I, I like it. It's easy to wear. I can also slip things like larger pendants on it, which I do sometimes. Oh,
Doree: That's fun.
Kate: Um, so yeah, they, I, you know what I, really, again, there are now a sponsor of this show, but you know, this is unsolicited endorsement here. Yeah. I think the jewelry, their jewelry is really great. Um, and I find the price point to be accessible, which is not always the case. Have you ever thing had the thing happen where you like, see you're, you're like targeted for an, an item and an ad and you're like, Ooh. And then you go to it and it's like $2,000 for this be. And you're like, what the fuck? Yes. Has that ever happened to you?
Doree: <laugh> yes. Tries
Kate: Me nuts.
Doree: This has happened to me. I will tell you another thing that annoys me about targeted ads is when something is really cute and I click on it and it's sold out,
Kate: Oh, all the time. I'm I'm like annoying.
Doree: Why you just advertise this to me when it's sold out in literally every size <laugh>
Kate: That's not nice. I mean, I'm sure it's all like in some sort of, you know, programmed situation,
Doree: Know some algorithm,
Kate: God damnit. Well, Hey, I did have something I wanted to mention, which is that I, I bought myself a new bathing suit from Knix K N I X,
Doree: And
Kate: I wanted to shout it out for a couple reasons. So I bought the classic one piece from their website. I really like it. I am wearing a large and it, and it fits my very long torso. It has adjustable straps. Now I'm telling you this. And I looked on their website and they're all sold out, but maybe they'll oh,
Doree: Swamp,
Kate: Swamp. The, this, their sizing goes up to X, X XL plus. So, um, the sizing is pretty inclusive to body sizes. And what I wanted to shout out is that they also make leak proof, bathing suits for us, men Streeters, or men drew actors. As I like to say,
Doree: Did you see in the Facebook group, someone posted a, a poll about this?
Kate: Oh, I did
Doree: Posted a, that really made me chuckle <laugh>
Kate: Yeah. They posted a poll about how you pronounce menstrual menstruate. Yes. Which I say menstruate <laugh> like, and so many people when they heard me first say that were like, oh yeah, I thought she was joking. Like everybody thought I was joking.
Doree: I know just
Kate: Why do I pronounce it like that? Why do I do that?
Doree: Like, what is I say it that way too?
Kate: Is it where we're from? Is it geographical?
Doree: I have no idea.
Kate: Same way that you say like aunt or aunt.
Doree: I just thought that was so funny.
Kate: It was very funny. It really, I saw that I think I was tagged in it and I was like, oh my God, I'm never gonna escape my pronunciation of mens. Happy to report for those of us who menstruate and wanna wear a one piece bathing suit. They make bathing suits with, with absorbent liners, which I love. Wow. I've been getting more and more in, into like menstrual clothing. Um, I don't, yeah, I don't use it. I don't use it solely as my like menstrual absorber.
Doree: Okay. But
Kate: Anyway, I just thought that was really great. I'm sure other companies do this too, but this was the first time I had ever seen a, a bathing suit that had this feature. Um, and I'm really loving this, their bathing suit. I've been wearing it, swimming this summer, uh, and it's super comfortable, comfortable. It's flattering. Easy to get on and off. Now, I also tried their evolution bra, which apparently is like the bra they're known for it's a wireless bra that is supposed to comfortably fit us, like big Boobers and also us non big. Boobers it didn't, it didn't work for me, unfortunately.
Doree: Oh, okay. Okay.
Kate: I have, I have this problem where, when I wear these bras without under wire, the bottom band rolls up. And can I tell you why? I think this is,
Doree: I would love to know.
Kate: I think I have <laugh>. This is gonna sound really silly. I think I have big ribs.
Doree: Oh, interesting. Like you have a large rib cage. Well, you know, after you have children, your rib cage often expands.
Kate: So I've always had a rib cage that protrudes so much so that my college boyfriend called my ribs, my second boobs.
Doree: Okay. That's that's weird.
Kate: Well, you know, he, he was maybe weird. I don't know. I mean, I could, I, I almost wanna show you, is this weird? Is this getting too personal? If I show you my ribs,
Doree: Um,
Kate: They basically stick out. They stick
Doree: Out. Okay.
Kate: Okay. So I think my ribs, they protrude. Yeah. I've got, I'm just a big rib gal. And I think they cause these under these lack of underwear, bras to, for the bands to roll up. And so they make them not comfortable. I'm wearing one right now by skims and the band rolls up. So that happened to me with Nick's evolution bra. But I have other friends who like swear by it as their comfort bra choice.
Doree: Oh, that is fascinating.
Kate: Yeah. So that's my hot update in terms of like really into this bathing suit. And you know what I like about this bathing suit?
Doree: What
Kate: Kate, I feel comfortable in it. And I also dare I say, feel a little bit sexy.
Doree: Oh, hello.
Kate: <laugh>
Doree: Hello.
Kate: You know, I just, I feel like I look good and I don't always feel I'm sure I do, but I don't always feel, and it's not like it's like sometimes bathing suits feel weird on your body. That is weird. Or like your but cheeks are feeling weird. And so you don't quite feel comfortable moving in your physical form. I'm not saying like, people finding my appearance hot. I mean, like how it fits on me and how I feel the comfort level then allows me to kind of, I Don know, just ease into my skin a little bit, which makes me wanna pose this question to you. If you don't wanna answer this, you don't have to, at all week, don't have to
Doree: Talk about this. I'm listening. Just FY. What is your question?
Kate: When do you feel sexy?
Doree: Interesting, sexy, sexy.
Kate: Cause I don't, I don't, I'm not often, I don't often tap into that for myself. Like sexy is a interesting feeling, right?
Doree: Yeah. It's like, because it's not exactly the same as like, do you feel attractive? It's kinda different.
Kate: Well, and it, I think it involves you feeling yourself rather than
Doree: Yes. I will tell you right now. I do not feel sexy,
Kate: Like right in this moment,
Doree: In this exact moment, UNS showered wearing a sports bra and an old Fleetwood Mac t-shirt and <laugh> a strawberry baseball cap and bike shorts and soft and pool slides. I don't,
Kate: Honestly, this sounds, this sounds like a very cool generation, Z outfit, bikes, socks, and pool. That's gen Z's like mode of operation
Doree: Is also Z's mode of operation to like,
Kate: You feel like
Doree: I need to take a shower. I like really need to take a shower. I can like smell myself. I'm like, this is not sexy, but you know, what's I smell my butt.
Kate: First of all, I don't even know how to respond to that. Don't I don't know. Oh, no.
Doree: <laugh>,
Kate: I'm not normally at a loss for words, but just the idea of smelling your own butt is, has stumped me. So thank you.
Doree: Okay, go on please.
Kate: I was just gonna note that I thought it was interesting that you equated, like what you were wearing to the feeling of sexiness. Can we feel sexy in, in clothes that don't inherently feel sexy? Like I'm currently wearing an old Madewell tank top and then target high wasted shorts. But I don't have the tank top tucked in. I have it like hanging over. So I just look kind of like, it doesn't look cool.
Doree: Mm.
Kate: You know, I don't think I feel sexy right now either. Hmm. But I also don't think it's clothes that make us, make us always feel sexy.
Doree: Maybe it's our power.
Kate: I'm gonna just pose this question to the listenership of this podcast, which is when do
Doree: You
Kate: Feel sexy?
Doree: And I like this question
Kate: Is leaning into embracing sexiness, whatever that means for you. Has that been a journey of like self care or self healing? There can be a lot of trauma that is linked into this concept of sexiness, right? Like
Doree: That's and
Kate: Maybe people
Doree: Interesting.
Kate: Maybe some people never feel this way. I it's not something I'm feeling every day.
Doree: No, I certainly am not feeling it every day. I would say those days are fewer and farther between
Kate: Well, and you know, like, I think in an upcoming episode with Jessica Dino, we talk kind of about the way in which PE humans are perceived and the way aging is received and discussed and all these things and how culturally older people, specifically women are not really viewed as being sexy or sexual, you know? Yeah. And like how I think we can, we ourselves get pulled into that narrative. I don't know. It's really it's, it's just, I'm just curious.
Doree: It's a really
Kate: Bathing. It's a really interesting
Doree: Question.
Kate: Yeah. How did we get here? I don't know, but thank you. Well, our guest today is sexy. <laugh>
Doree: Our guest today is sexy
Kate: And funny and brilliant and has some charming,
Kate: Charming, great tips. She's just delightful. Uh, today we are talking to Lil miss hot mess. She is a renowned storyteller and board member of drag queen story hour. She's also the author of the hips on the drag queen go swish, swish, swish, and has written for wired salon. And the guardian she's performed at venues from Stanford to the San Francisco museum of art to Saturday night live. And she has a new children's book that just came out called if you are a drag queen and you know it, and it's really, really delightful. It's really cute.
Doree: I wanna like get it for my kids' school.
Kate: You should. It's a really, really cute book. So we had a really good time talking to and excited our interview. The,
Doree: We are so excited to have you on Forever35 Lil Miss Hot Mess. Welcome to the show.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to be here.
Doree: Yeah. Um, so we like to start off our conversations with guests by asking them about a self-care practice that they have. Um, so we are wondering what is that for you?
Lil Miss Hot me...: Honestly, for me, my biggest self-care practice is that I am a bath queen. I love a good warm bath. When it's winter, I take one truly almost every night and I have my whole Epsom and essential oil routine. And I bring my TV. I've got a dedicated stool for the computer so I can watch all my shows sometimes I read. But yeah, mainly it's really just a, a boob tube tune out kind of thing.
Doree: TV Stool is so smart.
Lil Miss Hot me...: I know. I know. Yeah. It's the upgrade. It's the upgrade I needed.
Kate: Are you a bath every night kind of person? I know when it's like cold, but like, could you even go, like when it's like right now in LA it's like 99 degrees, can you, can you handle a bath in the summer?
Lil Miss Hot me...: I'm not such a summer bath person all the way every now and then when like the chill of the AC hits just right. It is sort of nice to just indulge in that warm bath <laugh> but yeah, usually, usually that's, if it's like, if I've been inside all day and can't, you know, or haven't, haven't had the, any effects of the heat, the outside,
Kate: The chill of the AC is like the best feeling in the world where you're you trick your body. It like, it tricks your body into thinking it's cold, but really you're just like living alive, but it feels so. Right,
Lil Miss Hot me...: Right. You're just like, brrrr it's freezing, but
Kate: <laugh> get tin he tub.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yeah.
Doree: Um, I was just gonna ask if you have, if you wanna shout out any specific bath upgrades, um, that you would recommend,
Lil Miss Hot me...: Honestly, I, I really go old school. I do Epsoms salts. I do. Um, yeah, my own proprietary, essential oil blend of like some lavender, some vettivert some, uh, rose, uh, probably a couple other things that I'm forgetting. I haven't mixed it in a while for a little while. I tried making my own bath bombs too, which was kind of a fun experiment. Oh. Um, but then they were stain the tub. So I <laugh>, I moved away from that option.
Kate: Yeah.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yeah. And I do have one of those bath trays, although I don't really use it that often, but I like to think that I have like a candle and a glass of white wine or something while I'm in
Doree: There. That's, it's very Oprah.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. All about that life,
Kate: But that I have that bath trade too. And like, it still looks precarious. Like I'm not, I feel like I, even though I'm gonna put a bottle of the glass of wine on it and immediately shatter it in the tub with me.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think really the upgrade I want is like a better bathtub, right? Like I want like the full on cloth tub, which sadly I do not have in my life right now.
Kate: Well, look, it's always good to set us a goal. <laugh>
Lil Miss Hot me...: It's
Kate: True in the world. So maybe, maybe that can be it. Um, before we get into your, um, history as a drag queen, I did wanna ask, can you tell us a little bit about how you get started blending your own oil? Cause it sounds delicious. The combination you mentioned, is it just something you did like on a whim?
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yeah. It's just something I experimented with. I mean, I have a lot of, kind of like witchy and woo friends, you know, I sort of, I didn't actually grow up, but I spiritually grew up in the San Francisco bay area. So everyone has their own little altars and collections of oils and things like that. Um, and yeah, I think it was when I went to this one spa that had just a really nice scent and I was like, what is that? And you could buy it, but then I just read the ingredients and figured, oh, I could make it. So every ever since then I've been experimenting.
Doree: Do you have any other like witchy things that you do?
Lil Miss Hot me...: Um, you know, I have like my incense, I, I smudge every now and then mm-hmm, um, I don't really have an altar, but you know, every now and then I'll pull out card and just kinda leave it out to set or something like that. I do, I try to get astrology reading at least once a year to just in, in the, and see where things are. Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Kate: We would love to just kind of get some background on how you got started in drag, because you have been a founding member of drag queen story hour, and I'd love to kinda hear what your journey has been like as a drag queen.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yeah. I mean, I feel like I've always been a drag queen at heart since well, before I had any knowledge of that language or that terminology. I was definitely that little gay kid who, you know, my FY just ran rampant. I loved to perform, I loved to put on shows for anyone who would watch in the backyard. Like I would, you know, get the neighborhood kids involved. I would put a towel on my head and call it a wig or wear my mom's high heels. Um, and I did do, you know, theater and high school and middle school and things like that. Um, but it wasn't until I moved to San Francisco just after college that I really was like now is the time to do drag. And part of that was that I had been going out, I had been seeing it. Um, it was really kind of like a heyday for drag in San Francisco at the time where it wasn't just glamorous.
Lil Miss Hot me...: It wasn't just pretty or fun, but it was political. It was kind of punk. It was already, you know, we always had this joke that like, if there wasn't some form of bodily fluid on stage, by the end of the show, it wasn't really drag, you know? And, and my drag was never quite that like literally messy every now and then, but, um, but it was fun to kind of explore that and, uh, and yeah, kind of grow up in that scene. Um, and yeah, and then it, it kind of took off and I've been doing it for, I mean, almost 15 years at this point it was wild.
Doree: Wow. So you just, you said you joked that if there wasn't a Bodi bodily fluid on stage, then it wasn't drag mm-hmm <affirmative>. Um, but could we just kind unpack a little bit, like, what is drag? Is it a kind of like, you know, it, when you see it, or do you feel like there is an actual, like academic definition of drag as a, as a culture, as a concept?
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I think, I think it's kind of both, I think on the one hand drag does have a kind of specific definition it, or originates in queer and trans communities. It's about playing with gender and, you know, other kinds of social expectations. On the other hand, I think drag can be kind of anything, you know, there's colloquially and like queer vernacular drag can be any kind of thing that you put on that, you know, is kind of siloized and changes the way that you're perceived. So, you know, people will talk about like their church drag or they're nine to five drag or their teacher drag or whatever that is. Um, so I do kind of subscribe to that, like RuPaul idea that we're all born naked and the rest is drag cause we're always putting it on. Um, but I think, I think at the heart of like drag performance, as we think about it, it really is. It's about playing with gender, but it's also about these aesthetics of over the toughness, exaggeration, appropriating elements from mainstream culture and giving them a little bit of a twist. Um, it's those sorts of things that really kind of make the difference between just dressing up or Coplay and, and drag with a capital D
Doree: How has your specific drag identity kind of evolved over the years?
Lil Miss Hot me...: You know, I've always thought of my drag persona as different elements of myself, some Queens, some performers really like to build up a character and like create a backstory and a biography and all these sorts of things. But for me, it, it really is about kind of, yeah. Taking what's already there and amplifying it in different ways. Um, I think when I was a little bit younger, I leaned in a little bit more to the kind of like awkward teenage girl inside of me. Like I did a lot of like bat Mitzva drag with kind of my, my stick for a little while, um, you know, braces and like big hair and gaudy like sleeves, sleeves. Yeah. Like the nanny kind of clothes. Yeah. Yep. Yep. <laugh> um, and maybe now, like, I mean, again, it's been almost 15 years and I feel like I'm more on the likey or grandma side of that a little bit, especially doing story hours. Like I've leaned into that librarian, uh, kind of aesthetic a little bit more, but
Doree: My gosh, you're like the drag coastal grandmother.
Lil Miss Hot me...: <laugh> thank you. I'm trying, I'm trying
Doree: Love that.
Kate: Do you drag both as a performer and also participant or as self care? Because I imagine that feeling of coming into the community, I, I imagine there is an element for many people where drag is a key part of self care at various times in their lives.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Absolutely. I mean, I think like any creative process, it, it is rooted in care and, and just something about doing it and having the practice of it and like going through the rituals of it. Yeah. Certainly feels like care. Um, you know, I think about like the, the concept of flow, you know, that, that idea that you kind of get lost in something. And, and that's something that I experience when I'm preparing for numbers, especially I'm, I'm a little bit of a control queen. Like I, I, I like to improvise a little bit, but I also like to plan out a number I like to do choreography. I like to make props. And so there's a lot of like crafting and, and prep work that goes into the drag. So yeah, something about that, you know, like literally just sewing sequence onto something or painting a prop kind of gets me into that state of flow. Um, and even like, just this past week, it's, it's been an incredibly stressful week. I don't know if you all have heard, but, um, doing an
Kate: Event we're with you.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yeah. Um, doing an event just this past weekend, like just having that two hour set aside where I knew that all I had to do was like paint my face and get ready was actually like incredibly therapeutic and, and full of self care.
Kate: I love what you wrote too about how drag is such an example of imagination and creativity and play. Like, and we'll talk a little bit more about this as we talk about drag queen story hour in your books, but there is such something so a marvelous in, in that, especially as an adult to get to see or get to do, um, when, so much of that is, is stifled as we get older, I mean, it's just such an amazing embodiment of like, what can you come up with? What can you conceive and how could you pull it off?
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yeah, totally. I mean, you're right. Like as adults, we don't get to play, we're told that we have to like get to work and, and put all that stuff aside. And it actually, it was very healing for me to kind of realize that this is play and that this is something that you can do simply for its own sake. I mean, for some people, it is a profession I've sort of, you know, for me, it's, it's a career, but it's always kind of been the add on to other things that I'm doing. And so in some ways it's been able to be more of an art form for me, but yeah, even I think if you're, if you're working that drag hustle, if you're, you know, you're hosting things every night of the week, there still is that element of, yeah, what am I gonna wear? How am I gonna like, hold the audience's attention? What is my number gonna be? You know, maybe I've done this number 20 times before, but there's like that one thing that clicks into place because it's a different audience or because someone offers you something else in that space. Um, and yeah, it does, it does kind of keep you on your toes in this really nice, fun, playful way.
Doree: So we're just gonna take a short break and we will be right back we're back.
Kate: Well, you have a PhD in media studies, which is number one, like a feat that is quite amazing in your, uh, academic point of view. How do you think that drag has influenced mainstream culture?
Lil Miss Hot me...: You know, I used to always think that drag was like the ultimate resistor to mainstream culture, that it would always exist in the underground and could never sort of be absorbed into mainstream culture. And, you know, I guess I'm happy to admit that I was wrong. Um, you know, Rupa and her whole empire has certainly proved that the people in all walks of life are ready and eager for drag in their lives. Um, but I also think that it does come with some compromises. You know, I think that the drag that I grew up with, um, you know, again, that kind of like arty bodily fluids, uh, you know, balls to the wall kind of form of drag, um, you know, still isn't always ready for prime time or prime time. Isn't always ready for it. And so, um, you know, I think we do get like a slightly more sanitized version on TV. I think we get certain, certain kind of like conventions where, you know, either you're the pretty one, or you're the funny one, or you're the weird one, but it's hard to sort of cross those boundaries. Um, and you know, mean in the shows that I've always been part of, like you get all of that more in given night and that's part,
Doree: I talk also more about drag queen story hour. I'm wondering from your perspective, what, what is that kids get out drag queen story hour?
Lil Miss Hot me...: I think kids get so much out of it. And I think it's often not what people expect. I think people often kind of think that it's, you know, kind of L G B T 1 0 1 or gender 1 0 1 that they're kind of learning the basics of queer culture or, you know, different types of identities. And I think that that's part of it, but again, I think that's kind of only scratching the surface. And for me, the more exciting aspects of what kids learn from drag queen story hour are things that, that kind of get transmitted through the lines of the text or through the performance. So it's, it's things like, you know, learning to use humor, to deal with tough topics or to cheer yourself up when, you know, the world is a hot mess around you. Um, it's things like, uh, sometimes it's just like the sensory, um, kind of overstimulation of drag that over the topness for kids, you know, the sequence, the bright colors, the big hair, there's something to kind of learn.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Um, just in that kind, experiencing of the unusual of, of, you know, tapping into curiosity and in the environment around, I think there's something about kind of learning how to question authority or question convention and the status quo, the way things have always been done, you know, to say, you know, boys don't have to act a certain way. Girls don't have to act a certain way. You know, there's all different ways that we can be in the world. And, and I think that drag can sort of help help us imagine new possibilities for how we structure society. And, you know, again, especially in this week, things like, you know, violence and bodily autonomy have been in my mind. And I think that, you know, drag isn't gonna solve all the problems, but I think it gives us that imaginative space to think about what is the world that we really wanna live in and, you know, how can we transform things around us sometimes by starting with, you know, transforming our appearance or transforming ourselves?
Doree: Yeah. I, I was mentioning this before we started recording, but I have a three year old, a three year old son. And, and, you know, I, I think about these things a lot. Um, and mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's, this is like encouraging to hear <laugh>, um, in a way, you know, just, I think he, I haven't taken him to a drag queen story or partly COVID and just partly hasn't happened. Um, but I think he would really enjoy it. So I'm gonna make an effort to, to do that. Um, and I'm also going to read your book to him. So let's talk about yeah.
Kate: Is so good. Oh my God love,
Doree: Which is so wonderful. It's called if you're a drag queen and you know, it, it came out in may, um, for the benefit of our listeners who may not have seen it, can you kind of give them a rundown of what it's about?
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yeah. So if you're a drag queen and you know, it it's actually my second book, the first one is called the hips on the drag queen go swish, swish, switch <laugh>
Kate: And great title.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Both of them are, uh, are parody on classic kids songs that kind of introduce kids to some of the things that drag Queens like to do. And again, it's not really about gender, it's not really about, you know, L G B T history or anything like that. It's really about kind of embodying these things, whether it's swishing your hips or shimming your shoulders, or snapping your fingers or shouting yes. Clean. Um, and, and I wrote it that way because I wanted kids to, to try it out, to, to kind of take that risk in a safe space, which I think is also what drag is all about is kinda having the courage to step outside of your comfort zone a little bit. But again, with something like story hour, we're trying to do that in a way that is comfortable and available to everyone. Um, and yeah, and it, you know, it features a cast of, uh, just wonderfully diverse and inventive drag performers that kind of reflect the drag scenes that I've come up in, but also extend them into new fantastical ways as well.
Kate: It's really fun. I've taken my kids once in LA. Yeah. It's really cool. And, and, you know, I mean, and you wrote an amazing op-ed about this because, I mean, in addition to the, you know, anti LGBTQ anti-trans legislation, that's getting passed yeah. And states run America and the scapegoating and, um, the homophobia, I mean, the list goes on. And then of course we had these, you know, terrorists show up at a drag queen story hour and terrorize, both performer kids and parents mm-hmm. Um, and I love the title of the oped you wrote for NBC news, which is drag Queens. Won't be by haters. The story hour goes on. Yes. And you make so many amazing, amazing points in this piece and we'll link to it so everybody can read it. Um, what as, as a performer, as not just as a performer, a drag performer, but a storyteller with these children and a author of children's books.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Kate: What, what do you, what do you even say? Um, I like, I don't even know what the question is. Like, can you tell us why that's bad? No, we all know why it's bad. Um, I guess how, how do you find the fortitude to face what is happening right now, and also to tell how, how can we join as community members to tell them to F off
Lil Miss Hot me...: Such a good question? I mean, I, I do it because it brings me joy and it brings so many other kids and parents and families joy. Um, and you know, this, even though I had this other book come out, it came out in the middle of COVID. And so this has really been the first time that I've been able to get back out into the libraries, into the bookstores, into the community spaces, to do events with kids. And so for me, like seeing the kids who bring their very well worn copies of the book or who come dressed up or who, you know, know all the names of the characters like that just warms my heart beyond anything I could have possibly imagined. Um, and I, you know, I know that we're doing the good work. Like, I, I hate to say that, um, that this backlash kind of signals that we're doing something right.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Because, you know, I think we were doing something right. Even without the backlash. Um, but, but the fact that we're ruffling feathers, I do think is ultimately a good thing. You know, I wish that they were not feathers that, you know, might have, I dunno, AK 40 sevens or whatever, or, or, you know, are part of these vigilant white nationalists sort of groups. Um, but you know, the, the fact that they, that they feel like things are changing is ultimately for the good, right. Yeah. And, and that's why we're here, you know, a lot of times the right wing likes to say that we're indoctrinating children or we're brainwashing them, you know, or we're voicing our ideology on them. But the reality is that we're really undoing a lot of the ideology that, that the right, and that just mainstream culture in general is voicing on people.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yeah. Like these ideas about what boys and girls have to be, or what masculinity and femininity are, are, you know, so ingrained in society and it's well past the time to, to be undoing them. Um, and, and for kids, a lot of that really does come naturally. You know, I, I love the ways that kids often incessantly just ask why, and, you know, adults give them an answer and they're not satisfied because often the answer isn't satisfying or it doesn't add up. And so they keep asking why. And I think that, that, that's something that we're also kinda tapping into with this program is yeah. Is, is that curiosity that's already there? Um, so yeah, so I mean, that's honestly, that's why I do it. And I always honestly feel sad for the haters cuz I feel like we're out here throwing this fabulous party that in theory anyone's invited to like, maybe don't bring your gun or maybe don't, you know, check your hatred at the door, but otherwise like we're here for you and if you don't wanna join us, that's actually kind of sad because our world is really sparkly and glitery and fabulous.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Um, and yeah, I mean, I think for, for folks who wanna support us, I, I just encourage folks to turn out to events, to follow us on our social media, to donate when they can, you know, I always to quote Dolly Parton, it costs a lot of money to look this cheap. And you know, we do a lot on a shoestring budget. Um, but you know, it does, it, it does require resources to, you know, pay our performers for their time and artistry to make sure that we have safety plans in place for events to, you know, develop curricula and, and really make this an educational program and not just, you know, entertainment.
Doree: Well, I, I don't, I, I actually don't think this is like on a more superficial note because I think that this is like very important to the whole project of drag, but can we talk about your makeup?
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yes, absolutely not superficial
Doree: At all. Um, and I, and hair, I guess. Um, but, but may, I'd love to start with makeup. Can you kind walk us through your process of getting ready to become lo miss hot mess and what makeup you use and what techniques you use and how this has kind of evolved. Tell, please tell us everything.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yeah. I mean, I'm very, very self taught. Um, I technically have a drag mother, although, uh, she always liked to joke that she kind of left me in the dumpster yeah. Behind the dumpster after prom <laugh>. Um, and so I never really learned all the tools of the trade or the ticks tricks of the trade. Um, you know, I, when I first started off, like all of my makeup came from Walgreens and I remember someone finally like taking the, you know, basic eyeshadow applicator out of my hand and handing me a brush and being like, girl, you really need to step it up. Mm-hmm um, so it's taken, you know, a decade to get there, but, um, yeah, I mean, I use a combination still of some Walgreens makeup. I live for a wet and wild lipstick. That's like truly so good pigment that I've always ever wanted.
Lil Miss Hot me...: <laugh> um, and you know, some professional stage makeup, some pylon, um, you know, <inaudible> some other fancy brands out there. Um, and for me, I I'll say it's really a process every time I feel like I'm living on the edge. I feel like it's a little bit of trial and error. It's a little bit of like a hope and a prayer holding it all together. You know, sometimes, you know, you make the one eyebrow and then you try to duplicate it on the other side and then you have to kind of do the dance of touching up each side until they finally sort of look like, um, sisters, if not twins. Uh, but for me, it's, you know, I, I think when I was younger, I, I did try to be a little bit more, pretty, a little bit more passable and over time I've really, uh, I've enjoyed the kind of exaggeration of it all.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Um, I sort of feel like in both makeup and fashion, like if you're not gonna sparkle, why bother? So I do ton of glitter on my eyes and my lips and I love to wear sequins and yeah, I mean, again, the bigger the hair, the closer to Dolly. So I always definitely do as big hair as possible. Um, and it really takes a village. I mean, you know, I, I certainly am not a hair stylist, so I have, uh, a friend, uh, with a business who, you know, styles wigs for Queens. And, uh, yeah, it's that, there's something kind fun in that collaboration as well of sort of seeing, you know, what they're gonna come based on what you've and what's imagination.
Kate: I, next question is, so I guess my next question is how do you take it all off? Are there certain products that you stand by in terms of makeup removal? And then we love to ask our guests about their skincare routine and we are seeing you son's makeup and your skin looks flawless. So I feel like, and you, we're a heavy makeup. We're a heavy face.
Lil Miss Hot me...: I do. I mean, just a little bit, but, uh, <laugh> just an eat bean too little bit of blush. Um, you know, I'm gonna admit on this podcast that I do not have a skincare routine. I only like literally within the last year started putting moisturizer on after I do drag. Like, that's basically it, I, you know, we talked a little bit about my kind of hippie witchy origins earlier. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I used to be just a Dr. Bronner's girl on the face, you know, and
Kate: I mean, for Dr. Broner is a classic for a reason.
Lil Miss Hot me...: It is a classic for a reason. Although I was like, maybe there's a little bit of, you know, other things I could do. So, I mean, honestly I use like a pharmacy makeup wipe and perfect, you know, now I use like an over, you know, just a regular cleanser. Um, and I do a little moisturizing after, um, I recently got some, uh, fat in the moon products. And so I've been enjoying, we love their stuff, one of their cleansers, I forget what it's called, but it, it smells like celery, which I really like, it's like this weird, like, you don't really expect it, but I'm like, okay, maybe something, some celery juice or something in here giving me some nutrients. Um, yeah. But yeah, otherwise I think honestly, I was blessed with, with decent skin that can somehow hold up against all of this crap that I put on it all the time.
Kate: Uh, yeah. And I mean, uh, what an endorsement of the generic makeup wipe, because that's a lot to get like, that's they do the work. I know they're not good for the environment, but they do the work,
Lil Miss Hot me...: You know, they do the work. I mean, the one good thing about them is that they get the glitter off and I some means use tape to get the glitter off. So it's not going down the drain, which is ultimately a good thing. And I do have some reservations about the glitter. I try to buy, you know, biodegradable glitter when I can, but I kinda have a large back stock of stuff that I'm still trying to get through from years and years
Kate: Of doing all this. I, I hadn't even thought about the fact that glitter is not biodegradable. I hadn't even,
Lil Miss Hot me...: It's like literally plastic microplastics. I know it's, that's the one bad thing about drag, maybe a few bad things about drag, but yeah,
Doree: This is completely, this is like totally unrelated. But, um, I've been seeing on TikTok, these tattoo artists who are doing these glitter tattoos, and now I'm kinda like, wait, but that, like, that's probably
Kate: Really bad for you. <laugh>
Lil Miss Hot me...: I know. I mean, there, there is such a thing as bio glitter, I haven't done like the full range of research to really understand how it's different, but I wanna believe that it's, you know, pure and good for all life on care. <laugh> so,
Kate: So I have a very specific question, which I was looking at your Instagram and I noticed that you have been rocking a platform CRO
Lil Miss Hot me...: Yes. Thank you for those two. Okay. So
Kate: I love CROs. I would love all the details. Are they comfortable? Ha. Cause at first I looked and I was like, is she wearing a dance go like nurses clog? And then I was like, oh no, she's in a crock platform. Like this hot topic have to discuss it. So anyway, please, are they C croc brand? Are they comfortable? Do you like the style? Should we all get them?
Lil Miss Hot me...: Um, I was gonna say yes, yes, no. Yes. But I can't remember the exact order, but, uh, I will say so they're, they're knockoffs. They're, they're knockoffs of the official CROs by Balenciaga that came out maybe like three or four years ago. And for a long time, CROX, wasn't making anything like them and now CROX makes a, a platform or what they call a platform. But to me, it's not really a platform it's like, you know, maybe an inch off the ground. Um, so I still go with the knockoffs and I, these ones that you've been seeing, I I've just been wearing the same pairs. I've been doing a lot of traveling, uh, but I did kind of glitter them myself cause I wanted to get them a little extra pizzaz, but I have a few more pairs at home that are due to get that treatment.
Lil Miss Hot me...: Uh, once the store is over. And honestly, part of it is, um, is post pandemic because doing all these drag shows and readings during the pandemic where like, it was literally just from the waist up or the bus stop, it was so, so nice to not have to wear the full ensemble. I mean, usually I still wore like all my padding and all the stuff that nobody could see, but going barefoot or wearing a pair of slippers that no one could see was truly everything. And especially for drag queen story hours where like there is an above average chance that you could trip and actually injure somebody <laugh>. Yeah. I feel like the, the safety instability of the platform CRO is really just a win-win for everyone. And, and they are incredibly comfortable. I mean, I don't run or anything like that, but I feel like if I did, I could, I dunno, run a marathon and I
Kate: They're like sensible, but like the most playful shoe ever. I don't know. I love
Lil Miss Hot me...: Them. Yes. And kids love them too. Cuz so many kids have CROs or, or kind of rubber shoes like them. So there's, there's definitely like a relatable content moment there as well. <laugh>
Kate: Doree, you know what I'm gonna be doing when we hang up, I'm gonna be searching for these knockoff. I sure do.
Lil Miss Hot me...: They're not hard to find and then just get yourself some E 6,000 or whatever it's called and just go to town with the glitter. It, it, it actually works surprisingly well. Yeah.
Kate: Amazing. Sounds, sounds like a fun. I need some like something to focus my energy on that is joyful. So that sounds wonderful.
Lil Miss Hot me...: And that, I mean, that's the self care of doing drag right there. Yeah. It's like spending an hour, just, you know, throwing glitter at things. <laugh> watching it stick.
Kate: Well, it's been so wonderful to get to talk to you. Um, if listeners want to find your books or also see you out live, where can they get all that information?
Lil Miss Hot me...: So my books should be available wherever books are sold. So I always encourage people to ask at your local bookstore and especially to ask at your local library so that everyone can encounter these wonderful books. And unfortunately we are seeing more and more bands and challenges of books. So showing, showing yeah, our librarians that there's a desire and a demand for these is extra important. And then you can find me at Lil miss hot mess. L I L miss hot mess on social media or Lil miss hot mess.com. Uh, I have a few more events coming up this summer, hopefully some more virtual events coming up soon as well. Um, and also follow drag queen story hour. Cause we do have over 50 chapters around the country and around the world. And if we don't have one in a community near you, we always encourage people to get in touch and uh, yeah, to start one if they're so inclined's
Kate: Amazing
Lil Miss Hot me...: Goal twirling and twirling. Yeah.
Kate: Well thank you so much for coming on the show. It was so great to talk to you Doree. I'm really glad that Lil miss hot mess received me singing little red Corvette. Oh. And the way in which her name perfectly fits into that song.
Doree: Um, I think she was, she was very pleased by that actually.
Kate: I mean, it's like perfect. Like I still haven't been able to stop thinking about it. I mean, and also
Doree: Little miss hot mess. <laugh>
Kate: Speaking of sexy Doree. I mean yes. Prince.
Doree: Yes. I mean prince epitome
Kate: Like that prince, literally prince music videos was how I even like began to understand my sexuality when I was younger. You know, like I think he was the first person I ever saw where I was like, I'm attracted to this the way this person moves. What is happening?
Doree: I published when I worked at Buzzfeed, I published an essay by Nicole Perkins, former forever 35 guest about how she basically had like her sexual awakening with prince. I think that essays in her book actually,
Kate: I think you're right. I mean, prince is just a Marvel.
Doree: Yeah.
Kate: Wow. It all comes back. It all, it all comes back. Okay. Well it
Doree: Really does
Kate: Doree. Your previous intention was to approach our impending summer break and your impending travel and vacation with a heart and a mind of ease. How is that going?
Doree: Well, you know, as, as discussed, we are recording these way ahead of time. So I have actually, although today is actually the day that I return from my trip as we record this, I have not left yet. Um, but I have started making a packing list, which is kind of calming me and I also, I also like hedged a bet that my three year old son who is a very independent, like wants to do everything himself he's in that kind of phase. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I, I had a, I had an inkling that he might be very into the idea of having his own little rolling backpack to tote through the airport.
Kate: Adorable.
Doree: And we, uh, we picked one out together. His first choice was not going to be guaranteed to arrive until after we had left. But his second choice was a bunny.
Kate: Oh,
Doree: It came yesterday and it's like the cutest thing I've ever seen. And today before his nap, he was like, where Henry's new backpack?
Kate: Oh my God, come on.
Doree: I put in your closet. And he wanted to take it out and like roll around, roll it around. And then he wanted to leave it out in his room. So he like, could look at it. <laugh> to, I love that. I was like, I, I was like, I think he's really gonna, I think this is gonna be a, a really good thing for him. And like he's and so, you know, I'm, I'm trying to like find those moments.
Kate: Yeah. Good for you.
Doree: Thank you. You're being
Kate: So much parent and also caring for yourself. I think those are admirable things. <laugh>
Doree: And then, you know, I guess my intention for this week is, uh, to kind of figure out what I wanna do for the, for the rest of the month, since we're not gonna be recording.
Kate: Um, so weird, isn't it so weird?
Doree: Yeah. Like I feel like I now suddenly have these like blocks of free time. So I ne I feel like I don't wanna waste them. Um, so I'm gonna try and kind of think of some things that I can do. So that's my intention for this week.
Kate: What about you, Keith? I've I've been, uh, making doctor's appointments to fill in this. Oh, that's smart sense of podcast recording. Oh yes. That's smart. You know what? I'm getting a retainer. I'll tell you all about it. When I'm back from VA getting a retainer. I know speaking of sexy, baby, my intention previously was to wean myself off of melatonin and I am really happy to report that it's working. I have be, I've become very reliant on a specific supplement called good day chocolate calm. Part of it is cuz it's chocolate and it's delicious to have a treat before bed, but you know, it's this magnesium fanning came meal supplement to help you relax or sleep. Okay. And it was giving me the wildest dreams, like just stressing me out beyond belief to the point where my sleep didn't even feel relaxing, but it was helping me fall asleep. Oh. So
Doree: I've taken a,
Kate: Okay. I've taken a break from all like sleep supplements for the moment and I'm doing okay. Which is really encouraging for me.
Doree: Mm.
Kate: So that, that feels like it TW a bit of a success.
Doree: Okay. I'm excited for you.
Kate: Thank you. And you know, my intention for this week is, um, to go on another hike. Ooh. I took myself on a yeah. I took myself on a hike a few days ago by myself. I didn't bring my dogs. I didn't go with anyone else. I didn't wear my headphones. I just wanted to be in nature and be with my mind and just kind of process things going on in the world. And it was really soothing. Oh, that's and also invigorating, you know, getting to like work up a sweat and work up your heart rate and take breaks when you want. Not for the pressure of like somebody waiting for you. So I am without putting pressure on myself for like any sort of like goal, like I'm gonna hike every mountain. This is what I tend to do where it's like, I go on one hike and then I'm like, what have I hiked every peak in California story. That is really where I go with these sound of music. Right. That sound of music that sounded music. Yes.
Doree: Every <laugh>.
Kate: So I'm gonna try to take myself on one more hike this week.
Doree: Oh, that's so nice.
Kate: Yeah. That's it
Doree: Well actionable. Doable.
Kate: I hope so. I love it. I hope so. It gets hot here. Yeah. So you gotta go like at 6:00 AM, but otherwise yes,
Doree: Yes, yes, yes. That is the one thing that you need to be mindful of. <laugh>
Kate: Overheating.
Doree: Um, Kate, this has been delightful.
Kate: It has, it has Doree and a friendly reminder that forever 35 is hosted and produced by do Shrier and Kate Spencer it's produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sami Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast.
Doree: Bye.
Kate: Bye.